[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[farside22]

Just adding a note that till BA's game fills up I'm just ignoring this thread.

[farside22]

Just going to add these two the mix as both caught my attention from the last thread.

Written by Adel, with the help of shaft and Mr. Flay

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes (joint RB)
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

..or 2 Watchers and 3 Mafiosos.


Written by Adel

Mr. and Ms. Smith
Mr. Smith (SK) (nk-immune)
Mrs. Smith (SK) (nk-immune)
1 Watcher
x townies

Daystart

x = number of townies necessary to balance setup. x = 6?

Mr. and Mrs. Smith are SKs, with the win condition "you win if you are the last player alive". If one ever targets the other, they get a qt thread to use for the rest of the period of night, and each following period of night, and their win conditions are changed to read "you win if either you or your spouse outlives the entire town"


I would say 7 or 8 townies would work for Mr. Mrs smith game.

[farside22]

Wheels on the C9+2

2 Mafia (50% chance of 1 being Bus Driver)
0 or 1 Cop (50% chance of occurrence)
0 or 1 Bus Driver (50% Chance of occurrence)
5 to 7 town

What happens when both bus drivers target one another?

[farside22]

So far I haven't seen anything really jump up here that looks right.

[farside22]

I'm thinking for the next round of games to sign up for to do

Carbon 14

again. I found the game well balance and many enjoyed playing (well except those killed early.)
Discussion on the game is welcomed.

[farside22]

I'm thinking for the next round of games to sign up for to do

Carbon 14

again. I found the game well balance and many enjoyed playing (well except those killed early.)
Discussion on the game is welcomed.

Also saw this game getting 2 or three noms:

Two of Four b9

So again thoughts on both games. Yes or no. Problems or disagreement?

[farside22]

I'm thinking for the next round of games to sign up for to do

Carbon 14

again. I found the game well balance and many enjoyed playing (well except those killed early.)
Discussion on the game is welcomed.

Also saw this game getting 2 or three noms:

Two of Four b9

So again thoughts on both games. Yes or no. Problems or disagreement?

Carbon-14: Seems that massclaim is the best thing to do after nolynch day one. That should keep the town in confirmed players for the rest of the game. It is important that there is no discussion day one, though.

This depends on many factors.
Who did the mafia kill that night 1? Counter claiming is the bomb thing to do as scum or claiming said role first.

[farside22]

I'm taking the comment for Carbon and nixing that idea now. Looks like carbon will be out. Next I saw this with 2 nom's.

2:10 Bugs Bunny

("What's up, doc?")
2 mafia
1 doctor
9 townies

Also fonz's game got a couple of nods and I think looked good:

JK9

Jailkeeper
Tracker
Five townies
Two scum

Any objections?

[farside22]

I'm proposing a modified version of Dethy:

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Paranoid Cop

The original Dethy formulation has a goon, but favors town. I'm hoping that the role-blocker will tip the scales a little towards the mafia side.

farside22 promised to let me mod it if it gets approved

Can I assume the cops have no clue if what their sanity is? Also I think 2 vanilla's would be good and 1 more scum but that's me.

[farside22]

Cops don't know their sanity. The game starts with Night 0, where the cops are given one set of investigation results and the mafia may choose to block somebody.

mafia gets to block and kill? night 0?

[farside22]

How about this?
2 Mafia Goons
1 Even Night Cop
1 Odd Night Doctor
5 Vanilla Townies
Day Start

This setup needs a name.

Also, is it balanced?

Alternating C9

AC9/DC9.

This game was done I believe with 2 less vanilla and called even/odd C9. I will get the link.

edit:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9918

[farside22]

mith: Since some games are being discussed that have been played before and I find a game that looks balanced may I give the game to a mod that has experience.
I'm looking at the one Caboose nom'ed and got nom'ed 3 times:

Jungle Republic[/b]

1 Seer
3 Mafia (no NK)
2 Werewolves (has an NK)
6 Townies

[farside22]

Bird 7p?

Second

Winner!

[farside22]

I'm going to start really looking these idea over when I get back from my vacation. Anything I feel looks good I will take over to the certify people and start lighting a fire to get more game choice to play for Open.

[farside22]

Secret Word:
A word is chosen by the mod. If any players say it any time during the game, they will be modkilled at the end of the day, to ensure the word isn't given away.
-Only way to kill mafia is by lynches.
-Mafia know word, the rest of town do not. They are still modkilled if they say it.
Large set-up, lots of players. No nights?

OH FFFFF YES

NOMINATED

OR WHATEVER WE DO TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN

Is it normal? If it is:

Second

This is not normal
Off to theme for you!

[farside22]

I am going to start looking more here for idea's on open set ups.
There will be lots of talks about an idea that gets 2 or more votes to be run before I put it in the queue to be run.
Any questions let me know.

farside

[farside22]

I need some game ideas people. Hit this page today with what you want to see. Carbon 14 is a possiblilty

[farside22]

I need some game ideas people. Hit this page today with what you want to see. Carbon 14 is a possiblilty

Please give Delayed Reaction a go. People will love it due to its unconventional setup. I also see a mafia or town win as equally likely. I will mod if necessary (I'm aware that's not really a possibility). Most of the issues I've seen with it were extremely nitpicky (and I'd suggest the proposed improvements were inferior to the original) and frankly all setups on this site are balanced towards one side or another. I think this is at least as good as most other open setups.

