open 896: describing conker (game over)

[shiki]

But, i just don’t believe your scum read on me. It seems fabricated and very weak coming from you and I don’t expect you to have weak reads.

I think the issue here is "weak"

I do not really have an issue fabricating read strength as mafia. I find it to be one of the easiest things to do because people tend to listen to loud voices with a lot of conviction.

I think you know I am perfectly capable of faking conviction as mafia so its so weird to me that you think me being purposefully restrained in regards to you is because I am mafia.

I felt somewhat embarrassed and guilty about misreading you as mafia the last time we were T/T and I appreciated how nice you were about it. I wouldn't really want to push you that hard anyway because I enjoy playing with you. Even if I were at 100% I think I would still be nice about it. I am not sure you are mafia, I am just guessing here.

you claim my read of you is bad/weak and thus I am mafia except its pretty much the same thing I said about you in the last game we played together, you were mafia then so I think you would remember. You could have said I am mafia replicating a previous read but instead you claim I am mafia because my reads are not this weak as town when you should know thats not true.

I guess i could be pushing you harder but I dont really want the responsiblity tbh. like if you are mafia and you lim me and then town ignores me and lets you win i wouldnt feel bad about it. id just feel vindicated that i was right where everyone else was wrong. and if you are town and i limmed you then i would feel bad because everyone else is right and I am wrong. so despite me thinking you are mafia maybe I just dont want to kill you. i am kind of silly sometimes.

don't really truly believe that this comes from a partner very often especially since then dannflor continued to bring it up multiple times

like could in theory be dannflor using as an excuse to then also not pressure aristeia too hard in the same way aristeia is not pressuring dannflor too hard like there's strategic benefit but it feels more like something that was actually weighing on dannflor i guess

especially paired with aristeia's like, overfocus on dannflor starting before dannflor even posted,

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

this is such a clean unvote if meuh is a scums here like,

like she unvotes oopsiedaisy here at e-1 after starting the push on oopsiedaisy when aristeia was under heavy pressure when she herself had also just recently been run on

[shiki]

interactions with aristeia herself pretty limited:

I feel like if we kill in the big hood, we should be taking the opinions of people in the big hood more seriously than the ones in the small hood on who to kill
The knowledge that there are no partners to help each other in the big hood helps us here

who do you want to kill in the big hood rn?

I’ll post tomorrow, I just lost my Job.

Sorry to hear

I feel kinda meh about Ari too fwiw no one in that hood is doing anything that’s been pinging me as town

Pressuring me is probably good for the gamestate actually

what do you expect to happen?

like it's pretty much this? and then aristeia asking the same question again later about who's the scums in the big hood and then end of day voting

not much to make much of

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

this is such a clean unvote if meuh is a scums here like,

like she unvotes oopsiedaisy here at e-1 after starting the push on oopsiedaisy when aristeia was under heavy pressure when she herself had also just recently been run on

especially!! because there is also pressure there from people not on the wagon

[shiki]

Town Shiki has had weird conflicting feelings about me and has worried about my alignment in past games, this Shiki does not care about my alignment

this still kinda ??? because scum!shiki has also had weird conflicting feelings about you and has worried about your alignment in past games so i still don't really understand why this would be scum indicative and then you mostly abandoning thought when there wasn't a wagon anymore kinda hmm but eh i also continued to post in that time period so would expect thoughts on me to continue to evolve and no real reason for you commit those changes to thread and we kinda hashed out the thing anyway yeah

[shiki]

@skygazer

- do not take any action that attempts to prove the existence of private game communications. this includes sharing links, post numbers, or screenshots of private threads, directly quoting instead of paraphrasing, sharing images, or discussing formatting/styling. you are allowed to claim that these communications exist, and you are allowed to paraphrase, as long as you do not attempt to provide evidence.

are we able to quote from the big neighbourhood now that only players from the big neighbourhood who would already have access to that information are alive?

[shiki]

(otherwise can just post there instead i suppose)

[shiki]

kinda think oopsiedaisy nightkill was simply because she was very unlikely to be partnered with aristeia due to e-1 (that dannflor also pointed out)

[shiki]

yeah aristeia knew she was being eliminated coming into day so mostly that yeah

[shiki]

I don't think I'd characterize my scum play as pretending to be wallpaper but thank you for the vote of confidence fireisredsir

okay, sorry.

