Mafia 95 - Quick & Dirty - Game Over!

[ConsonantM]

Vote: inHimshallibe
, FoS: Phoe

.

i have my reasons.

[ConsonantM]

By the way...

if i wanted to out my main, there'd b no point in playing as an alt.

My vote is based off of reasoning so insane, it'd instantly out my main.
(WITHOUT research, let's see how long it takes 4 u 2 figure out my main. )

[ConsonantM]

Oh, and 4 that same reason, i will NOT back up my experience in my opinions.

[ConsonantM]

Oh, and Papa's playing differently than he did as scum.

[ConsonantM]

Online 'n reading. This'll take a few minutes.

[ConsonantM]

Ah, good honest actors never show who they are. i'm not a master, but i like 2 think of myself as skilled under playing as an alt without outing my main rather some bit. Kinda sorta.

Anyway, page 4. I'll spare the quotes.

-The sudden bandwagon on Kise is concerning. Definitely at least one scum in the sudden bandwagon, though doubtfully all.

If anything, Kise was breadcrumbing vanilla townie (the "boring" role on the site), not an anti-town role.

I fail to see how a vanilla townie breadcrumb is scummy. Stephoscope did it in a game that I recently saw, a Large Theme game, Saving Nasubi. It worked brilliantly; all other vanillas (well, most) instantly knew who he was. (If him breadcrumbing an anti-town role WERE to be true, though, then this would also seem to heavily incriminate Phoe if Kise flips goon, for if Phoe were, say, a M. Roleblocker, that'd be a more interesting role than M. Goon, and enough for me to think Phoe is also scum. This would ONLY be if Kise flipped goon, though.)

I was trying to scumhunt in peace but not-so-soft claiming vanilla

What's with u ppl?!?
At least three people breadcrumbing vanilla townie so early, and one flat-out VT claim with no serious votes?!?

Never mind. Misread that as a claim itself. <_<

Come on. i can understand breadcrumbing a little (i love it. ), but a lot...

-If Kise is scum, Blood's a scum buddy. Went from, "hey, stop bandwagonning!", to joining the wagon. If Kise isn't, then Blood may or may not be scum.

-Inhim is still scum, for some reasoning i will not explain, but some of it is that he
[*]Bandwagonned Papa Zito, saying that the person voting Papa "might be onto something"
[*]Bandwagonned Kise for a single quote, stating his willingness to still lynch Papa.

Scum love hiding in soft-vanilla ice cream which raises the percentage of hitting scum here above the baseline D1 averages (optimal lynch).

If he flips town it is terrible town play as it only helps scum to claim vanilla.

While it was a breadcrumb, sure, I don't see what's wrong--people can have different definitions of a "plain" role. And i understand breadcrumbing; i love it. i'd be a chef if i had skill in baking.

RC Vanilla is always bad

Steph was instant-confirmed to all 'nillas in Saving Nasubi. That's not bad, is it?

---
PapaZ, way to steal Sirdan's method of new posts.
---
Good, solid defense, imo.

2. You open the game talking about roles.

opening the game by talking about roles, not so scummy.

If it is pushed too far into rolefishing, THEN it is scummy.

4. Defending the "alt" point when it was obvious Lamont was talking to consonantM

Xyl called Kise an alt during sign ups.

How'd Kise instantly know Lamount was talking about me?

i thought Lamount was talking 2 both of us, personally.

5. Bringing up the issue of Jesters for no reason whatsoever

Not scummy. Many do it, and are shot down, basically told, "We don't talk about jesters on MS.net."

---
i'll need to reread PapaZ's play thusfar in this game and compare 2 what i've seen. helpful 4 scum hunting and all--i dislike this argument between Kise and voters on Kise.

[ConsonantM]

Cat's a good rolefisher. Expected, as a Cat is excellent at snatching fish out of the water.

Seriously, though.
Cat rolefishes, and then calls out BC for doing the same.

Hypocritical, much?

---
Kise seems like a player who likes to jump to conclusions very quickly. It can lead 2 tunneling, so it's something 2 watch out 4, but not a tell of any kind 2 my knowledge. i used 2 b like that, neway, as town.

This seems to almost qualify as the "too scummy to be scum" deviant from the "too townie" fallacy. Almost.
See what I did, there?

More rolefishing from the Cat, and by extent, hypocrisy. Kise didn't claim cop. He claimed an ability performed on even-#'d nights. (He then said investigations on odd-#'d nights, but that's an investigative role. Cops and investigative roles are NOT one and the same. They can be trackers, 4 example.)

Which can b nething.

Even with what was said a bit later, still not something to be interpreted automatically as a cop claim.

I like this guy.

End page 5.

[ConsonantM]

He claimed I have a plain role

He did not claim u have 1, reckon.

Nah. Keeping my vote. Not convinced, nor do I think we're going to get another lynch going by 10pm.

1: This is Reck saying he'll bandwagon,
2: Reck's admitting 2 wanting a quick-lynch.

Yay 4 scumslips!

However, I can't deny the logic of your last point. Don't think this means you're off the hook, though.

unvote: Kise
vote: consonantM

Post. I know you want to.

Votes 4 me 4 no other reason other than the fact that i haven't posted, despite it being clear i had not done so in ANY of my games 4 hours, and was clearly not online.

Acceptable in the RVS.

Not acceptable out of it.

Reck's sudden flip of opinion seems scummy to me.

Not to mention, how he mentions bandwagoning, despite supporting said bandwagon himself.

---

End p. 6.

[ConsonantM]

This isn't true, due to how PR's faking a 'nilla claim would have the opposite outcome.

And is what happened if Kise is telling the truth.

Faking a 'nilla claim makes your true claim far less likely to be believed later on ("Hey, uh...guys...yea, well, I fakeclaimed to avoid the night-kill, okay? Umm...why're you voting me?" Yea...), due to lynch all liars, for example.

So it's a bad idea 2 do.

But not something i'd label as a scum tell. (i've done the opposite--breadcrumb cop as 'nilla.)

At the very least he is lying about something and deserves a LAL as a town liability.

Eh, i've seen town backtrack on their claims more often than scum. sometimes in the RVS to get discussion going, sometimes later on 2 prove a point unsuccessfully. "Uh, no, I'm not the doctor, but I COULD have been; let that be a lesson!" coming from a VT IC comes 2 mind.

I also don't like cateraction's deflection.

i'd rather lynch the unclaimed scummy players than the scummy cop-claim. (My vote for inHim is a vote 4 scum. ) Give 'em a day or 2 (end of n2, in Kise's case) 2 prove/disprove themselves.

---

End page 7.

[ConsonantM]

Let me ask this: On N2, who would be a good person for me to investigate? (Don't be a smartass and say myself...)

Depends on d2, and d1, and who died n1.

[ConsonantM]

Zito--ur vote is on me, still.

Y?

Ur online, and ur reasoning 4 voting me was basically an accusation of lurking...

[ConsonantM]

You're defending Kise for some reason (maybe since he can't/won't do it himself?)

eh, call me a sucker. Kise's play reminds me of my play as a cop in many ways back in the day. i believe the claim.

so tell me your opinion on points 7 and 8?

I'm lazy. Requote 'em, please.

Last question: You've done a bunch of analysis, why no vote?

Check the vote count, buddy.

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 4 (inHimshallibe, Xylthixlm, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent)
Xylthixlm: 3 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)
Lamont_Cranston: 1 (Kise)

inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)
BloodCovenent: 1 (cateraction)
ConsonantM: 1 (Papa Zito)

Not Voting: 2 (Phoebus, Lowell)

i still stand by that vote. it wasn't random.

[ConsonantM]

Possible asking to be bussed?

Neway, logging off 4 the night. 'Til tomorrow it is.

[ConsonantM]

7. Attempting to frame Lamont for your soft-claim.

Eh, I'll look into it.

8. Misquoting Lamont in your claim defense (post 93) to add "role".

Again, I'll check on that little fact.

Then an explanation would be great.

i gave some already, but the rest would out my main. :/

My personal experience disagrees with this post. I think Kise is who he says he is. Lynch all Liars has never worked out well 4 me in the past. I can see Kise's perspective, and i think that the scum are pushing this wagon.

If Kise is scum, he's getting bussed hard--i'd be surprised if he isn't. Those he's asking to vote 4 him might b potential partners.

Great Content...

Now, this might be a scum tell to most, but I've never seen a pro-scum player vote themselves out of frustration. I've seen it dozens of times from pro-town players, though. Ask Papa--he's seen a cop do it.

Consonant M: I was not rolefishing, I was trying to wade through what the hell Kise was doing with his soft claim and then back peddaling.

I'll bring the quotes up to disprove this a little later on.

---

End p. 9.

