Open 909 | A Newbie Game | Game Over

[DragonEater70]

I am also town! High five ketchup!

[DragonEater70]

I am also town! High five ketchup!

ow that's my plastered hand, can we try that again with my left?

\o

[DragonEater70]

i am here to provide a perfect example of what not to do in a mafia game

I will be the inverse, do everything I say and do.

Don’t listen to what ketchup has to say about this

I, for one, will be completely orthogonal to the axis of "should do" vs "shouldn't do". Instead I'm just gonna do whatever I feel is fun to do.

[DragonEater70]

And for my first move (or technically second, the first move was giving ketchup a high five), I'm gonna try and pocket halfasleep.

*ahem*

Wow halfasleep you're so towny and funny! I loved your welewolf joke haha haha

(do you think she bought it?)

[DragonEater70]

do dragons have a comfy pouch like a kangaroo?

Unfortunately not but I like to wear jackets with huge pockets if that helps

[DragonEater70]

And for my first move (or technically second, the first move was giving ketchup a high five), I'm gonna try and pocket halfasleep.

*ahem*

Wow halfasleep you're so towny and funny! I loved your welewolf joke haha haha

(do you think she bought it?)

That only works on me!

Don't worry there's enough

drugged candy

compliments for everyone.

Also wow Kay you are so towny today. And I like your hair!

[DragonEater70]

Okay I have an idea

Let's meme until the end of page 7 and then play the game or something.

I won't be part of it though becayse I'm either going to sleep or typing up some wallpost on another forum and then going to sleep.

[DragonEater70]

Okay why the hell am I second to last with post counts, that's not supposed to happen usually I'm second from the top.

Pedit: you caught me virgo, now. I have to OMGUS.

VOTE: JakesonLeo

Pedit again: guys stop posting for a moment I'm trying to post here

Pedit 3: yup

Pedit 4: uh uh

Pedit 5: STOP ITTTTTT!!!12!!1!1

[DragonEater70]

Alright goodnight for realsies

[DragonEater70]

Hey we're on page 8

Serious reads time: ketchup is town.
Hmm that's all I've got for now.

[DragonEater70]

I think the wagon that's most protown right now is a wagon on Virgo

And that's not a scumread on him as much as a really persistent lack of a townread.

[DragonEater70]

Also yeah I lied about falling asleep oh well

[DragonEater70]

Nah I've come back to make a contribution, it was pretty much ignored, now it's sleepytime. Also if HA is sleeping I better be sleeping too because that cat's got insomnia or so I hear.

[DragonEater70]

help i'm locked in RvS mode

Gonna ignore the rest of your post. What do you think about my TR of you? What do you feel about putting a serious vote on Jackson / who else would you consider putting a serious vote on?

[DragonEater70]

I'm staunchly oposed to RVS longer than a few pages. The fact we're still in RVS on page 12 is really meh.

[DragonEater70]

Ha

Btw JV, I abbreviated halfasleep's name exactly once, the other times it was supposed to be fake laughing.

Anyway StraightFlush help me build a semi-serious wagon which as it builds up will generate alignment indicative content.

[DragonEater70]

That's not the point, I just dislike having to read pages upon pages of fluff and I'm sure if someone reps in they'd dislike it too.

[DragonEater70]

Kay who are ypu least townreading? Amd how serious is your Jack townread?

[DragonEater70]

I don’t have any serious reads if we’re actually playing for realsies now. I don’t know how I was supposed to analyze all that fun we were having.

You weren't supposed to

analyze

, but there are such things as instincts. For example I just feel like ketchup has been the polar opposite of self-conscious and I find that towny. Of course I might he totally wrong but I am going to stick to that read until more content gets generated.

Not unreasonable. VOTE: Ydrasse

I find it interesting how narrow she chose to make the scope of her involvement in RVS.

VOTE: Ydrasse

[DragonEater70]

Actually

VOTE: halfasleep

[DragonEater70]

help i'm locked in RvS mode

Gonna ignore the rest of your post. What do you think about my TR of you? What do you feel about putting a serious vote on Jackson / who else would you consider putting a serious vote on?

help i'm locked in RvS mode

Gonna ignore the rest of your post. What do you think about my TR of you? What do you feel about putting a serious vote on Jackson / who else would you consider putting a serious vote on?

townreading me is always wiseeeee
why would I put a serious vote on Jackson when he’s not in my scumleans rn?