I wasnt offended! you dont need to be sorry :<

oh. ok! :>

i might read too much into things

and i am still remembering how to play this game

this is going to be so embarrassing if the one time I don't scumread you you're actually mafia

i might be reading too much into it but i find this really hard to imagine as SvS

mhm

[shiki]

prefer when fireisredsir feels overwhelmingly town to this but not really a fair expectation

[shiki]

same can probably be said about me here something about this game i guess

[shiki]

(which also makes dannflor's comment about not being paired with aristeia because aristeia would have been more invested if they were partners pretty discountable due to overall investment level of everyone and just the nature of game - i have played scum games where i was heavily invested with partners who weren't really playing the game and i have played scum games where i was struggling to be invested while partnered with some of my favourite players on site - i think for me at least sometimes it clicks and sometimes it does not and sometimes my brain works {a bit} and sometimes it does not)

[shiki]

[shiki]

gotta make a new years resolution to become a better/more reasonable town or at least to stop messing up so many day ones because everything was there here

[shiki]

anyway would lean afrayed knott right now i guess would like input from others still struggling with split though

[shiki]

(which also makes dannflor's comment about not being paired with aristeia because aristeia would have been more invested if they were partners pretty discountable due to overall investment level of everyone and just the nature of game - i have played scum games where i was heavily invested with partners who weren't really playing the game and i have played scum games where i was struggling to be invested while partnered with some of my favourite players on site - i think for me at least sometimes it clicks and sometimes it does not and sometimes my brain works {a bit} and sometimes it does not)

have also played very heavily invested town games and town games where i was more or less non-existent i think can find a lot of variance for most players

like do i think scum!aristeia would like to be invested when paired with scum!dannflor? certainly, but i also think scum!aristeia would like to be invested regardless of partner and lack of investment probably not partner related

[shiki]

don't know how like, useful, the scum sample for afrayed knott is because it was a short-lived replace-in

viewtopic.php?t=91890&user_select%5B%5D=37207

but i do feel like it feels more like here than the town games,

shrugs,

like there is momentum to afrayed knott's townplay that doesn't really feel present there or here

[shiki]

feel like things aren't making the right amount of sense but that's where i'm at

[shiki]

prefer when fireisredsir feels overwhelmingly town to this but not really a fair expectation

this is probably a super unreasonable expectation for me to have especially because the clearance needed for me to see it compared to the like, average mafia player, is so distorted it becomes like, nearly need to be hardcleared like that one trust fall game where the towns were extremely super obvious and everyone still had to wait forever for me to feel okay enough just don't know how to be better and there should certainly be things in this game i should be able to confidently townread - the closest was ydrasse but alas - but once again i am me please bear with me and if any of you still have any quibbles with my alignment or anything related to me or if you simply think i'm wrong about something please just ask me/show me

[shiki]

what are your thoughts on ari arranging the hoods in the way she did if she’s partnered with Afrayed?

You were using that as a defense earlier on D1

still think it'd be weird for her to have done so in this way and it's the thing that makes me feel the uneasiest about an afrayed knott/aristeia pairing right now

because sending a newbie to the large neighbourhood and then pushing them and playing in the way aristeia did in general (small neighbourhood doesn't matter etc) really does seem like a lot of added pressure for partner and the split makes more sense for other partners as i said - really for any of the other three of you as you're all strong scum players - but that doesn't make the other factors go away and were afrayed knott an experienced mafia player i think aristeia's play around the slot would make a lot of sense for a partner

if they are partners i kinda wonder if aristeia asked which neighbourhood afrayed knott preferred and afrayed knott chose the large neighbourhood

i think aristeia definitely chose ydrasse to go with her obviously

but then look at the situation we are currently in which is also more or less the situation aristeia was largely playing towards throughout the game it's just a weird situation to throw a newbie into yeah? just don't know how to weigh that against other things

[shiki]

but then look at the situation we are currently in which is also more or less the situation aristeia was largely playing towards throughout the game it's just a weird situation to throw a newbie into yeah? just don't know how to weigh that against other things

right would generally want someone you'd be confident in to close out the game here if you're aristeia because otherwise why would she herself not be the one in this situation to do so since she is also a strong scum player et cetera et cetera

but do think perhaps her interactions with dannflor were meant to tie her to dannflor,

[shiki]

but do think perhaps her interactions with dannflor were meant to tie her to dannflor,

right like this:

i take back what i said about dannflor btw

which part

you being 75% mafia

is there any other purpose this serves?

