Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[Kise]

This will be the first time I'll trust a Snake. It looks like you got worked up, Grey, over having to correct yourself with the mass claim issue. The reason this question was asked during signups was to eliminate any connection a mass lover claim would have with players' alignment.

Massclaim is bad because it conveniently shows scum who they can eliminate simultaneously. That's an advantage for scum. I believe loverclaim should only happen when someone is in danger of a lynch.

I didn't realize that scum didn't have NK.

FOS

- feigning ignorance when I KNOW you read the role PMs during signups. I like how you disappeared for 3 hours to let everyone soak it in and give you cheap town points. I'm not lynching you on the first day, but I've got you pegged.

Also since there are no NKs who wins 1scumv1town endgames and so forth?

All of the town in this game will survive. Hakuna matada.

Lover claim: Nero Cain

Also, I'm going to

UNVOTE

because my vote was based on the idea that scum had NK.

1) I'm not lynching Nero today either.
2) So your plan from the start was to goad players into asking you why you had a problem with lover-claiming... mhmm...

VOTE: Espeonage
For using logic >:O

I could get behind a massclaim, but I would like to see Baby Spices opinion on it first.

I needed a laugh. Thanks, you two.

I will reveal if the other, lesser, half agrees. (

He

hasn't posted yet)

Considering the miniscule amound of

real

discussion that has happened so far we also need a pressure wagon as well.

Vote: Espeonage

- Stop trying to look like DDD.

@

Esp's scum orgy

Somebody: Please ask me why Esp' just dropped the soap. Please.

[Kise]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/memberlist.p ... le&u=10795

[Kise]

To clarify: He used to have an avatar of Penn Jillette that reminded me of your current avy.

http://www.cardcheaters.com/images/prod ... e-penn.jpg

Meh...

[Kise]

*will not feed the inner troll*

I'm seeing an Esp/Purp/Reck/Nero lover team.

[Kise]

I'm going to give it another week before putting the nail in the coffin, because I know how you good folks like to talk for as long as you can each phase. I'll wait until you get tiresome, then upgrade my Radio Flyer into a voluptuous wagon that none of you can resist.

[Kise]

@Emp: I spoke to him on AIM about this game. He knew the setup beforehand. Examine him in iso with the view that he is scum 100%. He goes after Grey - the first person to mention lovers claiming - with a tone of vehemence. He wants to be taken seriously so that Grey eventually gives him a reason to mention players being nightkill. It's a blatant bombardment if you read Reck in iso. All he focuses on for the time being is goading Grey so that he can say his line, (paraphrasing) "

claiming lovers is bad because scum will nightkill good pairs.

" And of course, someone else has to come in and give him the IT stamp.

I find Reck and Purp to be scum for the same reasons, and while Esp is independently scummy, his pairing with Purp solidifies my thoughts of those 3. Speaking of Esp, I can't wait. We need a quicklynch to get off the ground.

Considering the miniscule amound of

real

discussion that has happened so far we also need a pressure wagon as well.

Iso Esp up until this point... hell, iso him beyond this point as well. He's full of IIOA, yet here he is insisting we pressure another player. Esp has provided nothing for us to discuss by way of relevant exchanges. He's attempting to get everyone riled up into wagoning a player (I suppose in an effort to appear town), but his lack of participating goes to show his mind is not really into helping out.

I started to tease Reck and tell him to bring on an excuse during my previous post, but I won't be a dick. Bros > you hoes. Again, going back to iso'ing his first couple of posts, his

plan

comes off too predetermined. This, plus the convo I had with him over on AIM about this setup, make me sure he's feigning ignorance to gain town points in a situation where he (as scum) cannot pick off other players with nightkills.

I prefer to deal with Esp & Purp, day 1. If Esp (Purp too, I believe) isn't going to add anything like he suggests the rest of us should, then he's not needed. I'd like to keep Reck & Nero around so they can spot the rival-scum lynching their buddies.

[Kise]

Gotta go grocery shopping so I'll have something commenting on the new interesting stuff when I get back.

A.k.a. to your scum QT to devise a strategy. It's like 3 in the morning where I'm at. Where do you live?

[Kise]

Nevermind. Can you believe I'm googling the hours of operation for stores in NSW? I'm calling it a night lol.... I'm not letting up. After I go over this with you, you decide that you've found something worth analyzing. I'm not liking that coincidence one bit.

[Kise]

Mod: Would it be okay for me to request screenshots of these convos I had with Reck in an out-of-game setting? As in, not even once mentioning the game, just shooting the shit?

I need to investigate the authenticity of this myself. Reck, why didn't you call me out on this the first time I accused you of feigning ignorance?
Here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2768860

BBL.

[Kise]

11/21/10 - One-line hello from Riko while I wasn't there
01/20/11 - 22 minute conversation talking about the end of me/dram's Ocarina of Time game, Goofbash, and how my boyfriend's name is also the name of a Pokémon trainer.
01/21/11 - One-line hello with information about his Square-Enix 4 mafia game
01/26/11 - A prod to go post in his Square-Enix 4 mafia game

Lovers Multiball is in there. I refuse to believe your back and forth with Grey wasn't forced as a way to claim ignorance, and wtfx---- is the name I talked to during signups.