The game seems more theme then open

[farside22]

first no to the zombie game. That is not a normal set up and sounds more like a theme game.
Second this game.

Anyways, I was wondering why watchers & trackers were relatively rare, and that may be because they're a bit overpowered in non open set-ups, so I thought of the following:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Watcher
1 Tracker
3 Townies

I feel this set up is more ballance in favor of town the scum. A track and a watch while the mafia have 2 players. I just see this as a clear town win all the way thru.

[farside22]

I know I have played Friends and Enemies. Day 1 mason claim is bad.
I have never seen 3 mason's live to day 3. Even if they claim there is still townies there too.
To have scum and mason's that good to never be lynched or killed during the first 2 days has yet to happen.
I will put Friends and Enemies up for the next round.

[farside22]

Isn't daytalk mean that mafia can talk all during the day in private?

[farside22]

The original (totally unbalanced) 3:9 game with universal daytalk was just called Daytalk 12.

I don't think there's a different term for universal daytalk (except, well, universal daytalk). Outside communication, I guess.

I would think the mod should be invovled in those discussions. Something about it I could see going hinky otherwise.

[farside22]

I guess replacements would probably need the transcripts, yeah.

It could be more work but you could set a quick topic for each person indiviually to chat with ever they want and they will be responsible to send their chat link to him they wish to talk to more privately.

[farside22]

Well, a QuickTopic for each individual to paste all of the transcripts it was involved in for replacements and nonplayers to read would work. Sending it to other players would defeat the purpose. (And be quoting private conversations, which would presumably still be against the rules.)

For actual communication, you'd really need to use AIM, PMs, unofficial QuickTopics, et cetera. Unless you decided to make 64 separate official QuickTopics (all of the two-person pairings, minus the scum ones, plus a three-person scum topic), which is just crazy.

Yuck. It's really a big mess for the mod

[farside22]

I just noticed the Rebels in the Palace game. Isn't that basically 4:8 Nightless, a game town already has an advantage in, with weakened scum?

Also:

Fixed

(12 players)
3 mafia (2 goons, 1 tailor)
7 vanilla townies
2 cops
Day Start

The tailor's target has its alignment flipped for investigative purposes for the night.

SCIENCE

(7 players)
2 mafia (1 goon, 1 encryptor)
3 vanilla townies
2 daymasons
Day Start

Encryptor's survival permits mafia daytalking. (Of course, it doesn't matter which of them has that role.)

Not sure I get the tailor idea but 2 cops seem a bit strong to me.

I like the second idea here. Question on this can the masons talk during the day too or just the mafia?

[farside22]

Daymasons means daytalk, yeah.

If a tailor and a cop target the same player, then the cop gets a false result. I think PF and I agreed later that all dead mafia are revealed simply as

mafia

, so the town doesn't know when the tailor dies and there's always room for argument on the cop results. (In this version, I think the tailor can also target itself.) It's also been renamed Bad Tweed.

Still 2 cops seem a bit one sided to me. Idk it's just seems more leveled to the town because and yes this is a long shot if both cops live after N1 lets say they can say I checked player X and he checked player Y
if they both get innocent it's something where one could be wrong. If they get guilty on both then it's for sure 1 scum gone.

[farside22]

I don't think that's that bad. (It helps that, when a cop claims, it's dead.)

Personally I would want it tested out. I just see it has more town favorable.

[farside22]

I guess you could add a second tailor. Eh. I still don't think it's unbalanced at all.

I guess keep it as is but I would like to hear a few thoughts from others on this. I think you said PF and you talked about it.

[farside22]

what if the game started in night instead of a day start ether?

[farside22]

We talked about that, too.

I don't think it's a great idea.

Would you play it if I had sign ups for it?

[farside22]

I altered this a bit:

Bad Tweed

3 mafia goons (group ability: kill, group ability:tailor)
6 vanilla townies
2 unconfirmed & sane cops
1 insane cop
Day Start

The target of the tailor ability has his alignment flipped for investigative purposes for the night.
Mafia can target a member of the mafia with the tailor ability.
If the insane cop investigates a town player who was also targeted by the tailor ability his investigation result will be "innocent"; if the insane cop investigates a mafia player who was also targeted by the tailor ability his investigation result will be "guilty" -- otherwise the insane cop will receive an investigation result that is the opposite of his target's actual alignment.

This makes my head hurt

[farside22]

I looked at this set up one more time and I think it needs to have another VT added to it

SCIENCE (7 players)
2 mafia (1 goon, 1 encryptor)
3 vanilla townies
2 daymasons
Day Start

If the mason's live to day 2 and claim the mafia is pretty much done even with 1 VT in the game alive

[farside22]

Even if a mafioso is lynched they can kill a mason so that the game goes to pretty much the same situation (lylo with a single Townie in the middle).

Tit for Tat Mafia

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Daystart. All roles where sanity is a question are confirmed-sane. If the Mafia Nurse becomes a Doctor they can self-protect.