[ConsonantM]

There is definitely scum in this list:

Kise
ConsoM
Sam
Lazarus

Cater

i smell setting up mislynches.

You?

That said, tho, i do agree on at least 1 of ur choices.

3. Kise - A ladies' man.

Lol.

Wow.

That's the scummiest list I've ever seen. He's not even pretending to scumhunt.

I hope there's nobody who still thinks he might be town after that post.

He's giving opinions. He's not stating who's suspicious due to them, but he's got it half right. i find no tru issues with it.

---
Speculation: Kise isn't doing real scum hunting, bcause he knows his role can catch scum without effort. It's "follow the cop", in a strange way--he's following his role. It's fairly common on EM (yes, i play EM. This alt came from there.), and i wouldn't b surprised if that is the case, here. Yes, here's not EM. But it's a psychological thing, imo, and i think it still applies.
---
Your request shall be fulfilled.

Kise is, in many ways, rather scummy.
If he is scum, his partners probably don't want to defend him, which would only make them look worse, bcause Kise is ASKING 2 b lynched, and them defending him would be a futile effort.

So, they bus.
They go hard after their comrade, thinking it will make them look good. "I got scum lynched day one! Look at me, the pro-town person! I can't be scum!" That kind of thing.

And if Kise is scum, he might WANT that to happen. Wanting townies to look bad after defending him (possibly leaving them open to be lynched), and wanting scum to look good by attacking him (hence, "Vote me, Zito", in the scenario where Kise is scum).

[ConsonantM]

...

i wouldnt b playing (at least not as well as i do) if it werent for EM. Kise was not a good choice of a lynch.

Because of yesterday. If you don't like it, lynch me. I really don't give a fuck.

Gut says: This is incredibly, incredibly scummy, and could be caught scum.

Logic says: It could be interpreted either way, but is leaning towards scum.

Sam's town. Deal with it.

Papa Zito - Town 1-Shot Vigilante - Killed Night One

An interesting kill choice. Papa had suspicions from several players. Could be a vig shot, but I doubt it.

BloodCovenent - Town Vanilla - Killed Night One

This was Papa's doing, I'm fairly certain.

(CNN) -- The sirens blare as a squad car leads a mournful procession. The New York Police Department is burying another one of its own, this time in the person of Papa Zito, a former officer found dead this morning

with his old service pistol in his hands

. Its obvious he was operating outside the law, but that doesn't stop the department from giving him a dignified sendoff.

Papa Zito was not the only casualty of the increasingly violent crime wave. At Laguardia they're loading the casket of BloodCovenent onto a plane bound for Kansas City, where his remains will be returned to his grieving family for interment on the farm he left behind to make a life for himself here in New York. A life tragically cut short late last night by

anonymous gunfire

.

In possibly unrelated news

Bolded seems to indicate the kills being related. Underlined shows the connection between the two. You hit town, Papa, sure, but you did us the favor of getting rid of someone who I felt was scummy.

Lamont_Cranston - Town Vanilla - Killed Night One

Probably scum, possibly sk, doubtfully vig.

Kise

: 8 (inHimshallibe,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13,

Kise,

lazarusmoth, xRECKONERx)

Bolded now-confirmed town. I strongly suspect that the scum were on the wagon, so look in here.

---

Also, do note that the maximum number of mafia is four, due to ten alive and any more would've already ended the game.

This seems to indicate a smaller scum team to me, two to three would be my guess. Possible serial killer as well.

[ConsonantM]

Also,

Vote: inHim,
FoS: Cateraction, Reck

.

Cat has been scummy, as has Reck. InHim has been scummy as well. I'll go into details if necessary. Cat I wouldn't focus on at the moment, due to the number of possible scum in the game.

[ConsonantM]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#1697878
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#1698382
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1699130
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 25#1699525
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1700183
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#1701009

And the lynch scene,
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 00#1701800

Unless I missed one, those are all the vote counts. It gives a rough idea. Let's look at who was on the bandwagon, when.

[ConsonantM]

Kise

: 3 (

Papa Zito, Lamont_Cranston

, xRECKONERx)

Lamont_Cranston

: 2 (

BloodCovenent, Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn)

Papa Zito

: 2 (Xylthixlm, inHimshallibe)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)

Not Voting: 4 (Phoebus, lazarusmoth, cateraction, Lowell)

Lamont_Cranston

: 3 (

BloodCovenent, Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Kise

: 2 (

Papa Zito

, xRECKONERx)
Xylthixlm: 2 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn)

Papa Zito

: 1 (inHimshallibe)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)
sam.samhorn: 1 (

Lamont_Cranston

)

Not Voting: 2 (Phoebus, cateraction, Lowell)

Kise

: 6 (

Papa Zito

, xRECKONERx, inHimshallibe, Xylthixlm,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn)

Lamont_Cranston

: 1 (

Kise

)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)

Not Voting: 3 (Phoebus, cateraction, Lowell)

Kise

: 4 (inHimshallibe, Xylthixlm,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

)
Xylthixlm: 3 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)

Lamont_Cranston

: 1 (

Kise

)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)
ConsonantM: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (Phoebus, Lowell)

Kise

: 6 (inHimshallibe,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13,

Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)
BloodCovenent[/color]: 1 (cateraction)

Not Voting: 4 (Lowell, Kise,

Papa Zito

, Xylthixlm)

Kise

: 6 (inHimshallibe,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13,

Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)
BloodCovenent[/color]: 1 (cateraction)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 3 (Rhinox(Lowell),

Kise

, Xylthixlm)

And the lynch scene,

Kise

: 8 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston,

BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13, Kise[/color], lazarusmoth, xRECKONERx)
Xylthixlm: 1 (sam.samhorn)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (Rhinox, Xylthixlm)

---
I need to see this posted b4 i can actually make sense of it. Helps to see it in post format and not Quick Reply format.

[ConsonantM]

Reposting with broken color tags fixed.

Kise

: 3 (

Papa Zito, Lamont_Cranston

, xRECKONERx)

Lamont_Cranston

: 2 (

BloodCovenent, Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn)

Papa Zito

: 2 (Xylthixlm, inHimshallibe)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)

Not Voting: 4 (Phoebus, lazarusmoth, cateraction, Lowell)

Lamont_Cranston

: 3 (

BloodCovenent, Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Kise

: 2 (

Papa Zito

, xRECKONERx)
Xylthixlm: 2 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn)

Papa Zito

: 1 (inHimshallibe)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)
sam.samhorn: 1 (

Lamont_Cranston

)

Not Voting: 2 (Phoebus, cateraction, Lowell)

Kise

: 6 (

Papa Zito

, xRECKONERx, inHimshallibe, Xylthixlm,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn)

Lamont_Cranston

: 1 (

Kise

)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)

Not Voting: 3 (Phoebus, cateraction, Lowell)

Kise

: 4 (inHimshallibe, Xylthixlm,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

)
Xylthixlm: 3 (DizzyIzzyB13, sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)

Lamont_Cranston

: 1 (

Kise

)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)
ConsonantM: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (Phoebus, Lowell)

Kise

: 6 (inHimshallibe,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13,

Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

Not Voting: 4 (Lowell, Kise,

Papa Zito

, Xylthixlm)

Kise

: 6 (inHimshallibe,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13,

Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (sam.samhorn, xRECKONERx)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx: 1 (lazarusmoth)
BloodCovenent[/color]: 1 (cateraction)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 3 (Rhinox(Lowell),

Kise

, Xylthixlm)

And the lynch scene,

Kise

: 8 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston,

BloodCovenent

, Phoebus, DizzyIzzyB13,

Kise

, lazarusmoth, xRECKONERx)
Xylthixlm: 1 (sam.samhorn)
inHimshallibe: 1 (ConsonantM)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (Rhinox, Xylthixlm)

---
I need to see this posted b4 i can actually make sense of it. Helps to see it in post format and not Quick Reply format.

[ConsonantM]

This,

[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1701795]And this,[url]

Seem to conflict with the great Xyl suspicion/vote held for most of the day. Will need further looking into.

[ConsonantM]

...My luck with tags sucks. <_<

This,

And this,

Seem to conflict with the great Xyl suspicion/vote held for most of the day. Will need further looking into.

[ConsonantM]

i am not positive i am enjoying the bandwagon on inHim. Post of more content l8ter 2nite, if i am lucky.

[ConsonantM]

sam.samhorn
is having a birthday!

Happy B-day, sam.

While I do not fully endorse this suspect, the logic in this post was very solid.

Reck expresses a willingness to bandwagon,

Cat posts a solid case, here,

But I REALLY dislike Reck's bandwagoning here.

Brilliant Content[/sarcasm].

[ConsonantM]

Blasted internet. Well, I'm now back, alive and well, for 2 hours.