Unvote; Vote: xRECKONERx

Simple shit here, people. A town flip of one means you lynch the other. Start with me or him, whatever.

@Thingyman: What is your username on twoplustwo?

[Kise]

ILL SCREENCAP EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY IF I HAVE TO.

DO IT THEN. 1-20-11 IS OUR LONGEST CONVO SO ITS IN THERE.

Man you're totally stretching now.

[Removed -

Sens

]

POST THE GA DAMN CONVOS THEN
BUT LEAVE OUT THE NASTY PARTS

[Kise]

This entire arguement is bullshit and has absolutly jack to do with this game...


VOTE: Reck

before I seriously call you Fate.

WHY ARE YOU AND SILADOR BUDDYING ME LIKE THIS?

[Kise]

Nov 21

12:04:31 AM Riko172: won my return match.... feels good
Changed status to Offline (12:06:31 AM)
Changed status to Online (12:17:41 AM)

YOU ASSHOLE, WHY DIDNT YOU RESPOND BACK TO ME?
AND OKAY WHERE THE FUCK IS THAT CONVO ABOUT MULTIBALL........

UNVOTE

So who's ready for the Superbowl?

[Kise]

Me and Kise's conversations are better.

Sooooo

, was it you by chance that I talked about multiball with during signups?

I probably wasn't at the computer.

It says you changed your status to offline.. None of this makes you town BTW.

Reck, why didn't you call me out on this the first time I accused you of feigning ignorance?
Here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2768860

[Kise]

You didn't answer it. You said that SensFan, FTR, wanted you to join the game. What I'm asking you is why didn't you bring down the lightning and thunder the first time I threw a FOS your way and said I KNEW you were feigning ignorance?

[Kise]

Kise, can you find where you talked about it, and (if Sensfan allows it) post a screencap like reck did?

I don't have the same program that he does. I selectively save AIM convos but not all of them. Sorry.

[Kise]

In that case, you could have at least asked me why I was saying the things I did. At least showed me you were curious. Considering you didn't know how I may have been drawing my "facts" about you, and with all that said and cleared up and out the way and in the hay... Please, clan lord William H., show me your mercy.



Please?

[Kise]

Me and Kise's conversations are better.

Sooooo

, was it you by chance that I talked about multiball with during signups?

Naw. We talked about RK and shit.

You sure? Really, really sure?

[Kise]

Nah forget that. I said I knew you read role PMs during signups and you brushed it off, the fuck?

[Kise]

@Nero: I'm tired of beating a dead horse but out of the players here, I only IM you, Reck and dram. Since I know I haven't spoken to dram in ages and Reck uploaded the convos, it comes down to you. I remember you signed up after me for this game and made mention of it, but I'm not sure explicitly what was talked about, though you can guess what I believe we went over. It's more than RK and shit, is what I'm getting at.

@Reck: I didn't use the word "convinced" and I clearly wasn't referring to your final role PM - I said "signups." This actually has nothing to do with reading the scum's role PMs and knowing they couldn't kill, and something else isn't matching up. If you thought I was only convinced of you reading your(?) role PM, then why was your response about SensFan getting you involved in the game? I don't understand what that has to do with you reading your(?) role unless you intentionally are referring to your role as one of the scum's.

[Kise]

@Reck: Your words still do not match up with the issue at hand. Irregardless of how you became involved in this game, I claimed to have known you read the scum's role PM and you didn't call me out on it back then. The purpose of me saying "KNOW" in all caps was to grab your attention, so there's no excuse to mistake that for me saying I was

convinced

>

knowing

you read the scum's role. Another interesting bit:

You didn't answer it. You said that SensFan, FTR, wanted you to join the game. What I'm asking you is why didn't you bring down the lightning and thunder the first time I threw a FOS your way and said I KNEW you were feigning ignorance?

You didn't say HOW you knew. And since this conversation never happened, why the fuck would I assume I needed to prove that we never had a conversation about this?

You didn't come swinging out of the woodworks until I specifically mentioned AIM. If you claim that you knew nothing about the game at all, then should it have mattered HOW I knew? You should have been going ape shit the moment I said something about your knowledge with this setup, but there wasn't even a follow up or curiosity from you as to where I was drawing my accusations from.

I'm not fuggin' crazy. Somebody talked to me about this game during signups and I only have 3 of you on my AIM buddy lists.

@Emp & Llama: Purp's little herp derp moment bothers me just the same as Reck. The way Reck goes after Grey over the NK issue looks too contrived and pre-planned. I went to his (Reck's) facebook page tonight and I can confirm that he made a status wall post thingy about being sick, so there's less merit in my theory that he waited 3 hours in hopes others would view his obliviousness as leaning town. On the other hand, I think it's especially telling that someone brought up Purp's comment in the queue thread to compare with her apparently not knowing that scum couldn't kill. Her post where she has the revelation that this is a nightless game comes across as the more blatantly feigned, as it was a mere minute or 2 away from her previous post where she shares Reck's "obliviousness." What I'm not understanding is what she could have been doing for that minute or 2 to realize this is nightless, when her first post gave the impression she looked over everything - including Grey's comment about scum not being able to harm anyone. I can't easily shake the idea that this was something they may have went over in their group QT, considering all of us were able to communicate pre-game with our lovers.

