Mini 850: Werewolves in the WAMB! - Game Over!

[Raskol]

Only scum knows who scum is at this point! Nice slip, wolfman!

vote: Looker

[Raskol]

Finally!

Vote: Raskol

He always have that hellish music loud, and I can't sleep well!

Do I know you?

[Raskol]

No, it was a joke of the game theme... ¬_¬

Not funny

[Raskol]

This game needs more bandwagon.

unvote

Vote: Lowell

for not posting and also so that he'll have three votes.

[Raskol]

You have to unvote first or else it doesn't count.

But don't do it, because this bandwagon needs more people, not less.

[Raskol]

Oh yeah, and

FOS: Looker

for being too squeamish to sit on a 3-person bandwagon in the RVS with 7 to lynch.

[Raskol]

Unvote. Vote: Raskol

you seem to have a pretty good idea about whom you wanna vote... so early... how come?

He was the only person to have two votes on him. We needed to bandwagon somebody. (NEEDED TO)

The fact that he hadn't posted yet was just a bonus.

[Raskol]

Please, don't take my hesitance to believe you as squeamishness. Why exactly should we be bandwagoning at this point?

unvote
vote toro

It's time for your second post of the game, sir.

Hesitance to believe what? That he hadn't posted, or that I gave him three votes? Not exactly controversial points which you need to be careful about

As to why: the RVS just isn't complete without a random bandwagon. It doesn't matter who it's on. It's the best way to start getting info, voting patterns, etc. Basically, a wonderful way to jump-start things.

I swear officer! From Raskol's apartment there were coming some strange wolf-howling sounds. I'm scared!!!!

You're just mad at me because I let you know you're not funny. :p

Also, lying is generally considered bad, even if you're only joking. Just fyi.

[Raskol]

Be patient and we will find scum. Please, let us not rush, we have still time to hammer.

Who said anything about hammering? Not all bandwagons lead to a lynch, you know.

[Raskol]

Well, this is a theme game, so it's funnier if you put some spice to it, some role playing. And I know lying is bad (it is one of my scum markers), but joking (which usually needs some innocent lies) is not (and specially if we are still so early in the game).

This is a mini normal, it just has werewolves.

="lewarcher82"

I kno, but in a 12 people game with possibly 3 scums and a 3rd party killing role, a 3-person BW is theoretically exposed to a scum hammering, since L-0 = 7.[/quote]

The scum team would have to be unbelievably stupid to give themselves up like that.

[Raskol]

The whole discussion of pr's on the bottom of p. 3 irks me, but I'm not sure if that is looker's sense of humor or some blatant rolefishing. Because we are no longer in the RVS,

Unvote.

The possible rolefishing plus the jumpiness from earlier does warrant an

FoS looker

unvote

Vote: ConfidAnon

Unvote then a FOS? Why not put your vote on if you found something suspicious?

[Raskol]

Throwing suspicion at someone without being willing to vote for them is scummy, unless you're only not voting for them because your vote is seriously on someone else.

ConfidAnon just took his vote off "because we're out of the RVS" so presumably that means he thinks we're at a stage where there are good reasons to vote people. He even gives a reason to be suspicious of Looker, but he doesn't vote for him. There's no good reason for a townie to hold off voting for the person they find most suspicious, unless they think it might end the day too early. Since Looker only has one vote on him at the moment, that's not a concern. The only way that extreme degree of caution makes sense is if CA doesn't really find Looker suspicious at all, and/or he's trying to see whether he can get support before he commits to a vote. Both are scummy motivations.

Snow Bunny is guilty of much the same thing imo...unless her vote on me is really serious, in which case her lack of a vote for Looker is understandable.

[Raskol]

Sorry guys, I've had a fever recently due to an infection and haven't been able to concentrate for shit. I'm headed to the doctor's on Monday to get it taken care of and after that I should be better and back in action, but until then I think my posting's going to be limited.

Feel free to replace me if that's going to be a problem

[Raskol]

Just did a reread. Out of everyone, Slepz strikes me as the scummiest.

Vote: Slepz

Mostly gut, but I'll try to explain later. Still not feeling great, but I'll try not to let that stop me.

