Micro 1065 Coalition Game Over!

[Lucian]

So, what I'm hearing is...

HEAL: Ydrasse
HEAL: Dannflor

[Lucian]

HEAL: Una, Menalque, unwnd, Greetings, Vanderscamp

Are these random?

[Lucian]

HEAL: Una, Menalque, unwnd, Greetings, Vanderscamp

Are these random?

Did you not notice these matched mine?

It was about 3 and a half hours between me reading your heals and reading Junko's. Not to mention that I assumed that your heals are random, while Junko's might not have been.

[Lucian]

I also noticed that! seems weird that he read mine but not yours

I... did read both. I just didn't remember what the first one was and didn't bother to check.

Even if I hadn't read yours, why is that worth calling out?

[Lucian]

HEAL: Una, Menalque, unwnd, Greetings, Vanderscamp

Are these random?

Did you not notice these matched mine?

It was about 3 and a half hours between me reading your heals and reading Junko's. Not to mention that I assumed that your heals are random, while Junko's might not have been.

That is mean. Why would you assume I have no strategy?

Because I don't think you can have an actual coalition pick at post 11, unless you are informed? Though I'm listening if you wanna convince me otherwise.

I didn't mean to be mean. x_x

[Lucian]

You're the one who made the claim. Why are you deflecting?

[Lucian]

You checked the game twice in four hours! Are you excited to play?

Kind of, yeah!

HURT: all
HEAL: Dannflor, Una, unwnd

I think Una is town because of the way she is approaching my slot. I think her reasons for townreading me are not great,

but

I think they come from town because a) they show an early wish to solve and encourage me to play and interact, b) she seems unafraid of me thinking she's pocketing me for having a townread on me for weak things.

There's not much to Dannflor yet, but I liked him calling out Junko in 32 as I also found their posting to be nervous.

unwnd is more of a gut feeling, but I think they come off better in the argument with Junko on page 4, and I also liked 76, as that's something I also thought at the time.

I'm suspicious of Junko because I feel like their deflections are weird and, for as many posts that they have, I don't get the honest vibe of solving the game from any of them.

Slightly suspicious of Greeting because the first line in 66 reads LAMIST.

Everyone else did not leave an impression on me yet.

[Lucian]

Is there a reason why you're consistently trying to piss me off?

[Lucian]

I'm not planning on locking Dannflor in as town forerver for that single post. However, I do think it shows an amount of seriousness and willingness to solve, which I'm okay giving an early townread for.

My issue with Junko isn't just that she's joking around, I don't care about that. But her responses are actively trying to block people from actually, y'know, solving and playing the game, most notably her responses towards me. And for as many posts that she has, none of them give me the feeling of her actually attempting to solve the game or having reasons for doing things she's doing.

Can she be town despite this? Yes, obviously. But the nature of this setup is that townies need to show themselves as town if we are planning to win via the coalition. So her play is actively making that goal harder, which means she deserves pressure. Either into being actually towny, or into getting left out.

[Lucian]

HEAL: una, junkochan

Why is Junko towny to you?

[Lucian]

the devil may care approach isn't going to win favors

And yet it is winning favors.

[Lucian]

The second sentence of 56 probably is a townie. Mafia like to be right. He would still want to talk about it as mafia but to argue

It is a small thing

I've said this type of stuff as scum in games before, looking approachable and ready to cooperate is often what gets you easy towncred.

HURT: Lucian

Do you think being approachable is actually

scummy

? Why did you put me into the coalition for in the first place?

I'm not planning on locking Dannflor in as town forerver for that single post. However, I do think it shows an amount of seriousness and willingness to solve, which I'm okay giving an early townread for.

Which post(s) from

Dannflor

's ISO make him town in your opinion?

I explained that earlier - it was 32 at the time.

[Lucian]

greeting and lucian seem like mafia

Why the second one?

[Lucian]

I read both junko and Lucian as town but for diff reasons, unwnd too I guess but I feel less good about that

Can I get a why on these?

greeting and lucian seem like mafia

Why the second one?

not putting yourself in your coalition when you are Trying to Town is suspicious

...This is going to be embarrassing, but while I was typing that post, I forgot that I can include myself in my coalition. I think due to being distracted IRL and focusing on my reads.