[shiki]

I thought it was also a (successful) attempt to manipulate me into unvoting her

the 'just keep shooting in the small hood' thing kinda worked on me because it was just so obvious

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

this is such a clean unvote if meuh is a scums here like,

like she unvotes oopsiedaisy here at e-1 after starting the push on oopsiedaisy when aristeia was under heavy pressure when she herself had also just recently been run on

Idk

I also see Meuh kinda soft defending me / soft attacking aristeia during that time. I feel like Meuh is prepared to bus Ari at this point if they are partners

I also feel like *someone* was always unvoting the Daisy wagon, and the most important thing for Meuh if she’s scum is to build enough town cred to end game, because it’s obvious ari won’t be doing it by then

hm idk it's like

like that elimination would be such a boon for the scumteam and! meuh would have been very aware of this if she's a scums because she was pushing for a big hood elimination anyway and thinking about what it'd mean as evidenced by her posts in the neighbourhood, and even if unvoting there because she thinks someone will and wants to be the one who gets credit for doing so, she doesn't return when presented with the opportunity again later

i should go look at who was off wagon and if meuh was present when aristeia pushed oopsiedaisy to e-1 actually

[shiki]

I don't think there's a flip here that gives no info

VOTE: Daisy e-1 etc etc

hmhmhmhm

[shiki]

I'm partnered with Daisy so I will not be hammering!

[shiki]

she did and looking at it it kinda feels like aristeia wanting her to

[shiki]

new years resolution

to all the devils, lusts, passions, greeds, envies, loves, hates, strange desires, enemies ghostly and real, the army of memories, with which i do battle - may they never give me peace ~ patricia highsmith

[shiki]

thumbs up thankyou

[shiki]

There’s a lot here from Shiki, which I have quickly skimmed, but I need to read it to appreciate her thought process and i suppose defend myself from what I feel she is trying to do, But I maybe wrong. It does though see for the most part she would be hung up on me. So I will read what is being said and see if there is a reply needed. First glance though, there does seem to be repetition though, and that comes back to my hang up earlier in the game. Seems to be a trait she has, back to, I will bang this drum long enough then maybe others will join in. But Ok, I sort of see her logic but don’t fully understand it. I can’t answer why I ended up in the large hood, maybe she does? Let me read her comments and see if I can answer anything for her.

if there are things in my logic you are not following or things you feel i have not explained well anything really just ask am happy to try to further explain

i will say i am often very repetitive in communication yes as someone who struggles greatly to communicate effectively i've learned that it helps others if i do so like early on in my playing here everyone would consistently just say 'don't know what it's on about' and more or less ignore me and then i exploited that as a scums a few times while constantly working on ways to not be ignored/try to better communicate with others like i could post in a way that's like 'unreadable' or whatever but it'd serve little purpose other than to make me an even worse town player and yeah

like even here you are saying that there is repetition and yet you are still not understanding where i am coming from but i do not know exactly where the hang up may be so i do not know what to go further into or reword for you

anyway yeah like simply reading a mafia intention into my posts about you here doesn't make much sense to me and also doesn't help me to see why i'm wrong

[shiki]

like even here you are saying that there is repetition and yet you are still not understanding where i am coming from but i do not know exactly where the hang up may be so i do not know what to go further into or reword for you

which if you're town here i get that that is on me and not you but still need help to see where i am failing

[shiki]

i am hung up on you though yes i believed i used the same wording more or less even or rather i said i was stuck but yeah i am and if you are town i would very much like not to be

but the only way forward is through tried to see for myself and this is what i came to i could easily be wrong but i am not likely to divine that on my own

[shiki]

idk basically i'm asking you to work with me if you're town here because the 'perhaps you are doing this as a scums!!!' sort of thing while not like, actually pushing me, while also just discounting everything else i've done and town reasons i would have done those things is kinda ...

like sure if you're town maybe i could be that's fine and all but i'm not and i would like to know why you may be weighing things that way

[shiki]

In 1505 Shiki is questioning Ari’s post at 253 . I would question why isn’t that in the scum PT as opposed the main thread, would it be simpler to consider a move by Ari to line me up. In particular if you consider she may well have picked up on the that fact until this game I have mostly played in traditional format micro or mini games. And so as i said the format was causing me some concern. But I will say it takes me a while to actually start getting reads on players.

i was basically following up on something i said both in the main thread and in the neighbourhood - that that post by aristeia has striking similarities to a post i would (and have as exampled) made a scums to a partner

the intention of it is to give your partner an on ramp into the game while interacting with your partner in a +town way

idk there's a lot more to it than that i suppose

But then that’s me just speculating. What I can say is that what Shiki hasn’t taken into consideration is my response

