Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[usesPython]

VOTE: SmileyDude1

[usesPython]

VOTE: heip

[usesPython]

VOTE: heip 5 feels awkward as hell

Always nice when people read our mind

[usesPython]

Python, as a person eho if I recall correctly intentionally drove a misfade on heip in the past as an SK, don't you think heip is just being his usual limbait self?

I'm not saying it's town-indicative for him but I really don't think it's scum indicative.

ngl we've completely blanked out Normal Idea Mafia but on a quick re-read he feels less awkward there

[usesPython]

Talk to me about that

idk, it's the vibe I get

[usesPython]

VOTE: DragonEater70

24 was really bad and I don't see a town motivation to post it.

DE's normally like that, I don't think 24 is alignment indicative

[usesPython]

If you could produce a specific example to support that because I briefly skimmed some other games of his and nothing really strikes me the way that 24 does. It just really hits as a scum fretting over apperance whereas I think Town would probably be chill enough to just let the naked vote lie.

No town!DE is also pretty self-conscious of how he's perceived, 24 just feels like playstyle

[usesPython]

wartle spittin on page 3 fr fr

[usesPython]

the question itself that's made in 71 will never lead to anything productive, it depends if wiz has the ability as town to recognize this

I don't get it, it's easier to read people with similar playstyles as you so how is 71 unproductive

[usesPython]

Yeah torts is town as fuck

Anyway, join the Smiley wagon?

nah smiley spittin, sorry

[usesPython]

VOTE: THS

[usesPython]

What exactly is he spittin?

He read my mind in 90

[usesPython]

Anyone here?

Yo.

VOTE: heip 5 feels awkward as hell

From what I remember, Zhu just speaks like that—don’t think the awkwardness is alignment-indicative, personally.

Was wondering where you got this perspective from. The only game you two played together (to my knowledge) was 2311, where Heip was scum. How do you know it's not a scum-indicative trait for him?

You missed Open 880

[usesPython]

Also Wiz could definitely be scum here.

This is pretty spicy

[usesPython]

VOTE: wiz

[usesPython]

Anyway, while I don't think THS's wagon is NECESSARILY scum motivated, I do think it's >rand that there would be at least one scum who voted them (regardless of THS's alignment), simply because that's how early game wagons work. I like Wartortle, I hate myself but know am not scum*, I semi-like Pythin and I'm trying to pocket Naerys.

So that leaves SmileyDude1 who I am being told is towny this game, and OWER who I feel is lacking vibes-wise.

VOTE: OWER

*this is a joke, I don't hate myself

I feel like Naerys has the worst vote on the wagon, but like, not enough to do anything about it

[usesPython]

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

[usesPython]

I always mess up quotes lol

I never understand how people manage to break them though.

Quoting from the preview can break quotes

[usesPython]

Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.

Our problem with Naerys isn't that she voted for THS but that her vote feels like it was made to say anything at all about wartle who she was sheeping

[usesPython]

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

why would ths being scum necessitate me being town? why would naerys be expected to call me town there?

I mean if someones making cases you agree with that should make them townier in your eyes, I think the vibe feels off more because she avoids saying anything about you here

[usesPython]

Also, is nobody going to ask why I think this feels like a Newbie game?

No

[usesPython]

Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.

Our problem with Naerys isn't that she voted for THS but that her vote feels like it was made to

not

say anything at all about wartle who she was sheeping

EBWOP

[usesPython]

What do you think of DE, Enchant? I mean, aside from the return vote?

VOTE: Wiz

This is such a useless question to ask and it's making me feel Wiz is just trying to appear like he's solving and engaging, but doesn't have any real intent behind it.

I feel like you're tunneling here tbh

-A

[usesPython]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Do something interesting

-A

[usesPython]

Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.

Our problem with Naerys isn't that she voted for THS but that her vote feels like it was made to say anything at all about wartle who she was sheeping

This doesn't really refute the point I was making that your own vote on the THS wagon isn't really much better as you just naked voted in the middle of page 5. Talk me through 106, why did you vote there, was it just sheeping Wartortle?

wartle spittin on page 3 fr fr

VOTE: THS

I thought it was obvious we were sheeping wartles page 3 THS case

[usesPython]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Do something interesting

-A

I literally just asked everyone's scum read. This feels fake to me

Your ISO was just a "hi" and a "who's everyone scumreading", literally negative info on your slot

[usesPython]

Why not answer the question and ask me back to get more out of me?

Sounds boring, I'll pass

[usesPython]

Also, VOTE: DragonEater. Weird last three posts.

I don't get what's so weird about them

[usesPython]

Can the Wiz wallers condense their argument to like the length of a tweet, my eyes keep glazing over every time I try to read

-A

[usesPython]

Feels like half the arguments are meta reads that I can't dig into, OWER's the only person actually making a readable case

-A

[usesPython]

You were just talking about how you feel confident in your theory and then you go and vote for someone else entirely. I don’t get it

I feel confident in scum!Naerys, but

more

confident in scum!DE.

Why is DE scum?

-A

[usesPython]

Searching for replacements for DragonEater70 and Afrayed Knott.

[usesPython]

Just for the record, this is the post I typed out earlier (before I fell asleep):

VOTE: Wiz

I just don't see anything towny about him. I'm not saying the slot *screams* "scum", but I feel I could towncase literally everyone in this game except Wiz, Enchant and Hu Tao. And Hu Tao has made 2 posts. And Enchant is Enchant.

i think de is scum trying to push a vulnerable slot for bad reasons

DE's towntell is that as scum he can't case for shit, we were hoping to let him cook for longer

[usesPython]

I think posts like

Spoiler:

THS raging, calling everybody dumb and self voting felt really townie.

yeah it is, unfortunately

i'm gonna VOTE: python

Why?



ALso, VOTE: Enchant
I really hated that entrance.

Can you elaborate on this? AFAIK Enchant seems to have a jokey NotMafia-esque vibe to them so gut instinct is that's an NAI entrance for them.

You are right, but I feel town!Enchant does make an effort to solve while scum Enchant doesn't. It's probably too early to judge, but honestly I expected town!Enchant to come in and vote someone and talk about how that person is obvscum, even if it was in a trollish way and with troll reasoning.

