Mini 1006: Random Mafia Game Over!

[AGar]

mrifnoc\

[AGar]

Oh hi quadz

[AGar]

Negatory, it's Iris.

And my sig claim was from when I was drunk and claiming in a game off-site

[AGar]

Negatory, it's Iris.

Iris, what blasphemy xD Boxer is the best Terran player the world has ever seen!

This is true. But Iris is still a baller, several years after his "peak". BoxeR is admittedly nothing more than T1's sideshow to get people to come out to games wondering if he'll play a set (which is admittedly awesome still. I mean, he nuked Killer XD).

Anyways,

Yo.

VOTE: Quadz08

Because you were scum last time, and I like to take my chances.

[AGar]

Also - Gandalf - any idea what game you read? A lot of people seem to read my games o.O

[AGar]

If the mod modkills the mod, who mods and modkills?

Hmm... Not sure about the vezok claim either. Could be true, could be a scum bluff, could be a lot of things...

I guess we'll need to see more from him. But I don't like it either.

VOTE: vezokpiraka

[AGar]

Lol, there can be a lone mason XD

Anyways, vezok's claim was interesting, maybe a bit thought inspiring.

Also, found out I needed to unvote XD skimmed that rule My bad.

Exe's quick dissipation of his suspicion of vezok is interesting.

[AGar]

Lool. I did too. XD

And did you read the re-roll too?

[AGar]

Ah ok, was an alright game.

[AGar]

Hmmm... I really don't like the interaction between Vezok and Exe. Vezok claims, Exe pressures him, Vezok reacts with OMGUS, Exe unvotes and says "Not scum.", someone else votes for Exe and Vezok questions the vote..

VOTE: Exe

[AGar]

I think you'll find that such an interaction between a different player and I would indeed point to the connection you are suggesting. This time, however, the conclusion is questionable at best.

This is unnerving. I'm confident in my vote right now.

[AGar]

@xvart - I did vote after the fact that vezok questioned Espeonage's vote because quite frankly, that's the only vote vezok questioned. And vezok pretty much attacked the vote, not questioned it for reasoning.

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Exe

Want to put some thought in that?

The reason that I'm parking my vote on Exe right now is because of Exe's "clearing" of vezok. I still don't like it, and I don't like the fact that the two have basically come to each other's aids.

[AGar]

Hmmm..

vezok's post is interesting. Keeping that filed away for later if I need it.

[AGar]

I missed Exe's claim. I'd just like to point out that claims in this game are worthless people. Any player can simply look up a role for pro-town alignment and be like "LOL I'M THIS ROLE GUYZZZZ"

[AGar]

@quadz - I'm withholding that because I basically lose the leverage I have if he eventually finds out what I'm getting at.

vezok vs. Exe. Scum vs. scum flailing is fun to watch.

[AGar]

Alright. XVart kill doesn't surprise me.

There was something I had hoped to address at the end of D1, but I arrived after the lynch had taken place, and twilight had ended as well.

I am a Town Paranoid Gun Owner.

As PGO, any role that targets me dies. I don't have a say in this, I don't choose who dies and who doesn't. It just happens.

I am claiming with the hopes of avoiding accidentally killing any pro-town PRs. Basically, don't aim for me. This is the only reason I find this claim worthwhile.

There is an upside to this though. Mafia has to trade one-for-one to kill me now. If we're in 3:9 (which I think may be the likely scenario), then they can take a chance tonight and hope that their last remaining player can get through the rest of the game and avoid being lynched. If we're in 2:10, as long as I don't get lynched, the town gets a happily ever after at worst, as the moment mafia tries to kill me, they die.

Re: Exe lynch. It happened fast, but it worked. Espeonage lucked out in getting killed as the Jester.

@quadz - Why do you feel that vezok and Exe were separate alignments?

Also, a light suspicion of quadz has popped up for me. The hesitation to hammer could be a scumbuddy who knows his partner is a super-saint. Very light, but still something worth noting.

[AGar]

Apparently my PGO claim went unnoticed.

[AGar]

I think we should lynch AGar now. Best case, he's scum. Worst case, we eliminate something that

will

get in the way in a LyLo situation.

You know, I thought about fake claiming. But it would've backfired in the end. Someone would've eventually strolled in and pushed lynch-all-liars once I had to admit I didn't have a power that was beneficial to the town.

