Mini 2293: Death Note. Postgame!

[KawaiiKame]

I'm voting mala

there's nothing conftown about her, she just crumbed PR

that's my final solve, I could be wrong, but so is everyone so lol

The final final solve

[KawaiiKame]

Black is not a follower since she defended me when I'm not Kira, town has the most motivation to defend town, I don't see Black playing as Kira, the doubts in her reads, genuinely wanting to solve the game, everything in thought/action, I only see a town motivation behind her play

Vander feels the most dangerous as Kira, he has logical precision to question any argument, any thought, any line of thinking, he's defended no one and only pursued people, I feel Vander has the mind to be an aggressive Kira, questioning everyone/everything powering through the game as town, the only possibilities in my eyes is Kira/town, Vander feels dangerous as Kira since he's only behind Black in being town, Vander feels Black is top town, same with me, if Gimli was a follower Vander will be his Kira since Gimli defended Vander/Black as town, Vander also went into me with Gimli when I feigned being Kira, Kira/town has motivation to eliminate false Kira, Vander is in the best position to win as Kira being seen as town by everyone

Kokichi is the defensive Kira defending me as town while pursuing the Gimli/HPE/mala eliminations, 2/3 being threats to Kokichi, Idk how likely my own theory is since town has the most incentive defending town, town wants to eliminate who they see as Kira, this theory semi falls since we have yet to see anyone defend Kokichi when being pursued

HPE is not a follower, feels town but as Kira would possibly play like this, HPE wasn't pursued and I don't think HPE was defended heavily at any point despite Kokichi wanting to pursue HPE

Gimli as Kira is a no-go, most likely a follower of Vander if a follower, if town the solve in mala/std/lorne feels genuine, only one left out of this is meg, all 4 to be analyzed in depth soon

[KawaiiKame]

Kokichi is the defensive Kira defending me as town while pursuing the Gimli/HPE/mala eliminations, 2/3 being threats to Kokichi, Idk how likely my own theory is since town has the most incentive defending town, town wants to eliminate who they see as Kira, this theory semi falls since we have yet to see anyone defend Kokichi when being pursued

If Vander is kira, I agree that is dangerous, but I don't think he is at the moment.

Also, I literally cannot be Kira. Give up this read already.

I mean you can be, anyone can be, but it's unlikely as of now, I will
Who do you think is Kira atm?

[KawaiiKame]

Kokichi is the defensive Kira defending me as town while pursuing the Gimli/HPE/mala eliminations, 2/3 being threats to Kokichi, Idk how likely my own theory is since town has the most incentive defending town, town wants to eliminate who they see as Kira, this theory semi falls since we have yet to see anyone defend Kokichi when being pursued

If Vander is kira, I agree that is dangerous, but I don't think he is at the moment.

Also, I literally cannot be Kira. Give up this read already.

I mean you can be, anyone can be, but it's unlikely as of now, I will
Who do you think is Kira atm?

I'm not looking for Kira, I'm looking for scummy people. The reason this game this game is the way it is, is because people aren't treating it like a normal maf game, but keep looking for kira tells instead of scum tells.

You standing by scum is within Gimli/mala/HPE?

[KawaiiKame]

That's a great question and I think I would have to comb back over the thread to look for associatives. I've been under the impression Gimli is more likely to be a follower so I've been thinking more about who his Kira could be

my kira is vanderscamp obviously

Truth tell? I didn'r even see this when writing my Vander is Kira theory

[KawaiiKame]

That's a great question and I think I would have to comb back over the thread to look for associatives. I've been under the impression Gimli is more likely to be a follower so I've been thinking more about who his Kira could be

my kira is vanderscamp obviously

Truth tell? I didn't even see this when writing my Vander is Kira theory

EBW02P

[KawaiiKame]

We are on evens, I'm partial to a day 1 no lim here tbh.

It looks like this is going to happen...

[KawaiiKame]

ISO read done. Azu still feels VERY towny honestly. Don't super agree with some of her earlier posts but they're not really scummy and beyond that she gets very towny and stays that way.

I'm reading Azu's IS0, I'm getting the same town feeling as you, who else is town to you HPE?

[KawaiiKame]

It's plausible imo, I don't really think it's reality

What is reality?

[KawaiiKame]

We are on evens, I'm partial to a day 1 no lim here tbh.

It looks like this is going to happen...

No lim is honestly not the worst as Azu's said before considering it flips someone who is definitely town.

ISO read done. Azu still feels VERY towny honestly. Don't super agree with some of her earlier posts but they're not really scummy and beyond that she gets very towny and stays that way.

I'm reading Azu's IS0, I'm getting the same town feeling as you, who else is town to you HPE?

Black and Vanderscamp are my main townreads rn, with Kokichi being a lesser lean. Lorne this one previously called just a goofball townie but it's pretty sure he could be a goofball scummie too, so. That's just what he is regardless of alignment it thinks. A goofball.

You feel... kinda towny? You're a little confusing to get a read on honestly, kind of in the same camp as Gimli where you're teeter-tottering from one lean to the other constantly. You're probably in need of an ISO read too but its time for this one to do its whimsical activities instead of living in the thread.

No lim night kill town flip is pretty good, Idek if voting eliminations give flips, I'm feeling no, so it's not imperative we vote anyone at even as meg said since info isn't given in this

0nly way this makes sense is if town is certain we pursuing Kira/a follower, but we don't know who the follower is and the only way to know we kill Kira is if the game ends, I'm not seeing any ideal options to vote at this point

I'm with you with Black/Vander/Azu being top towns, I see you, me and Koki as towns, both mala/Gimli feel they solving the game though they colliding, the solving feels town, leaving std/lorne, std is hard to read and lorne's playstyle is nai, a follower exists within who I see as town by necessity, out of everyone I town read I see Vander being Kira as most likely, Kira could be mala/std though, lorne might be a follower Idek

[KawaiiKame]

Kokichi is the defensive Kira defending me as town while pursuing the Gimli/HPE/mala eliminations, 2/3 being threats to Kokichi, Idk how likely my own theory is since town has the most incentive defending town, town wants to eliminate who they see as Kira, this theory semi falls since we have yet to see anyone defend Kokichi when being pursued

If Vander is kira, I agree that is dangerous, but I don't think he is at the moment.

