Mini 903 - Owarai TV (Game over... who won?)

[Starbuck]

/confirm

[Starbuck]

Vote: The Inquistion

Because I'm part English and a HUGE fan of Queen Elizabeth.

[Starbuck]

I understand Reck's vote on me. It's all about the love. <3

With Mr. Vice President, it's just obvious (if you don't understand, please go watch Battlestar Galactica), but Anon, what's your deal bud?

Got a reason or do you just like bandwagons?

[Starbuck]

I think they can, but there are 10 other people that you could have voted for, instead of placing the 3rd vote (thus creating a bandwagon) on myself.

So I was just wondering why you chose to create a bandwagon over voting for someone else.

[Starbuck]

That contradicts your Post 25 when you say

I dont think anyone can have a reason to vote someone on page 1, do you?

So you are stating that you did vote me for a reason, when you tried to go out of your way to say you did not.

[Starbuck]

So Hell, what do you think about Anon's explanation?

[Starbuck]

Cool, I've never been quicklynched before. This shall be fun!

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck: Do you deserve to be quicklynched?

I don't believe so.

Do you think I have done anything to deserve a bandwagon or to possibly be quicklynched?

[Starbuck]

"Creating sympathy" was not my intention at all. I noticed Anon's join date and I was curious about his motives. As well as trying to start some discussion to move us out of RVS, which I think I have done.

Bandwagons get info for the town, if my bandwagon (and possible lynch) can help our town nail scum. I'm all for it.

So, why is it a bad thing (that's what I feel you are alluding), in your eyes, that I'm asking questions and trying to stimulate discussion?

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, what do you think your chances of being lynched today stand at?

I'm not sure yet.

My lynch is always a definite possibility. I can't ever seem to survive.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck, why didn't you question Rai about his vote on you?

Starbuck, please answer.

Sorry, I missed that.

Because it was his first post into the game.

[Starbuck]

I looked at it as an RVS vote.

[Starbuck]

I don't feel that we were in RVS, but it's a fault of mine that I give benefit of the doubt to those who just entered the game while were still in the first 5 pages.

[Starbuck]

You seem like you were just advocating for active lurking.

[Starbuck]

Personally this doesn't make sense to me. Anon's vote was also at the beginning of the game but you weren't exactly prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. In any case I just found it weird how you called one out on their unexplained bandwagon vote but not another.

I called out on it start discussion to move us out of RVS. It seems to have worked, or would you disagree?

I'm pretty sure Rai was paying attention from the start (his questioning of hellfire, his remark that his vote was both random but serious at the same time). For the record, he doesn't even have to pay much attention to know that Starbucks had more then one vote on her. It's all on page 1 which I'm sure any person would have at least read before random voting.

Why are you so sure on this? What makes you so inclined to think so?

I feel a subtle defending of Rai here.

[Starbuck]

@Star: What do you mean? Active lurking is about the worst thing you (proverbial you) can do in a game this size.

My point exactly.

So why would you say in Post 82, that

It doesn't really matter when somebody has their first post, if they're following along they'll know the tone of the game.

Why doesn't it matter when they have their first post?

[Starbuck]

Why wouldn't they put out an RVS vote? Why are you assuming that they wouldn't?

They could easily come in and say, "Hey guys, my bad for being late. Here's my RVS vote, ha ha ha. Off to catch up".

You are assuming things way too easily. I'm not comfortable with that.

Vote: Amished

[Starbuck]

What about Raiv's vote made you think that it was totally random and didn't bother you beyond "getting quicklynched"?

Can you smell what The Rock is cooking!

That sounds like a pretty joking tone to me.

He also stated in Post 71 that

It was my serious random vote.

What exactly is that? You've already asked him that question. I'm awaiting his response.

The fact that he went out of his way to use the word random gives him a little leeway with me.

[Starbuck]

I think wagons are a good thing, just look at the discussion this one has generated.

Thank you! At least someone agrees with me.

[Starbuck]

@Kise - I am voting for Amished now.

[Starbuck]

Oh wow, Kise, you're ONE OF THOSE mods

Unvote
Vote: Amished

[Starbuck]

@Raskol - I saw it, and I'm not ignoring it, but I was only stopping in the site real fast while I'm at work, and I'd rather have time to give you an answer than to rush through one. Make sense?

[Starbuck]

HnF666 is eligible for a prod come Sunday. Is 5 days of inactivity too long before I issue prods?

Yes, you should do the 72 hr rule.

And I'll be catching up in a bit, got a vet appointment for my dog.