Not sure what to think. I don't like doctors that can self protect.

[farside22]

Even if a mafioso is lynched they can kill a mason so that the game goes to pretty much the same situation (lylo with a single Townie in the middle).

Tit for Tat Mafia

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Daystart. All roles where sanity is a question are confirmed-sane. If the Mafia Nurse becomes a Doctor they can self-protect.

Not sure what to think. I don't like doctors that can self protect.

Doctors that self-protect aren't an issue unless the doctor is pro-town.

There is a vig for the town
A role blocker for the mafia. Having 2 possible roles to stop a vig. ......

[farside22]

@Farside:

If the Vig shoots the mafia Nurse, who protacted him/herself, vig claims, and lynches a mafia.

Only if the Roleblocker is dead.

^ this and it's the mafia nurse that needs to be a doctor first.
idk I feel this is a bit swingy but I would love someone to crunch the numbers on this game.

[farside22]

Think it would be better without the self protect.

Also Roleblocker and Role Cop on the mafia side seems overpowered. Why is the Roleblocker there, and why isn't there a back-up roleblocker?

I agree with this.

I think having a vigilante and a roleblocker distracts from the tit for tat thing going on. Give the town some back up roles or leave them out.

You need the Vigilante to make the Mafia Nurse relevant. And with a Vigilante, I think the Mafia could use a Roleblocker.

I understood this but I think the self protect is too much for the scum.
With a RB at their hands in the beginning they have to worry only about a doctor and vig.
With a role cop as scum I assume they will get the info of the role it's self?

[farside22]

actually I thinking sticking with this:

Tit for Tat Mafia
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Without the self protect is fine. I think adding the the rest of the backups are not neccessary and no I don't like the idea of giving the mafia an extra kill.

[farside22]

actually I thinking sticking with this:

Tit for Tat Mafia
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Without the self protect is fine. I think adding the the rest of the backups are not neccessary and no I don't like the idea of giving the mafia an extra kill.

I still think Role Cop and Roleblocker on Mafia side are unbalanced.

What about:

1 Mafia Backup Roleblocker
1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Rolecop

1 Town Vig
1 Town Nurse
1 Town Deputy
1 Town Roleblocker
5 Vanilla Townies

Now each side has a killing power (vig vs. mafia kill). And Town starts with 2 power roles and 2 backups, while mafia has 2 power roles and a backup. Problem here I guess is a mafia version of "follow the cop."

Is the vig a conpulsive vig?

[farside22]

Reading the game comments for paris it seems people thought adding 2 VT's would be more helpful. What does 1 VT added to the set up change? Why add only 1 instead of 2 VT's?

[farside22]

Tit for Tat Mafia v2
1 Mafia Doctor
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Mafia Roleblocker Backup
1 Vigilante
1 Nurse
1 Deputy
1 Roleblocker
5 Townies

I sudder at the thought of the mafia killing the RB night 1.

[farside22]

If I want some help with an open setup that is a slight bit non-traditional, but I don't really care about submitting it for play on mafia scum, what thread do I do that in? This one? Some other one? Do I make a new thread?

Non traditional how? If it's not a game normal I would post it just as an idea for a game in your own topic.

[farside22]

Reading the game comments for paris it seems people thought adding 2 VT's would be more helpful. What does 1 VT added to the set up change? Why add only 1 instead of 2 VT's?

2 mafia goons vs. watcher + vig + 7 townies seems like a lot..

possible rule changes:
1. "no lynch" is not allowed while both mimes are alive.
2. if one mime is killed at night the other becomes a neutral survivor OR if one mime is killed at night, both die and lose.

I agree with 1 and as for 2 I think the later part is better.

[farside22]

ABR you don't think your game is a bit one sided with the mafia having no power roles to speak of?

[farside22]

ABR you don't think your game is a bit one sided with the mafia having no power roles to speak of?

Both sides have a more than reasonable chance of winning, although town is slightly favored as I said.

Considering that the town mislynches, the vig misses, the mafia kills and the hider dies, the town is at LYLO day 2.

I think the mafia should get a RB for this game.

[farside22]

It doesn't make the game more fun to play. In fact, it makes the game much less fun to play. The PRs who get blocked are unhappy, the mafia doesn't know that they successfully RB'd half the time. No RB forces the mafia to make good decisions, not NK one claimed PR and block the other.

I know that games without mafia RBs are more fun.

I still feel the mafia is up shit creak without something to counter the town's PR.

[farside22]

Reading the game comments for paris it seems people thought adding 2 VT's would be more helpful. What does 1 VT added to the set up change? Why add only 1 instead of 2 VT's?

2 mafia goons vs. watcher + vig + 7 townies seems like a lot..

possible rule changes:
1. "no lynch" is not allowed while both mimes are alive.
2. if one mime is killed at night the other becomes a neutral survivor OR if one mime is killed at night, both die and lose.

I definately think the no lych while both alive should be in here what about no lynch not in the game at all.

[farside22]

An Idea I came up with last night that doesn't have much refining but I like the idea:

Noah's Ark

2 Mafia A
2 Mafia B
2 Cops
2 Doctors
2 Townies

Tweak it however you wish, but remember that the central idea is that there is two of each role.