[ConsonantM]

Cat's post here is my opinion.

This is a very scummy playstyle, and needs to be looked into more closely in order to see if his claim of it being his normal (read: town) playstyle is correct.

He likes the logic used against Izzy, but doesn't endorse pursuing Izzy as a suspect?

I am much in favor of pursuing inHim and you, Reck, but I saw the logic in there as solid. I fail to see the problem in that, really. Can't you recognize good logic, yet disagree with the conclusion (such as, Izzy is scum)?

Is there a measurable opinion in here somewhere?

So shoot me; I was a bit short on time when I wrote that post.

I mean, clearly you dislike how Reck is playing today

He is my top suspect after inHim.

but you express it kinda passive-aggressively.

So? It's not like it's a scumtell.

No vote

Better used on inHim.

no questions

I point out things about/directed at him instead of questions. He should respond to them (and might I add, I don't think he always does).

what are your intentions here

In this game, there are likely at least two scum. I think inHim is one, and Reck another. They've both done very scummy things (Want a PBPA?) that warrant my suspicion.

because it kinda sounds like you're saying "Reck is scummy" and then moving on without doing anything about it.

I'm not a double voter. I only have one vote to use between inHim and Reck.

THIS changes things.

I'll look into Izzy's posts to see if this seems to be the action he'd take as a one-shot vig.

[ConsonantM]

I don't like to rehash old cases on people if it's already been said.

This. I see it as rather pro-town to restate the case a thousand times, as long as it gets the point across. It allows people to see what you're thinking.

To not do so makes it harder for people to understand you, and easier to misinterpret points. It can also be used as a scum shield. "Oh, no, that's not what I meant! I meant X from post Y, not Z!"

That kind of thing.

If what someone says makes sense logically, I'll voice my agreement.

And this. While I can understand not elaborating on what others have said if you're short on time,
To never do so is scummy, for you're just using anothers' reasoning as your own. (And possible buddying as well.)

[ConsonantM]

vote: Reckoner

Him or lazarusmoth, imo.

1: Reeks of bussing,
2: Reeks of setting up (mis)lynches.

Who's to say there are only two scum, anyway?

Definite possibility of a scumslip. Thanks for the info about only two scum if you flip scum, Reck. (I've done this all the time on Epicmafia--in no-role-reveal setups, when everyone thinks one more scum is dead than really is, I ALWAYS mess up and say that there's another scum and who it is. <_<)

---

inHim's stalling scum.

What phrase is that, from DGB?

Isn't it something like
"It takes seconds to paraphrase a role PM, a lifetime to make a good fakeclaim."

You get the idea.

[ConsonantM]

There's a lot of different options available.

Needless to say, though, whoever said that, if scum, will have told us only two scum in their faction.

[ConsonantM]

We don't know that Zito shot anyone, period.

It is very probable, given the flavor I pointed out.

[ConsonantM]

inHim-->Undevoted Scum Who's asking to be lynched.
Reck-->Also scum, who will be tomorrow.

[ConsonantM]

Unvote,
Vote Reck

.

I believe the claim for now.

[ConsonantM]

I'm forming crazy speculation in my head about the setup right now. I'm not good at balance, but I've seen what another person suggested for a game of mafia months ago, and everyone who reviewed it (this was on another site, obviously) thought it looked balanced. It was a nine-player game idea, but the claims thusfar in this game are disturbingly similar to what I remember from that game. (It also fits with my two scum theory, what the setup I remember was)

Still, for the moment,

I support Reck's lynch (who should claim),
And while I do find inHim suspicious, he's not the best choice for a lynch.

[ConsonantM]

Hmm...I think I'd like to hold out on posting it until after Reck claims. Might help him as scum determine his fakeclaim.

[ConsonantM]

Unvote

.

That claim...fits with my theory, actually.

(Note to players: I am not good with balance, like to speculate a lot, and these combine the two for wild speculation. However, said speculation might give the scum ideas what to claim if I post it--who here thinks that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages?)

[ConsonantM]

Remember:

This is an OGML game.
who is known 4 making pairs, if u kno what I mean.

[ConsonantM]

That did have pairs, Xyl.

2 Martyrs.
4 Partially NK-immune townies (that's just a larger pair).

Off the top of my head.

I can dig up research on others if need be.

[ConsonantM]

First result i can find:

Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town

Two townies (albeit one with a latent ability),

Two masons (one a recruiter, one a recruitee),

Two Enablers.

Mafia 87 - New Age Mafia

Two Gravediggers,
Two Trackers.

Medieval Mafia--
4 townies,
Two Martyrs.

(My mistake--i thought there was four nk-immune; i can only see three. )

i'll go on if needed.

[ConsonantM]

Oh, and two roleblockers,
three one-shot vigs,

Would fit with the two-three pairings u can see in those games.

[ConsonantM]

Let's not 4get Marathon games as well. It had two cops, and two revealed 'nillas in the first post.

[ConsonantM]

It further shows evidence that OGML has had rather some # of pairs in games.

[ConsonantM]

:/

[ConsonantM]

i've had a busy day. i am dead-tired from it, so won't post nething of real content today.

[ConsonantM]

Right, so this is why i am currently believing the claims.
(WARNING:
Terrible logic, or worse, the lack there of, might follow in this post!)

The setup which i can remember from my memory:

2 serial killers,
2 mafia,
3 one-shot vigs,

And two of another role which i forget.

Total: Nine players.

It was meant to be a face-paced, bloody game, and i gave it my seal of approval.

---

What we have this game:

One confirmed one-shot vig, another claimed one-shot vig, possibly a third one-shot vig, and/or a serial killer.

A

Two roleblocker claims. An odd-night cop. Two confirmed vanilla townies.

There were three bodies in the pre-game (like what happened with our night-kills),
And another dragged off to custody (like a lynch).

My initial guess was either,

2 Mafia A,
2 Mafia B,
and a Serial Killer,
or

2 mafia,
2 serial killers.

Add to that possibly a vig or two, who didn't shoot in the pre-game because there was not a threat to the town at the time.

i had guessed a lot of killing power from the second the flavor was revealed.

So, my thoughts:

Our setup looks something like this:

2 Mafia A,
2 Mafia B,
0-1 Serial Killer,
2-3 1-shot vigs,
0-2 roleblockers,
1-2 cops,
2-5 vanilla townies.

OR

2 mafia,
1-2 serial killers.
2-3 1-shot vigs,
0-2 roleblockers,
1-2 cops,
2-5 vanilla townies.

Somewhere within those boundaries.

We know there are at least two vanilla townies, and at least one one-shot vig, as well as a cop, who had every-other night powers.

We have a claimed one-shot vig,
And

a

two claimed roleblocker(s), one who claimed to have blocked Zito's kill.

If Reck were to flip scum (he was the main one representing two mafia, wasn't he?), it would highly suggest only two scum, but that wouldn't be strong enough by itself, implying at least a serial killer in the game.

With the possibility of another roleblocker out there, i definitely think that we had some either attempted and failed kills, or some multideaths.

(Second roleblocker claim makes this theory seem even more likely,actually.)

---

What i make from this:

Depending on the lynch today, and the outcome of the night, I think we can narrow down the setup to what it is at its core, and that if we do that, we'll be able to guess what we're up against. It will help determine the truthfullness of the claims we see in those days as well.

[ConsonantM]

For reasons such as this

If there are only 3 scum, sam may go back on the list.

An extremely scummy comment which makes no sense to me (Why would Sam go on the list with LESS scum? Wouldn't he get on the list only with MORE scum in the game?),

I agree with Cateraction.

I don't like inHim at all.
Nor do I like Reck at all.

However, their claims make sense, and at the moment, i do not support their lynches.

Izzy's claim i also believe 4 the moment,
and i do not think Cat is scum,
nor Sam,
So...

My choices for a lynch:

lazarusmoth (active lurking, bandwagonning),
Rhinox (hasn't contributed much, other than the case against Izzy),
Xylthixlm (There are many at least attempted cases against Xyl. i definitely need to look into them a bit more.),
and Phoebus (general lack of content, possibly active lurking. Phoe did declare himself V/LA a while ago, though).

I'll do a bit of an iso-read to see which of them i think warrants my vote.

[ConsonantM]

Vote: Laz.

Bit preoccupied, but Laz's lack of content from my memory is what makes this my vote.

[ConsonantM]

Rhinox - Brooklyn Mafia Encryptor - Killed Night Two

1: Mafia Encryptor?

That's a role i've never seen b4. Could some1 save me the trouble of finding the role on the wiki and just tell me?

2: Brooklyn is a specific type of mafia--this HIGHLY suggests two mafia, especially since, well, he was shot during the night.

