Open 219: Neighborhood Watch (Game Over)

[don_johnson]

did anyone notice we've already lost a town powerole?

maybe rvs should end here and now.

vote: sleepless assasin

for the obvious reasons of trying to pack in an FoS on his scumbuddy(i'm looking at you confid), a bandwagon vote(primate), a lame attempt at buddying me, and an AtE(smilie) all in one tiny post.

discuss.

[don_johnson]

What difference does that make?

just seemed odd that noone noticed. i think the "difference" is obvious. no opinion on my case?

[don_johnson]

okay. don't freak out. but.

at some point before the end of the day our hider should claim. DO NOT CLAIM YET. it is my understanding of the role that hider dies if they hide behind scum, no? so better to be out in the open and verbalizing targets. agree/disagree?

[don_johnson]

mafia trades a goon on day 2 in order to take out the hider. watchers targets are narrowed down greatly. watchers don't need to claim to engineer a lynch if they are good at building cases and whatnot. we are in a low number game, using every resource available to us is an optimal strategy imo. a dead hider on day 2 does us no good without a claimed target or a watcher seeing it. with three goons there is a good potential for us to end up with a nk'd player and a dead hider and nothing to show for it, whereas if hider claims we most certainly reap benefits. if mafia chooses not to kill hider, then we have a confirmed townie. either way, it seems to swing the numbers in favor of town. also, an early claim becomes uncounterable late game. scum would be bold to counterclaim the hider on day 1, no?

[don_johnson]

What I'm trying to do is move the discussion forward so that scumhunting can actually begin

really? is

that

what you're trying to do?

[don_johnson]

Vote Count

don_johnson (2) - ConfidAnon, Thief
guy0 (2) - Empking, Beloved Princess
Primate (2) - Chronopie, Sleepless Assassin
Thief (1) - Primate
Beloved Princess (1) - OpposedForce
Sleepless Assassin (1) - don_johnson

Not Voting (2) - guy0, Pomegranate

Fixed?

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is

Monday, May 31, 2010 at 8:00:00 PM CDT

.
If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

I agree with hider not claiming for the stated above reasons because there is a chance of 2/10 of actually hitting scum (excluding the hider himself).

actually, 11 players alive, 10 after the lynch.

scum lynch: 2/9 chance of hider dieing with no benefit.

town lynch: 3/9 chance of hider dieing with no benefit.

but i'm not going to argue this anymore. the watchers do add a variable which i can't calculate. let's get some more SA votes.

guy0: how's that "moving the discussion forward" thing workin' out for ya?

[don_johnson]

i must be an idiot.

i thought i was engaging in discussion. apparently i am "pointing fingers"? you can clarify that at any point in time.

imo, how to get the most use out of our hider is not a "trivial matter". the game may very well hinge on it. but i digress, as you say you'd rather talk about something else. so, what do you want to talk about? howsabout you flesh out this "finger pointing" thing?

[don_johnson]

did anyone notice we've already lost a town powerole?

maybe rvs should end here and now.

vote: sleepless assasin

for the obvious reasons of trying to pack in an FoS on his scumbuddy(i'm looking at you confid), a bandwagon vote(primate), a lame attempt at buddying me, and an AtE(smilie) all in one tiny post.

discuss.

Here you accuse Sleepless

yes. i am accusing him of a suspect rvs vote. i am moving the game forward.

What I'm trying to do is move the discussion forward so that scumhunting can actually begin

really? is

that

what you're trying to do?

Here you accuse me with 8 words and no backing

no. i asked you a question. it was a bit rhetorical, but its still a question. you said you are trying to move discussion forward. and then you ended the post.

i

started discussion.

i

moved us out of the rvs.

i

laid down a vote which has yet to be responded to. what exactly have you done? oh, that's right, you've accused me of fingerpointing. maybe you need a dictionary.

Vote Count

Beloved Princess (2) - guy0, OpposedForce
don_johnson (2) - ConfidAnon, Thief
guy0 (2) - Empking, Beloved Princess
Primate (2) - Chronopie, Sleepless Assassin
Sleepless Assassin (1) - don_johnson
Thief (1) - Primate

Not Voting (1) - Pomegranate

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is

Monday, May 31, 2010 at 8:00:00 PM CDT

.
If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

I agree with hider not claiming for the stated above reasons because there is a chance of 2/10 of actually hitting scum (excluding the hider himself).

actually, 11 players alive, 10 after the lynch.

scum lynch: 2/9 chance of hider dieing with no benefit.

town lynch: 3/9 chance of hider dieing with no benefit.

but i'm not going to argue this anymore. the watchers do add a variable which i can't calculate. let's get some more SA votes.

guy0: how's that "moving the discussion forward" thing workin' out for ya?

Here, after an incorrect informal vote count, you state the obvious followed by a repetition of the accusation on me. I might add that this post was made 4 hours after your last one. Are you too anxious and need to stay on this site all day?

vote count isn't mine. and no. it wasn't obvious. i was correcting the incorrect math posted by OF. after a lynch, the player number will be down to 9, not 10. i finished school and have a week before i am back to work full time. i check in on ms frequently when i am around my computer. post 58 and 59 are just a minute apart, and just over an hour after post 56. does that make you "anxious"?

