Open 892 | Nomination Mafia | Postgame

[Black]

there's a distinct lack of panic in this game state right now which makes me think scum are comfy which points towards roulette or bella imo

i think gob is probably just town

I don't know. I think Black is panicking... but still.

Can you expand on this read?

[Black]

Bella is strange today.

Also what is this about?

[Black]

there's a distinct lack of panic in this game state right now which makes me think scum are comfy which points towards roulette or bella imo

i think gob is probably just town

This post feels really scummy?

What benefit does scum!sky get from calling gob town though? I guess it could be reverse psychology to make us think she's town but she's going to have to backtrack on this read at some point if she's scum

[Black]

Obviously I'm fine with it. I still think he's more likely to flip scum than bella

[Black]

Roulette,

Vanilla Townie

, was eliminated.

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie

Salutations, you are a

Vanilla Townie

!

Personal Abilities:

• You have no special abilities.

Win Condition:

• You win if all threats to the
  Town
  are deceased and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player remains.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Saw that coming

[Black]

Gobs last minute panic reads fake.

I'm not really getting that vibe

I'm a little paranoid that gob reversed course because he knew he would get pushed today if I flipped but I think all the effort and thought he put in reads like a townie worried about being wrong

I need to look at this when I get out of bed and get some coffee

[Black]

Roulette,

Vanilla Townie

, was eliminated.

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie

Salutations, you are a

Vanilla Townie

!

Personal Abilities:

• You have no special abilities.

Win Condition:

• You win if all threats to the
  Town
  are deceased and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player remains.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Saw that coming

Then why did you vote??

Either way i think we go sky/bella today. I am leaning Bella but will go and look more

Because I had to?

[Black]

Roulette,

Vanilla Townie

, was eliminated.

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie

Salutations, you are a

Vanilla Townie

!

Personal Abilities:

• You have no special abilities.

Win Condition:

• You win if all threats to the
  Town
  are deceased and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player remains.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Saw that coming

Then why did you vote??

Either way i think we go sky/bella today. I am leaning Bella but will go and look more

Because I had to?

We couldve voted Bella. Its water under the bridge thoever.

shrug

I thought Bella was more likely to flip town

ya if youre mafia black i saved your ass in a major way and kept your loseless streak alive.

So jf youre mafia at least make this unpainful

I'm not scum here, but I do want to win, and I think me living gives us a greater chance at that. So thanks I guess lol

[Black]

Gob are you trying to pocket me

[Black]

Well, after looking things over I don't really know what to think

sky and gob both showed some sense of townie thought process yesterday. gob's is obvious and while I'm still a bit worried that he could be panicked scum, I don't really think he is. I've played with gob in two games recently where he was scum in a tight spot and he didn't show even a fraction of the effort and willingness to solve that he did yesterday. I haven't played with town gob yet but I'm getting the feeling that this is what it can look like when he tries hard. But then there's the argument of what if gob wasn't trying hard in the scum games he played recently, and

this

is what his tryhard scum game looks like?

Sky's solving is less apparent but looking over the ISO and I can see the progressions. She went from SRing Roulette to wondering why Roulette would nominate himself if he were scum, to thinking it could be me (or at least that I was the best fade), to becoming paranoid about gob, to townreading gob, and then back to her Roulette SR. I still don't understand why scum!sky would switch her read on gob. I guess it could be her trying to pocket him but ehh, idk. Her progressions read more like conflicted town than scum with an agenda

It feels like bella is putting the least amount of thought into solving this, but that's not really out of the ordinary for town!her (no offense). A lot of her posts yesterday were just stating who she thinks it could be and pointing fingers in different directions in a way that feels like she wanted to make it seem like we could all be scum. There's also a lot of the whole "I don't know the setup" comments and my paranoid brain can't help but read it like theatre to try and seem innocent. There's a decent chance bella legitimately doesn't understand what's going on but I just feel like she would've read the first post over and over until she understood instead of constantly asking the thread

We can get today wrong and still win tomorrow? This is ridiculously wifom but would scum!roulette nominate themselves twice?