Standard procedure at the begining of a day when you've claimed:
Out who you targeted.
You have not done so. <_<

The fact that Rhinox came up Brooklyn Mafia rather than just plain Mafia strongly suggests that there are two mafias.

...i h8 it when ppl beat me to the draw.

Anyone know what an Encryptor is?

Not sure. If i had to guess from my knowledge, encryptors have 2 do with communication. Be it tapping into phone lines or protecting scum communications; something like that. i recall talk about a role like that in Mafia Discussion a while back.
If that's not it...no idea.

xRECKONERx, who did you block last night?

Stop beating me to my points!

We know Rhinox was scum, and presumably from the group that killed inHim. He was on inHim's list. It seems likely his scumbuddy was also on the list.

Definitely leaning towards Laz or Phoe--
You seem fairly pro-town overall (even if there are some scummy comments, that doesn't nullify this fact),
I know i am not...
Leaving Laz and Phoe.

I'd think, due to the fact that Xyl was close to getting lynched, next on the list would be Laz, who might've been a prime suspect l8ter on.

Vote: Laz.

inHim's coming up scum shows that Kise was blocked.

...Kise died d1. You mean Zito, right?

There were three kills night 1, so for Dizzy to be scum there would need to be three scumteams (two mafias + SK?) or an unclaimed vig.

Agreed, if i understood correctly. Dizzy's doubtfully scum.

[ConsonantM]

Also, in light of the situation, I'd like to point out that I'm still strong on my feelings regarding Xylth.

Then y didn't u roleblock him? :/

Need to read over it before drawing any conclusions.

End of day vote counts, not so valuable.
We should look at all vote counts 4 better info if u want to make much of it, not just the end of day ones.

[ConsonantM]

In order, my preference would be
Laz,
Phoe,
Xyl.
i'll see if i can build cases against each of them shortly.

[ConsonantM]

Xyl, a few questions that i'd like answered--they involve points in my case against u. (It's slooooow work...it'll be a while. :/)

1: U state u were only waiting on ur vote 2 be on Kise due 2 wanting Rhinox's thoughts, correct?
Rhinox flipped scum; mind explaining Y it was only Rhinox u were waiting 4 when others weren't truly around at the time?

2: It's well-known that u apparently dont buss as mafia. Yet every1 u've targeted is either now-proven town or likely town.
Can u explain how that doesn't at least partially point 2 u being scum?

[ConsonantM]

Thanks for the answer, Xyl.

Mod: Current deadline?

It's not given in the vote count...

[ConsonantM]

God *censored* that rain.

Until the rain here lets up,

V/LA

due to internet failure.

Don't worry. This is Western Washington. It can oh, only go on for weeks...
(More seriously, it's pouring. This will not last long. A day or two, most.)

[ConsonantM]

Five days?
Oh, boy...
(I'll have to stop slacking and build those cases.)

[ConsonantM]

Another game, sadly, has been occupying my time. (It shouldn't be, considering how it doesn't require daily posts; this game does. But, well, it has. :/) Catching up now.

[ConsonantM]

Where's Laz? (My vote is on Laz.)
Working on my case, but it helps if the player in question doesn't get replaced...so that they can answer questions of mine better than a replacement can.

[ConsonantM]

Statements like this REEK of scum.

---
I have a gut read on Sam as town. (i hate using gut, but it's something which has grown on me over time)

i have a slight scum read on Phoe, but not as much as Laz.

[ConsonantM]

Yea...i 4got to mention that, didnt i?

[ConsonantM]

We need to have a set of questions everyone should answer in order to 1) gain information after the next night kill, and 2) help me determine who to block next.

How about

Who do you suspect?
Who do you think is town?
and
Where were you on the night of the 23rd?

---

On to some thoughts:
What's worrying me is that both of one Mafia faction flipped goon, while one of the flips from the other was a power role.
It has gotten me thinking that, in theory, we might have six total scum, a power role on each mafia side and 2 mafia goons each. i think i am getting a bit paranoid, tho.

i also am actually disappointed that the block was successful--i mean, if the kill got through, it would narrow down our suspect pool by 1 player, and there's the chance that sam would've shot the other Mafia, 4 an easy town win.
---
4 the moment, tho, i will be reanalyzing the wagons thusfar in the game 2 see what i can make of them.

[ConsonantM]

Bronx will b in purple.
Brooklyn will b in red.
Town in green.
Blue will b very likely town.

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Lamont_Cranston: 2 (BloodCovenent,

xRECKONERx

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Papa Zito

: 2 (Xylthixlm,

inHimshallibe

)
ConsonantM: 1 (

Lamont_Cranston

)

Kise: 1 (Papa Zito

)
Phoebus: 1 (

Kise

)

Not Voting: 5 (ConsonantM,

Phoebus

, lazarusmoth, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 3 (Papa Zito, Lamont_Cranston,

xRECKONERx

)

Lamont_Cranston: 2 (BloodCovenent, Kise)

Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Papa Zito:

2 (Xylthixlm,

inHimshallibe

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

Not Voting: 4 (

Phoebus

, lazarusmoth, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Lamont_Cranston: 3 (BloodCovenent, Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Kise: 2 (Papa Zito

,

xRECKONERx

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Papa Zito: 1 (inHimshallibe

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)
xRECKONERx[/color]: 1 (lazarusmoth)
sam.samhorn[/color]: 1 (

Lamont_Cranston

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 6 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

,

Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

sam.samhorn

,

xRECKONERx

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (lazarusmoth)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

Not Voting: 4 (

Lowell

,

Kise, Papa Zito

, Xylthixlm)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 6 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent[/color],

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

,

Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

sam.samhorn

,

xRECKONERx

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (lazarusmoth)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 3 (

Rhinox

,

Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Kise: 8 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

,

Kise

, lazarusmoth,

xRECKONERx

)
Xylthixlm: 1 (

sam.samhorn

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

lazarusmoth: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

Bolded may be important, considering Zito's fate.
Neway, that's day 1.

[ConsonantM]

What i find concerning is that both of the blus, whose claims i say make it likely that they're town, have both consistently voted right around the same point in a bandwagon as the purples do.

They also never voted 4 each other. Onto do the d2 vote counts.

[ConsonantM]

Same colorings.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 5 (

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM, lazarusmoth, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

DizzyIzzyB13

: 1 (

Rhinox

)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)

Not Voting: 3 (Xylthixlm,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Worrisome is how Reck has been on both bandwagons.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 5 (

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM, lazarusmoth, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

xRECKONERx

: 3 (

inHimshallibe

,

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Rhinox and Xyl vote together again (Though Xyl said he would've voted 4 Kise, they were the only two unvoted at the end of the day), and again, the blue and the purple end up being the only 2 unvoted.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 4 (

sam.samhorn

, lazarusmoth, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

xRECKONERx

: 3 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm, ConsonantM)

lazarusmoth: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Current Deadline: Saturday June 13th, 10 PM Eastern

Just a note--but the bolded is a very strong link to Laz being mafia. inHim was voting Laz, inHim dies. This might not be significant, tho, considering how i was voting Laz yesterday and didnt die.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 2 (lazarusmoth, cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)
Xylthixlm: 1 (

xRECKONERx

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM)

Again, alarming patterns. Xyl and a proven Red together a good portion of the time, blues constantly being paired with purples, and possible OMGUS-kills from Laz. This seems 2 me 2 indicate 6 scum instead of the 4 i had thought, if u put any meaning into it. However, that would be large 4 this size of a game, so i am far from thinking this 2 b the case.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 2 (lazarusmoth, cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

xRECKONERx

,

Phoebus

)
lazarusmoth: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)

Not Voting: 3 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM)

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

Xylthixlm: 3 (

xRECKONERx

,

Phoebus

,

iinHimshallibe

)

iinHimshallibe

: 2 (lazarusmoth, cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

Phoebus: 1 (sam.samhorn

)

Not Voting: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

, ConsonantM)

i am starting 2 see a pattern...

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

Xylthixlm: 4 (

xRECKONERx

,

Phoebus

,

inHimshallibe

, cateraction)

inHimshallibe

: 2 (lazarusmoth, Xylthixlm)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

Rhinox

)

Phoebus: 1 (sam.samhorn

)
lazarusmoth: 1 (ConsonantM)

Not Voting: 1 (

DizzyIzzyB13

)

And that's the end of day two. Lots of patterns that i can see w/o even posting this.

[ConsonantM]

Conclusion:
Reck's very likely not scum with Rhinox; that vote was consistent throughout day two, with the exception of the early Dizzy vote.
IF Reck is scum, he'd be scum with Phoe and Sam.
Same goes for Dizzy.
Altho i am leaning towards them both being town.

