Open 908: Aureal Is Hoarding All The Game Names | Game Over

[Black]

sup clodpoles

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Black]

PC is going to have the game solved by page 3

[Black]

I feel like it would have been more beneficial to you if you had waited for implosion to post more before outting the read. Posting it just to post it even though it was pointless doesn't really seem like you cared much about figuring out his alignment

[Black]

Also since you are here what do you think about scum habits? will they change or stay the same?

I think it largely depends on the player and the habit. I think some scum habits are more prevalent than others

I'm not really inclined to believe your page 1 meta case tbh

[Black]

Posting it just to post it even though it was pointless doesn't really seem like you cared much about figuring out his alignment

Agreed, but do you think PC scum goes in on the LAMIST play that doesn’t even look a little bit town?

Not really. I felt performative vibes when I first read it but it felt like the kind of performative that probably comes from town

[Black]

Also since you are here what do you think about scum habits? will they change or stay the same?

I think it largely depends on the player and the habit. I think some scum habits are more prevalent than others

I'm not really inclined to believe your page 1 meta case tbh

no case I'm trying to figure out if mafia or town worst does what they did with the serious vote.

If you're trying to figure out his alignment by solely using meta then you're probably going to have a hard time

[Black]

quack

[Black]

VOTE: Klick

I kind of don't like that vote

also aside from a maybe Black town am not getting much out of this yet

Hmm.

What is your take on this?

[Black]

Tbf he said I was maybe town, not very town

I had a similar thought regarding him calling out Klick but not you

[Black]

I’m voting black because I don’t think she thinks the pc line of questioning actually leads anywhere, btw.

What line of questioning?

[Black]

This line, black. It seems like something you’re pushing because you think you should be pushing something rather than because you think it’s going to give you real ai information. Am I wrong?

Yeah you're wrong. I'm not even pushing anything there

[Black]

Yeah you're wrong. I'm not even pushing anything there

Miscommunication there, I think. I’m saying pushing as in “you’re poking at pc to do things” rather than “you’re presenting the argument/narrative that pc is scum”.

My initial comment was meant to gauge a reaction from PC but the rest was just me answering his questions followed by a comment about meta. I wasn't expecting to get much out of it

[Black]

Why do you scumread me Dann?

[Black]

VOTE: Klick

I kind of don't like that vote

also aside from a maybe Black town am not getting much out of this yet

why black Town?

why black Scum?

[Black]

generally you're making a fair number of posts but it doesn't really feel like you're trying to find scum yet, you're still sitting on your first RVS vote too. this is all like *fine* it's still early but idk some stuff has happened now

This feels eerily similar to the push you made against me in Normal 1102. Granted you were scum in that game so it was in bad faith but I'm surprised you seem to have an issue with my early game pacing after that game. I'm doing my thang like I normally do

I also felt like your reaction to bingle was more focused on dismantling his reason for pushing you rather than like, using the opportunity to try to get inside bingle's mind

I have some thoughts about the way Bingle framed my "line of questioning" and my "push" but I haven't really come to a conclusion on the situation yet

Do you have any inklings of reads yet?

Lean town on PC, lean scum on the worst. I think their vote feels the worst (heh) out of everyone on me

can you say more about why PC's performativity seems like it comes from town?

Posting something pointless just to show that I had a townie thought process is something I would do as town but not so much as scum

[Black]

There's not much there other than I feel like the way they re-entered the thread and got on my wagon feels opportunistic

I do like 91 though because I can relate

[Black]

Dann I think you scumreading me for not trying to find scum less than 24 hours into the game is a little unfair, especially considering I've engaged with PC, Bingle, and now I'm attempting to engage with the worst. This is how I typically try to get reads early. I don't understand what your issue is exactly

[Black]

I can definitely see where thread seeming-consensus is coming from atm; I can jive with PC town and also worst town to some degree and also with Black being sketchy, but i'm not gonna go as far as scummy right now

Can you explain your read on me?

[Black]

Dann I think you scumreading me for not trying to find scum less than 24 hours into the game is a little unfair, especially considering I've engaged with PC, Bingle, and now I'm attempting to engage with the worst. This is how I typically try to get reads early. I don't understand what your issue is exactly

if you really think this is unfair or reminiscent of my scum game push on you im not sure why you don't instantly think i might be scum for it like you did in our last game together

I'm struggling to imagine scum!you doing the exact same thing this game, especially considering the result from the last game. There's the WIFOM argument of maybe you're doing it for that very reason but right now I think I'm leaning towards this being a genuine albeit wrong read

[Black]

I’m townleaning Black, for the record.

What's the point of saying this?