I'm like 80% sure it's just gob here. He nominated himself D2 and then coasted on the TR from that. He knew he would have to nominate himself in two days from now so he sat this one out. And now he's trying to fade his biggest threat while keeping the door open to fade ANY of Roulette, bella, or sky tomorrow depending on which way the wind blows

Sorry, I'm thick: why would he have to nominate himself? How many many goes have we got to get this right?

Let me make sure this is right:
If we mislom today, we get a free shot tomorrow?
If we still mislim, we get another day where scum have to nominate, but there's only three people so scum have to be in a position to be voted?

My gut is still telling me that we win as long as we get rid of sky and gob but there's an argument to be made here for bella, so I'm pretty conflicted atm

[Black]

Also, I'm /always/ bad at mech. It's totally nai

I'm willing to consider this. I'm pretty much the same, but not so much when it comes to setup stuff and game mechanics. I struggle with role mech and balance stuff

Do you ever lean into it/fake it when you're scum?

[Black]

Also, I'm /always/ bad at mech. It's totally nai

I'm willing to consider this. I'm pretty much the same, but not so much when it comes to setup stuff and game mechanics. I struggle with role mech and balance stuff

Do you ever lean into it/fake it when you're scum?

I've faked confusion about the amount of scum....once as scum? I ask dumb questions about the set up a lot.

Also, your example was the same question three times, the last was me figuring it out.

That's fair

[Black]

Scum who just volunteered to be the lim?

In regards to this I do think it makes more sense for scum to not nominate themselves there, though I think they could have done it and then tried the whole wifom thing

This was one of the biggest reasons I didn't think it could be you, plus all the interactions with molla that felt unintuitive as S/S

[Black]

So it has to be Skygazer, if what you say is true. And scum nominated Day 2 and we (i) just missed.

I still think it could be bella considering she's using the wifom argument. I'm having conflicting thoughts on all 3 of you. Oddly enough you're coming across as the most townie after I was super confident it was you yesterday

I still feel like it's Bella though. What interactions made you think it wasn't S/S ? I felt like it was pretty along the lines of Bella's Scumgame the way she interacted with both Merlyn and molla, if bella is scum. Especially on the first day.

I went over it in 858. Let me know if you see anything you disagree with

[Black]

but the way stuff went yesterday it's hard to believe

What exactly went down that makes it hard to believe I'm scum?

[Black]

Well it seems like we go Sky here. Then tomorrow we can go either Bella or Black. I would super stress for that because they're in the same lim pool, but I Actually think the odds are good that way.

Why sky if you think it's bella?

[Black]

i think bella declaring that they're fine with getting voted out is more suspicious than not? i mean personally speaking, i would've been fine being voted out earlier on but now that we've only got 2 lims left, offering yourself up as a guaranteed miselimination is weird. changing a 50% chance of winning by random chance to 33% isn't ideal at all so why just give up and die? feels more like an optics-motivated statement

torn though rn

This was my thought as well

[Black]

Seems pretty much everyone is townreading me or treating me like town.

If you think otherwise tell me now. Cause I hven't felt any heat from Sky recently, Bella had a bit with me yesterday.

I still think you could be scum


It feels like you just want to push sky because I showed some form of hesitation for bella. You say you think it's sky because bella is fine with being faded but 1113 came after she said that, and in this post you say you think it's bella

And now you seem really concerned with how people read you which reads like you want to take the people that townread you the most to ELO

I'm not sure if you're scum trying to position themselves optimally or paranoid town

[Black]

Yep. Let me shower and get to my PC

[Black]

Newbie 2111
Newbie 2113
Newbie 2116
Micro 1082
Open 885

Open 888 (had to replace out of this one halfway through)

[Black]

I have a busy weekend lined up but I will try to pop in when I can

[Black]

mod, vla til Monday, adventures with the mini klickiphants[/b

MINI KLICKIPHANTS

[Black]

I'm gonna try to do somewhat of a reread Monday to figure this shit out

[Black]

Roulette is dead

No way you expect us to believe you didn't know that XD

[Black]

Black is either town who's being easily swayed by gob, or scum

I would say gob has slightly swayed me but I'm not sure if it was easy

Why are you so convinced about sky?