2 millers

idk a part of me wants to see something that mess's with the cops a bit and the millers get a VT PM so they don't know they are millers (sorry it's the I want things to be a not follow the cop ideal)

[farside22]

So I'm going to propose an idea with a set up change.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6963

The orignal concept had
2 mafia
2 wolf
2 monks
2 mason
4 townies

I played not in this game (maybe I did) but for the mafia and monks it was always on the look out for mason and monks.
Unintencially the mod did the set up this way with this game.

The Setup

1-2 Mafia Goons
1-2 Werewolves
1-2 Masons (not Mafia)
1-2 Monks (not Werewolves)
4-8 Vanilla Townies

This left the game with a more WIFOM approach also using the idea that a mafia could be a monk and a mason could be a wolf.

Although this was not meant to happen the idea on this really leads to a lot of uncertainity for town on clearing really anyone in the game.

Thoughts?

[farside22]

blowing my own trumpet here, but imo True Love should get run again

exactly 50-50 odds of town/mafia winning, sounds like a winner setup to me!

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1532265

you don't need to tell people who is lovers with whom at the start, as per how the game was run the first time round: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11349

I could go for another round in the game.
Out of curiousity (because I'm a bit tired) was scum allowed to day talk to each other as well in the game?

[farside22]

Traitors in Our Midst

, Version 2

4 Mason Team 1
4 Mason Team 2
4 Mason Team 3
3 Mason Traitors (Mafia, selected at random from the total pool of players)
12 players total

All groups can nighttalk within each other. Mod decision in whether the groups can daytalk or not.

Mason Traitors win when their numbers equal or exceed that of the Town Masons.
Town Masons win when all Mason Traitors are eliminated.

I don't think there should be day talk in this game. I really like the idea otherwise.

[farside22]

I CAN'T THINK OF A GOOD NAME FOR THIS SETUP

2 Mafia A
2 Mafia B
1 anti-Mafia A cop
1 anti-Mafia B doctor
6 vanilla townies

It should be obvious that the anti-Mafia A cop gets guilties only on Mafia A and the anti-Mafia B doctor protects only against Mafia B.

Alternatively, this can be a semi-open with a 50% chance of an anti-Mafia B cop and an anti-Mafia A doctor instead of the other way around.

How does the town have a chance to win? Cross kills and some serious scum hunting luck.

[farside22]

Working on a concept - how is this for balance?

Gunfighters Mafia: 12 players

2 Vig/Lover pairs
5 VT
1 Mafia Doctor
2 Mafia Goons

Both vigilantes are lovers with a townie; the pairs win with town only if the other vigilante pair dies before them.

no
3 kills in one night.
vigs both kill at VT
mafia kills vig lover
it's lylo day 2.

[farside22]

Working on a concept - how is this for balance?

Gunfighters Mafia: 12 players

2 Vig/Lover pairs
5 VT
1 Mafia Doctor
2 Mafia Goons

Both vigilantes are lovers with a townie; the pairs win with town only if the other vigilante pair dies before them.

no
3 kills in one night.
vigs both kill at VT
mafia kills vig lover
it's lylo day 2.

D1: VT lynch
N1: someone kills a lover from group 1, someone else kills a lover from group 2, and someone kills a VT. 3 scum, 3 VT's are alive and the game is over.

Sorry I miscounted but there is the basic's.

[farside22]

Traitors in Our Midst

, Version 3

4 Mason Team 1
4 Mason Team 2
4 Mason Team 3
3 Mason Traitors (Mafia, selected at random from the total pool of players)
12 players total

All groups can nighttalk within each other. Groups cannot daytalk within each other.

Mason Traitors win when their numbers equal or exceed that of the Town Masons.
Town Masons win when all Mason Traitors are eliminated.

I like the idea myself but so far no one really seems to have said much on it.

[farside22]

Need some idea's people!
go, go., go

[farside22]

Seeing lots of ideas but no nom's so far. I liked the one that VP talked about last page but I can see a new mod looking at me like what was I smoking when I tell them to mod that game.

[farside22]

I think the flaw with "first to send in the action after nightfall" is that if nightfall begins when someone is at work, and wouldn't be able to post until they get home, then that person is at a disadvantage unfairly, purely for having a job at those hours (as opposed to someone in a different timezone, or someone unemployed). Hence why random would be fairer.

I agree with this and think random is better idea.

[farside22]

I really don't like a single random diceroll deciding Win/Lose, and having to both hold your shot and lose the scum you correctly identified seems overly harsh. Is there a reason they can't both win on the same Scum, and both exit?

That was how I was seeing it, originally. The mod randomly choosing bit is optional. Part of the idea was to keep the town on odd numbers at the end of each night, but there are already other ways that could be interrupted.

I really like this idea lets work out what is best and I will have it up next time I do sign ups for the open games.

[farside22]

I like the "No I in Team" Hunter game, personally.