I could vote you or Ydrasse or Flush or Zach

Wait so you are saying I am wise. Can you sheep a wise person and vote half asleep w me?

Also feel free to explain your scum leans assuming they're not just pure gut.

[DragonEater70]

I can vibe with that tbh, selfvoting during RVS can be a sign of scum trying to avoid making enemies by accident.

VOTE: halfasleep

HA also voted for 3 people before voting herself tho

I'm probably not as confident in this as DE is but I didn't see anyone else selfvoting twice, and I do think selfvoting is more often than not a bit sus. So it's a fine lead to drum up a bit of serious content, which we do need now

I get the point, but wouldn't it have been better for her to just vote for someone at random? It's less noticeable, and no one would really take the vote seriously

No she's trying to look carefree and funny by intentionally doing "noticeable" things, but it feels forced. Also scum don't win by not being "noticeable", they win by being more townread than somebody else.

[DragonEater70]

I want a ketchup flush dragon towncore right now

These are super weak reads atm but like I'll take what I can get, need to get the game out of rvs hell

[DragonEater70]

I can vibe with that tbh, selfvoting during RVS can be a sign of scum trying to avoid making enemies by accident.

VOTE: halfasleep

HA also voted for 3 people before voting herself tho

I'm probably not as confident in this as DE is but I didn't see anyone else selfvoting twice, and I do think selfvoting is more often than not a bit sus. So it's a fine lead to drum up a bit of serious content, which we do need now

I get the point, but wouldn't it have been better for her to just vote for someone at random? It's less noticeable, and no one would really take the vote seriously

No she's trying to look carefree and funny by intentionally doing "noticeable" things, but it feels forced. Also scum don't win by not being "noticeable", they win by being more townread than somebody else.

Ok but how does it help with that?

The fact you're townreading her proves that it's a good strategy

[DragonEater70]

Or at least, skeptical of a vote on her

[DragonEater70]

If she's scum, the fact that what she tried to do failed doesn't mean she didn't try to do it. I just think I've never seen you vote Day 1 on this site and I think you shpuld be less skeptical of votes. You can always unvote later.

[DragonEater70]

Do you have anyone you'd prefer voting for?

[DragonEater70]

Hmm I seem to have missed these somehow:

do dragons have a comfy pouch like a kangaroo?

Unfortunately not but I like to wear jackets with huge pockets if that helps

Same, most jackets have huge pockets though. Unless ur not talking proper jackets which in that case I am disappointed

I mean you're right but I'm like 60% sure girl jackets have smaller pockets because fashion designers think that pockets are for men only. And also there's hoodies with the really huge pockets you can put both hands into, and I was referring to those, but I forgot the word hoodie existed.

do dragons have a comfy pouch like a kangaroo?

Unfortunately not but I like to wear jackets with huge pockets if that helps

unacceptable. pocket respectfully declined.

Oh yeah that's another scum point for you. Town doesn't just decline pockets like this.
But just to make sure, are you saying if I were a kangaroo you'd be pocketed??? Because like I'd definitely become a kangaroo if so, pocketing scum is the best.

[DragonEater70]

Oh yay does that mean you agree with my town core?

[DragonEater70]

Oh yay does that mean you agree with my town core?

Dragon do you have scumreads other then halfasleep?

No. Should I have?

[DragonEater70]

Ha

Btw JV, I abbreviated halfasleep's name exactly once, the other times it was supposed to be fake laughing.

Anyway StraightFlush help me build a semi-serious wagon which as it builds up will generate alignment indicative content.

Not unreasonable. VOTE: Ydrasse

I find it interesting how narrow she chose to make the scope of her involvement in RVS.

how does interesting equate to being a vote worthy behavior in this instance

Hi Ydra I don't think I've ever read you successfully and I'm interested in starting to read you successfully. Any tips and tricks?

Alternatively if that's boring, here's a different question: if you had to give each player in this game a warrior cat name what would you name each one?

[DragonEater70]

Yes, because it helps me
No, because it's the beginning of the first day and it will be pretty random for you

How does knowing my scumreads help you if you aren't gonna sheep them either way?

And why would it be "random" from me to have scumreads? I often have gut reads early in games we play on the group chat.

