Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

Whats this all about ?

I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Free real estate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

Whats this all about ?

I play a game Honkai Star Rail and the name Hu Tao reminds me of other Chinese names from that game so I picked them

hu tao is from genshin

I haven't played any of the other hoyo games but that makes sense if the pfp is of the character hu tao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yo where is everyone?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also @Altaria tell me about Drew

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And Umlaut should be voting Drew why?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

That's generous.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

That's generous.

what's your interpretation of it?

It looks pretty clearly like it was RVS

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Wait is "she" in this post Hu Tao and not me? I misread that if so

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I thought I was she and that the vote in question was Altaria's first vote on Doctor Drew which is obviously RVS which is why I was offended you thought I thought your vote was not RVS.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i guess i can see a world where she wasn't sure if it was an rvs vote and was trying to figure that out

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Umlaut

why is kyouko scum for asking about my drew read?

Asking about your Drew read though - you're saying that as of post 33 you have a read on Drew? That seems hard to believe, and even if it were the case that from that short exchange you two had, you garnered a read, I would expect some kind of material response to why Umlaut should be voting drew, not "because he's scum" or maybe even a material response when I asked you to tell me about Drew. Something feels off here

VOTE: Altaria

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why call it "my drew read" in 49 though?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

because you were asking for my read on drew

I can see how you get to that verbiage but it's not what I was asking. I didn't presume to think you had an actual read, it was just banter. What concerned me is you later called it a read. I think that's due to my meaning being misunderstood more than anything though based on this last reply. I don't think there's any point in my continuing to nitpick on this.

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think I've got any good vibes yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Galron I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think that makes the votes like this, with 6 to eliminate that is E-2 Drew

unofficial vc

DragonEater70 (3): Doctor Drew, Altaria, umlaut
Altaria (2): Hu Tao, geraintm
Doctor Drew (4): gob, Aliana, DragonEater70,ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (1): Celebloki

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: dragon eater

interesting that was not the longest wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

why

I think you're hard pocketed tbh - I don't think Drew's been that helpful for how much he's posting and I think his vote on Dragon felt very "gotcha" and at the same time like he's trying to dictate how Dragon should be voting. I don't really think anyone should be dictating at this stage, nobody has the towncred for it, and I think Drew is trying to powerwolf here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: dragon eater

interesting that was not the longest wagon

my thoughts exactly

VOTE: Doctor Drew

why

I think you're hard pocketed tbh - I don't think Drew's been that helpful for how much he's posting and I think his vote on Dragon felt very "gotcha" and at the same time like he's trying to dictate how Dragon should be voting. I don't really think anyone should be dictating at this stage, nobody has the towncred for it, and I think Drew is trying to powerwolf here

why do you think drew is pocketing me and not dragon?

Are you asking why I think Drew is pocketing you and not pocketing Dragon?
Or are you asking why I think Drew is pocketing you and why I don't think Dragon is pocketing you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well after I was pinged by the Drew vote that felt "gotcha" to me I went and looked back at Drew's posting, not so much at Dragon's, so if it's there I didn't see it. I'll look shortly.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

wait where did the second "n" go? is this a mandela effect

You see, you aren't the only Alianna alt this game

I think this is the only post that could be construed as buddying/pocketing. Yes Dragon asserts an early TR on you but he isn't hamming it up for you or even really that focused on you or what you're doing when compared with other slots. With Drew it feels like a performance.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I see you also wanted to see where I see Drew is pocketing you, I assumed that was obvious and the focus of your question was on Dragon. That will have to wait until after lunch

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Many of these posts are going to seem innocuous on their own but must be viewed as a whole to paint the picture I'm seeing here.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

This feels like a name I would call Alianna.

You are too easy to expose, Amaretto

The nicknaming is something that was exclusive to your slot before the real Aliana replaced in, and by itself is a way of getting more friendly. Not AI by itself but when he's only nicknaming you it looks odd/intentional.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

This feels like a name I would call Alianna.

