New York 116 - Prozacs Large Normal - Who won?

[Stef]

Hey guys

[Stef]

Welcome Zorblag. Never played with you before Thanks for replacing, same to the other replacing players as well. Hopefully this game will start rolling soon.

[Stef]

Vote Benmage for being next in line alphabetically after the first person to be voted.

[Stef]

Meh, took the playerlist from the "Display posts by user:", didn't occur to me that some players haven't posted yet.

Also, in my rush, I forgot to bold.

Vote Anon

[Stef]

Didn't have time to read and post today. Will do so tomorrow (posting to avoid a prod)

[Stef]

Due to the prod I find myself in need to be active in both my games although I asked for V/LA in the GD topic. My fault for not mentioning it to the mod I guess.

Rereading and posting once I'm done.

[Stef]

I started making a long wall-o-text and decided to delete it as it would just end up as parroting. I will just limit myself to making a summary.

mothrax = opportunistic, only merit in his case against digi is calling out on digi not voting for his main suspect.
CCARaven4 = voted because someone told him to, using huge crap-logic in his voting pattern.
diginova = OMGUSy, overall looks like bad town.
Toon Fighter: how populist of you to have as your 3 main suspects the 3 biggest suspects of the game.

I think Raven needs votes.

unvote, Vote Raven

[Stef]

Not really. Reread my post and if you still disagree explain to me why I'm being a hypocrite.

[Stef]

Lol @ the claim. A little premature imo but nothing we can do about it now. Still hasn't changed my opinion about him just being bad town.

at the moment I don't want to commit to any bandwagon, mostly because 6 pages is not enough discussion for a first day in any game

Horrible logic. Scummy.

Because he's fence-sitting and stalling L-1... Keeping a close eye on him.

Stalling L-1? Seriously? You really think Digi should have been lynched at that stage of the game? Also, why are you mostly ignoring the claim?

Just note for myself: I don't like how many people didn't have any problems with the easy claim. Note to others: DO NOT CLAIM until you are ASKED TO (by more people, not just one). DO NOT hammer without A CLAIM.

It would be a really stupid thing to close the day right now, so for trying for an early bandwagon and lynch

First part is true, second is false, third is true. Bandwagoning this early is awesome. Lynching so early.. not so much.

@Zorblag No, his claim doesn't... even if the roleclaim is true, like you said, the allignment could go either way. I don't necessarily believe him when he says that he is town alligned...

Townie brownie.

Waiting and letting discussion develop is great. But saying "We need at least X pages before we lynch someone," sounds like scum just trying to buy time

Not quite. I'd say it looks more like fail logic. Scum doesn't like buying time D1 if they are not a major wagon (which he wasn't). It does look like you making bullshit points though. And you did say that he is scummy for trying to prevent a L-1 (thus suggesting that it should have happened) so unless you are suggesting a scum-team including both Wraith and Digi your theory is crap. You should know better and that makes me think that you do know better.

Oh, and considering plenty of players didn't contribute anything up to this point (or very little) makes a good point about us not being at a stage to lynch anyone.

Liking Anon for putting pressure on charlie. Townie Brownie

Compiling ISOs alphabetically ATM. AGar has a pro-town read from me for now.

Wait.. what? Do your arguments against him just vanish? Also, why not unvote in that post if you think he is pro-town?

Charlie is now looking seriously scummy to me right now. I'm waiting for more content too but I'm at least trying to contribute. You're avoiding questions and making excuses.

FoS: Charlie

So... you think AGar is pro-town, you think charlie is scummy, you vote for AGar and FOS Charlie? lol.

Oh my goodness. I do not like so much attention directed at me. It is probably a bad idea... Okay, I'll bone up on suspects and cases, I promise. Sometime this week, okay? You have my word, thread!

O_o

Benmage is striking me as... weird. Will have to look up some meta to see if this is his usual playstile.

The rest of the page is
Policy lynch discussion
Policy lynch discussion
Policy lynch discussion
---------------------------
@Benmage: We will discuss policy lynching if we don't find someone scummier to hang. I am against policy lynches and I don't like people who suggest them. It distracts the town, it cools down wagons and it's overall horribly bad for the town to enforce/discuss them. Same goes for Toogeloo.

Hmm...

Atm really not liking charlie, raven, agar. Oh, and tubby needs to post more:

Unvote, Vote Tubby

[Stef]

@Benmage: No, the tubby vote was a vote for him actively lurking. Far from a policy lynch, I'm sure you'll agree.
@Toog: No, he didn't just ask for people's stances, he actually suggested a policy lynch here.

