DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Vote: sex w/ shafteds wife club

Obviously one scumy threesome

[PoketheAlpaca]

I agree with everyhting PF has said.
Ill reread later.
+1

[PoketheAlpaca]

Sorry Im not posting much here. Changing acounts is more detestable than I thought.

Ill give you my thoughts tonight.

Tajo.

[PoketheAlpaca]

This is perhaps the most fascinatingly frightening thing I've seen in a while (though my tiredness + big test tomorrow might well be contributing heavily to that perception). Especially the idiosyncratic posting and the mounting (but probably unfounded) fear that we'll get stuck in the random stage too long. Anyway. Hey, other head, how sure are you re Raging Wishbone's scumhood? I feel tempted to random vote Zmd but you got here first.

Do you have some grudge? Your partner knows what she's doing in this game. Listen to her!
She was only wrong about one couple, but she has fixed this mistake already.

If she was only wrong with one then why didn't you wagon RW or YW?

Vote Trotsky

. Communist scum!

Here's a question for everyone - how many lynches do you think would be ideal in the next action block, if any?

If we are allowed any number of lynches, we should probably lynch any one we find to be scum any time we find them.

I'm taking that as over-reacting to an obv-prod vote. It can stay.

Pesco

Did you perceive what you called an over reaction as being over defensive, Yes or no? Why is it a scumtell in your mind?
And yes i realize incamn is dead now. You can answer from a standpoint on tells can't you?

wow just had sex with the wife ironically enough. No time for a post but have to say this deep south thing is exciting. Damn shame incamn was being so obviously townie.

So Yos noticed the tracker breadcrumb. why did you point it out so blatantly?

I really don't think that was meant as a breadcrumb or at least I didn't catch it. Incamn said it was an insertion of there own life into the game.

Calling incamn and obv town and complaing not only shows false sympathy but also acts like a Giant "I told you so" to everyone in relation to your earlier post here:

oh and

vote: frog dodging

hasn't posted yet.

What made YOU single out the Frog, when you obviously knew about a number of non-posters?

I believe he was going for irony, maybe sarcasm.

I'm leaning town in Incamn.

Here's a question for everyone - how many lynches do you think would be ideal in the next action block, if any?

Could we have more discussion of the above please. We need to break the set up quickly if we're going to do it at all.

Yay I'm definatly keeping my vote on SWSW for now. Should be done reading pages 4 and 5 shortly.

[PoketheAlpaca]

LOL, PF simulposted.

[PoketheAlpaca]

46. Pesco Light is too serious. Slight scummy vibe.

Seriously? Despite the fact we don't have the TIME to not be serious?

Prob scum.
Trotsky
Frog Dodging
Pesco-Light

I desire a full case on us. Now. Two little pokes doesn't cut it.

My case is that you are the most scummy person in my reread. Incamnito was joking with his comments, yet you attacked him assuming he was serious. Also, you really though Incamnito was prob scum, neutral or prob town when you confirmed your vote agaisnt him?

Tajo..

[PoketheAlpaca]

Calling incamn and obv town and complaing not only shows false sympathy but also acts like a Giant "I told you so" to everyone in relation to your earlier post here:

Well i did tell you so. I'm much more subtle as scum, go read more of my games.

79.

Yeah that's a brilliant scum strategy. Run up a player to a premature wagon thus drawing attention to yourself and then kill said player confirming the player you were attempting to mislynch but got bored of waiting for was actually town.

This is actually a good point. Although its possible that if we assume scum killed incamnito and Pesco is scum, other scumpartner could have decided the kill.

A scum partner that is a real ignoramous. So which players would fit that bill?

So you really think we can include Pesco and all Incamnito attackers in the prob town list?

[PoketheAlpaca]

Calling incamn and obv town and complaing not only shows false sympathy but also acts like a Giant "I told you so" to everyone in relation to your earlier post here:

Well i did tell you so. I'm much more subtle as scum, go read more of my games.

79.

Yeah that's a brilliant scum strategy. Run up a player to a premature wagon thus drawing attention to yourself and then kill said player confirming the player you were attempting to mislynch but got bored of waiting for was actually town.

This is actually a good point. Although its possible that if we assume scum killed incamnito and Pesco is scum, other scumpartner could have decided the kill.

A scum partner that is a real ignoramous. So which players would fit that bill?

So you really think we can include Pesco and all Incamnito attackers in the prob town list?