However that read is a weaker scumread than that that I just got on Wiz from asking that question.

are at like the edge of what he can do as scum, we're fine with letting Roden cook here

[usesPython]

Black spittin hard holy hell

[usesPython]

Spoiler:

I think I'm leaning scum for you here

Hmmm. A quick skim over Steady's scum game here and I'm not seeing many similarities. I'm not going to rule out the possibility of Steady!scum based on a meta read but his play here seems less involved and thoughtful, like maybe he's more of a tryhard as scum? Would like to read a town game of his next

Steady's town game here feels more in line with his behavior this game. Slightly defensive, frustrated, annoyed. In his scum game it felt like he was more level-headed and played a type of mediator role. Obviously this doesn't mean much since I think good players can mimic their town game as scum, but I felt like pointing it out

Hmmm. A quick skim over Steady's scum game here and I'm not seeing many similarities. I'm not going to rule out the possibility of Steady!scum based on a meta read but his play here seems less involved and thoughtful, like maybe he's more of a tryhard as scum? Would like to read a town game of his next

I probably shouldn't be like this, but I'm pissy about being misread because in 1092 I had generally accurate reads but couldn't get enough grip on the game state because people wouldn't stop calling me scum

I understand this feeling and I get this way as town sometimes. This feels genuine enough

I think I'm comfortable leaning slightly town on you with this new information in my head

I like this progression

[usesPython]

do you really want me to link my MU account that i haven’t played on in years

This isn't really the kind of post I'd expect someone who's played forum mafia before to make

the question itself that's made in 71 will never lead to anything productive, it depends if wiz has the ability as town to recognize this

I don't get it, it's easier to read people with similar playstyles as you so how is 71 unproductive

uhh maybe. i'll defer to your judgement because i'm not a huge forum mafia dude

[usesPython]

Black spittin hard holy hell

Why do you think 5 is more likely to come from scum?

idk, the post just gave us an ick reaction and that was enough for us page 1

[usesPython]

Black spittin hard holy hell

Why do you think 5 is more likely to come from scum?

idk, the post just gave us an ick reaction and that was enough for us page 1

Like if you're looking for some nuanced reasoning then idk what to tell you cause there wasn't any

-A

[usesPython]

I was looking for any indication that 26, 28, and 30 were real thoughts but I don't think I'm going to get that

Do you think we'd make "non-real" thoughts as scum there?

-A

[usesPython]

I am not scum lol, stop pushing me smiley

Welcome back

VOTE: Naerys

[usesPython]

Python what was the point of 441? Do you have a read on Wartortle?

The big fights've been kinda hard to follow for us so we're just pointing out stuff that stuck out to us until people are done

[usesPython]

What big fights?

You don't have any read on Wartortle this game?

We vibed with his early posting and then kinda mentally checked out from the game once the Wiz/DE walls started happening

[usesPython]

What big fights?

You don't have any read on Wartortle this game?

We vibed with his early posting and then kinda mentally checked out from the game once the Wiz/DE walls started happening

Just realised that even if people start posting about new stuff it's still gonna be in relation to the reactions to those walls and we'll still have to read the original walls

pain

-A

[usesPython]

What is bothering me about python is that they say they mentally checked out from the game once Wiz vs. DE started happening, but I'm not noticing a difference in their posts pre and post DE/Wiz. They have pretty much the same attitude towards the game in regards to giving minimal reads and sheeping people

Like it kinda just seems like an excuse not to give reads or really play the game, especially considering the DE/Wiz argument wasn't nasty at all but rather fairly civil, so why did the walls take an emotional toll on python? Why did they accuse DE70 of tunneling in 226 if they didn't even read the walls they posted?

I'm willing to give python the benefit of the doubt if they are actually not feeling this game but something feels weird about how they have managed to position themselves on certain wagons while not actually doing much

It's invisible cause timezones lined up to have literally everyone posting only while we're asleep so we couldn't do our normal convo style of posting even before people started walling

And it's not anything to do with civility, we just can't really handle long posts that aren't directed at us; especially if they don't really have anything we can actually understand like most of the meta cases going on

220 we read cause it was the newest post and easy to digest, and we called DE out for tunneling cause we were townreading him for the Enchant case but couldn't see where he was coming from at all with the Wiz line

[usesPython]

Like it looks like we're sheeping people cause half the time people stole our takes while we were asleep, posts like 202 were the few times we didn't get sniped

[usesPython]

Like it looks like we're sheeping people cause half the time people stole our takes while we were asleep, posts like 202 were the few times we didn't get sniped

The stuff about time zones makes sense, because a lot of content is generated when y’all aren’t active, but I’m still a little confused—in 267, y’all said you were sheeping.

Doesn't sheeping mean you're voting someone for the same reason someone else is?

[usesPython]

I think this is just terminology, people were posting cases we'd make before we'd have a chance to make them so we followed the cases cause they were literally the same case we'd make if they didn't post anything

[usesPython]

blackstar's analysis on page 19 is questionable but it only's really AI if he's wolf w/me and obviously he's not

You're not considering a pocket attempt?

[usesPython]

blackstar's analysis on page 19 is questionable but it only's really AI if he's wolf w/me and obviously he's not

You're not considering a pocket attempt?

nah, i don't think scum are going to disagree with tsq for such bad reasons in that situation

I liked his progression on the read but town also aren't gonna deliberately have bad analysis so it seems weird to me that you're putting down the analysis as townie when you apparently found it questionable.

[usesPython]

like idk dismissing it out of hand like that feels like you already know it's not a pocket attempt

[usesPython]

Re-reading the game

Page 3:
{OWER, Wartle}
{THS}

[usesPython]

Page 4:
{Smiley}
{OWER, Blackstar}
{THS, Wartle}

[usesPython]

I ain't reading the page 6 walls

Page 7:
{Smiley}
{OWER}
{Blackstar}
{Wartle}
{THS}

[usesPython]

Page 8:
{Smiley, OWER}
{Blackstar}
{THS, Wartle}

[usesPython]

Page 9:
{Smiley}
{OWER}
{Blackstar}
{THS, Wartle}

[usesPython]

Page 9:
{Smiley}
{OWER}
{Blackstar}
{THS, Wartle}

Actually

{Smiley}
{DE70}
{OWER}
{Blackstar}
{THS, Wartle}

[usesPython]

Page 10:
{Smiley}
{DE70}
{OWER}
{Blackstar}
{Naerys}
{THS, Wartle}

We're kinda getting a mental block when it comes to reading any of Wiz's posts for some reason

[usesPython]

