Open 96 -- Carbon-14 (Game over) before 703

[popsofctown]

Good unvote Kublai... it irritates me when absent people have a random vote sitting that people can use to tip a lynch.

Last game i used a calculator to random vote, but that didn't go over so well. So i'm going to use my random vote to punish people who have avatars i don't like.

Crap yours are all good.

Vote: Ortolan

Get an avatar scum.

[popsofctown]

StrangerCoug, you aren't making sense here. If you know this Natirasha has a general anti-town meta, then random anti-town things shouldn't matter so much. It's not like: he was SK last game with an anti-town meta. Because he has an anti-town meta, reverse gambler's fallacy applies and he's probably scum in two successive games.

It sounds like you're ticked that he wrecked your last game by claiming and now you're punishing him for the stuff he always does.

Or maybe you're scum. That is the first of two times in the first page you've directed vague suspicion at someone for almost no reason. (post 10)

FoS: StrangerCoug

@ortolan: I'm waiting on that avatar....

[popsofctown]

I thought KK meant he was new here as in, he doesn't know anyone in this room's metas. Which made plenty of sense to me, he was trying to ascertain to what extent the vote was serious... more later

[popsofctown]

sorry that my last post there was a fragment, i was pressed for time.

As KK has now said, it's pretty evident that he had a legit reason for asking a question like that, and i think it's suspicious how much StrangerCoug is construing everything in the room to be something guilty, everything. The FoS seemed excessive to me

before

i knew anything about Natirasha's meta... i mean come on, how does a self vote in the random phase fit in to some scum players master plan? Is Natirasha trying to mindgame us into thinking he's

not

the cult recruiter Coug? That'd be quite a trick.

I have a strategy, and it involves hunting scum. Random voting has to end sometime, and I say it's perfectly acceptable to make two cases so soon. We know there are two mafia, and even though the chances of me being right about you and Natirasha are very low, that doesn't deprive me the right to go after you both.

a. Sure you have the right to make two cases so soon. No one has a right to make crappy cases at any point in the game though, and your cases are pretty crappy.
b. Some of the wording creeps me out here, and is pretty scummy. "even though the chances of me being right about you two being scum is low, that doesn't deprive me of the right to arrange mislynches" That's what it sounds like to me, and you seem more concerned about getting a free pass for voting on nothing than you seem concerned about lynching scum, correctly.


Yet another scummy thing you've done is ignore my earlier FoS vote instead of addressing it. Do you want to let that dry up and go away so you don't have to possibly say something scummy in defending yourself?

I guess it'll take some voting for you to answer to anything.

Vote: StrangerCoug

[popsofctown]

EBWOP,

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

[popsofctown]

I wasn't contesting the unlikely hood of both of them being scum. I was pointing out how bizarre it is for you to acknowledge that 3ish% chance they are scum and then start harping on your own "right" to vote people who are probably innocent. You see how that's scummish?


It'd be nice if you said at least a word after someone gives you an FoS. If you are, in fact, not scum, it's your job to explain to your accusers why you aren't scum, we don't get any closer to winning if we mislynch you because you wouldn't answer to anything. And you can't say that there was absolutely nothing you could comment on the matter, because you just said something now you could have said then, that you got a lot of rap for self-voting in another game.

[popsofctown]

EBWOP: "to acknowledge there's only a 3ish% chance they are scum"

[popsofctown]

Let's get at the spirit of the rule instead of the letter Xtoxm. You haven't made a meaningful post this game. Are you lurking? Are you scum? Do you have somewhere you want to put suspicion or vote?

[popsofctown]

He's in the hotseat with me now, he's made no meaningful posts by page 3 and to me "mandatory post to answer prod" is active lurking. Maybe he sincerely lacks time to post more than that, but would he /in the game if he wasn't going to have even 10 minutes at some point in the next week to make a meaningful post?

I can't really FoS or vote him yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

StrangerCoug needs to get in here and defend himself. He's definitely suspicious enough for a deadline lynch.

[popsofctown]

You just said a second ago that you don't care about meta. Now you are defending yourself with your own meta. ????!?!!?!!!!

[popsofctown]

SC's aggression is not reason to vote for him. Spreading suspicion around is what we're

supposed

to do, after all. His original case against KK; however, is scummy.

Let's get some semantics down, i think we are arguing about whether the Ferrari is "fast" or "speedy".