Also, I literally cannot be Kira. Give up this read already.

I mean you can be, anyone can be, but it's unlikely as of now, I will
Who do you think is Kira atm?

I'm not looking for Kira, I'm looking for scummy people. The reason this game this game is the way it is, is because people aren't treating it like a normal maf game, but keep looking for kira tells instead of scum tells.

You standing by scum is within Gimli/mala/HPE?

I don't even know anymore

[KawaiiKame]

I don't even know anymore

Do you know who town is?

[KawaiiKame]

No lim is honestly not the worst

I see you are also in favor of a 100 page day 2

0 ambition... let's make this a 100 page day 1

[KawaiiKame]

koki kira kills kawaii

kawaii kira kills koki

[KawaiiKame]

57 h...

[KawaiiKame]

Plenty of time

Time to solve

[KawaiiKame]

I feel like no elim would be not good. We are basically giving Kira an extra day

Then we eliminate Kira/follower, who do you feel is scum?

[KawaiiKame]

EBWOP: ehhh I guess you just asked if 3 people in particular are scum. Sorry kawaii I misread

You good, when I asked about the 3 Koki had no idea, wanted to see if Koki's mind changed

[KawaiiKame]

Also, are you really a new player?

Because if you are then you would become a lot more towny to me.

I am new to mafiascum

What about mafia in general?

I play off and on in debateart.com

[KawaiiKame]

EBWOP: ehhh I guess you just asked if 3 people in particular are scum. Sorry kawaii I misread

You good, when I asked about the 3 Koki had no idea, wanted to see if Koki's mind changed

In an hour and a half? XD

It was only 90 minutes?

[KawaiiKame]

EBWOP: ehhh I guess you just asked if 3 people in particular are scum. Sorry kawaii I misread

You good, when I asked about the 3 Koki had no idea, wanted to see if Koki's mind changed

In an hour and a half? XD

I want to engage with who's in with me

[KawaiiKame]

I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

This feels like a stylistic thing, like mala can be genuinely pissed at being outed thinking Gimli is game throwing, I don't know how mala plays, feels like an upset town/caught scum in reaction, like yeah the game gets heated and mala may have been at her breaking point, if you feel mala's reaction is sai that's valid, what else do we have on mala that's sai?

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Malakittens

E-2 I think?

Who is defending Mala?
No one?

[KawaiiKame]

Looks like Malakittens is not scum

Mala Kira followers real quiet since the E-2 dropped

[KawaiiKame]

Looks like Malakittens is not scum

Yee the lack of anyone defending Mala outside of Mala indicates she's not Kira

[KawaiiKame]

"I literally can't be Kira"

Kokichi literally can be Kira

[KawaiiKame]

Looks like Malakittens is not scum

Mala Kira followers real quiet since the E-2 dropped

I'm not quiet though

You a follower?

[KawaiiKame]

Looks like Malakittens is not scum

Mala Kira followers real quiet since the E-2 dropped

I'm not quiet though

You a follower?

Yes, Mala is the Kira, the other follower is Gimli

Fake follower, you don't know who the 2nd follower is

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Malakittens

E-2 I think?

Who is defending Mala?
No one?

What are you talking about?

STD has been hard defending Mala for basically the entire game.

IS0ing std I'm seeing this,

it's dumb but these posts feel like they come from someone who knows they're town, not someone pretending to be town

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZzzzzZZZz

............

mala is townie

std constantly sees/defends mala as town, potentially mala Kira, follower std
I'm down to E-1 mala but waiting until she gets back to see who is the correct vote in her eyes

[KawaiiKame]

Like holy shit if we can remove a person or two from the equation entirely that would be splendid. Not to mention Detective getting to brainstorm which has a (assuming no shenanigans) 3 in 4 chance of catching a badman.

As in eliminating them?

[KawaiiKame]

Like holy shit if we can remove a person or two from the equation entirely that would be splendid. Not to mention Detective getting to brainstorm which has a (assuming no shenanigans) 3 in 4 chance of catching a badman.

As in eliminating them?

Are you asking about the first or second part of the question?

if we can remove a person or two from the equation entirely

[KawaiiKame]

STD has been hard defending Mala for basically the entire game.

Don't you have a tr on StD?

Wait does he?

[KawaiiKame]

I think a follower would avoid people rather than straight up town read them for what appears to be sketchy reasons

Who's been avoidant?

[KawaiiKame]

Elimination + Whoever Kira kills

Least elimination will help

[KawaiiKame]

It is kind of unreal how we still have 2 RL days before the gameday ends by deadline.

Do you want to continue until the deadline/eliminate someone b4?

[KawaiiKame]

Yeah, but what you're saying isn't true.
Also, I could be wrong on STD, and there are other people who could be followers to Mala.

I'm saying it's odd for you to put even more pressure on mala when you tr someone that has been defending her all game. I wonder what other role combination that could apply to?

I understand what you're saying, but if that's the combination then I think the game is already over.
I think there's some real chance Mala is Detective, not as likely as her being scum, but the way she's reacted to Gimli calling her detective is just so over the top obviously signalling "I'm the detective" that I don't think there's any point not addressing it, and I want to live in the worlds where we have a decent chance of winning. If I thought I was somehow the only person thinking this then I probably wouldn't push her despite thinking it's more likely scummy, but this clearly isn't the case.