Hello Mr. strawman. How many players were actively attacking incamn? How many were bandwagoning for bandwagoning's sake?

Ok. My bad.
Do you really think we can call Pesco town?

[PoketheAlpaca]

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

Because now he's a dead tracker.

Aye, but surely it's better that he looked town than that he looked scummy.

Also, perhaps it would have been better if people hadn't been spending their whole time shouting "OMG he's soooo town"

Yes why in god's name would I want people to stop bandwagoning an obv townie in a speed game? Shame on me!

There were five on the wagon. Suck one.

Also, what is your point? That we didn't like a wagon on a person who is now revealed town?

What are you on your period? You syncing up again?[/had to say it]. Generally false sympathy is a classic scumtell especially when its over a dead town power role.

@Yosariwen and anyone else who cares to chime in... Did Nuwen out Incamnito as a Tracker?

I don't get it. What does Portishead have to do with Zmd? It is an inside joke? I want answers!

Are you that dense?

Incamn's crumbing is neutral for now, as there are multiple data roles than can be of either alignment and would benefit from early crumbs. Currently a null tell.

p much

If that's what you thought then why didn't jump on yosariwen with a vote. This game is suppose to go quickly right?

Lurker speed lynching is fail.

So far I see a lot of stupid and very little scummy.

I'd like him to be staring at a few votes when/if he finally shows up.

I'd like him to be an exaple to everyone else who can't be bothered.

And you said it yourself.. time is not on our side. You convinced me.

Let's go through this in turn.

What benefit, exactly, do you get from us having votes when we turn up?

What makes you think we can't be bothered, rather than any number of other things that could have come up - personal issues etc?

Time may not be on our side, but that doesn't mean we rush. It just means we pack in the information density - in this game, we have to pack it in time rather than space, but the principal is the same.

Sex w/ shafteds wife club, why is it a shame that incam was being townie?

I love this post... Did you really not read that he had been killed? I tend to agree with you speed lynching lurkers is fail, but I do agree with a few others who said this game needs to move quick.

Did you think Frog dodge was putting up a front here? His questions seemed genuine to me since he hadn't posted at all before that.

Something feels a little wierd about J-Scopes post 89.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 18#1644818
Feels more like he is speculating then deciding on things for

themself

. Call it a gut suspicion.

General comment: Its best to lynch whoever is scummy. Lynching a scummy lurker is fine but lynching a v/la lurker would not be good. I'm going to hunt scum primarily.

Edit while previwing: I, PokerFace, read/write posts slowly. Tajo reading/posting here at same time is mega lawls!
For those not keeping score Tajo was 107, 109, 110, 112
I was 106 and this post.
I didn't know 2 people could be logged into mafiascum on the same account at the same time until this game. Its funny. i'm going to stop posting for the night to avoid triple posting and or getting ourselves mod killed by the 15 post rule if its in both games.

[PoketheAlpaca]

DGb with Hoopla

Why are you doing this?

Sorry, I just copied my previous mistake from my previous post. I thought DGB was with Hoopla. She is paired with Plum, right_?

[PoketheAlpaca]

DAMMIT.

[PoketheAlpaca]

<<PF Catching Up. I haven't been feeling healthy as of late. I'll let you guys know if i get worse and or need out of any of my games. I just came back to mafia and I don't want to leave like this since I've never replaced out of anything.

What specifically in post 89? The first two paragraphs? My TL;DR point there is I don’t think it was a vig kill.

Basically it feels like you are not acting on your thoughts. You speculated and really reach no real conclusion. You've been doing alot of Fos's too without voting so it's kinda like that.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05#1648405

well a cursory read of this thread has told me

yosariwen

, incamnito and zaphod are town

i'd vote for frog dodging but my better half apparently already had the right idea

This is an excellent early quote from scum Trotsky calling out three people as town. It's undoubtedly going to be labelled wifom, but I don't think rofl (I presume it was him) wouldn't put in a scumbuddy if he was going to make these early claims.

So, if one were to be scum, who is worth looking at?

Trotsky and Yos were both scum I'm starting to think one of Zaphod or ortohoops is scum.

More posting and

anal

later (around 8 hours time).

Kinky

What rolefishing are you talking about? You really think Yosariwen is scum?

...are you sure you've been reading the game Tajo, you've been very sloppy so far.