Page 11:
{Smiley}
{DE70, OWER}
{Blackstar}
{Hu Tao}
{Naerys}
{THS, Wartle}

[usesPython]

Page 11:
{Smiley}
{DE70, OWER}
{Blackstar}
{Hu Tao}
{Naerys}
{THS, Wartle}

Actually

{Smiley}
{DE70, OWER}
{Blackstar}
{Hu Tao}
{THS}
{Naerys}
{Wartle}

[usesPython]

Page 12:
{Smiley, OWER}
{DE70}
{Blackstar}
{Hu Tao}
{THS}
{Naerys}
{Wartle}

[usesPython]

Head empty, gonna read the rest later

[usesPython]

Page 13:
{Smiley, OWER}
{DE70, Blackstar}
{THS}
{Hu Tao}
{Naerys}
{Wartle}

[usesPython]

Page 14:
{OWER}
{Smiley}
{DE70, Blackstar}
{THS}
{Hu Tao}
{Wartle}
{Naerys}

[usesPython]

Page 17:
{OWER}
{Smiley}
{DE70, Blackstar, Black}
{THS}
{Hu Tao, Wartle}
{Naerys}

Kinda don't feel like reading Blacks intro catchup rn

[usesPython]

Page 18:
{OWER}
{Smiley, Black}
{DE70, Blackstar}
{THS}
{Hu Tao, Wartle}
{Naerys}

[usesPython]

Page 19:
{OWER}
{Smiley, Black}
{Shea, Blackstar}
{DE70}
{THS}
{Hu Tao, Wartle}
{Naerys}

[usesPython]

Page 20:
{OWER}
{Smiley, Black, Shea}
{Wiz}
{DE70, Blackstar}
{THS}
{Hu Tao, Wartle}
{Naerys}

[usesPython]

Page 21:
{OWER}
{Smiley, Black, Shea}
{Wiz}
{DE70}
{THS, Blackstar}
{Hu Tao, Wartle}
{Naerys}

[usesPython]

OWER-Shea, Wiz-Blackstar, and Hu Tao-Naerys tiers are all pretty fluid. rn we'd be fine with Hu Tao/Wartle/Naerys wagons

[usesPython]

Page 20:
{OWER}
{Smiley, Black, Shea}
{Wiz}
{DE70, Blackstar}
{THS}
{Hu Tao, Wartle}
{Naerys}

What on Page 20 helped y’all get past that block on reading me?

The reassessment of your read on our slot was readable

We had the tier list at something like

{Smiley, Black, Shea}
{Blackstar, Wiz}
{Wiz}
{DE70, Wiz}

narrowed it down to

{Blackstar, Wiz}
{DE70}

and then Blackstar dropped a bit to turn it into

{Wiz}
{DE70, Blackstar}

[usesPython]

I think just interacting with us helps a lot with making people more sortable when we check out from the game

[usesPython]

We're caught up

VOTE: Wartle

[usesPython]

kinda want to lim usesPython for that fucking spamfest.

[usesPython]

kinda want to lim usesPython for that fucking spamfest.

kinda surprised you reacted like this given that you've played with Ranger before without complaining about the spam

[usesPython]

DE/Roden, Black <--- Townread
Hu Tao, Smiley <--- Townlean
Naerys, THS <-- Null
Enchant, Python <-- Scumlean
AnimatedWiz, Wartortle <-- Scumread

Hu Tao gets a townlean from me because I genuinely don't think scum that's playing the way she is would make the vote she made in 264.

Thanks! Why/when did your thought process on Hu Tao switch, exactly? You scumread them hard in 291, which was

after

264.

Posts like this is why I think wiz is scum. The answer was right there but posting to look busy

It's not though? If the tr was for your 264 then them sring you in 291 means they changed their mind some time since then and it's not obvious when that happened

[usesPython]

Python do you have any specifics about your OWER TR that you're willing to share?

Re-reading his ISO he probably shouldn't be so high, I think a lot of it came down to liking his early posting and then glazing over his newer stuff.

[usesPython]

blackstar's analysis on page 19 is questionable but it only's really AI if he's wolf w/me and obviously he's not

You're not considering a pocket attempt?

nah, i don't think scum are going to disagree with tsq for such bad reasons in that situation

I liked his progression on the read but town also aren't gonna deliberately have bad analysis so it seems weird to me that you're putting down the analysis as townie when you apparently found it questionable.

never said that town are gonna deliberately have bad analysis

Yeah so if neither town nor scum are gonna have a deliberately bad argument and it happens anyways then I don't get how you'd get anything AI from it

[usesPython]

i skimmed through town Ower's iso in some bunnies game from 2022 and his tone was completely different to here

he lurked through the entire game, but he was quite analytical, moreso than in this game and his tone was different to this game

i don't think it's very convincing tho because he didn't have any games since 2021 before that

I feel like people change enough that reading someone off 1.5+ year old meta is pretty worthless

[usesPython]

Nuclear vibe read: Enchant might be scum

[usesPython]

676/677 feel like they'll be relevant later

[usesPython]

I don't think Roden is scum here and 676/677 feel like they're setting up some weird pre-flip shading for an eventual justification to hop on a Roden wagon

[usesPython]

I'm not sure why you interpret my post as shading. I was elaborating on my opportunism read since Roden didn't understand it. I don't need any extra justification to "hop on a Roden wagon." I've been pretty transparent with my DE/Roden read

I think it's more that the post feels like you're already posturing for a Roden wagon after a Wartle flip. We probably wouldn't have a problem with the post if you were voting for literally anyone else at the time but the "Here's why it's good for scum!Roden regardless of what Wartle flips" when you're actively voting for wartle feels ick

[usesPython]

Why are you ignoring the context? Roden gave his opinion on what his best play as scum would be depending on Wartortle's alignment. I didn't really agree with his logic in the WIFOM and responded accordingly

The context of how you got to that convo is fine, it's the vibe when you're giving the read that's off

[usesPython]

Also how does that logic apply to Annie when Annie has had Roden as his top SR and isn't even voting for Wartortle?