Just want to share how many times I stared at this message

The tacked on 'unless you are informed' always reads like UNLESS YOU ARE INFORMED to exaggerated effect in my mind. Just reeks of guilty conscience with how point blank it is

I was illustrating the one scenario where someone's very early coalition can be a serious pick, i.e. if they already know everyone's alignment. Why is it scummy to you?

[Lucian]

I think I've cooled off on my Junko scumread, though I am still not finding that slot any easier to parse, if that makes sense.

Greeting seems even worse, looking back. He healed me at a time when I had already made 56, so obviously he didn't think it was scummy. Then unhealed me because I did something that he as scum does, but... it doesn't really track why is that suddenly scummy from me, why is he projecting onto me, OR why something like that can't come from town!me.

I really like that Una noticed that. Pretty strongly leaning town there currently.

[Lucian]

I think due to being distracted IRL and focusing on my reads.

This doesn't make any sense. Are you mafia?

No? Why would it not make sense?

[Lucian]

And focusing on one of those at the time but not the other makes me mafia because...?

[Lucian]

And focusing on one of those at the time but not the other makes me mafia because...?

Everyone is focused on reads. It is strange to focus more on reads than usual. It is almost the entire game.
It is common to focus on alliances or camouflages more than usual as mafia so maybe you substituted.

I still genuinely don't understand why this is a problem. I wanted to make a post where I would outline my reads. After more-or-less planning that post out in my head, I figured I should probably also heal the people I'm townreading. I was not thinking about the "read" of my own slot, because I know my own alignment.

[Lucian]

What's so towny about that post?

Have you considered reading 95 instead of making me repeat myself?

[Lucian]

@Dannflor, do you have any other thoughts on my alignment besides the fact I didn't heal myself? And how did that thought progress for you by now?

[Lucian]

Still thinking Greeting is scum. 210 does not make any sense as a reason to townread Dannflor when you consider the nature of this setup - scum need to be closer to the top right now, not just have someone else be at the bottom - and the fact that Menalque dropped in advocating for Dannflor to not be in the coalition. Which, if Menalque is town and Dannflor is scum, is a problem if people start listening to him.

I don't think this makes Dannflor scum, I am currently skeptical of Menalque myself. But it does make me think Greeting is scum more. And things posts like 203 and 205 make it look like he's trying to really make sure that we know he is really thinking about this game and changing his reads.

[Lucian]

I

think

, if I had to pick a coalition right now, it would be me, Una, Menalque, Dannflor, and Junko.

HEAL: Dannflor, Junko, Lucian, Menalque, Una

I originally wasn't planning to even placeholder-heal this yet, but I dislike not having my vote in play properly. So I'll heal it with an asterisk that it's very much a subject to change.

Ironically enough, I've gotten to a kind-of-townread on Junko for the same reasons I didn't like her at first.

Menalque I don't townread strongly, but I did see some townie pings in his posting, and I think he's a better pick than someone like Vanders currently. I want to speak to both him and Dannflor before I commit to their votes, though.

I'm starting to feel like Ydrasse's play this game is more engineered to get people to like her, rather than to actually solve.

[Lucian]

I am not discouraged! I've skimmed the case and I have responses which I'll type up shorty. I don't love getting into wall wars, but you asked for feedback, so...

Lucian where did unwnd go in your coalition

He didn't go anywhere. Just, at the time of making my most recent coalition, I realized I have better reasons to include other people in than him. Something about his approach to my slot also pings me the wrong way, but I'm not yet consciously aware what exactly, so I didn't feel like it's worth including.

[Lucian]

so what is your read on unwnd right now? I'm also not really sure what you mean by his approach to your slot, he hasn't really interacted with you much tbh

A weird null? And yes, I know he hasn't interacted with me much, that's part of the problem - he suddenly dropped me as his #1 scumread, when I did not get that vibe from him before, and I'm struggling to see why he thinks so or how he arrived to that conclusion. It's... it feels to be bad-faith, but it's also in a moment where it doesn't greatly benefit scum to drop weird unexplained reads on my slot. It feels opportunistic, because it's not unpopular, but it's also not

necessary

for scum-him to do?

