Large Normal 92 - Game Over! Scum Win!

[AceMarksman]

Heh. Glad to see you too, mastin.

And RC too! I'm looking forward to finally being able to play another game with you.

And now for the conundrum of who to vote on policy. I think I'll stick with my favorite,

Vote: Zwetschenannoyingname

Also, our mod is a zombie. Zombies are scary. Scary = scummy, therefore

FoS:Jebus

[AceMarksman]

Amished you should know that mastin and I are suicide bomb NK-proof jesters that win if either of us are killed. We also win with the mafia and any other non-town factions.

...


Wow, I can see why zwet does this, It's quite fun.

[AceMarksman]

note to self: If mastin is at L-2 and reverses a bandwagon and it hits town, then he is scum.

[AceMarksman]

Dust, the only ONE THING that I dislike about your playstyle is your unwillingness to take part in the RVS. It's fun and starts discussion, what's not to like?

[AceMarksman]

Oh goodness, maturin as well? This is going to be a fun game.

[AceMarksman]

@Amished: Tell me about it. Read newbie 742. That was hell on earth incarnated in a single game of mafia.

[AceMarksman]

Mastin, don't start tunneling. We're only on page four.

IMHO, everyone getting worked up about mastin's posts (including Mastin) are scummy and/or trying to appear overly townie (by this, I don't mean trying to feign being town, just trying too hard to prove it). Discuss.

[AceMarksman]

How is calling everyone voting for Mastin scummy not chainsaw defense?

IMHO, everyone getting worked up about mastin's posts (

including Mastin

) are scummy and/or trying to appear overly townie (by this, I don't mean trying to feign being town, just trying too hard to prove it). Discuss.

What was that caboose?

[AceMarksman]

About Mastin's posts: I think ignoring them would be more scummy than commenting on them in the first place. Clearly he's a large part of the game and outright ignoring it is anti-town IMO, regardless of what your view of his alignment is.

Where did I say I was ignoring mastin's posts?

[AceMarksman]

What is your problem, caboose? I said people getting worked up about mastin's posts, which includes him, are scummy and/or trying to appear too town. This does not prevent anyone from voting him. How is it chainsaw if I included Mastin in the group of scummy/trying to appear too town?

[AceMarksman]

Mastin and caboose: stop with the novellas, please. Some of the things you are quoting back and forth are pointless and trivial. Plus it's making it a bitch to read the page (!) since I last viewed this thread.

[AceMarksman]

Mastin, just because Dust doesn't post as frequently as you does not mean he is lurking. One post a day is plenty. In fact, I would like the posting frequency from you to slow to at most five per day. Just focus on the big points, don't disect every single post. For an example of what I'm asking you to do, see the player known as "kast." his posts are long, but they are infrequent compared to yours, therefore making them easier to read. I've been busy all day and haven't really read your posts, but I will soon.

[AceMarksman]

this is quite the interesting situation. This is the first game I've been in with a lyncher, and the first I've seen where the lyncher claimed his true role on d1.

[AceMarksman]

EBWOP: Consider this a continuation of 276, I hit enter too soon:

I think we shouldn't dewll on this for too long, or else we'll get trapped in some god awful WIFOM gyre. Instead we should look towards other targets. For one, I would like to see a summarized case on OP in one post, as the points/posts against him have been strung out and therefore tl;dr.

[AceMarksman]

OK, now I would like OP to answer all of cater's points.

[AceMarksman]

Maturin, I don't agree with your summary in 284. From what I have seen from OP, he doesn't seem all that scummy to me. Call it a gut read if you will, but I don't see him as scum.

[AceMarksman]

Other lynches I'd currently be supportive of: King, Zer0, hewitt, alvin, 9000, Ace, Stevie, K7, Phoebus, KoC, Emp, zora, Nanook, and OP.

Why are you supportive of so many lynches? What cases do you have against these players?

[AceMarksman]

Also, where is tarhalindur? I really would like to hear what he thinks of this game.

[AceMarksman]

FoS:King

Explanations please. Namely why you lurked for the first 14 pages of this game and why you just voted mastin.