But in reply to Ari, I was not the one who said the thread was dead, I agreed with the comment. As for your post at 251 and 252 ok, that’s you and Oppsie discussing how you play from your game experience with each other. I can only take that into consideration going forward. There is only one player in the game I have good game time with and that’s Dann, I have a little with Project and even less with Meuh. Dann is being his usually self in my experience and provides very little to me this far to take him on with. Project was the butt of a reaction test and has said little else. As for Meuh I don’t enough to make any analysis of their play. So for
Me that type of interchange is pretty much not going to happen as I see it. As for

Your lecture on how to play really? Ok I appreciate the sentiment and the help. But don’t treat me
Like a fool

i think 'no need to talkdown to me' is like, pretty standard response to me, don't know why that wouldn't potentially come from a partner

In addition she has only searched on one scum game, I think if she searches on most of my other games she may well find instances where I have said, I don’t have any reads early in most games.

i also looked at multiple completed town games which i also linked somewhere - but that was the only completed scum game i found

it isn't the lack of reads early i was commenting on in anyway it's the lack of momentum/lack of angle to your responses

like in the one town game you immediately push back in a discovery sort of way very early in that game not like you have a strong read of the player doing so but you want to know why

whereas with aristeia it was a much more passive reaction

[shiki]

Would seem this is a moot point, and really I can’t see what your logic here is anyway. Are you implying it is AI because a player messes up a VC read?

nope more stating that it was funny to me world is full of little coincidences like that and they occupy an inordinate amount of my thoughts

[shiki]

idk basically i'm asking you to work with me if you're town here because the 'perhaps you are doing this as a scums!!!' sort of thing while not like, actually pushing me, while also just discounting everything else i've done and town reasons i would have done those things is kinda ...

like sure if you're town maybe i could be that's fine and all but i'm not and i would like to know why you may be weighing things that way

What makes you think I think you are town. I’m of a mind that you are scum trying to survive the day and see me as an easy lim. Sorry but I don’t work in that way.

? i am not saying i think that you think i am town (though i do think there is a pretty decent chance that you do know that i am town), i am saying that i would like to know why you are weighing things the way you are, because without access to any of that information it becomes hard for me to see that you are town if you're town,

if i saw you as an easy elimination why wouldn't i prefer to eliminate you tomorrow if i were a scums? would need two town eliminations to win here

[shiki]

also think it would be a fine and good exercise for you to simply talk about how you are viewing the game as a whole if you assume that i am town because then it takes away that element for a bit which could be clouding my vision i suppose

[shiki]

idk though i don't really feel your view of me specifically has much to do with it regardless

[shiki]

if you were scum, which i feel you could very well be, why would you waste a day to lim me and not push me today as you are? Or are you talking about a night kill? I’m confused. Just for clarity, Your whole premise surrounds the thought that Ari placed me in the large hood so that she could bus me if needs be? And the fact that she didn’t interact with me after my push on her and vote, which I maintained throughout D1, means I am her partner?

because i would maximize overall win rate not ease of any given day as a scums and if i thought you were the easiest elimination i would much prefer to keep you alive rather than to eliminate you immediately like you could maybe argue that that scum!me is in fact pushing your here to then back off to second option (one which scum!me would have already cut myself off from somewhat) to then return tomorrow but it doesn't make sense to me that your thought would be like, scum!you just sees me as easy elimination and therefore is trying to eliminate me! when that wouldn't be most ideal path to victory

nono, she can't bus you? at least not on day 1 because that'd be auto loss

i think her interactions with you are partner indicative and some of your play reads more scum than town to me

[shiki]

like there are even parts of that that don't make sense to me (the split for instance! as i've said multiple times) but i don't know if that should outweigh all of the other things

[shiki]

nono, she can't bus you? at least not on day 1 because that'd be auto loss

but distancing certainly! as she did here

like aristeia's whole plan was probably to be eliminated and for partner to win game, i think that's pretty much a given

so her time here would then have been to look unpartnered with her partner, which how to go about that? pushing someone that'd be an autoloss if they're eliminated might be a good start, yeah?

[shiki]

And that a lot of what you are doing is using the game state to your advantage

why do you feel scum!me would have incentive to do this that town!me doesn't also have?