For Wiz it's the Roden/Naerys preflip that we have a problem with

[usesPython]

Why are you ignoring the context? Roden gave his opinion on what his best play as scum would be depending on Wartortle's alignment. I didn't really agree with his logic in the WIFOM and responded accordingly

The context of how you got to that convo is fine, it's the vibe when you're giving the read that's off

Like the way you talk about wartles alignment feels aggressively neutral for someone that's your top scumread

[usesPython]

I just don't understand this. It really feels like you are ignoring the context. Roden and I were both speaking in a hypothetical scum!Roden world and discussing his play based on a town and scum Wartortle

I don't think I'm good at explaining out there vibe reads. It doesn't feel like you have any sort of emotional attachment to your wartle read in that post. idk how to explain it better

[usesPython]

Kinda hoping we're wrong and one of us get shot before we have to look into this any further

[usesPython]

For what it's worth, if this does flip town I don't think it was a scum-driven wagon.

It feels like it built up naturally.

Oh? Who would you say is the scum that drove the wagon?

The votes from Python, Naerys and Enchant didn’t feel natural to me.

I went ahead and used Ctrl+F to check Python's ISO for Wartortle mentions and their vote. What was it that you didn't like?

The part where they reread the game and gave us their reads on each page. It felt like that was all a show to justify hopping on the Wartortle wagon. Especially since they didn’t give us any insight on why they ranked people where they did as they were reading.

Before the reread, they said Wartortle was “spitting” a couple of times and sheeped him on an early read. The jump from that to voting him felt off. They even had Naerys ranked below him after the reread and still voted for Wartortle

Naerys went up enough on page 22/23 to hit the Hu Tao/Wartle tier, we just didnt't bother making the last tier list since we figured it'd be obvious based on us not voting Naerys there

[usesPython]

The part where they reread the game and gave us their reads on each page. It felt like that was all a show to justify hopping on the Wartortle wagon. Especially since they didn’t give us any insight on why they ranked people where they did as they were reading.

Before the reread, they said Wartortle was “spitting” a couple of times and sheeped him on an early read. The jump from that to voting him felt off. They even had Naerys ranked below him after the reread and still voted for Wartortle

Naerys went up enough on page 22/23 to hit the Hu Tao/Wartle tier, we just didn't bother making the last tier list since we figured it'd be obvious based on us not voting Naerys there

And like you could just ask for an explanation of why someone's at the tier they are like Black did?

[usesPython]

Quick hammering day one is a play I would never make as scum because it's naturally going to bring negative attention to myself. Same with placing at e-1. So look in the middle of the bandwagon where your scum vote is not as likely to draw attention and you're more likely to find a scum.

This kind of thinking only works if the game is moving fast enough for people to be skipping posts, people are still gonna be noticing votes regardless of where you put them down on a game this small

[usesPython]

Hot take: scum were off wagon and just silently letting it go through

[usesPython]

VOTE: Blackstar

[usesPython]

VOTE: Blackstar

Why?

Like 60% gamestate read, I think going from being completely meh about the Wartle wagon to suddenly hating it and the people on the wagon after it went through is scummy as hell

[usesPython]

Like you'd figure there'd be talk about it before hand, it just feels like deliberately staying silent to let it go through then start pushing the limbait on the wagon

[usesPython]

VOTE: Roden

Someone wagon this with me

What's the roden case

[usesPython]

I don't think Roden is scum

[usesPython]

Because I know for a fact you don't

huh?

Roden thinks you and OWER are scum but for some reason he seems to think I can't vote for scum

I think it's pretty reasonable to not check peoples voting history when making snippy comments cause we didn't either

[usesPython]

I don't think either of you are scum, can y'all chill and vote for the real scum (Blackstar) here

[usesPython]

I'll be taking the night off from the thread but I want to see more votes on Roden please, not less

You're tunneling

[usesPython]

I'm sorry but I can't stand the way people like Roden play the game. They weave little personal insults in their posts and then act holier than thou

It's called matching energy

Can you stop

[usesPython]

VOTE: Blackstar

Why?

Like 60% gamestate read, I think going from being completely meh about the Wartle wagon to suddenly hating it and the people on the wagon after it went through is scummy as hell

I townread Wartortle early on and defended him in multiple posts. Then towards the end of the day I started to get swayed by the arguments about him not following through on his pushes and I stopped defending him.

I was away for a while and when I came back Naerys had dropped a weak vote on him followed by an immediate hammer from Enchant. It’s understandable that I would think the wagon was fishy after that rushed hammer on someone who didn’t seem that suspicious to me

Are you unironically scumreading Enchant for quickhammering someone day 1?

[usesPython]

Are you unironically scumreading Enchant for quickhammering someone day 1?

I scumread them at the end of D1, yeah. I don’t now

Have you played with Enchant before

[usesPython]

Are you unironically scumreading Enchant for quickhammering someone day 1?

I scumread them at the end of D1, yeah. I don’t now

Have you played with Enchant before

Actually no nvm Black complained about Enchant's serial quickhammering after it happened

[usesPython]

I don't think your Enchant read is real

[usesPython]

I don't think your Enchant read is real

Spoiler: unspoilered gifs bad, side text

What made you go from scumreading Enchant for the hammer to not scumreading them

[usesPython]

I don't think your Enchant read is real

Spoiler: unspoilered gifs bad, side text

What made you go from scumreading Enchant for the hammer to not scumreading them

I agreed with them that all the posts speculating about the lack of might kill felt kind of forced. And I was thinking about voting for Smiley too going into this day & Enchant said the exact same thing. So their views started to line up with mine a lot.

Also I like how they don’t seem to care at all about what people think of their posts lol

Why didn't half the playerlist going "Yeah Enchant always quickhammers d1" factor in to your initial SR of Enchant

[usesPython]

Like your progression feels unrealistically "clean", idk how to explain the vibe. It feels like you're putting out "good" reasons to pivot away from Enchant but those reasons don't really feel real

[usesPython]

Like your progression feels unrealistically "clean", idk how to explain the vibe. It feels like you're putting out "good" reasons to pivot away from Enchant but those reasons don't really feel real

I think it's that your initial Enchant SR doesn't jive with how quickly you got off them with the reasons that you give

[usesPython]

Why didn't half the playerlist going "Yeah Enchant always quickhammers d1" factor in to your initial SR of Enchant

Because it’s crazy to immediately disregard the possibility that someone quick hammering is scum. If they do that all the time they can do it as either alignment when they know people will just see that as typical for them

If that was the case then you'd have NAI'd it, you specifically scumread them for it so this reasoning never went into your initial read there

[usesPython]

wait nvm read that wrong

[usesPython]

Why didn't half the playerlist going "Yeah Enchant always quickhammers d1" factor in to your initial SR of Enchant