[Starbuck]

I'll be catching up shortly. I have an eval due that's taking over my life until the end of today.

But

Unvote

for now, until I catch up

[Starbuck]

My apologies for not being around. It's just been crazy busy here.

On Raivann

I'm not really liking his response to Devestation in Post 104. It feels too much like parroting to me.

On Raskol

Thoughts on anything unrelated to your wagon, please.

At that point, not so much. It really seemed to be the only thing being discussed.

Have you played with xRx before?

On chauchaudotcom

It was more like an obvious pointing out that we should not give Rai a "oh I didn't read it" pass which you and Dev seem so inclined to do.

Can you point out where you felt I was doing this? Why do you assume you know my agenda?

Are you seriously suggesting me that you people play mafia games and vote without reading or even skimming first?

I've seen it happen on more than one occasion. I don't like your suggestion that a situation like that never could happen.

Though I think the Rec and Star buddying is rather odd but that seems to be a relationship completely outside of this game. But if someone held a gun to my head and I had to vote I would probably pick Starbuck.

Reck's def one of my fav people on this site. Our friendship extends beyond the game, but that doesn't mean he won't see my wrath.

So, why exactly would you pick me?

On Anon

@Starbuck: Why are you voting Amished? Do you have some opinions of who is most likely town/scum?

I'm voting Amished because I didn't like that he assumption that people who had just entered the game would go straight into things. Different people play different ways, and he contradicted himself as I illustrated here.

It's still a bit early and I'd prefer not to give a town/scum list just yet.

On Amished

Also, I've played with starbuck for like 2 real-life days I think in Tar's Legacy of the Ancients mafia before I got daykilled by Xyl. No real interaction. As for the point of the questions, hopefully it'll get me information for later. If I can see how far somebody would think ahead (so far, impression is maybe 2 steps or so); if something goes "wrong" for hypo-Starbuck-scum I'll know how far I have to question to see if she's scum or if she's town and it's just a weird circumstance.

If you had "no real interaction" with me really prior to this game, how can you possibly do the above if you have no experience playing with me?

On HellnFire666

What's with his uber early claim in Post 179? I'm getting the feeling of a poker hand folding.

In short: I felt pressure, I really didn't have any other way to defend myself, so I claimed my role.

So you felt pressure and started squirming, I take it?

Unvote: Amished
Vote:HellnFire666

On Devestation

theres no pretext for the pressure vote, and a pressure vote without pretext doesn't cause pressure.

Where was there no pretext for xRx's vote? People wanted content out of HellnFire666 and I believe xRx was just trying to push that along. Well, that's the feeling I got.

And what was with your sudden change to Hell?

Wait, whoa, whats with all the hammering.

What's with the overreaction?

[Starbuck]

Because you didn't have anything for me to respond to! Don't get mad at me because your persona this game is not to post anything with substance. =P

[Starbuck]

What makes you and Amished cleared, VP?

[Starbuck]

On Amished

I don't buy you and VP as nearly confirmed because either one of you could easily have been bussing. I'm not saying that you were, but it's a possibility that is still there.

Though I don't see why a scum double voter would use it to hammer his buddy.

To try and clear himself and go "Look at me! I hammered teh scumz!"

On xRECKONERx

I'm a Town Doublevoter. I mean, I don't know how I can convince you, especially since I used my double vote to hammer my scum buddy.

This is WIFOM. We do not know your alignment.
I am very, very wary of double voter claims because, as Amished already said, I was one in Tar's Legacy of the Ancients game and was scum. I have also seen multi-vote roles flip more often as scum than as town in games I've played on the View Askew board.

Although the wiki says in Doublevoter that it's alignment is pro-town.

I'm still torn on the issue and I need to think about it more.

I'm sure I can point out plenty of games where a Doublevoter is town.

Please provide these examples.

My meta of Starbuck tells me she is scum this game, and I'd like to not really reveal what that meta is because then she'll play against it. Let's just say... there's a pretty blatant difference between town-Starbuck in every other game I've played with her and scum-Starbuck.

Lawl, so you think I'd never try to mix up my meta when I'm in a game with you because of the above factor?

STARBUCK PLZ CONTRIBUTE MORE. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON D2 SO FAR?

Working on it, nubz! Hold ur horsez!

On Anon

Read somewhere that she is usually very aggressive to the wagons formed against her. But here, she has been totally the opposite, like being ironic to the wagon formed against her day 1. Starbuck, any explanation for this?

Read my above reply to xRx.