Kira wins if we don't kill Kira without one day of killing the Detective right?

[KawaiiKame]

Yes

Do you feel it's worth the risk of getting a potential Mala Kira even if she may be the Detective?
Idk how much hope we will have of killing Kira within the day if Mala is the 2nd option

[KawaiiKame]

It is kind of unreal how we still have 2 RL days before the gameday ends by deadline.

Do you want to continue until the deadline/eliminate someone b4?

This one's said before that a night phase would probably help a lot, so its hoping we can end a bit sooner rather than hit deadline.

Hopefully we will, with the elimination/night kill we can solve

[KawaiiKame]

Yes

Do you feel it's worth the risk of getting a potential Mala Kira even if she may be the Detective?
Idk how much hope we will have of killing Kira within the day if Mala is the 2nd option

If no, I'm willing to be town's day elimination today
You won't win, but you won't lose, since I'm not Kira/the Detective

[KawaiiKame]

Yes

Do you feel it's worth the risk of getting a potential Mala Kira even if she may be the Detective?
Idk how much hope we will have of killing Kira within the day if Mala is the 2nd option

I think Mala is sufficiently scummy and her detective softing is so blatant that at this point if she doesn't vig someone I would just lim her.

I'm waiting on Mala to come back to speak b4 voting to E-1, forcing her to do the Day-vig kill, eliminating her if she fails to

[KawaiiKame]

std/mala are my favorite wagons

lets flip one of them

Down

[KawaiiKame]

"I literally can't be Kira"

Kokichi literally can be Kira

I agree.

Okay I can be Kira then

You finally see the Light

[KawaiiKame]

I believe in page 60

[KawaiiKame]

Page 60 is mine

[KawaiiKame]

These are the type of posts we need to get this to page 60

We made it to page 60

[KawaiiKame]

Follower Gimli with Vander as his Kira is looking likely

[KawaiiKame]

UNVOTE: Kokichi
VOTE: Vander

[KawaiiKame]

Claiming assistant is 100% a scum move though, y'all bad for taking it at face value

Not 100%, the chance exists that mala is the real assistant

I'm the assistant. I have been trying to bait the NK to keep my dect. safe, but it should have never come down to me claiming.

Mala why didn't you claim Detective if you wanted to keep your Detective safe?

UNVOTE: Vander

[KawaiiKame]

Claiming assistant is 100% a scum move though, y'all bad for taking it at face value

Not 100%, the chance exists that mala is the real assistant

I'm the assistant. I have been trying to bait the NK to keep my dect. safe, but it should have never come down to me claiming.

Mala why didn't you claim Detective if you wanted to keep your Detective safe?

You'd have to prove it, maybe that's why

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii that's a silly vote for now. Why not just wait?

I'll wait

[KawaiiKame]

Mala why didn't you claim Detective if you wanted to keep your Detective safe?

If mala fake claimed detective we would make her use the vig which she wouldn't be able to do. Then she just dies

Yeah I just realized this

[KawaiiKame]

Claiming assistant is 100% a scum move though, y'all bad for taking it at face value

It's possible mala is scum claiming assistant, it's possible mala is the assistant, until mala is ccd we have an unccd assistant so we need to assume mala is assistant until someone ccs

[KawaiiKame]

Town:
Mala-unccd assistant
Black- Top town read
Likely Town:
Kokichi/HPE/Azu
Neutral:
STD
Chaos:
Lorne
???:
Vander/Gimli

The only 2 I'm willing to vote who isn't Vander/Gimli is STD/Lorne, Lorne > STD

[KawaiiKame]

and now you're reading the game all upside down because you're scumreading people you'd definitely be townreading like fucking vanderscamp the towniest slot in the game

Explain how Vander is the towniest slot in the game

[KawaiiKame]

it's not toxic it's part of the game, i ATE as both town and scum all the time

The ATE is nai then?

[KawaiiKame]

lets kill that slot

Sigma
Hate to kill a replacing slot but it's the best option we have

[KawaiiKame]

lets kill that slot

Sigma
Hate to kill a replacing slot but it's the best option we have

What? Why is it the best option we have??

Who else is town going to eliminate?

[KawaiiKame]

Are we actually waiting for the mods to kill Vander IF Mala is Detective?

Yes

[KawaiiKame]

HPE/Vander followers with Kokichi Kira?

I have so many interactions to look at later

Is my Koki is Kira theory right?

[KawaiiKame]

Does anyone think HPE is Kira?

HPE's playstyle

fits perfectly

with how I see Kira playing...
I felt HPE felt too town to be Kira, this makes me anxious...
Why? Kira plays insanely town, think back to,
"Kira will play the best town game"

Y'know, this one could just... be town? Have you thought about that?

It's not a denial...

[KawaiiKame]

HPE is Kira
VOTE: HPE

[KawaiiKame]

Who sent the message? Whoever did should probably out themselves imo

HPE did
I targeted HPE with competency test
HPE has public announcement

[KawaiiKame]

Malakittens! Your sacrifice won't be in vain. I will capture Kira and execute them. I'll bring them to justice!

This is exactly what Kira said...

[KawaiiKame]

IMO Vander was playing super safe and careful.

He was?

[KawaiiKame]

IMO Vander was playing super safe and careful.

He was?

Do you disagree? He was on his best town behavior imo and everyone widely TR him for it. This strikes me as someone who is not going to leave a trail of crumbs to his Kira if he is ever investigated

Do you feel Vander accusing HPE of being a follower in 407 + 408 was a part of this strategy?

