Kemusan - Game Over

[LavarManos]

Watch this

[LavarManos]

oh perfect

[LavarManos]

Ydrasse, may I have this dance?

[LavarManos]

gn all

[LavarManos]

anyone more familiar with cabd than i am know how he generally feels about playing scum?

[LavarManos]

k well if its true that he doesn't prefer scum anymore
then i was thinking that it felt like he was staying in the thread way longer than he wanted or needed to
which is townie to me

[LavarManos]

hmm ok we'll see then
also i definitely agree that rh9 seems to be doing his own thing this game, but id like to hear why that makes him town cuz i can also see that being a playstyle thing

other than that
i see gypyx and spiffeh as town, for v similar reason to my cabd read but stronger. It actually seems like they both aren't as comfortable rolling red and they both give off p good vibes so far
and the not dog fire as scum rn
didn't rlly like his entrance and the early reads seemed a bit manufactured

[LavarManos]

ig sorta related
not super familiar with a lot of the players here, but i remember bell and i think i played with fireisred (ig this sounds better than "not dog fire")
i think i operate from the baseline assumption that someone is just more comfortable as town than scum, but is there anyone in this list who swings the other way?

[LavarManos]

Speaking of which, funnily enough, I would’ve preferred to be scum in this game, which is hella rare.

any reason why?

[LavarManos]

From that perspective, I'm glad I don't have to be on the outside of the party atmosphere. I get to have a limited shelf life, schmooze it up with old friends and new alike, then ride of to meowhalla before endgame.

Gotcha
Here's to a good one

[LavarManos]

RCE can u explain where ur bell/fb town comes from bc i don't rlly understand what u were saying in 417

I also disagree with ur LLD townread cuz I think she would definitely play into the paranoia card as either alignment.

[LavarManos]

firebringer ik u actually sr ff rn, but how serious were u at the start of the game?

[LavarManos]

if they're both town it's a goddamn waste because we've locked two suicide-happy terrorists in a single room and asked them to play nice and they won't make it to the end anyways

Ok, but at this point, there are enough pairs that "won't/can't make endgame" that this sorta loses its meaning
you-ff
firebringer-LLD
and whoever ydrasse ends up with

Personally speaking tho, I could see fire-LLD going late. From what I understand, even though they're both rlly competent scum players, but there also isn't the same desire to place a ticking bomb on their exit as there is rn for you-ff.
Basically, I do actually think this could work.

[LavarManos]

firebringer ik u actually sr ff rn, but how serious were u at the start of the game?

Pretty serious

bc ur familiar with ff as a player or bc her posts really were just that bad

[LavarManos]

Ok, cuz i was thinking about skitter's take that u and ff are partners playing the long game. I think my initial thought was that the possibility was pretty unlikely cuz i think it's weird to confidently bus ur partner right off the bat. But maybe u saw ff's opening posts as an opportunity and just decided to run with it? It's a p distant possibility, but maybe somewhat valid. skitter, i'm curious about how you'd view ff and fire's more recent interactions. Does it still looking like bussing?

fwiw fire, i feel p good about u rn and bad about ff. 765 pings of possible TMI


I'm also curious
Cabd, how much of u accepting ff's proposal is u actually townreading her compared to linking up w/ an old buddy in the hopes that she's also town and that yall could have fun solving together

[LavarManos]

it won't hurt if I propose also to cakez, right?

idk how i feel about this trend of high players being placed high on readslists for no good reason
or is there another reason u tr cakez besides him being relaxed

[LavarManos]

It's basic math and worst case scenario-ing

u were operating with the assumption that lld/fire were going to be the other pairing who went out first dance phase right
idk ig it just seemed a bit doom and gloomy to me, especially since I don't think they are at threat of getting voted out
r u concerned that one of them is going to leave

[LavarManos]

lmao I mismathed.

no i think u were right
town could be down 5 bc one lost this phase, four lost first dance

[LavarManos]

I think you all should shut up about pairs until atleast someone will die. Opinions gonna change anyway.

... It's not like i can stop you but eh.

fmpov, the presumption is that ic pair always gets nked (unless w scum), so there's no harm in discussing pairs?
Also, I think it's good to have commitments made (cabd/ff)

[LavarManos]

Currently catching up on the past twenty-ish pages

I was thinking that your last post asking about the ff scumreads seemed sorta random and wk-like
with this as context, ig its fine but im curious if ur ff read will change (also not seeing why u read her as town currently?)

[LavarManos]

Honestly you can take your pick of gyphx, RH, enchant, fireisred or STD.

idt this is how the setup works?

[LavarManos]

great game tonight but looks like i missed a lot
gonna catch up for for next hour or so

[LavarManos]

K, just a couple of thoughts
-ff seems very snappy wrt others scumreading her
@ff given that you and cabd made a "pact" to leave before intermission, how does that jive with your current attitude? I would have expected u to shrug off the scumreads instead of engaging.