[shiki]

And that a lot of what you are doing is using the game state to your advantage

why do you feel scum!me would have incentive to do this that town!me doesn't also have?

like again to me this is just the assigning the scum reasoning when town reasoning fits just the same so i wonder how you are weighing one vs the other

[shiki]

(assuming you just mean the like, posting when people aren't really thing, which i do quite often as town and could give many examples and i do as scum when i think it would be advantageous to do so)

[shiki]

Ok lest look at it ina another way, how do you see Ari’s interaction’s with Meuh and Fire?

interactions with meuh are very limited as i said when reviewing them earlier - hard to make much out of them one way or another - in general avoidance is maybe ever so slightly +scum but aristeia very aware of that as well

the one interaction with fireisredsir where aristeia says she wouldn't describe her scumplay as wallpaper and then fireisredsir apologizes feels not too likely to come from partnered scums

not even really the apology and such just aristeia reading that interpretation of fireisredsir's post into it in the first place just doesn't really feel super likely to come from partnered perspective to me

though i do wanna look at fireisredsir/aristeia interactions again in a bit as i was pretty tired by the time i got to them last night

[shiki]

though i do wanna look at fireisredsir/aristeia interactions again in a bit as i was pretty tired by the time i got to them last night

okay there's maybe some amount of, convenience with the voting and wagons while fireisredsir is somewhat consistently stating a scumread of aristeia, or like, a lack of overlap not really acting on that scumread, idk, otherwise just the aforementioned section really stands out

[shiki]

[shiki]

though i do wanna look at fireisredsir/aristeia interactions again in a bit as i was pretty tired by the time i got to them last night

okay there's maybe some amount of, convenience with the voting and wagons while fireisredsir is somewhat consistently stating a scumread of aristeia, or like, a lack of overlap not really acting on that scumread, idk, otherwise just the aforementioned section really stands out

would maybe believe in fireisredsir/aristeia over meuh i guess

[shiki]

votes make more sense that way at the very least

[shiki]

Ok let’s look at the wallpaper interaction, after the apology, which I didn’t get from Ari by the way, was there further heat between the two of them, Ari & Fire. Or did it subside? I think it subsided into what you have said.

With regard to Ari and Meuh, yes I noticed that there is not a lot of interaction, and to me that would say there might be some distancing going on.

I’d go as far to say that both Fire and i were consistent with our read on Ari, the one person who was not was Meuh.

? well fireisredsir apologized for the implying that aristeia plays scum like wallpaper even though that's a pretty non-generous reading of it thus what i said before just doesn't seem super likely for a partner to read the statement - more or less townreading aristeia for actively pushing the game (by pushing you) - that way to me

there wasn't ever really heat between the two of them; fireisredsir kinda repeats a scumread of aristeia while moving between aristeia and elements at a few points but there isn't any point at which fireisredsir is really actively pushing for aristeia to be eliminated

sure in a vacuum i'd say not interacting with someone is ever so slightly +partner like i said before but all of the players involved there know this - aristeia knows and was perhaps choosing not to do so intentionally, meuh knows, so it's like, possibly an oversight sure? but not something i would put particularly much weight on in this situation

but were either of you actually trying particularly hard to eliminate aristeia? like show me where that was if so but if it's there i missed it completely

like there isn't really any reason for anyone to take 'well i scumread aristeia!!' as a reason for someone not to be partnered with aristeia, right?

[shiki]

I’d go as far to say that both Fire and i were consistent with our read on Ari, the one person who was not was Meuh.

also i'm confused by this because fireisredsir definitely moved from townreading aristeia to scumreading aristeia throughout the day

[shiki]

(which sure so did i not condemning that in anyway just saying i don't understand what you mean by consistent here)

[shiki]

I’d go as far to say that both Fire and i were consistent with our read on Ari, the one person who was not was Meuh.

and you scumread aristeia and then moved completely to pushing me as an elements partner?

[shiki]

Your interchange with Elements seemed in some extent performative, as I said that it was contrived by a partnership and played out in thread. just seemed off. Of course that partnership is not there, but it doesn’t exonerate you in my mind in anyway. But I think I need to consider my initial thoughts on Black also. I need to look at her interaction with Ari. Which I am going to do later.

okay but why does performative = scum to you? tried asking you this before and am still quite curious

[shiki]

also curious what would exonerate me in your mind because i would be happy to try that

[shiki]

also curious what would exonerate me in your mind because i would be happy to try that

Prove to me you are town. Which to be honest I hope you are and are not playing a great scum game.

eh if i were a scums here i do not think i would be playing a great or even a good game from my seat

like could have limped to day one elimination on meuh or oopsiedaisy then caught up fully at the end of the night and used that and outcome of wagon to then push for elimination (probably elements?) and then play for win here day three so if i were a scums it would be like, decided it was better to sacrifice partner who i also didn't really bother distancing from? which just seems bad yeah

anyway how would you like me to prove that i am town though? like i feel like i am pretty transparent about what i'm thinking or doing at any given time (sometimes to town's detriment as ydrasse pointed out at the end of day one - sorry again would be nice if had more info re:meuh here yeah) but i'm willing to walk you through any posts i've made or anything everyone solving from my point of view more likely to result in a town win ya know

[shiki]

VOTE: Meuh

has felt like you wanted to fold this hand for a while just can't figure out if because you were unsure or because position pretty doomed

[shiki]

I’m not sure but it seems pretty weak form my POV. Almost like she was tentatively keeping away from engaging with Black.