You are too easy to expose, Amaretto

i will be your alianna as long as it makes you think i'm town and you'll let me pocket you

Well I am not gonna think you are town if you are voting me, Angola

Another nickname and it's in a joking tone, but the message itself if you strip the tone is openly scummy and maybe the joking tone is just a mask here. That's what I'm thinking when piecing this all together.

but you're scum

i think alianna would vote for scum if she were town here

Alianna wouldn't be so sure of herself.

So maybe you are the scum!!

I could say pretty much the same thing I did about the last post, about this post as well. Still joking (and this is RVS, so sure) but he's sort of latched onto telling you he is not scum which is like ??? It's a little too much for me.

Alvarium really is off here, but I so am I.

VOTE: Gob

This is presumably about 35 wherein you (Altaria) vote gob but maybe is somehow in reference to 32 (doubtful). It's just a nonsense post - 'you're off [the mark] here, [but I'll sheep you anyways]'. Makes a lot more sense when you look at it from scum!Drew POV where this is an attempt at buddying up and voting with you but also it's a subtle negging. Like it may not feel that way because Drew's joking around with you but that's what the words are pointing to and it feels like he's more focused on taking control of you than finding scum.

Altaria locktown

More from me tomorrow.

why though?

I feel like Dragon is a hot take sort of player

i mean he's right about me but i would like to see how he got there

I will ask in our PT how he got there and get back to you.

And when someone else is extending a townread to you Drew has to get in on it, like he should be the only one there for you. Feels like that is the sole purpose of his interactions with you, to manipulate your perception of him. It does not look to me like he is sorting you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i find it a little strange how both kyouko and dragon came in with the "you're being pocketed by drew" angle. if one of these flips scum I would be inclined to believe the other could also be in that pt

288 is almost all quotes about Aliana btw so if we were buds idk if he mistakes you two. Probably makes him not buds with either of you though if he is scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i find it a little strange how both kyouko and dragon came in with the "you're being pocketed by drew" angle. if one of these flips scum I would be inclined to believe the other could also be in that pt

288 is almost all quotes about Aliana btw so if we were buds idk if he mistakes you two. Probably makes him not buds with either of you though if he is scum

This is about DragonEater btw, for the ISO divers

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

Do you play super smash brothers melee?

I would like to hear this towntell later in the game. I feel like I have many tells, but most people do not read me critically. Which is by design.

I used to, but not anymore.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm actually getting a lot of deja vu reading this game from Open 890. Except this time instead of Drew using Alianna as his mod audience, he can interact directly with her. And the vibe between DE and Drew seems similar too.

What was the vibe like and how is it feeling similar here? I started reading on my phone and I'm not picking up on that at all really.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe I need to try deeper into 890 though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Get deeper* autocorrect

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Dragon

Why are you voting Dragon Hu?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think we need a flip. This game seems ro be the same conversation in different ways to me.

Hadn't seen this - is this the reason?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Who do you townread?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No one

Maybe Drew, since I don't read him as scum.

Ok fair enough, that's fine then. I don't think Drew is likely to happen toDay at this point so I'll concede there. And I think your reasoning is acceptable, was a little suspicious about how you came to be voting Dragon.

I'll vote Umlaut - don't want to see gob dead. There seems to be interest here and I don't think the expressed interest is unwarranted.
VOTE: Umlaut

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sigh, I got my wires crossed and thought 372 was you and not Kyouko.

So my question is actually for

@Kyouko

, why don't you think Drew is a possibility today? I know I'm the only one voting him right this second but he had a pretty sizeable wagon going, why not push for what you want with three days still on the clock?