Because it’s crazy to immediately disregard the possibility that someone quick hammering is scum. If they do that all the time they can do it as either alignment when they know people will just see that as typical for them

If they do it all the time I don't see how that's not NAI, like yeah they

could

do it as scum but if they do it all the time then why is it scum indicative in

this specific case

as opposed to all the other times they've quickhammered

[usesPython]

Like I don't think anyone was saying Enchant was town for quickhammering

[usesPython]

932 seems like a TMI frustrated scum post

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

It's hard to take these posts seriously when they're put together side by side like this

[usesPython]

I feel like THS could be scum coasting on wagonomics and extended OMGUS but I don't actually have a compelling case there and it's not that strong of a read

[usesPython]

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

Also this is like literally the first time you mentioned Smiley this game, why are they in all your solves

[usesPython]

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

Why Python? I lean town there

It's lazy wagonomics

WorldER, usesPython, SmileyDude1 one is probably scum

Quick hammering day one is a play I would never make as scum because it's naturally going to bring negative attention to myself. Same with placing at e-1. So look in the middle of the bandwagon where your scum vote is not as likely to draw attention and you're more likely to find a scum.

[usesPython]

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

Why is Black/Roden SvT?

[usesPython]

Hot take: scum were off wagon and just silently letting it go through

Unsure if this was brought up earlier, but out of the five people off the Wartortle wagon, who do you think are the scumteam?

I know you scumread BlackStar for it, but that leaves me, Hu Tao, Roden, and THS in consideration for the other two members.

Fullsolves before we've had a single red flip are kinda dumb imo. Blackstar and THS probably flip red and we can go from there once we have stuff to work with

[usesPython]

VOTE: THS

[usesPython]

Gonna policy the next person to AtE btw

[usesPython]

Python's posts feel good for the most part but they're closer to null than townread. I feel this way about Shea too

I’d love to hear more about this—are there specific posts that ping you oddly, or any general patterns?

Eh, not really. It's just general vibes. I feel like they are both kinda selective in what they respond to/push, but that isn't really scummy, it just makes me think they are filtering their thoughts I guess? I think it just boils down to me not trusting them as players because they have burned me as scum before. They feel townie enough to where I don't currently want to fade either of them

We do this every game tho lol? If it's important then we comment, and if you want a comment just ask

[usesPython]

932 seems like a TMI frustrated scum post

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

It's hard to take these posts seriously when they're put together side by side like this

Elaborate?

You're peddling a scum!Roden AtEing for being pushed for the wrong reasons and then immediately go to post a solve of scum!Black/town!Roden

[usesPython]

While you're here

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

Why is Black/Roden SvT?

[usesPython]

VOTE: Blackstar

[usesPython]

Gonna policy the next person to AtE btw

you can be upset that i'm the third person to get mad about being voted but the fact of the matter is, i think i've been rather consistent and i just don't think nareys reason for voting me holds weight.

Being called mafia is not some moral failing and more people need to be reminded to chill out and that it's just a game

[usesPython]

Gonna policy the next person to AtE btw

you can be upset that i'm the third person to get mad about being voted but the fact of the matter is, i think i've been rather consistent and i just don't think nareys reason for voting me holds weight.

Do you think Naerys is town?

[usesPython]

I don't get why people are jumping on OWER for 1067

[usesPython]

alright, I got back from work fairly early, so I'll drop this now and then probably go to sleep, and respond to whatever is posted in response in the morning when I wake up

Spoiler: WHEN YOU JUMP TO IT AND YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH IT AND YOU CAN'T KNOCK IT DOWN

Black vs Roden, I think, is incredibly obvious TvS, and Roden is the very obvious scum in this situation. It feels this D2 Roden came from a completely alternate universe than D1 Roden. His assertion that Black can't vote scum does not track with his own stated reads, where Black's vote has been, and his own (lack of) defense of the Wartortle wagon. Look at the following quotes here:

Spoiler: Quotes Wall

I don't think Black is capable of voting scum unfortunately

Because I know for a fact you don't

huh?

Roden thinks you and OWER are scum but for some reason he seems to think I can't vote for scum

Thats quite weird. Seems like scum was caught being inconsistent.

Y'all said this about Wartortle and he flipped town. Wake up.

Everyone hop on. I'm driving this wagon off the cliff

Vote this off tomorrow so this slot doesn't make us lose in ELO please

If you were to replace into this game right now, and the first posts you saw were these, you'd think that Roden would've been hard defending Wartortle D1 and heavily against his elim. This isn't true to reality though, because if we look at his ISO D1:

Spoiler: Quotes Wall the 2nd

Sorry, I had trouble connecting to the site the last couple days. I had caught up when it was 15 pages and I'm just going to give my thoughts from there. As of now I'll be playing in the present and just catch up over the night phase.

Smiley: Seemed odd early on but I agreed with a lot of his posts. 210 and 353 are posts I especially liked and thought were townie.

Hu Tao: A lot of nothing for awhile, but I think that's townie for her judging by past experience. Which maybe sounds mean and I don't intend to mean it that way, but I've seen them be very active/proactive as scum and I don't think their attitude matches their scum games so far.

Naerys: I don't agree with most of the reasoning she's given for her reads. 152 is the only post I kinda like, but even then she only null reads Star later on, which is just off to me. I hate the Wartortle and Smiley reads.

Wiz: Idk why this player has been getting scum read, and I don't agree with the previous player in my slot. Wiz has been pretty solvey all game, and he's been one of the most active players. This game has been too inactive for scum to actively decide to put so much attention on themself like he has.

Wartortle: A self proclaimed town leader that I'm fine with town binning for now. Depending on flips, I could see him potentially being a power wolf, but it feels very unlikely.

Enchant: Pass.

Heip: Hard to follow what's going on with him, but he looks like lim bait. Going on the backburner for later.

Hold: I got genuine townie outrage from him and feel some empathy there. I think this is just town.

OWER: 345 rang alarm bells for me, it read like panicked scum who was scrambling around all of the replace-ins. The fact he moved his vote later on solidifies this for me.

Star: Has some LAMIST posts that I didn't like. I have a scum lean here but it's based mostly on vibes.

Knott: Nothing to comment on. I'm hoping Shea town tells.

Python: I like posts 125 and 327, I feel fine setting them aside as town.

VOTE: Naerys

Explain maybe?