^This comes off a little forced as a pro-town stance. Not really feeling you at the moment Stef. Your observations thus far don't come off as scum hunting but just posts for appearance. FoS Stef

I'd rather be redundant than regret it later. Enough newbies in this game warrants a little extra care.

@Sandman:

Why does that make you think mothrax is town? Do you not think Raven's scummy any more?

I said townie brownie, not Mothrax = town. Second, I gave him a townie brownie because he didn't back off when pressured for his vote.

About the last question in the above quote, reread the ending of my post and you will find your answer. Pay attention.

@AGar

L-1 is a pressure cooker for making scum break, and as long as you don't have idiot-town, it'll work out in the end. Wraith was saying "No one should be at L-1 until we have 8 more pages." Why does it have to be 8? Why couldn't digi be put at L-1 right then and there? Why not push him a little harder?

It is not damn scummy. It is just failed logic on his behalf as it does not give any advantage to scum. Also, too many trigger happy players to put someone L-1 so early in the game.

And, no, my theory isn't crap if I'm not suggesting a Wraith/Digi scumteam. Wraith could be scum trying to appear very townie by promoting extended discussion and also trying to deter a Digi wagon if he knows Digi to be town. That was the theory, that was what you're missing in my points.

Alright.

Sure, although the town is in a better situation because we don't have to deal with his dilemma. Again in lylo and he lives what do you do?

Fail. The town is not in a better situation. If he is a townie the town is down two townies with no reads but yeah, sure, if it ends up in lylo he won't be there to screw things up. Are you kidding me? Policy lynches are horrible ideas and horribly anti-town.

Gotta reread charlie.

Unvote

for now since tubby's improved.

[Stef]

Meh, fist off, I am a him, not a her.

It seems just before I submitted this, Stef swings in and unvotes tubby for "improving."

I voted for him because he wasn't providing content. He started providing content therefore my reason for voting him became null. I am, for now, satisfied with his posting. This was all obvious, why do you need it spelled out to you?

Actually she never stated V/LA in her previous posts, not really important, just saying... LAL (Where's Benmage?)?

It's not LAL, it's LTR. Learn to read because I said I posted in the

GD

topic.

Admits that she isn't really hunting and just posting redundant commentary

Brutal misrep. I was referring strictly to the "do not claim until/do not hammer until" part and there is no way you could have mistaken that. You strike me as extremely sloppy with the above posts.

Also, your defense of BM is noted.

[Stef]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage

I approve of this service/product.

Vote: Benmage

[Stef]

Posting from phone. Will be without PC access until tomorrow night.

[Stef]

Managed to squeeze in some time today so:

Because this post (where I voted benmage) was left unexplained: I voted for him mainly for the fact that 20 of his posts so far have been regarding a policy lynch that will not happen. Although I strongly disagree with policy lynches, after reading about the subject some more, I agree that it's more of a personal stance than anything to either support or disapprove of policy lynches. However, to seed such a subject (which is known to be null) and to make it a pinata and once it burst to keep encouraging everyone to beat on it is just scummy. More than half his posts have been on this. Another 3 posts in RVS, another few agreement posts and 5 posts to say that you will post later on just leave him with little more than a lot of distraction given for the town on a moot point. A town player would have dropped this subject long ago.

Also, this is one of the most scummiest posts in the game.

No. I won't agree. One potential main component behind a policy lynch is a player who is actively lurking.

****Define for me what you think a policy lynch is based off. (**Hint Hint** it isn't just because you don't like someone or think they're ugly, it has reasons)

In conjunction with this, tell me why you think I was voting Lowell and why you believe I used the word “policy lynch”.

One potential main component behind a lynch based on a scummy read is a player who is actively lurking. It is a scumtell unless that person has a compelling meta of doing so all the time. I will not answer any more policy lynch questions or debates.

Explain what you mean here? Allow me to inquire a little, but please do go deeper. Is defending someone else/answer questions or statements involving/revolving around other people scummy?

Did I strike a nerve? Yes, I do believe defending someone D1 is scummy. Always have.

My, you're judgemental.

Look, you're in no danger of being lynched.

lol. With that statement you cut the power of your vote to half and basically told him to calm down which is the opposite effect you want when voting someone. Thumbs down.

Massive contradiction. Wants to policy-lynch charlie then says that policy-lynches don't work.

Cool posting.

@Benmage: why are you not voting for anyone?

[Stef]

@Benmage: I ment it when I said that I'm no longer talking about policy lynches. I don't

care

if it's unacceptable for you.

