Open 881 | Friends and Enemies | Postgame

[Dunnstral]

[*]Unvoting is not required, but is much appreciated.

Here you go
UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Bell

I didn't like their arguments

[Dunnstral]

like do you think dunnstral’s intention there was to encourage someone to vote for him?

like dunnstral had already made an rvs post re: the rules and bell obviously hasn’t posted and so forth

An interesting theory. Especially because I voted for Bell, who is bound to omgus vote me back.

[Dunnstral]

(thus my post about reading the rules as dunnstral had already quoted the rules and the act of our doing so was a plot point in two games we have played together - gacha mafia and silent star lunacy)

silent star i post 2860

gacha mafia post 805

Oh hello... was not aware of your identity

[Dunnstral]

Huh, quoting post 55 automatically puts the text into the quote

[Dunnstral]

I was just about to vote STD for voting Datasi and then I remembered datisi writing a whole shpeel about effort town posting as scum. And then I remembered I can’t read Datisi for shit.

i mean, if you're townreading the parts of datisi's post about me specifically it is recycled content and not really alignment indicative at least not in a straightforward sense as a read of me and such

What does this mean?

[Dunnstral]

hi dunnstral!

i was very excited when you joined because i know you said you wanted to play with me and that felt very nice of you and then i was failing at making that happen in a timely fashion but then you joined and +)

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

This + the not having read my posts earlier rub me the wrong way

[Dunnstral]

Post 118 gives me goosebumps

[Dunnstral]

Post 118 gives me goosebumps

Hell jelly role song did worth hR addition video

I was like ONG
THUS JS WHAT I DEAL WITH PATIENTS ON Q DWULY BASIS

I do not understand

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

This + the not having read my posts earlier rub me the wrong way

Maybe you missed when I said it was RVS.

I mean it was either vote you or Bulge, the only people I remember playing with.

I'm not a fan of you not having read to decide who to vote

[Dunnstral]

Why does that warrant a vote?

[Dunnstral]

It's not a weird question because you arbitrarily decided they should get to vote for no reason unquestioned

[Dunnstral]

I could not see, but yekaterina gave me vision

[Dunnstral]

I like the shadi wagon more than the Datisi wagon. Yackety sax feels towny.

[Dunnstral]

ausuka

*spits out pasta*

...god how am i SO FUCKING BAD AT ALTS??

scum theatre? :idea:

scum ari? :idea:

Perhaps

[Dunnstral]

I like the shadi wagon more than the Datisi wagon. Yackety sax feels towny.

are you talking about wagon comp or your own reads here?

My own reads

[Dunnstral]

I’d be awol if I were scum unfortunately.
I got punched in the face yesterday by a 6 year old and I’m processing that. It’s the kind of thing I’d use as an excuse to avoid posting but also, I can’t really force myself to post. I have a hard time as scum.

It’s my general policy to talk to everybody and engage. I like solving even though I’m extremely shit at it. But it’s been busy, so not as much solving and I’d like.

Alright I guess you have to be town then.

[Dunnstral]

I can't describe it but it feels a little stilted like "I'm just gonna troll because I'm scum and I don't know what else to say"

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an example of this.

You're right Bell I don't think this is really a tell for finding mafia.

[Dunnstral]

we can yeet shadi

or superbowl

or even sheep maybe

this game gives me look at postcount find scum vibes idk why

Not sheep... they actually post quite a bit early on as scum

[Dunnstral]

viewtopic.php?t=91227

As seen here

[Dunnstral]

i mean the reads aren't super duper strong but for std i think the superbowl read feels kind of good and i got a sorta similar vibe from him

dunn just overall feels relaxed sassy towards bell in a way i associate with town mostly shrug. to be fair this is less a read i developed just now and more a feeling I've maintained for a while

Dunn is full of sass as either alignment.

Interesting reads fellas

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Malakittens

Spicy vote

[Dunnstral]

we can yeet shadi

or superbowl

or even sheep maybe

this game gives me look at postcount find scum vibes idk why

Not sheep... they actually post quite a bit early on as scum

is this consistent across all of their scum games? like lurking as towntell is kinda ...

I haven't checked but it gives me pause in pushing them.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Malakittens

Spicy vote

How spicy what kinda spice are you adding to the crockpot

Their early game was NAI as I'm sure their real life wasn't planned around mafia. The drunk stuff is not AI to me.

The posts after are not very interesting. So I feel they could be mafia.

[Dunnstral]

I just wanted to explore and I wasn't that confident

[Dunnstral]

They’re defending sheep for inadmissible reasons.

