Mini 903 - Owarai TV (Game over... who won?)

[chauchaudotcom]

/confirm

[chauchaudotcom]

Vote: HellnFire666

for not having an avatar.

[chauchaudotcom]

]I think a third vote on someone is way more valuable than a random vote on anyone's else.

How so? Particularly at a stage where votes are more or less random?

I just don't want to see a bandwagon started this early in the game with little reasoning.

What do you feel are the chances of a dangerous bandwagon actually forming (going further then 3 votes) on Starbucks during a random stage?

[chauchaudotcom]

Dev - Why would someone freak out over three

random

votes on them? Also, do you really feel that people would seriously bandwagon and hammer based off random votes? As per the inquisition part do you mean an inquisition of the person being bandwagoned or the person bandwagoning?

[chauchaudotcom]

Fair enough.

How do you propose we spark more conversation then, Amish, so that we can do more scumhunting?

[chauchaudotcom]

Thanks for repeating what I already asked.

Anytime.

Starbuck, why didn't you question Rai about his vote on you?

[chauchaudotcom]

Starbuck, why didn't you question Rai about his vote on you?

Starbuck, please answer.

[chauchaudotcom]

I don't feel that we were in RVS, but it's a fault of mine that I give benefit of the doubt to those who just entered the game while were still in the first 5 pages.

Personally this doesn't make sense to me. Anon's vote was also at the beginning of the game but you weren't exactly prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. In any case I just found it weird how you called one out on their unexplained bandwagon vote but not another.

If thats an RVS vote, it means he's not really paying attention to the game >_>

I'm pretty sure Rai was paying attention from the start (his questioning of hellfire, his remark that his vote was both random but serious at the same time). For the record, he doesn't even have to pay much attention to know that Starbucks had more then one vote on her. It's all on page 1 which I'm sure any person would have at least read before random voting.

Let's not lynch Starbuck, k?

Are you content with keeping your vote on her?

[chauchaudotcom]

ef ms timed out on me so I wasn't sure if my post went through. T_T can you delete that repeat post mod?

lulz

o.o?

[chauchaudotcom]

My bad Reck changed votes. =/ I missed that.

[chauchaudotcom]

I called out on it start discussion to move us out of RVS. It seems to have worked, or would you disagree?

If you believed we were out of RVS wouldn't Rai's vote be even more suspicious?

Why are you so sure on this? What makes you so inclined to think so?

I feel a subtle defending of Rai here.

Uh how was this defending him? It was more like an obvious pointing out that we should not give Rai a "oh I didn't read it" pass which you and Dev seem so inclined to do. The reason why I was pretty sure I answered in my post. "(his questioning of hellfire, his remark that his vote was both random but serious at the same time)".

Also any person, no matter how lazy they are, would probably read at minimum the first page before random voting. In which there were already two votes placed on you. Hence even if he wasn't paying attention I doubt he would have missed that. We were only three pages into the game. =/ Are you seriously suggesting me that you people play mafia games and vote without reading or even skimming first?

They could easily come in and say, "Hey guys, my bad for being late. Here's my RVS vote, ha ha ha. Off to catch up".

I guess I have a different experience with games. All games I've gone into have been either RQS or very little RVS.

She pretty much nailed what I was doing with my vote

I don't believe that answered the question. How did she nail what you were doing with your vote? What were you looking for in her responses?

Nope. Starbuck is town, Anon is scum.

Reason?

Raskol, I haven't played with any of these people but it appears a lot of you know each other. Given this, how useful do you think metas are in catching scum?

As for my thoughts on someone...not sure. It's still early in the game and I have little to nothing on most people. Though I think the Rec and Star buddying is rather odd but that seems to be a relationship completely outside of this game. But if someone held a gun to my head and I had to vote I would probably pick Starbuck.

Since dram hasn't posted since confirm can we get a replace?

[chauchaudotcom]

Scratch my first question star seems like you answered that.

[chauchaudotcom]

Aside from the doubling up of VP's question which one are you talking about?

[chauchaudotcom]

My 82 followed by your 84 seems rather close.

I was the one who questioned her initially so it's only fair I do a followup on my questioning. You posting before me was simply because you were online before me.

I challenge the notion that I gave him a "didn't read it pass". I merely left all options open, to ensure no mistakes were made.