Well I've made my case on Drew and while it was convincing for some (you, maybe one other), I seem to recall other people acknowledging it and disagreeing with the conclusion, calling it more NAI than scum-indicative. Drew's wagon reached an apex of 4 (e-2) and when geraintm voted Dragon, bringing the wagons to a tie, I think is where the momentum stopped. I think if geraintm had voted the largest wagon on Drew and E-1ed him this day might have gone differently. Maybe that wasn't accidental by geraintm. Then we got an unvote from Dragon and the wagon at that point I think was definitely dead when it lost the vote from the player it was counter to. It doesn't help to have Celebloki not contributing at this point, but iirc one of the few things he did comment on is that he gets deja vu vibes from Drew vs Dragon from when Drew was Town and Dragon was scum. So at one point 8/10 players were voting for one of Drew/Dragon and people seemed firmly in one camp or the other. One of the two not voting those 2 was leaning more toward Dragon if push came to shove I think. So yeah, I don't think Drew is happening toDay.

I'm not pushing more for it now because I would just be repeating the same arguments that I've already made and I'm pretty sure everyone has read them and that's how we got the wagons to 4-4 in the first place. I don't think continuing to push Drew toDay will result in his flip so I'll focus my efforts elsewhere for toDay and we will have associatives to work with toMorrow.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Kyouko

Also interested in your read on Dragon, looking through your ISO I see some commentary on other people's votes there but not much on Dragon himself.

As for Dragon, nothing has pinged me so far and he is one of the more active posters (but it's not shitposting). I think he is probably town simply because he has been active and engaged, and if he is scum it is difficult to maintain that level of activity and engagement without getting caught.

I haven't looked into why people are voting for Dragon yet, as I've been more focused on Drew, but I know nobody has posted anything about Dragon that was persuasive enough to catch my eye while I have been playing from my phone.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Kyouko

Also interested in your read on Dragon, looking through your ISO I see some commentary on other people's votes there but not much on Dragon himself.

As for Dragon, nothing has pinged me so far and he is one of the more active posters (but it's not shitposting). I think he is probably town simply because he has been active and engaged, and if he is scum it is difficult to maintain that level of activity and engagement without getting caught.

I haven't looked into why people are voting for Dragon yet, as I've been more focused on Drew, but I know nobody has posted anything about Dragon that was persuasive enough to catch my eye while I have been playing from my phone.

Well thanks for the subtle shade on me.

Why is someone town because they are active and engaged, and why is someone not town for shit posting?

I didn't say either of those things, you are inferring a different meaning. Being active and engaged is

more likely

to come from town than scum in my experience. It is also my experience that scum can replicate this, but to do so consistently throughout a game is something that only the best scum players can do. Because of this, I choose not to push for D1 eliminations of players that are active but to me still feel nullish.

I mentioned shitposting because I was specifying that activity without content (shitposting) is not the type of activity of a nullish player that I will give a D1 pass to.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kyouko can we get a list of your reads?

I don't feel strongly enough about anything to leave it behind during twilight in case of my death, with the exception of my Drew SR which is known at this point.

I think Dragon is flipping town here and if he comes up scum I'll need to reevaluate.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also we blazin it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Day 1 VC 6:

DragonEater70 (5 [E-1]): Doctor Drew, Altaria, geraintm, Hu Tao, Celebloki
Umlaut (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Aliana
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (1): DragonEater70

Not voting (1): gob

Gonna follow this up with some intermediary VCs cuz something feels fishy about what I just read

Dragon claims in 431. Altaria swaps to gob in 432. Next Celebloki swaps in 436 after Altaria and Dragon both say they're okay with either gob or umlaut.
Next Hu Tao and then Alianna vote gob in 440 and 441 (ali says this is E-1), then in 442 Drew intents to hammer. 440 and 442 are 19 minutes apart
Umlaut at 445 voices he is not going to vote gob

intermediate VC as of 445

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (5 [E-1]): DragonEater70, Altaria, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

When Umlaut moves for Hu Tao instead of gob in 446, Altaria quickly follows Umlaut's reasoning to Hu Tao but previously was saying she was okay with Umlaut/gob. The move to Hu Tao seems inconsistent with Altaria's play so far. Then Drew says the first thing he's said all game that has really townpinged me in 449

current votes

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Hu Tao (2): Umlaut, Altaria
gob (4): DragonEater70, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