4 a 1-man scum team, i'd think either Laz or Xyl would be it, tho cat comes in third.
4 a 2-man scum team, i'd think it'd b both Laz and Xyl, actually.

If the latter is tru, for the last of the other mafia, it'd likely b one of the blues (most likely Reck, due to Izzy's one-shot vig claim), or Cateraction.

[ConsonantM]

Day three. No green, no red, but otherwise, coloring's the same.

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

lazarusmoth: 2 (ConsonantM,

xRECKONERx

)

DizzyIzzyB13

: 1 (cateraction)

Not Voting: 5 (Xylthixlm,

sam.samhorn, Phoebus

, lazarusmoth,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Conclusion:
Reck really likes voting for the leading bandwagon...

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

lazarusmoth: 3 (ConsonantM,

xRECKONERx

, Xylthixlm)

DizzyIzzyB13

: 1 (cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Phoebus: 1 (sam.samhorn

)

Not Voting: 5 (lazarusmoth,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Conclusion: If three scum per team, it would not surprise me if they were doing a double-decker bus. (Sam bussing Phoe, who is bussing Reck.)

It also points to Xyl not being partnered with Laz, as Xyl doesnt buss, via meta.

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

lazarusmoth: 2 (ConsonantM, Xylthixlm)

Phoebus: 2 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

sam.samhorn

: 1 (

xRECKONERx

)

Not Voting:

5

(lazarusmoth,

scotmany12

)

Conclusion: The mod isn't paying the closest amount of attention 2 the vote counts.
More seriously, tho, there is, again, definitely the possibility of a bussing circle.
Reck could be bussing Sam, bussing Phoe, who is voting 4 some1 not a member of their mafia.
Alternatively, Sam's bussing Phoe, who is bussing Cateraction, a possible third member.

This, again, relies on the three-scum theory, tho.

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Phoebus: 3 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction, lazarusmoth)

sam.samhorn

: 2 (

xRECKONERx

, Xylthixlm)
lazarusmoth: 1 (ConsonantM)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Not Voting: 1 (

scotmany12

)

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Phoebus: 4 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction, lazarusmoth,

xRECKONERx

)
lazarusmoth: 1 (ConsonantM)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Not Voting: 2 (

scotmany12

, Xylthixlm)

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Phoebus: 5 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction, lazarusmoth,

xRECKONERx

, Xylthixlm)
lazarusmoth: 1 (ConsonantM)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Not Voting: 1 (

scotmany12

)

Conclusion: Cateraction is either not a member of the Bronx mafia, or the Bronx mafia LOVES double-decker busses.

[ConsonantM]

Yes.

Lynch all Lurkers contains examples of this.

Neway,

-If two mafia r left on the Brooklyn team, then it's likely that Xyl or Laz are 1 of the 2, but not both.
-If the above is tru, then Cateraction is most likely the second member, based off of my conclusions.
-If only one, tho, it's still most likely Xyl or Laz.

-If two Brooklyn mafia r left, there's 1 Bronx mafia left, who is most likely going 2 b either Reck, or Cateraction.

From this, i can deduce that all four of them are very possible scum, but under the 1-scum left theory, it is most likely either Laz or Xyl.

[ConsonantM]

Neway...we can analyze this stuff l8r further. It's there in case i die.

Ne1 object 2 me hammering no-lynch?

[ConsonantM]

(This is a joke, btw)
No Lynch is scum. I have a 1-shot day-rolecop ability, and NL came up scum. We need to lynch NL.

[ConsonantM]

We dont kno if we have another cop, tho.

Massclaim, popcorn style, Laz first?

[ConsonantM]

i'll speed things up:
i am not the cop.

[ConsonantM]

(2) I was sitting on InHim/I was lurking
Response: I wasn't sitting. I had a vote on Inhim before he claimed and when Reck claimed townblocker as well, I posted that I will be taking a closer look at InHim's and reck's posts. But before I can do so, I lost my net access. Again, there was no sitting or active lurking involved on my end, and I'm sorry my inactivity gave out some confusing signals.

Closer look-->Cop breadcrumb. This supports Laz/Pyro-->Cop.

Doesn't vote for Xyl going into today, which goes against a standard cop play.

------
Not sure whether to buy the claim or not. Things would've been made easier if Reck announced his roleblock going into night (kinda giving us a clear if there's only one death). I am leaning towards him having blocked Xyl (was voting for Xyl most of the game, if I recall correctly), which points to Laz/Pyro being scum, but i am going to have to check.

For now, however, we have at least a 50/50, which is good. Possible scumslip from Xyl, involving

Yep, he's lying. You realize that you're completely screwed - even if you get me lynched, it will prove your lie and you'll be lynched tomorrow. Town wins.

This implies only one scum left (something only he could know), but i didnt think nething about it--we all were mostly thinking this, no?

There could still be another scum out there. I'd rather lynch Pyro first.

Yet THIS seems 2 appear 2 b the opposite, admitting that there could b two scum out there. i dont like inconsistencies.

I *really* dislike Cateraction's quick bandwagon.

Dang it, Xyl, Pyro/Laz, Cateraction. Y'd u have to all b so scummy this game? <_<

[ConsonantM]

Heh. It's late, i should've gone 2 bed hours ago, my main has dozens of games that i should catch up in, but this game currently holds my attention, as it is clear we're nearing the end.
i believe Xyl thusfar has been a bit more scummy than Laz/Pyro. Pyro is also a very easy mislynch (i'd know; i helped mislynch him in his first game. ), tho, so this might be an attempt at anti-bias. (Bcause he's so scummy as town, subconciously, i might b more cautious in my opinions of him, discarding scummy play.)

i will again be looking at the bandwagons that i posted earlier, observing where they were. i will then look at them in isolation.

My largest concerns:

-Xyl's scum, bing bussed by Cateraction. Cateraction is waiting 4 some1 2 vote 4 Pyro, thereby allowing a change in vote 4 a win.
-Cateraction and Pyromaniac r both scum. They voted together and r hoping 4 a mislynch right now 4 a win.

Those 2 keep me from voting either. Like i said earlier, a power role in 1 mafia faction, but not the other-->Concerning.

Dizzy/Scot is almost confirmed town.
i am town.

Cateraction, Xyl, and Pyro r all that is left. There r only a few possibilities:

1: All 3 r scum. Two r Brooklyn, 1 is Bronx. Lylo.
Pyro and Cateraction r Brooklyn, trying 2 get rid of the Bronx. This is due to Xyl's meta of never bussing partners, making a Pyro-Xyl pairing impossible.
From this, Cateraction can b eliminated as a possible member of the Bronx mafia. He still can b Brooklyn, tho.

2: Two r scum. 1 Brooklyn, 1 Bronx, making the Bronx Mafia faction (of 2 goons so far) larger.
We have a ml today. Xyl/Pyro die. If correct, then it will b down 2 the other 2, and which is decided upon as the last member of the other mafia faction. If wrong and the pro-town player of the 3 is lynched, then either the scum cross-shoot, or we r left in a Prisoner's Dilemma situation.

3: Two r scum. 2 Brooklyn. Despite having a power role, they have an extra member. Lylo, if tru, but this is extremely doubtful.

4: One is scum. A member of the Brooklyn mafia. We have a guaranteed win.

1 is my largest concern of all. Three is extremely doubtful, but the possibility exists.

------
Now, 2 examine the bandwagons, see which pairing is made most likely:

Vote count analysis here shows Xyl-Rhinox pairings that I mentioned earlier. It also shows a possible reason for Zito's death, Zito's vote on Laz.

inHimshallibe: 5 (sam.samhorn, ConsonantM, lazarusmoth, cateraction, xRECKONERx)

Laz and Cat voted together, here.

inHimshallibe: 5 (sam.samhorn, ConsonantM, lazarusmoth, cateraction, xRECKONERx)
xRECKONERx: 3 (inHimshallibe, Rhinox, Xylthixlm)

Again, the 2 vote 2gether, but so do Rhinox and Xyl.

lazarusmoth: 1 (inHimshallibe)

Again, inHim died that night.

Phoebus: 3 (sam.samhorn, cateraction, lazarusmoth)

Cateraction and Laz vote 2gether again.

There is one instance, however, where they break the pattern:

Xylthixlm: 4 (xRECKONERx, Phoebus, inHimshallibe, cateraction)
inHimshallibe: 2 (lazarusmoth, Xylthixlm)
xRECKONERx: 1 (Rhinox)

Xyl no longer is with Rhinox, and cateraction no longer with Laz.
Another inconsistency is the fact that Zito and inHim both had at least some suspicion on them yet were NK'd...and had votes on Laz.
Yet i was not.

However, given the evidence in front of me, if 2 alive r Brooklyn, Laz-Cat would definitely seem to fit the pattern.