Kublai Khan said that he's being too aggressive in reference to SC pouncing on Kublai Khan. You agree that the case against Kublai Khan is not strong and is scummy. KK said too aggressive and meant, "pouncing on evidence that isn't really evidence". You think SC is suspicious because he is "pouncing on evidence that isn't really evidence." You two agree.


SC is sort of talking past the tough accusation again, that his suspicions on KK are unfounded. Instead, he grabbed the word aggression and defended his "right" to have an aggressive playstyle, which he can get us to agree to, i think we all agree an aggressive playstyle is not scummy.

I'm still pretty that he defended himself with his meta after telling everyone that he didn't give a **** about people's meta and refusing to retract any suspicion on Natirasha in light of the fact he self-votes

every game

...... and now maybe we see why he does, don't we?

[popsofctown]

the last "he" being Natirasha

[popsofctown]

Natirasha, in general, self-votes at the beginning of every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.
StrangerCoug, in general, is aggressive every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.


DO YOU SEE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARD YET?

[popsofctown]

Again, why'd you take this game if you can't play it? I don't think you're inconvenienced, I think not talking is your strategy.

Although SC has said it's very unlikely to catch both scum on day 1, I'm inclined to think Xtoxm and SC are a scum pair. At the time Xtoxm made "mandatory prod post", most people were putting pressure on SC. He could read the thread and say what he thinks on SC very quickly, but he didn't. I think he was trying to avoid commentation on SC, so he neither has to bus his teammate to the gallows nor say he doesn't have suspicions about SC, which we would look back upon harshly if SC flipped scum.

In support of this theory, look how SC defended Xtoxm in post 66. He asks if KK has checked Xtoxm's post history, whichout even bothering to click twice and do some himself. He even went at length. He looks like he's more interesteed in defending Xtoxm than actually ascertaining whether Xtoxm needs defending.

The fact he ceded the point is irrelevant (buddy nor not), he was faced with facts by KK that required a fold either way.

[popsofctown]

That's the way it sounded to me... that would be extremely unsportsmanlike.
So, wow, we win?

[popsofctown]

It could also be interpreted as "[This is quite a]Good game".. maybe?
Xtoxm and KK both look pretty bad. At this point, by my reckoning, one or both of them is a scum. If they are both scum, it's pretty moot which one gets lynched first, i think the possible connection i suggested would at least be enough to warrant D2 pressure, and that pressure would probably confirm or deny the connection. And there's always the seer/cop who could investigate them.

So, i/we, we only including other people who are suspicious of SC and xtoxm, need to determine which one is more independently suspicious, preferably before the deadline. It's sort of an apple and orange thing to me right now, SC has said and done things that bring about suspicion, while Xtoxm is lurking, and not really defending his lurking in a satisfactory manner.

I'm gonna decide which one deserves my vote best as close to the deadline as possible. I'm gonna leave my vote on SC though, because I'm sick, and i don't know if i'll get sicker or weller and i'd hate for there to be a lack of votes at deadline.

Crazy, are you really suspicious of ortolan or was that sarcasm?

Ortolan. Get an avatar.

[popsofctown]

You know, I did a reread of this game over the course of the night, and Kublai Khan is actually not as scummy as I thought. A couple of posts by popsofctown, however, stuck out to me:

I can't really FoS or vote him yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

This is a reference to Xtoxm, which we know flipped cop. You express suspicions of him later, but you left your vote on me, which reeks of distancing from a mislynch as you never voted him.

Another one:

Xtoxm and KK both look pretty bad. At this point, by my reckoning, one or both of them is a scum.

It's Day 1 and you're already this certain about scum? This is tunnel vision, and you were voting for neither player when you made that statement. In fact, other than your random vote on ortolan, I'm the only person you've voted all day.

Let's get down to business here, pops: I am the seer, I investigated you for the above posts, and you came up werewolf. Therefore,

Vote: popsofctown

Wow, wow wow. Wow. This a really gutsy move from SC and whoever the heck his scumpartner is. I'm not werewolf, which means StrangerCoug is not seer, which means one of you guys, though not me, is seer. There's going to be a counterclaim and SC is going to fight it, but hopefully you guys have some sense and he loses.

Do you guys really buy this? His claim itself seems so insincere. "Here is two things that look suspicious. Oh and by the way I investigated you."
He doesn't even give reasons he stopped thinking KK was suspicious, it's as if whatever KK did that was suspicious dried up and blew away.