-mindmelding with fire on his spiffeh scumread. idt I caught on to why exactly fire has that read
fmpov tho, spiffeh had a very analytical opening that I liked, but he's fallen off a lot since in terms of depth of analysis. Also, idt he ever explained why he townreads ff, which looks really bad if ff were to flip town

Also also, not rlly sure how to read 1274. Seems like he's just pumping some artificial doubt into his gypyx tr, but ig it is a reasonable question to ask from a town perspective too. NAI, but it did catch my eye

-I get the impression that STD is viewed as town, but it seems to be more of a silent consensus compared to people actively townreading STD for his play this game. Wondering if anyone else gets this vibe and/or if anyone actually had reasons to tr STD

-agree that bell/hst both town

[LavarManos]

I have also noticed that there are only three ladies remaining
invitation to ydrasse still stands, but i also think her pairing w/ rh9 would also be good
probably not rce/enchant imo just cuz rh9 seems the most townie
don't rlly have a townread on either cakez or fireisred atm because i think, in their own ways, they've both been a bit distant
cakez seems to be trying to engage w/ thread but his posts just don't rlly move the needle for me
fireisred's posts have "more", but it feels more like he's making observations about alignment than actively working to solve
those are just initial impressions, and I should take a closer look

[LavarManos]

Has anyone actually had any real success at reading enchant consistently?

i have had a few times where i felt reasonably confident in enchant being town and was correct. i don't think they're unreadable

how do u feel about enchant this game?

[LavarManos]

Oh yeah I also think Holy turtle is town, their posting gives me the genuine vibe of actually having fun interacting with the game that I think scum is trying to manufacture this game

So is there anyone you think is artificially manufacturing this "having fun" tone?

[LavarManos]

how do u feel about enchant this game?

ok i had in my brain that there were things that i felt were towny from enchant but i reread iso and there's basically nothing actually

807 and 808 are like a tiny bit towny coming from enchant imo but thats like it

so idk actually i think id most prefer to leave enchant out right now. they were way townier in new years dance (and did actually end up getting paired at the end): viewtopic.php?t=90239&user_select%5B%5D=35064

I get the feel that ur backtracking from an enchant townread that you never rlly declared in the first place

And ur post sorta feels all over the place with u first saying there's basically nothing towny from enchant, then quoting two minimally AI posts as towny, and then finally saying that you prefer enchant to actually be the one left out

[LavarManos]

K, just a couple of thoughts
-ff seems very snappy wrt others scumreading her
@ff given that you and cabd made a "pact" to leave before intermission, how does that jive with your current attitude? I would have expected u to shrug off the scumreads instead of engaging.

Because it grinds my gears to be misread. And getting this kind of crap continually when all I want to do help town as much as I can before I leave the game on top of being misread very much gets under my skin.

I don't want to be anywhere near elo.

So.

Why are you even asking me this?

forget about it
probably playstyle/personality diff

[LavarManos]

My fferylit townread is something I've explained a couple times, albeit nothing super substantial until recently in my post 1318 (sorry idk how to link posts anymore).

I looked back at 1318, and I still don't see anything substantial. And in that post, ur only concrete reason for townreading ff was only from something she said in 1311? That makes no sense to me given you've practically been calling ff town from the start of the game.
So why were you so confident at the start because aorn ur tr on her just seems like a phantom read

What about my interaction with the fferylit suspicion specifically makes you think that I "look bad" if she flips town?

As I said, it feels like you've been townreading her with nothing to back it up, which just is classic wk behavior

wrt to what you said about ur std read spiffeh, it seems like everyone just seems to view std as town (which he very well may be!). but it's mostly just you who was defending ff which is why that caught my eye

Still wondering why people tr std btw

[LavarManos]

Also bell i question how u went from reading rce as scum to nulltown in the span of 3 minutes
u sure u weren't just looking for reasons to townread rce or did u rlly see something good

[LavarManos]

Also bell i question how u went from reading rce as scum to nulltown in the span of 3 minutes
u sure u weren't just looking for reasons to townread rce or did u rlly see something good

Speaking of RCE, what's your take on him?

I don't townread his posts individually, but I do acknowledge the takes that he might be more inclined to position himself as scum
idk how valid that is given there are still three ladies left and that we seem to be in a point where pairings have tapered off

[LavarManos]

I iso’d them and realized I had missed some content.

anything in particular you liked b/c im not seeing anything

[LavarManos]

@Bell that caught my eye too, but most players should be able to make that post as scum so ig agree to disagree

[LavarManos]

I get the feel that ur backtracking from an enchant townread that you never rlly declared in the first place

And ur post sorta feels all over the place with u first saying there's basically nothing towny from enchant, then quoting two minimally AI posts as towny, and then finally saying that you prefer enchant to actually be the one left out

this feels very weirdly uncharitable

i have expressed that there were things i found towny from enchant (1200, 1353), but even if i hadn't, why is it scummy to show a progression from a read that hadn't been previously stated?

and "all over the place" is a nothing statement when it's like very clear that i am pointing out that the only things i see as towny from enchant add up to very little and so therefore there's no reason to townread them. the three things you are framing as different are all along the same line of thought