In terms of other things you’ve said that bother me that are not related to random accusations.

okay. don't freak out. but.

at some point before the end of the day our hider should claim. DO NOT CLAIM YET. it is my understanding of the role that hider dies if they hide behind scum, no? so better to be out in the open and verbalizing targets. agree/disagree?

Here you ask hider to claim and verbalize their target, this netting a two for one NK for scum, bad idea of course.

theres a reason the game has more townies than scum. cracking a few eggs is how omelettes are made. also, everyone seems to be ignoring the dynamic aspects of the game. would you like me to continue to flesh out my thought process? i was under the impression that you didn't want to have

this

discussion.

i must be an idiot.

i thought i was engaging in discussion. apparently i am "pointing fingers"? you can clarify that at any point in time.

imo, how to get the most use out of our hider is not a "trivial matter". the game may very well hinge on it. but i digress, as you say you'd rather talk about something else. so, what do you want to talk about? howsabout you flesh out this "finger pointing" thing?

Obviously discussing the hider is not an unimportant thing, but it was discussed ENOUGH for the time being. There is no need to continue harping on something that we all understand needs to be discussed more when it becomes more relevant (ie when the hider chooses to claim for whatever reason, or it becomes apparent that the hider needs to claim as per the wanting of the masses etc etc).

if you don't want to talk about it, then stop.

You continue to use sarcasm afterwards for some reason I cannot fathom and then ask me to re-explain that which I just mentioned a few posts ago, and use quotes around finger pointing for …. Ummm …. Dramatic effect? I don’t know.

again. show me the "finger pointing". if your definition of "finger pointing" is the same as "voting", then i am guilty. so by "finger pointing", did you mean voting? and by "people", did you mean "SA"?

[don_johnson]

You continue to use sarcasm afterwards for some reason I cannot fathom and then ask me to re-explain that which I just mentioned a few posts ago, and use quotes around finger pointing for …. Ummm …. Dramatic effect? I don’t know

quotes are used to avoid miscommunication. by putting quotes around the term that you used to describe my actions, we can avoid pointless discussions of misrepresentation. i.e. the quotes are there to show that that is the exact wording you used. my issue is that i don't think my actions can be described as "fingerpointing". so i want you to clarify exactly what that means. as of 58, i don't feel like you're explaining it well at all.

[don_johnson]

unvote

i approve of post 66

vote: pomegranate

now we need to see how they feel about each other.

[don_johnson]

competing bandwagons are good for town. the silence at L-3 is a good sign.

SA: my statement was in regards to seeing how pom/guy0 feel about each other.

[don_johnson]

So 20 hours of no responses is considered silence now?

not just now. i am pretty sure "no responses" is always going to be defined as "silence". do you enjoy arguing semantics?

I don't think silence at -3 or competing bandwagons this early are good things.

why not?

[don_johnson]

That said, I'm not sure why you consider the silence a good thing over activity, mind if I ask you why that is?

i think we are speaking on tangent planes. silence itself is not "good", but in my experience scum will often respond to pressure with avoidance. hence, the fact that two players were ignoring the pressure raises the odds that at least one of them is scum. however, i was unaware of pom's v/la, and as guy has used in his defense, time is relative. so we'll have to see.

Competing wagons make for slower games without the big single topic for everyone to debate about, and whilst they debatedly give more info I think the speed is more of an asset.

with this i wholeheartedly disagree i think competing wagons are good, and i think speed is a detriment. now, there does come a time when a day can be "too long", but we're on page four so i don't see a problem with the game being slowed. tbh, i don't even agree that competing wagons "slow" the game. but now we're talking theory and semantics. in any case. i think we disagree, but i don't think its relevant.

[don_johnson]

Vote Count

guy0 (4) - Empking, Beloved Princess, Thief, don_johnson
Pomegranate (2) - Sleepless Assassin, Primate
Primate (2) - Chronopie, Pomegranate
Sleepless Assassin (2) - OpposedForce, ConfidAnon

Not Voting (1) - guy0

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch.


The deadline for Day 1 is

Monday, May 31, 2010 at 8:00:00 PM CDT

.
If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

Guy you said you want to hear from Pom but besides her you would vote Primate. I looked in your ISO and I see no reason for you to be suspicious of Primate.

Guy's latest post is also game-theory fluffiness.

^^ this. 100%.

unvote, vote: guy0

sorry pom. i wanted to even the wagons there and see what happened. didn't realize the v/la, and i don't find

anything

scummy about your play so far. guy was oppurtunistic when the wagons evened. you took the high road.

[don_johnson]

a)

unvote

b) where did you hide last night?

[don_johnson]

Yes I do place pressure-claim votes fairly often. Pressure votes are separate from lynch votes. Pressure is placed on someone under some suspicion, lynch is on someone I'm fairly sure is scum.