Your vote on Naerys feels opportunistic. When reading your catchup post it feels like you mainly scumread her for having bad reads which isn't even really scum indicative. When I compare your read on her to OWER and to an extent BlackStar I feel like your vote should have gone to one of the latter two, but instead it goes on Naerys who just so happens to be one of the leading wagons

Nothing in your catchup gave me enough town vibes to make me reconsider my scumlean on DE

Initially I had an issue with your readslist because I thought it was ordered and that didn't match your reads but looking at it in more detail, it seems like you just threw names into the piles without ordering them. Correct me if I'm wrong here

Sorry, I thought I'd made it clear but I mainly scum read her for the

reasoning

she gave for her reads, not because she had bad reads. I specifically hate the Smiley read because I think he'd done enough to not be a null slot, and I hate the Wartortle scum read because it had zero lead up to it and it didn't match up with their prior interactions.

I would vote OWER, but 1) I haven't fully caught up and I want to know the context of why he changed his tune about his Wiz, 2) I don't have enough buy in and good will to start a brand new wagon two days before deadline, and 3) I still think Naerys is scum, and of my three scum reads she's the most likely slot I can successfully vote out.

As far as opportunism, I don't really understand this point. If I'm scum making up scum reads, voting Wartortle is the optimal play regardless of his alignment. If he's town, he's a much better vote than Naerys since that furthers the gap from my own potential wagon, and if Naerys is also town who is LHF then I'd want to keep her around for the next Day phase. If Wartortle is scum, the best play is for us to commit to scum theatre so one of us gains town cred if the other flips.

Also yeah, my reads list isn't ordered, but only because it isn't final yet.

For what it's worth, if this does flip town I don't think it was a scum-driven wagon. It feels like it built up naturally.

The first two quotes are like...the most Roden ever offered in defense of Wartortle, and the last one is almost outright an endorsement of the wagon. Roden's read on Wartortle is also incredibly hedgy, stating a weak TR on the slot while also proclaiming he could see him being a "power wolf". Roden also does basically nothing to push his "preferred alternative" (Naerys) at all D1. His readslist, initial vote, and some weak justification offered

almost entirely in defense of himself

is the most he ever does to try and push Naerys D1.

These two narratives are completely incongruous with one another and the scum motivation here should be obvious: Scum lets a town-led miselim through while off-wagon, then beats Town over the head D2 with the fact of their mislim to try and gain some towncred off of an "I told you so" narrative. Except in this case Roden didn't even bother to try and pretend he wasn't going to let the Wartortle elim go through in the first place.

The rest of the fight is just theatre on Roden's part:

Spoiler: Quotes Wall the 3rd

Woah calm down, Black

I mean the guy is purposely being snarky and rude just to piss me off and shade me. Mission accomplished. I'm not personally attacking him, I just said I don't give a fuck if he thinks my response is real or not

Yeah it's shit like this why I'm being snarky

I can't have a single conversation with you without you twisting what I say as being scum-motivated

Like every time I tried to talk to you yesterday you could only think up worlds where I'm scum no matter what I was trying to say or whatever alignment Wartortle would flip

And you're still doing that today

I don't think Black is capable of voting scum unfortunately

First of all...rude

Second, you think Naerys, OWER, and Enchant are all town? Because I know for a fact you don't. So why the shade?

Who are you voting

You said I'm not capable of voting scum, which implies you don't think I've voted for scum this game. So yeah this is pure shade and I think you know I'm town

I'm telling you to stop fucking around with bad votes and pointless shade

It's Day 2 and you're voting someone you barely have a case on. Do you seriously have so little information that you can't formulate a legitimate case? Do you find it impossible to work with other people and try to reset after making a bad mis-elim go through?

Idk what your problem is but your attitude is atrocious and your ego is embarrassing

These potshots are utterly divorced from the reality of the game, especially the first one. Go back and read those quotes where Roden talks to Black D1. The responses from both players are civil, and in the context of Black's 692, 696 and 697 the frustration coming from Roden seems incredibly exaggerated and out of proportion. Black has been incredibly transparent with the DE/Roden read, both that she had a scumlean on him and that her read was also not entirely set in stone. If you want to say that Roden's anger here comes from being voted by Black, I'd counter that he should reasonably have forseen this possibility from his interactions with her D1 and the fact that there was no NK from which to do NKA that could've affected Black's reads. The only thing that could've affected Black's reads was Wartortle's flip, but reading Black's ISO I think Black made it clear her read on Wartortle was divorced associatives-wise from her read on DE/Roden.

But the real kicker is, if you read these in a vacuum once again, it looks like Roden is a frustrated townie yelling at a person who he also thinks is a townie. Then:

Spoiler: Quotes Wall the 4th

Honestly I can't even town clear you Black for the way you're acting here because this isn't even the third time that I've pissed off scum so badly that they want me dead

Granted...they all won afterwards because everyone town read their genuine anger and played it up even after my mis-elim

Yeah it's shit like this why I'm being snarky

I can't have a single conversation with you without you twisting what I say as being scum-motivated

Like every time I tried to talk to you yesterday you could only think up worlds where I'm scum no matter what I was trying to say or whatever alignment Wartortle would flip

And you're still doing that today

That's cap. I was clearly willing to re-evaluate in 697 and I even admitted I was wrong about one of my points in that post. But whatever dude

Yet you voted me without trying to engage with me first...interesting...

VOTE: Black

SUDDENLY WE FLIP GEARS COMPLETELY.

On the weakest, most incredibly reachy progression possible, which somehow even overrides his stated SR and vote on me beforehand. Go through Roden's ISO yourself and find where he

ever

states even a nominal suspicious of Black's slot, and you won't find until the literal 2 last posts he made in this argument. I think Roden realized that people were voting Black on (what I think is a) weak case (the idea that Black "goaded" Naerys into voting so Enchant would hammer) and realized he could twist it into trying to start something on Black (remember that at this point in the argument Enchant and BlackStar were still voting Black). Or just to throw it out there to try and improve his image and make it look like a TvT. The point is that I don't think this vote here comes from town.

I don't think any of Roden's part in this conversation comes from Town.

I think the entirety of Roden's posts here are about making himself look good and not about actual scumhunting.

I don't know how to end this wall.