On the other hand, tho, Cateraction has never received any serious attention from Xyl, 2 my knowledge, which means that Xyl could b partners with Cateraction.

------
To sum it up,

-My current belief is in a Laz/Pyro-Cateraction scum team. About 40% on this.
-If wrong, then the next most probable scenario is Xyl is a lone scum member. About 30% on this.
-At third, is a Cateraction-Xyl possible scum team, 20% on this.
-At a last fourth is the least likely, as this would b suicidal: Laz/Pyro is the last scum, with no scum partner. Instant-town-win, very doubtful. Only 10% on this.

-And due to the 20% chance of the third, I will not b voting 4 Pyro, despite Pyro bing my top suspect.

[ConsonantM]

Re-read gems:

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

Xylthixlm: 4 (xRECKONERx, Phoebus, inHimshallibe, cateraction)

Xyl, u were 2 votes from a lynch. Y not mention having a strong distaste 4 bing lynched as town back then?
U mention it now, at L-1, but not at L-2...

------

Ah, *censored*. Deadline's tomorrow. Today, by most time.

Something seriously rubs me the wrong way about Xyl's posts, but I dont want 2 ignore the Pyro-Cat interaction.

Here goes everything...

Vote: Pyromaniac

.

Now, either Sam gets to hammer Pyro or Xyl,
Or Cateraction switches votes 2 Pyro.

[ConsonantM]

I could say the same to you. I had been expecting the game to be over. With a third Bronx, u'd think that the Brooklyn also had 3, making u and Cateraction scum, 'specially with Cateraction's switch in choices of bandwagons.

cateraction, you had exactly zero interaction with Rhinox days one and two. In fact, your only mention of him all game was one post at the beginning of day 3. Why?

i will have 2 reread and see ur interaction with Rhinox/Lowell 4 comparison 2 this statement.

I need a closer look at ConsonantM.

Funny, how u've practically been ignoring me all game, yet suddenly have this suspicion of me. This is exactly the attitude i expect from the last scum--
Leave some1 who has received very little attention the whole game alive...
And then out of the blu, push a hard case against them.

---

Step 1:

Re-do the votecount analysis, updated with alignments.

Step 2: Look at Rhinox's interactions.

Step 3: Look at Cateraction's/Xyl's interactions with Rhinox.

Step 4: Look at both players' overall pictures throughout the game, to see possible scumslips/overall voice the entire game.

Step 5: Reach conclusions from it.

[ConsonantM]

Green-->Confirmed Town.
Red-->Brooklyn.
Purple-->Bronx.

Same as b4.

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Lamont_Cranston: 2 (BloodCovenent, xRECKONERx)

Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Papa Zito

: 2 (Xylthixlm,

inHimshallibe

)
ConsonantM: 1 (

Lamont_Cranston

)

Kise: 1 (Papa Zito)

Phoebus

: 1 (

Kise

)

Not Voting: 5 (ConsonantM,

Phoebus, lazarusmoth

, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 3 (Papa Zito, Lamont_Cranston, xRECKONERx)

Lamont_Cranston: 2 (BloodCovenent, Kise)

Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Papa Zito

: 2 (Xylthixlm,

inHimshallibe

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

Not Voting: 4 (

Phoebus, lazarusmoth

, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Lamont_Cranston: 3 (BloodCovenent, Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Kise: 2 (Papa Zito, xRECKONERx)

Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Papa Zito: 1 (inHimshallibe)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

lazarusmoth

)

sam.samhorn

: 1 (Lamont_Cranston[/color])

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 6 (Papa Zito, xRECKONERx, inHimshallibe

, Xylthixlm,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

)

Lamont_Cranston: 1 (Kise)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

lazarusmoth

)

Not Voting: 3 (

Phoebus

, cateraction,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 4 (inHimshallibe

, Xylthixlm,

Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

)
Xylthixlm: 3 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

,

xRECKONERx

)

Lamont_Cranston: 1 (Kise)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

lazarusmoth

)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)
ConsonantM: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

Lowell

)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 6 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13, Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

sam.samhorn

,

xRECKONERx

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

lazarusmoth

)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

Not Voting: 4 (

Lowell

,

Kise, Papa Zito

, Xylthixlm)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 6 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13, Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

sam.samhorn

,

xRECKONERx

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

lazarusmoth

)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 3 (

Lowell

,

Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 6 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13, Kise

)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

sam.samhorn

,

xRECKONERx

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

lazarusmoth

)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 3 (

Rhinox

,

Kise

, Xylthixlm)

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 8 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent[/color],

Phoebus

, DizzyIzzyB13, Kise[/color],

lazarusmoth

, xRECKONERx[/color])
Xylthixlm: 1 (

sam.samhorn

)
inHimshallibe[/color]: 1 (ConsonantM)
BloodCovenen[/color]t: 1 (cateraction)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (Papa Zito[/color])

Not Voting: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

The results of that night were:

Papa Zito - Town 1-Shot Vigilante - Killed Night One
BloodCovenent - Town Vanilla - Killed Night One
Lamont_Cranston - Town Vanilla - Killed Night One

Now, we know that Reck blocked Zito, so Zito didn't shoot. We also know that Dizzy shot Lamont.

Leaving BC and Papa Zito as the scum kills. I believe that Zito was killed by the Bronx Mafia--he was going fairly decently hard against many of their members, if I recall correctly. He also was voting Laz at the end of the day, and was--while slightly scummy--rather pro-town in the eyes of most. Perfect kill for them.

Leaving the Brooklyn Mafia having shot BC--Why?

There had to be a reason; I'll have to look into BC's posts, now, as well.

[ConsonantM]

Lamont_Cranston: 3 (BloodCovenent, Kise, Xylthixlm)

Kise: 6 (Papa Zito, xRECKONERx, inHimshallibe, Xylthixlm, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent)

Interesting. Xyl was on both main bandwagons day one. So was BC, tho.

BloodCovenent: 1 (cateraction)

This would seem to indicate that Cateraction wouldnt kill BC--y kill the person ur voting 4? Doesnt make much tactical sense; scum want 2 vote 4 scummy pro-town players. If Cateraction thought BC was scummy, then BC would b some1 2 keep alive in order 2 lynch them.

Vote Count: 8 to lynch

Kise: 8 (inHimshallibe, Lamont_Cranston, BloodCovenent

,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13, Kise

,

lazarusmoth

,

xRECKONERx

)
Xylthixlm: 1 (

sam.samhorn

)

inHimshallibe

: 1 (ConsonantM)

BloodCovenent

: 1 (cateraction)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (

Papa Zito

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

Neway, I've said it b4--

The results of this vote count imply that Zito was shot by the Bronx. Xyl and Rhinox (who is now proven Brooklyn) were both not voting, and Xyl said it was 2 allow Rhinox 2 catch up.

[ConsonantM]

No, i see a link as well with Cater-Kise.

Hmm, this alone could counter the fact that Cateraction was voting BC. Once 1 target flips town, generally, a person will go after their second suspect--BC's second was Cat.
Add 2 that, Cat was also voting 4 BC.

I think it would be a safe bet to put pressure on Cater and Reck.

Here is why i would vote you as well.
1. Post 88, you didn't like the claim, yet you wouldn't vote. you "weren't ready to vote."
2. Post 97 - you appeared to be more worried about the speed of the Band Wagon (which is true, i was as well), rather than the actual scummy post.
3.107 - Black marked me (?) for pushing a claim. which in return almost negated his "plain role," claim. i think pushing hard was the right move.
4. 212 - your gut says lynch him, but you don't want to vote for him. You say that if he is scum, I have to be scum, howso? I think i asked already, and you never responded.
5. post 250 - you said that you've seen two townies play like this before. I'm presuming one was your first game, and the other was Newbie 734, Exalt was a crybaby at that point in the game. not to mention you've only played a small handful of games. i don't think you have enough experience to claim this statement on post 250.
6. Post 253 - "I'd rather leave a crappy town alive than scum." What the heck does this mean?
[cut]

wait.... what?

Hmm...

Very interesting.

But there is a counter:

If [Kise] turns up town, i will be surprised, and then i would look into Lamont

and Xyl

, but i don't think he will.

BC was pushing a Kise-Cat pair, stating his willingness to lynch Cat.
However, BC was also wishing 2 look at Xyl/Lamount if Kise flipped town.
Kise did.

---

For reference, I am also looking at Zito. Just in case he's the Brooklyn kill.
This post, 4 example, contains a lot of content from Zito addressing Xyl.

@Xylthixlm: Do you have a master list of all these great scum-tells somewhere? Because at the moment it seems like you pull them out of your ass to suit your purposes. Also, "I wanted to kill Lamont" - why?
@cateraction: If you're not ready to vote, can you give your opinion on something?