As far as the crumb outting goes - doesn't it make sense if they were scum to not mention it and bring it up in the thread. Sure they could have been fishing for confirmation - but risk bringing that much obvious attention to themselves? They're both better players than that. To me, it doesn't look like a smart move for either alignment, but it could be more useful for scum.

Nice wifom defense of Yosariwen

Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.

Wait what? First you say there are too smart to do this and then you say their actions are bizzare and they are caught? I'm thinking you just switch from help your scum buddie to mega distance mode.

In addition to Yoswen pointing out the breadcrumb, we have J-Scope fishing to understand it. One or both need to die faster.

I wasn't fishing because I hadn't bought the crumb theory. In both those posts I thought Incamn had voted for ZMD because of Portishead. Incamn explicitly said:

Vote ZMD

why?

I was listening to Portishead...

Which I took to mean that ZMD also listens to Portishead or should relate to the joke vote on some level. If anything, in the back of my mind I was wondering if "Portishead" was an inside joke or some

clue

to another game they had played together in. So I wanted a reaction from them that might confirm something along those lines.

You look too much into clues me thinks. Inside jokes are laughed at by parties involved. You have said nothing and or waited for a laugh.

I kinda think...

yousonew
sexwithashaft

...and probably frogdoger may be townies. In fact without my partner around I would unvote frogdodge if he was in danger of being lynched... Yoso I am just not so sure about,

I also dont like that she is posting elsewhere as someone else pointed out but not here?

Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.

Please stop being wishy washy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 59#1649359
I'm guessing tajo voted SWSW here because he thought SWSW trying to blame A&B for a modkill attempt was scummy. I don't think its bad if A&B were only ones they saw online. Thinking there is some crazed conspiracy involving modkillings
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54#1649554
is just stupid. I doubt SWSW is with trotsky and yos considering that looked way too heavy to be a bus. They could be SK but their heavy activness makes me think the could be town.

So far I got most suspicion of ortohoops considering the shit defence and distancing I pointed out. I've read up to page ten reading the next five now and if nothing changes I'll be voting ortohoops when twighlight ends.

[PoketheAlpaca]

EBWOP:
You

should

have said nothing and or waited for a laugh

not gone into it

[PoketheAlpaca]

Regarding YoSo, I would not vote to lynch them, (other than their possible lie and trying to find an excuse for sexEd..

Where did they try to make an excuse for SWSW during the modkill fiasco?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1649583
If anything Yos tried to blame them for it all the way through

Wow, that's actually a good catch. I want to hear what team Yosariwen has to say about it

I'm basically convinced now. Sexy shaft is right, lets move it.

Unvote, vote: Yosariwen

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.

First you want to hear more then you decide you just want to vote, and finally you decide you don’t want to hear more and just want a lynch. This looks very jumpy and I don’t buy that you’re convinced since you weren’t directly looking at Yosariwen before that first post but you considered Incamnito scum from the early posts. Did you believe Incamn had crumbed in the beginning? If so you must have thought Yosariwen had caught SCUM crumbing. If not, you aren’t reading.

We should hear more defense from Nuwen, but your vote here looks opportunistic rather than scumhunting.

Vote: Ortohoops

I'd argue there vote was ahh crap looks like I can't help yoswen anymore. Fuck I'll bus them.


During the posts between here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 17#1649817
and here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 86#1649886
RW voted and unvoted for yoswen asking back and forth about lieing as A&B pressured them. RW's suspcions seems to flop way to fast on Yoswen and I got to wonder if they tried to hammer/bus there buddy then because they didn't like being attacked. Bullied by others you looked scared for your survival there RW.

Would I hammer you both now? NO! But I have no problem putting you at l1 after spending half my night defending you

and I will let the rest of the town be the judge of this and who we lynch.

Anyone else besides me think this doesn't make alot of sence. You don't want hammer but you want to vote and or lynch them?

This is Plum at the helm saying that Yosariwen is probably town. And that Raging Wishbone and Apples and Banana are probably my top suspects. I will, jhowever, try to do a readthrough and commentary now; we'll see how long it is . . .

Ortohoops' post noting something Trotsky said early is good. It may involve WIFOM but I'm inclined to agree that Trotsky was more likely pointing out three actual townies (Myself is confirmed to me, Incamn has flipped, and I'm inclined to say Yosariwen is town without this).