The optimal town play for PGO is claiming. Unfortunately, it's such a shitty, bastard role, the optimal play is also claiming it falsely as scum.

Think about it. If I play extremely pro-town, a potential doc is likely to protect me. Boom. Dead. If I play slightly scummy, a potential cop is possibly going to investigate me. Boom. Dead. Either end of the spectrum, a power role will go after you. Either end of the spectrum, I will end up hurting the town if I don't claim this.

So why was this town motivated if scum also get a very good benefit out of it? Note my timing. I didn't claim as early as possible. I waited. I was tempted to wait until twilight for tonight as well, but I was afraid I would miss it again (work schedule blows).

Honestly, PGO is a bastard role, and it's impossibly difficult to deal with. Damned if you do, damned if you don't type thing.

If the town agrees to lynch me, I'm not going to fight it. I realize that I am a liability no matter what. I tried to downplay some of that liability by the claim. However, I would like to ask that my lynch be pushed back as far as possible and the town takes plenty of time to look at other players, so that you have something to go off of on D3. We made out well with lynching Exe D1, but the speed of the lynch did us no favors for the following days. We need information. A quicklynch on me as well is only going to hurt the town and aid the mafia in going by unnoticed. Policy lynching me is also going to result in no reliable vote data from today. At least take every other step possible to set up for successful days following.

[AGar]

VOTE: vezokpiraka

[AGar]

Claim is useless, but #142 makes me confident in a scumread on quadz.

Any opposition?

[AGar]

However, I would like some explanation on your vote, there.

Didn't realize the second part referred to me. Sorry.

I voted vezok for generally disapproving of his play. It's not helpful, it's borderline active lurking, and I'm still curious as to whether or not there was a connection between him and Exe.

Quadz, it's time to claim.

[AGar]

I'll wait for the claim.

And Zaj, I was hoping to garner a reaction from vezok, that's why I didn't include the reasoning.

[AGar]

Just a thought:

Vezok could be a mafia-aligned vanilla townie...

[AGar]

@Agar, why didn't you claim first thing day 1?

I think that claiming outright on D1 is the dead wrong play for PGO. It derails discussion and moves the focus away from the game at hand into people wasting their entire time discussing whether the claim is genuine or scum-motivated. By waiting until after a full day of scumhunting has been done, people can form an opinion on my alignment off of my D1 behavior and generally make a post or two about the claim and then move on with the game, and chasing down suspects based off of D1.

[AGar]

In other news, thread needs more vezok votes. He's reeking of scum.

@MOD: Votecount, please?

[AGar]

I am.

[AGar]

Provide them?

[AGar]

Offsite meta usually doesn't translate well. Thus, I'm uninclined to believe that the meta is appropriate at this time.

Besides, solely meta is a terribly weak reason to convict or acquit someone. Meta can be changed at the drop of a hat.

[AGar]

TNM - It's ongoing, but reading the PGO page (honestly had no effing clue what it was) and thinking about the role, yes it is an optimum scum-falseclaim. But that's why I delayed the claim. I thought about an out-and-out claim at the beginning, but decided not to, because I thought it would completely derail D1.

Mitsuru has the right idea. If you find me scummy, lynch me, otherwise, let's lynch vezok.

His defense of himself in 186 is pure WIFOM.

[AGar]

After I die can you get quadz lynched please?
kthxbye.

Any good reason why?

[AGar]

After I die can you get quadz lynched please?
kthxbye.

Any good reason why?

He is scum. Is that a good reason?

Mmm. If I knew it to be true.

[AGar]

That's not what I meant.
I fyou see that I flip town you'll see that I was right and we gotta lynch quadz.

No it won't, and no we don't. We'll lynch whoever is scummiest.

[AGar]

So you lynch the scummiest instead of lynching scums . Way to go.

Hmm. Last I checked, usually 9 times out of 10, the scummiest is the scum. So I'm gonna go with that.

[AGar]

Someone who has only confirmed.

[AGar]

Why quadz? Vezok is a better lynch.

[AGar]

I think Zajnet is scum. He's been hopping onto the largest bandwagon that shows up, stayed off of the Exe bandwagon, barely acknowledged it or Exe himself, and has been professing vezok's townie-ness the entire game, with no reasoning to back such claims up, and has been generally unhelpful and lurky.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zajnet

This game is suffering from inactivity all around.