Hu tao, Celebloki, and Altaria were on both Dragon's and gob's E-1 wagons, feels like Altaria is not treating everyone equally here since she's now sheeping her previous POE'd lim on Hu Tao while also "liking" Celebloki (this is an older read but I dont see how Celebloki is any different than Hu Tao here, or from me, gob, or Alianna for that matter. We all want a lim that is not one of the people we think is town and as we approach deadline people are getting more aggressive with their votes. Even Altaria is doing this, so pushing Hu Tao for it is not a good look imo)

VOTE: Altaria

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

so what was this about?

It's either a scumtell or NAI, more likely NAI

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

???

He's a claimed JK. Scum shoots him if he's town, and he cant target himself. Therefore.he probably targeted the killer and stopped them from killing

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

so what was this about?

It's either a scumtell or NAI, more likely NAI

can you tell us what it was

No, I still want to keep it to myself in case it's a scumtell.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How does it work if JK keeps scum but scum kills JK? I thought scum kills JK in that scenario?

I'm actually not sure about the order of events. I'm sure it's on the wiki somewhere

With NAR and no other actions the killing action is roleblocked by the Jailkeep action

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Plot twist - we're in a 2 scum game, dragon went v/la overnight and accidentally failed to submit the kill :>

[ssbm_Kyouko]

(I have not checked Dragon's ego)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I guess it's not much of a plot twist if there are 2 scum that's my b, I was phoneposting and not thinking too hard about this game until Dragon comes back

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think we no lim and let DE decide if he wants to JK Altaria again, JK someone else, or take no action. This way if DE is town here scum have to guess whether they should no kill or not, because if DE no acts and there is no kill it becomes likelier the first night was a frame-up using no kill.

If DE is scum that no killed to frame altaria this doesn't really change anything

VOTE: no elimination

[ssbm_Kyouko]

if town!DE dies and flips JK we'll have to eliminate Altaria anyways, but this forces scum to use a nightkill to kill DE instead of making town use 2 lims to kill DE and Altaria

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am claiming a non-specific PR that I think supports the lazy vig claim on balance

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think it's mechanically probable that you are town which means either dragon is lying scum or he stopped you from being killed last Night. If he stopped you from dying we should not waste the time we've gained by no-eliminating

[ssbm_Kyouko]

From D1 I thought my role would support a Vigilante on balance but that felt like it would be too swingy/powerful for town if it were in the game ungated. Lazy Vig makes a lot of sense to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My role is also why I so confidently declined to comment on my tell on gob

[ssbm_Kyouko]

just yeet someone else and have dragon continue to JK Black, if she is scum she still won't be able to shoot while jailed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Her claim makes sense mechanically with mine and I think we've established that Black and I can't be scum together, not only on numbers (3 scum in 10p is a lot), but it doesn't make sense for me to try to steer a wagon off of a flipped Goon onto a different teammate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I'm with this, E-2:

VOTE: Umlaut

@mod you have Random Nurse back in the VC for D2 btw, or at least you did last I looked

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think scum no killed to frame Black and her claim backfired on them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: gob
Seems fine

Umlaut is at E-1

If you catch my drift

[ssbm_Kyouko]

From D1 I thought my role would support a Vigilante on balance but that felt like it would be too swingy/powerful for town if it were in the game ungated. Lazy Vig makes a lot of sense to me

I realize we don't know what scum have, but from your perspective, is it plausible that both Dragon and Black are trueclaiming?