[Kise]

Kise:
I’m having a really impossible time finding an innocent explanation for backpedalling in [282].

He pasted our entire aim convos as of late. Uncertainty began to set in my head and I had this "lost" feeling. I looked over the time stamps to ensure he couldn't have edited anything out (and I know what that redacted comment is about) so I was left scratching my head at the time.

[Kise]

I can't easily shake the idea that this was something they may have went over in their group QT, considering all of us were able to communicate pre-game with our lovers.

Adding to this, I strongly believe all 8 scum devised some kinf of plan in their QTs, so once day 1 officially began, I immediately expected to detect a few players acting out based on whatever their other 3 partners may have come up with. Implosion and I only greeted each other during pre-game, which also adds to my belief that any other town couples had nothing to thoroughly discuss beforehand and no strategies would be in play until further in the game. If I think someone is behaving based on a pre-planned motive, I immediately view them as leaning scum. The only other thing added to my QT is my explanation of the Esp vote earlier.

[Kise]

I'm not reading 5 pages right now. Tomorrow I'll return. Is it too early for an implosion-prod?

[Kise]

I haven't been feeling too good lately. If you guys want my slot to replace out, I can do that. I've had this headache/fever thing for so long, and I'm not sure if it'll let up any time soon.

Limited Access this week

(late, I know)

[Kise]

I'm just going to throw out that I read Emp as scum for trying to set up lynches of both my pair and Nero-Reck. Still reading.

[Kise]

How is it protown to drop this without an adequate exlpanation?

I did.

I'm just going to throw out that I read Emp as scum for

trying to set up lynches of both my pair and Nero-Reck

.

Simple as.

Look, guys, I think after playing on mafiascum for nearly 2 years, I deserve to have a chance to chill out. So, I wanna post minimally... at least until I feel better.

Hi, new lover... I think this is cheating. So our QT is a pretty good place for you to drop some knowledge on me. Let me soak up game.

PO's 664 is interested. Unless I'm seeing it wrong, sil' first says he doesn't know what to make of the situation, only to later say one of Reck and me was lying - All within a matter of 47 minutes.

[Kise]

Man, I've been typing like DLA lately. That last paragraph should actually read 'interestING' instead.

[Kise]

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

I disagree, and this may be more relevant to MD than anything. In general, we wouldn't want to make our lovers "headdesk" so it may be a good idea to run ideas by them. If KCD has an outrageous idea (I haven't used or seen that word in years, wow), then that probably inspired him to go to BS first. But now, if he comes back with.. well I'll wait and see what he comes back with, first. That scene where he's apologizing to BS also goes to explain how he may feel the need to get permission from his

owner

significant other.

iirc only the mafia peeps are married. that just read to me that by implying that kdc and lover are supposed to be married that you would assume all lover pairs are married because you and your lover pair are married. Regardless of marital status outside of the game.

Lol I didn't even remember that mafia were married as far as "flavor" goes... did YOU just make a scumslip? Not defending Nero here because I still hold my views from earlier about the orgy of him, Reck, PO and- oh.... hmph...

Cannot believe that Baby Spice remembers the ridiculous flavor of this game, I had to check the role PMs to confirm it myself.

Something is very wrong about that.

That's what I'm getting at. Excluding BS, I found the other pairs suspicious from the start - slightly less after Reck whooped my ass, though focusing solely on NK-less scum appeared to be intentional rather than accidental. Esp's "IIRC" makes it seem more like he's vaguely remembering that the mafia are married, when he really should have gone back to recheck instead of winging it to memory (like a certain someone else did ).

I'd assume that any town lover wouldn't be so attached to remembering what the story of the non-town role PMs are. I'm not really raising my eyebrow to it because, like I said, I had him as an initial suspect of mine.

@Emptyger: You are basically telling everyone that lurking is antitown, which everyone already knows. But then the players you are expressing suspicion of are the ones who are being active (my pair excepted). And where are you hiding Thingyman? Him not posting makes it harder to read you both.

Thingyman redeemed himself with the whole werewolf comment.... Emp done goofed, looks like. I'm still seeing him as scum. Adding contradicting stances to doesn't hurt to affirm to me my beliefs.

@Emptiger: Are you usually that bad ?

Holy shit, really

[Kise]

Knew I had forgot something.

Vote: EmpTyger

[Kise]

Kise do you think scum are more likely to remember flavor or is it null?

Scum definitely remember aspects of their role more than anyone else would. I wanted to ask you something but forgot. Keep reminding me.

Lol PO now wants to lynch me lollolo. If that entire lynch-list is made up of minimalist posters, I'm tunneling on PO. I haven't said this before but what I would think (and just like Emp) is that the scum want to line up as many lynches as possible due to it only taking 2 lynches of their team to wipe them out. But still... you just listed 7 pairs you would lynch. It's pretty horrible if you don't narrow the list down

based on your OWN reads

.

Why isn't Emp an option for you today?

Lol @ q21's niggling.

Hi, Charlie. I think we've played together... if not, hi anyway.

[Kise]

Mist is your rival scum or not.