Why would that be, firstly from a scum POV then a Town POV?

looking at it there are a few more posts than that that weren't quotes or anything because in real time but not particularly much

i assume it's simply because aristeia and black were only both active during a couple windows and black was townreading aristeia so less reason for her to engage aristeia at length and! no reason for aristeia to really engage black because then more chance for her to see she wasn't town with little benefit as she was already townreading her

not going to go much into the possible scum pov because i know she wasn't (though it'd likely be very simply they did not see a beneficial opportunity to do so in the limited time black was here)

[shiki]

VOTE: Meuh

has felt like you wanted to fold this hand for a while just can't figure out if because you were unsure or because position pretty doomed

so hard to see process

like if you're town then my worry is that you're miseliminated or misvote me at some point thus my approach here

if you're a scums the worry is that you aren't eliminated - like the path for scum!you to get me eliminated here pretty unlikely i think

[shiki]

[shiki]

I’m not sure but it seems pretty weak form my POV. Almost like she was tentatively keeping away from engaging with Black.


Why would that be, firstly from a scum POV then a Town POV?

looking at it there are a few more posts than that that weren't quotes or anything because in real time but not particularly much

i assume it's simply because aristeia and black were only both active during a couple windows and black was townreading aristeia so less reason for her to engage aristeia at length and! no reason for aristeia to really engage black because then more chance for her to see she wasn't town with little benefit as she was already townreading her

not going to go much into the possible scum pov because i know she wasn't (though it'd likely be very simply they did not see a beneficial opportunity to do so in the limited time black was here)

Agree, but at the time Black didn’t know she was subbing out, so maybe think about it from that angle. You’re making your assumption based on that premise, one which did not exist at the time.

well no not really making that assumption based on time stamps of when they were posting when they were both here and then black was gone and the rest is based on black’s stance towards aristeia and how i assume aristeia would play around that

right like if i asked you why you haven’t been interacting with dannflor/fireisredsir/meuh for the past couple days the answer is pretty apparent yeah

like there were limited windows and there is some interaction in those windows but aristeia wouldn’t have great incentive to engage black since she was already townreading her

[shiki]

VOTE: Meuh

has felt like you wanted to fold this hand for a while just can't figure out if because you were unsure or because position pretty doomed

so hard to see process

like if you're town then my worry is that you're miseliminated or misvote me at some point thus my approach here

if you're a scums the worry is that you aren't eliminated - like the path for scum!you to get me eliminated here pretty unlikely i think

Took me a while to understand what you were saying here. But ok. Again I’m basing my decision on the lack of interaction between Ari and Black, and Meuh’s somewhat lack of drive in the thread to actually scumhunt. That’s how I am seeing it.

also if ever there’s something you’re not understanding please ask me to try to restate it is very frequent occurrence for me like a lot of my language patterns here have developed for exactly this reason - to try to be more clear

are those two separate thoughts or somehow intertwined?

[shiki]

also could you look at meuh’s unvote of oopsiedaisy i pointed out earlier and then meuh’s response to the oopsiedaisy wagon going back to e-1 a little later and let me know what conclusions you draw from that? or like, what you think scum!her would have been doing there?

[shiki]

other people's impressions of me are always so strange to me like i haven't really felt particularly motivated this game ya know like i'm a fullon zombie right now and can barely even read and there are versions of myself where my spark hasn't been sealed away in some unreachable abyss who would just read 30 games in an attempt to create a model of everyone

however! the paranoia is good if a non-me town is eliminated whoever is the scums should bring me to final three and write a case during the night and vote me at daystart i'll even help with the case if you want

[shiki]

i haven't gotten to play a final three as town in sososo long

[shiki]

(part of what is kinda !!! to me about afrayed knott's approach here is that he is also doing the like, kinda paranoid positioning towards me but i don't really understand why like not familiar with me and i haven't been doing 'good scums' things here and!! the things afrayed knott has noted with regards to me ignore the obvious things? of like, put self in position to have oversized weight on who was eliminated and then eliminated a town?)