[Lucian]

When you make a post like 95, I get the sense that you made it in order to show that you are thinking about the game, but I don't get the sense you actually care about what thoughts are in it. If you say something like "her reasons for townreading me are not great," I don't understand why that wasn't something you prodded Una on before you made such a post town reading her for that.

This is not necessarily

wrong

- I do think it's important for town to show that they're town in this setup. But I disagree with your characterization of my read of Una. I read her reasoning, I concluded it's not valid, but it's also not something I expect to see from scum. What do you imagine I would prod her about it anyway? My mind about it was made up.

When you make posts like 101 or 212, it doesn't read like you're asking questions or continuing a line of discussion in order to discern alignment, it feels like you are continuing a line of discussion in order to argue about it.

For those two quotes - I disagree with the first, and the second one was never meant to be a tool for me to discern Una's alignment? It was meant to show her my thought process; I'm not sure why you're including it here.

Asking Menalque why in 184 or me about my read on you in 214 feels hollow when you vote us for your coalition anyway and ostensibly town read us already.

I know how to use hurt tags. What's the difference between if I vote you in for the coalition right now or if I wait for answers? Will Menalque's answers make a difference in my read of him? Maybe not. Maybe we'll start a convo and I'll end up reading him one way or another.

I am also skeptical of your motivation for posting 215 after you had already made 186. There is a disproportionate amount of your words devoted to scum reading Greeting versus town reading other slots.

Because it's one of the reads I have that I actually feel good about, and I'm trying to cling onto something to hopefully get me to produce better reads down the line.

Not gonna bother with the Greeting stuff because I agree he's scummy.

Overall, I think your case is

fine

. I myself recognize that I'm having more trouble this game than I was having last game. It's also part of the reason why some of my stuff seems "performative" I think; my best reads are when I can properly interact with people, but it seems to me that people this game have either already decided I'm scum, or just spending time interacting with the people they're familiar with, which I cannot properly read or interact with at all. So I'm hoping that I actually can enter the game properly, but I keep falling flat, kind of.

It's unfortunate that I can't prove anything of this, but whatever. I'm hoping that I can show it to be true.

[Lucian]

so what is your read on unwnd right now? I'm also not really sure what you mean by his approach to your slot, he hasn't really interacted with you much tbh

A weird null? And yes, I know he hasn't interacted with me much, that's part of the problem - he suddenly dropped me as his #1 scumread, when I did not get that vibe from him before, and I'm struggling to see why he thinks so or how he arrived to that conclusion. It's... it feels to be bad-faith, but it's also in a moment where it doesn't greatly benefit scum to drop weird unexplained reads on my slot. It feels opportunistic, because it's not unpopular, but it's also not

necessary

for scum-him to do?

why didn't you ask him about the read?

I mean, I

did

ask him about part of his reasoning for the scumread on me in 184, I didn't get a response...

[Lucian]

Do you want to become familiar to me Lucian

Sure.

[Lucian]

We had a conversation about Junko and both agreed that was she did was weird. OK. Why are we here now where he suddenly agrees with Junko being town. It's not that townies can't be influenced by those around them, but that read in particular felt quite strong even if early. The processing in which his thoughts formulate are sort of always keeping close to what everyone is doing instead of what he should be doing. This type of willingness to engage would be alright if he were offering some sort of perspective in the mix. He really hasn't and he continues to make observation without trying to reach conclusion.

I figured that her continuing doing nothing was slightly +town. And I was having enough weird-nullreads / scumreads / i-don't-trust-you reads that I figured it's more likely there's scum there

somewhere

dirtying the reads and she's just a silly townie.

I didn't bother explaining this because I didn't feel it's actually worth being explained. From what I gathered, people already agreed on her being town. It would be preaching to the choir.

[Lucian]

is there something about her solving that feels slimy to you?

It's not her solving that feels slimy, her solving just feels flat to me. 102 feels way too early (though I imagine a few would disagree) but it also feels... Like, it was barely page 5. Ydrasse bringing up the associate reads and what the theoretical partner of Junko would have to be doing just feels artificial. Because I feel like I asked a simple question and the response was more complex than it needed to be. It seems weird to me to think that there could possibly be someone universally townread already, bringing up that point feels like adding complexity to appear smart and solvy.