It makes sense to me. Enough to not want to vote them out day 1, at least.

[Dunnstral]

people need to actually post and interact with Bell so I can refine my read on him

like this doesnt work if ya'all don't post

I already think you're mafia so it probably would not be productive

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. You either think Bell is mafia or you want others to interact with them so you can refine your read on them.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

ok so reads wise, here are my takes on the players in this game :]

Datisi

ok first of all datisi always rolls scum. this is important if you believe in the gambler's fallacy, or its superior equivalent, anti gambler's fallacy, which holds that if someone keeps rolling scum they keep rolling scum. despite my making fun of him - which i hold to be fully justified in every way - he is actually a very good scum player and that needs to be kept in mind

146 feels +town to me. not sure exactly how to verbalise it, but it comes off as like, weirdly sheepy and lacking conviction, which i think is fairly +town because this stuff can just happen as a result of the game being hard as town; whereas scum datisi i think is good at creating options and it's more difficult to see how his thought process gets to the point where he thinks this is a good post to make.

182 is a bit ??? to me because it's like, why would you think i'm not ausuka? i told you i was making an alt in your discord DMs like a couple weeks before the game started and i don't think my posts are that different. i get being like 'oh i didn't think of that' but sheer shock is a bit strange. however unless someone told him beforehand i was ausuka it's probably not ai at all and idk how likely that is

does datisi try and pocket me and then call me stupid? maybe? i think he would know i wouldn't like that and i'm something of an emotional player so maybe it's slightly +town

as scum once, i pushed datisi because he townread someone pushing on him. i accused him of trying to defuse the situation. he was town in that game. i guess that is to say, i don#t really get what's so unnatural about the bulge read or why town datisi wouldn't make it

overall i lean town on datisi so far, i think

Aristeia

she flirts with datisi a lot. that's not ai it just makes me smile

i originally didn't like 206 because speculation about scumteams or whatever that doesn't involve a serious push on one of the people involved has always felt empty to me and makes me go :neutral: but also i can kind of see why she would find that datisi post a bit over-the-top so shrug

the read on bell in 389 is interesting. my instinct is to like it, and i can kind of see where she's coming from if town, even if i'm not sure i 100% get it - maybe partially because i lack context? but it's true that bell lacks bite in this game.

yekaterina

so, i don't think katya is town particularly, which i get is an unusual opinion to have. she was scum in the recently completed micro 1087 and just absolutely swept the game so i don't really think i should buy into the narrative that like, she's obvtown because she posts a lot of stuff that looks vaguely thoughtful. obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

obviously, i didn't like 167 - i mean i'm biased because like, it's me, and it did explain the post was trying not to give anything away but... meh, i'm just not a fan of the whole exchange

didn't really like 178 like 'you should expect i'll be obvious town' feels a bit like scum trying to be too cheeky to be scum. idk if that makes sense

i don't know if i need to go through the whole honeypot thing again. i'm not sure if anyone except me actually read that. but like, i basically just don't like how light of a wave katya makes towards shadi, not really doing anything there, and calling it a honeypot because after she did that, people wouldn't 'need' to talk to shadi and therefore anyone who does is probably scum? i think it's possible that there's some playstyle difference there because it is incredibly foreign to how i play mafia. but the thing that really got me is the idea that anyone pushing shadi is necessarily like, influenced by her push and being opportunistic, even though it wasn't really a push and was a light and noncommittal idea about how she doesn't really know who scum is. and it comes without really engaging with the reasons why they were doing that. i do still think there is some partner equity there but that's not important for now. of course, there's the whole deal where she doesn't like votes/wagons and that's obviously genuine but it is obviously also aware that a lot of people do not share this view. so like to review, she is asked who scum is, and instead of answering normally sets up a 'honeypot' except the honey attracts people that disagree with it about how wagons work, which she apparently doesn't want to discuss. not to mention she goes to great lengths to emphasise how much she does not really believe in this read which just seems... incredibly counterproductive to the entire purpose. and obviously if she's scum it's a rather intricate thing, but i really do not see the town thought process here, and i think it's a +scum thing to do.

and yeah idk that is basically my whole read on katya. even in her more recent posts, i still don't really understand it or where it's coming from at all in terms of what she's pushing people for and if she's town, what she's going for, who she might like to eliminate. i don't see the thought process behind any of it. but i think part of that *could* be that i play very differently. i mean, i townread it once before, but maybe that game i wasn't as cautious of being snowed; i should probably go back and check. i lean scum on katya right now

the bulge

the bulge. i vibed him as town early, just based on how he was sharing reads and stuff in what i perceived to be a relaxed way. i liked 223 a bit. and like, the superbowl wagon comments are just... could they be from scum? yeah. but i tend to like proactive stuff like this that shows care for the gamestate, understanding things and parsing them so you can read people, sue me.