[DragonEater70]

I'll be munching on popcorn from the sidelines watching Ydra cooking

[DragonEater70]

I'm calling sleepy sleepy!

[DragonEater70]

Okay I'm going to wear the "newbie-friendly veteran" hat for a second.

With regards to transitioning into serious game playing, there are two approaches:
1. Hop on a wagon. Pretty simple and self explanatory. Doesn't even have to be someone you heavily scumread, but preferably not on your strongest TR unless you are a troll. I personally recommend a naked vote on halfasleep but it could also be anyone else, even me.
2. Force a townread on someone (or a scumread but these tend to be wrong early) and just post it with reasoning
secret third approach:
3. Question non-serious reads/votes other people made as if they were serious and force them to pretend they were serious and BAM the game is now serious.

[DragonEater70]

uh

nice OMGUS

[DragonEater70]

Oh yay does that mean you agree with my town core?

you’re desperate to be seen in the towncore eh?

No? I just want to have friends

[DragonEater70]

you say you want to get out of meaningless fluff yet then put it back in with warrior cat names (not that I’m opposed to having fun…). what gives?

Is this real criticism bruh

I made like 10 content posts and 1 fluff post and it had a second part that wasn't fluff

[DragonEater70]

aw I’m sowwy we can be friends

Yay!

[DragonEater70]

uh

nice OMGUS

thanks!

You're welcome <3

[DragonEater70]

Btw I haven't counted but there's a real chance I'm at E-1 so please no more votes on me before Dann makes a VC thanks.

[DragonEater70]

Inb4 ketchup777 claims that the above post is "survivalistic"

[DragonEater70]

Dragon kinda subtly telling us to stop posting anything by page 8. imo rapid RVS is better than stagnation

That's a wild take. I said let's change gear (and play MORE) by page 8

Rapid RVS where all the posts are memes isn't gonna advance us closer to solving the game and you should know that. And it's wild to think I said we should just stagnate.

Also if you had tried to read my posts with an unbiased viee instead of assuming I'm scum you'd know I'm the person who has singularly pushed bardest for the game to exit RVS and for people to get solvin'. So like I have no idea what you're talking about.

Pedit: yes he's town. He's just very very wrong.

[DragonEater70]

Ugh

I'm done with this conversation. If you wanna twist my words then you do you

[DragonEater70]

I didn’t feel the need to explain myself to someone that referred to me as a child.

And I believe I’ll get the information I need from this vote either way.

FWIW I don't think Ydra was calling you a child

[DragonEater70]

Surely you should know unsolicited advice like yours in this context shuts more doors than it opens, it feels borderline condescending

Uh

What


Ydra was giving a newer player some play advice in good faith. How is it condescending.

you are in a game for new players and i’m going to give advice im unsure what else you could expect from something like this

Yeah basically this.

[DragonEater70]

I’m not sure how I feel about dragon, a lot of their posts keeping pulling me in two different directions

Feel free to explain your thoughts on that. Maybe it can help you make up your mind, and at the very least it could help me sort you.

[DragonEater70]

Uh

So you guys are seriously going to try to read into a freaking comment about why I dislike pages of fluff

Okay yeah I think I should just take a 24 hour break from this thread

[DragonEater70]

I think dragon is town, but he's annoying to read
Straightflush and jackson also town
All the others idk

Can you sheep me? It usually works for you.

[DragonEater70]

We both said it was NAI…

I know, but the conclusion wasn't my problem as much as three different people (you, JV, ketchup) twisting random stuff I said to mean something different than what I meant. It was very annoying.

[DragonEater70]

I did have my break though so now I feel pretty meh about it. Anyway 3 people are voting me and their cases kinda suck and also nobody really engaged with my case on halfalseep except Purple who said they're not sure either way so it would be nice if someone engaged with me.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I do.

Okay let me engage with you about your read of me.

I still think it's wild to read "let's start playing the game seriously after page 7" as "let's stop posting after page 7". Additionally I don't think wanting people to post less is even close to scum-indicative. Scum want chaos and confusion while town want a readable thread that they can, you know, READ and use to find scum. A lot of fluff/spam makes it HARDER to read.

Do you disagree with this? If yes please explain why and if not please explain why you're voting me.