Yay a no... Try again.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64#1650764
Rest of your post lookslike a huge defence of yoswen too

First real post of the game, and it points out a breadcrumb. I've been trying to figure out if there are any possible scum motivations for doing this, by looking at the role list, and the only one I can think of is trying to get Incamn killed by the Mafia/SK (other than her), if there is one.

I don’t follow the logic of this idea. If she can kill and she thinks she’s found town power role then why doesn’t she kill it herself? The only upside I can think is that another killing faction doesn't kill her, but that's at very low odds that early so it doesn't seem worth it as any faction. What other reason is there?

Oddly enough Yoswen turned up scum doctor. A role that can't send the scum kill if you check the first post. I'm guessing they want the SK to do the job or their buddy to do the job. You asked more about the crumbing vs clue and joking so I'm slightly considering it being a signle to you do the job aswell. slightly.

ortolan here

Why would you assume something before you have reason to assume it? I'd say that Yosariwen pointing out the breadcrumb thus signaling to the scum "HEY-O POWER ROLE HERE" is a much better reason for the kill than to frame 5 people on a bandwagon.

So you think they are an SK? Otherwise please explain to me why it would not make more sense for them simply to point out the crumb in their quicktopic and then kill.

I already broke down the likely reasons for all five votes in one of my posts.

Yer but the point was you explained their votes in terms of "they're all dumbasses" etc. but this implies that the reason they are voting is that they are dumb townies, as opposed to scummy. Yet you still went on to vote Pesco (again having earlier just said they were "weak" rather than scummy).

You're also basically saying that Incamn was guilty until proven innocent, which is completely ass-backwards here. Power roles of both alignments have motive to crumb their action, yes. However, pointing it out will either tell the scum what they already know or say "HEY-O POWER ROLE HERE" to them.

I agree with this though.

Explain "Incamn's crumbing was a null-tell" v. "Incamn's crumbing was more likely to be scum than town" to me, please.

and this.

Why are you assuming it was a scum kill, Frog? Especally considering that there were 5 votes on the wagon, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Incamn kill was a compulsive vig (remember, if there is a compulsive vig, that role has to kill every single action phase, every 96 hours.)

Why would you assume compulsive vig over SK anyway? Each appears equally likely to be in the setup. I am wondering whether to interpret this as its own attempt at a crumb.

...

I don't see why we're assuming scum will play a carbon copy of the other game anyway - nor do I see any indication that that was what DGB did in war in heaven. If we say that scum are only x, y and z type of people, then it's way too easy for scum just to avoid the prescribed scumtells and never be lynched. We need to stop thinking so much about this, frankly. It's really very simple. We play mafia, just at twice/thrice/quicker the normal pace.

I agree with this again. Froggy's become quite pro-town in my eyes (and reactions similar to mine).

If, for example, they were a scum power role trying to get another scum to send in the kill because they wanted to use their power role instead, it would have been a good play.

Actually, they can day-talk, so they didn't need to declare it in-thread.

I like A&B's 186, especially:

This makes even more sense if Yosariwen is an SK that is setting up a Compulsive Vig claim

My thoughts exactly.

The other point I will make out power roles is that saying they are equally likely, if truthful to be Mafia as to be town is assuming the principle of insufficient reason- "because there are 3 mafia power roles listed, and 5 town, a power-role is 3/8ths likely to be scum." Now while I actually used this earlier to assume an SK or vig is equally likely in this setup, it's not necessarily wise to do. Just because a mafia power-role can appear in the game, doesn't necessarily mean it's necessarily as likely to appear as another listed town power-role. Especially take into account game balance here.

...and something else I just realised. Nuwen explicitly said that Incamnito's crumb was for an

information

role. None of the mafia power-roles are, in fact,

information

roles.

Um, scum can apparently daytalk because it says they can in the scum role PMs posted in the mod's post. Putting the word "apparently" into sentances like that is basically a force of habit by this point, since if I didn't, you probably would have called THAT a scumtell.

I don't actually like the use of the word "apparently" here either. The opening pms very obviously state that scum can daytalk. There's no reason to use qualifying phrases like "it looks like".

If Incamn had been a scum who was trying to breadcrumb tracker early on so they could use that to their advantage later, then calling it out and putting the spotlight on Incamn early would have been an AWESOME pro-town play.

The point being made here (by Frog I believe) was in fact that the breadcrumb is more likely to have come from town than scum- so if in fact the breadcrumb did turn out to be from scum it still would have been bad play to have pointed it out, because this outcome was less probable than the alternative.