281 and 283 i have more mixed feelings about. my instinct is to say that unreasonable isn't scummy and that i don't like the approach but after reading the conversation for a while i get what he's saying better? like, the 'reasonable' word stuck in my brain but i think it might just be a red herring because bulge is saying that he doesn't believe datisi's emotional reaction to the question is genuine because he doesn't seem to actually care about the question itself. which seems like a fairly towny line of thinking actually; it's engaging with the thread on something of a deeper level and i think it's something he's put thought into. if he's scum it's very good scumplay.

uh, his more recent posts are more content-free. i can kind of see the desire behind pushing superbowl/presumably the datisi vote is a continuation of earlier so whatever.

Bell

bell has a lot of posts which i don't take a lot out of. 292 is probably the first interesting post in the entire bell iso. i didn't think datisi's read was bad personally - and as i said, i've pushed him for that as scum before, so i don't want to townread this in itself, but at least it's like making observations and doing something?

i don't hate his counter push on ari? most of his poking and pushing seems to lack edge, in the sense he's not really trying to wagon people or push people at any point. in that sense, i agree with aristeia. i am totally unfamiliar with bell, but i don't really get the sense he's forcing himself to be here tho; he's just around, vibing, but not with a strong sense of purpose? and again, idk him or the meta here, but it feels unfair to pick on him for that when a lot of people feel the same or worse.

i think bell acting like my laptop breaking is some sort of mystery or whatever is weird but probably not ai. same w/ blockgate

overall? shrug, i don't really want to kill him today but i don't particularly think he's town either.

Doctor Drew

drew has kind of dropped off, unfortunately. i thought he was towny early on. as i say in 196 i think 186 is a likely townpost because it's counter-intuitive for scum drew to say that about std, unless he's actually scum with std i guess. i also see how someone would sus the datisi vote on drew, so that part is fine. and the scumread on me is fine, or even good; i get where it's coming from and how it would come to a towny thought process even if i don't agree.

however since then he has just been completely low energy? like he pushes datisi for a while, which is meh but whatever, and then he says the push is becoming less productive - yeah sure that makes sense - but he doesn't really follow through on it and totally deflates.

i think this balances out to a townlean; he's been towny enough that i have no interest in pushing him right now but that's not an iron strong read

Dunnstral

i guess it's not that hard to fake but i did like his early drew push? felt believable. i'm biased but i liked 308 because

he was agreeing with me

idk he was pushing me earlier and then called the shadi wagon good and agreed with my comment on ari which feels a bit like towny fluidity. i think the malakittens vote is good. overall, i'm not certain of it but i think dunnstral is town this game

Malakittens

a little background context; i am aware of the malakittens meta. she did some stuff in datisi's cafe and i thought she was probably town because of the meta. she was not town. therefore, i don't really care about the meta.

anyway, her posts are very social, which isn't inherently bad but she does seem to care about that even at the expense of scumhunting. i don't like 373; i'm not entirely sure what she's trying to say about bell, but it seems a lot more interesting than 'drew is always scum' - it just feels off to me in terms of thought process. she could easily be scum here. on the other hand, she is a cat, which gets points

shadi1337

well, i think shadi is the player i need to do this for the least, since i've explained my thoughts on him in some depth already. it could come from town but the townread on katya in 63 is probably what i expect scum to say here? saying he's 'not opposed' to voting datisi when asking bulge about his read feels kind of weird, in the sense i'm not sure why it's there and might be self-conscious. he doesn't like alts existing, which is actually the real reason i scumread him. the rest of these posts are a front. as i said, the read on datisi and me is *very* weird to me, and to me it shows a lack of care in solving the both of us which i dislike; i think you get to the conclusion he did if you very briefly skim datisi's post which town can do but if he's doing that, and still refers to the post to explain his decisions, it feels very very off to me.

and again, if he thinks sheep would 'definitely' be more investigative as town, it's just odd that he needs prompting to bring it up - i don't see the town thought process here really.

i think he was asked about it and didn't respond - the 'one scum' thing feels oddly specific. from his perspective, couldn't there be two? there could also be zero even if he's town but i acknowledge a lot of town players will think that is unlikely

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him. and it can be difficult to tell between unmotivated town and unmotivated mafia sometimes; if you don't really care about your win condition, it's hard to tell from your actions what your win conditions is