[AceMarksman]

The way I see it is that RC is pretty much confirmed town if Mastin isn't lying about his lyncher role. I mean, how many times have you seen a lynchee be anything but pro-town?

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-13

Mastin - 8

(Caboose, Devestation, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King)

OrangePenguin - 3

(cateraction, Maturin24, hewitt)

Zwetschenwasser - 2

(AceMarksman, zer0ph34r)

Dust - 2

(StevieT92, Mastin)

Devestation - 1

(Azhrei)

zer0ph34r - 1

(ryan2754)

zu_Faul - 1

(RedCoyote)

Red Coyote -1

(zwetschenwasser)

Not Voting - 6

(Everyone Else)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.

Seeking a replacement for over_9000.
Might possibly have to replace Phoebus as well, he's not picked up his prod yet.

[AceMarksman]

and dev shouldn't waste his vidge on mastin who is effectively no longer a threat.

[AceMarksman]

Holy posts batman! I do believe that I asked the activity to die down a little bit? It seems the opposite has happened. Why, oh why?

They're (no offense intended, but this is what I had thought even before the game began) three of the best players here, and deadly, regardless of alignment.

*blushes* Thanks, but I don't think so.

BREADCRUMBS. MEAN. NOTHING. Stop acting like they do.

Can you back this up?

After reading more posts:

Nevermind. OP, amished et. al. bring up good points to refute it.

At this point (post 327), mastin isn't a good lynch because he is no longer a legitamate threat against the town. If we don't have a good lynch by the end of the day, then Mastin takes this role as lynching third party is always better than lynching town.

Vote:: OP

for driving this lynch at the moment. Now that we have this information, lets try and lynch scum that are a threat against us.

No. The only thing I believe is that he is the lyncher, which I believe because 1 player accused him of it, and he confirmed it. Unless it is some unbelievable gambit on those two's part, but that would still mean he is scum.

Mastin is an anti-town role, yes. But he has little to no way of winning at the moment. His lynch is not optimal because of the lack of information it would give us.

Smart scum bread crumb all the time. Townies do too. They can help support a claim, but only so far. Bread crumbs are often used by scum, who plan on fake claiming. People like doctors and stuff bread crumb though.

But bread crumbs only mean something when a player is confirmed somehow.

Generally this is true, however we must take into consideration that Mastin breadcrumbed lyncher, and said that he does this whenever he is third party anti-town.

Mastin: can you link us to a few examples of games in which you were third part anti town and breadcrumbed early in the game?

Oh wait-- you're a lyncher?

If you say so.

Erm, you said so. I don't get this, were you trying to prove a point or were you just answering every sentance like you always do?

I'm not that smart.

It's quotes like this (statements that support an argument that can neither be proved nor disprooved) that make you look scummy. If I hadn't seen you play like this as town before, this would deserve a FoS.

In his first game, I was an IC, and Mastin was scum. He had this very scummy plan. I was one of the few who defended him, when most jumped on him. I figured he was new and made a mistake and probably wasn't scum. BIG MISTAKE. He was scum, I fell for it, and the scum won, I think. I won't let him fool me twice.

This makes it sound like you have a personal vendetta against Mastin. I would like you to put all of your points against mastin summarized in one post for us to see please. I can't help but think that you're either a helplessly tunneling but well intentioned town or scum pushing for an easy lynch. I'm leaning towards the latter.

The tone in your posts has become more defensive. I'd call that a form of panicking.

1) Defensive=/=panicking.
2) Can you quote examples of this?

Despite the fact that many people have made it clear they agree that I am not today's lynch--
The EARLIEST I can win is tomorrow. Which means the EARLIEST I am a threat is tomorrow.

Well, those people are wrong. Clearly. The earliest you can win is tomorrow? So why not get rid of the threat before it is a threat?

It's quotes like these, OP, that make me think you are opportunistic scum. Mastin is not a threat at all, so why should we lynch him? Shouldn't we be more productive with our time right now? If you could choose one other player besides Mastin, who would you lynch and why?