Also, I've also been rather busy and trying to catch up in all my games. This game was in night the longest so I was concentrating on others prior to this one.

[Starbuck]

VP, that's why that statement was directed at Amished and not you.

And on the double voter issue, that's why I linked the double voter Wiki entry right below that and said I needed some more time to think on it.

[Starbuck]

Because I'm getting to easy to read for some people and also, like you do, I like to mix things up a bit. I don't like being predictable.

When others that I've never played with get told that I have a scummy town meta, they never believe it. I, personally, would like when I'm town to be read as pro-town, and not vice versa.

[Starbuck]

cc.com, what are your cases on Dev and myself?

[Starbuck]

cc.com, what are your cases on Dev and myself?

I meant to include dramonic here as well.

[Starbuck]

Reck, explain to me how you went from

Nope. Starbuck is town, Anon is scum.

to

Top lynch suspect atm: Starbuck

But there are plenty of good secondary choices.

[Starbuck]

But last I knew the top quote was based on meta too.

[Starbuck]

I'm just curious as to why I'm viable?

I'm on quite a few scumlists, but I don't know why.

[Starbuck]

Star - Has rubbed me the wrong way since the beginning of the game. Took second bandwagon attempt too lightly in comparison to first. Conveniently disappeared when hell discussion started, came back with questions on everyone, voted hell, then disappeared for quite sometime after ward. Star hasn't done much follow up despite her whole long questioning post which makes wonder if she was just trying to appear as if she were scum hunting. Overall, for star, I just get a bad vibe from her.

1. How did I take the second bandwagon too lightly? Examples please.

2. I actually have a life outside of MS. I'm military and that means that my job and other things have a higher priority than my mafia game on the internet. You can look at all of my posts via my profile and see that my activity dropped in all of my current games during that time.

3. So basically what you are saying is that you don't have a case? You said all this, but didn't provide any examples.

However, I feel your {Star} stance on xRx to be a spectacular display of fence-sitting. You only talked about your experiences with a double voter (which have been largely scum); and the wiki saying that it's mostly town. You don't go to analyze the rest of his play this game, you just analyze the role, which obviously we've had examples of both alignments so that's highly ineffective and a largely useless post.

I don't feel it's fencesitting. Mostly everyone else had already stated that it was a scummy role in their eyes and/or experience. I wanted to provide the fact that I have been a scum double voter and have seen more scum double voters than town, but I also wanted to provide the opposite side as well.

I also said I needed to think on it a little more. So I really don't understand how providing both sides of the situation is fencesitting.

[Starbuck]

Reck, where's your case darlin?

[Starbuck]

But still you provide no case on me.

You, of all people, should know how I feel about people who do not provide cases.

[Starbuck]

1. The fact that you passed it off as a RV rather then questioning it like you did the first bandwagon. "Cool, I've never been quicklynched before. This shall be fun!" just seemed like you were trying to play it off.

I had 3 votes, which is no where near being lynched.

It feels here like you wanted me to overreact so you could pin something on me.

Also, why didn't you follow up on the questions you asked d1? Did Hell's flip suddenly change your opinions of everyone and your cases against them?

How is it for you to say that I didn't?

How didn't I provide examples? Your reaction to the bandwagon, your inconsistent activity, your lack of followup despite questioning, gut read. I didn't link exact posts but I gave you reasons why I suspect you. And there is a reason why you are my #3 not my #1.

Saying those things, but not providing specific quotes/actions = not providing examples, thus not providing evidence.

I really don't understand how providing both sides of the situation is fencesitting.

when you never actually deliver an opinion, this is the quintessential definition of fence sitting.

I can see this. All I was trying to say is that I am always wary of double voter claims due to my experiences with them.

[Starbuck]

ISO of Dram - Day 1

He lurked through a good chunk of the beginning of the game. I do realize he was on vacation, but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't here.

His first post is on January 2nd just stating that "Dram is here".

After FOUR DAYS of him not being around, he posts for a second time on January 6th stating that he's finally back from vacation and he's gonna read up.

THREE DAYS LATER and we get his third post/first post of substance on January 9th - Page 9, Post 202. Here he votes for Hell stating that he is caught scum, and says the following:

I'm ambivalent about Starbuck and Raivann (although both would make for a weird combinaison)
Chau and Amished are strong town reads so far.
Raskol's vote on me makes no sense at ALL, considering I hadn't posted at the time, I fail to see what it was trying to accomplish. It wouldnt get a reaction, it wouldnt stop eventual lurking (since I'd need to post before I can be accused of that). It's an easy-lynch though.