[KawaiiKame]

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

There was

no

defense of Kawaii. The post was only about the misunderstanding of what daykill meant, as this one thought you were referring to the detective's Condemn ability, not just voting someone off to eliminate them. The argument was vote don't condemn, because again, it misunderstood. Will you stop continuing the misunderstanding yourself now, please?

Oh, sorry.

Yeah that makes more sense now.

looking back im having trouble finding meaningful interactions between Vander and HPE.

im not sure. like i could see it as trying to cast shade onto HPE to see if it sticks. it doesn't make a lot of sense with an HPE!kira world

it could also be an attempt at distancing, the follower not trying to alert HPE that they're a follower, but trying to separate themselves and make it look like, in the event they got caught, that HPE wasn't kira.

I mean all this interaction proved is HPE is not a Follower, it didn't prove HPE is not Kira, Idk what the point of Vander accusing HPE being a follower only to back off when giving a reasonable explanation if the aim was to disprove HPE being Kira

Vander had systematic logic the whole game, coming to the most reasonable conclusions, so I see Vander accepting HPE's explanation as is at face value since it makes sense logically, I feel Vand may have let off HPE too easily since he pursued everyone else but it's hard to say he didn't back off HPE with logic alone

[KawaiiKame]

I’m going to bed

Part of the delay is the skill I have that’s a day ability
In addition to my day vig

Lmafo

I’m trying to see if my solve is right

My solve is

Hpe as Kira
Gimli & vander as followers

If we live/die by the Detective's solve we eliminate HPE
I'm willing to do this

[KawaiiKame]

I feel Vand may have let off HPE too easily since he pursued everyone else but it's hard to say he didn't back off HPE with logic alone

I mean can you really even say Vander backed off of HPE when he wasn't really on HPE to begin with? This follower comment is the only read he

ever

gave of HPE and he went nowhere with it

Vander's interaction/mentioning of HPE:
407
408
751
755
778

[KawaiiKame]

Vander had systematic logic the whole game, coming to the most reasonable conclusions, so I see Vander accepting HPE's explanation as is at face value since it makes sense logically, I feel Vand may have let off HPE too easily since he pursued everyone else but it's hard to say he didn't back off HPE with logic alone

oh wait a minute

do you think tossing a softball and having HPE knock it down for Vander to be like "you're right daddy kira" could have been a signal to HPE that Vander was a follower or is that too big brain

Vander's intelligent enough to do this yes
The possibility exists that Vander found HPE's explanation logically sound enough to back off tho

[KawaiiKame]

I mean if you are are follower you would want to defend gimli, and he would have no way to know it is you?
Are you not defending gimli's case on you?

It's plausible imo, I don't really think it's reality.

I am defending since I feel it's genuinely town, I want to eliminate who I see as town so I can find Kira, I don't see Gimli as Kira, I was down to eliminate Gimli at one point when he was pursuing me but my mind changed as his mind changed on me...
I see why you see why you think I might be Gimli's follower, yeah,
What do you really think is reality? I want to eliminate Kira

To be honest, I'm not sure
It's a tough game
Gut says it's a slot not getting high attention (Std/Mala/Vander/HPE) But I townread most of that list to some degree

Wow, you townread that list?
Because I don't think that's a very towny list of players at all and I'm in it.

So your scum is in Gimli/Kawaii/kokichi/black?

Vander doesn't think HPE is towny?

[KawaiiKame]

Vander had systematic logic the whole game, coming to the most reasonable conclusions, so I see Vander accepting HPE's explanation as is at face value since it makes sense logically, I feel Vand may have let off HPE too easily since he pursued everyone else but it's hard to say he didn't back off HPE with logic alone

oh wait a minute

do you think tossing a softball and having HPE knock it down for Vander to be like "you're right daddy kira" could have been a signal to HPE that Vander was a follower or is that too big brain

Vander's intelligent enough to do this yes
The possibility exists that Vander found HPE's explanation logically sound enough to back off tho

He

should've.

In general this interaction does not actually parse as a signal when Vanderscamp posted confusing terminology several people figured wrongly, this one posted a response that several people figured wrongly as well, and that naturally from there you'd clear the air.

I feel Vander was the main proponent of this you being a follower thing outside of Black/Kokichi potentially, I find it weird why Vander had so much to say about everyone else and so little to say to you, but Vander isn't here to explain why

[KawaiiKame]

Vander doesn't think HPE is towny?

Wait this is actually a good catch. Here he implies that he thinks HPE is scummy but later he leaves HPE off his list and says "everyone else is null"

Why would Vander not include HPE on his reads list as scummy if he scumread HPE?

Answer: HPE is Kira

It doesn't make sense that someone as logically sound as Vander have this logical inconsistency, unless he changed his mind...
Vander was so subtle in this he didn't explain a change in mindset...let alone acknowledge one

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii has a point here. Vander's 1094[post] implying that HPE is scummy, then his [post]1419 in which leaves HPE off his reads (saying those he left off are null) is pretty telling

All this points to is HPE being Kira by association if Vander is a Follower (I'm assuming he is)
What evidence do we have outside of Vander's logical hole/lack of interaction that HPE is Kira?

[KawaiiKame]

it can easily be std

This doesn't make any sense in reality and you know that.

huh? why is that?

Do your ass an ISO read and you'll see that StD and Vanderscamp agree like, once. Vanderscamp calls StD's reaction good and then most of their interactions are disagreements, Vander including StD in solve lists for Kira/Followers, and by the end during twilight just openly saying that he thinks StD is a Follower to a lying Kira!Mala. They have zero synergy, yet nor are they keeping distance.

Yeah Vander has 0 consistency with StD, flipping being town to being scum, you right in a follower engaging the most with Kira/actively distancing from Kira, flipping between engagement/distance makes 0 sense, especially when flipping reads

[KawaiiKame]

it could also be an attempt at distancing, the follower not trying to alert HPE that they're a follower, but trying to separate themselves and make it look like, in the event they got caught, that HPE wasn't kira.