@Ace: I actually only looked a t afew names on RC's list, and passed it by. After you mentioned it again, I looked back, and wondered at a few. I tended to beleive him on the lurkers, but some of the other names, not so much. It seems like he was trying to squeeze in a few nonlurkers just for kicks/protecting himself later on. Thelurkers off the top of my head: Zero, King, Emp, 9000, Alvin, K7, Pheobus, and KOC.

RC, why Stevie, Ace, Nanook, or Zora? I know your case on OP

RC, it would be nice for this to be answered

This is going on for way too long. This is to the end of page 16. I'll catch up the rest of the way later. Some of the above may have already been answered.

[AceMarksman]

I would not be surprised at all. It's hilarious seeing the town listen to him though. I am pretty sure he is lying though. This is why I want lynched day 1 instead of 2, because we don't know for sure who his lynchee is, other than his word. We could mislynch on a townie today and the day would be wasted, whereas lynching Mastin day 1 would prevent a mislynch, and then Day 2, we can focus on finding scum. But Mastin has twisted this to compare it to a no lynch, which is stupid. Mastin =/= a no lynch.

Actually, I see what you're saying here, and I agree that a Mastin lynch is better than a mislynch. The only qualms I have about a Mastin lynch is that it would make our JOAT nightkill fodder. Thoughts?

[AceMarksman]

Zoraster, thank you for this:

Scenario 1: We let Mastin live d1 and lynch him day 2.
Probability of Lynching correctly day 1: 5/26= 19%
Probability of Vigil hitting scum night 1 if we lynch wrong (81% of the time): 5/25= 20%
Probability of Vigil hitting scum night 1 if we lynched correctly (19% of the time): 4/25: 16%
Total chance of lynching or shooting at least one scum: 45%
There's also a 3% chance we could kill TWO scum.

Scenario 2: We lynch Mastin d1 and scum hunt day 2.
Probability of vigil hitting scum n1: 5/25: 20%
Probability of lynching scum d2: 5/22: 23%
Probability of lynching or shooting at least one scum: 48%
Probability of lynching or shooting at least TWO scum: 4.6%

That's enough to convince me to

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

Mastin: While I know that this sucks and is unlucky for you, it's the most pro-town course of action. It's nothing personal at all.

I want clarification on this. You're voting OP for pushing a lynch on somebody that you can eventually see being a threat to the town, and who's lynch you would push if only the day was different?

I realize now that a mastin lynch is a good course of action. At the time of this writing, however, I thought that mastin would not be a good lynch because of the possibility of lynching scum that are a threat right now. Based on zor's math, however, I now realize that Mastin's lynch is ideal. That explanation enough?

[AceMarksman]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mastin was actually an SK, asking to be killed at night when he knows he's NK immune.

How do you know than an SK would have NK immunity in this game? It's not information that a townie would have. Small slip, perhaps?

IGMEO Caboose

Mastin: That Fos is OMGUS and you know it.

[AceMarksman]

I mean, I know it's not fair to you, but I do feel that zor's math spelled it all out, and your math with the speculation about the setup isn't as valid as it leaves too much for chance.

[AceMarksman]

Bah mastin, your posts are TOO DAMN LONG! Being away for two days is hell. Rereading now.

[AceMarksman]

The key factor for deciding between these is the number of kills that appear, and that's not information we'll have until tomorrow.

You forget the possibility of a vidge or like role. We might have a number of kills originating from pro-town roles.

[AceMarksman]

You are all sitting back and convincing yourselves that it is alright to vote Mastin who we are pretty damn sure is not scum instead of scumhunting. It's pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

Pretty damn sure he's not scum? He claimed lyncher which is an anti-town role! IMHO, a 100% chance of hitting an anti town role D1 is fantastic, so why not take it?

[AceMarksman]

I highly doubt that there is a mason recruiter role in this game. I suggest we push that hope aside for now, lest we allow mastin to become a threat.