Fair enough.

Are you just asking questions to ask questions?

No. I was talking about the second question.

Q: What about Starbucks responses did you like?
Q: She pretty much nailed what I was doing with my vote

But I just realized I read it wrong. =/ I thought you meant that she simply responded in a manner that was satisfactory to what your vote was attempting to achieve. But after re-reading your statement I realize you were talking about her defense for your vote.

Kinda like how Amished is trying to imply that it's somehow scummy to make a random vote on page 3 with my first post.

I found it odd too though.

Raskol - Why VP as a second?

I think he's just copying people that he knows are protown.

Where was he 'copying' people? Post #s please.

[chauchaudotcom]

Dev's point would work if Amish was a SK right?

Also, where the ef did Dram go?

[chauchaudotcom]

V/LA until Sunday.

Also, I want to

unvote

for now. I know you guys are pressuring but I'd rather not have something happen while I'm away. Will catch up with everything when I return.

[chauchaudotcom]

I felt pressure, I really didn't have any other way to defend myself, so I claimed my role.

I believe we got a confession my friends.

[chauchaudotcom]

Rec - How did you get that distinction between the two or is it just a gut read?

[chauchaudotcom]

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Vote: Raivann

[chauchaudotcom]

Why no Hell vote then?

VP was still in the process of questioning Hell and I wasn't about to put Hell in a position for a hammer until questioning was done.

Did my vote not go through because I didn't unvote? Unvote; Vote: Raivann

[chauchaudotcom]

Hm...

Unvote

because of this:

I've been suspensions of Hell's posts for awhile now, nice try though.

which I re-read and is true.

[chauchaudotcom]

I'm ambivalent about Starbuck and Raivann (although both would make for a weird combinaison)
Chau and Amished are strong town reads so far.
Raskol's vote on me makes no sense at ALL, considering I hadn't posted at the time, I fail to see what it was trying to accomplish. It wouldnt get a reaction, it wouldnt stop eventual lurking (since I'd need to post before I can be accused of that). It's an easy-lynch though.

Question Dram. How did you draw the conclusions you did about me and Amished? Having a

strong

town read on us this early in the game the reads just seems rather....weird.

[chauchaudotcom]

Perhaps I phrased it wrong, I was asking how he could get

strong

pro town reads so early in the game with little to go on. It just seems weird to me. Particularly given how it's rather difficult for me to get good reads on a lot of the people in this game.

[chauchaudotcom]

Wait I think that

was

a hammer.

Rec didn't unvote but his vote counted. So Inquisition's vote should count too.

=/ Joy.

[chauchaudotcom]

Actually, chauchau, why are you lobbying for a hammer when you are not even voting hell?

I'm not. I didn't know Rec unvoted so I thought it was a mod mistake.

What are everyone opinions of Reck?

I can't read him because of things like this:

Bullshit answer or truthful answer?

[chauchaudotcom]

I don't see any motive for a scum player to promise content knowing they have nothing to deliver, so I don't see any reason to think that HellFire is scum for promising and then not delivering content.

To hope that in the mean time other suspects will pop up (as they have) and then they can successfully lurk their way and at least survive N1.

He would happily lynch a townie.

A misrep. In the event of not having a scummiest he said he would lynch the noobiest (most likely to hinder town progress). Newbies don't equate town.

[chauchaudotcom]

Now that hell has effectively flipped scum, I say we can lynch Rai.

Why Rai?

[chauchaudotcom]

Hm. I just noticed I never got around to answering star's questions.

Can you point out where you felt I was doing this? Why do you assume you know my agenda?

I looked at it as an RVS vote.

I don't feel that we were in RVS, but it's a fault of mine that I give benefit of the doubt to those who just entered the game while were still in the first 5 pages.

And I don't assume I know your agenda. But your posts indicated you were in fact givin him the 'benefit of the doubt' which I view as a free pass.

I've seen it happen on more than one occasion. I don't like your suggestion that a situation like that never could happen.

Not sure what you want me to say to this. I just find it weird that a person would ever post something without reading anything. But as I said before "All games I've gone into have been either RQS or very little RVS."

So, why exactly would you pick me?

I picked you back then because I was asked to name who my top was and you were. Your responses to the second random wagon rubbed me the wrong way and my gut said you were scum.