[Kise]

Your alleged contradiction is because you're reading *Llama* instead of what I actually said. Which was:

The antitowns are ubercoordinated and have greater numbers than typical. They can easily dominate the thread and prevent the town from coordinating, prevent the town from thinking things through. Town cannot sit back and passively win this game. This isn't that kind of setup. This setup requires almost every protown player to actively compete. At least, if they want the the town to win.

Llama, is this what you were referring to? I have no clue what it is you were referring to, hence why I said it

looks

like Emp done goofed. (Vote stays)

Mod: I put the photo into the quote by accident, please fix

No, it's funnier that way.

In terms of lining up lynches, where does your "Reck-Nero-PO-Espy orgy" you've been pushing since the beginning of the game fall?

Well, dear, it's only proper to want to lynch 4 players that you feel share a scum QT. As opposed to, you know, your 14 player lynch-list. If the majority of players are inactive, then the majority are obviously town. I have fallen into the inactive category so my

current

line of thinking is that townies are somewhere in the 90's% range of those other inactives... if not 100%. Purp, I'm not sure how long you've consistently played mafia, but I know better that lurkers and people who barely contribute (or fail to contribute completely: werewolf) are NOT always scum. It's a matter of you actually attempting to figure out why each player would do certain actions as both town and scum, then take note of it, then weigh which of the two viewpoints reads stronger compared with interactions of other players - This, instead of lynching minimal players in lazy fashion.

I found time to go back and look at the q21 lynch... I'd think it had enough fuel from townies attacking that pair that at least half of the scum (4-/+ players) would stay off of it. Of course, you, Esp & Emp were not voting q21 so guess what I'm thinking.

[Kise]

What I'm doing, Emp, is asking Llama if that quote is what he was referring to. Let's give him time. I'm hoping your question isn't strawmanning like I think it is, but I'll answer anyway... Actually screw that, I'm not answering it that way. It's about more than (we're talking about Purp, right?) having 10-14 suspects. In fact, it's not even suspects. She wants to lynch that amount of players to

fix the issue

of stagnant activity, while also listing minor points she felt were scummy coming from each pair to justify her being behind each of their lynches.

I got you, Purp... I got you. Later.

[Kise]

In terms of lining up lynches, where does your "Reck-Nero-PO-Espy orgy" you've been pushing since the beginning of the game fall?

Well, dear, it's only proper to want to lynch 4 players that you feel share a scum QT. As opposed to, you know, your 14 player lynch-list.

So it was the "if one's innocent the other is guilty" deal that that bothered you? And...um...the sheer numbers of mine?

What do you mean "one's innocent the other's guilty?" I does not compute, but if this is an attempt to confuse/frustrate me, it's not working. I've expressed numerous times how I don't like your and Reck's ignorance to no NKs, and I also didn't like Esp's call for real discussion when he was providing nothing himself (IIOA). He got a fire lit under him after that point, but of course he would after I called him out for it.

If the majority of players are inactive, then the majority are obviously town. I have fallen into the inactive category so my

current

line of thinking is that townies are somewhere in the 90's% range of those other inactives... if not 100%.

So...minority action = mafia? "I'm doing this and I'm town, therefore everyone who acts like me is town?" What kind of reasoning is THAT?

Mine. Rather than dispel me from my line of thought, why not ask how I'd reevaluate things if my suspects flipped town? 'Course you wouldn't ask such a thing.

I mean, mine might not be much better, but it's more along the lines of: The mafia will be trying to blend in with the town. They try to do what the majority of the town is doing, or they'll stand out and get noticed and die. When town's active, they need to be active, even though lurking is usually more in their interests. When the town is coasting along doing nothing...golly, guess what? They can go coast along doing nothing, draw no attention to themselves, and blend right in, and survive.

There's no cops, so mafia can draw as much attention to themselves as they want. And if this is how mafia is playing according to you, then who are the scum that are blending in?

Purp, I'm not sure how long you've consistently played mafia, but I know better that lurkers and people who barely contribute (or fail to contribute completely: werewolf) are NOT always scum. It's a matter of you actually attempting to figure out why each player would do certain actions as both town and scum, then take note of it, then weigh which of the two viewpoints reads stronger compared with interactions of other players - This, instead of lynching minimal players in lazy fashion.

Of course I know that. You guys are the ones putting words in my mouth saying that I'm going after people

because they're lurking

. PP is the only person I said I'd be willing to lynch for his lurking

K.. gotcha.

When someone posts fewer posts, it often makes it harder for me to read them, though I've tried my best. And again, I'm also currently of the "scum are probably lazy and going with the flow" school of thought, not the "scum are acting as an organized force of doom" school of thought. Any correlation between lurkiness and people I'm ok lynching will be based on those factors. If it looks like conscious and deliberate lurker hunting, fine, it looks like conscious and deliberate lurker hunting. There's not much I can do about that.

What led you to think scum are lazy, again?
*
*
*
*
*

Llama’s the one insisting otherwise.

Llama, your rebuttal? This makes me want to undo my minimalism.

The problem is that this game will go on for at least two more months because of the no-night policy.

Not if there's a town sweep from here on out. This sounds like a complaint that there's no night kills.. hey, that's good. No town deaths at night, kno'm saying? You shouldn't want night kills right now. All that town can do in general (any game) is vote to lynch, so if you're town, use your vote and don't worry about night kills. Sorry, dram, but wolf's gotta go.

it go boom.