Save the Dragons

i find std hard to sort. the push on datisi had vaguely good vibes, or at least i, uh... idk how to put it into words, but i think scum std makes the points from 327 without prompting more likely, and i think in general it could come from town easily and scum, like, could approach it this way but i'm not sure they would. think 415 is a believable read? the read would have been solidified if he had questioned me townreading him but shrug.

superbowl9

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things. the rest of his posts are equally empty. with 213 it's like... ok? is it scummy, because you're not really following up on it? i mean, none of it can't come from town, but there's rather a lack of anything interesting or towny in his posts and i'm not a fan of it. i guess to his credit most mafia players are better at pretending to do things, but some of the stuff he does looks like an *attempt* to contribute, i'm just not feeling it at all

sheepsaysmeep

sheepsaysmeep. i mean, he's bell's block buddy i guess, whatever that means? maybe they both live in california. well, i'd like him to elaborate on 297 because that post is just there and i'm not sure what the follow through is.

This is an insightful post; town points.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

ok so reads wise, here are my takes on the players in this game :]

Datisi

ok first of all datisi always rolls scum. this is important if you believe in the gambler's fallacy, or its superior equivalent, anti gambler's fallacy, which holds that if someone keeps rolling scum they keep rolling scum. despite my making fun of him - which i hold to be fully justified in every way - he is actually a very good scum player and that needs to be kept in mind

146 feels +town to me. not sure exactly how to verbalise it, but it comes off as like, weirdly sheepy and lacking conviction, which i think is fairly +town because this stuff can just happen as a result of the game being hard as town; whereas scum datisi i think is good at creating options and it's more difficult to see how his thought process gets to the point where he thinks this is a good post to make.

182 is a bit ??? to me because it's like, why would you think i'm not ausuka? i told you i was making an alt in your discord DMs like a couple weeks before the game started and i don't think my posts are that different. i get being like 'oh i didn't think of that' but sheer shock is a bit strange. however unless someone told him beforehand i was ausuka it's probably not ai at all and idk how likely that is

does datisi try and pocket me and then call me stupid? maybe? i think he would know i wouldn't like that and i'm something of an emotional player so maybe it's slightly +town

as scum once, i pushed datisi because he townread someone pushing on him. i accused him of trying to defuse the situation. he was town in that game. i guess that is to say, i don#t really get what's so unnatural about the bulge read or why town datisi wouldn't make it

overall i lean town on datisi so far, i think

Aristeia

she flirts with datisi a lot. that's not ai it just makes me smile

i originally didn't like 206 because speculation about scumteams or whatever that doesn't involve a serious push on one of the people involved has always felt empty to me and makes me go :neutral: but also i can kind of see why she would find that datisi post a bit over-the-top so shrug

the read on bell in 389 is interesting. my instinct is to like it, and i can kind of see where she's coming from if town, even if i'm not sure i 100% get it - maybe partially because i lack context? but it's true that bell lacks bite in this game.

yekaterina

so, i don't think katya is town particularly, which i get is an unusual opinion to have. she was scum in the recently completed micro 1087 and just absolutely swept the game so i don't really think i should buy into the narrative that like, she's obvtown because she posts a lot of stuff that looks vaguely thoughtful. obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

obviously, i didn't like 167 - i mean i'm biased because like, it's me, and it did explain the post was trying not to give anything away but... meh, i'm just not a fan of the whole exchange

didn't really like 178 like 'you should expect i'll be obvious town' feels a bit like scum trying to be too cheeky to be scum. idk if that makes sense

i don't know if i need to go through the whole honeypot thing again. i'm not sure if anyone except me actually read that. but like, i basically just don't like how light of a wave katya makes towards shadi, not really doing anything there, and calling it a honeypot because after she did that, people wouldn't 'need' to talk to shadi and therefore anyone who does is probably scum? i think it's possible that there's some playstyle difference there because it is incredibly foreign to how i play mafia. but the thing that really got me is the idea that anyone pushing shadi is necessarily like, influenced by her push and being opportunistic, even though it wasn't really a push and was a light and noncommittal idea about how she doesn't really know who scum is. and it comes without really engaging with the reasons why they were doing that. i do still think there is some partner equity there but that's not important for now. of course, there's the whole deal where she doesn't like votes/wagons and that's obviously genuine but it is obviously also aware that a lot of people do not share this view. so like to review, she is asked who scum is, and instead of answering normally sets up a 'honeypot' except the honey attracts people that disagree with it about how wagons work, which she apparently doesn't want to discuss. not to mention she goes to great lengths to emphasise how much she does not really believe in this read which just seems... incredibly counterproductive to the entire purpose. and obviously if she's scum it's a rather intricate thing, but i really do not see the town thought process here, and i think it's a +scum thing to do.