[Black]

....if I look for an agenda, especially in what I've just written, I feel like it's in what I'm saying about black. I think I'm being a bit pig headed: I want gob to be scum, rather than soneone who just doesnt get me

So who are you scum reading now exactly? I'm not really sure.

I am not scum and if I am wrong on you, I'm sorry. I don't really have anything new to say about anyone right now though.

Did you get anything out of my scum games?

[Black]

My gut is telling me bella's AtE is probably real town frustration. I might just be underestimating how often she can just miss things as town. I'm not feeling like it's an act and I'm just hoping I'm not wrong and she's not fooling me here. I want to trust my earlier read here that she's not partnered with molla

It's between gob and skygazer for me, and I lean skygazer. It feels like she keeps promising content and has pushed that agenda all game. This doesn't make her scum but compared to gob who actively seems to be trying to solve this, it feels like she's keeping her options open while trying to not say much

[Black]

I thought you townread sky though? Or you were at least neutral on her. I think it's probably just her but I looked over some of the thread and I can't find anything super definitive, so it's mainly just gut and PoE based on gut feelings about you/gob

[Black]

Like, I /really/ wanted gob to be scum before I started spam thinking yesterday and then I was like....or they are just wrong and I'm being hard headed about it.

Relatable

[Black]

VOTE: skygazer

I think I'm ok with this

I can see scum!sky nominating themselves D2 for the towncred and then not nominating themselves D4 because they don't need to. The same could be said for gob but gob is trying way harder here. I've never seen him try this hard as scum so this is either something new from him or he's just town

[Black]

stop black

lwt me get to this but i think thats the wrong play

bad f3

???

[Black]

Scum can't quickhammer. I don't think you need to be worried about my vote

I'm down to hear what you have to say

[Black]

That's a good point. This is WIFOM so I don't think it matters but if I were scum here I would absolutely try to fade bella

[Black]

Gob why is it a bad f3 for you

[Black]

Yeah this is sus

Sky is flailing and she knows she can't win in ELO if I'm there

[Black]

Im voting sky before I go to bed

If you think it's sky then you might want to vote now before she can pull this stunt off

[Black]

Sky is safe going after black here tho because if black flips town, gob is still gonna take it as validation!

Yep. Sky knows that gob will think it's you when I flip. It's her best play

And now sky is acting like she is fine being faded because she knows gob townreads the whole defeated "fade me" thing. He did that with me before

She's pulling out all the stops

[Black]

Ugh

Sky I'm not really minding some of these thoughts but why did you wait until you were on your death bed to do stuff and town it up?

[Black]

Kinda second guessing myself here

gob what do you think

[Black]

[Black]

Gob if you really are town and you instavote me then we just lose. Please keep it in your pants for a second

[Black]

Part of me wants to sheep sky and just go bella and another part of me is suddenly super paranoid that I was right about gob

I want to look over the thread more when I'm not on mobile

[Black]

So which one of you is mafia? If you out right now I will make it worth your while. I am made of money IRL and can offer $100 if you out here. Will pay via whatever you want

I won't have much time to play today. We can afford to take this slow

[Black]

If you are town then you win by voting bella

My issue is I'm not confident you're town anymore

[Black]

I'm here

I've been putting this game on the back burner because I don't feel confident at all here. I think it's probably just bella but I have some gut paranoia that I was just right about you and all of your flip flopping

I've been watching LoR Worlds for the past two days so I haven't been putting much effort into any of my games

[Black]

I feel like I need to comb through the thread more but I have no motivation to do it atm so I'm just kinda lazily hanging around

[Black]

What is the significance of that? I don't speak VCA

[Black]

Blacks been on every single e-1 there is, I believe?

If you're trying to say it's scummy then I'm curious why you left out the fact that the gob slot has also been on every elimination minus Molla

This just feels like shade because you see that gob is leaning towards voting me

[Black]

Tbf I don't really understand why /else/ gob sr me apart from his wagon thing.

And I don't think you do massively sr me?

I don't massively SR either of you but one of you has to be scum, so for me it comes down to which one of you is better at seeming town as scum

I've seen gob's scum game a lot recently and he was pretty obvscum. I'm not familiar with your scum game at all

[Black]

This is not even true. I went hella deep my last real wolf game.