Hehe... I see Reck's point now. You go off to get BS' approval for some case, then don't present it or even reveal the contents, so now I have to

unvote;

wagon

vote: kcdaspot

[Kise]

Catch the slip in 959, people.

[Kise]

It's a slip because he expects this game to go on for at least 2 months. Let's calculate, here... for town to win, 4 players need to be lynched. For mafia to win in their current state, they need over 4 players to lynched - make that 7 players. Which is more likely to take

at least

2 months?

You should change your sig for the time being.

[Kise]

EBWOP

mafia/wolves***

[Kise]

Emp-lynch might happen?!?

Kcdaspot - 12 (Reck, silavor, vezok, Tragedy, Nero, Dram, Mariyta, Kcdaspot, GreyICE, werewolf, Kise, Llamarble)
Mariyta - 3 (

Espeonage, Purple Orange

, Baby Spice)
Llamarble - 2 (antihero,

EmpTyger

)

Bolded are my picks for the other mafia lovers. They were more likely to try and build a counter wagon instead of being one of those [?] not voting. To adjust this though, KCD didn't self vote and Antihero actually voted him in post 932.

What do you mean "one's innocent the other's guilty?" I does not compute, but if this is an attempt to confuse/frustrate me, it's not working.

The fact that the way

they

lined up lynches wasn't by saying, "if pair A flips scum, pair B is scum," but by saying "if pair A flips

town

, pair B is scum."

Yeah, I think you're trying to confuse me. Who are

they

? We're only talking about you and me here.

Rather than dispel me from my line of thought, why not ask how I'd reevaluate things if my suspects flipped town?

Err...because right now none of ours have flipped anything, so all I can do is try to have you reconsider and reshuffle your mafia assignments while the cards are all still face down.

No need to reshuffle when I need to get my suspects flipped over like flapjacks. I'm thinking you're fighting to get me to change my opinion hard; calling it nonsensical and the likes. I gave you a chance by saying I only think about 90% of the inactive players were town, but that's not good enough to accept, eh.

Everything else we're debating about can be taken to MD.

[Kise]

@Mari: What part of Grey's case?

@Grey: Bussing isn't a bad strat... with all the fresh faces in here, I wouldn't expect it. That's all. It's my opinion and, just like I'm saying to PO, I'm not trying to convert anyone. This helps us to get an understanding of what each other are thinking. I don't cut corners or keep my opinions locked up when I know I won't be NK'd.

ITT Kcdaspot has to get Baby Spice to confirm his cases so he doesn't look even scummier

Town lovers wouldn't do that
Scum lovers, however, would

I disagree, and this may be more relevant to MD than anything. In general, we wouldn't want to make our lovers "headdesk" so it may be a good idea to run ideas by them. If KCD has an outrageous idea (I haven't used or seen that word in years, wow), then that probably inspired him to go to BS first.

But now, if he comes back with.. well I'll wait and see what he comes back with, first.

That scene where he's apologizing to BS also goes to explain how he may feel the need to get permission from his

owner

significant other.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2803279

KCD hadn't made his anticipated post up until before I placed my vote. I was waiting for the reply like the rest, and when he presented nothing, pop went the weasel [ftm]. At the time of the above quote, KCD was 4-5 votes away from the lynch - plenty of time for him to get help compiling something, but whoever was in his group didn't give him a good enough answer. Some people stayed strong on the wagon; some went for Mariyta, but came back to KCD.

I checked out both of the final VCs. Reck, Mari, Grey and LLama were pretty solid on KCD both days. I'd lean towards them and their lovers (Nero, Tragedy, Antihero & Ashblade (DBE)) not being Mafia, obv. If you want to extract those others who lynched KCD but weren't strong D1/otherwise, there's myself, silavor, vezok, dram & wolf (lovers). Others off the wagon: Pray, Charlie (Haylen), Mist, Esp, PO, Emp.

Time's a ticking.

[Kise]

I'll take it you agree with all of it. In particular, I want to know if you think I'm illogical to suggest KCD was not bussed?

[Kise]

if you'll notice, I'm voting Esp

I'd follow the Emp or Esp's voters at the moment. Sunday is judgment day.

@Grey: Nice try, but your bolded, "Excluding BS, I found the other pairs suspicious from the start" is just that... I found Purp, Esp, Nero and Reck suspicious from the start. EXCLUDING means I did not suspect BS FROM THE START. If you want to bring up that line, then remember that I thought Esp was even scummier than before for remembering the Mafia's storyline - when he tried to accuse Nero of slipping up. It should ONLY go hand in hand that BS is a NEW scumspect due to remembering the mafia's flavor along with Espy.

Matter fucking fact,

Vote: Espeonage

Two for 1 special.

[Kise]

HO SHIT, I MIGHT BE SCUM

This entire arguement is bullshit and has absolutly jack to do with this game...


VOTE: Reck

before I seriously call you Fate.

WHY ARE YOU AND SILADOR BUDDYING ME LIKE THIS?

OOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSHHHIIII-

[Kise]

Post what you have now or it didn't happen.

[Kise]

Whoever says only one partner in a lover pair can commit suicide is a liar.

LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLLLLOLOLOL QFT... BUT TO TELL THE REAL TRUTH, YOU GUYS COMMITTED SUICIDE LONG AGO.

[Kise]

My QT could use some Pray as well. Just saying.

[Kise]

There we go.

Updated with the new players.

Get ready to update again.

[Kise]

Kise, if he flips werewolf-mafia, you win...my interpretation of your system has yelled "lynch vezok, you idiots!" since Day 2.

I don't think I've mentioned vezok at all. I'll look at the day 1 wagons tonight to see how vezok and mist were placing their votes. Maybe we can lynch him. Obviously, my current choice would be to go back to Esp but you don't want that, Purp.

Pray said in the QT he may need to replace out. I'm willing to catch him up without bias. I think he said he's read about 30 pages.

[Kise]

I still find ESPEONAGE more SUSPICIOUS, you know. ._.

You know when you use caps, you get me all excited. I don't 100% see what you find is suspicious about Ashblade's one post. He isn't really being progressive with his commentary since joining the game, but as far as the quote you were referring to, I'm as lost as anyone else. You've got my attention at the end of the day.

vezok (rather ironically, because he's a lurker-poster) came up the clearest answer, based on his comparative engagement level, posting style, and grasp of the flow of the game. This interpretation means zilch, however, if vezok just ALWAYS plays with the weird combination of lurky consistent engagement that he's shown here.

As many times as I've played with vezok or seen him play in my own games, I can't remember for all the money in the world whether he does things like that as scum or town. He's been town the majority of the time I've seen him, and is pretty active on both sides of the fence, albeit minimal - size doesn't indicate anything, however.

Mist - aweful, aweful, and

aweful

Reminds me of this guy for some reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF_v_eRx1ds

Nuff fluff.

Just for everyone's reference, Reck's reads of dram have varying degrees but they are always honest. Here's a game where Reck was town (mason, if it matters) and dram was scum:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6&start=75

Reck will admit when dram is null, and when he feels he's town. I'm not minding dram myself.

I never did pick up the Emp-Llama thing from where we left off, and I'm honestly not sure if it's worth going back to resolve the exchanges they/we had. Last I remember, there was misdirection of Emp's intentions on Llama's part and before finding this out, I passively believed someone else had reason to suspect Emp. It's still unclear/unsettled who's viewpoint of the matter is incorrect. Pushing Emp to the backburner, myself.

Purp, why should I not vote Esp and/or who would my vote (or everyone's) be focused on?

[Kise]

Also, Purp, how active are you MD?

[Kise]

in MD**

[Kise]

Like a prison sentence, reck?

[Kise]

Reckamonic where's my fucking role??? You thought I forgot??

[Kise]

Woops, forgot I couldn't talk about an ongoing gam- HEY NO

[Kise]

You're looking for reasons NOT to vote us now??

I'm perfectly fine revoting Esp today. You're the more sweeter of the two, but I guess you wouldn't be an orange otherwise..... rimshot, yeah. What I instead should have said was that if not Esp, I need a more convincing option(s). Esp is a scumread of my own, but I'm willing to hear out other cases, even those of people I suspect. My personal scumread is always stronger to me than the cases on vezok, Trag, so on and so forth.

Right now, I'm honestly stumped.

Those 14 people you wanted to lynch day 2: Any of them still relevant?

I think vezok/Mist are a decent pick?

Kinda agree more now. Vezok's votehop on Trag means he was lurking/reading, but purposely ignored Grey's concerns. Instead, he made sure to act on impulse and jump on lil ol' Trag.

Speaking of her, I'm actually lending credibility to dram's catch. You guys know how I mark out at slips like this ITT rite? I could believe it. Others have found the pair scummy at individual times, so if this is a slip, it looks like it's actually worth something with the suspicion already cast on them. There's been a few decent cases, though they never reached a lynch obviously. I'd actually be cool if everyone but the highest rated town-picks were speedlynched. It's like, if this many players think they have good leads, let's go ahead and get them out the way and see what we're left with (if anything) after getting rid of the scummy ones. I don't see why order of elimination matters.

[Kise]

Your priorities are still out of order, sir.

[Kise]

[Kise]

Kise explain the animation

[Kise]

Vote Esp QWICK, b4 Purp come bakk .

---

Not sure if vezok means

how

everyone stands, or

where

. If how, then it read more like "how everyone reacts." The word where would've made more sense. I'm not liking his unvote and revote on the same page after he finds out others are willing to lynch Tragedy. There's also no real reason not to tell everyone what the disagreement supposedly is in the lover QT. If you have differing opinions, then that's that. It's nothing to hide.

That is for me to know and you to find out.

So vez is making a case? You can still tease us by giving your side of this argument. But I'll lend vez my

ears

eyes.

[Kise]

Vote: vezok

FLACKA!

[Kise]

I see your question, but I just came to

Vote: Esp

for now. I promise you guys won't be quicklynched.