Only if the crumb is noticed. If a scum can plant a crumb early on and no one notices it, then the scum can use that crumb to set up a fake claim later in the game; or can choose to not do so, if it's to their advantage. Which is another advantage to pointing out a crumb, especally if it's a crumb that seems like one a pro-town person wouldn't really want to make.

Really; why would a pro-town tracker feel the need to crumb at the very part of day 1? I still don't get that, personally; considering it's a semi-open game, the odds of a tracker claiming tracker and not being believed seems very small to me.

You basically contradict yourself here. You suggest scum have a decent chance of fake-breadcrumbing/fake-claiming tracker yet suggest there is little reason not to believe a tracker-claim.

I'm still catching up (thanks to Hoops for doing most of the work so far) but right now I'm very very happy with the Yoswen vote. I know people don't like wall o' texts so I'll probably make another post to get up to present.

Huh? Is it just me or did ortlon just go from defending yoswen perception of a crumb to frog to attacking yoswen for pointing the crumb out all in one post?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 21#1651521
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50#1651550
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#1651660
I'll read these posts again when some medicine I took slows down but it still looks way off.

I think Jscope has seemed very involved and very analytical in all their posts. I don't think they have done anything scummy. I am not sure what to think of Poke/Tajo but I also have not gotten any bad vibes from them. I would love to hear more from Poke/Tajo and, expecially DGB/Plum.

I will be back with more thoughts after a full reread and hopefully RR will add his thoughts soon too. I would love to find more links with Trotsky and Yo/Nuwen...

Huh where did you get a sudden flop of opinion on me? You said you thought PtA was town saying tajo read like himself and I was like a card player. And now you are all changing your opinion? I can't recall if Tajo posted much between you reading us as town then changing your mind. Feels like your view change is false just to look like you are agreeing with SWSW

I am still doing a re-read, I will post more thoughts soonish if I can. Yeah, I apologize you wrote 3 in red, so do you have

any kinda case on Death the hog, Jscope, or Tajo/Poker team? I am not seeing anything odd in their posts so far?

I need to read Death again, but for some reason I thought he was on the Yo/Nuw wagon? Anyways, I will finish my reread and I would like to talk to my partner when he comes around to hear his thoughts. If you have a case against someone, please post it.

Huh what the fuck did you just flop again all on the same page? Do you think i am scum or I am town. Pick one, I can't be both.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1652430
Your vote here came off like OMGUS on zaphod since you orginally quoted suspicions on them

Thinking one of ortohoops or RW would be Yos&Trot's buddy.

<<Waits for twighlight to end so he can vote somebody. I don't think votes count atm

You look too much into clues me thinks. Inside jokes are laughed at by parties involved. You have said nothing and or waited for a laugh.

I was just looking into something I didn't understand. Tell me, did you understand why he said he was voting for ZMD

because

of Portishead? I thought it was good to ask to determine whether it was something he was willing or unwilling to explain.

Nope I didn't. I figured it was RVS joking and the punchline would get shown later if it was important. Even I joked in the RVS thinking SWSW would like a laugh. Speaking of jokes...

nyballosulgniirkps?
Where did you get that name from? A list of my worst spelling fuck ups of all time? heh heh.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Repeat after me. W-I-F-O-M.

...Anyway why would a townie care whether they were the L-1 or the L vote on a wagon? Why would you comment on it to begin with?

No, you repeat after me.

Plays that are bad for any alingment aren't scumtells

. Why would town do this? No idea. Why would scum do this? No idea. Why is scum more likely to do this than town, then? They aren't.

He actually brings up an incredibly valid point.

Why were you willing to be the L-1 vote, but not the hammer?

I actually brought up that point first Sens check the top of the page where I said this:

Would I hammer you both now? NO! But I have no problem putting you at l1 after spending half my night defending you

and I will let the rest of the town be the judge of this and who we lynch.

Anyone else besides me think this doesn't make alot of sence. You don't want hammer but you want to vote and or lynch them?

RW's response to that earlier was:

Anyone else besides me think this doesn't make alot of sence. You don't want hammer but you want to vote and or lynch them?

No, this doesn't make sense. And no, that doesn't make it a scumtell.

And yes I would call it a scum tell. You didn't seem fully into your suspicions like they were false or you knew yoswen was scum but were afraid to bus. Basically you didn't seem all that confident in your position. You have had alot of wishywashyness and flops on people.

Vote: RW