I would have left it as a lynch vote if I were unhappy with the claim, given Iso. But Hider makes sense given iso, thus the unvote.

so you put someone at L-1 and asked for a claim... for pressure?

[don_johnson]

^^ this is not coming together for me. a quick reread and iso might help. back later.

[don_johnson]

meh. chrono's iso is short, but i don't see scum motivation for his moves.

unvote, vote: pomegranate

on the other hand 127 reads like mashmallowy fluff.

[don_johnson]

i want to do a full reread in the morning. i'm kind of along the lines where guy-o is going and i started to iso empking, but his posts need to be read in context. i want to look at bp as well. pom's avoidance here is noted. i don't remember her being a "one-line" poster.

[don_johnson]

i want to do a full reread in the morning. i'm kind of along the lines where guy-o is going and i started to iso empking, but his posts need to be read in context. i want to look at bp as well. pom's avoidance here is noted. i don't remember her being a "one-line" poster.

How

much meta do you have on me? We played about one game together, IIRC and you replaced out. I just can't remember what game it was.

i don't think i've actually played a game with just you. you were under the avvy "plumegranate" if memory serves. i have played with plum and i obviously can't be sure you're not the same person, but as i understand it the two of you are rommates. in any case, when we did play(and i don't remember replacing out) your posts were much longer and thought out, though i could be confusing you with plum(if she even exists).

in any case, are you "attacking" me here, or genuinely questioning for reference? i.e. are you denying that you are not a "one-line" tyype of poster?

you may need to read this twice. i think i even confused myself.

[don_johnson]

i'll

vote: SA

for now. i stilhaven't reread. have a talent show to attend and then work, but i'll try and flesh something out this weekend. would like thief's take.

[don_johnson]

i'll be gone tomorrow with the family. post soon after.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote pomegranate

confid would be number two here. i hate voting him because i seem to be always wrong in regards to his alignment. SA's response is town here and i don't see much of a case on primate. i'll iso bp.

[don_johnson]

sorry, hun. i don't go against my instincts without evidence. now,if you can make it work i may be willing to trade my vote for some pictures...

[don_johnson]

Basically, I really like the post that Plum made when she was pretending to be Pomegranate. I don't think that scum would make that post.

Or maybe I'm just confusing the warm and fuzzy feelings of love with the warm and fuzzy feelings of towniness.

plum is the "older" sister. joined almost a year before pom. hence, more experience. null tell at best, but in reading the post in question i would like to know why you "don't think scum would make that post." claiming "damned if i do, damned if i don't" is an excellent strategy for scum.

empking: are you going to expand on your read?

[don_johnson]

either way, its null-tell at best. the post subscribes to the same philosophy regardless of

who

posted it. that said: what do

you

think of bp?

[don_johnson]

^^ what did you think of pom/plum's post?

what do you think of bp using it as a towntell?

i agree about SA. i am still waiting for someone voting/endorsing primate to tell me why.

in my experience, empking is almost a policy lynch. i'd like them to speak up more, but i doubt they will. i'd be fine going that route, but the chances of hitting scum are as good as random. the vote is an L-2 vote. not inherently scummy at this point imo. i'd like to look at the pom/bp tandem a bit more here.

[don_johnson]

v/la doesn't get one off the hook. don't see the problem with primate's advice, but whateverz. if pom returns with anything resembling a protown post i'll put confid to L-1.

[don_johnson]

DJ: D1 thought he was absolutely town, but he basically lurked the entirety of d2, which worries me, I'd like one of these from him.

i don't feel that i lurked, but i am going to reread and post today. prime suspect atm is pomegranate.

[don_johnson]

unvote: pom

need to reorganize my thoughts now...

[don_johnson]

claim is fine, but set-up is open. i'd like to get some thoughts in thread before a hammer. this wagons kind of quick.

[don_johnson]

seriously? thanks for making my read much easier.

vote: primate

[don_johnson]

i love it. definitely the wrong move, but the primate lynch rocked.

way to go emp and confid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[don_johnson]

bp: did you purposefully breadcrumb watcher? pom was literally my last choice.

[don_johnson]

don't be sore, thief. we have yet to here from guy0. he took a gamble and it could have just as easily won you the game as it did lose it for you. not sure who you're calling moron, but when someone writes ICU down the side of a post its not odd to think its a watcher crumb. in this set-up its actually a good strategy for a vanilla to breadcrumb watcher. it might be a genius way to draw a nightkill the night before lylo. this set-up is extremely difficult for scum so i'll take the win anyway it comes.

[don_johnson]

Did you read my quote? Pomegranate CLAIMED watcher.

Also, I'm confirming that

IF

I'm the other watcher, I didn't watch Theif.

i am quite clever. i beat you.

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

we beat you. i really liked my scumbuddies this time around. i think they both did very well. like i said, this is an intensely town favored set-up. the night start is a plus, but it can be swingy. i would consider it an honor to scum it up with either confid or empking again.

[don_johnson]

no worries thief. you played well and it is always frustrating to lose when you do so. i'm still waiting for guy0's explanation.