[chauchaudotcom]

So I have a question for Dev.

ISO 14

If he's guilty, I assume we will ISO him and check his relations with everyone?

ISO 15

Wait, whoa, whats with all the hammering.

Inbetween which Rai voted, Amished Unvoted.

The vibe I got from iso 14 was that you were pretty content with a Hell lynch at that point. But iso 15 obviously showed you were not, despite the fact that the vote count on Hell didn't increase.

My question being what led you to think there was a hammer? And why were you questioning the hammering when your iso 14 talks about what to do after he flips?

[chauchaudotcom]

Because I read something about hammering in there. I questioned the hammer because I thought other people still wanted to gain information.

Other then VP's post telling ppl not to hammer (right after yours) I don't believe there was any mention of hammering.

my top scum reads at the moment are Reckoner, Anon, and chauchaudotcom

Explanations for me and Anon?

Now that hell has effectively flipped scum, I say we can lynch Rai.

Aside from his interaction with star's wagon why are you so positive Rai is scum?

[chauchaudotcom]

You random vote hell and leave your vote there for a very long time. You ask quite a few questions but never arrive at a conclusion as to who is scum (at least one that would prompt you to change your vote).

Why would I take my vote off someone who was acting suspicious at the time?

Well that's pretty much a BS reason to get off your random vote. Not only that, but you don't vote anyone else or really seem to have any serious suspects at that point.

I actually wondered when someone would question me about this. That was my fault entirely. This is my first non-newbie games so I'm used to it being five to lynch. I didn't realize how stupid I sounded until I came back and saw that it was 7 to lynch not 5.

So you believe that he confessed to being scum, but you don't vote him? sounds more than a little fishy.

Because you were waiting for him to answer questions. Were you not the one who requested us not to hammer until you were done?

Two posts after that, you vote Raivann for a bullshit reason that turns out to be wrong anyway...wtf? CONFESSED SCUM YOU SAID.

Because it was the second wagon Rai jumped on in the game, with zero explanation. Hence, I voted him. But after ward Rai defended himself saying he had prior suspicions of hell before and I went back and found out that I was wrong, which explains my unvote.

[chauchaudotcom]

Perhaps because you weren't actually paying him any attention while you were at least questioning some other players (starbuck and dram iirc).

I believe I was accused of 'echoing'. So was there a need to repeat what others were already asking? Hell was suspicious enough that I felt alright to leave my vote on him, but I was still pursuing other suspects, such as star an dram. But neither produced anything I felt solid enough to change my vote.

Meh, I don't know if I buy this.

Whether you buy it or not, it's the truth.

But you never returned to it is my point. There were people bailing off there for awhile and you would have had a chance to vote without putting him in danger of a lynch if you had wanted. Furthermore, you weren't even questioning him about anything or trying to convince people he was a good lynch. In fact, once the heat got turned up on Hell, you didn't have much really relevant to say at all.

I wasn't as confident as you and Amished were about Hell being scum and as everyone was still waiting for Hell's reply I didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon (close to lynch or no) until he explained himself. At that point I was looking more at dram and dev's case against rec.

Poorly researched counter wagon attempt is poorly researched.

Not a wagon attempt, just a poorly researched vote.

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure about this right now, so we should just lynch him and be done with it.

Ah how disappointed you'll be.

[chauchaudotcom]

@cc.com-Who do you wanna lynch today?

Dram, Dev + Star are my top suspects right now, in that order. So my top lynch candidate would be dram.

I don't think hell was even being questioned that much over that early period. Raskol made a brief accusation and voted. Raivann said he was likely scum (with you) and never voted, and I made a brief accusation and voted. There wasn't a lot of straight up questioning of hell happening, so I think there was plenty of room for you to work stuff in there.

Also, the above quote from you seems to imply that you were worried about being seen as echoing if you had the same suspects as other people. I don't like self-awareness of appearance (hint:that is what first turned me on to hell).

Anon was questioning Hell about his jump on the whole initial band wagoning attempts. I did try to question Hell then you and Rai jumped on me for it. If I question, my questions are empty and I'm scum, if I back off questioning then I'm too self-aware and am scum. See the problem?

Why though? You said in thread that he essentially claimed scum...those are pretty confident words if you ask me. Why would you say that if you weren't sure about him being scum? Why was it more important to look at dram and dev's cases than to solidify your feelings on hell?