[Raskol]

Sorry about the inactivity. One of my other games is close to deadline in potential LyLo and I've been having to concentrate a lot on that.

So, first our doc gets modkilled and now our vig (if he is our vig) comes out and claims for basically no reason. Yay.

Anyway, some points:

---The rose thing is not likely. This is a mini normal, something like that seems like it would only be allowed in a theme game. So suggesting it or believing it is either newbish or scummy. Banana isn't a newb, so that's a big fat

FOS: Banana

for him. That goes for Slepz too. Bolingbroke might be an alt, but otherwise by his post count it seems this is his first game, so I'll let him off.

---The claim was bad, bad, bad. I don't think we should lynch him, though---unless he won't kill who we want him to, or he makes it to LyLo.


As for Slepz:

---He's been concerned with speculating about how many scum factions we have, but hasn't done much actual scumhunting. This suggests someone more interested in cross-scum-hunting than scumhunting in general.

---He contradicted himself about Looker's bandwagon-jump:

I agree, there didn't seem to be any reason to bail on the bandwagon so quickly. You've got my suspicions, looker.

As for Looker's jumping off of Lowell's bandwagon, it doesn't bother me because the bandwagon didn't seem very serious yet.

---The fact that he thought Looker was a jester suggests mafia over town, as mafia know when someone isn't mafia and the idea of a jester is more likely to come to their heads when they see someone acting over-the-top suspicious---town will just think they're scum.

---also, gut (I don't expect this part to convince anyone)

[Raskol]

If you're not NK, I'll be quite suspicious.

*cough*WIFOM*cough*

[Raskol]

Don, a cop claim would actually only bring our field down to 7---since the only people that would be cleared for *everyone* would be the cop and the investigation target.

Everyone would be cleared for themselves, but that's always true and doesn't help us any, as the only clears that matter are the ones that everyone can agree on, see?

And the difference between 7 and 9 targets isn't so big as to be worth outing our cop now. Especially now, with the doc dead, I really don't care for a cop claim today. At all.

Now, if we all hypo-cop, that's another story altogether.

[Raskol]

I at least don't consider you cleared at all, especially since you refuse to let us vote for vigs---I'd be a lot happier about you if I could know that even if you are a serial killer, you'll have to be either a helpful one or a dead one.

You might change my mind if you can convince me that the info scum would gain could be so valuable to them as to outweigh the benefit town gains from having an extra "night lynch". I can't see what kind of info could be that valuable, though.

[Raskol]

/ninjas the first spot

I hypo-investigated cirdua, and he's hypo-innocent.

[Raskol]

I think we should vote for who gets vigged as well as voting for a lynch today.

If don kills anyone except who got voted for he should be lynched tomorrow. None of this 'taking suggestions' crap. He's throwing around way too much WIFOM for me to trust him with anything else.

[Raskol]

I think we should vote for who gets vigged as well as voting for a lynch today.

If don kills anyone except who got voted for he should be lynched tomorrow. None of this 'taking suggestions' crap. He's throwing around way too much WIFOM for me to trust him with anything else.

no. if we verbalize who is going to get vigged then mafia can base their night decision around it and create even more wifom. why don't you believe me? and why are you so eager to set up my lynch?

I'd rather have that than have you vigging people based on your own reasons and having to wonder what those reasons are. The way I look at your claim, it's just as likely to come from a serial killer as a vig, so this is the best way you have to show you're town-aligned. If you wanted to keep your kills secret, you shouldn't have claimed.

As it is, if you don't cooperate, I will do my best to get you lynched tomorrow. If you think giving scum info is so bad that it hurts us more than the kill would help, you're free to no kill as far as I'm concerned. But if you kill anyone that isn't majority voted to

be

killed, I'll treat you as a confirmed SK. End of story.

[Raskol]

Actually, I thought about it a little more, and I'm willing to make a concession.

We could also pick two targets, and let you choose one of them.

That way the scum won't know exactly who you're going to kill, and the town will know that you won't be killing people we don't want you to.

I hope that will be agreeable to you---that's really as far as I'm willing to go.

@everyone-thoughts? I want to get this resolved so we can move on to bigger and better things.

[Raskol]

One last thing---if we screw up and lynch town today, you should absolutely not kill anyone at all---since if there are 3 mafia, a town lynch today and two town kills tonight will lose the game for us straight off.