Also, I am not tunelling. Out of the ones not voting I think you're the scummiest.

Also, you listed who you're willing to lynch and still haven't voted? You're on the right track!

---------------------

/facepalm at Wraith

I'm thinking VI but ... meh... my second lynch option. If the Benmage wagon doesn't get enough friction by deadline I'm in.

---------------------

I've been defending Benmage most the day, do you think I am scum then?

I think you're scummy for doing that, yes. There is no reason to strongly defend anyone D1 because, unless you are scum (or masons but if that's the case we'll find out soon enough) you cannot know his alignment and blindly defending someone in these circumstances is, therefore, scummy.

[Stef]

I'm pretty sure he means Toogeloo.

[Stef]

@BM: Asking irrelevant questions which are designed to derail the discussion and which bring absolutely no value to the overall conversation is scummy and answering them is pointless.

Thank you for replacing Oso!

I'm still hoping the BM wagon will take flight. If it won't till we near deadline I will move to Wraith.

[Stef]

fix this god awful anti-town behavior.

Make a decision already. Anti-town or scummy? Cause they ain't the same.

You're just making my eyes bleed. Really.

[Stef]

Wraith, your bleeding town at this point

This I agree. However, it appears that neither my or your wagon is actually growing. Unless we can actually find another viable target D1 is probably gonna end lynching town knowingly and that is horrible. I don't see what information can be gathered when everybody has a huge free pass to vote for Wraith for no reason. It's just bad.

Also, I don't like the pressure other players put on to lynch Wraith. Gonna reread.

We still have time to swing this around.

[Stef]

Low on time atm. Will post tonight.

[Stef]

Wait a minute, didn't Wraith hammer himself? That wasn't smart.

Yes, that was a self-hammer. Just did the math. We're now in twilight. I still don't see how the Wraith wagon will be extremely informative considering everybody had a free-pass to vote for him. I guess we'll see tomorrow.

[Stef]

As i said yesterday, the wraith wagon=close to 0 info. Lurkers need to start posting. More once i get back from v/la. (barely posting from phone now)

vote tubby

[Stef]

Back from V/LA. Till tubby posts something of content my vote sticks with him. Will be posting my own content once I get to recover from the said V/LA.

[Stef]

post coming today. Kinda lacked the mood for mafia lately but I'll try rekindling it later on.

[Stef]

I actually can't believe I haven't had the time to post. Promising myself to post tomorrow. Sorry guys.

[Stef]

Yeah... I'm gonna go back to playing this game without posting a wall-o-text. Don't have the patience for it atm and if I keep putting off the game until I do I'll end up providing nothing and being an ass.

Tazaro has been a tad defensive lately. However he struck me as townish D1 and he still has brownies since then. Also, although I consider PJ to be severely scummy, the questioning about the nk reasoning does hold water but other than that I don't see the wagon and solely using that argument would mean relying only on wifom for a lynch which would be horrible.

Charlie looks horrible. His whole catching up is fluff ( I am aware I am being hypocritical, tyvm) and his vote for tazaro is his best chance of voting for someone and getting away with it. I don't like it.

Who I actually dislike severely is PJ:
Starts with a vote on our only claimed PR, votes tazaro with a case based on wifom. Continues pushing strongly for the Oso case when it's clear that we're not going to lynch him today. Also, with the tracker gone (odds where slim as it is) I really don't see how Oso claiming who he jailkept last night would help us. If anything it would provide info to the mafia as to a pattern in Oso's play if he is town. His argument that the player Oso blocked can confirm/deny being blocked is again bull because that would out a potential town PR when it's too early to do so. This is just role-fishing with bulshitting a case into creation against Oso.

Also, PJ, if you post reasons =/= you being right.

Also "Unfortunately, this might suggest that Oso is Town, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it." - since when is it bad for the town to have a PR? It would only be unfortunate for PJ scum for all his hard work to create a case against Oso went to dust. It's convenient for scum to try and lynch a claimed PR instead of NK-ing.

"If Tazaro ends up Town, there is a fair chance I will headed straight back to Oso." setting up lynches for D3! Good going!

The unexplained unvote for tazaro adds to the whole thing. Don't explain it, just say that there wasn't enough traction on the wagon so you dropped it for something that might catch flight.

Unvote, vote PJ

Haven't finished my ISO, will do it after I get back home and will do one on benmage and charlie as well since benmage was my #1 suspect D1 and since charlie is the largest wagon.

[Stef]

Hmm... don't understand why PJ was so convinced Oso was scum. Starting to agree with him about tazaro though.

Vote Tazaro

, that horse is kinda all beat up.