and yeah idk that is basically my whole read on katya. even in her more recent posts, i still don't really understand it or where it's coming from at all in terms of what she's pushing people for and if she's town, what she's going for, who she might like to eliminate. i don't see the thought process behind any of it. but i think part of that *could* be that i play very differently. i mean, i townread it once before, but maybe that game i wasn't as cautious of being snowed; i should probably go back and check. i lean scum on katya right now

the bulge

the bulge. i vibed him as town early, just based on how he was sharing reads and stuff in what i perceived to be a relaxed way. i liked 223 a bit. and like, the superbowl wagon comments are just... could they be from scum? yeah. but i tend to like proactive stuff like this that shows care for the gamestate, understanding things and parsing them so you can read people, sue me.

281 and 283 i have more mixed feelings about. my instinct is to say that unreasonable isn't scummy and that i don't like the approach but after reading the conversation for a while i get what he's saying better? like, the 'reasonable' word stuck in my brain but i think it might just be a red herring because bulge is saying that he doesn't believe datisi's emotional reaction to the question is genuine because he doesn't seem to actually care about the question itself. which seems like a fairly towny line of thinking actually; it's engaging with the thread on something of a deeper level and i think it's something he's put thought into. if he's scum it's very good scumplay.

uh, his more recent posts are more content-free. i can kind of see the desire behind pushing superbowl/presumably the datisi vote is a continuation of earlier so whatever.

Bell

bell has a lot of posts which i don't take a lot out of. 292 is probably the first interesting post in the entire bell iso. i didn't think datisi's read was bad personally - and as i said, i've pushed him for that as scum before, so i don't want to townread this in itself, but at least it's like making observations and doing something?

i don't hate his counter push on ari? most of his poking and pushing seems to lack edge, in the sense he's not really trying to wagon people or push people at any point. in that sense, i agree with aristeia. i am totally unfamiliar with bell, but i don't really get the sense he's forcing himself to be here tho; he's just around, vibing, but not with a strong sense of purpose? and again, idk him or the meta here, but it feels unfair to pick on him for that when a lot of people feel the same or worse.

i think bell acting like my laptop breaking is some sort of mystery or whatever is weird but probably not ai. same w/ blockgate

overall? shrug, i don't really want to kill him today but i don't particularly think he's town either.

Doctor Drew

drew has kind of dropped off, unfortunately. i thought he was towny early on. as i say in 196 i think 186 is a likely townpost because it's counter-intuitive for scum drew to say that about std, unless he's actually scum with std i guess. i also see how someone would sus the datisi vote on drew, so that part is fine. and the scumread on me is fine, or even good; i get where it's coming from and how it would come to a towny thought process even if i don't agree.

however since then he has just been completely low energy? like he pushes datisi for a while, which is meh but whatever, and then he says the push is becoming less productive - yeah sure that makes sense - but he doesn't really follow through on it and totally deflates.

i think this balances out to a townlean; he's been towny enough that i have no interest in pushing him right now but that's not an iron strong read

Dunnstral

i guess it's not that hard to fake but i did like his early drew push? felt believable. i'm biased but i liked 308 because

he was agreeing with me

idk he was pushing me earlier and then called the shadi wagon good and agreed with my comment on ari which feels a bit like towny fluidity. i think the malakittens vote is good. overall, i'm not certain of it but i think dunnstral is town this game

Malakittens

a little background context; i am aware of the malakittens meta. she did some stuff in datisi's cafe and i thought she was probably town because of the meta. she was not town. therefore, i don't really care about the meta.

anyway, her posts are very social, which isn't inherently bad but she does seem to care about that even at the expense of scumhunting. i don't like 373; i'm not entirely sure what she's trying to say about bell, but it seems a lot more interesting than 'drew is always scum' - it just feels off to me in terms of thought process. she could easily be scum here. on the other hand, she is a cat, which gets points

shadi1337

well, i think shadi is the player i need to do this for the least, since i've explained my thoughts on him in some depth already. it could come from town but the townread on katya in 63 is probably what i expect scum to say here? saying he's 'not opposed' to voting datisi when asking bulge about his read feels kind of weird, in the sense i'm not sure why it's there and might be self-conscious. he doesn't like alts existing, which is actually the real reason i scumread him. the rest of these posts are a front. as i said, the read on datisi and me is *very* weird to me, and to me it shows a lack of care in solving the both of us which i dislike; i think you get to the conclusion he did if you very briefly skim datisi's post which town can do but if he's doing that, and still refers to the post to explain his decisions, it feels very very off to me.