That turned into a wordsalad... The Una and Menalque takes are like, fine, I guess.

I just don't feel like her solving is kind of, going anywhere yet. And it feels like she's spending more time establishing the rapport between familiar players rather than make sure her solving actually goes somewhere.

[Lucian]

We had a conversation about Junko and both agreed that was she did was weird. OK. Why are we here now where he suddenly agrees with Junko being town. It's not that townies can't be influenced by those around them, but that read in particular felt quite strong even if early. The processing in which his thoughts formulate are sort of always keeping close to what everyone is doing instead of what he should be doing. This type of willingness to engage would be alright if he were offering some sort of perspective in the mix. He really hasn't and he continues to make observation without trying to reach conclusion.

I figured that her continuing doing nothing was slightly +town. And I was having enough weird-nullreads / scumreads / i-don't-trust-you reads that I figured it's more likely there's scum there

somewhere

dirtying the reads and she's just a silly townie.

I didn't bother explaining this because I didn't feel it's actually worth being explained. From what I gathered, people already agreed on her being town. It would be preaching to the choir.

I want to hear it

That small exchange with Junko was probably the most..expressive? I've seen from you. It was telling to me because it didn't seem orchestrated, like you really were getting pissed off at Junko. I think if you two were scum together it'd be choreographed better

I explained it above.

For what it's worth, I was getting genuinely pissed at Junko, because I cannot explain to you how angry and frustrated I get when someone is ignoring me and making fun of me the way she was doing it. But my choice at the time was to either step back or start acting toxic, and I chose the former. I don't want to get my blood pressure up because of this game, but her first interaction with me did kind of set the stage of how I was feeling in the following attempts to interact with people.

[Lucian]

it's not that it's that I don't know how much I scum read Lucian anymore

:3

Not to be annoying or anything, but what is your thought process here currently?

Pedit: I wasn't doing AtE...

[Lucian]

I am trying to play a serious game of mafia here and you're talking about heart twinges!

[Lucian]

How stupid would I be if I now said that I was actually starting to slightly suspect Dannflor due to some parts of his wall on me seeming kind of divorced from the logic of the thread (e.g. him shoving my 212 under "doesn't feel like you're trying to discern alignemnt", yeah no shit) and I was expecting him to keep that scumread going, but him suddenly re-evaluating is making me ??? on my logic there?

I need to go to bed...

[Lucian]

Yes, I know; my point is that I started seeing a potential for scum-Dannflor, but I also had a prediction for scum-Dannflor, and it doesn't seem like that prediction is coming true, which means something about my thinking is OFF, but I don't know what because there are too many variables!

[Lucian]

I guess that post was also an implicit question for why did you shove my 212 under "not actually trying to sort alignment, but wanting to appear to do so" part of the wall?

[Lucian]

Because I don't want to be scumread because of a misunderstanding? Especially not by a person I'm townreading?

[Lucian]

unwnd, is there a reason why you seem to ignore my attempts to reach out to you and sort you, even after I basically said I'm annoyed you ignored me earlier, and after I said I'm struggling to play when people ignore me?

[Lucian]

I'm not saying you should be townreading me for my emotions, I think this is a gamestate where I would get frustrated regardless.

But I just don't really understand, I guess, why you scumread me. The only part I understand is the part I already feel like I explained. And it seems like there's more to it and I can't sort you properly or respond properly like this.

[Lucian]

There is something kind of funny about Dannflor scumreading me for trying to make my trajectory on every single player publicly known, but then unwnd scumreading me for not properly explaining and/or reaching conclusions about Junko.

Yes, I know there's more nuance to it. No, I don't care.

[Lucian]

Is it egoistical of me to scumread Vanders based on the fact that he seems to townread me and wants me in his coalition, but is doing virtually nothing to actually convince anyone of it, or at least engage with other people's scumreads of me?

[Lucian]

Hmm. 331 does make me feel better about unwnd. At least, I feel like I can understand where his scumread of me is coming from, and I think it makes sense. FWIW, I do agree that I'm aware of my own emotions and how I'm presenting them to the game.