[Black]

VOTE: Bingle

I think 120 is contrarian just for the sake of getting townread. Like an "I could easily pile on Black here but I'm not" type thing. I feel like Bingle would be more interested in confronting others about their Black reads if he were town. This combined with the way he framed my conversation with PC earlier makes me think something is off

[Black]

Eh. I'm not particularly interested in confronting Dann yet, no

What I meant was I would expect you to question the validity of the scumreads on me when multiple people joined the wagon for little to no reason. You didn't seem interested in sorting my wagon at all despite thinking I might be town

[Black]

I will say, the reason I'm townreading you is that my impression of your town game is that you're aggressive and pushy and don't really have a thing you want to be doing behind that and my impression of your scumgame is that you're aggressive and pushy and have a goal. This feels more like the former, and so I think you're town

It wouldn't be a game of Mafia if someone didn't try to meta read me in the first several pages

Like I'm happy you reached the right conclusion but it's just such a weak reason to stand on and I'm not even sure if I believe that you believe this

[Black]

I somewhat agree
I felt meh about doing it at the time but wasn't sure what else to do and wanted to do something productive
And then ceejay came up and made himself a much better option

Why is ceejay scum?

[Black]

I'm liking ceejay I think. I like 167 in particular because I also felt like Klick's read was a little forced so it's nice to see that ceejay is also finding an issue with it

Bingle's responses to me have been fine. Good enough to want to move on for now

VOTE: Klick

e-2 I believe

[Black]

Yep I like 133 because him not seeing Bingle's naked vote was my guess for why he didn't find an issue with it if he's town

I think there's an air of honestly in his posts but that's pretty much just a gut read

[Black]

Klick I think your read is super nuanced and detailed and it feels a little unnatural

[Black]

I don't think it's particularly unreasonable that someone might see "aggressive and pushy" and think scum though.

this isn't the reason i scum read black

Isn't your scumread based mainly on meta?

[Black]

It's based on you thinking I'm not trying to find scum. What are you basing that off of?

[Black]

How would you expect a townie to try to find scum less than 24 hours into a game?

[Black]

It's not scummy to want to seem townie

Your read sucks

[Black]

And I bring up the 24 hour thing because I think my posting was perfectly fine for the beginning stage of a game and I have no clue why you seem to have an issue with it

[Black]

what is your read on the worst?

Not too sure. Probably back to null. I've liked some of his posting since he left my wagon

[Black]

Klick I think your read is super nuanced and detailed and it feels a little unnatural

this right here is a very big reason why my standard approach is to be esoteric and obtuse with my actual thoughts

Are you switching your approach up to try and get townread?

[Black]

I guess I'm just curious why you aren't going with your standard approach

[Black]

Your conviction in the read is a little alarming but I also rarely have conviction in mine so I guess that could be part of it

I just don't think your case on ceejay is that strong and I'm surprised you're so confident about it

[Black]

How would you expect a townie to try to find scum less than 24 hours into a game?

Dann I want you to answer this when you get out of your meeting

[Black]

idk if im wrong and you are town arguing with me that my read sucks isn't really going to help, if you're town (and presumably you think im town) I think I will figure it out eventually

it's not like im about to eliminate you right now

I lean town on you but your read has been bugging me so I wanted you to go into detail about it

I still don't think it makes a lot of sense but I'm not going to be able to convince you I'm trying to sort people so we can just move on

[Black]

fine with the ceejay wagon too

Do you agree with Klick's read or do you have other reasons to scumread ceejay?

[Black]

what is your read on the worst?

Not too sure. Probably back to null. I've liked some of his posting since he left my wagon

I wrote this up last night then deleted it but ah well: do you have any (detailed) thoughts about this game which aren't retaliatory against how people have treated you

No not really. The only thing that comes to mind is my Klick read and I've already explained those thoughts. I don't really feel strongly about that read or any of my reads for that matter

[Black]

I tend to put more focus into how other players are manuvering around me or interacting with me early in the game. It helps me get my feet wet and the interactions can be useful

[Black]

Perhaps, but I've learned to check that bias. Charisma can only fool me for so long

[Black]

I'm back to my hyperposting ways

Who wants to live post with me I'm going for 12k

[Black]

Mafia addiction is real

[Black]

the worst warning about charisma is ironic

Is this because you think he's charismatic? Or because you think I'm charismatic and have voodoo'd him off of me?

[Black]

do you have a read on him

[Black]

I like that description and that's pretty much how I feel about you any time I townread you

[Black]

*hits blunt made out of the ashes of all the players I have murdered as scum*

Marco

[Black]

I might regret saying this but I feel better about Dann so far this game than I have in recent memory

[Black]

Part of that might be because I don't think he would push me in a very similar way he did last game when the result of said push last game was me thinking he's scum

Still I just generally like his posts and his thoughts seem to be coming naturally

[Black]

Got ninja'd there. Mind linking the game?

viewtopic.php?t=92457

You'll notice once I called him out for his bad read he just kinda gave up a little

I guess thinking about it, if he were scum this game and he tried to do the same thing except not give up and continue to engage with me about the read then that would be a pretty decent way to lure me into townreading him. That's a WIFOM argument that I'd rather re-evaluate later

Weirdly, I feel fairly certain he's scum and can't recall having this feeling. What do you think Dann is doing that is towny?