[DragonEater70]

I don’t think it was twisting your words so much as our own interpretation of what you said. Remember that we aren’t in your head and might have taken something from what you said that you didn’t mean. It doesn’t mean it was purposefully or maliciously done. Think of when I responded about being called a child and you said it wasn’t meant that way. Do you think I was twisting words then or do you think I misunderstood? I think you just assume the worst when it’s about things you say, when you should be giving the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps you're right

[DragonEater70]

Kay do you have a read on anyone except Jack and Ydra?

[DragonEater70]

Okay makes sense. Would you be willing to vote Skitter with me? And also can you explain the basis of your Ydra scumread?

[DragonEater70]

Welcome Skitter btw! I'm town this time but you might be scum unfortunately (or maybe not! In which case this game is gonna be interesting)

[DragonEater70]

Glad KJQ brings up the sleepslot. I’ve never been in a game with non-prelynch subs before, do you guys tend to reset your reads on a slot if someone new fills it?

Usually a mix - I'm not gonna hard tunnel Skitter, I wanna give her a chance, but I'm also not gonna forget my scumread on her slot.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah I do.

Okay let me engage with you about your read of me.

I still think it's wild to read "let's start playing the game seriously after page 7" as "let's stop posting after page 7". Additionally I don't think wanting people to post less is even close to scum-indicative. Scum want chaos and confusion while town want a readable thread that they can, you know, READ and use to find scum. A lot of fluff/spam makes it HARDER to read.

Do you disagree with this? If yes please explain why and if not please explain why you're voting me.

true I have felt outfluffed in my first game, but it came from townies (Gypyx and Jackson) while scum were more nudging the votes in the background. so while intuitivitely what you say makes sense, based on my small sample size of 1 (lol) I have not seen that happen yet. anyway, a hard to follow thread is also more work for scum to read all of it and fake reads, right? also if people have less to analyse, that's good for the scum.

I admit I changed what you said a little bit, but equally it just felt weird to ask us to play the game seriously when it had been like an hour.

Yeah that's a very small sample size. Here's a counter example of a game with A LOT of posts (not necessarily all fluff but a lot of spam), where the posts mainly came from scum and town lost: viewtopic.php?t=90686

[DragonEater70]

Also, maybe it felt weird to ask you to play the game seriously when it's only been an hour, but I have done it as town before: viewtopic.php?p=14127562#p14127562

[DragonEater70]

Okay makes sense. Would you be willing to vote Skitter with me? And also can you explain the basis of your Ydra scumread?

I don’t think I ever said I scumread Ydra. I voted her but purposely didn’t explain why.

I will say I didn’t vibe with her fluff contributions though. I preferred yours more even though they were somewhat critical near the end.

Gotcha. So are you planning to stick with the vote? What are you planning to achieve with it?

[DragonEater70]

Also, maybe it felt weird to ask you to play the game seriously when it's only been an hour, but I have done it as town before: viewtopic.php?p=14127562#p14127562

Ahh so you just hate fun!

Of course!

[DragonEater70]

Why would I like fun? Do I seem like a fun-loving person? Do I look like someone who enjoys playing games? Don't be silly!

[DragonEater70]

Fair enough! Though this wasn't me asking you to move your vote, I just wanted to understand your thoughts.

[DragonEater70]

I've read the last few pages and nothing's really stood out to me. And I also kinda get the feeling that nothing is especially standing out to anyone else and everyone is waiting on

something

interesting to happen.

So I'm down to start a flashwagon on someone. Ideally it's going to be skitter but tbh I'd vote anyone that's no me, ketchup, or SF. Who wants to wagon?

[DragonEater70]

As I said, the way she spoke felt awkward like she was trying to look like she doesn't care about what other people think about her but it felt a bit fake. Also I did not like her OMGUS vote at all.

[DragonEater70]

Her meaning halfasleep not skitter to be clear.

Also all my reads are extremely weak reads and I have to confess I'm exaggerating my read on halfasleep because otherwise I'll be left without anyone to vote and be very sad.

[DragonEater70]

Does that mean you're on for starting a wagon?

[DragonEater70]

ketchup, a beacon of towniness in a sea of nullness, talk to me.

If I were confirmed town from your POV who would you vote instead?

[DragonEater70]

Having just verified the meaning of the term threadspew (which basically means a situation where if everyone has a town read on someone that means they're probably town), I feel semi confident in declaring that ketchup is threadspewed as town. Not that it helps simce he was already obvtown, but like I'm now going to treat him as a third mason.