It's not scummy that the read wasn't previously stated, but it felt like u were sorta implying enchant town and then going back upon it once prodded more. I see now that u actually tr enchant prior, so it's still a bit suspect that now you don't
I want to make clear that it's not that u changed ur read that I thought ur post was off, but it's moreso because it seemed like you had minimal reason to tr enchant before but were acting like you did and now flipped the read just b/c i asked why.
If im being more good faith, then ig you could say my question had u reconsider. But I still don't understand how where ur read originated from in the first place. So fmpov it just looks like u cooked something up to turn on enchant and justify why u don't tr him anymore

[LavarManos]

Also if I'm scum here i don't see the value in forcing a scumread on an unpaired lady

[LavarManos]

i don't really get what about that is something you think is more likely to come from scum

aight maybe i was being uncharitable

[LavarManos]

LavarManos, can you explain if your read on fferylit changed between these two posts and if so what made you change your mind?

I def didn't like her initial couple of posts and I still don't rlly. But I still at least consider the possibility that she's town in which case ur beginning read feels bad.
It looks like ur trying to frame that as a meta thing which I would have no clue about, so if unsubstantiated early townreads is ur thing, then ig that's cool

[LavarManos]

SirCakez, may I have this dance?

[LavarManos]

I get town also wants to not get left behind and there aren't many options left but he really jumped at the opportunity to pair up as soon as someone explicitly said they would accept his request, despite not really discussing pair up options beforehand. Lol maybe I'm tunneled but he just looks like scum to me.

I didn't have time to catch up on everything I missed, but it seemed like it'd be good to move the game along w/ a proposal. I also think I've been pretty clear wrt my doubts of fireisred.

Also, RCE what's ur motivation in saying you'd like to dance w/ cakez but not actualy proposing?

[LavarManos]

Why Cakez
lol idk if i can propose to fireisred without forcing that read rn

[LavarManos]

but ig it's still optimal

fireisredsir, may I have this dance?

tonight, let the doubts be cast aside

[LavarManos]

Shoot my bad team
Anyways, Bell where does ur scumread on me even come from. It's been pretty apparent, but I can't find much reasoning besides some vague tonal things. I still think ur town, so work with me here plz.

[LavarManos]

Can you explain why you’re uncomfortable pairing with FIR and why you feel the need to force a read to pair with them.

If your aim was to pair with a townie player you kind of went about it in very flawed manner.

Cuz I don't townread him rn, and, yea, my intention was to pair w/ someone I felt was town. What I meant by force a read was that I don't want to make myself townread fireisred just b/c he's the only lady left and I wanted to pair w/ town.
The main reason I proposed is b/c fmpov ik I'm town and I'm not certain about enchant. But hey, maybe fireisred rlly is town!

[LavarManos]

You have to work with the reality life hands you not the one you would prefer.

I agree

[LavarManos]

BTW, maybe there is some personal bias seeping in
but I'm not a big fan of how RCE was sorta pushed into pairing with Cakez (and this is lowkey my own fault too lol)
fmpov, RCE was sorta hedging on the fact that he could pair with Cakez, but only went forward once there was support in the thread.
Sorta just feels like scum testing the waters, and I'm gonna call a cigar a cigar and say that he is low effort scum here

[LavarManos]

there was a gap between when RCE asked me and I actually accepted. Why didn't you say anything in between?

I wasn't online

[LavarManos]

Alright, this isn't for you Bell, but for the rest of the game in case I die

Thoughts:
firebringer/skitter - they've both pinged me positively in the sense that they both frequently produce original thoughts and question old ones. I would keep an eye on what kind of reads they're trying to push through, but none of them seem malicious so far imo

fferyllt/cabd - I still think a lot of her posts sound very manufactured and stilted, but it's growing on me more that perhaps she is just indignant town. On the other hand, I don't have as great of a grasp on Cabd. It feels like he has a lot of presence in the thread, but he doesn't seem to be solving as much comparatively. This is sort of a cop out, but my final verdict is that yall should hold them accountable and make sure they exit before intermission. I'm glad they don't seem opposed.

sircakez/gypyx - I agree w/ what spiffeh said about cakez, and fsr idt scum!cakez would care to question why I didn't say anything about rce proposing to him. Gypyx sounds p pure and genuine in questioning/attacking, and apparently is not known to enjoy scum so i think it's safe to go town here. Out of the two, I think I'm more confident in cakez being town, but I lump them together because it seems like there's noticable deviation from their typical scumgame.

std - I still have no clue why he achieved consensus town so quickly in the game, but his recent interactions w/ cabd and ff seem pretty earnest which I like. Honestly, there's a paranoia with this slot, but I can't rlly justify it so ig it's a case of more data needed

lld - Don't remember her too much recently, but probably in std tier

spiffeh - scum if ff town, town if ff scum. Ok, that's sorta lazy, but I also feel like his reads are a bit suspect (so many townreads, only me+fireisred as scum?). Keep an eye on this guy

rce - stated in prev post

bell/hst - still think this pair should endgame. Overall body of work + individual moments

rh9/ydrasse/fireisred/enchant - no comment

[LavarManos]

Good game all
thanks for modding pooky!
sorry spiffeh/fire for my bad reads on yall