I like that he doesn't have many reads this game because I think Dann tends to kinda toss out reads early on as scum. I can see the progression in the little reads he does have and it makes sense to me

Something about the way he's interacting with me and the game just feels natural

[Black]

I feel sad
Not ideal mafia conditions but I'm here regardless

*hugs*

[Black]

klick/ceejay on this page is scum theatre

was this a real read

[Black]

Also, what kind of food do I want?

Chinese takeout

[Black]

More specifically... pepper beef with broccoli, steamed rice, and a side of dumplings (as long as the place you frequent has good dumpling sauce)

[Black]

What a fucking epic pagetop

I guess I'll order food now

[Black]

You've just reminded me that dumplings exist and now I'm craving chicken and dumplings

I hope you make it from scratch instead of the gross stuff that comes out of a can. Maybe it's better in the UK but I have a traumatic response to canned chicken and dumplings from having to eat it so much as a kid

[Black]

Also, what kind of food do I want?

Chinese takeout

I'm an hour outside of Chicago for the next two days on a work trip, so it'll be a crapshoot whether the place is good, but your suggestion is accepted.

Please don't hold it against me if it's bad

[Black]

UNVOTE: Klick

why did you unvote here?

[Black]

Spoiler: some quotes yo

i don't really vibe with the bingle wagon.

VOTE: Klick

VOTE: Klick

why

why

when Bingle posted again I remembered that wagoning Bingle for tenuous reasons early on day one is kind of like, a tepid approach to solving Bingle's alignment

I also didn't really like cjv joining that wagon w/o really engaging with anything else and honestly I could vote cjv but I don't think it's time yet.

which leads me to look for a better option and I haven't worked either you or Klick out yet so joining you seemed like a treat

wbu

I'm liking ceejay I think. I like 167 in particular because I also felt like Klick's read was a little forced so it's nice to see that ceejay is also finding an issue with it

Bingle's responses to me have been fine. Good enough to want to move on for now

VOTE: Klick

e-2 I believe

UNVOTE: Klick

I don't really like this sequence from implosion. Specifically I don't like how he asked the worst about his Klick vote but then didn't respond to him when he came back to the thread. He just unvotes and vanishes

[Black]

The menu is pretty extensive which is usually a good sign. We'll see.

[Black]

Klick do you have any thoughts about your short-lived wagon?

[Black]

Got ninja'd there. Mind linking the game?

I'm interested in hearing any thoughts you have regarding Dann following reading said game.

I second this btw

[Black]

Klick do you have any thoughts about your short-lived wagon?

Not particularly
Your vote is the interesting one

I think I buy your reasoning as something you would think as town
Although I'm quite confused by your conception of like, how I play? Do you think my reads don't normally have nuance?

I think it's the combination of nuance + conviction + page 3 that feels scummy to me. Tbh I'm not super familiar with your meta tells to know if this combination is normal for you

[Black]

do y’all think the spec thread is more active than the game

yes

[Black]

whew

[Black]

When I voted Klick it was basically a feeler. I didn't want a wagon on them, which is why I unvoted. I'm sort of anti-wagon because I just don't trust people to not E-1 people.

I think ceejay is somewhat scummy. I think Klick's reason for scumreading ceejay is alright. I think Klick is mildly townish but not a lock by any means yet. I see where Black is coming from with the overly-nuanced comment but I don't really know how to evaluate its merit in the absence of like, a deep knowledge of how Klick tends to play/approach things. I don't really see where Black is coming from with her points on ceejay being townish.

Can you elaborate on why you think Klick feels townie

[Black]

Like what posts in particular gave you town pings

[Black]

VOTE: implosion

[Black]

hi dann how is work today

[Black]

that's what the Bourgeoisie want you to think

[Black]

do we think a 32 hour work week will ever make it through congress

[Black]

[Black]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I'm a nm stan this vote breaks me heart

[Black]

play mafia of course

[Black]

I kinda think not mafia is just going to end up being eliminated unless something drastic changes but im not sure i feel like it’s time to end the day there

Why do you think we're just going to settle for NM? And why are you even considering the possibility that it might be time to end the day already?

[Black]

NM is such a lame fade unless he starts saying more stuff. It feels like a compromise we don't really need to make when we can just fade someone that's actually scummy

[Black]

I agree the gamestate is a drag rn but we have 7 days left. These people can't lurk forever

[Black]

welp
VOTE: implosion

maybe I do think cjv is a slightly better vote I just can't remember if that's e-1 and I'm trying to multitask

If you think CJV is a better vote then why not just wait until you have the time to check the vote counts? Why settle for someone you think has a lesser chance of being scum

[Black]

Like, given the day ending dayvig I probably shoot NM over you here because I think your flip does very little actually for progressing the game.

Wait what? You think a NM flip advances the game more than a Dann flip?