and again, if he thinks sheep would 'definitely' be more investigative as town, it's just odd that he needs prompting to bring it up - i don't see the town thought process here really.

i think he was asked about it and didn't respond - the 'one scum' thing feels oddly specific. from his perspective, couldn't there be two? there could also be zero even if he's town but i acknowledge a lot of town players will think that is unlikely

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him. and it can be difficult to tell between unmotivated town and unmotivated mafia sometimes; if you don't really care about your win condition, it's hard to tell from your actions what your win conditions is

Save the Dragons

i find std hard to sort. the push on datisi had vaguely good vibes, or at least i, uh... idk how to put it into words, but i think scum std makes the points from 327 without prompting more likely, and i think in general it could come from town easily and scum, like, could approach it this way but i'm not sure they would. think 415 is a believable read? the read would have been solidified if he had questioned me townreading him but shrug.

superbowl9

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things. the rest of his posts are equally empty. with 213 it's like... ok? is it scummy, because you're not really following up on it? i mean, none of it can't come from town, but there's rather a lack of anything interesting or towny in his posts and i'm not a fan of it. i guess to his credit most mafia players are better at pretending to do things, but some of the stuff he does looks like an *attempt* to contribute, i'm just not feeling it at all

sheepsaysmeep

sheepsaysmeep. i mean, he's bell's block buddy i guess, whatever that means? maybe they both live in california. well, i'd like him to elaborate on 297 because that post is just there and i'm not sure what the follow through is.

This is an insightful post; town points.

While I agree this definitely seems like a townie post, it is just a detailed list of reads.

What exactly do you find insightful? Especially when this is like 400 posts ago, her reads may have changed dramatically for all you know.

I don't think that their reads changing after this point changes whether it was an insightful post.

I think there are some good points in here. They have some interesting thoughts on yekaterina, I didn't realize they posted similar to this as mafia. Calling Mala's posts social seems right to me.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dr. Drew

Im fighting you too Drew jtlyk

Come at me bro

Im fighting you too Drew jtlyk

But why so quick to go off Dats, then Ari, then me?

So I can't explain my read and when I do I'm panicking

An OMGUS at the first sign of pressure with 1 day till deadline? Your town game is better than this

So I can't explain my read and when I do I'm panicking

An OMGUS at the first sign of pressure with 1 day till deadline? Your town game is better than this

One, literally had no idea you were voting me.

Two, you kept saying you couldn't really describe the town read on ari.......then all of sudden you could.

So ya, phony.

There aren’t many ways to interpret “off” as anything other than to to jump off of and jump onto someone else. Or in this case, switch votes.

It was probably just a verbal slip after a poser contest. I lie and scum slip all the time as town.
Worth poking at him just to see what he does tho. You’re a bit too on top of things, but there are decent reasons to be so when the game just kind of dies when left alone.

It is perhaps too charitable to write this off as a verbal slip. If 728 is a lie Doctor Drew does have something to gain from it: not looking like they are OMGUSING superbowl9.

That and I don't think what Doctor Drew is pushing here is particularly strong. It does look opportunistic to me.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Dunnstral]

I guess from skimming the last pages REALLY roughly it doesn't seem like Super Bowl really was trying to save themself by voting a more-viable counterwagon rather than datisi lol I guess I don't actually rly think this flips scum deep down

Strange that you are voting them then...

[Dunnstral]

All of your reads in 1027 have a 'meh' or 'idk' attached. It is kind of shifty.

[Dunnstral]

Bell I came around to being town after scumreading his content for a long time. I sorta believe all every time he has been LAMIST which has been like 20 times, all the "no way I could do this as scum" or like "im amazed u think that would come from scum me" (pending at some point in the game I should double check the meta behind this). also like really simplistically I think he is being pro-town in his way, there is like good poking around and clear constantly thinking about things

Yeah good point.

[Dunnstral]

I am around

[Dunnstral]

I am around

vote preference order of existing wagons?