Yes. I had a detailed response but I think it's anti-town to provide more commentary

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My role is harder to play around for scum if it is not disclosed to them and claiming it for town isn't going to provide anything useful at this time

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think with it being presumably 8-1 right now we have 6-1, 4-1, 2-1... 3 eliminations before ELO. We can think about massclaiming D3 or D4 I think. If we run up a wagon toDay that leads to a PR claim that seems unlikely to be real, maybe then we can massclaim toDay, but I doubt we get more than VT claims at this point. Maybe there is one more TPR depending on if the last scum has a strong role or is just a goon/weak PR

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just had an idea, with Mafia not being multitasking maybe they are a JOAT that investigated or something last Night

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Dragon is town it would be an opportunity to use the investigation while at the same time framing the JK target.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Doesn't get better than that after the goon died

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe like a roleblocker/doctor/jailkeeper, somekind of interference role + rolecop + strongman

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mine

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I try to be patient and then I lose it because I want to post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not going to get more specific about my claim toDay unless I think it counters someone else's claim. I also think if Dragon has modifiers he should not claim them in this massclaim.

I stand by everything I've said so far about my role though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Isn't town JK versus mafia RB 2/3rds of one of the setups that used to get used for Newbies? It was that 3x3 grid of roles

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh you said "and both town" I just saw the first part and immediately my brain went to the newbie setup

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I came, I read, I posted.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

*sigh*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

DragonEater70

Umlaut
Celebloki
geraintm

Doctor Drew

Altaria

Hu Tao
Alianna

Feel like these are 3 I can confidently strike from POE, maybe geraintm too but I'm not really sure what he's like as scum.

Gob died like this: gob (6 [HAMMERED]): DragonEater70, Celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana, Altaria, geraintm

Maybe it is as easy as Umlaut, if it's not him then somebody bussed or I'm wrong on Drew but I dont think that's the case.

Going to unvote in case Umlaut is town so he has time for input but I'm still on him in spirit
UNVOTE:

Game has just stagnated and if it's because scum are content with umlaut I dont want the hammer to come now things are starting up again.

I don't give geraintm credit in terms of not bussing here because Drew had intented already. Going to examine Celebloki, Alianna, and Hu Tao votes/trajectory on gob first though because I can recall how geraintm hammered without a reread

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah deadline is still 6 days out I wanna inspect that gob wagon for bussing before we kill umlaut in case it's not him, and umlaut if it's not you maybe you could do the same

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I could see it being celebloki, going to look at the other 2 now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I mean could be aliana too

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So I dont like hu tao's early iso too much but I dont see them as bussing gob here. There's a possibility they genuinely just had a hard time forming reads early on.

Goodnight sweet scum

VOTE: Umlaut

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is 3 scum an actual possibility in this setup?

Unlikely, that could lead to D2 ELO if we have mislim on not!vig>2 town NKs from vig and factional kill

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well that would be 4:3 D2, guess I'm not considering that Dragon can stop scum's kill and you can vig in that scenario. It's like "ELO if the night doesn't go super well" in that situation

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I skimmed, waiting for dragon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My role is harder to play around for scum if it is not disclosed to them and claiming it for town isn't going to provide anything useful at this time

I'm not going to get more specific about my claim toDay unless I think it counters someone else's claim. I also think if Dragon has modifiers he should not claim them in this massclaim.

I stand by everything I've said so far about my role though

I think she should probably full claim now though tbh

You'll know my role when I'm dead

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How did kyouko become part of the town block

I'm a slithery little snake is how

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dann should I not go into this right now? You said you didn't want to go into your kyouko read and here I am like "hmmmmm"

you can do what you want! I just kind of don't want to launch into a big wall case on anyone and then have to immediately back track if like kyouko's claim is confirmable and likely town or DK's target is super revealing

I just think kyouko is:

1. the person who seems to be trying to endgame the most out of anyone left alive
2. a person who tried to derail the gob wagon end of day
3. someone who is playing around their own role/claim in a scummy/performative way

I town read altaria/Black and Dragon pretty strongly. I think Hu Tao and geraint are likely to be town

My most unsure town reads are probably celebloki and drew right now

1. Yes. This has to do with my role.
2. I disagree, but I might be remembering wrong. I was pretty sure gob was town, and I have a tendency to fight for what I want and against what I don't
3. I, again, disagree

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

I may or may not have found a super secret gob towntell that I'll be keeping hidden for now, hard to say because he's like always scum on this site (unlucky) but what I've found is generally present in his scumgame and not present in his towngame.