[DragonEater70]

I like dragon trying to move the game out of RVS quite a lot actually. That went on far too long

It actually didn’t time-wise. Maybe post wise from a few days later perspective but at the time, it wasn’t “too long” to anyone participating.

I know but post wise can be as important as time wise, if not even more important, for thread health.

[DragonEater70]

Shhhhhh

[DragonEater70]

No. Thread health is a term for how easy the game is for town-aligned players to engage with. Good thread health is pro town cause when townies engage unhindered, their chances of solving the game increases.

[DragonEater70]

StraightFlush if you think someone has softclaimed, it's generally optimal not to draw attention to it as it may help scum direct their kills. That said, no comment on whether or not that was a claim.

[DragonEater70]

Like I said, I believe I’m getting what I need from the vote.

What are you getting out of it

What I need lol

What do you need lol

[DragonEater70]

StraightFlush if you think someone has softclaimed, it's generally optimal not to draw attention to it as it may help scum direct their kills. That said, no comment on whether or not that was a claim.

That wasn’t soft my guy

Not my point

[DragonEater70]

Hmmmmmm that seems circular but okay

[DragonEater70]

If nobody jumps on the half a skitter wagon, I may need to pretend I have a scumread on somebody else and start a new wagon. I'm giving it 12 hours tops before I change my vote I guess.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: DragonEater70

How dare you cast your dragon voodoo magic on us

More >.>

What is the meaning of this post?

[DragonEater70]

Okay makes sense. Would you be willing to vote Skitter with me? And also can you explain the basis of your Ydra scumread?

Why are you asking? Just vote her

I'm already voting skitter my dude, and have been for a while

[DragonEater70]

Hmmmmmm that seems circular but okay

Yeah it is, because Im purposefully dodging the question lol

You can only keep your intentions about this stuff to yourself for so long before it starts to get anti-town. I believe I mentioned the same thing to yessiree in that normal and the same applies here

You shouldn't be talking about ongoing games (site rule)

[DragonEater70]

Jackson stop.

Your commenting on my posts has 0 value. If you think I'm scum vote me. I don't think you think I'm scum though.

[DragonEater70]

Preemptively answering that it has 0 value because you are complaining about things that are false, such as me "not voting skitter" when I have, or me "not starting a wagon" when the only person with more than 1 vote right now is myself, and my only townreads voting me. Idk how you expect me to start a wagon like this.

[DragonEater70]

I'm not "blabbing on about how important it is to start a wagon". I'm literally voting the only person I feel good about voting. So stop misrepresenting the situation please.

[DragonEater70]

If nobody jumps on the half a skitter wagon, I may need to pretend I have a scumread on somebody else and start a new wagon. I'm giving it 12 hours tops before I change my vote I guess.

Why are you always saying things like this, just do them or your words and vote mean nothing

Because I've already done it???

[DragonEater70]

I am already voting skitter. I still have some hope someone is going to join me so I'm not voting elsewhere. That's all.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Jackson

Finally, a wagon.

[DragonEater70]

i don't agree with any of your bottom 3 but ok

it kinda feels to me like you have arbitrarily decided to scumread certain people and townread others and that you have dug up your heels into the ground with regards to your reads and are not willing to reconsider. Respectfully, I'd advise that if you want to become a better player, you should consider reconsidering.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: DragonEater70

Finally, a dragon.

M8 you were already voting me

[DragonEater70]

i don't agree with any of your bottom 3 but ok

it kinda feels to me like you have arbitrarily decided to scumread certain people and townread others and that you have dug up your heels into the ground with regards to your reads and are not willing to reconsider. Respectfully, I'd advise that if you want to become a better player, you should consider reconsidering.

It seems like you disagree with his reads and are telling him he’s wrong. I don’t think it has anything to do with him being a good player or not. This post definitely feels condescend-y. How do you know he’s not willing to reconsider his reads? To assume you know better than anyone else right now is very odd to me. And to tell him that he needs to basically change his reads to be a better player is kind of ridiculous.

No, I am not just disagreeing with his reads. I am disagreeing with his approach to the game. I have provided reasons for why his read was wrong, and he has dismissed them. Prior to that he basically made fun of my frustration with his approach to reading me and the game, an approach that in a world where I am town (which happens to be this world) is completely unconstructive. My complaint is not that he disagrees with me but that he has completely dismissed any worldview different than his own, and for no good reason at that.