I do too. I think 7 townies with 2 mafia and 2 hunters are best in this game but that's just my view.
It looks to be a 11 player game I believe looking at the orginal idea with 2-3 mafia, 2-3 hunters and 5 -7 townies. I think 6 or 7 townies would be best in this game but the idea of 3 hunters makes me shudder for the scum.

[farside22]

5W:

• Mafia Roleblocker
  
• Mafia Goon
  
• Tracker
  
• Doctor
  
• 5(?) Townies

Day start.

I want to see this in operation once or twice before suggesting it to VRK as a replacement for F11. I don't think it is susceptible to the old "Investigative Role claims, Doctor protects while Investigator hunts" problem, because the RB can just stop an outed

Cop

Tracker while the Goon hunts the Doc.

Question. Is the doctor and the tracker in the game or is a possiblity of being in the game like F11?
9 player game 1 mafa RB, 1 goon. I think I would miss the possible fake claims that mafia can pull in the game.

[farside22]

Won't the Tracker auto-nail the Mafia doing the killing, since the Tracker would be told that "Player X went to Player Y's house last night". The next day Player Y turns up dead. Player X is scum.

Am I missing something about the Tracker role? It seems with only 1 killing group in an F11 setup you're giving the tracker too much power, because he automatically knows that the person doing the killing must be scum, and not necessarily a pro-Town killing role like a Vig or similar.

So no investigation role would be good? I mean Vel is right this is almost like follow the cop that is already going on except follow the tracker.
Of course the tracker has a 1 out of 8 chance of being correct on who to follow. If he follows the doc and nothing happens to the player that the doc targeted he will realize player not dead and another player dead there is the doc right there.
(shrug)

[farside22]

wait is it just a one shot cop investigation and since I'm not the familiar with a princess is it an extra kill for the mafia if she is lynched?

[farside22]

I can't find a link to it, so I'll ask here. Is there a list of all approved Open Setup games?

I think I've asked that before and got the answer "no". I could be wrong but I think farside basically determines what setups get run, apart from when a setup is nominated for the first time.

There was at one time. But for now I look at what is here, get some discussion going on the pro's and con's before running the set up.
Most of the games I take are ones that have already been run and approved (when we had a commitee on this).

[farside22]

It shouldn't be harder than compiling what's there into a single, friendly page.

Now that you link it, I remember the category. My original thought was "Is that all of them, or only the ones on the wiki?"

If farside has a list, which I presume she does, and it's available, I would love to get a copy. I'll work on getting them all into the wiki. It won't be a "single, friendly page," but it will have better navigation than simply looking at the category.

I have a mental list. But basically the one that Vi linked to is where I get most of the games I use for Open Games. I like to see some variety and before I post it on the wiki I like to see it run.

[farside22]

By the way as for follow the cop I have to wonder if the BP is considered normal?
Mith or Mr.Flay your thoughts on it.

[farside22]

If anyone cares, every Open Setup ever played is on the wiki. Each role in each setup has a link to a Category that will show you other setups that used the role.

The next step is to make wiki pages for each Open game played.

farside:

I mentioned it before. If you have a list of approved setups, I'll go through each wiki page for those setups and flag them with a [[Category:Approved Open Setups]]. As the list changes (adds or drops), I can update the category.

Adding that category would be awesome.

I know there is a list of approved sets up. I will send that link to yawetag.

[farside22]

waaaaa follow the cop never got run

I forgot about it and I'm still thinking about the princess.

@ Max I like your idea there. How is there 0-8 VT's though?

[farside22]

originally put this in wrong place

Game I plan to run some day

2 goons
8 townies
1 town doctor
1 mafia traitor - doesn't know scum and scum don't know him but he wins with scum

after players are randomly given these roles i will randomly give out neighbor assignments

Roll dice among all players. first person rolled is in neighbor group 1 along with his other role. Second person rolled is also in neighbor group 1 along with whatever role they already are. Do this 3 times for a total of 3 neighbor groups. Don't think I'll allow a player to be in multiple neighbor groups. I think the mentioned power roles combined with random neighboring should be fairly balanced and interesting in terms of strategies you could organize. Only way traitor gets to talk to and find out who is scum is by luck and doctor could find a good team mate could find out alot about a buddy or a teamate. Just got to figure out if i should allow mafia to be randomly neighbors with mafia. I think they should be allowed should luck make it happen. Afterall is they are together other pairs would likly go to town and that may keep things interesting.

I need any criticism and or snappy titles you can think of

Not sure how this belongs here. Seeing the Mr. Rogers name and idea I feel like calling the game:
Won't you be my neighbor?


@FC Groningen: That game is not normal. It belongs under theme games

[farside22]

Max, I like the basic idea, though not the implementation... for one thing, if 2:2:9 is considered "fair" (I still need to run numbers on that, huh), adding the potential for several power roles while only dropping the number of pro-town players by one may nudge things too far in the town's favor (maybe not, though; perhaps all it does it make it more likely one group will get wiped out quickly, allowing the other side to win more often... in which case it's more a swinginess problem than one of balance).

Perhaps something to differentiate the scumgroups would be appropriate - if you have the potentail for the anti-Mafia town powers to be stronger than the anti-Werewolf powers (or vice versa), perhaps also include the possibility of Mafia powers (or Werewolf powers). Or, you could take it a step further and have a different set of possible town powers assigned to each scumgroup... make the Tracker a Werewolf-only possibility, for example.