So maybe it's more of a scumtell but the point is it's not present here and I like gob for town here

so what was this about?

It's either a scumtell or NAI, more likely NAI

can you tell us what it was

No, I still want to keep it to myself in case it's a scumtell.

^ these are sus

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

Hmm... it does feel like Dragon probably stopped the killer rather than protected the target

???

He's a claimed JK. Scum shoots him if he's town, and he cant target himself. Therefore.he probably targeted the killer and stopped them from killing

I think we no lim and let DE decide if he wants to JK Altaria again, JK someone else, or take no action. This way if DE is town here scum have to guess whether they should no kill or not, because if DE no acts and there is no kill it becomes likelier the first night was a frame-up using no kill.

If DE is scum that no killed to frame altaria this doesn't really change anything

VOTE: no elimination

There is a disconnect in these three posts and it doesn't really feel like a read progression. It feels planned or faked

I don't really care what you think of my gob read - I was wrong and I won't reveal the tell.

Also, there isn't a read in any of those 3 posts, so, yeah, it shouldn't feel like a read progression. All 3 are mech spec

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My 1000

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also, there isn't a read in any of those 3 posts, so, yeah, it shouldn't feel like a read progression. All 3 are mech spec

Oops. Typo. That should say "real progression"

And yeah it feels extremely fake for you to say twice that the JK probably targeted the killer and then 4 minutes after Dragon claims he JK'd me, you vote for a no elimination

Do you disagree with the reasoning for no elimination? Sounds like you're scumreading me for changing my opinion when I got new information, and at the same time you're saying I planned this with scum!Dragon which would make this a 7:3 game. So if I'm scum with dragon, it's not new information to me.

In the previous post I even said I'm not really thinking too hard until Dragon posts his results. Same thing toDay.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Think you're paranoid about being pocketed if you're town, and if you're scum you're kind of stuck here because Dragon has been jailing you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We need to know if Dragon targeted anyone before proceeding though.
If he didn't target and there was no kill anyways it seems pretty likely the first night's lack of a kill was from scum intentionally no-killing to frame the JK target. I'm hoping this is the case because it gives us the most to work with.
If he targeted Altaria again, or targeted someone else, it's still possible scum is no-killing to frame Dragon and his targets. It seems unlikely that scum would be focus-firing Altaria on N1 and N2 with a claimed JK on the loose.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Where in the world did you get that I think you planned this with Dragon?

I misread the post(s?) where you said you thought I planned it
I thought you meant I pretyped that post and waited for Dragon to post his Night Action, implying I knew Dragon's Night Action

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the controversial pagebottom vc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think your claim is too on the nose to come from scum unless you are informed of my role in which case you would not be so adamant about getting me to claim it.

Aside from the roleclaim, you were reluctant to come back to voting gob. I'll read it again now but I think your progression leading to you voting gob, voting someone else, and then putting gob back on E-1 seemed inconspicuous. I don't remember having any problem with it at the time.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: gob

I don't understand what gob is doing but I'm not convinced he isn't just limbait.
Any particular reason to vote him?

i spent like 10 minutes looking over gob's most recently completed game because i was thinking his play is weird here and wanted to see what he was like elsewhere. he rolled scum in that game. i saw posts like 41 where he dodges a question with a question, posts like 111 where he shows disapproval of wagons for no real reason, and posts like 176 where he avoids explaining reads by saying he's just making stuff off/saying things just to say them

i haven't had the chance to read a town game of his to see if this is consistent but i want to vote here for now

these are some of the posts that stood out to me. it's not the strongest read but for page 8 it feels good enough. i also just want gob to do something instead of "taking it easy" and not taking things seriously so hopefully this helps

why is titus scum

why not?