If you are talking about Open 891 then I found you as scum on like page 5

I'll give you props for fooling everyone else. Every time I tried to push you some dumb townie came in and said you were town. You didn't have me fooled though

[Black]

Too bad you couldn't seal the deal in the end

If you're scum here then you might get the better of me this time but I'm going to do everything I can to prevent that from happening

[Black]

Alright we might as well do this

lets think of shit to talk about

i would like to talk about Black's kind of weirdness around hopping on molla's wagon. She really didn't go on that until pushed.

Let's talk about it then. What do you want to know? I feel like I explained my thought process pretty well

[Black]

I just realized this game started over a month ago. Wow

[Black]

Alright we might as well do this

lets think of shit to talk about

i would like to talk about Black's kind of weirdness around hopping on molla's wagon. She really didn't go on that until pushed.

Let's talk about it then. What do you want to know? I feel like I explained my thought process pretty well

I am just wondering why it took you so long to vote, especially when you seemed so sure after the fact.

I mean you were SRing them a bit before.

Also I think i chipped my tooth

What? I voted for molla as soon as I possibly could in 683. I couldn't vote them D2 because of the nomination mechanic

(sry about your tooth )

[Black]

I talked myself into voting Roulette because he fit with bella and molla. I moved back to molla after he told me to self vote because that shit annoyed me

[Black]

Gob, considering it 'has to be me or black ', why have we voted out not me or black two days in a row?

This is an interesting question. In a scum!gob world it makes a lot of sense for him to try and take you and me to F3 because he's been promoting his "one scum in Black/bella" solve for most of the game. This gives him the chance to push either of us here depending on what we do

[Black]

I am probably gonna vote Black quickly tomorrow just FYI to everyone.

That was my original solution that made the most sense and I should stick to that. The past 2 days are objectively huge misplays on my part. Roulette I was just lazy and Skygazer I was also too lazy but also had some shit come up.

If it's Bella, it sucks, but yea.

Gob why didn't you do this

[Black]

Gob, considering it 'has to be me or black ', why have we voted out not me or black two days in a row?

This is an interesting question. In a scum!gob world it makes a lot of sense for him to try and take you and me to F3 because he's been promoting his "one scum in Black/bella" solve for most of the game. This gives him the chance to push either of us here depending on what we do

i mean yea in theory maybe but i think everyone could see i truly did want to lim you both.

Right now i still have a 50/50 shot of hitting even if i guessed randonly. So i am going to trust what i thiught originally. I felt serious scum equity between black and molla, i even mentioned it before nolla died

You didn't want to fade either of us when you voted for Roulette. You stopped pushing me for survival reasons. You knew you would be pushed the next day if I flipped town. Why didn't you go for bella there instead of settling for Roulette?

[Black]

Gob why didn't you vote bella after sky did in 1235?

[Black]

Hmm. I think that does give you some town points. I don't understand why scum!gob wouldn't want to take skygazer to F3 considering she was pretty adamant about her townread on you

[Black]

Like yeah I think it makes sense to bring me and bella so you could push either of us but taking sky is probably the optimal play in a scum!you world

[Black]

@black, fair. I dunno, I think I'm trying hard not to be swayed by the fact I like you!

Bella are you trying to butter me up

[Black]

Like yeah I think it makes sense to bring me and bella so you could push either of us but taking sky is probably the optimal play in a scum!you world

Is it? That's legit what in trying to figure out. I can't work out which is more optimal for scum! gob: could it be correct that he was pretty well positioned whatever? A good lie is close to the truth: he just said that he'd gone with the easy elim over his theory, but he /loves/ his theory. I also haven't heard any ....regret? In mad at myself for not hard pushing that aureal should not have been limmed, but gobs ok with town missing conf scum teice in a row?