[Black]

I actually legitimately scumread NM atm

What do your readslist look like atm

[Black]

What do? WHERE DID THE 'ES' GO

*grumbles*

[Black]

let me edit typos

[Black]

Bingle/Dann is the scumteam I'm so sad

also did you not see 340 or what

[Black]

Sure. NM flipping here doesn't give us a ton of information outright, but it also makes who dies into a really spicy question. We go into D2 with a higher percentage of people actually playing, potential night action info, and the answer to the question "Who is scum most afraid of RIGHT NOW."

Also, I'm not unconvinced that NM isn't scum.

I can see the logic but it just feels like you are bending over backwards to reach this opinion

[Black]

I actually legitimately scumread NM atm

What do your readslist look like atm

the worst
???????
not mafia

idk my reads are changing like the wind this game and I feel kind of non-committal about most of them

I think there's at least one scum and probably two in [nm, implo, cjv] and maybe that's in reverse order? I'm also probably like, incorrect, because this game has a number of skilled scum players in it

wbu

What is your reasoning for voting implosion here instead of NM

[Black]

This is probably where I'm at atm. I'm non-committal on most of these as well

Black

Dannflor
ceejay
PC

NM
Bingle

the worst
Klick
implosion

Alianna

[Black]

are you still just finding Klick's reads too hard to align with & forced?

Ehh, skimming over his ISO real quick and I think I'd probably move him to null. I'm liking 272 and 290 on a second glance. Idk, Klick is kinda hard for me to read. I don't really know how to find him as town so I usually just end up scumreading him

[Black]

I refuse to consider the prospect of Alianna being scum in this game but like, I guess Klick/implosion is some kind of solve, failing that I'd mostly just consider how to get a more accurate read on your nulls I guess

I haven't really put much thought into teams yet tbh

[Black]

VOTE: the worst

[Black]

I think black is the only person I've seen who is like, outright hard townreading dann atm

It's not a hard townread

[Black]

I don't have enough confidence in my ceejay read to really defend him here but it seems like that's the direction we're headed

[Black]

wait nvm black tricked me i still think she's scummy

What prompted this thought?

[Black]

just scrolling back over your ISO in not real-time and not getting town vibes

i think partially there's also some paranoia in that you've never correctly town read me so confidently and so early before as town and i think it plays more along the lines of how you'd treat me as scum than as town

which i realize is unfair if you just actually have an accurate read on me this game

I think you think I'm more confident about your alignment than I actually am

[Black]

I'm in my apartment but not for longggggggg

TGIF baby

[Black]

ceejay what are your three most confident reads and why

[Black]

@ceejay
What are your two strongest reads, right this second?

PEdit: that's quite scary

yo wtf

[Black]

VOTE: black

I’m only half way through rereading but my hot take right now is that scum is exactly black/tw

bzzzzzt

help me fade tw

[Black]

How confident are you that I'm scum? And what's your plan to get me faded?

[Black]

I'll be around to post some after work

[Black]

ceejay you should probably claim

[Black]

NM broke the site with that one

[Black]

VOTE: ceejay

toodles!

[Black]

Just felt like hammering. I never get to and it's exhilarating

[Black]

I'm not here to play optimally anymore so you can scumread me for it if you want. I don't have a lot of time to play Mafia ever since I got my new job so welcome to the new Black

[Black]

but like

waiting for a claim?

Meh. We've been waiting for ceejay to post for like 2 days now. Kinda just got trigger happy

[Black]

idk who the other scum is, I don't think Black's hammer is clearing of her

I'm definitely not cleared. I would never hammer my scum buddy PR before they got the chance to claim but obviously you can't really be so sure if that

I'm just stoked I actually hammered scum

[Black]

VOTE: black this seems popular and I'd hate to rock the boat

This is kinda slimy imo. Feels like an easy wagon to start considering Dann was leading a charge against me yesterday

[Black]

I think it makes sense to trust tw's claim for now and let scum take care of him

I would be ok with a PC fade but I need to take a deeper look into things

[Black]

I didn't really like Dann's reaction to my hammer once I saw the flip. It felt like he was slightly annoyed even though he thought ceejay was going to flip scum. I thought about it some more and I don't understand why scum!Dann would show visible frustration over his partner being hammered. I think it's more likely he would have just not said anything. I can see that reaction coming from a townie that thinks he could be wrong after such an abrupt hammer

[Black]

If Dann were scum and trying to make me look bad after the hammer then I feel like he would have come into this Day pushing me

[Black]

VOTE: black this seems popular and I'd hate to rock the boat

This is kinda slimy imo. Feels like an easy wagon to start considering Dann was leading a charge against me yesterday

that's the joke

what are your reads rn who do you think scum are

I think I'm fine removing you and Dann from the PoE for now

Klick and PC are my immediate suspects

I still want to look over things again with ceejay's flip in mind. I always procrastinate doing that when I could have just done it overnight

[Black]