[Raskol]

I'm really liking my vote on Slepz right about now.

[Raskol]

So banana, what's your read on Slepz?

[Raskol]

I was hoping you'd be willing to take a stance on his alignment, actually.

[Raskol]

how do you expect someone to be vigged when you are voting to lynch the vig(who you believe to be sk)?

Respond to this, Slepz.

[Raskol]

Ooh, dunno 'bout that.

Lew is obvscum though.

please, explain

Seconded.

[Raskol]

By the way...

FWIW, I think lewarcher is town.

[Raskol]

He can't do anything at all if we lynch him today.

So given that you've voted for him to be lynched, it would seem as if any plans you could claim to have for his night action would be somewhat insincere.

[Raskol]

I took a re-read, actually Lew doesn't seem that scummy to me (a few mistakes), I guess I just got that impression from everyone else. Such as the scum.

So you said he was obvscum based on an 'impression' that, on a re-read, you couldn't remember how you got?

vigkill: banana

[Raskol]

Yeah, the vigkill thing was a vote for him to be vigged.

Well in case you hadn't noticed, nobody seems to agree with me, making a night action request still valid.

The fact that you won't succeed in getting him lynched doesn't change the fact that you're trying.

[Raskol]

Slepz is at L-1, that's all I know.

[Raskol]

I would be happy with a vig of banana, or Lowell/Cirdua (our lurkers). Slepz would be fine too obviously, that is if we don't lynch him.

I would also like to see everyone give a list of two or three people they wouldn't mind seeing vigged tonight.

[Raskol]

He's scummy and you're scummy.

[Raskol]

Not voting for Slepz does not immediately make banana (or any other non-voter) scum in my opinion.

When did anyone say it did?

He's scummy for totally independent reasons.

[Raskol]

Okay, I'm vanilla townie. Toro, you're next.

[Raskol]

You mean there's some sort of third party healing role?

i doubt it.

Probably best to hold off on this line of talk until we have all claims.

[Raskol]

Watcher.

This should go without saying, but please post your results.

[Raskol]

Watcher.

This should go without saying, but please post your results.

Watched Lowell, no one visited him.

Both nights, please. And your reasons for the choices.

[Raskol]

Sorry, I thought we were in Day 2. /smacks self.

O_o

Night 1

- RASKOL

- Pretty much just a random shot in the dark with watching him, no one visited him and he went nowhere.

Night 2

- LOWELL

- This one had more reason behind, seeing how he pretty much just lurked around I had a theory that he might just be lurkerscum or possibly, a lurkervig. But...no one came to him and he went nowhere.

Before you just posted that no one visited Lowell. Now you're saying you know where he went as well?

Paraphrase your role pm, please. Don't quote it, obviously.

[Raskol]

When I choose a target I'm able to see

who visited them

. I also take it that if they leave their house, I'd be able to see see that. I've had roles like that on other forums, not sure if that's in here.

But you left it out of your first post. Why?

Once again, it doesn't say that I can see people leave. I'm just guessing that they could...

That would be a really terrible guess. If it doesn't say you can do something, you can't do it. This is really basic, and you've played mafia before.

can you?

What?

Last question---do you seriously expect me to believe that you're a real investigator who forgot how many results he had?

[Raskol]

I actually think there's a pretty good reason to 'harass' (well, I call it scumhunting) the claimed watcher at this time.

[Raskol]

Dude, I stated that I forgot that this game was in Day 3, once again (repeated for emphasis), I GENUINELY FORGOT THAT IT WAS DAY 3, I THOUGHT IT WAS DAY 2.

So you forgot that you had watched two people in this game.

And you forgot to mention that you thought you could see where people had gone.

And you forgot that abilities not mentioned in your role pm are not part of your role.

Not buying it. At all.

[Raskol]

I'm not voting, so I don't see what the problem is.

[Raskol]

fair enough.

[Raskol]

my target last night was bolingbroke.

K, you shot someone who wasn't nominated by anyone. Remember what we said about that?

[Raskol]

wait a minute. i am wrong here. if toro only sees who visits players, then their results do not conflict.

If toro only sees who visits players, then he's lying scum and needs to be lynched asap.