This is how I feel. If we think Vander was signaling to his Kira all game then Kira is Gimli. If we think Vander tried to avoid his Kira all game then it's HPE

The whole case of HPE being Kira predicates on the assumption that Vander distances himself away from Kira

pedit: I'm with STD, it's even a town mindset to see why std as Kira when Vander is the follower doesn't make sense

I see HPE pursuing a 1 v 1 as Kira/town

If HPE is a follower then it does have an incentive to go against you to shield Kira but Gimli also has an incentive to pin the blame on someone else as Kira if he's Kira

[KawaiiKame]

i kinda think hpe would have tried to strike down any slot you suggested, you just happened to pick me

either you're kira and hpe is pure and it is correct and wants to lim you

or hpe is kira and is trying hard to lim you specifically because that's its plan for looking townie

im having trouble seeing other possibilities

we can both be town, one of us can be a follower and the other town. show me your work on how you can have this POE of two people as possible kira. can't be kokichi, can't be meg, can't be not_mafia?

It's possible that kokichi/meg/not_mafia is Kira, but how likely? Give me a Kira case on all 3 of them
I want you to give the 3 Kira cases on what indicates them to be Kira and I want HPE to give a P0E case as to why Kira is only you/HPE

[KawaiiKame]

Why Gimli is Kira:
Actions:
Pursued me in the opening when I feigned Kira, Kira/town both have an incentive to do this, Kira to eliminate pseudo-Kira, town to eliminate Kira, nai
Realized my innocence: Tow does this when town believes someone is town, Kira has incentive to look town/knows I am town, nai
Flipped between me/mala/Idk who else: You can flip/be indecisive as any alignment, nai

Forced Mala to out herself as the Detective

Kira has the ultimate objective of forcing the Detective to out in the day to kill her in the night to win in the next day if they escape elimination, Gimli has a behavioral pattern of catching onto details ("fading away and becoming a non-entity") pursuing that detail, seeking elimination. Gimli picked up that Mala was a PR like when he picked on I was acting like Kira, pursued Mala like he pursued me:
If Gimli is Kira then he pursued Mala, forced her to out as the Detective, caused the Detective to believe Gimli was not Kira, HPE is, killed the Detective in the night

Gimli was accused of game throwing when pursuing Mala close to Twilight yet didn't stop...

Association:
It's a well known fact Vander defended Gimli/pursued me + Mala with Gimli, since Vander was so townread it's reasonable to believe Vander used this perception as being town to Gimli so Gimli looked town in association, Vander was a big reason why I saw Gimli as town outside of Gimli seeing me as innocent eventually

[KawaiiKame]

Why HPE is Kira:
Actions:
Plays like how I imagine Kira would play as, specifically as a reasonable/logical town, playing all sides in fights, initially going against Kokichi who everyone was scumreading, nai, saying the deathkill should not be used on me, basically playing like a neutral party when defending itself/going against someone else, this is nai since it isn't hard proof of anything, HPE is just playing how I subjectively believe Kira will play when it's possible HPE is town and not Kira

Wants the twilight to end, could indicate potentially wanting to use the Death Note, Idk why HPE asked this but doesn't implicate HPE as Kira

Pursues Gimli as exclusively Kira making it a 1 v 1, this is nai since town has reason to eliminate Kira like this/Kira has reason to eliminate the most scummy town like this, not proof of anything

I want someone to go through HPE's IS0 to find an objectively Kira action that HPE did,

I'm failing to find anything except HPE playing like potentially top town like Kira would do but this can mean HPE is town

Association:
Vander distances himself from HPE heavily, assuming Vander plays like this it's highly likely this implicates HPE as Kira, but this is an unknown assumption

The Detective concludes HPE is Kira, doesn't explain this solve

[KawaiiKame]

Why HPE is Kira:
Actions:
Plays like how I imagine Kira would play as, specifically as a reasonable/logical town, playing all sides in fights, initially going against Kokichi who everyone was scumreading, nai, saying the deathkill should not be used on me, basically playing like a neutral party when defending itself/going against someone else, this is nai since it isn't hard proof of anything, HPE is just playing how I subjectively believe Kira will play when it's possible HPE is town and not Kira

Wants the twilight to end, could indicate potentially wanting to use the Death Note, Idk why HPE asked this but doesn't implicate HPE as Kira

Pursues Gimli as exclusively Kira making it a 1 v 1, this is nai since town has reason to eliminate Kira like this/Kira has reason to eliminate the most scummy town like this, not proof of anything

I want someone to go through HPE's IS0 to find an objectively Kira action that HPE did,

I'm failing to find anything except HPE playing like potentially top town like Kira would do but this can mean HPE is town

Association:
Vander distances himself from HPE heavily, assuming Vander plays like this it's highly likely this implicates HPE as Kira, but this is an unknown assumption

The Detective concludes HPE is Kira, doesn't explain this solve

The case of HPE feels weak if we take down the assumptions of Vander distancing Kira/The Detective is right in her solve
All I have is an emotional feeling that HPE is playing like Kira...
The scary thing is my emotions can be right, but they can be wrong
I wish Mala explained her solve as to why HPE is Kira...

[KawaiiKame]

You scumread me for having this thought, to keep options open..

Are you trying to scumcase me or what? I'm literally the only one here that can't be Kira so I have no clue why you are interacting with my thoughts and opinions so much

Yes, I think you're Kira

Why?

This will be the ultimate plot twist, Black is my top town...
Like the last game Black was my top town and she ended up being wolf, if Black is Kira in this then...
Black being wolf last game when I thought she was town last game means nothing, why do you think/feel Black is Kira in this game?