There also

is

a point to my posts; if we're talking examples, the one I called out to Vanders. Which I know is easy to say - and for obvious reasons I can't say more now. And kind of sucks that my playstyle is getting me scumread this game. But I'll live.

[Lucian]

Not loving the fact that Menalque seemingly completely dipped after that one burst of posting.

[Lucian]

@Ydrasse, what's your current coalition of choice?

[Lucian]

Why?

[Lucian]

Well I cannot disagree more, both with that read and with that mindset, but it fits with the idea of town-you I have in mind, so like, okay.

[Lucian]

HEAL: Menalque, Una, unwnd, Vanderscamp, ydrasse

ok can we do this

we can swap me for menalque if you want

Swap Ydrasse and maybe Menalque for Junko and maybe you, and I can compromise there.

[Lucian]

Well I cannot disagree more, both with that read and with that mindset, but it fits with the idea of town-you I have in mind, so like, okay.

Can you elaborate on why you think this?
The second part, I agree the read/mindset is weird

Mostly that I don't see scum making up such a read. It feels like a read that they know basically everyone would disagree with, at least with its reasoning.

And I don't see why scum-her would be desperate to townread Menalque.

[Lucian]

Can the people who have Ydrasse in their coalitions explain to me why she's town?

[Lucian]

I feel like they just kinda, set up reads on each other without ever actually organically interacting

it's also interesting that lucian is unwnd's most developed read to the point where he has multiple paragraphs on lucian and almost nothing on anyone else

Do you genuinely believe that scum would intentionally play that way?

[Lucian]

I think it would have to be pretty intentional, since, in a general sense, scum is not very keen on interacting with buddies.

And the fact that you're now forming your second team with the basis of "they talk a lot about me", is uh, alarming?

[Lucian]

Because I'm not noticing any sort of thought on whether that reasoning actually makes sense to come from partners,

especially

since that is your second read of that nature.

Which makes it look like it's a read done for the sake of looking good, rather than actually solving...

Pedit: then it would be an intentional choice, yes?

[Lucian]

I'm not denying scum will probably want to create distance between each other in this setup.

I'm saying that I think it's wrong to assume that, because they know they need to create distance, they will intentionally forgo or forget to interact with townies.

I'm also saying that you are not thinking about that when making your Lucian/X scum predictions.

And I'm saying that a townie, who is genuinely thinking about the game, would think about that.

[Lucian]

Yeah, this wasn't as informative as I'd hoped it would be. Maybe slightly leaning +town on this because your reasoning is a bit more nuanced than I first thought?

[Lucian]

Mind addressing my 413 now?

[Lucian]

having had weird vibes around lucian and then ending up advocating for what is in essence the same coalition is giving alarm bells

What does this actually mean?

[Lucian]

I vaguely liked Ydrasse's thoughts in 436, it feels like a townie thought process. It's somewhat diminished because she originally walked back from it pretty quick.

As for Dannflor's thoughts on Vanders in 447... Big oof. I definitely do not want Vanders in the coalition now, barring some spectacular explanation from them. But they're not being that townie anyway, IMO, so...

[Lucian]

The only person to really solidfy a stance is ironically Lucian

Almost as if I'm town. (Yes, I know that doesn't make me town, shut up.)

I feel like what I've said about Lucian is what I want people to focus on and give attention to, with shitpost-esque content in the interrim

Why? This phase is about building a towncore, not scumreads.

Lucian you will vibe with me right

I tried to vibe with you, then you started scumreading me. Yes, I know what this implies, I don't care, I like vibing and I think it can be a good way to read people sometimes.

[Lucian]

Ydrasse
Lucian
Menalque
unwnd
Dannflor
Una
Greeting
JunkoChan
Vanderscamp

Right now, I definitely want Vanders out. Greeting should also probably be out. I'm assuming everyone and their grandma will veto me.

I think I need to see the town!Ydrasse case, because I am increasingly feeling less and less comfortable with Menalque being inside the coalition, but I still have paranoia on Ydrasse.

[Lucian]

The deadline is in 0 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes.

Oh no.

I will not be around for the last... 3-4 hours of this deadline. My preference is above, but we'll see how this IRL day progresses, I guess.