FoS: Raskol

I don't understand how Raskol's vote "makes no sense" if he was trying to pressure dram to post.

dram says here that "it wouldn't get a reaction", but that's exactly what he just gave here.


Also, this is the only time during Day 1 that he mentions me.

After Raivann votes HellnFire...

^scumpartner of the previously mentionned outed scum.

@Dram - How is my vote different from anyone else's?

It's hasty and uninformed. Also I already had previous suspicions of you. This just reinforces it.

What was hasty and uninformed about his vote?

He then states:

My previous suspicion is unrelated to your behaviour with Hell. It's more about your interaction with the Starbuck wagon that rubbed/scraped me the wrong way.

How did it rub you the wrong way? What specifically made you suspicious?


He seems very reluctant to link Hell and Rai....

I'm not saying I dont believe they are scum together. I'm saying what first triggered my suspicion of Raivann is unrelated to Hell. They could very well be scum together, the fact he stated earlier suspicions is meaningless, at the very least until either one flips.

Wether hell flips town or scum, I believe Raiv will flip scum. Meanwhile, I believe Hell will flip scum.

Call them mutually exclusive if you like.

He then states to VP Baltar that his preferred lynch for Day 1 is Hell.

[Starbuck]

ISO of Dram - Day 2

Now that hell has effectively flipped scum, I say we can lynch Rai.

Now why would he say this if he didn't feel a connection between the 2?


We don't hear from him again for over 2 pages later where he states that he feels the Amished-Baltar-Reck discussion is just town bickering.


Then we don't hear from him for another page when he posts:

I find it quite funny that the people I most believe to be town keep attacking each other one way or another.

I want to lynch either Starbuck or Raivann. Both give me that tingly sensation and I think there HAS to be scum between the two.

Remember that he only mentioned me ONCE during the entirety of Day 1.

Why does there HAVE to be scum between Rai and I?

He said that he suspected Rai due to the interaction between him and I when Rai entered the game, but he never says anything about me except in his opening substantial post on Day 1.



In Post 444, he gives another substance-filled post. But he's not going to vote Rai! All the suspicion and no vote?

My oh my, shifting wagon.

I'm not voting Rai because I don't have a solid case in any form on him. I am almost certain that he is scum, but I cant just say "he's scum, vote him!"

Quite a bit of fence sitting, don't cha think?


He is...

I am strongly in favour of a Rai lynch
Strongly against a xRx, Amished, CC.C lynch
I'm also strongly against a VPB lynch, but after Goma I dont trust myself on that one :p

But absolutely nothing about myself, the second most suspicious person to him supposedly!



In Post 462, he states

I dont believe you to be scum VPB, just as much as I dont believe Amished and Rek are scum.

However, I was pertty sure you were town in Goma too and look where that lead us X_X

Reck follows this post with

dram, what about Starbuck?

To which dramonic replies:

She is a good scum alternative in my mind if Rai flips town, but I doubt they'd be scum together.

He says this but still has not even posted a case on me!

He also finally votes for Rai in the same post as this quote and a few posts down finally gives a sort of case on Rai...

1- The bandwagon vote on Starbuck reeked. You dont just vote without reading the whole game first, even in a RVS.
2- Blows up my interactions to try to make them scummy (oh noes, I used an emoticon!)
3- Says he's suspicious of CC.C but votes dev (with a weeeeak case)

4- Gut feeling.
5- Spleen feeling.
6- oesophagus feeling.

He was against a Baltar lynch earlier (I mean, seriously, who in their right mind is against lynching Gaius Baltar! =P)and completely flips it around here...

I reckon you could probably just lynch me now then.

Last Words, if I am to be lynched: I believe the scum is more than likely among Raivann, Starbuck, Anon and VPB.

yes, my opinion on you changed VP. I dont recall you being so "gung-oh"

He mentions me again by name, but still absolutely nothing by means of a case.

And all of a sudden he pulls Anon out of the blue.

[Starbuck]

My case against Dramonic

1. It seems like he just trying to seem like he's contributing and scumhunting, when he's really not.
2. He's still hung up on Raivann's entrance into the game being scummy, when his own entrance was at page 9.
3. He mentions me as scum multiple times. Only once during all of Day 1 and a couple times during Day 2, but NEVER provides a case.
4. He was damn sure that Hell was scum. It very much feels to me as bussing.

Vote: dramonic

[Starbuck]

Amished, he's already at L-1.

[Starbuck]

Overall you're really passive aggressive. You only attack when being attacked.

