Mini #76, Black and White

[Wacky]

confirmation

[Wacky]

Oh look, a bandwagon (or two)

I'm going to reuse the age-old argument of "if you didn't confirm in-thread, you are either paying attention or have a night choice" and of course the other age-old argument "Stop spamming"

and

Vote: blackhawk

[Wacky]

Three bad guys, eight good. So, are we just going to bandwagon someone randomly for the first day? Since we already know that everyone will role-claim townie, it doesn't seem that anyone will be able to get out of a wagon moving at speed.

Bloojay's vote seems vaguely mafia-esque, but then I think mine will if I add it to his bandwagon So... I'm not sure of the most constructive way to deal with day one in the face of this. Any thoughts?

Same quote, different argument.

1: the Talitha kill: without overanalysing, that is either a kill by relatively inexperienced players (since MeMe is better known for modding stuff than for winning MasiaStom) or an attempt to appear so. With no doctors and stuff Talitha should be ranked no.2 for killing at night. But it doesnt.

2: Some townies have stuff tacked on the end. Stuff that may be pertinent and believed (or not).

So, I'm going to hope that MeMe isn't scum and

Vote: Carmine

[Wacky]

This is interesting.

Carmine is just townie.
blackhawk claims his misunderstanding is as a result of confusing it with the win condition "You are a townie who is out to extinguish the mafia. "
bloojay "I am a simple townie who hates the mafia for killing some close relatives."

However, there are a couple of points that need to be addressed.

1. Quoting the mod is not against the rules. So, you may as well do that when you claim.
2. Polarboy is screwing with our heads. While it won't be Mixed Theme and Massive the Brontosaurus/Townie, there is likely to be some kind of weird variation of the townie role.
3. It would be slightly unfair to the mafia if they didn't know about it. They would probably have something like "You are mafia who is after global domination" or variations thereof, and having discussed during the night, deduced what we have here.

Thus:

a. MeMe has been implying that knowing about the stuff tacked on implies that the person is innocent. This assumption is questionable and suspicious. (See 3.)
b.Carmine's claim is probably no less believable (See 2.)
c. Blackhawk's claim is suspicious since
- Implying aspiring vig? Backups and vigilantes are both claims that mafia may be inclined to make normally, and would be characteristic of a mafia frame of mind.
- Extinguish? What kind of word is extinguish? What sounds more likely:
"You are a townie who is out to extinguish the mafia. "
OR
"You are mafia, who is out to extinguish the townies"

Maybe I'm overanalysing a bit, and taking assumptions too far, and trying to get inside people's heads, but I'm going to switch to the Blackhawk wagon.

Unvote: Carmine, Vote: Blackhawk

[Wacky]

Oh, BTW, here's a snippet from Mafia Discussion by Werebear that you would probably want to see.

~Begin Quote~
Re: Polarboy's game... As soon as the town lynches THREE townies, the game is over.

If the first three lynches are town, the game is the mafia's (there would be 3 town and 3 mafia left). If 3 of the first 4 lynches are town, the game is the mafia's (there would be 2 mafia and 2 town left). If 3 of the first five lynches are town, the game is the mafia's. (there would be 1 mafia and 1 townie left)

Here's how the third scenario might go, with two mafia lynched.

night 1 - town - day 1 - mafia
night 2 - town - day 2 - mafia
night 3 - town - day 3 - town
night 4 - town - day 4 - town
night 5 - town - day 5 - town - game over, 1 mafia and 1 town left