I don't think it's Roden.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Why

Why not

I was just throwing it out there lol

I was just throwing it out there lol

So there's no reason why you feel like it can't be her? You're just saying it to say it? What's the point?

I like saying out of pocket shit to see what people say

meta is fine, and aliana just said she could see where i was coming from. i don't think she is blindly following. in fact she was trying to look for herself to come to her own conclusion

gob maybe you should get some rest

VOTE: Dragon

Lol, literally just said defcon is not a good game for a meta read on anyone.

So you voting me for doing the same thing Aliana did while I was clearly responding to things from last page?

Wtf Drew.

No I am voting you because you are throwing out reads with no substance behind them.

i like this. i got some pockety vibes from dragoneater townlocking me and i don't really think the reasons for doing so are that strong

i'm willing to give gob the benefit of the doubt for now. i feel like voting him got him to do some stuff at least

VOTE: Dragon

i would be down with an umlaut wagon btw. i think i want to lim within dragon and umlaut today

I'm also starting to get sus of Gob but I'm not sure why.

same but my read is based on the game of his i was reading the other day. he was scum with gamma and tried to act like he was ok limming them but he kept saying LAMIST stuff like "let's not hammer early" and "i think it's best we wait". i think if dragon flips scum then that could implicate gob somewhat but its not a sure thing

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

yep i'm feeling this too

i feel a little worse about aliana as well. i'm pretty sure she said she thought gob was limbait but joined the wagon anyway

VOTE: Hu Tao

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

drew my issue with you is you haven't really said much about or interacted with gob at all and suddenly you're fine hammering him because what...he thinks voting scum D1 is a bad idea? yes that's a pretty crappy opinion but how does that make him scum? i could maybe see if you thought he was scum with dragon but dragon claimed JK so i doubt that's how you feel

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

And why exactly does fast wagon = scum pushing? I hear this rhetoric a lot but what is the actual reasoning behind it?

it doesn't. i just have a feeling gob

is

limbait and that's an easy thing for scum to push

But the speed and nature of the wagon are what gave you the feeling that gob is limbait being pushed by scum?

i've been going back and forth on gob. the wagon dynamics made it swing the other way for now

i'm low-key getting town pings from drew here. he is acting like a frustrated townie that is upset with another townie for preventing the hammer/claim on someone he thinks is scum

the only thing i don't get is why he would be so sure about scum gob here

VOTE: gob

i don't care anymore

I mean upon further inspection you look real sus though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm going to wait for the Dragon target still. It reads to me like scum!Altaria is frustrated by a deadweight partner in a micro and that the return to gob in 492 is her giving up.

It can also be interpreted as town!Altaria being temporarily wrong about gob I guess, I remember noting something about the Hu Tao wagon, particularly where Umlaut and immediately thereafter Altaria joined the wagon. Going to find that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Day 1 VC 6:

DragonEater70 (5 [E-1]): Doctor Drew, Altaria, geraintm, Hu Tao, Celebloki
Umlaut (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Aliana
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (1): DragonEater70

Not voting (1): gob

Gonna follow this up with some intermediary VCs cuz something feels fishy about what I just read

Dragon claims in 431. Altaria swaps to gob in 432. Next Celebloki swaps in 436 after Altaria and Dragon both say they're okay with either gob or umlaut.
Next Hu Tao and then Alianna vote gob in 440 and 441 (ali says this is E-1), then in 442 Drew intents to hammer. 440 and 442 are 19 minutes apart
Umlaut at 445 voices he is not going to vote gob

intermediate VC as of 445

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (5 [E-1]): DragonEater70, Altaria, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

When Umlaut moves for Hu Tao instead of gob in 446, Altaria quickly follows Umlaut's reasoning to Hu Tao but previously was saying she was okay with Umlaut/gob. The move to Hu Tao seems inconsistent with Altaria's play so far. Then Drew says the first thing he's said all game that has really townpinged me in 449

current votes

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Hu Tao (2): Umlaut, Altaria
gob (4): DragonEater70, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