Is calling it out condescending to him? Maybe a bit. But I also happen to know that I am town and that his play isn't helping him, or any other player on the side of town, to solve the game. So even if it's a bit condescending, yes I'm going to call him out. I am not asking him to change his reads to be a better player, I am asking him to change him approach to be a better player.

[DragonEater70]

Okay let me put this differently:

If Ketchup777 is a scumhunting god and has caught scum (me), then he should not be sitting twiddling his thumbs while nothing is happening and instead should be writing cases convincing people to vote me. If he is NOT a scumhunting god then I think he should be showing more willingness to consider the possibility he is wrong.

As he is not doing either of these things, I'm calling out his play as bad.

[DragonEater70]

So this is just about his read on you? The way it was framed you seemed to also be admonishing his townreads as well but I didn’t see you give reasoning why those were “wrong”. I guess that’s where my frustration was, mostly. But also, yeah, I didn’t love the condescension towards a newer player (not as new as the rest of us, but still) just because he isn’t townreading you the way you think you deserve. (I’ve been in that position and it’s not fun at all)

No, it's not just the read on me. I gave it as an example.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon what do u think of jackson?

I dunno

I think he has been treating solving this game disingenuously but I don't know if that makes him scum because I think he can look very genuine as scum (and also I'm not really sure what's the scum motivation for his actions right now unless he's like coasting on a mislim or something). So I dunno. But I still don't townread him regardless of the above so I'm willing to vote just for the sake of voting.

[DragonEater70]

Don't like jackson's back-and-forth with dragon, at all, and their rvs felt somewhat forced to me

Like I agree with this I'm just not sure if it makes them scum but it also doesn't make them town.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Jackson

Finally, a wagon.

Want a cookie?

Yes I would like a cookie! Can I have a chocolate chip cookie please?

[DragonEater70]

As a friend, I think you need to soften up. This entire game you’ve felt like you had a stick up your ass, it’s not even anything ketchup is doing wrong. He’s playing the game, the way he wants to play it. Why are you not assuming this might be coming from a wolf? You did this with me as well. It seems your base assumption is that people are town, and all behaviour that you feel is wrong is still coming from town.

I'm not assuming it's coming from a wolf because I don't think it's wolf indicative?

[DragonEater70]

I agree I need to soften up. The post I've written about ketchup that you and Kay called condescending was a softened iteration of a much harsher post. I'm going to try to soften up further though.

On the other hand, I really do believe that he is doing things that are bad play if he is town, and I don't think I should be disallowed to express that? Like maybe he is just scum, I dunno, but right now I don't see it.

[DragonEater70]

Your vote isn’t giving me pressure, especially when you explicitly say that its for nothing more than vanity

I’ll give you some advice. Put your backbone behind everything. Exaggerating if you need to. Fake it all until you make it.

Saying it’s vanity, showing the weakness behind the read makes it meaningless

I don't really think my vote is for "vanity" but okay. I am gonna try a different approach later. UNVOTE:

[DragonEater70]

Dragon’s posts feels like he’s posting to fit his townmeta rather than posting naturally

Explain this thought?

I have committed myself to some early tonal reads, but there hasn’t been much activity yet to make reconsidering make sense. If you town post I’ll pick up on it

hmmmm

Thanks for the headsup I am now going to intentionally imitate how scum!me posts to get townread and then you are going to think that it's me townposting. (and when I say "now" I actually mean "when I am less demotivated", probably tomorrow)

[DragonEater70]

Jackson could you please explain what is your read of me?

Pedit: lol

[DragonEater70]

Okay here's some townposting for you ketchup

[DragonEater70]

Okay here's some townposting for you ketchup

Wut?

Wut wut

I said that, announcing the beginning of my townposting. It's not my fault that writing a huge towny wall takes timeeee

[DragonEater70]

Hmm maybe the original reads on sleepy-slot weren’t crazy. It’s feeling like skitter is backing a town she thinks might be mislimmed because she knows he’s town. I just don’t see how she’s not seeing what we’re seeing and only seeing “town”. Which is not to say dragon can’t be town but to have no skepticism right now is odd.