[Kise]

HEY PURP.. CUT THE CRAP. NO MATTER HOW MANY DAMN QUESTIONS YOU ASK ME IM NOT CHANGING MY MIND ON YOUR PAIR. DONT ACT LIKE YOU WERENT TRYING TO LYNCH 14 OTHER MOTHERFUCKERS. THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT PEOPLE STARTED TALKING NOW, AND CASES WERE BEING PRESENTED, AND THERE WAS NO NEED TO LYNCH PEOPLE FOR THE SAKE OF ACTIIVITY LIKE YOU PROPOSED. WEVE TALKED LONG ENOUGH TO ESTABLISH CONNECTIONS SO YOU CAAN STOP RIGHT THERE. QUICKLYNCHING THE SHIT OUTTA SCUMMY COUPLES SHOULD NET WEREWOLF AND IF NOT THEN THAT MEANS SOME OF US ARENT PERFECT SCUMHUNTERS OR ARE SCUM OUR DAMN SELVES. DAY FUCKING ONE, ESP SAYS WE NEED MOAR CONTENT BUT DIDNT FUCKIN GIVE ANY. I CALLED HIM OUT AND I GUESS IT LOOKS LIKE 3 OTHER WOLFPACKERS COACHED HIM BECAUSE EH ACTUALLY STARTED MAKING SENSE. WHEN YOU GUYS FLIP WEREWOLF, THX FOR CONFUCKING FIRMING MME AS TOWN AT THIS POINT BECAUSE YOUVE BEEN BUGGING THE SHIT OUTTA ME. ARE YOU SCUM OR TOWNHUNTING ME FFS? GREY, WASNT YOUR CASE THAT I COULDA BUSSED KCD?.... OH IM CLEAR OF THAT NOW SO WHY ARE

[Kise]

PHONE FUCKING SHORTED THE MESSAGE, SO GREY WHY ARE YOU ON MY NUTS AGAIN?

[Kise]

Honestly Huh

[Kise]

Espy and myself will need to die for the town to have a shot at winning.

Exactly, town needs to lynch the wolves.

You honestly still think we should fast-pace quicklynch people? (I also read an implied "with no regard for what they actually flip...we just need to get this list of people out of the way before we can move on," due to the "order doesn't matter" part).

It worked with vezok. We found him scummy and cot damn did it work. I don't care if I'm threatened to be lynched at some point. I helped lynched the mafia pairs, but they weren't original cases of mine, I admit. My original cases fall in line with your pair, Reck/Nero, and Emp. Right now I'd hold it at just your pair, possibly Emp, and least likely but possibly Ashblade for something I went over yesterday that I've noticed in his posting.

I think your plan sucks. Um...here. For others more than you, or maybe for town-you tomorrow if I die today.

Wah!?!? Rephrase, please.

* I'm coming from the perspective of figuring Espy and myself are going to HAVE to be the third lynch if scum isn't hit in the first two.

No, the first lynch starting now. I've been trying to get this done since day 1, but this is how the game is played: You share your suspects, and help others lynch their suspects if you agree with the points or find the person in question to be scummy as well. Hopefully I get my turn today and Esp is lynched, FINALLY.

* Every connection and every vote will count if we go into lylo.

Your fear spreading antics do not work when I am under the protected of Athena's barrier.

Especially if we don't flip another scum before then. I don't know if we have enough connections yet.

I don't think anyone found a connection between vezok/Mist & KCD/BS, BUT HEY, we still got their asses strung up. I did drop the ball by saying KCD probably wasn't bussed, when in fact vezok voted him early on.

But I

do

know the lynch method you're proposing will ensure that the minimum the amount of new connections and associations will be able to be drawn from each lynch.

People can still be individually scummy is what I'm getting at.

[Kise]

Do I need to actually quote the simple shit in life that makes Esp scum, PO?

[Kise]

You do realize that Purp did this to me at one time or another, Esp? That's why I'm tired of going into a quote-exchange with her because she's doing nothing other than wasting my time. She's not bringing up new points. If anything, she's aggravating me until I say something off-color to use against me.

[Kise]

GREY, WASNT YOUR CASE THAT I COULDA BUSSED KCD?.... OH IM CLEAR OF THAT NOW SO WHY ARE

PHONE FUCKING SHORTED THE MESSAGE, SO GREY WHY ARE YOU ON MY NUTS AGAIN?

[Kise]

* Wouldn't talking to me about Espy be a bit pointless, given your present convictions?

Dunno, dun care.

* See point 2 inside for the rephrase.

NTY

*

I

voted for vezok/Mist due to connections.

K

* Lynches that happen to proceed quickly =/= what you were proposing (or what I thought you were proposing).
* What you were proposing would decrease our ability to identify even some of those "individually scummy" things.

No, because there's quite a few players who are individually scummy, so why wait?

Answers bolded. One thing I don't like is how scum also agree with my plan:

Also adding that to what reck (I think it was reck) said earlier about just choosing a couple of lynches and running with them for a bit actually makes sense at this point in the game.

Kise originally suggested it, I expanded on it... but I'll take the credit for it all the same.

Vote your partner, PO. He's just as guilty as me if you really want to go there.

[Kise]

Quote fuck up. Trust me though, Esp wrote this.

The worst thing about this post is that it's true. Also adding that to what reck (I think it was reck) said earlier about just choosing a couple of lynches and running with them for a bit actually makes sense at this point in the game.

Unvote, Vote: vezok

[Kise]

Reminder..

@ Kise.

I think you're scummy because of your quicklynch proposal

.