If tw is being truthful and I'm right about my Dann read then that means last scum is within {PC, Klick, implo}

This should be extremely winnable

[Black]

Been a rough day, tomorrow's going to be busier.

tl;dr regarding ceejay: I'm confused as to what he's accomplishing atm if he's scum
His last series of posts does him no favors in terms of survivability in the current gamestate
But I can also relate with the general vibe of 'there's a big blob of people in this game that I don't have a very good read on'
It feels similar to where my mind is at currently

I'm also quite concerned that the thread as a whole bar Black is basically fine with ceejay going over

I want to reevaluate under the assumption that ceejay is town and see what that implies about the attitudes towards his wagon
I've really not got the energy for it atm though

Feeling ill
Ceejay lim is fine

Intent to hammer, claim pls

These 3 posts in succession feel bad

[Black]

also fine w ceejay lim

i'll have some more to say soon most likely

This kinda feels bad considering implo doesn't talk about ceejay much at all. 561 is pretty hedgy

[Black]

implosion I don't really vibe with either. I feel like he's engaging for the sake of engaging and I thought sometimes he goes out a bit of his way to make his posts a bit more vague? Granted this could just also be how he posts but I've been feeling like parsing implosion's posts sort of feels a bit harder than parsing other players

is this scummy? am not sure but its what got my attention

I genuinely have no idea how you get "engaging for the sake of engaging" from my ISO. I spent the first day or two doing basically nothing because I wasn't really into the game yet and felt no need to engage. And then yesterday I basically posted a mad dash series of posts immediately before boarding a plane while i was able to. I've searched for specific things from specific people. How the heck are you getting "engaging for the sake of engaging" from my ISO?

If my posts are vague or hard to parse, it's either an issue of the way I write not coming through well to you or possibly just like, me being obtuse for a joke. I'm always happy to clarify or elaborate if there's anything specific.

Gut tells me the hedgy comment by ceejay here and the response by implo followed by the hedgy read from implo feels pretty partnered

[Black]

VOTE: Black

Why do you think I'm scum?

[Black]

Hmmm. Ok

[Black]

I still don't think it makes any sense for me to hammer ceejay before letting him claim or get replaced but I can understand the thought that I would do it for the wifom

[Black]

PC is literally the only player in the game who was not explicitly fine with ceejay dying i think

I don't like this post. I think implo including himself in the group that was "explicitly fine" with the ceejay fade (even though he barely talked about ceejay at all) and then casting shade on PC for being an outlier feels agenda driven

[Black]

VOTE: implo

Let's start here

I'll dive deeper later

[Black]

black taking the worst's claim at face value instead of the context of it being a hypo claim is weird, no?

I don't know what this means or why it's weird

[Black]

black how do you reconcile klick being possible scum with the way he treated ceejay early in D1? you think the case on him was theatre?

Honestly I haven't even looked over things since the flip. I plan on doing that at some point and I'll get back to you on this

[Black]

I don't understand why you're treating the worst as if he's town because of the hypoclaim

I mean I feel like we should just assume he's telling the truth for now and let scum NK him right? I don't know what a hypoclaim is

[Black]

I think I'm between implo and black right now

I think implo's interactions both ways make like, practical sense as a partner

but i think implo has been individually townier and black's posting today feels kind of desperate in a scumposting kind of way

Idk man. I'm just trying to solve in the same way I always do. Not sure why you're reading it as scummy or desperate

[Black]

689 feels kinda overly conciliatory, i think a townie hammering scum would feel more strongly about this point?

693 im not sure what the point of starting at the beginning of the thought process is, i feel like a townie would have led with the conclusion.

Feel more strongly about what? That I can't be scum? I don't think I'm cleared at all so I disagree

As far as the second post, I'm transparent about my entire thought process very often. This isn't any different

[Black]

The point is to show you my thought process so you might find me as town

[Black]

What do you find townie about implo?

[Black]

the worst isn't claiming a PR

he's saying "IF I'm a PR, this is my result"

implo explains this in 671

Ok I understand now

I still don't really think we should fade him yet. If he's telling the truth then scum have to hit him or risk letting him clear more people. If he's lying then we fade him in ELO, unless I'm missing something

[Black]

also I don't understand why you're saying we should believe the worst and leave it up to scum to resolve him

this is an open setup, if the worst was actually claiming a PR he is either absolutely town or the actual town PR should claim and we'd be in a 1v1 situation

what im saying is that the hypoclaim should have no impact on how you're readying the worst

Eh I guess. I'm not good with this stuff. I still think we should trust him for now. Maybe that's incorrect or whatever

[Black]

We either have a vanilla cop (i.e., a named townie) or a follower (i.e., a cop). Sort of silly how big the power difference is between those two in this exact situation. Obviously if there is a follower who saw someone make the kill, they should out it and we win. Otherwise, this seems like a situation where we ought to hypoclaim, i.e. everyone say "if i'm a follower, then i followed X and they didn't act".

that makes me sad but cjv's flip made me happy so nice trade-off

if i'm a power role i have an inno on not_mafia

Ok wait my brain finally pieced this together. I was posting in between work stuff and wasn't able to fully grasp it. Now that I'm on my lunch break I understand

Yeah this makes me feel different about tw. I didn't realize at first he was just going along with implo's suggestion. And to be completely honest I didn't even fully read implo's post until Dann just pointed it out

[Black]

[youtube][/youtube]

689 feels kinda overly conciliatory, i think a townie hammering scum would feel more strongly about this point?