VOTE: Roden

wow thats a lotta words, too bad im not readin em

[usesPython]

I don't get why people are jumping on OWER for 1067

I just wanted a wagon and I don't really care if it's on OWER or Roden. In this situation at least OWER is putting in effort (and in a respectful way) so a Roden wagon it is

Have you considered a Blackstar wagon

[usesPython]

Can we get a vote count last one is like 10 pages old

[usesPython]

VOTE: Roden

I don't care and I lost interest, just kill Black tomorrow

Why is Black scum

[usesPython]

VOTE: Roden

I don't care and I lost interest, just kill Black tomorrow

Why is Black scum

And like can we get your other reads?

[usesPython]

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

[usesPython]

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

Like 1.2 they're crossvoting, 1.3 OWER voting wiz for reasons I don't remember, 1.5 OWER voting THS

with you

, and 1.7 is the flip

[usesPython]

like legit don't get your wagonomics here

[usesPython]

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

All 3 scum outside of the wagon? Possible, but i dont believe that

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

[usesPython]

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

What?

You come out with the conclusion that THS comes out better than OWER. Every votecount but the last is either NAI or should make OWER look

better

from your point of view so since you drop them so much lower than THS the only conclusion we can make is that you think being off wagon is so +town to the extent that scum basically aren't off wagon

[usesPython]

It's 7 to lim but it's also an Enchant game so 5 votes is E-1

[usesPython]

You come out with the conclusion that THS comes out better than OWER. Every votecount but the last is either NAI or should make OWER look better from your point of view so since you drop them so much lower than THS the only conclusion we can make is that you think being off wagon is so +town to the extent that scum basically aren't off wagon

Wtf

Explain your wagonomics then cause we don't get it

[usesPython]

Like what about those votecounts makes OWER come out worse than THS

[usesPython]

Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics

We should policy the next person to do VCA

[usesPython]

Why you think i would hammer Roden?

Hmm true I guess Roden would get the 6 vote E-1 treatment since you townread them

[usesPython]

Why you think i would hammer Roden?

Hmm true I guess Roden would get the 6 vote E-1 treatment since you townread them

You acknowlidge that i am not special.

That ANY person can hammer, if they believe Roden is mafia (Which i completely encourage you)? And to prevent it you can just keep at 5 which costs you NOTHING?

I questioned why you think i hammer roden, not why would't you go for 6.

We're saying you wouldn't autohammer Roden since you townread them

[usesPython]

Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics Wagonomics

We should policy the next person to do VCA

I'm a firm believer in VCA

Don't tempt me

[usesPython]

Sing a new song...I'm still establishing reads on the three people in the center of the bandwagon (and considering the fact that Black was on it too, and doesn't seem like the type of player who would be afraid to lead a bandwagon as scum)...its not as basic thought process as you're making it out to be.

I'd say you can greatly expand on your reads there without just relying on VCA as the sole basis of the read. You think scum are in the middle cause they're scared of drawing attention? Great, ISO those people and build up a psych profile to see if they'd actually be scared of drawing attention as scum there or if they're like us and don't actually give a shit where in the wagon they landed.

If the people you're VCAing aren't scared of drawing attention to their vote the entire basis of your read goes out the window but we haven't seen you really do anything on that front?

[usesPython]

I like VCA, people who use it are especially prone to be trolled.

Wanna extended quickhammer someone?

[usesPython]

Python, I fear y’all are going to have a lot of policy votes if you keep adding more conditions on.

Why do you care?

1. Can’t do VCA on someone who policy votes a lot of different things.

2. It dilutes the limiting power of a policy vote—people won’t respect the vote if they know someone else will catch it soon after.

3. It’s kind of funny.

I literally have 0 clue who our vote is on rn without checking, I'd be surprised if anyone could VCA us with any sort of reliability

[usesPython]

I literally have 0 clue who our vote is on rn without checking, I'd be surprised if anyone could VCA us with any sort of reliability

How do you not know who your vote is on?

We're just that good

[usesPython]

I like VCA, people who use it are especially prone to be trolled.

Wanna extended quickhammer someone?

Who

idk, whoever would be funniest

[usesPython]

Having zero clue who your vote is on sounds wild and I don't really believe that. I don't think python is that blase when it comes to the game

I mean we literally have a notes PT for exactly this kind of stuff, if I dropped the vote myself I'd probably remember it here but I didn't so :shrug:

[usesPython]

I like VCA, people who use it are especially prone to be trolled.

Wanna extended quickhammer someone?

Who

idk, whoever would be funniest

You would be funniest, just consider irony.

True that would be pretty funny, let's do it

[usesPython]

scum is some bullshit like roden/python/hu tao

idk Roden seems to be getting run up

[usesPython]

Hot take: d1 deadsheeping is dumb as hell cause if they were actually good at mafia they wouldn't be dead

[usesPython]

scum is some bullshit like roden/python/hu tao

idk Roden seems to be getting run up

4 votes and they could all easily be townies. There's been resistance to the wagon too

We're saying that Wartle is getting their reads pushed instead of everyone forgetting

[usesPython]

poggers

[usesPython]

Quick Dann make us a double voter so we can policy two people at once

[usesPython]

UNVOTE:

[usesPython]

up you've been awfully quiet too. What do you think about stuff.

wdym quiet, we post plenty

[usesPython]

I think it's TvT I just also want the two of you dead

[usesPython]

VOTE: Blackstar

Naerys and Black wanna hop on?

[usesPython]

I think it's TvT I just also want the two of you dead

Rude

VOTE: Blackstar

Naerys and Black wanna hop on?

Not really

Why is your OWER townread so strong? Did I ask you this already? I'm tired

It's not, you did, and we reassessed

[usesPython]

We don't have the mental energy to read a wallcase so we'd rather push someone we're scumreading over a shrug exe

[usesPython]

Sudden paranoia that scum are using the split Hu Tao/Naerys/Python votes to build up a wagon and force a compromise lim, just gonna let that vibe pass us over

[usesPython]

Sudden paranoia that scum are using the split Hu Tao/Naerys/Python votes to build up a wagon and force a compromise lim, just gonna let that vibe pass us over

I'd add THS in that vibe too maybe

[usesPython]

I'd add THS in that vibe too maybe

Wait nvm they moved their vote somewhere that isn't just a solo wagon

[usesPython]

Actually maybe I should stick to my guns and go wiz first

Annie is locktown

I'll trust this for now but thoughts on naerys?

Can you explain why do you suspect me?