so the magic number is 3 in Polarboy's game.... and I'll bet on the mafia winning any day, with their ability to pile on votes and support unbased claims. I'll bet the mafia win day 4, with two still alive. (by win day 4, I mean it will be a tie when night comes, an automatic mafia win)

~~~~

[Wacky]

...true. I really should think things completely before I post. UnFOS: MeMe. I think I'm biased because of the earlier not-dying thing... I mean, it was a trap! yeah... noone fell for it.

However, "plain townie"? I don't recall you using the word "plain" earlier...

[Wacky]

Sorry. Tend to skim read, possibly as a relic of playing mafia games on MTGNews too much (Phyrexian Mafia had about 56 pages of crap)

Again, I apologise.

[Wacky]

Actually, though MeMe overemphasises the blackhawk's suspiciousness, most of her arguments are valid. Isaac, your defence/defense (depending on where you live), make you suspicious more than anything. Moreover, too much has happened and blackhawk's death will give us good info.

[Wacky]

Blackhawk not being mafia was entirely unexpected. Polarboy making a mistake was unexpected. Yay!

Anyway, I will follow MeMe and

Vote: Fletcher

. One "plain townie" is an anomaly designed to muck with one's head, but two? That's really a bit too much, I think. If anyone else has "plain townie", could they speak up now? Please?

Carmine also seems suspicious.

<strikeout>
One other thing that people should make a BIG note of later is that MeMe still isn't dead. Rather Mystery Celly. That is, rather strange. And would go nicely with Carmine being scum since MeMe's last post is ironically a subtle attempt to derail the carmine wagon.
</strikeout>

I just realised something. If Fletcher is innocent, Carmine should not be scum, since she has the same "plain townie" PM. If Fletcher is mafia, Carmine, again, shouldn't be mafia because lumping them together like that spells trouble, and Fletcher would (should?)

If MeMe is scum in the scenario specified above, then more likely than not Isaac is also mafia. Massively targeting a member of her own mafia is likely to be something MeMe as mafia would do. But also what MeMe as non-mafia would do.

Then again, could be reverse psychology. Or reverse reverse psychology. Or..

So, having confused myself completely while making possibly correct points, I will

Vote: Fletcher

, for the reason of the post pointed out by MeMe. And because being out of ideas isn't all that good. And being odd is suspicious.

[Wacky]

I've

never

gone guns blazing after mafia when I am mafia. Making a statement that the facts don't support is extremely sloppy.

Just like to point out that it would be a brilliant play if you did. Anyway:

Since Fletcher claimed the exact same role as Carmine,

If Carmine is mafia, that means Fletcher is mafia (unless mafia somehow knew townie claims, but I'm going to assume that they don't in order to balance the game)

If Carmine isn't mafia, Fletcher could still be and probably is mafia. (Mafia jumping in and claiming a role already in the game is fairly common)

So, IMO, Carmine being mafia is like a subset of Fletcher being mafia so I'm going to leave my vote there for the moment.

[Wacky]

Um.. guys...?

[Wacky]

Well, at the risk of defending possible scum:

I'm a she!

Ah well, at least I have closure on this game now. Hanging around before hanging hasn't been much fun.

Good luck, town. I think you might need it. Apologies for the slip ups, but hey, you've got two lynches spare still.

That was during twilight and immediately before Fletchers and implies that she was a townie.

[Wacky]

For the record, I don't think it's possible for anyone to have the same PM as me. It's pretty distinctive.

[Wacky]

I went back and read over the thread again, and I think I've figured out why bloojay is killed:

well, I'll go ahead and claim.
I am a simple townie who hates the mafia for killing some close relatives.

Bloojay was the first to claim stuff in addition to the townie role. That made him look innocent. This would suggest someone who pays attention to fine detail is on the mafia.

OTOH (can't believe I missed this yesterday):

This is a pretty stupid set of reasons to vote for someone. I doubted that added role flavor existed, and for good reason. I didn't get it, and most townies probably didn't get it as well. .

Nonetheless Isaac placed the final vote on Carmine.

Not only that but there's the fervent defense of blackhawk and Isaac (following Blackhawk) have been on a crusade to get MeMe lynched from the start. Maybe MeMe might be mafia or Isaac is.

I think Isaac should quote his mod PM NOW.

[Wacky]

[quote="Gammie"]
But there is a tad more "beef" so to say to my PM at least than just "townie." In fact, it doesn't even use townie, it uses "Town".
[quote]

Would it happen to be S....C...(Town)?

There are several notable things I would like to add:

1. MeMe, is getting more suspicious. She hasn't commented on this game lately. Blackhawk was too suspicious for her to ignore had she been scum. And I'm pretty sure that scum had a hand in the Carmine wagon.

2. I was hoping Isaac would claim something totally not right. Didn't work, but if I was mod, I would have "townie" as a claim.

3. Something about No Idea just isn't right...

But I don't want to commit myself to a plan just yet. I really want to look over things more and hear what MeMe thinks.

[Wacky]

I forgot - the ellipsis (...) are supposed to represent stuff. It isn't "S...C...(Town)"

[Wacky]

Well, having thought about it some, I've come up with this:

This is polarboy modding. He usually messes with our minds around twice or so. In trouble in toybox it was elmo (expected by some)and jack stone(unexpected) being naive. In Homestar it would probably be Strong Bad's prank call (expected by d8p), and Strong Sad (not expected).

My role is
From: PolarBoy
To: Wacky
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:01 am
Subject: Mini #76 Role
You are Sean Connery(Town).

Just like that. That is most definitely the surprise. Leaving the "expected" head messing up with.

I think we can expect that the mod MIGHT (but not necessarily did) double the most basic townie role to mess with our heads. He may also have "townie" and "Plain Townie" to mess with our heads. I don't think he would have both. If you already have "Plain Townie", "townie" is a bit more plain. But we have two alleged "plain townie"s and only one alleged "townie". It should be the other way around IMO for it to work.

Thus, either Isaac is lying and "plain townie" is the most plain townie role or Fletcher is lying. Or both.

Only I can't decide who to vote for... so I'm going to

vote Fletcher

Isaac's defense of blackhawk and final voting of Carmine are both suspicious, but for some reason I don't get many scummy vibes from him.

OTOH, how about this theory for Fletcher being scum. F= scum. Thinks that by doubling on the most basic townie PM he could get away with the above argument - especially since townies have already died without revealing their PM. Doesn't take Isaac into account.

[Wacky]

Yay. Scum is back. But I'm a bit lost ATM.

Living(7/12)
Fletcher (Plain Townie)
Gammie (Village Idiot[town])
Isaac (townie)
Kerplunk (Townsperson)
MeMe (Out-of-work TP)
No Idea (Town MeMeber...lol - funny typo)
Wacky (Sean Connery)

Dead(5/12)
bloojay - hit night 3 (Townie, something about relatives)
Carmine - lynched day 2 (Plain Townie)
The Mystery Celly - hit night 2 (??)
blackhawk - lynched day 1, Mafia! (Mafia out to extinguish townies)
Talitha - hit night 1 (??)

FOS: No Idea. Mafia Memeber seems more likely. Mafia should stop just copying their PMs and sticking in "town" where it says "mafia" Happy Christmas to you all.

[Wacky]

I should start trusting those instincts.

And good job MeMe! Next time, don't hyphenate. It's .. well.. weird.

Happy New Year!

[Wacky]

Well, I was typing out the list and made a Freudian typo. And thought it was funny.

Instincts are useless if I didn't trust them, and I didn't. Which was bad. So I'll be trusting them now.

"Actually, I still don't understand why is it crap logic... "

Well, it isn't, exactly. Only if this argument was true MeMe would never live past Day 1, and would probably get annoyed. I'm pretty sure that we do NOT want to see MeMe annoyed.

Seriously though, if we accepted the argument, then the mafia could pretty easily not kill her and use this argument for a free lynch.