[AceMarksman]

****!

I checked my role PM again. I don't like what I see.
There was something I had missed before.
If Red's lynched d1, or night-killed, I commit suicide (the next day phase--lynch day one, I die day two, night-kill n3, I die d4). (Great. A one-sided lover pair. :/)

[sarcasm]Sweet. [/sarcasm]

Now the scum effectively would be given two night-kills if I were allowed to live, unless Red's protected. :/

Well, on the bright side, nk'ing (or lynching today) Red would instantly confirm my claim.

(Yea, yea, you're going to use this as more reasoning to lynch me. I'll defend against it because I have to. I said I wouldn't lie. Even about information that would harm me. This is further proof of that)

die
scum
die

seriously, if we leave him alive, we are almost guaranteed to lose RC tonight. Thanks, but no thanks.

[AceMarksman]

V/la till monday

[AceMarksman]

Vote: RedCoyote

Why? I can't see RC as scum at the moment if for no other reason that he was mastin's lynch target. I've never seen anyone but a pro town player being a lynchee (sans bastard mod games).

[AceMarksman]

You still believe Mastin told the truth? Your either daft or protecting RedCoyote for dishonest reasons.

You think it's so unbelievable that he didn't? I've played with mastin before and I can tell when he is being sincere.

[AceMarksman]

"...unbellievable that he did?" is how that should read.

[AceMarksman]

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-5

Zer0ph34r - 7

(Caboose, ryan2754, StevieT92, cateraction, King, NanooktheWolf, RedCoyote)

RedCoyote - 3

(Phoebus, Zu_Faul, Zer0ph34r)

cateraction - 2

(Kise, orangepenguin)

Kise - 1

(zoraster)

hewitt - 1

(Empking's Alt)

Caboose - 1

(hewitt)

Not Voting - 7

(Everyone else)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

V/LA:
-orangepenguin - 18th of June

---

Your either daft or protecting RedCoyote for dishonest reasons.

Oh, and why is that huh? Is it not possible for me to think that RC is town? I don't like this statement at all.

Vote: Zu_fowl

[AceMarksman]

If your only reason for thinking he's town is because of the lynchee target bit then say so, if not what are your other reasons?

No, that's about it, but I have

never

seen anything but a pro-town role be a lynchee, and I doubt that this game would be different.

Just for you, I'll say it again: Lying was the only way for Mastin to be able to win.

It's statements like this from zu_Faul that make him look scummy. From my perspective, mastin had already given up on winning early in day one. He told the truth about his (antitown) role early, so what reason would he have for lying about his lynch target?

[AceMarksman]

My vote for AceMarksman dates back to the first day as well, so I can't say that I feel all that guilty for returning my vote to Ace.

Can you outline the reasons for your vote then? Blanket "Oh he did some stuff day one too" statements won't cut it.

[AceMarksman]

My vote for AceMarksman dates back to the first day as well, so I can't say that I feel all that guilty for returning my vote to Ace.

Can you outline the reasons for your vote then? Blanket "Oh he did some stuff day one too" statements won't cut it.

3. AceMarksman - I think that his turn of opinion has raised the bar on the scum - o -meter quite a bit just b/c I didn't fortell his switch. Could be that he felt Mastin was the easier route, or could have thought he was the better. No true read as of yet, although I will say that the switching of sides did grasp my attention.

@Acemarksman - Pretty much the above along with lurking and what not. I could see you as scum somewhat, so I point it out is all. Something better could come along, but as of yet I'm not completely persuaded by some of the other arguments.

I usually do have a problem with players who don't really post as there's just really no read to begin with. At the beginning of Day 2 I find it constructive to point lurker scum out is all ... It never reaches the lynch, but it's a hunch as well as a way to see how others react.

That's it? Really? I would like to point out that the switch that is talked about in nanook's quote is almost exactly what he is doing right now to me.

[AceMarksman]

also, v/la over the weekend, sorry.

[AceMarksman]

OK I'm back. Sorry, but my V/LA was a lot longer than I expected. I'm going back through all I missed now.

[AceMarksman]

I was entirely uncomfortable with the way he went about voting on D1

What about my voting habits made you uncomfortable D1?