Is also something interesting.

This is what makes me think he's the Bronx kill, tho.

[ConsonantM]

'Sides Cateraction's, Xyl's, and Rhinox's D1 posts (which i will analyze l8r), i think i've gotten all i can from D1.

Same Color Coding as b4.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 5 (

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM,

lazarusmoth

, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

DizzyIzzyB13

: 1 (

Rhinox

)

xRECKONERx: 1 (inHimshallibe)

Not Voting: 3 (Xylthixlm,

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 5 (

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM,

lazarusmoth

, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

xRECKONERx: 2 (inHimshallibe

,

Rhinox

)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (Xylthixlm)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 5 (

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM,

lazarusmoth

, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

xRECKONERx: 3 (inHimshallibe,

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Interesting 2 note is how--4 the second time in the game--Xyl and Rhinox r voting together.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe:

4 (

sam.samhorn, lazarusmoth

, cateraction,

xRECKONERx

)

xRECKONERx

: 3 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm, ConsonantM)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 2 (

lazarusmoth

, cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)
Xylthixlm: 1 (

xRECKONERx

)

Not Voting: 2 (

Phoebus

,

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM)

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

inHimshallibe

: 2 (

lazarusmoth

, cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)
Xylthixlm: 2 (

xRECKONERx

,

Phoebus

)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (

inHimshallibe

)

Not Voting: 3 (

DizzyIzzyB13

,

sam.samhorn

, ConsonantM)

The pattern i am seeing, here, is that Cateraction is not voting with Rhinox, while Xyl is.

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

Xylthixlm: 3 (

xRECKONERx

,

Phoebus

,

inHimshallibe

)

inHimshallibe

: 2 (

lazarusmoth

, cateraction)

xRECKONERx:

2 (

Rhinox

, Xylthixlm)

Phoebus: 1 (sam.samhorn)

Not Voting: 2 (

DizzyIzzyB13

, ConsonantM)

Vote Count: 6 to lynch

Xylthixlm: 4 (

xRECKONERx

,

Phoebus

,

inHimshallibe

, cateraction)

inHimshallibe

: 2 (

lazarusmoth

, Xylthixlm)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

Rhinox

)

Phoebus: 1 (sam.samhorn)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (ConsonantM)

Not Voting: 1 (

DizzyIzzyB13

)

And the results of the night?

inHimshallibe - Town Roleblocker - Killed Night Two

Rhinox - Brooklyn Mafia Encryptor - Killed Night Two

Something caused the Brooklyn mafia to kill Reck, and the Bronx killed Rhinox. Time 2 look at Reck+Rhinox.

[ConsonantM]

*In the last line of the above post, replace all "Reck" with "inHim".

[ConsonantM]

Xylthixlm: 3 (xRECKONERx, Phoebus,

inHimshallibe

)

Interesting.

inHimshallibe: 2 (lazarusmoth, Xylthixlm)

Possible OMGUS from Xyl. This is a very interesting pattern. 'Twill be worth looking into.

[ConsonantM]

Xyl interaction here.

Pretty sure Xyl is scum. Phoebus looking bad, too.

Cater is a GG.

[cut]
unvote
vote: Xylthixlm

Note the bolded. Would Cateraction really kill InHim after that?
Also, note the vote on Xyl.

In the above case, I still like Xyl as the first lynch.

Continues the Xyl suspicion here,

unvote
vote: lazarusmoth

I don't think the xyl notion is going to catch hold, so I am trying my next best guess.

I will move back to xyl if it gets close.

And gets sidetracked here. Still voices heavy Xyl suspicion.

Really?

This guy is pretty clearly scum.

At Reckoner: Xyl's wagon only had the most because I was on it.

Now I'm going to have to try and fend off my own lynch; I have a feeling the Town is getting close to the point of no return.

unvote
vote: Xylthixlm

We know that InHim was the Brooklyn kill, and that we have a Brooklyn left. InHim was pushing for Xyl's lynch and ends up dead.

See the pattern?

---

Let's look at Rhinox, now, as well.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of that claim.

For 1, aside from my vote, you were under very little pressure, so a claim wasn't really warranted. Also, your claim is entirely unverifiable. And really, why would a 1-shot vig kill on N1 anyways? Seems like it'd be smarter to wait until being more sure of hitting scum.

So I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

Xyl interaction, here.

I think evaluating the quality of a claim based on any mod-meta is a bad idea. I don't care if OGML used 100% paired roles in every other game - maybe this is the one game where he didn't. Assuming the mod will continue a previous pattern = gaming the mod = bad idea, IMO.

Takes Xyl's side in this matter, which was between me and Xyl.

I can see y Rhinox was the Bronx kill; he addressed Sam in his last post.

[ConsonantM]

BTW: Rhinox was not voting because he hadn't posted yet.

He had posted. Once. Not *much* of a post (To Kise calling him a Newb, a response of "WTF"), but a post, nonetheless.

If you want to call me scummy for something about that, call me scummy for waiting for Rhinox. But saying that I was voting with him a lot, because we were both not voting, is bullshit.

i see nothing wrong with both. "Not Voting" counts as a vote 2 me.

[ConsonantM]

How suspicious do you consider a complete lack of interaction?

Not very. It's annoying, but ppl do it sometimes, regardless of alignment.

[ConsonantM]

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

lazarusmoth

: 2 (ConsonantM,

xRECKONERx

)

DizzyIzzyB13

: 1 (cateraction)

Not Voting: 5 (Xylthixlm,

sam.samhorn, Phoebus, lazarusmoth

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Neone else find it hilarious that all 3 Bronx mafia r listed--back 2 back--on the not voting count?

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

lazarusmoth

: 3 (ConsonantM,

xRECKONERx

, Xylthixlm)

DizzyIzzyB13

: 1 (cateraction)

xRECKONERx

: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Phoebus: 1 (sam.samhorn)

Not Voting: 5 (

lazarusmoth

,

DizzyIzzyB13

)

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

lazarusmoth

: 2 (ConsonantM, Xylthixlm)

Phoebus: 2 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

sam.samhorn

: 1 (

xRECKONERx

)

Not Voting: 5 (

lazarusmoth

,

scotmany12

)

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Phoebus: 3 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction,

lazarusmoth

)

sam.samhorn

: 2 (

xRECKONERx

, Xylthixlm)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (ConsonantM)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Not Voting: 1 (

scotmany12

)

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Phoebus: 4 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction,

lazarusmoth

,

xRECKONERx

)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (ConsonantM)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Not Voting: 2 (

scotmany12

, Xylthixlm)

Vote Count: 5 to lynch

Phoebus: 5 (sam.samhorn

, cateraction,

lazarusmoth

,

xRECKONERx

, Xylthixlm)

lazarusmoth

: 1 (ConsonantM)
cateraction: 1 (

Phoebus

)

Not Voting: 1 (

scotmany12

)

And the result of the night:

sam.samhorn - Bronx Mafia Goon - Killed Night Three

Despite Sam's good buss, he gets killed+roleblocked. (Ouch.) Need to look at Sam in iso.

[ConsonantM]

Interesting 2 note is how Xyl switched from Laz,
To Sam,
To Unvote,
To Phoebus.

Every major bandwagon that day.

While Cat was on Dizzy,
Yet Switched to Phoebus and never left.

[ConsonantM]

Need to iso-read ya 4 that, Xyl. Havent done so, yet.

[ConsonantM]

Oh, boy...

I *hate* hammering. <_<

[ConsonantM]

i was working on Sam in iso:

---

With that said I too will vote: Xylthixlm

Random Xyl vote.

Bandwagoning. If you aren't scum, then inHim is, and vice versa.

Accusation against Xyl...

---

Sam looked town 2 me. 'Twas the most surprising flip of the game, 2 me. I still think theres a reason.

But a pattern i have seen:

Most of those night-kills...

Were suspecting Xyl.

With Pyro's flip, it is possible (and very probable) that both mafia targeted Reck. i had thought that Reck would block Xyl, making Xyl look better, but with Pyro's flip, far less positive. i'll b reviewing my notes, take a quick look at the rest of Sam's posts, look at the night-kills, who they were voting...and then hammer.

[ConsonantM]

A quick look shows me that most quotes were addressing Xyl. While Sam had voted Phoebus, he had been expressing serious doubts about Xyl and had shown an extreme willingness to lynch Xyl.

I dislike Cateraction's quick-hammer/turnaround, but i am seeing it less and less as a scum move. "Just want the game to be over"-->Wanting 2 lynch the last scum/wanting 2 hammer someone not a member of a two-man scum team.

Reck was suspicious of Xyl for almost the entire game.

Scot was leaning in his last post towards lynching Xyl.

Xyl, all the evidence i have points 2 u.