It was to test Hell's reaction. And confident or not, I don't like to vote until a defense is given. And as for looking at dram and dev, there is more then one scum out there and seeing how I've gone through so many D1 mislynches it's only fair I pursue other suspects. It's not a matter of 'more' important or not because hell wasn't there to respond to accusations so while waiting I pursued other prospects.

Any vote you think is for legitimately scummy reasons at the time is a wagon attempt.

Fair enough. But I'm not scum so it wasn't a scum attempt at a bandwagon like you claim.

Where have I heard something like this before? OH, right:

You can't provoke me into saying something wrong because I'm not lying.

[chauchaudotcom]

Dram - Mainly, his meta claim about me rings false. I know how I played that game and I know how shitty I am playing this game, there is no way he would have a town read on me if he knew my meta. He's a little to uppity about Raskol's vote on him for lurking. In ISO 2 he gives his opinion on a list of people but doesn't mention Rai. Yet ISO 3 he seems positive Rai is scum. To me the jump doesn't make sense, particularly given he is so positive that Rai is scum (for reasons towards the beginning of the game prior to his ISO 2), regardless of what Hell flips.

Which leads me to the long awaited:

Vote: Dramonic

Dev - For trying to shift bandwagon attention to Rec day one, with a rather bad case.

Star - Has rubbed me the wrong way since the beginning of the game. Took second bandwagon attempt too lightly in comparison to first. Conveniently disappeared when hell discussion started, came back with questions on everyone, voted hell, then disappeared for quite sometime after ward. Star hasn't done much follow up despite her whole long questioning post which makes wonder if she was just trying to appear as if she were scum hunting. Overall, for star, I just get a bad vibe from her.

I don't state my thoughts unless something jumps out at me or what I think is clearly not what anyone else is thinking- I get tired of being lynched for "lack of originality"

You didn't answer Raskol's first question.

think that's L-1 just so everyone knows. I'd still like more discussion before we lynch. Also, see my sig for V/LA, so don't do anything too foolish while I'm gone.

The double voter unvoted so I only have three votes on me?

I'm more than happy with a chauchau wagon, tbh. The not voting after calling HellFire's post a "confession" is just obvious scumbag material.

I already explained this. I did not vote because VP was still questioning so I was waiting for answers.

[chauchaudotcom]

Good job guys. I am probably useless to you all now.

I'm the town cop. I made the mistake of checking The Inquisition n1 so there's a high chance you all won't believe me so take it as you will.

[chauchaudotcom]

Fuck. Rec didn't L-1 me.

[chauchaudotcom]

Obviously you put the time into defending yourself, but why haven't you put out something really attacking another player today?

What? I was gone for the weekend so I couldn't post until today. It's not like I'm rehashing on purpose. My top suspect is dram because of his meta read on me. Has anyone pointed that out before me? I think not.

And quite frankly I'm a little more worried about being lynched because I'm a PR.

[chauchaudotcom]

With a confession, you vote for who confessed. You don't look for connections until after the flip, you don't look for a secondary suspect, you wait until you can vote for him.

I don't get it. Why not? There is more then one scum in the game so why is it wrong to pursue other suspects while you're waiting for a defense?

[chauchaudotcom]

If you are indeed a town cop you are likely to be nightkilled soon.

Indeed. Which is why I said VP would be disappointed. Unless he's scum of course which means he's probably ecstatic atm.

[chauchaudotcom]

Right before the night ended someone said inquis was a double voter. Given that and his extreme inactivity day 1, I thought it would be useful to find out his alignment so there wouldn't be confusion and false pursuit d2.

As for bread crumbing I didn't do any. I didn't even know I was supposed to. I'm rather inexperienced when it comes to pr play (noob card, I know, but it is the truth).

1. How did I take the second bandwagon too lightly? Examples please.

1. The fact that you passed it off as a RV rather then questioning it like you did the first bandwagon. "Cool, I've never been quicklynched before. This shall be fun!" just seemed like you were trying to play it off.

2. I actually have a life outside of MS. I'm military and that means that my job and other things have a higher priority than my mafia game on the internet. You can look at all of my posts via my profile and see that my activity dropped in all of my current games during that time.