LoL, catch up with the game plx.

[Starbuck]

And I still have Scumbuck feelings. But then again, Starbuck knows all about my dirty feelings towards her =P

How creative....."Scumbuck"....too bad I'm NOT.

Still waiting for that case.

Btw, meta is not an answer.




So Anon, you are voting for me based on my meta, but not anything based on what has gone on here? This seems very opportunistic to me.

Do you have any other suspicions or are you going to continue to tunnel?

[Starbuck]

Vote xRECKONERx

for not paying attention to his scum kills.

[Starbuck]

Anon, what are your thoughts now?
Is it still me that you are looking at?
Town, what are your thoughts?

[Starbuck]

That's the same question I've had all game.

Reck has relied on meta for this whole game, but has no case on me based on this game.

[Starbuck]

Did anyone notice the last vote count from yesterday?

3 people voted, but 5 votes went out...

Devestation: 5 (Amished, xRECKONERx, VP Baltar)

Reck has an extra vote, and if VP is Vanilla that means Amished did too?

[Starbuck]

Vote: Amished

[Starbuck]

Unvote

Then.

[Starbuck]

He doesn't.

Let's remember at the beginning of the game, he called me town, then called me scum. I should really do a re-read and see if he switched back to calling me town anytime after the beginning of the game.

[Starbuck]

Start us off then Reck.

[Starbuck]

Reck.. already claimed.

I'm just a vanilla townie.

So quick to come in and save him Amished, I wanted Reck to claim to make sure that he claimed the same thing that he claimed earlier in the day.

I am now suspicious of you for not seeing this and not yielding to it.

[Starbuck]

Town Backup. I took over for the cop when they died. I didn't receive any results they did though.

I didn't get an investigation last night due to the mod cutting the night short by a day because last I knew night started when the mod locked the thread. He has yet to respond to my PM about this, and pretty much screwed the town on an investigation last night.

The night before that I investigated Anon and he is innocent. I also breadcrumbed this in my first post at the beginning of yesterday.

This is why I didn't want to massclaim yet. I wanted the mod to get back to me first, but if I hold out, I'm scummy and Anon is already gunning for me.

[Starbuck]

*bump so the topic stops being weird*

Also, the day ended, it was pretty clear that the "bunch of hippies" comment was the last post for the day; why didn't you send your investigation in then?

I guess you guys didn't read my sig. I was V/LA over the holiday weekend due to friends being in town. I wasn't anywhere near my computer.

[Starbuck]

Anon, what are your thoughts now?
Is it still me that you are looking at?
Town, what are your thoughts?

.. This is your breadcrumb?

Oh, I get it, first word going downwards. "Anon is town".

Since you like breadcrumbs, did you breadcrumb your real role early on? Or was it just after you became the cop?

I did not breadcrumb the role. It was just after I became cop.

[Starbuck]

I've been a backup the whole game, but it wouldn't come into play unless the primary role (i.e. CC.com) was killed. So basically up until CC.com died, I was more or less a VT.

[Starbuck]

Soo..... why didn't you breadcrumb before your lone result?

Why should I have when our cop was still alive and possibly give away my role as a backup?

In my eyes, even if I died as an NK, that was one more night the cop got results. I did not receive any of the results that cc.com did. I started off brand spankin new.

[Starbuck]

Yes, I become the PR.

[Starbuck]

Anon, Raivann is saying there might be only two scum: me and Hellnfire. This is stupid, though, since I was the one who used my doublevote to hammer him.

This is a PRIME EXAMPLE of WIFOM.

[Starbuck]

I'm thinking of balance here when I say that to support a town backup role, a scum double voter would make sense.

[Starbuck]

Or we don't know what the other Town role is.

You've been WIFOMing it up all game.

[Starbuck]

I will not support a lynch on Anon.

[Starbuck]

I'm going to die tonight, and we got screwed out of our investigation last night. So I have no other information other than Anon is town.

Vote: Raivann

[Starbuck]

Nice OMGUS Rai. You would say that my claim is too convenient.

What "suspicion"? The only person who has consistently suspected me all game has been Reck.



And Amished definitely sounds like pissed off scum, imho.




I've prodded our mod, so hopefully he gets in here soon. <3Kise<3

[Starbuck]

I investigated Amished last night.


That guy is scumz!

Vote: Amished

[Starbuck]

Amished, you don't have to be so rude.

[Starbuck]

If Night 4 hadn't been so short and I was able to get my investigation in, it would have been on Amished.