Everyone, please read D1. SC reeks, all day, of scumminess. This is clearly a lunge the scum are making for instant victory.

You quote me as saying "Xtoxm and KK both look pretty bad." I did say that, but it was a typo. I meant to say "Xtoxm and SC both look pretty bad." If you did any more than a scumish superficial reading of the thread, you would have figured out it was a typo, since I hadn't said anything about KK being suspicious at all before or after, and the post just before i put you and Xtoxm as my most suspicious suspects:

Again, why'd you take this game if you can't play it? I don't think you're inconvenienced, I think not talking is your strategy.

Although SC has said it's very unlikely to catch both scum on day 1, I'm inclined to think Xtoxm and SC are a scum pair. At the time Xtoxm made "mandatory prod post", most people were putting pressure on SC. He could read the thread and say what he thinks on SC very quickly, but he didn't. I think he was trying to avoid commentation on SC, so he neither has to bus his teammate to the gallows nor say he doesn't have suspicions about SC, which we would look back upon harshly if SC flipped scum.

In support of this theory, look how SC defended Xtoxm in post 66. He asks if KK has checked Xtoxm's post history, whichout even bothering to click twice and do some himself. He even went at length. He looks like he's more interesteed in defending Xtoxm than actually ascertaining whether Xtoxm needs defending.

The fact he ceded the point is irrelevant (buddy nor not), he was faced with facts by KK that required a fold either way.

I was wrong about one of you two, but apparently I was right about one of you.

Vote: StrangerCoug

A note to the seer, please claim. If we mislynch now we lose, that's why StrangerCoug is going out on a limb and trying to pull this crap. We're smarter than that. Aren't we? Please say we are....

[popsofctown]

sorry.... what with a fake seer accusing me of being scum i got really pissed.


I am 100% sure that SC is scum right now, but KK is right, we should get some discussion and find the other scum if we can.

Unvote

[popsofctown]

Actually, no, I'm really not werewolf, really.

KK is the only person who didn't explicitly say whether he is seer. I'm guessing KK wanted to play it slow for some reason, but he must be the seer.

Kublai Khan. You MUST CLAIM NOW. I'm at L-1 and if i get 1 more vote we instantly lose!

[popsofctown]

Is that a lynch?

[popsofctown]

funny, i always seem to have posts at 9:21 pm mafiascum time

[popsofctown]

I'm friggin pissed off. StrangerCoug, your teammate was dead but you still had a responsibility. You play to your win condition until the game is OVER. I'm pretty sure i told you that in nighttalk. If the game was over, Tinvision would have said so.

It'd be one thing to quit if you didn't have a teammate, but you quit on yourself and you quit on me, without my consultation. I spent lots of energy in this game, and i don't appreciate you playing to lose at the end.

[popsofctown]

It was a brilliant gambit, the town actually failed into success. If KK was anything like a normal player, he would have counterclaimed, making the choice of lynch KK or SC rather than popsofctown or not. I thought SC would lose the seerclaim battle (he would have. If there was a seerclaim battle) and have been lynched. Then, upon realizing that he's actually goon, the town would be less likely to lynch me because that would have been such an extreme gambit.

I'm definitely sure I'm pissed at my teammate quitting at the end of the game.

I'm not sure how i feel about the town failing to get all it's claiming done before D2 was over, then winning because of that. I probably need to dig down and find some sportsmanship about that, there must be some explanation of how "may the best man win" was fulfilled, or so i would hope.

[popsofctown]

there is more than one way SC could have gone for a win.

"I'm vanilla townie, but i realized D2 was LyLo and thought that I was almost certainly going to be lynched next, which would make us lose. I thought a seer claim was the only way to keep myself from getting lynched"

Or, considering the town was clearly so disorganized they couldn't even get their claims out before lynches.

"Well Nat, it's obvious that Crazy's seer claim was BS. Let's lynch.

Vote: Crazy

"

You play to win. You don't play to lose.

The mod calls the game when it's over. The mod hadn't called the game, because it wasn't over.
I'm still very very pissed, not at the setup farside, at my quitter partner.

[popsofctown]

There is no such thing as a cheap win... maybe it's because you don't come from a fighting-game background that this isn't credo to you. But if it's not illegal, it's legal, and you should use it to win. Other wise any competition turns into "he with the least honor wins"