Every bandwagon.
Every night-kill.

Every single scrap of my body, every bit of my gut, every single fiber of my body, says that u r scum.

i am sorry, the rest of the town. Truly am. U should all kno who i am hammering. i want 2 get it right. i want 2 win this game. And i dont want 2 b wrong.

So if i am, my apologies. i hope u can 4give me 4 this, but it's over now, 1 way or the other.

Vote: Xyl

.

[ConsonantM]

Yay!

Mod:

Got Mod Notes?

GG guys, GG!

Word, good job Conso and Cater!

Eh, quite personally, I don't think I was playing my best this game. I got two scum (Laz, Xyl), but otherwise, was off the entire game.
If you know my main, you'd know why that's not even close to my best.

Mm-hm. Reck definitely did a good job. (Anyone think of a title for him? With that many scum in a row, he deserves one. )

He not only blocked scum four times in a row, but also four DIFFERENT scum in a row.

I though there were 2 Brooklyn mafia.

We all did.

Well, 'cept Xyl, who knew otherwise.

I thought cateraction/xyl.

As did I, especially after cat switched to you, so I was kinda dumbfounded that the game was still going after your lynch.

Great job Consonant. You really won the game.

Not really. All I did is look at the evidence that people like yourself had given. Vote Count Analysis, and the results of the night. ('Twas right on almost all accounts.) Who was night-killed.
All very basic stuff, fundamental tells. Besides a bit of gut, I had nothing more than those basic scum hunting tools to implicate Xyl. Nothing Xyl had done besides those tells (Rhinox vote pattern, for example, qualifies as a basic tell) implicated him.
I later found a bit more evidence (Rhinox siding with Xyl in his debate with me), but there wasn't much.
-Vote Count Analysis.
-Night Kill Analysis.
-Rhinox siding with Xyl.
-Gut.

Nothing more.

Nothing Cateraction had done, besides my gut town read on him, implicated him. What patterns existed pointed to him being Bronx, proven false later on. The hammer made me think Brooklyn, but when the game continued on, that became doubtful to me. I was shocked when I saw the Brooklyn Night-Kills almost all thought that cateraction was town, indicating cateraction wouldn't night-kill them.

-Vote Count Analysis showed him to not be Brooklyn.
-Night Kill Analysis showed that he was very doubtfully Brooklyn.
-Gut Town Read.

Like I said, I was working from the vote count analysis, and the night-kills.

There was almost nothing more than that.

Holy shit, did I really hit scum every night with my roleblocks?

Yea, you should get a title for that.

See? I told you on D1 that Xylth was scum

Told you D1 that Kise was town and that Laz was scum.

My last good chance to win was night 4 - if both my and pyro's kills had gone through on different people, I could have gotten the lynch on pyro for a win.

If both kills had gone through, leaving us with four alive, it'd be clear to us that there'd be one of each mafia left, and we'd have to no-lynch (or purposefully lynch a townie for Prisoner's Dilemma, but, who'd want to do that?), so, not really, Xyl.

Oh, and inHim correctly identified all five scum in one post...

Well, his list didn't include sam, although the only reason was off of gut.

But that post was one of the most important in the game: It showed why Cateraction wouldn't be scum (As InHim was thinking Cat to be town), and showed Xyl/Rhinox as scum. It, well, also showed two Bronx in the list (and another who just barely got off of it) as well.

[ConsonantM]

Obv. Town, suspicions. My guess, at least.

Hey, scum, mind QT links if ya have 'em, quoting PM's if ya don't?

Nice work Conso and Reckoner. Fun game.

Eh, like I said, I could've done better.
And while I had fun, this wasn't as much fun as I could've had. (Can't say why; instant-main-outage stuff.) A great game, and the mechanic definitely kept me around in such a way to contribute, but like I said, far from my best.
Still good, still fun, though.

[ConsonantM]

My Highlights:

Our setup looks something like this:

2 Mafia A,
2 Mafia B,
0-1 Serial Killer,
2-3 1-shot vigs,
0-2 roleblockers,
1-2 cops,
2-5 vanilla townies.

Heh. Replace the Serial Killer with a Mafia B member, and this is very close to accurate.
I also nailed the fact that OGML would include a pairing or two this game (two roleblockers, two 1-shot vigs).

My choices for a lynch:

lazarusmoth (active lurking, bandwagonning),
Rhinox (hasn't contributed much, other than the case against Izzy),
Xylthixlm (There are many at least attempted cases against Xyl. i definitely need to look into them a bit more.),
and Phoebus (general lack of content, possibly active lurking. Phoe did declare himself V/LA a while ago, though).

Heh. Got 4 scum.
Didn't get Sam, due to a town read, though.

4 a 1-man scum team, i'd think either Laz or Xyl would be it,

Heh. Got Xyl as the last Brooklyn way back then.

2: Two r scum. 1 Brooklyn, 1 Bronx, making the Bronx Mafia faction (of 2 goons so far) larger.
We have a ml today. Xyl/Pyro die. If correct, then it will b down 2 the other 2, and which is decided upon as the last member of the other mafia faction. If wrong and the pro-town player of the 3 is lynched, then either the scum cross-shoot, or we r left in a Prisoner's Dilemma situation.

-If wrong, then the next most probable scenario is Xyl is a lone scum member. About 30% on this.

30 later became far larger.

[ConsonantM]

Xyl: Pyro was also NK-immune every other night. The night the kill was blocked was 4.
You don't shoot Pyro N5, the 1-1-1 situation happens.
The kill against him would've failed due to that (being N6, where he would be immune), and it'd become clear to me when nobody died in the night phase in a PD situation that both scum are nk-immune and that town has lost. (Sure, going into night again would mean that you'd win, but, well, what would you have thought if your kill against Pyro failed? Would you try again? Or would you conclude that Pyro was ALSO NK-immune, given your own role PM?)

Heh. All-in-all, this was a very excellent game. We definitely had some good play from players all-around.

[ConsonantM]

Heh.

Theoretical Question:

After the failed night-kill, what would you be thinking?

Me?

Great. Juuuuuuuuust great.
So you're both NK-immune scum, no?
Well, that sucks.
Come on, you know it's true. There's just no way you no-killed, and I am not immune to night-kills.

Why?

No Kill. If the other faction kills me, you two are both left alive. Scum Best-case scenario: Scum draw. Scum Worst case scenario: You two endgame each other, Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies, nobody wins draw.

No Kill. The other faction kills you. You're NK-immune and live, though. We're right back where we started, three alive in day, two scum, yadda, yadda, does nothing at all.

Hence, you wouldn't no-kill.

I'm alive, so you didn't night-kill me.
And if you were, 'tis equally bad.

Hypo-Kill me. Other scum hypo-kills me as well/no kills/kills you yet you're NK-immune. Two scum alive. Scum Best-case scenario: Scum draw. Scum Worst case scenario: You two endgame each other, Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies, nobody wins draw.

So, of course, in your mind, the best option is to night-kill your opposing scum faction.

Kill them. Other scum either targets the pro-town player (an auto-lose in your eyes), or no-kills; either way, you're left alive and win. Or so, you'd think. In reality, it comes out to exactly what happened: no deaths, we're back where we started.

We could do this an infinite number of nights, or we can end it today.
Now, quite personally, neither Laz/Pyro nor Phoe have played spectacularly, but Sam has,
Compared to Xyl's and Rhinox's play, both not the best they could be.

Also, three versus two.

Hence, I believe that as it is now impossible for me to win, due to two NK-immune scum in a would-be Prisoner's Dilemma, I will chose the faction that I believe is most worthy of victory.

Vote: Xyl

.

Yea. If I were alive, you still would've lost, Xyl.

[ConsonantM]

(By the way, my solution to Prisoner's Dilemma regardless of NK-immunity is to always shoot the opposite scum. Shooting town leaves myself open for the other scum to NK-me [auto-lose], or nk the town as well [best: scum draw. Worst: RFED, NW draw]. Shooting no one leaves the opposite scum to shoot town [best: scum draw. Worst: RFED, NW draw], shoot no one [we go back into day], or shoot me [auto-lose for me].
While shooting the opposite scum leaves me far less vulnerable.
If they no-kill, I win.
If they kill the pro-town player, I win.
If they night-kill me, then it doesn't matter if I no-kill or kill town; I still have lost.
And I'd rather a town win than an opposing scum faction win.)

[ConsonantM]

Actually, scratch that. In Prisoner's Dilemma, I try to get the pro-town player lynched in order for a guaranteed draw, be it scum win, or nobody wins.

If that fails and there's a no lynch, though, NK the other scum.
It's 2/3 (two win scenarios) versus 1/3 1/3 1/3 (one third win, one third loss, one third tie). What more can I ask for?