@MOD: Are several people due for prods? Because it feels like they should be.

[AGar]

Anyone object to ME dropping the hammer?

Zaj's recent bandwagon hop makes sense.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vezokpiraka

I could wait forever while everyone else comes around, or we could just get this done with. Either way, vezok is scummy and likely scum. Boom. 5/9 say yes, that's good enough for a majority.

[AGar]

Sorry Erg0. That's a bummer.

In other news:

I think AGar could be scum. PGO is the perfect scum claim, and some of his reasoning for his claim is rather fuzzy. Zajnet is also on my scumdar, for reasons mentioned previously.

What exactly is fuzzy about it? I thought I highlighted everything. And I agree that a policy lynch may be necessary, but take some time to look into options, so when I flip town, the rest of you aren't running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

[AGar]

millar - on what basis can we believe your claim? The setup is completely random. The mod has given no indication that we could or could not have only one lone mason, but alignment can also be separated (although that would be bastard. You're a mason - but you're scum! No, you aren't a neighbor, you're a MASON!).

We've already established that claims are all but worthless. Why would you openly claim without provocation? What back-up do you have? Any? Masons usually leave breadcrumbs so a partner can back up a claim, or at least so I've seen.

[AGar]

I don't understand a doc claiming either. I don't like the play of millar.

VOTE: Millar

[AGar]

Has anyone ever seen unconfirmed masons before or are they as a rule confirmed town?

If the role is "mason" I believe they're usually confirmed. Unconfirmed masons are known as neighbors. But this game is all random and such and that part of the setup process is unknown. :/

[AGar]

Here's something that's skated under the radar (I think due to millar's claim) that I just thought about after a brief re-read: AGar's speedy hammer. Thoughts on this from anyone? I feel like it was rushed, not quite to the point of a quicklynch, but it certainly robbed us of discussion time.

When Mitsuru was going to hammer, you didn't object, only stating that vezok was only at L-2. So why now are you going to try and pin me up over hammering a few minutes later? Contradiction much?

Millar's claim isn't really something we can analyze at this point. If he acts scummy, we'll have to lynch him, but trying to out the doc is not enough basis to lynch someone.

Quadz has acted scummy, has had things indicative of him potentially being scum now for a while. This is just another. Let's lynch him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: quadz08

[AGar]

Ummm... I didn't object because

it wasn't the hammer

.

You didn't make that clear. It looked like you said "Oh hey, it would be cool, but he's at L-2." If you had objected, you would've made note because Mitsuru wasn't the only player with a vote. I took your not saying "No, a hammer isn't cool," as in you being fine with a lynch at that point.

[AGar]

With Mitsuru threatening the idea, it would be good to clarify that you don't approve of a hammer. Conciseness is pro-town.

[AGar]

quadz. You started the day saying you find me scummy for my PGO claim. That got shot down. Millar claims Mason. You try and underhandedly slip suspicion on him. That got shot down as well, for the most part. Now, you're reverting back to me, saying that my hammer yesterday is now scummy.

You're looking like scum doing anything to try and push a mislynch right now.

[AGar]

As I mentioned, I did a re-read, and it stood out. I find it hard to swallow that's it's scummy to point out scummy behavior. Sorry if the order I presented it in wasn't in keeping with the order of posts, or whatever organizational system your brain is using.

And as to your accusation of "underhandedly slipping suspicion on" millar, I'd like you to go back and re-read. I have been pretty steadfast in my belief that it is a

null-tell

, and merely stupid, not scummy.

This doesn't read much like you steadfastly believe it to be null:

Millar, your claim concerns me. I don't know how likely it is that more than one mason popped up. Also, why would you claim mason at this point anyway? Also, it is definitely possible that you are scum, despite being a mason.

Also, is it possible that you have roles which were given without their complementary role? (i.e., only one mason, or a firefighter with no arsonist?)

Depends on the role.

This makes me doubly unsure. *sigh*

I want to think that this is a fake-claim, but I don't know what it would gain. That makes me doubt my first instinct.

It reads to me like you're setting yourself up for an opportunity when a wagon forms, but also with a fallback if things go awry - "Well I always doubted that it was fake to begin with!"

[AGar]

After thinking about it, I'm not sure if it's so much scummy as it is just dumb. Pretty much a null-tell, to me.