Yeah I think he would be well positioned either way, that's true

Scum!Bella either buddies you to fuck or pushes for your elim, not this weird wishy washy shit

This is believable

[Black]

Bad day for me but I'll do some stuff tomorrow

[Black]

I started a new job today so my activity during day time hours is going to plummet. I'll have to do all my catching up at night (central American time)

[Black]

I just realized the deadline is in a little over a day. I don't really have much free time anymore so I'm just gonna have to take a stab here

I'm gonna take one last look when I get off work today and make a decision

[Black]

My gut is still telling me that we win as long as we get rid of sky and gob

I think I'm leaning toward trusting this gut read that past me made

[Black]

I still can't stop thinking about gob's contradictions that I outlined in 905

I said then that we can't let him get to ELO and welp...here we are

[Black]

Ok lunch break is over I'll be back later

[Black]

Meh

My confidence is pretty low after pretty much being the sole reason town lost in Mini Normal 2319

I'm not gonna be the first to vote and throw this game too

[Black]

I can kinda relate to gob not wanting to vote first but I'm just not sure it comes from the same place as my reasons

[Black]

If you are scum and your original plan was to take me and Bella then I don't think it really matters if you brought sky or not

And actually now that I'm thinking about it if you did being sky and you autovoted me/bella then that would make it obvious to me/bella that sky was town and you were scum. It would give us the opportunity to case you

Meanwhile if you're scum that brought me/bella then you would play it exactly how you've played it so far...just sitting back waiting for one of us to make a move

I think you thought I would vote for Bella here after changing my mind about you. That's why you brought me to F3

[Black]

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Black]

Gob, there's no way anyone can laugh at you this game. You played incredibly. You made one mistake by not following through with fading me and that's it. You had me nervous the entire time and this is the closest I've been to losing a game as scum. Serious props to you even if you couldn't seal the deal

[Black]

VOTE: Bellaphant

So I was wrong?

Please don't retire. You were great

I'm just better

[Black]

That is the biggest joke I've ever read, I lost.

This is my last game of mafia ever. Subbing out of all my other games right now.

Nah don't do that. Everyone deserves a good swindling at the hands of the Scum Queen at least once

[Black]

I truly can't believe I won though. I thought this was completely over back when I had to argue that I was the best fade

[Black]

Think what you want but you can't take this win away from me. I played you like a fiddle

6-0

[Black]

Don't be a sore loser

[Black]

Go away then

I'll celebrate by myself

@Bella sorry it had to be like this boo. Ily <3

[Black]

Wagon on me is awful

Tagging you just to let you know I just pulled off one of the biggest comebacks ever to win it for us

[Black]

intent, i guess

It almost ended right here

[Black]

Tbf, gob!town was never going to find me.

You did well black, but now I can read you better.

Totally worth it to keep my scum winning streak alive

[Black]

Yeah gob massively threw. Sky declared intent and he unvoted me and never looked back

[Black]

Tbf, gob!town was never going to find me.

You did well black, but now I can read you better.

Totally worth it to keep my scum winning streak alive

I mean, did you win, or did town lose

Seriously though, this game has added fuel to my town cohesion fire.

I mean I still had to navigate a game state that was super stacked against me, shrug

[Black]

My scum partner did me zero favors and I still managed to contribute towards fading roulette, sky, and then you

[Black]

Yeah gob massively threw. Sky declared intent and he unvoted me and never looked back

sht the fuck up

Make me

[Black]

Go to your retirement home then and come back when you're not a sore loser

[Black]

Gob can you go away now? You're not very nice

[Black]

Gtfoh with that opinion Gamma. I tried to be nice to gob before he decided to be rude and disrespectful

Me and Bella are chill so us talking to each other like this is perfectly fine within the realm of our friendship

[Black]

I deserved to win. Bella really needed to actually play and do stuff Day 6 instead of just sitting around shading me.

Honestly even if i voted Black she prbably would've flopped onto me given how backwards their thinking was Day 6.

If you deserved to win then you would have. Take this as lesson to trust your gut and not get swayed by your solve saying they are willing to be faded

[Black]

I was gonna wait but nah
Black you’re being an incredibly sore winner, so the reaction you’re getting isn’t out of nowhere. I think the feedback towards Bella and sky could be expressed better but you spinning up gob is pretty uncool

Gob, there's no way anyone can laugh at you this game. You played incredibly. You made one mistake by not following through with fading me and that's it. You had me nervous the entire time and this is the closest I've been to losing a game as scum. Serious props to you even if you couldn't seal the deal

@Bella sorry it had to be like this boo. Ily <3

Yeah these are totally things a sore winner would say

[Black]

Gob, there's no way anyone can laugh at you this game. You played incredibly. You made one mistake by not following through with fading me and that's it. You had me nervous the entire time and this is the closest I've been to losing a game as scum. Serious props to you even if you couldn't seal the deal

You didn't deserve to win. Bella did nothing the entire past two days and put it all on me.