693 im not sure what the point of starting at the beginning of the thought process is, i feel like a townie would have led with the conclusion.

Feel more strongly about what? That I can't be scum? I don't think I'm cleared at all so I disagree

As far as the second post, I'm transparent about my entire thought process very often. This isn't any different

I have trouble reconciling that you believe you’d never hammer a scum buddy in that position and yet you aren’t using it as a strong point in your favor

I've brought it up twice as a reason why I'm probably not scum but I can't prove it. What more could you possibly want from me?

[Black]

I feel like even if I was trying harder to clear myself off of that you would probably think that was scummy too so this lose/lose situation kinda sucks coming from you

[Black]

I guess I have this idea that as scum you’re a little more performative in admitting reasons why you could be scum and claiming that people shouldn’t lock town you

Whereas as town you believe in your towniness a bit more and get more upset when people aren’t correctly reading you

Do you disagree with that?

I think the bottom meta read is more accurate than the top one. Whether or not I get upset over being read incorrectly has a multitude of factors not related to my alignment

[Black]

I agree that I'm not cleared based off the hammer and I can't prove to anyone that I wouldn't do that as scum. So if this is my mindset then why would I be upset that someone isn't clearing me off the hammer?

[Black]

If someone tried to say "black is scum and the hammer is why" then there would be more pushback from my end

[Black]

also fine w ceejay lim

i'll have some more to say soon most likely

This kinda feels bad considering implo doesn't talk about ceejay much at all. 561 is pretty hedgy

Given the rest of implo's iso (and posts on this site) is this something that is indicative of him being aligned with ceejay, or something that looks bad?

It feels partnered with ceejay. I think scum do this often where they don't mention their buddy much but eventually expresses support for their fade

[Black]

I think you're trying to achieve scum things instead of town things

I think you're seeing the things I'm seeing again,,

I'm town

I do think this pile up on me is odd. I don't feel like I've been that scummy at all

[Black]

I think you're trying to achieve scum things instead of town things

I think you're seeing the things I'm seeing again,,

I'm town

I do think this pile up on me is odd. I don't feel like I've been that scummy at all

at least 2-3 townies are guaranteed to find you the best candidate to be scum here

I don't mean to be super harsh but atp I don't think it matters how towny or scummy you've been, we've gotta find a better candidate if we're wrong on u

I think scum is in that group as well

[Black]

I still don't think PC is scum at all really?

My best way of describing why is that it seems like PC has been sort of in their own little world, solving things that they think matters. I thought this was towny before a ceejay!scum flip, and I think it's particularly meaningful with ceejay being scum. I read PC's solving as detached from the gamestate, whereas if PC was scum with ceejay I feel like he would feel a need to influence things a fair bit more.

does a similar argument not go for black? it's not like black was particularly influential especially in the back half of the day

This is a good point

[Black]

In a world where Black is scum here I think she tried to do stuff and then ceejay made it impossible for her to do stuff and so she didn't do stuff and instead played self-pres

Why would his situation have made it impossible for me to do stuff?

[Black]

I was doing plenty of stuff until the weekend and then I was v/la as usual

[Black]

Why would I not let ceejay claim or be replaced before I hammered him? Do you think that was my best move? Because I don't think it's anywhere close

[Black]

I don't see the logic in me hammering ceejay when he was being prodded. I would have waited for him to either pop in and fake claim and then unvoted or I would have waited for a replacement to do the same. The hammer doesn't clear me so it's just such an awful move as scum and I typically don't make too many of those

[Black]

Not unvoted. I wasn't voting for him. But if I were scum I would have used the fake claim to as an excuse not to vote there

[Black]

Anyway wifom yadda yadda. I think me arguing this makes me look scummier so I didn't want to. But it's the truth

[Black]

Getting awful vibes from the worst here. Feels like he's trying to buddy up to Dann while simultaneously being very amicable with me. Part of me feels like he knows I'm town

[Black]

I disagree it makes you look scummier

It’s the most compelling point for you being town to me so far

Meh. I guess I'm thinking that if I were scum then my plan here would have had to of been a) bus ceejay and b) try to clear myself off that. I don't want to do what scum me would do because I'm town

[Black]

Meh. I guess I'm thinking that if I were scum then my plan here would have had to of been a) bus ceejay and b) try to clear myself off that. I don't want to do what scum me would do because I'm town

sometimes the correct play is the same for both alignments

I don't think the correct play is to try and clear myself off the hammer. I think I need to show everyone that I'm town a different way and that's what I was doing with my solving thoughts

[Black]

can I get a picture of where you're at with everyone?