Doctor Drew > Datisi > Shdi > Superbowl

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Datisi

[Dunnstral]

I put forward the notion that The Bulge dying is significant info. Mafia would have been trying to eliminate a mason, and would have used The Bulge's posts to make a judgement call on them. They wouldn't have thought The Bulge could be a mason based on how The Bulge interacted with mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

now i am laughing at the thought of a datisi/meowmeow/superbowl scumteam

timing stuff is fine with regards to the 486 because i was just not incorporating time to write the pedit lol sorrysorry

still curious why bell would have been looking at that post in particular though

we coordinated this in our PT, hope u enjoyed the theatre

ugh should i read this giant meow post now or catch up on the rest of the thread first

Shadi1337 (4): meowmeow, Datisi, sheepsaysmeep, superbowl9

jesus

Suddenly Bulge is my strongest scum read and we should absolutely kill him.

it was only a matter of time

this game is so much easier when i can just tunnel my biggest sr but i have like 6 now and only 1 shovel

i dont wanna flip shadi today but at least they're not mason

2 days til dl tho and not another wagon in sight

VOTE: meowmeow? yea?

i haven't much cared for ari's contributions this game, the talking to a wall thing in particular.

drew might be scum as well, i usually have a good feeling about him but the feeling aint feeling this time around

These are perhaps relevant posts. Looks like mafia could have thought The Bulge was a mason with Bell and maybe Shadi, and not with meowmeow/superbowl, and maybe Aristeia/Doctor Drew

[Dunnstral]

I take back the shadi thing they are clearly not a mason in mafia's minds due to 678

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: shadi1337 did a bit of homework and don't know why we came off this

who is we in this case? your vote was placed for 'motivation' and then you moved to doctor drew to 'fight' and then to datisi without much consideration for going back to shadi1337, at least not publically

Yes exactly

His wagon died out originally (at least for me) because the game stagnated and he was out of sight out of mind while we were pushing elsewhere.
Then he gets flashed at deadline instantly appears, unvotes??? (you yourself were confused), and then we just forget about him?? Like hes a lim candidate here and then gets mentioned once after that. At deadline compromise lims tend to win out and I don't believe anyone openly advocated against his lim so... why did we just not push him?

i was open to it and was trying to work through datisi stuff to maybe get there and there wasn’t enough support for the wagon, and you yourself weren’t supporting it and weren’t working towards just feels kinda ??? for you to be like ‘why did we forget at shadi1337’ when

we

didn’t

datisi was pushing for it meowmeow was pushing for it i was open to it aristeia was voting there

I mean I was asleep lmao
That's exactly what I'm talking about though like you three were on it and then it just poofed

because there wasn’t any other support so it dissolves into the other wagons because non-viable

like your wagon was viable, datisi wagon became viable, then your wagon unviable with bell locking in datisi and save the dragons switching from you to datisi, so datisi eliminated

from your perspective, none of the things that made datisi the elimination can really be hard scum indicative as could have landed on you if you’re town, and three of the players who preferred to eliminate shadi1337 preferred to eliminate you over datisi, so it’s like, who do you think was forgetting shadi1337 of the people there?

Okay facts: shadi was not limmed. Shadi is not townread (by anyone I'm pretty sure?). "We" as in the collective of the players in the game had a wagon on him, it fell apart, and then it came back for like 10 mins at deadline and died.

If you're saying sentiment was Datisti>superbowl>shadi okay fine I wasnt there at deadline but I didn't see "what about shadi" besides the brief interaction I mentioned (which pinged as not enough for someone who was/is widely scumread). So this is "What about shadi". Does that make sense?

Between 1127 and 1176 Aristeia and Datisi move their votes elsewhere off of Shadi. As of 1176 I would say that Shadi was not a viable option, given we had around 2 hours left in the day and they only had 1 vote on them.

[Dunnstral]

I put forward the notion that The Bulge dying is significant info. Mafia would have been trying to eliminate a mason, and would have used The Bulge's posts to make a judgement call on them. They wouldn't have thought The Bulge could be a mason based on how The Bulge interacted with mafia.

maybe? but personally i feel like they might just target people who are widely townread as masons, rather than specifically trying to find potential mason interactions

Who was expressing a townread on The Bulge yesterday?

Going off of your theory, those people are more likely to be town, as I doubt mafia kill someone only they are townreading.

[Dunnstral]

Shadi I am hesitant to push anybody for having a hard change in opinions. Do remember that there are masons and a conversation in a PT could lead to what you are describing.

[Dunnstral]

How much of day 2 have you read, Malakittens?

[Dunnstral]

I feel that Doctor Drew is being disingenuous in their arguments.

[Dunnstral]

I feel that Doctor Drew is being disingenuous in their arguments.

How exactly?

I am basically saying the same things I said on D1 about SB.

And have been pretty adamant about not moving off of SB.

1290 and 1304 feel obtuse. I'm not sure whether posts like 1305 happened the way you are describing them.