I actually agree with you lol

I actually think the way skitter is treating me right now is almost perfectly a mirror of how I treated her in Fruit Mafia, where I was scum and basically pocketed her by hard defending her and saying "I find skitter towny I don't get why any of you are voting her she's so obviously town". So I could see her being scum and literally doing the same thing, especially cause her defense of me is kidna weak and unconvincing. Here's a link to Fruit Mafia for reference (specifically to when I started white knighting her): viewtopic.php?p=13876356#p13876356

It's like eerily similar IMO.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: skit

Sorry if you are the only town who's reading me correctly lol (also sorry straightflush for ignoring you but I'm feeling betrayed after you voted me)

[DragonEater70]

Oh that game, i remember that!

I think you're town here, and don't really get the suspicion, so i'm stating that, yes

That's fair, cause I'm also not getting the suspicion

ughhhh I want you to be town more than I think you are town but whatever UNVOTE:

[DragonEater70]

i don’t feel like straightflush is putting in a genuine effort as per my cherrypicked examples to solve and his dragon vote was nasty because it’s a jokey add on to a real push that was happening that absolves responsibility

I agree with this last part

VOTE: flush

[DragonEater70]

To be clear I do think skitter's townread of me makes sense for town her to have, I just think that maybe she'd put more effort / be more earnest in defending me if she was town and really believed it

[DragonEater70]

i don’t really think skitter is town
half’s contributions to the game were fine and seem excitable new player enjoying the atmosphere there wasn’t any awkwardness in how they interacted w people

skitter is defending a townread that i think is probably correct im not 100% on dragon being town but i think dragon is being moody in a way he wouldn’t as wolf

I am confused by how the first sentence works with the rest of the post and/or with the vote on flush (unless it's a typo?)

[DragonEater70]

Ydra is my third strong townread though

[DragonEater70]

Or I guess second because I'm voting StraightFlush now

[DragonEater70]

Ydra is my third strong townread though

i thought you couldn’t read me well

I think as a rule I can't read you well. That doesn't mean there couldn't be exceptions (also I could be wrong obviously)

[DragonEater70]

okay so why do you think i am town

you do realize how it looks saying that after causing a wagon that is now competing with yours i assume lol

Well that's kinda part of the reason I think you are town? I know I'm town, so creating a competing wagon is +town. I don't get what scum would get out of doing that when you could just coast and nobody would care.

Also I think it's towny to try to move forward the game forward because it has felt really stale, regardless of the fact that there was an E-1 wagon on me.

[DragonEater70]

Looks like Dragon didn’t want to be wagoning one of the only people defending him, scum or not. So he jumped on the next wagon he saw.

What do you mean by "scum or not" here?

[DragonEater70]

Are you saying I'm not voting her regardless of her alignment?

[DragonEater70]

Okay let me explain

I don't think skitter is town. I also don't think she's scum. I don't have a strong read either way (are you noticing a trend here????)

However I feel like not voting her and voting with her is useful for me in developing my reads. You could say I'm in self preservation mode and that won't even be incorrect, as I was literally at E-1 and I don't feel like getting limmed today when barely nothing has happened and I don't trust town to find scum tomorrow because I myself have 0 clue who scum are. But aside from being in self preservation mode I'm also in "I really want to do something other than vote people I don't feel strongly about" mode, and voting skitter is not gonna help with that while voting straightflush is.

[DragonEater70]

you do realize how it looks saying that after causing a wagon that is now competing with yours i assume lol

Do you think it's scummy to townread a person who is defending you?

[DragonEater70]

Okay my bad I just realized that skitter was one of the people on me in the last vc and that she unvoted before Jack voted.

[DragonEater70]

WDYM by optics?

[DragonEater70]

So you now feel strongly about straightflush? When did that happen? Before or after the wagon on him started?

After, as I read Ydra's case and agreed with it.

[DragonEater70]

No and I'm surprised you are asking because I've said this like a hundred times. I don't have any strong feelings on anyone. I townread ketchup and Ydra and that's it.

[DragonEater70]

The whole towncore thing I saw you doing somewhere else yet putting yourself into it when no one was townreading you felt like you were trying to shape the towncore rather than build it for the town‘s benefit

...

Do you realize that as town I am going to automatically include myself in any towncore? What's the point of trying to create a towncore and exclude myself from it?

[DragonEater70]

hem+dragon I misread your slot from both of you. so oops that’s on me

No problem (I just saw this now). It happens. But! Try and learn from it.