This was my very next post, AGar. At first I was unsure, then I thought about it, and realized that it was dumb no matter what alignment millar is. My perspective on that has never changed, once I made my decision.

And gandalf, I still haven't heard you explain why you think I'm scummy. You've voted me twice now, with no justification. Care to fix that?

You still leave a door wide open with the "I'm not sure if.." statement. You aren't selling me on this point right now, I'm comfortable with my vote.

[AGar]

V/LA August 6th through 8th. I won't be posting until late Sunday night.

[AGar]

I was hoping to get people talking again. Nobody had posted anything (outside of declaring V/LA) for a full day.

Yeah, well it didn't work. Try harder.

This game is suffering from major activity fallouts. C'mon people, get active. Seriously. Post suspicions, votes, reasons.

[AGar]

There was a nurse. There has to be a doctor. And the job of a doctor is to guess who the mafia will attack.

No. There doesn't.

The roles are random, which I'm assuming as meaning that MafiaSSK rolled alignments via random.org, and then went to the page linked, gave each role a number and rolled roles via random.org again.

We had a jester hammer a mafia super-saint. This game is about as bastard as it gets.

Zajnet is town-read, imo.

quadz is better lynch.

Gandalf is jumping up the scum-reads very quickly with his insistence that there has to be a doctor.

[AGar]

What's scummy about that, AGar?

His persistence to discuss the setup rather than the game at hand. It's promoting discussion that is not scumhunting, rather just fluff that can't be analyzed and gives us no leads. Serves two purposes for scum: 1) Town does not scumhunt and is scrambling as deadline approaches. 2) Scum does not have to commit to reads in theory discussions.

[AGar]

Zaj, you might wanna claim soon, I do see a player who might hammer.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gandalf

[AGar]

The Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass?

[AGar]

Wait, what the fuck just happened? Zajnet got out of a lynch by completely avoiding any case against him, and sheeping a case that had already been stated by AGar?

QFT. While I understand and agree with the case on gandalf, I can't believe mitsuru and AGar would just jump ship like that, after Zajnet sheeped his way through his defense. I simply do not understand.

I wasn't going to vote Zajnet. Period. I stated that. RTFT people.

Gandalf looks scummy, and apparently no one else notices that you are atm, so I'll go with the wagon that will lynch scum rather than just poke scum.

quadz rolefishing in 342 is bad.

In other news, where did people get the idea that I would be for a Zajnet wagon? All my vote switch really amounts to is a switch from a vote on one scummy player to another scummy player.

@MOD: Zajnet is voting for himself and gandalf? I don't think that's right.

[AGar]

I don't believe it. Looks like a cop-out and manipulation of prior information to me.

I'm keeping my vote parked.

[AGar]

The main case against me is the setup speculation, and the fact that I'm the doc perfectly explains the reason for that as far as I'm aware. So unless someone has anything else to say against me, I don't see how the case is at all valid any longer.

Because setup speculation is still pro-scum and not pro-town, and you're not confirmed to be a town doc.

The case still stands - your behavior matches anti-town behavior at best, but more seemingly pro-scum behavior.

That and your claim still reeks of foul fake claim.

[AGar]

What do you have to say for yourself Gandalf?

[AGar]

I don't like the setup of "we have to go after Zaj tomorrow," but other than that, I'm not opposed to you hammering. I will not be pushing the Zaj wagon unless I see good reason to.

[AGar]

Echo echo echo echo.

I have a small, small feeling that we might be in 5:1.

Need to think more about this right now, but my suspicions heavily lie on Quadz atm.

[AGar]

I like the train of thought from Mitsuru.

My 5:1 suspicion was based on me being a PGO and no kill happening last night, but MK's claim and targets provide a better explanation for the lack of a kill last night.

My conclusion on 2:10 was based on statistics of Mini Normals, forgetting that this is a Mini Theme. Gah. Plays like a Mini Normal, only thing that makes it a Mini Theme is the random factor.

Zaj not getting a track in last night was no bueno, but shit happens. :/

We are in MYLO. I personally think we might as well no-lynch without 100% confirmation that Quadz is scum, but that's just me. Definitely want to hear more from Quadz and Millar today before anything though.

[AGar]

I'd prefer not to give out assignments, as if Quadz is scum, he could easily use his ability and manipulate what we see, no?