So make a tracker role that could be for either faction or both factions?
Maybe one tracker (wolf) one RB (mafia) Or is that too over powered for the scum then?

[farside22]

Let's do follow the cop now!

I just keep looking at this game and it just doesn't seem balanced. a 1 shot cop. 2 princess that are millers. Once a princess is lynched the town losses. I just feel this is too strongly in favor of the scum team.

[farside22]

Agreed.

Hey Farside, for the next game could you put a blatantly unbalanced, small size game? I've always wanted to play one of those.

That happened once already but thanks for the laugh.

[farside22]

@SC: I'm a bit confused here. Is there two separate games going on with that set up and then combine at a certain point?

[farside22]

DOUBLE F11... WELL, KIND OF

Split the 18-player game in two and independently generate each half. Half 1 is the standard F11; half 2 replaces the cop, doc, and roleblocker with a tracker, watcher, and ninja respectively. Then combine them back together.

For players who like lists:

1. One of these with equal likelihood:
   • 1 Mafia goon, 1 Mafia roleblocker, 1 cop, 1 doctor, 5 vanilla townies
     
   • 2 Mafia goons, 1 cop, 6 vanilla townies
     
   • 2 Mafia goons, 1 doctor, 6 vanilla townies
     
   • 1 Mafia goon, 1 Mafia roleblocker, 7 vanilla townies
2. One of these with equal likelihood:
   • 1 Mafia goon, 1 Mafia ninja, 1 tracker, 1 watcher, 5 vanilla townies
     
   • 2 Mafia goons, 1 tracker, 6 vanilla townies
     
   • 2 Mafia goons, 1 watcher, 6 vanilla townies
     
   • 1 Mafia goon, 1 Mafia ninja, 7 vanilla townies

What do you guys think?

There could also be a game with just the second half, a good name being

NINJA MAFIA

.

SC does that mean this game is 18 players?
I'm planning on putting it up for the next open game phase and I want to make sure I understand it completely first.

[farside22]

Fruit vendor I agree is meh and the role of fruit vendor isn't something I would have in a normal game.
As for the Rival Vig Mafia. I'm concerned about the chances for mafia in the game. I don't feel it's well balanced.
I really like Max's second idea

2 Mafia A
2 Mafia B
1 Cop A
1 Cop B
1 Doc
5 Town

It's simple but still fun in my view

[farside22]

Nominate -> It becomes an Official Open Setup for anyone to use for their Open Games.

Nominate + Support + I think farside's stamp of approval, actually.

This plus discussion. Some people are nominating games that are not balanced. I like to see a discussion of those people that are not only coming up with the game but those who look at the balance and can see the flaws.
I'm talking to mith about having someone become a person to look at these and determine if it's balanced, based on the nom's from others.

[farside22]

Scales of Justice:

5x vanilla townies
2x (33% chance of mafia roleblocker, mafia godfather [receives a goon role PM], mafia goon [no duplicates])

-- if mafia roleblocker + mafia goon --
1x doctor
1x (50% chance of cop or watcher)

-- if mafia godfather + mafia roleblocker --
1x watcher
1x (50% chance of doc or cop)

-- if mafia godfather + mafia goon --
1x cop
1x (50% chance of doc or watcher)

I generated a few games with this setup with the results in spoilers.

Thoughts and nominations kthx

I like the WIFOM of this design.
This is a 9 player game? I saw your spoiler and it looked like it was 12. Can I confirm the number of players in the game.

[farside22]

Nominate -> It becomes an Official Open Setup for anyone to use for their Open Games.

Nominate + Support + I think farside's stamp of approval, actually.

Yeah, I was planning to get a game that wasn't truly nominated by more than 2 people, to get Farside's awesome stamp of Approval.
I already planned pre-ins..

Pending for Approval.

My biggest issue is trying to fill this game up. Any game that has more the 12 players gets difficult to fill. I would want to see big support for a game like this and more discussion.

[farside22]

Doc who's protection works over two nights instead of just one.

Does the mage protect each night?
If so bad

[farside22]

Scales of Justice:

5x vanilla townies
2x (33% chance of mafia roleblocker, mafia godfather [receives a goon role PM], mafia goon [no duplicates])

-- if mafia roleblocker + mafia goon --
1x doctor
1x (50% chance of cop or watcher)

-- if mafia godfather + mafia roleblocker --
1x watcher
1x (50% chance of doc or cop)

-- if mafia godfather + mafia goon --
1x cop
1x (50% chance of doc or watcher)

I generated a few games with this setup with the results in spoilers.

Thoughts and nominations kthx

I like the WIFOM of this design.
This is a 9 player game? I saw your spoiler and it looked like it was 12. Can I confirm the number of players in the game.

9 players indeed.

<3 chkflp

Sounds good then. I would approve of giving this game a run through.