[shiki]

like if it was black and white thing where it was like, did this thing that benefited the scums and is therefore possibly a scums!! it would still be incorrect i am simply a terrible town but at least i can see it

[shiki]

The whole interaction around daisy and the vote upvote are strange. She votes and says she wants to ‘poke here’ then invites as Ari starts to get some pressure. This is rather interesting

I'm kind of concerned about how universal the feeling the bad feelings on Ari have been, but I definitely don't adore her recent posting

well meuh was pressured and then aristeia was pressured and then meuh starts wagon on oopsiedaisy that quickly goes to e-1 at which point meuh unvotes

sure could have simply been to reset game to position with new shiny wagon and then game moves on possible yes - i know that meuh is pretty good with voting/unvoting as a scums based on past experience

however then the oopsiedaisy wagon returns a while later with aristeia putting it to e-1 and meuh saying she won't be hammering it and it is hard for my little brain to comprehend why in that exact situation if aristeia and meuh were partnered why the outcome would not have been meuh puts oopsiedaisy to e-1 and aristeia lolhammers

[shiki]

instead it feels like aristeia voting and hoping that meuh would hammer which she wouldn't be hoping for if partnered, yeah?

[shiki]

She doesn’t even look at Daisy from what I see. Then her tongue in cheek comment about her and Daisy being partner. It’s nothing probably

hm, maybe onto something with the doesn't look at oopsiedaisy tho; there is a notable lack of that in the case of either wagon really

[shiki]

hmhmhm

[shiki]

Which wouldn't be bad if the rest of his posting was town indicative but like... is it? Is it really?
When I played against scum Fire, vaguely good posting kept him off my radar until it was too late
I've been able to confidently call Fire town before, and I can't do that here

i said more or less this earlier but it's like, like yeah i've seen town!fireisredsir burn so brightly green before but i've also seen town!fireisredsir not do so as well? and the same is absolutely true about dannflor also

[shiki]

Am I crazy or is that just partnered

idk it's tough for me because i was more or less at the same decision point of eliminating elements or aristeia there and came down on the elements side as well

doesn't seem impossible to me for it to come from partners but i don't see what there strongly points to it being likely

[shiki]

it's also i think the nature of your posts feeling relatively like they have a strong direction to them. there's still a lot of asides and such, but the way in which the central flow of ideas moves feels purposeful. maybe more than i would expect it to

i think this probably comes with me being more of a zombie like instead of all of my thoughts being on top of eachother

same thing with the fact that i'm easier to communicate with when i'm braindead as well,

idk

[shiki]

what are your thoughts on ari arranging the hoods in the way she did if she’s partnered with Afrayed?

You were using that as a defense earlier on D1

still think it'd be weird for her to have done so in this way and it's the thing that makes me feel the uneasiest about an afrayed knott/aristeia pairing right now

because sending a newbie to the large neighbourhood and then pushing them and playing in the way aristeia did in general (small neighbourhood doesn't matter etc) really does seem like a lot of added pressure for partner and the split makes more sense for other partners as i said - really for any of the other three of you as you're all strong scum players - but that doesn't make the other factors go away and were afrayed knott an experienced mafia player i think aristeia's play around the slot would make a lot of sense for a partner

if they are partners i kinda wonder if aristeia asked which neighbourhood afrayed knott preferred and afrayed knott chose the large neighbourhood

i think aristeia definitely chose ydrasse to go with her obviously

but then look at the situation we are currently in which is also more or less the situation aristeia was largely playing towards throughout the game it's just a weird situation to throw a newbie into yeah? just don't know how to weigh that against other things

does it change your opinion if afrayed is a relatively experienced mafia player and is perhaps underselling his experience with the "im still learning" thing in 242 etc

this is part of what i meant with the knowingness of the questions

however the way afrayed knott played today didn't really feel like an experienced scums felt more like if scums actively did not know what to do in that situation like just pushing all-in on kinda doomed position would be more traditional scum thing to do there because it's deadended 'why would i as a scums' etc

[shiki]

still though i think it's incredibly generous to refer to "they are blatantly fabricating their reads and don't appear to have real thoughts to support the directions they're moving" as "a playstyle oriented thing"

i think in this case it's probably applicable,

yeah should have known better elimination so bad sorry elements

[shiki]

Meuh seems pretty unagended and like she isn’t really playing to endgame so yeah

eh i dunno like meuh hasn't felt like a scums to me here but i don't see how agenda or playing to endgame would present itself to you i guess

it is like, meuh only needs to do so in the absence of anyone else doing so if she is the by default elimination, yeah?