Also, if a bus driver switches a tracker's target, does the tracker get the result that his person targeted whoever the switched person targeted, or does he know if his target changed? I would assume he doesn't know, but not sure.

[AGar]

Awesome.

[AGar]

I think we should just lynch quadz and go from there. If we lose because Mitsuru is manipulative scum, gg.

Really? That's all you have to say?

[AGar]

Evenin', all.

I'm reading the thread now, but I would like Zajnet and AGar to post a quick summary of the major events in this game for me, preferably from memory.

Uh... fuck off?

Read the thread yourself?

Sorry, I ain't posting a recap for you. The thread isn't even 20 pages long, and half of the posts are "Oh hey, I'll get here soon."

If I can read up on a 94 page large normal in full, you can spare 17.

[AGar]

Hey, I'm AGar, and I clearly don't recognize an attempt to get viewpoints from certain players.

Summary of major events =/= viewpoints.

Suspicions, reads and the like are viewpoints. He will find them when he reads up.

[AGar]

#415 is flailing scum. Let's lynch him, eh guys?

[AGar]

I'm gonna say let's no lynch after further thought. We're likely in 4:2, no sense wasting a day.

I could easily see Quadz/Zaj scumteam at this point. Want to iso them both, and see how Zaj reacted to the Exe wagon.

[AGar]

VOTE: No Lynch

[AGar]

Also, quadz - your suspicion of me is entirely rooted in my PGO claim. Get a real case bro.

[AGar]

Everyone's common denominator is quadz.

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

If we're in 9:3, that means it's 3:2 and we're in LYLO. If we're in 10:2, that means it's 4:1 and we're fine.

Lynching quadz, and thus either killing off all scum or at least one scum puts us in a very good situation. We either win or guarantee ourselves a draw at best (because scum can't kill me at night without killing themselves in the process).

[AGar]

Hello?

[AGar]

Well then we're likely in 3:2 LYLO. I just can't see quadz not being scum. I dunno, just weird, that be all.

[AGar]

AGar: I went through your ISO. You have no more of a case on me than I did on you. [1]In fact, #144 is his first mention of me being scummy, [2]when he states that the following post (which followed after his PGO claim) made him “confident in a scumread” on me:

I think AGar would be a good lynch. I don't want to rush it, though, and if we can find a better lynch (obvscum, basically), then that trumps lynching AGar, obviously.

However, I would like some explanation on your vote, there.

Ummmmmm… OMGUS, much? Not to mention severe bandwagoning, seeing as how I had 3 votes on me (due to the HoS fiasco, I believe.).

[1] Fail scum is fail.

[2] Also, it was addressed that scum would be likely to try and push for my lynch when the opportunity arose.

[1] He then asks for my claim in his next post. [2] I proceed to claim, and he doesn’t mention me again until I bring up another scumtell in his speedy hammer of Vezok. [3] In post #252, he says “Quadz has acted scummy, has had things indicative of him potentially being scum now for a while. This is just another. Let's lynch him.”

[1] - No, I didn't.
[2] - You claimed busdriver, town decided to move away from your lynch. I was fine with that fact at the time. Also, again fail scum is fail.
[3] - In that post I also point out a contradiction of yours.

I feel like AGar has been pushing for my lynch, because he knows it wouldn’t be difficult. In addition, as I mentioned before, his PGO claim is, quite literally, perfect for scum in this game. If he’s not PGO, and just scum, he prevents nighttime visits. If he is PGO, and somebody thinks he’s lying, his claim combined with the extra death gives him huge townie cred. (I just realized that last part; it is different from what I’ve said before.)

Honestly, I don't think there's been a coherent case on me all game long; if there has, it's not from any living players. Correct this, pretty please.

I don’t even know how to go about scumhunting anyone else; nobody has any damn posts with content in this game. It’s pretty ridiculous how low the activity has been. I’ll do my best with the other three tomorrow (hopefully), though I don’t think I’m gonna find anything that’s more suspicious than AGar.

This is great. You keep trying to slander the PGO claim. Then you say there's no coherent case on you at all. I just re-highlighted it. Want to start reading the thread? Final paragraph is you basically saying you're going to tunnel because you can't scumhunt. You can scumhunt, you're just not trying because you're scum.

VOTE: Quadz08

[AGar]

Ugh.

Quadz, stop being scummy dammit

Actually, I just played terribad here.