[farside22]

Consp: The only situation that hurts the scum team if a cop claims if they have no RB. The only situation that occurs is the 3rd option happens. If a cop claims, the RB in the game just Rb's him.
The only concern at that point is if the scum team has no RB, but then they have a GF on their side, so the cop's chances of finding the only guilty verdict is 1 out of 8 players (take away the lynchee) 1 out of 7.

You know for the 3rd option giving the scum team a possible framer might not be a bad idea actually.

[farside22]

Empking's game = bad

I agree with the macho cop in the set up.

I really hate jesters. Not sure how balance that game is Tradegy.

[farside22]

Note: Quil's game looks to be something I would like to see run. With Macho Cop as discussed if a cop is in the game.

Scales of Justice
5 Vanilla Townies
2 out of (Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Mafia Godfather [receives a Goon role PM]) with equal chance and no duplicates.

-- if Mafia Roleblocker + Mafia Goon --
1 Town Doctor
1 out of (Town Cop, Town Watcher) with equal chance.

-- if Mafia Godfather + Mafia Roleblocker --
1 Town Watcher
1 out of (Town Doctor, Town Cop) with equal chance.

-- if Mafia Godfather + Mafia Goon --
1 Town Macho Cop
1 out of (Town Doctor, Town Watcher) with equal chance.

[farside22]

I'll be inning to mod it in 5 days. (and I want to be the first one D:)

The setup can actually be expressed in a much simpler fashion, as so:

• 1
  Mafia Goon
  , 1
  Mafia Godfather
  , 1
  Town Macho Cop
  , 1
  Town Doctor
  , 5
  Town Citizens
  
  
• 1
  Mafia Goon
  , 1
  Mafia Godfather
  , 1
  Town Macho Cop
  , 1
  Town Watcher
  , 5
  Town Citizens
  
  
• 1
  Mafia Goon
  , 1
  Mafia Roleblocker
  , 1
  Town Doctor
  , 1
  Town Cop
  , 5
  Town Citizens
  
  
• 1
  Mafia Goon
  , 1
  Mafia Roleblocker
  , 1
  Town Doctor
  , 1
  Town Watcher
  , 5
  Town Citizens
  
  
• 1
  Mafia Godfather
  , 1
  Mafia Roleblocker
  , 1
  Town Watcher
  , 1
  Town Doctor
  , 5
  Town Citizens
  
  
• 1
  Mafia Godfather
  , 1
  Mafia Roleblocker
  , 1
  Town Watcher
  , 1
  Town Cop
  , 5
  Town Citizens

Note that Mafia Godfathers receive a Mafia Goon Role PM.

@farside, I think only the cop in the last setup should be macho as the only purpose of making him macho is to prevent follow the cop, which he can't do in the other scenarios as there is a roleblocker

Okay sounds good. If I die any time soon I may join it.

[farside22]

Hmm

Moonlight Mafia

13 town 4 mafia

9 VTs
2 bulletproofs
1 cop (sane)
1 vig

2 goons
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Godfather

Nightless.

Nightless? And I agree that 2 BP's are too one sided. Scum will loss if it comes to end game and all BP has to do is claim and town to lynch correctly.

[farside22]

Nightless Vengeful Mayhem

2 Mafia Goons
1 Two-Shot Day Goon

8 Vanilla Townies

Notes

Two-Shot Day Goon can choose to shoot anyone during the game any time. Limited to two uses.
When a VT has been lynched on D1, s/he can choose to take someone else down with him/her. Only affects D1.

Interesting.....
I assume the scum member PM's the mod to let them know who they would kill. Also the mafia member who is the shotter should only be allowed to do the action once per day.

[farside22]

Nightless Vengeful Mayhem

2 Mafia Goons
1 Two-Shot Day Goon

8 Vanilla Townies

Notes

Two-Shot Day Goon can choose to shoot anyone during the game any time. Limited to two uses.
When a VT has been lynched on D1, s/he can choose to take someone else down with him/her. Only affects D1.

Interesting.....
I assume the scum member PM's the mod to let them know who they would kill.

Also the mafia member who is the shotter should only be allowed to do the action once per day.

Which is obvious.
Meanwhile, I think that it should end the day when the goon shoots, should it?
I assume that there wouldn't be any QT or chat between them, so they going to play with their wits.

mmmm nightless is tough with no QT chat. Also I don't believe the day should end if the goon shots as that helps the mafia not the town.
IE:
mafia goon shoots at the start of day 1 with no info, day 1 ends
day 2 starts mafia shoots again, day 2 ends

day 3 starts with no info other then shots.

So there should be a lynch or at least players agreeing on a majority to lynch or no lynch that day.

[farside22]

Hmm

Moonlight Mafia

13 town 4 mafia

9 VTs
2 bulletproofs
1 cop (sane)
1 vig

2 goons
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Godfather

Nightless.

Nightless? And I agree that 2 BP's are too one sided. Scum will loss if it comes to end game and all BP has to do is claim and town to lynch correctly.

Would making them 1-shot, per Amrun's suggestion, be good enough? Because if not, I can make one of them a VT.

And yes, Nightless. Hence the name. The mafia would obv get daychat.

1 shot BP is okay, however nightless makes no sense. You have PR's, when are they supposed to send in their information?