[KawaiiKame]

Mala also thought I was Kira. Maybe I am? Why can't I be Kira, Kawaii?

You can be Kira, do you not remember my Kira case against you?

[KawaiiKame]

Malakittens! Your sacrifice won't be in vain. I will capture Kira and execute them. I'll bring them to justice!

Quoting Kira exactly, potential sign you = Kira, I can see it

[KawaiiKame]

Why HPE is Kira:
Actions:
Plays like how I imagine Kira would play as, specifically as a reasonable/logical town, playing all sides in fights, initially going against Kokichi who everyone was scumreading, nai, saying the deathkill should not be used on me, basically playing like a neutral party when defending itself/going against someone else, this is nai since it isn't hard proof of anything, HPE is just playing how I subjectively believe Kira will play when it's possible HPE is town and not Kira

Wants the twilight to end, could indicate potentially wanting to use the Death Note, Idk why HPE asked this but doesn't implicate HPE as Kira

Pursues Gimli as exclusively Kira making it a 1 v 1, this is nai since town has reason to eliminate Kira like this/Kira has reason to eliminate the most scummy town like this, not proof of anything

I want someone to go through HPE's IS0 to find an objectively Kira action that HPE did,

I'm failing to find anything except HPE playing like potentially top town like Kira would do but this can mean HPE is town

Association:
Vander distances himself from HPE heavily, assuming Vander plays like this it's highly likely this implicates HPE as Kira, but this is an unknown assumption

The Detective concludes HPE is Kira, doesn't explain this solve

The case of HPE feels weak if we take down the assumptions of Vander distancing Kira/The Detective is right in her solve
All I have is an emotional feeling that HPE is playing like Kira...
The scary thing is my emotions can be right, but they can be wrong
I wish Mala explained her solve as to why HPE is Kira...

Well, she did!
Sorta.

HPE = Kira
Why? Gut

[KawaiiKame]

Why HPE is Kira:
Actions:
Plays like how I imagine Kira would play as, specifically as a reasonable/logical town, playing all sides in fights, initially going against Kokichi who everyone was scumreading, nai, saying the deathkill should not be used on me, basically playing like a neutral party when defending itself/going against someone else, this is nai since it isn't hard proof of anything, HPE is just playing how I subjectively believe Kira will play when it's possible HPE is town and not Kira

Wants the twilight to end, could indicate potentially wanting to use the Death Note, Idk why HPE asked this but doesn't implicate HPE as Kira

Pursues Gimli as exclusively Kira making it a 1 v 1, this is nai since town has reason to eliminate Kira like this/Kira has reason to eliminate the most scummy town like this, not proof of anything

I want someone to go through HPE's IS0 to find an objectively Kira action that HPE did,

I'm failing to find anything except HPE playing like potentially top town like Kira would do but this can mean HPE is town

Association:
Vander distances himself from HPE heavily, assuming Vander plays like this it's highly likely this implicates HPE as Kira, but this is an unknown assumption

The Detective concludes HPE is Kira, doesn't explain this solve

The case of HPE feels weak if we take down the assumptions of Vander distancing Kira/The Detective is right in her solve
All I have is an emotional feeling that HPE is playing like Kira...
The scary thing is my emotions can be right, but they can be wrong
I wish Mala explained her solve as to why HPE is Kira...

Well, she did!
Sorta.

HPE = Kira
Why? Gut

Is this you making a read or just summarizing Mala?

Both, like Mala that's all I have on you being Kira in the end

[KawaiiKame]

*snip*

Kawaii I really like these little breakdowns. Could you do one for StD?

Yes, lemme get to it

[KawaiiKame]

There's room for it I suppose Kawaii said they'd lay out a case for it no?

You can give "Why STD Is Kira" too, it will be good to have a perspective of someone who isn't me

[KawaiiKame]

There just isn't a lot of evidence to the contrary is the issue with them being on the list.

I feel I know what the evidence that STD is not Kira is, but it will help to list/give the evidence since Gimli believes STD to be Kira

[KawaiiKame]

im lock clearing kokichi post incoming

Are you sure about that? I could be Kira.

Kokichi really trying to convince me of Koki Kira

[KawaiiKame]

Wtf is happening, STD is claiming follower?

[KawaiiKame]

I legit don't understand why StD wouldn't just let himself be limmed and win the game

Yee it's within the Follower wincon to just coast to the end but who knows

[KawaiiKame]

Anyway, I was expecting a follower to claim follower/Kira today and cause chaos and make us overthink stuff.

You think that's STD's claim?

[KawaiiKame]

Do you still think StD is lying? Or do you think he is Gimli's follower?

If STD is a follower we need to IS0 all names to see Kira associations

[KawaiiKame]

Man this is a terrible position
If STD is Kira and he convinces us he is a Follower, Kira wins
If STD is a Follower and we think he is Kira, Kira wins

[KawaiiKame]

Kawaii - investigate thingy

Competency test (Skill investigation)

[KawaiiKame]

I'm the jail keeper, which is unfortunate. Kira used the death note

Who did you jail?

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: HPE

I'll vote who I think it is, that way if we lose it's not on me

Why do you think HPE is Kira?

[KawaiiKame]

why would he prove himself as not kira if he is a follower, koki? the follower doesn't want to take himself out of potential kira candidates!

also you must realise that the power that removed std's hammer, if it came from scum, came from kira's follower. kira would never trigger it! that's one less person that can be kira!

Do we know who used the skill?

[KawaiiKame]

i think in my mind as a follower, i would attempt to distance but do it lightly, i wouldn't try to signal because it's too risky, especially if i knew i'd likely have to fall on my sword for kira at some point. i think that makes HPE more likely than Gimli, with HPE hoping the anonymous note would stir the pot and push us towards gimli.

i think that's where my head's at atm but i want to think it through some more.