Based on everything I said end of day yesterday it looked like you were setting up

A Naerys wagon probably isn't happening today, who else do you think is scum

[usesPython]

I feel like scum have probably wormed their way into one of the AtEfests at this point but I think even more so that there's scum just sitting on the sidelines and letting town implode

[usesPython]

VOTE: Smiley

[usesPython]

You know how I feel about meta so why would I blindly believe your weak meta read on OWER? You even said yourself you could be wrong. Like what?

Didn't you already use meta as a reason to go from scumreading THS to townreading them this game? Feels like a weird take

[usesPython]

UNVOTE:

[usesPython]

Kinda have this gut feeling that this is a losing gamestate. All the fights feel TvT and every time we push on the lurkers they give decent responses but there's also 0 town cohesion and half the playerlist is off doing their own thing

[usesPython]

Who wants to towncore

[usesPython]

Town

: SmileyDude1, usesPython, TheHoldSteady

Townlean

:

Black

,

BlackStar

, Naerys

Null

: Enchant

Scumlean

:

Thestatusquo

, OutWorldER

Scum

:

Hu Tao

, Roden

What's the Smiley/THS case?

[usesPython]

BlackStar

: He’s acting really similar to our previous game—he was limbait there, and I fear he’s limbait here as well. I feel confident in townleaning him for that reason, though I can’t say I agree with a good amount of his reads (which is worrying, to be honest).

Did you agree with his reads in that last game?

[usesPython]

I am pretty bored so tell you what, i sell my vote to Naerys.

Cant believe you'd two time us like that

[usesPython]

Kinda have this gut feeling that this is a losing gamestate. All the fights feel TvT and every time we push on the lurkers they give decent responses but there's also 0 town cohesion and half the playerlist is off doing their own thing

So how about everyone gives a lim pool of three and we'll consolidate from there?

Blackstar but that read's kinda stale and we should probably read his latest stuff

Wouldn't stop a Hu Tao/Naerys wagon

We're willing to consolidate on a wagon if one of our townreads is pushing someone we're not townreading

[usesPython]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[usesPython]

Not that impressed with Hu Tao's catchup tbh

[usesPython]

OWER, Enchant, Hu

VOTE: Hu Tao.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Can y'all like wait for the other half of the players to check in

These posts don't add up. You say I'm in your limpool but want others to show up after 2 votes? Sus

Black pretty clearly wants an OWER lim with you as a compromise, what is this pointless shade

[usesPython]

Python, I fear y’all are going to have a lot of policy votes if you keep adding more conditions on.

Why do you care?

This is wiz acting as town

VOTE: ower

I'll go here for now since I don't think naerys or

wiz

happens

[usesPython]

I'm a doctor

If you're claiming you might as well fullclaim

[usesPython]

I'm a doctor

If you're claiming you might as well fullclaim

I'm a doctor what else is there to claim?

Target cause you're claim isn't a mech clear even with the lack of nightkill

[usesPython]

Oh I forgot there wasn't a night kill. I'm not a doctor. Never mind.

We're 1-shot BP so yeah the lack of nightkill isn't a mech clear

[usesPython]

Setup spec wise the only way Doctor and 1-shot Bulletproof make sense in the same game together is if Mafia have a Strongman. Since there was no nightkill then in that scenario it'd imply they're either gated or Mafia have a safer way to kill people such as Ninja. Can we get your target so that we can start speculating on how much a Python NK makes sense over NKing your target?

-Nameless

[usesPython]

Oh I forgot there wasn't a night kill. I'm not a doctor. Never mind.

Thought that was sarcasm

[usesPython]

Kinda really wanna fade Hu Tao over this tbh

[usesPython]

Can people stop throwing for literally no reason

[usesPython]

So THS is the Hu Tao partner

[usesPython]

THS rn has that slimy "Oh shit my partner did something dumb" playing both sides vibe going on where he "has" to react to the doctor claim but also doesn't really wanna have that be the focus of the thread while trying to pull back to the OWER lim

[usesPython]

VOTE: OWER

I don't know why scum!Hu would claim Doc here and then back off right away instead of just faking a target. Doesn't really make sense to me the more I think about it

She backed off cause we were very clearly softing that we had something to do the lack of nightkill and therefore didn't need to keep the claim anymore since it already forced a cc

[usesPython]

Like it was very obviously shaping up to be a 1v1 with us, do you actually think Hu Tao wins that?

[usesPython]

VOTE: OWER

I don't know why scum!Hu would claim Doc here and then back off right away instead of just faking a target. Doesn't really make sense to me the more I think about it

She backed off cause we were very clearly softing that we had something to do the lack of nightkill and therefore didn't need to keep the claim anymore since it already forced a cc

I still don't think scum goes "lol I'm not a Doc" even after seeing your claim. Maybe I'm wrong

Literally what is the alternative, get into a losing 1v1?

[usesPython]

Like can we maybe

not

let people get away with openwolfing like this

[usesPython]

VOTE: OWER

I don't know why scum!Hu would claim Doc here and then back off right away instead of just faking a target. Doesn't really make sense to me the more I think about it

She backed off cause we were very clearly softing that we had something to do the lack of nightkill and therefore didn't need to keep the claim anymore since it already forced a cc

I still don't think scum goes "lol I'm not a Doc" even after seeing your claim. Maybe I'm wrong

Literally what is the alternative, get into a losing 1v1?

Also she backed off

before

we claimed 1-Shot BP, for all she knew we were about to straight up claim Doctor

[usesPython]

I'm a doctor

If you're claiming you might as well fullclaim

I'm a doctor what else is there to claim?

Target cause you're claim isn't a mech clear even with the lack of nightkill

We're literally saying that a doctor claim after a no kill isn't a mech clear and asking for a fullclaim, how is that not an obvious soft

[usesPython]

Like if we didn't have something to do with it we'd be reacting with "ok then" instead of pushing that hard

[usesPython]

To me it just seems like you're considering other roles in the game that could have prevented the kill. It's not clear to me and probably not to anyone else that isn't great at noticing that type of thing

Do you actually think a VT here would be pushing a Doctor claim this hard after a no kill happened?

[usesPython]

Like scum!Hu could have just picked a random townie to say that they protected and it would give them a much higher chance of survival than saying "lol jk I lied"

Again, if she picks a random townie then that's almost a guaranteed 1v1 right there and I don't think she wins that against us. Backing off like this at least gives her a chance of making it through the day

[usesPython]

Maybe you're right python. I want to trust my gut here though

I think if you're trusting a gut read hard enough to give Hu Tao a pass here you might be too tunneled