Fair enough. But I can't verify as it won't let me access your posts.

Also, why didn't you follow up on the questions you asked d1? Did Hell's flip suddenly change your opinions of everyone and your cases against them?

How didn't I provide examples? Your reaction to the bandwagon, your inconsistent activity, your lack of followup despite questioning, gut read. I didn't link exact posts but I gave you reasons why I suspect you. And there is a reason why you are my #3 not my #1.

By all means, question whoever you want, but to vote for somebody else over somebody you felt to be 100% scum just doesn't make sense.

I wasn't 100% sure he was scum. I said that to add more pressure to him and see how he reacts. But obviously, you are all taking it the wrong way.

Only skimming quickly, but I don't really believe the claim (another early claim at that!). Did you breadcrumb Chau? Why did you choose The Inquisition when he wasn't even on your scumlist at all yesterday? Do you know your sanity?

In my defense I thought Rec voted me on page 17 because his post on page 18 made it sound like it. MS kept timing out on me so I just used the quick reply to post because I was nervous since Rec was calling for a quick hammer.

Also, I am sane. The pm said Inq was innocent.

[chauchaudotcom]

For the meta CC.C, as far as I know there is more to a meta than just how good or bad a game is played. I am receiving the same feel from his posts as in the other game in which he was town.

\

Then explain to me what part of my meta made you think I am for sure town.

I assume you are talking about him shifting away from the hell wagon, so where was the hell wagon at during that stage and why do you feel he was shifting away with his case (which iso post is that btw)?

At that point we were waiting on hell's to respond to your questioning of him and Anon shifted and started questioning Inq. And Dev then shifted his vote to Rec in ISO 17, later claiming Rec > Hell on the scumminess list in ISO 13 he claimed and voted Hell:

And I come to page eight and he's

folded

. ROFL!

I felt he was shifting away because his case on Rec was pretty much a big misrep.

But now I realized Anon was doing the same with Inq too. I haven't looked at Anon very much so I need to go back and iso him.

[chauchaudotcom]

@CC.C: I'm reading your post here and I get a feeling from them. It's the exact same feeling as when I read up in the newbie game. Simple.

that's why I want to know what exactly in my posts is giving you these 'feelings'? There has to be something a little more concrete that invokes these so called "strong town reads" on me.

[chauchaudotcom]

dram, STILLLLLL waiting on your Raivann case. deliver. now.

Post 496 was his case on Rai.

It feels here like you wanted me to overreact so you could pin something on me.

Uh, no. It was a matter of consistency. You questioned one bandwagon attempt but not another, which I interpreted as odd. And knowing "I had 3 votes, which is no where near being lynched." Then why did you say this: "Cool, I've never been quicklynched before. This shall be fun!"

How is it for you to say that I didn't?

Because you didn't post responses on anyone's responses.

Saying those things, but not providing specific quotes/actions = not providing examples, thus not providing evidence.

Because I assumed we were all reading the same game and knew what was going on. But if you want specifics:

bandwagoning shit
Iso 3 - questioned Amish
Iso 6 - didn't question Rai, just played it off
Iso 10, 11, 12 - gave Rai a pass but didn't with Amish

In original case but ceded, but for your reference anyway:
Iso 22 to 23 - gone for four days when Hell inquisition begins
Iso 25 to 26 - gone for a week when Hell is close to lynch

followup
Iso 24 - provides huge ass post with a bagillion questions
Iso 27 - when you come back after the nk none of prior questions are mentioned, hence my accusation of a no follow up.

gut
in general your posts have given me a bad vibe because you interpret people's questions in odd ways and it didn't seem like you were suspicious of people (prior to hell) because they were scummy but merely because they were the ones questioning you.

odd interpretations when being 'questioned'
Iso 14, 24(chau 1st two) and......more recently to add to the bunch Iso 38
voting reasoning
Iso 16, 24(amished sec)

Overall you're really passive aggressive. You only attack when being attacked.

[chauchaudotcom]

Overall you're really passive aggressive. You only attack when being attacked.

LoL, catch up with the game plx.

Are you referring to your dram case? Because the whole dram bit started quite a bit ago and you didn't build a case on him until now so I'm taking that as a whole separate matter.

[chauchaudotcom]

You'll be around because I'm gonna get nked.