I had you caught and everyone like Sky and Bella being worthless led me to conceding on Roulette.

So no, bad game to you.

Yeah Gamma I TOTALLY started it

Fuck outta here with your awful opinion

[Black]

Black isn't being a sore winner and I think has accepted my implicit feedback too?

Gob is straight up having a tantrum. The attitude that lost him the game is the one he's showing now. Sometimes, a little conversation and open mindedness is what's needed: if you write people off as useless, you aren't ever going to get anything out of them.

Thank you. And I have accepted your feedback. I appreciate you handling the ending of the game in an approachable way

[Black]

I was gonna wait but nah
Black you’re being an incredibly sore winner, so the reaction you’re getting isn’t out of nowhere. I think the feedback towards Bella and sky could be expressed better but you spinning up gob is pretty uncool

Gob, there's no way anyone can laugh at you this game. You played incredibly. You made one mistake by not following through with fading me and that's it. You had me nervous the entire time and this is the closest I've been to losing a game as scum. Serious props to you even if you couldn't seal the deal

@Bella sorry it had to be like this boo. Ily <3

Yeah these are totally things a sore winner would say

Yeah no, you’re clearly not aware how shitty you actually come off as. 1385 feels self-aggrandizing and 1394 looks insincere.

I can't help that you're interpreting them that way and frankly I don't care

[Black]

What a weird decision to come into a game you didn't even play in and misinterpret things just to antagonize the winner

Yuck

[Black]

You still didnt deserve to win Black. How you played wasnt optimal anyway.

If people were actually active and responsive we wouldnt have done Roulette and you and bella wouldve gone first

I'll agree with you that I didn't play optimally but that doesn't really bother me. I got the job done in the end

[Black]

Black isn't being a sore winner and I think has accepted my implicit feedback too?

Gob is straight up having a tantrum. The attitude that lost him the game is the one he's showing now. Sometimes, a little conversation and open mindedness is what's needed: if you write people off as useless, you aren't ever going to get anything out of them.

I recognize that gob’s approach is bad but I’ve also realized that he is less set in his ways than my initial impression was. I think if you and Black tried making a connection, there could be a chance for a difference to be made. I also think that gob is clearly in genuine distress so for Black to put him down in order to feed her own ego is sickening.
PEdit: :/

I was trying to build gob up until he got nasty with me. At that point I didn't really care about how he took things. If he can dish it out he should be able to take it

You're way off base here

[Black]

I love how gob can tell people they played bad and didn't deserve to win, call them idiots etc, and yet Gamma comes in and tries to act like gob is the victim here

So fucking strange

[Black]

Its a shame i took Bella into F3.

You lost because I talked you out of fading me by using the ol "I'm willing to be faded" trick. If that didn't work then you would have won, and it would have been super impressive. You have no one to blame but yourself

[Black]

You may feel like you were being genuine but most if not all of your attempts to build him up were also geared towards elevating yourself

I'm allowed to be excited and proud that I won. You may feel like I wasn't being genuine in telling gob that he played incredibly but you're just flat out wrong. Your read of the situation is disgusting and it's pretty clear you just don't like me. I don't care. I'm not here to make friends

[Black]

Hooooly crap guys I'm not even reading all this shit

You both need to go take a long walk and remember this is a game with actual people on the other side.

Emotions can easily run raw at the game end and I don't think it was hard to tell that gob was not going to take teasing well here, Black. Say that stuff about being swindled to me and I'll probably banter back, but you don't have that kind of rapport with him. Giving someone in distress some space rather than jumping to twist the knife is just the decent thing to do, even if they don't immediately have the capacity to express anything but bitterness.

Once gob answered my olive branch with hateful shit, I was no longer interested in trying to make him feel better

[Black]

Y'all can keep shitting on me if you want, I won't be clicking on this thread anymore

[Black]

Good game everyone

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