Vander had systematic logic the whole game, coming to the most reasonable conclusions, so I see Vander accepting HPE's explanation as is at face value since it makes sense logically, I feel Vand may have let off HPE too easily since he pursued everyone else but it's hard to say he didn't back off HPE with logic alone

oh wait a minute

do you think tossing a softball and having HPE knock it down for Vander to be like "you're right daddy kira" could have been a signal to HPE that Vander was a follower or is that too big brain

If HPE is Kira and STD is a follower why is STD soft implicating HPE as Kira?
Does STD lightly distance anyone? HPE is barely mentioned at all by STD

[KawaiiKame]

I'm failing to see any evidence that HPE is Kira,

We interrupting night news, because there's important message for us to show:

Spoiler: Public Announcement

"Hello, everyone. Person who rolled Public Announcement here. I just wanted to take the time to use it to give my thoughts here and now, in the event I die tonight for any reason. After reviewing Vanderscamp and Lorne's ISOs, I just want to say that I'm about 99% confident Gimli is Kira. Vanderscamp's odds of being a Follower are extremely high as I greatly doubt he would've counterclaimed Assistant like that as a Taskforce Member, and he physically could not be the actual Assistant as he would have known it was the Detective making the claim. So going off of that, it's clear to see that he very much was a 'yes man' to Gimli. Looking at his ISO, Gimli is mentioned 113 times in Ctrl+F, though some are of course from Gimli's actual posts, but either way most of these mentions are Vanderscamp gassing up Gimli: Sheeping or agreeing with his reads, vouching for his towniness, speaking of how he's not Kira/Scum or is a bad choice for elimination. In general, he was an extremely adamant defender of Gimli, and it surprises me that no one seems to particularly notice this when multiple slots raised eyebrows when StD came to Malakitten's defense, or when people came to KawaiiKame's defense. The same goes for Lorne Malvo, who despite being a mostly joking around not-so-serious slot, was unusually supportive of Gimli. Again, in a kind of shitposter way, but still it's there. As far as I'm aware, very few people have been as much of hardline supporters of Gimli as these two, let alone so consistently. Both have had minor disagreements with him, but the majority of their interactions with him are support and defense. Gimli has seemingly picked up on this, as he prominently defended Vanderscamp and tried to refute/discredit Malakittens during twilight after the Condemn. Lorne is the one out of place, as Gimli doesn't seem to do a lot in his favor, though obviously Kira is under no true obligation to protect his followers, and propping up Lorne as an elimination on a future day could be beneficial if he comes under pressure, a compromise vote or some such, or maybe an excuse to flip a switch and start townreading/towncasing him. Regardless, Vanderscamp's likelihood of being a Follower to Gimli is extremely high, and if you dislike the odds on the Malvo slot being one, then I offer an alternative: MegAzumarill. MegAzumarill, honestly on a second blush, is perhaps an even sturdier case for Follower, as they don't particularly say anything ill against Gimli, and similarly Gimli townreads them for a large percentage of the game outside of a single incident of suddenly doing a heel-face turn and wanting to eliminate MegAzumarill for a very short period of time (which he later said wasn't really a good play as is, and that he was just frustrated at the time) and some very minor incidents that can happen to even the best of genuine mutual townreads in any game. I have to personally admit that MegAzumarill is a townread of mine, but at the same time this analysis has given me a very good reason to also believe she is a deepwolfing Kira!Gimli follower. Anyway, I think I've rambled in hilarious and longwinded fashion enough now, so I will bid you all a good rest of the Night Phase now. And please do consider this carefully, too."

Feels genuinely solvey, same with the 1 v 1 with Gimli, HPE feels town

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: HPE

I'll vote who I think it is, that way if we lose it's not on me

Please make the case that HPE is Kira, I'm failing to see the evidence since the HPE case was built on association/emotion

[KawaiiKame]

you keep missing the obvious

The obvious being?

[KawaiiKame]

How likely is it that Koki is Kira?

[KawaiiKame]

How likely is it that Meg is Kira?
pedit: Yeah we can just end it now with the claimed scum

[KawaiiKame]

want me to check std/lorne interactions?

Yes I can check too
If Kira is N_M lmfao

[KawaiiKame]

as for lorne, it has to do with what i said earlier he seems to be too jokey and comfortable calling himself kira and stuff. if i were kira, i probably wouldn't joke about it tbh

[KawaiiKame]

Fucking Hell lmfao this is a possible reality
Lorne straight up said he was Kira
STD is saying it's obvi
Mfw

[KawaiiKame]

I really hope STD isn't mindgaming himself into a win as Kira but I'm semi feeling he's honest in saying he is a Follower

[KawaiiKame]

Like being bored with the game? I buy that, same with making it so obvious he's Kira so we eliminate him and he wins with Kira alive

[KawaiiKame]

"i think in my mind as a follower, i would attempt to distance but do it lightly, i wouldn't try to signal because it's too risky"

Did std attempt to lightly distance with anyone?

[KawaiiKame]

Gonna be real with you StD doesn't give follower vibes to begin with, still feeling the Lorne/N_M slot or Meg for Gimli's second Follower.

He just claimed follower...

And why should it... believe him?

Well he would have to be either follower or Kira.
Since Vander is also conf!scum you are just looking for the third in the trio or you make a call that StD is Kira

Is this Meg alluding to being Kira?

[KawaiiKame]

i think in my mind as a follower, i would attempt to distance but do it lightly, i wouldn't try to signal because it's too risky, especially if i knew i'd likely have to fall on my sword for kira at some point. i think that makes HPE more likely than Gimli, with HPE hoping the anonymous note would stir the pot and push us towards gimli.

i think that's where my head's at atm but i want to think it through some more.