[Stef]

I'mma going to be busy with my college course work today

Wait, night's going to come because of the hammer. I don't have to post in this thread for a couple of days

Also, this really rubs me the wrong way.

[Stef]

I agree that lowell prolly needs to die today. However, let's not quicklynch yet, alright? Still things to discuss, things that I will address after I get a decent night's sleep.

[Stef]

@Mod: I am also voting for tazaro

Will be posting in the next couple of hours.

[Stef]

Alright. Back and fourth, back and fourth:
I've reread Oso and the overall feel of his play has been pro-town. I can see scum faking his role but I have no reason to doubt his alignment other than that his claim can be faked by scum so... yeah. Not exactly confirmed town but I would be against his lynch today.

Lowel's claim is... to quote AGar, odd.

However, AGar said lowell was not as L-2. He was. 3 votes previously on him + 2 = 5 and it takes 7 to lynch so.. yeah. Lowell was at L-2. Still is actually. I see no reason for lowell to have NOT used the bodyguard ability, especially since we had confirmed town. Why would Lowell consider he's more valuable than TWO possible targets who were confirmed town? This is just... absurd. Also, two protective town roles in a mini? I'm having problems believing this claim when taking his play into consideration as well.

I want to hear more people on the Lowell claim and maybe more POVs. I, however, don't see how his claim is actually plausible nor do I see ANY reason for an actual town player to NOT protect confirmed town.

[Stef]

Calling a claim "odd" is pretty weak and scummy. Man up and disagree if you think it's wrong. Stef and Agar look scummy for trying to sucker others into doing their work for them b/c they don't want to look guilty after the lynch. I'm obvtown.

And again, I

do

think my role is more important than masons. Which is confirmed by the fact that no one has tried to kill the masons. So yeah I guess I could have lied and said "OMG masons are so important I protected them with my life!", but it's not really the case. If I were fakeclaiming I would have at least claimed to use my role... geez.

Protective roles are pretty useless until you find somone with some kind of investigative powers worth protecting. Failing that, and if I don't consider myself a likely night target (which I didn't), I think that my play is entirely justified and justifiable.

How do you call the use of the word "odd" to be scummy exactly? Man up to what? My post was specific enough, my intentions as well.

There you go again with the "i'm obvtown". Funny how you seem to be the only one convinced of it thus making it utterly useless for any of the rest of us.

You think your role is more important than masons? HA. TWO confirmed town players outweigh you (an unconfirmed claimed bodyguard) by a LONG shot.

WIFOM defense is always awful and absolutely crap. Protective roles are useful to protect likely targets from NKs to help the town WIN. If the targets are confirmed town, the more reason to do so.

No way you are town.

Unvote, Vote Lowell

Die please.

[Stef]

V/LA till Friday when I get back in town.

[Stef]

In a nutshell, my views on tubby are that he is being anti-town. Posted basically nothing of substance except 2-3 posts (the rest are one-liners). All his votes and opinions have been very populist. Recent OMGUS on Taz and still no content provided. Apparently disappeared since the votes piled up on him. He doesn't look good. I am willing to hammer pending his post and/or claim.

[Stef]

I am here. I am a VT.

[Stef]

@Zorblag: yeah, pretty much caught up with the game.

At this point I am looking at the cases and I'm not seeing much in any direction. The case on me is "he has been lurking" which is bull because I have 1. had my account inactive for a week 2. I moved to a different country 3. this has been my activity level site-wide. I also remember someone saying I was scummy for my voting pattern and that I attacked Benmage and that could have been bussing. I am not afraid to hammer. If I think the wagon is right then I will vote and hammer every time. I am aware that people who do hammer to get looked on for it but I don't really care to be honest and the bussing argument is null without my flip but I will tell you this. If people would have listened to me D1 we would have caught scum instead of going on that retarded wagon on Wraith which was pretty much confirmed town based on his play, a lynch which told us nothing and basically gave the mafia 2 kills.

I have no reason to suspect the masons. Toogeloo has been very townish and if he and toon are scum it was a great gambit, toog has played us all and they diserve to win. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think it is unlikely and speculating if one of the most pro-town players is scum will lead nowhere at this point.

After reading all of you in ISO... mothrax looks bad. Most of his scumhunting looks very shallow and for show. See the Tazaro push for example. I get a town vibe from Zorblag and the next in line would be Tazaro for his play throughout the game but his vote being on all the town wagons does not mean as much for me as it seems to matter for others. Sandman's game looks ... townish to me.

[Stef]

I already have. My pick is Zorblag.