[Raskol]

wait a minute. i am wrong here. if toro only sees who visits players, then their results do not conflict.

If toro only sees who visits players, then he's lying scum and needs to be lynched asap.

'Splain it.

We already went over this, actually.

In your results, you said that you knew where people had gone, and even used that to clear people. If that's not true, then you were lying about your results, which is a scum move if ever there was one.

[Raskol]

I said I assumed, not knew. Did I not?

FoS: Raskol

You said that afterwards. In the post where you gave your results you spoke as if you were sure.

After that, you even used that 'info' to clear two people.

[Raskol]

It seems to me that Raskol is quite quiet and doesn't seem to want attention.

Banana's posts D2: 6
Raskol's posts D2: 14

He also parrots quite a bit.

Examples or it didn't happen.

[Raskol]

Well I know that I'm not scum, don't I?

Sure you do.

Lemme just find some examples...

You said I've been doing it "quite a bit". Surely it shouldn't take you an hour to find a single example---I mean, you must have already had SOMETHING in mind when you made your accusations, right?

[Raskol]

Toro made an absolute mess of his claim, but from what else I've seen of him I'm not sure any more that it was alignment relevant---I think he would screw that kind of thing up no matter what his role.

don_johnson vigged somebody that no one nominated, despite being told he'd be lynched if he did---and agreeing. I would be pushing his lynch today, but hitting the mafia is more important than hitting a potential serial killer, or punishing people for bad play/lying about what they'll do. Anyway, he's outed now and there's no way he'll win if he's an sk---we'll lynch him if we get to a 3-person endgame if we have any sense at all (big if there, from what I've seen) so he's not a threat atm even if he is scum.

Lowell's cop claim basically gave us zero info, which is super fishy. Also, two investigators is questionable, so I'll be watching him til he's either NK'ed or gives us a guilty that checks out.

Cirdua just jokes around and lurks. I'm sure if he'd been around more I'd have more to say here.

Lewarcher is the one person I'm actually fairly confident is town.

Banana's attempt to cast suspicion on me, on the other hand, was just so insultingly bad that it can't go unpunished. The rose thing was completely unbelievable, too.

There are just so many people that deserve to be hanged for stupid, scummy play, but in the end I can only choose one.

vote: banana.

That's L-1.

[Raskol]

I would like to see Raskol vigged please.

Would that be based on your old, empty made-up case, or your new, empty OMGUS?

[Raskol]

don_johnson vigged somebody that no one nominated, despite being told he'd be lynched if he did---and agreeing. I would be pushing his lynch today, but hitting the mafia is more important than hitting a potential serial killer, or punishing people for bad play/lying about what they'll do. Anyway, he's outed now and there's no way he'll win if he's an sk---we'll lynch him if we get to a 3-person endgame if we have any sense at all (big if there, from what I've seen) so he's not a threat atm even if he is scum.

never agreed to my own lynch. not sure where you get that. there wasn't a whole lot of mominating going on, so i took my best shot. sleep tight.

Honestly, at this point I would regard being removed from this game as a favor.

[Raskol]

I actually don't really think anyone played well in this game (including myself, unfortunately).

Whatever though. At least it's over.

[Raskol]

I don't know. If there is, I'll be willing to nominate this game.

Toro might also qualify for worst fakeclaim ever. I'm kicking myself a bit for not pushing his lynch harder, but at that point I really didn't care and just wanted the game to end, so when I saw banana at L-2, I knew what I had to do. Anyway, banana deserved to die, I stand by that even knowing it lost the town the game. I only wish I could have strung more of you up

[Raskol]

Werewolf quicktopic: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/DDH9T4KwpF98

The lack of a kill night 2 was due to them not reaching a consensus. If they had sent one, the game would have actually ended then.

lol

Also, don, this is why you wren't supposed to vig at all if we lynched town.

I have a bias against cops, they seem to make people a little lazy ("scumhunting is hard, let's just wait for the cop to solve everything!") but in retrospect I agree that the town should have gotten some sort of investigative power role. Maybe a watcher or something.

Nah, the balance was fine. It was the players that fucked this one up. On both sides, apparently.

[Raskol]

Maybe because the game is over?