STD is distancing with HPE

[KawaiiKame]

HPE has been pretty silent since this whole thing started, they were making wall posts before. Just saying

Cool, why is HPE Kira to you?

[KawaiiKame]

HPE has been pretty silent since this whole thing started, they were making wall posts before. Just saying

You only pop in to cast doubt on us voting StD. You even asked him to unvote himself lmao. You're the other follower

Okay, and if we lose because you're stuck in you're ways you won't blame yourself, you'll blame others

Someone come in and hammer this fool. If we lose it's on me

[KawaiiKame]

HPE has been pretty silent since this whole thing started, they were making wall posts before. Just saying

Cool, why is HPE Kira to you?

I'm going based off it me originally being Gimli or HPE. Gimli I think is less likely now, so it leaves HPE.

Why is HPE Kira?

[KawaiiKame]

HPE has been quiet since this whole ordeal. At first they would not vote StD and then was willing to lay down and vote StD and go along with Gimli who they suspected.

HPE being quiet means HPE is away which is nai, HPE voted STD with this reasoning,

What is the vote count sitting at right now anyhow? You're all calling this one a Follower to StD but it is genuinely trying to weigh up the options here because it still personally has reason to believe in Kira!Gimli.

You didn't answer me on why you think StD is lying

Y'know what? instead of trying to figure out shit through the chaos and try to explain myself and be confused as fuck during the process this one is just going to take the simple route.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

This feels town motivated, it could be Kira, but I don't see this as being evidence of HPE being Kira

[KawaiiKame]

It's StD and Kokichi here guys. Read Kokichi's ISO since the start of D2. He's been defending StD the whole time aside from the theatre vote/unvote right before the first deadline.

If Kokichi is a Follower do you think this is why Koki defended me when I was being pursued by Gimli when believing I was Kira?

[KawaiiKame]

Wait nvm Followers always knew who Kira is nvm

[KawaiiKame]

That detail is always lost to me

[KawaiiKame]

I would say, if I was follower, I would know there was a chance I would be outed somehow. And I would not make my interactions so straight forward, thus making town even more confused or look in the wrong direction.

[KawaiiKame]

thats his playerstyle

I dont see him solving, I find him opportunistic

he jumped on my wagon and im sure as a townie he wouldnt think im scummy

why wouldn't he? Why him in particular would he not see you scummy when others could?

-Koki on STD to Gimli

[KawaiiKame]

No one has tried to steer us away from StD harder than Kokichi has. Not even HPE

I thought of Koki being Kira but Koki instantly achieves the win when voting/hammering STD so that makes 0 sense
N_M didn't hammer
Meg didn't hammer
I didn't hammer
Meaning Kira was in the vote, between Black, Gimli, Save The Dragons, HighPrincessErinys

[KawaiiKame]

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

There was

no

defense of Kawaii. The post was only about the misunderstanding of what daykill meant, as this one thought you were referring to the detective's Condemn ability, not just voting someone off to eliminate them. The argument was vote don't condemn, because again, it misunderstood. Will you stop continuing the misunderstanding yourself now, please?

Oh, sorry.

Yeah that makes more sense now.

looking back im having trouble finding meaningful interactions between Vander and HPE.

im not sure. like i could see it as trying to cast shade onto HPE to see if it sticks. it doesn't make a lot of sense with an HPE!kira world

it could also be an attempt at distancing, the follower not trying to alert HPE that they're a follower, but trying to separate themselves and make it look like, in the event they got caught, that HPE wasn't kira.

Is this truth telling? If STD is following his own Follower logic to Vander's then HPE is Kira

[KawaiiKame]

kawaii, we're going to need your vote on StD here. Unless you really think it's not him

I'm weighing the options, I will be back

[KawaiiKame]

N_M only showed up when it was to hammer and possibly win the game (if he's Kira)

Idk though. I still want to stay the course on StD

Yeah, because it's fucking N_M.

If it's N_M why didn't N_M hammer and win when he had the chance to? Unless he happened to be away...

[KawaiiKame]

Fail

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Save_The_Dragons

[KawaiiKame]

Also, Lorne/N_M as Kira is a kind of impossible thing to figure out because you can go "oh well he literally said im kira a bunch so what if hes using his trollness to mask his kiraness" when the trollness is the big fat fucking problem. It's impossible to sift through what's real or not because Lorne's game plan was to just shitpost all game, and then he got replaced by N_M who notoriously does basically nothing all game but dodge prods and hammer any wagon that goes. Lorne SORTA did things for the slot but N_M has killed it.

This is exactly how N_M Kira wins, killing the Kira slot

[KawaiiKame]

Also, Lorne/N_M as Kira is a kind of impossible thing to figure out because you can go "oh well he literally said im kira a bunch so what if hes using his trollness to mask his kiraness" when the trollness is the big fat fucking problem. It's impossible to sift through what's real or not because Lorne's game plan was to just shitpost all game, and then he got replaced by N_M who notoriously does basically nothing all game but dodge prods and hammer any wagon that goes. Lorne SORTA did things for the slot but N_M has killed it.

This is exactly how N_M Kira wins, killing the Kira slot

I'm deeply afraid since N_M is an impending nuke who wins the instantly upon hammering if Kira

[KawaiiKame]

we're E-1 and std didn't hammer yet?

If STD is a Follower then he'd self-hammer so Kira will win

[KawaiiKame]

StD is in the corner playing DDR hitting F5 rn. If he was a follower he would just hammer and gg

Exactly, StD is Kira, this proves it

[KawaiiKame]

Now we wait

[KawaiiKame]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

You want to hammer again?

[KawaiiKame]

this might be first time this one's seen a game of mafia itself go through the stages of grief

What stage we in?

[KawaiiKame]

AYYYYY GG

[KawaiiKame]

Great game