[Dunnstral]

I have not seen a convincing reason to vote for superbowl9 today. Indeed, Save the Dragons and sheepsaysmeep have both made 1 post this game day, that being a naked vote on superbowl9 with no other explanation. And Aristeia has repeatedly said they want to eliminate superbowl9 today but hasn't really given any

reasons

for doing so.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: superbowl

Lock it in, never leaving

VOTE: superbowl

Lock it in, never leaving

okay why though? like if it’s datisi flip it’s like, how are you sure that makes superbowl9 a scums?

I thought Superbowl was scum yesterday, still think the same today.

Anything to say about shadi? Or dont wanna leave any associatives?

Oh stop it, Super should have the lim yesterday.....look at their iso and tell me they aren't scum.

This also doesn't explain anything.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Dunnstral]

This is the second time dunnstral has defended superbowl by attacking the scumcase, not because dunnstral thinks superbowl is town

Can you link us to the alleged first time that I did this?

[Dunnstral]

And also to the scum case, please. I want to take a look at that.

So 2 posts I am looking for:
-The first post where I defend superbowl by attacking the case against superbowl
-The case against superbowl

[Dunnstral]

why?

because there is nothing on the ISO that screams town.

I usually get a ping!town from std by now

there's ~nothing~

Why are you town reading The Bulge?

[Dunnstral]

What are you squinting at there. I hope you are not saying we're both mafia because we both said spicy.

[Dunnstral]

do you still find malakittens to be suspicious?

right like,

dunnstral wanted malakittens no support otherwise
malakittens wanted doctor drew no support otherwise
dunnstral now wants doctor drew waiting to see regarding support
malakittens now wants save the dragons using same language as dunnstral earlier waiting to see regarding support

what dunnstral thinks of malakittens and similarities between pushes and what that might mean to dunnstral regarding the game as a whole potential associatives et cetera

like from dunnstral's perspective dunnstral was not distancing malakittens but was malakittens distancing doctor drew? has dunnstral thought about things regarding

and would also like more information from in general i guess

I am considering their stance on Doctor Drew which is a bigger scumread for me. Distancing was not the first thing I thought of. I was also wondering if the townread on The Bulge at day start was 'fake' (as in they knew The Bulge was dead because they killed them) or real. I am undecided on Mala but it is worth consideration.

As for my vote on Doctor Drew, It was not based on what Mala was saying.

[Dunnstral]

In general I tend to avoid touching on these topics and tend to think that those unaware of them are more likely to be scum because they don’t think about what might be good for town, what lines of inquiry are risky or could have bad outcomes.

I disagree; I think this usually comes from town as mafia are more careful about how they are perceived. And from experience, mafia very rarely try to fish for info in a way that is noticable.

[Dunnstral]

I, too, would never shoot bulge

Why not?

[Dunnstral]

I am considering their stance on Doctor Drew which is a bigger scumread for me. Distancing was not the first thing I thought of. I was also wondering if the townread on The Bulge at day start was 'fake' (as in they knew The Bulge was dead because they killed them) or real. I am undecided on Mala but it is worth consideration.

As for my vote on Doctor Drew, It was not based on what Mala was saying.

guess it didn't feel like malakittens really believed in doctor drew push as it was just, 'hey vote doctor drew no further comment', so distancing seemed possible to me

and since you had expressed suspicious of both was wondering if you felt similarly

i tend to discount things like the bulge thing entirely these days because too hard to weigh and have seen both results numerous times

I think it is worth consideration, and I didn't notice how shallow their push on Doctor Drew was. At the time I didn't feel similarly, though.

[Dunnstral]

I am not very keen on voting out Shadi as I can this as their posting style rather than an indicator they are mafia.

[Dunnstral]

I can't describe it but it feels a little stilted like "I'm just gonna troll because I'm scum and I don't know what else to say"

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an example of this.

You're right Bell I don't think this is really a tell for finding mafia.

for dunn

What are you trying to say?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[Dunnstral]

feel like dunnstral is scummy

Any reason? It looks like you are only saying this because I voted for you.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think that is an answer to what you were asked. I voted for you because there was no interest in voting for Doctor Drew and I wasn't interested in voting for superbowl or Shadi. You have been coasting for a while now so I decided you were a fine vote.

[Dunnstral]

I cc mason

[Dunnstral]

Hi Bell. Anything you want to say before we eliminate superbowl9?

[Dunnstral]

Well. So was I.

[Dunnstral]

I wanted to see if anybody had anything left to say. Voting them means superbowl9 can choose to end the day on their terms by self voting if they so chose.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: superbowl9

[Dunnstral]

I didn't think it was you Bell