[Lucian]

What game are you talking about?

[Lucian]

mena playing a not great scum game in the only game I remember playing with mena

Please link this game.

[Lucian]

HEAL: Dannflor, Junkochan, Una, unwnd, Ydrasse

I absolutely do not love this, but time is running out. @Dannflor I am still expecting a Ydrasse town-case. Currently undecided between Vanders and Ydrasse, I think Vanders's explanation is plausible.

[Lucian]

Was the game on this website?

What do you mean by "n0 hit" and who was the unknown alignment?

[Lucian]

How funny would it be if we voted in a coalition of

Dannflor, Vanderscamp, Una, unwnd, Ydrasse

I don't even townread Ydrasse, but vague gut feelsies tell me she MIGHT be a better choice than Junko?

Maybe they should shut up, though. IDK.

[Lucian]

but last I played with him he was SO townie it was intense

?

[Lucian]

You were really obvtown in divide and conquer

Ah, I wasn't aware you played in D&C. It's going to be really funny if you're scum this game.

[Lucian]

Way different tempo than what he's doing in this one

Taking into account that in that game, I had a strong townread and a strong scumread almost right off the bat, and that I didn't have to wander through a bunch of fluff posted by people who know each other? No? Alright.

[Lucian]

HEAL: Dannflor, Una, unwnd, Vanderscamp, Ydrasse

Don't exactly love this, but I'm not sure if there is any coalition I

love

right now.

FMPOV, either the scumteam is 2 of the 3 lowest impact slots of Menalque/Greeting/Junko, or we're still stuck here. It's not impossible, I guess. I can't say I have high hopes for it, though.

[Lucian]

The only hesitance I'll give on my read of you (right now) Lucian is that you're not posting like you're about to lose

Have you yet considered that I might be town?

[Lucian]

Funnily enough, I now don't feel like Junko is posting like she's about to lose either.

Pedit: Junko, what are your reads again?

[Lucian]

Idk I think Lucian voting for a coalition with unwnd in it when there is another viable option is weird from his POV

Why would that be weird?

[Lucian]

Spoiler:

Hmm. 331 does make me feel better about unwnd. At least, I feel like I can understand where his scumread of me is coming from, and I think it makes sense. FWIW, I do agree that I'm aware of my own emotions and how I'm presenting them to the game.

There also

is

a point to my posts; if we're talking examples, the one I called out to Vanders. Which I know is easy to say - and for obvious reasons I can't say more now. And kind of sucks that my playstyle is getting me scumread this game. But I'll live.

Ydrasse
Lucian
Menalque
unwnd
Dannflor
Una
Greeting
JunkoChan
Vanderscamp

Right now, I definitely want Vanders out. Greeting should also probably be out. I'm assuming everyone and their grandma will veto me.

I think I need to see the town!Ydrasse case, because I am increasingly feeling less and less comfortable with Menalque being inside the coalition, but I still have paranoia on Ydrasse.

HEAL: Dannflor, Junkochan, Una, unwnd, Ydrasse

I absolutely do not love this, but time is running out. @Dannflor I am still expecting a Ydrasse town-case. Currently undecided between Vanders and Ydrasse, I think Vanders's explanation is plausible.

How funny would it be if we voted in a coalition of

Dannflor, Vanderscamp, Una, unwnd, Ydrasse

I don't even townread Ydrasse, but vague gut feelsies tell me she MIGHT be a better choice than Junko?

Maybe they should shut up, though. IDK.

HEAL: Dannflor, Una, unwnd, Vanderscamp, Ydrasse

Don't exactly love this, but I'm not sure if there is any coalition I

love

right now.

FMPOV, either the scumteam is 2 of the 3 lowest impact slots of Menalque/Greeting/Junko, or we're still stuck here. It's not impossible, I guess. I can't say I have high hopes for it, though.

Ah yes, look at me scumreading unwnd.

[Lucian]

Oh. Well okay then.

My post got eaten, but I guess it doesn't matter, haha.

GG, and thanks for modding!

[Lucian]

I also had a winning coalition, why are you so mean...

[Lucian]

It's part of the game, ho hard feelings! Glad I was able to see you-town despite your push.