Probably not in a way that will satisfy you

Things are pretty fuzzy and I don't have a lot of conviction in my reads

I think you're probably town. It really feels like you're trying to figure things out and your reads are fluid in a way I would expect from a townie trying to figure things out. If you're deepwolfing then congratulations I guess

I have no clue how to read NM

I think scum is probably within the rest of the players. This group is really hard for me to sort through atm which is why I want to take a deeper look with the ceejay flip in mind

I got the chance to look at some implo interactions earlier and I didn't like what I saw

tw feels really political or something. I feel like that's the best way to describe it. I remember not liking him earlier in the game too but I'm struggling with the possibility that I might just be scumreading his personality and style of posting

PC and Klick would probably be at the top of my scum pile if that area exists. PC's lack of engagement in the game is kinda worrying me a little. Him following me onto implosion is part of that. It kinda feels like he's on the outside looking in

Klick is just hard for me to read and I've been struggling with that one all game. I'm hoping my deep dive will help but I doubt it

[Black]

I'm not gonna be around too much this weekend as usual but I WILL deep dive at some point. Just give me time

[Black]

@ceejay
What are your two strongest reads, right this second?

PEdit: that's quite scary

I kinda wanna townread Klick for this. I didn't get the chance to properly digest it at the time but we mindmelded here. To me that indicates he was thinking from a townie perspective

[Black]

I think Klick is one of the slots I’m most confident on being town right now

I'm down to just outsource my read here tbh. Would save me some workload

[Black]

I looked through his ISO a little and I would say I feel better about him than everyone else in my PoE now

[Black]

Your seal of approval helps because you're either scum and correct or you're town and you're wrong. And if you're town then I trust your read on Klick waaaay more than I could ever trust my own

[Black]

That came out weird but I think you know what I mean

I'm stoned

[Black]

How do we handle NM slot? Wait until he gets to ELO and then evaluate then?

[Black]

I've only played with PC a few times but this is the least amount of analysis and engagement I've seen from him. I think there could be reasons for that outside of alignment but it is noteworthy to me still

As far as I'm concerned I think it should be between me klick and implosion. I don't think scum hammers their pr like that. I think black is clear. Dann being annoyed at the hammer I think that makes dann town.

This has the whole "scum including themselves in the PoE" vibe going and it also seems weird to me that he's so quick to clear me and Dann. Feels bad because he's right about me at least but it seems a little informed I guess. I could be confbiased here because I actively went into the ISO looking for reasons PC might be scum

Nm and worst can also be town.

PC either made the same mistake as me and didn't see implo's post or he just decided to copy my reads on Dann/NM/tw

[Black]

As far as I'm concerned I think it should be between me klick and implosion. I don't think scum hammers their pr like that. I think black is clear. Dann being annoyed at the hammer I think that makes dann town.

Why do you think you should be in the PoE?

[Black]

If PC is scum then he might think I'm a good choice for a pocket because I had a townlean on him D1

[Black]

implosion I don't really vibe with either. I feel like he's engaging for the sake of engaging and I thought sometimes he goes out a bit of his way to make his posts a bit more vague? Granted this could just also be how he posts but I've been feeling like parsing implosion's posts sort of feels a bit harder than parsing other players

is this scummy? am not sure but its what got my attention

I genuinely have no idea how you get "engaging for the sake of engaging" from my ISO. I spent the first day or two doing basically nothing because I wasn't really into the game yet and felt no need to engage. And then yesterday I basically posted a mad dash series of posts immediately before boarding a plane while i was able to. I've searched for specific things from specific people. How the heck are you getting "engaging for the sake of engaging" from my ISO?

If my posts are vague or hard to parse, it's either an issue of the way I write not coming through well to you or possibly just like, me being obtuse for a joke. I'm always happy to clarify or elaborate if there's anything specific.

Dann what do you make of this interaction? It feels so hedgy and the bottom paragraph of implo's post feels weirdly amicable in a way that I often see from scum

[Black]

That I often see from scum buddies*

[Black]

VOTE: PC

e-2

[Black]

Realistically I'm baffled as to what your alignment is I'm just fairly short on POE and needing to do more homework.

You made some posts D1 that indicated you thought I was town. What changed?

[Black]

Realistically I'm baffled as to what your alignment is I'm just fairly short on POE and needing to do more homework.

You made some posts D1 that indicated you thought I was town. What changed?