[farside22]

Nightless Vengeful Mayhem

2 Mafia Goons
1 Two-Shot Day Goon

8 Vanilla Townies

Notes

Two-Shot Day Goon may only shot once per Game Day.

Limited to two uses.
When a VT has been lynched on D1, s/he can choose to take someone else down with him/her. Only affects D1.
Mafia has Day Talk.

Ic.

Fixed for clarity. And good looking to boot. If you chose to run this instead of the other game, let me know.

[farside22]

Before the day ends. I should have clarified that it was instant-night.

Scum day talks?
mmmmm still I don't see the point of it. I know some people do what is called Twilight instead of night giving players something like 24 hours to turn in their action but seriously if you don't like Night time because of waiting I usually have a 48 to 72 hour night.
Personal looking at your set up I see no reason for it to be nightless.

[farside22]

Tradegy game: Cultist are not normal

Earworm: Not bad game. I bit of WIFOM, claiming doesn't do anything until later in the game......

drmyshottyizsik: See Tradegy point above.

[farside22]

Medical School of Hard Knocks

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop

2 Town-Aligned Armed Compulsive Doctors
1 Town-Aligned Tracker
4 Vanilla Townies

Special mechanic: The Armed Compulsive Doctors begin the game as any typical Compulsive Doctor--they must protect one person per night and cannot choose to not protect. If their protection is ever successful, they are notified and stripped of their protecting powers, and instead given a one-shot vig ability. (This role was originated by, I think, the Fonz over on the "Should the Doctor be Euthanized?" thread--I just added the compulsive part.)

The Mafia also has a factional one-shot Hitman ability (a kill that bypasses protection).

Day start.

Seriously just something I thought off the top of my head, and the number of respective playslots may still need to be tweaked, but thoughts?

So if the mafia use a hitman and the doctor protects, the hit goes through and the doc protect isn't successful. I assume this means they ability that is 1 shot vig doesn't happen?


I really like the game above.

IChew I have think about the game a bit more.

[farside22]

Pick Your Weapon Mafia V3

1 Mafia Goon
1 BP GF(guilty on cop results)
1 Mafia Role Cop

1 Jailkeeper/BP IC(Receives a VT pm at the start of the game but at the start of day 2, if he wasn't lynched day 1, he is auto confirmed as town.)
1 Odd Night Vig/1 Shot Day Vig
1 Cop
7 Townies

Notes:

Before the game starts everyone who is town get a PM that looks like this.

Hello ________ welcome to Open _____. You are a member of the town. At this point you need to send me a PM telling me whether you want a Jailkeeper or a Innocent Child and whether you want an Odd Night Vig and a 3 Shot Vig. After everyone submits their votes role PMs will be sent out. Have fun!

Mafia do not get to vote.
After all votes are sent in everyones roles are determined randomly and role PMs go out.
I felt this was a nice twist on a PYP type game. Plus I feel it may satisfy Hoopla.

@GreyIce- I had that exact idea last night and came here to post it,,, but you said it!!!!

I really feel this game is slighted towards town. What happens if there is one mafia with the BPIC, then what?
Mafia can't kill the ICBP so does that mean no win?
Also the role PM says 3 shot vig, but the set up as 1 odd night and 1shot day vig (really who would not pick the 3 shot odd vig?)

[farside22]

Pick Your Weapon Mafia V4

1 Mafia Goon
1 BP GF(guilty on cop results)
1 Mafia Role Cop

1 Jailkeeper/BP IC(Receives a VT pm at the start of the game but at the start of day 2, if he wasn't lynched day 1, he is auto confirmed as town.)
1 Odd Night Vig/1 Shot Day Vig
1 Cop
7 Townies

Notes:

Before the game starts everyone who is town get a PM that looks like this.

Hello ________ welcome to Open _____. You are a member of the town. At this point you need to send me a PM telling me whether you want a Jailkeeper or a Innocent Child and whether you want an Odd Night Vig or a 1 Shot Day Vig Vig. After everyone submits their votes role PMs will be sent out. Have fun!

Mafia do not get to vote.
After all votes are sent in everyones roles are determined randomly and role PMs go out.
I felt this was a nice twist on a PYP type game. Plus I feel it may satisfy Hoopla.

The Mafia Win when they hold 50% or more of the game. The BPIC will be end gamed if that is the case.

What is the point of making a mafia member a GF if he shows guilty?
I agree with Hoopla about getting ride of the BPIC and just making it a IC with a doc out there to protect the player.

[farside22]

Rogue mafia:
The rogue will not win this game. Having a kill in which they can not use on the mafia hoses the player.
More then likely I see mafia winning.

Imagine
8 town
4 mafia

day 1 mis lynch
7-4
two kills at night to the town
5-4 (mylo)

2 Mafia GF
2 Millers
1 Cop
3 VT

This interesting in that only the millers would be considered confirm town. I would put that millers receive town PM's so that claiming day 1 and giving the town better chance to win.

Sleepwalkers - having only one player do the kill hurts the scum. What is the point of GF except he dies and flips town.
Also Sleepwalker sounds more like a PGO.



Hoopla: What happens if more then one player targets the reverse player?
IE: Is everyone that targets the player safe?