Hu tao, Celebloki, and Altaria were on both Dragon's and gob's E-1 wagons, feels like Altaria is not treating everyone equally here since she's now sheeping her previous POE'd lim on Hu Tao while also "liking" Celebloki (this is an older read but I dont see how Celebloki is any different than Hu Tao here, or from me, gob, or Alianna for that matter. We all want a lim that is not one of the people we think is town and as we approach deadline people are getting more aggressive with their votes. Even Altaria is doing this, so pushing Hu Tao for it is not a good look imo)

VOTE: Altaria

Reading this post again with the context that Umlaut is town, gob is scum, and my post-gob-flip opinion that Hu Tao likely didn't bus, it does seem like Altaria is scummy here. Maybe she's frustrated with how slowly the game is going as well - like we're all waiting for Dragon, maybe that post quoting all of Hu Tao's posts about waiting for Dragon is her way of expressing that frustration

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean upon further inspection you look real sus though

I'm not sure why you needed further inspection to determine this.

All of those posts you quoted minus the very last one took place before you voted for me in 482.

So you should have already thought I was sus going into D2, which makes your decision to vote for no elimination even more strange after Dragon said he jailed me

mmm no. This is reasoning scum use. I'm allowed to reread the game after flips have occurred and have new insight.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You have mechanics going for you right now so I won't be voting but if you had no claim you would be my top candidate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ignoring mechanics:

Drew, Dragon, geraintm - town
Hu Tao - Hu Towny
Everyone else - can get it
you - scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't at the time, I just saw you put gob on E-1 and then I saw geraintm hammer scum. I was looking off-wagon and for mechanical info

[ssbm_Kyouko]

can get it - I think Aliana was very middle of the pack and I'm scared of scum!Dann after Toriel's Skip to the Next Phase

[ssbm_Kyouko]

for what it's worth, Dann's catchup was on the nose with regards to how I'm playing. That probably is +town for him because I don't think anyone else noticed or cared what I was doing. Looks like fresh town eyes, on second thought I'd put him with Hu Tao but I'm wary of him as a deepwolf

[ssbm_Kyouko]

10:45 AM:

You have mechanics going for you right now so I won't be voting but if you had no claim you would be my top candidate

Cool story. What about the rest of the playerlist?

10:46 AM:

Ignoring mechanics:

Drew, Dragon, geraintm - town
Hu Tao - Hu Towny
Everyone else - can get it
you - scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The point is that we're having a conversation in the moment and you're calling reads I have on my nulls shallow. duh, they're my nulls.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think you've confused VT!Kyouko with town!Kyouko if you're town here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have seen the claim and will try to think about it but I'm out of time to play atm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah this was a strange one. I went back and forth on hiding on geraintm and alianna and ended up deciding I didn't want to hide on Dannflor because he's more targetable as town. I feel like I threw by getting shot

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the title predicted how it would pan out pretty well

Quoting for notification, what was your role?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't want to hide behind you because if you were town I was worried the 1 scum left would want to kill a JK to avoid being guiltied. I guess Celebloki would have been a fine target though. I wanted someone middle of the pack and I thought there might still be suspicion that geraintm bussed which would keep non-geraintm scum from shooting there. I did consider that if you were JK scum might have tried to shoot me, resulting in no kill, which is why I was trying to keep quiet about details of my role. Did you know I was a Hider specifically? I feel like I gave it away

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I did consider not hiding on N3 actually because I thought I'd given away what my role was and that if scum wanted to kill me they would be shooting elsewhere, and I think we were on odds before the elim, so a double kill would have put us back to evens, but that seemed too much of a long shot to actually commit to not hiding

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I felt like I gave it away more and more every time I talked about it, and thought it would be known by then - I guess not though, I just went back to find quotes of where I thought I alluded to it too closely but I think I was actually pretty good about deleting my preview posts that gave too much away and re-wording/saying nothing at all