I've seen you around enough that it's starting to feel surreal that this is kind of our first interaction

I woke up like 4 hours ago and have hardly been thinking about this game, and my read on you has changed twice since I woke up I don't think I can linearly identify what caused my mood shift at a particular time unless you can point me to the spot, I do remember having a few "oh shit what if black is town" moments on d1 and I was solidly just focused on other things for a solid chunk of the day

I like this post

[Black]

VOTE: black

Can you explain the thought process behind this vote

[Black]

Also gonna UNVOTE:

Don't want this hammered yet

[Black]

Oh I missed that

I still would like you to explain your vote

[Black]

VOTE: PC

I'm just gonna sheep worsty

NM choosing not to hammer is ???

[Black]

Why is it not NM

[Black]

Why is it not NM

Better question is why isn't you. Towncase yourself.

Nah I'll pass

If you feel like cooperating eventually just lmk

[Black]

You're not doing what I want. You sidestepped both of my questions and then asked me to town case myself. Get real dude

[Black]

I'm still willing to give Dann a pass for now and also Klick by extension

So scum in {implo, NM, tw}

[Black]

I would like to deep dive before WrestleMania but I've got a lot of stuff to do

[Black]

Would it be crazy to fade NM today

[Black]

I like my vote.

Why me over implosion btw? Did I hurt your feelings by voting for you?

[Black]

Would it be crazy to fade NM today

why would it be

It feels like a 50/50 shot to me

[Black]

I'm in Texas y'all

I'm one state above you!

[Black]

If the worst is scum then there's this weird attempt to repeatedly pocket me with similar takes and get on my level. It would have to be very intentional. Whether the worst is vapable of this kind of play as scum or not should be the sort of thing I can find from looking through a few scum games.

I think he's been doing this to Dann as well I'm just not sure if it's alignment indicative

[Black]

Monday's are always so much worse after a fun weekend

[Black]

Hey I was gonna do that no fair

[Black]

If I go off of gut then it's just tw or NM. I feel like implo is trying to sort through things in a way that feels authentic and I'm not getting that same vibe from tw

[Black]

I'm town yo

[Black]

I think tw posturing to push me here now that Dann is back on me feels scummy af

[Black]

VOTE: the worst

[Black]

I could go NM but I think I'm going to be paranoid about scum!tw for the rest of the game so I'd rather go here first

[Black]

i don’t think the worst makes the case PC can still be scum after his claim if he is scum

that’s the type of brainfart conspiracy that comes from an outrageous townie

That's not a super compelling argument for me. It's not hard to act townie as scum

[Black]

I'm at an impasse because I don't want to be faded but I'm in my Lazy Era so I don't have energy or motivation to do much -_-

[Black]

I'm at an impasse because I don't want to be faded but I'm in my Lazy Era so I don't have energy or motivation to do much -_-

I think there's merit in this impasse being acknowledged. ur not really advancing the tangled corkboard of this solve, it still feels like you're on episode 2 of 8 or something a bit. maybe that's not alignment indicative.

Eh, idk about all this. More like I'm on episode 8 but episodes 1-7 are a little fuzzy and I don't have the time or energy to re-watch them. I think I'm doing ok. I could just be doing better

[Black]

hhhmmmmm

VOTE: Bingle

VOTE: Bingle I like this more right now

VOTE: Klick

VOTE: Klick

why

when Bingle posted again I remembered that wagoning Bingle for tenuous reasons early on day one is kind of like, a tepid approach to solving Bingle's alignment

I also didn't really like cjv joining that wagon w/o really engaging with anything else and honestly I could vote cjv but I don't think it's time yet.

which leads me to look for a better option and I haven't worked either you or Klick out yet so joining you seemed like a treat

wbu

152 feels like a scum post

It's a bit of an over-explanation to jumping off of Bingle as soon as ceejay put the wagon at 3 votes. I also hate the middle line where tw flirts with voting for ceejay but doesn't because it wasn't time apparently?

I think this and the whole interaction with ceejay around this feels unnatural

[Black]

I think you missed the point of me assessing your alignment here. Idk if it's deliberate or not.

I think you were saying my solving was NAI but I was a little confused by that. I found it more interesting that you seemed to be somewhat dismissive of my impact on the game

[Black]

I am reading your worst analysis with interest Black but am not in a place to evaluate it in a satisfying way
Keep doing what you're doing and I'll engage later

Unfortunately I only have a small window after work to get on my PC and analyze things. That's my life these days. I've been struggling to take advantage of this window lately, so I resort to live posting on mobile and try to have an impact that way

The rest of the analysis will have to wait

[Black]

suppose if ceejay's partner didn't do anything absurd then I have to deal with the idea that someone I townread is scum despite not really looking aligned with ceejay and I don't think it's natural to get there rn

Are you townreading Dann and implo?

[Black]

That's twice now NM has decided to vote before the hammer and I don't know what that means

[Black]

Feels like self-preservation a little but I'm also trying to decide if scum!NM would make that so obvious

[Black]

I feel like we get so much more information out of a tw flip

[Black]

On the flip side I think town!tw is more useful than town!NM even despite tw being wrong about me

[Black]

sure
VOTE: NM

Why would you rather fade NM over me?

[Black]

why though

[Black]

are you mocking me?