[shiki]

it is like, meuh only needs to do so in the absence of anyone else doing so if she is the by default elimination, yeah?

which i guess maybe from your point of view she may have been because you had said she was most likely and thus applied your pov to everyone else i guess

[shiki]

I guess it could just be Afrayed
Hood layouts feel questionable then but I don't think that should be like a huge factor at this point
I'm extremely scared of final 3 if I'm being real, endgames always suck for me

they still do to me as well

idk it's like, i have approximately one (1) skill as a town but i am pretty confident in my ability to solve the game correctly if the scums votes for me in final three

[shiki]

yeahp

[shiki]

The typo is a towntell

uh it wasn't a typo as much as the way i would have said it aloud lol

[shiki]

(curious as to why the typo would clear me anyway - or how you think the typo would have occurred but the answer to that one seems most likely that you did not think about it)

[shiki]

Idk my brain is more focused rn on the idea of a final 3 of like me/Dann/Fire and how we just lose that than on who scum is

does town lose that tho - i kinda want to believe everyone would come to life there

like yeah you're all strong scum players but

uh

you're all strong town players too

idk there are so many things you can do in final threes that are applicable nowhere else as well

and!! like the solution is there and yeah other things saved for later

[shiki]

not the pleasure of lovers but the pleasure of letters,
a pleasure like weather, delayed and prepared for,
not the pleasure of lessons but the pleasure of errors,
of nightmares, of actors in the black box of a theatre,
not the pleasure of present but the pleasure of later,
the pleasure of letters and weather and terror, asleep
by the lake, unable to answer, the pleasure of candles,
their wax on the table, not the pleasure of saviors
but the pleasure of errors, not the pleasure of marriage
but the pleasure of failure, the pleasure of characters
like family members, their failures and errors, their
laughter and weather, the pleasure of water, terrible
rivers, not the pleasure of empire but the pleasure
of after, our failure to keep an accurate record, not
the pleasure of tethers but the pleasure of strangers,
the terrible strangers who will become your lovers,
not the pleasure of novels but the pleasure of anger,
your failure to answer all of my letters, the pleasure
of daughters, the pleasure of daughters writing letters
in april, the failure of orchards, the terror of mothers,
not the pleasure of planners but the pleasure of errors.

~ madeleine cravens

[shiki]

My most recent endgames are:
viewtopic.php?t=90993 - Managed to obvtown and got solvy in the endgame but said solve was wrong and I lost us the game
viewtopic.php?t=91473 - Managed to solve the game and had a good grasp on who scum was, but failed to convince the other townies and was the game losing mislim in a 3-2
viewtopic.php?t=90886 - Got mislimmed at the final 5 where I wasn't very helpful in solving and mellowed down on my day 1 scumread that was just correct

I feel like you're overestimating my ability to win endgames sadly

i wish we were in a hydra thread or something so that there was a more reasonable way to discuss this at length right now away from the weight of this game but there are procedural things right like once you (and drippinggoofball) decide to vote not mafia then why not have not mafia place a vote first because if town and votes a town same outcome as you voting not mafia and if town and votes a scum more info/clear worlds maybe same outcome if you still think not mafia the more likely scums - and small danger of giving scum not mafia an opportunity to separate self from partner i guess - but pretty sure it’s +ev

[shiki]

idk i like believing in the rest of town

[shiki]

unfair for me to have thoughts on 1l game because had to be replaced and even before that i was mostly just actively damaging game more or less, so unfair for me to have any opinion there i think yeah

[shiki]

right not mafia would have voted merlyn there because solves game and then one of only two possible worlds is correct solve

[shiki]

fypov

[shiki]

or three i guess both voters world still live but unlikely

[shiki]

idk nevermind maybe hm

[shiki]

still always free i think

at least one of {not mafia, whemestar} have to be a scums so from each of their positions if town the other is confirmed mafia, so once you've decided to vote one of them should let the one you've decided to hero shoot for the partner no real risk if you're correct and they're scums and if they vote correctly confirms game to them and then you get to remake decision with complete information

[shiki]

thankyou for moderating

and good game all +)

[shiki]

given the flips i now am impressed by rather than wary of shiki's drivenness towards the correct answer here, i think that ended up convincing a lot of the town

or helped me find it at least, i can't speak for everyone

Yeah it helped me as well

Very good gameplay shiki

thankyou thankyou

[shiki]

Gg
Was a fun game until I got limmed
I stand by we should've voted in the big hood day 1

your elimination was certainly my bad but small good elimination in that situation fine and good i think

[shiki]

Gg
Was a fun game until I got limmed
I stand by we should've voted in the big hood day 1

your elimination was certainly my bad but small good elimination in that situation fine and good i think

*hood