Checkmate.

[Kise]

"Nothing" is a big word to use in this situation - limited, and a misrep, as my iso can disprove that. I've been on PO and Esp since page 3 or 4. Page 1 of my iso has the info for Esp-scum. You guys got your KCD lynch.. you got your vezok lynch.. now gimme my Esp lynch.

[Kise]

To make it easier for you, read Esp's iso #7. Then scroll up and read his iso #'s 1 through 6 and tell me if he's progressing towards the agenda he claims we all should strive for. Simple scumtells, nothing hard.

[Kise]

Espeonage - scummy as fuck. Sorry, PO, but unfortunately you're an excellent player, and that means I'm less sure of my town read on you, and your partner is a scumbag

Why did you just try to build a counterwagon on me if you agree that Esp is scummy?

[Kise]

Espeonage - scummy as fuck. Sorry, PO, but unfortunately you're an excellent player, and that means I'm less sure of my town read on you, and your partner is a scumbag

Why did you just try to build a counterwagon on me if you agree that Esp is scummy?

[Kise]

Mhmm. Esp-PO was also more likely scum than my pair, according to that quote. The plot thickens...

Reck: Is this your last game period, or just your last normal game?

P-Edit: Thanks for misrepping me again, Grey. If & when Esp flips werewolf, guess who's likely to get shot with a silver bullet next? Keep in mind that no one here is proven pro-town. If anything, you've been anti-mafia, is all. I went through you & AH's iso last night and I believe you two seemed more concerned with finding KCD's partner than hunting wolves, post-day 3. I'll check again to verify.

Not much to add although Kise is making me seriously nervous as of late.

Don't get OMGUSy on me just yet. I may have actually misjudged you with Grey & PO's recent interactions coming out of the blue.

[Kise]

I already shut down every reason you had for "suspecting" me. If you came up with some new things tho, then feel free to keep up the act. Gotta say im more worried with grey at the moment and his intent to lynch quite a few players, including nagging reck about dram's pair. Llama and ash are probs. Iso'ing Ash shows me he tends to comment on irrelevent things. And Purp, since you missed it the first time I said this: no one here is anything more than anti-mafia at the moment, but im not about to tell others they cant have townreads. Until someone proves themselves for lynching a wolf, I cant consider who's truly lookinh out for town. When I earlier said

everyone's

top townreads, that meant everyone else's. At the same time, this is not saying/implying i have scumreads on everyone. Sorry for the big block. Im on my phone.

[Kise]

I'll give you a chance here, purp..... @emp & llama: did you two ever settle your dispute earlier? Llama had apparently misread one of your statements, emp, and you told me i was also reading it wrong.

[Kise]

No Screw That. Vote Stays. Esp Is Scum.

[Kise]

Okaykaykay.

[Kise]

O I SEE WHAT YU TRYNA DO, YOU $%(*" LITTLE #$^$ DON'T EVEN.

[Kise]

mod: i believe u may want 2 read praypiot's very last post in the kise/implosion qt.

*whistlewhistlewhistle*

[Kise]

Okay.. so ur supposed to be sold on me as scum, right? If so, why are you still questioning me / trying to figure me out? Your continued q&a method comes across more as you trying desperately to find SOMETHING to use against me. I'm tempted to completely ignore you because ur dragging me in circles.

[Kise]

I Need A Lover That Actually Works Without Batteries.

[Kise]

Getting townreads from me is irrelevent when I've explicably called po-esp, grey, and ashblade as the likely scum in that order. So then... guess whos left to fill those town spots? I am very comfortable with leaving the game in a reck-nero-dram-?-trag-? finale if it ever came to that. Just fucking lynch esp and if theyre town then lynch me without a fight. Seriously. Not once did i imply i wanted to survive to endgame, as i know im not everyone's top town read. I already felt like i would be a quick-lynchee for my OWN proposal. If you thought i care about living til endgame, i dont. What i dont want is for PO to claw her pair out of a lynch when its been obvious to me at least that theyre not worth keeping around. "Walking" contradictions. PO's old case was shut down, but shes found new things to call me scummy for? lololol. She cant decide whether i have a chance of being town or obvscum? lolololol.

[Kise]

You love me too much to do that, Trag.

So what are we doing?

Voting Espeonage or PurpleOrange. But, a vote for Espeonage would speed things up.

@PO: I see no point in continuing the back and forth with you. I'm sorry, but that's the reality of my mindset. In my opinion, you have no reason to be so self-preserving when werewolves cannot endgame until day 9 as it is; based off you saying, "Wait to vote Esp & myself if there's two mislynches." There's no reliable reason you should be around, I think to myself. I asked you the other day who we should lynch and you told meeeeeee...

Purp, why should I not vote Esp and/or who would my vote (or everyone's) be focused on?

You're looking for reasons NOT to vote us now??

Right now, I'm honestly stumped. Silavor/Haylen NOT flipping scum confuses the hell out of me.

(kcdaspice flipping scum wasn't this much of a shock, because they fit the overall profile of how I thought most scum were acting; it was the concrete naggling fact of kcda/BS interaction that held me back when it came to them. So if anything, their scumflip made me MORE confident my read on silavor/Haylen was right).

I

think vezok/Mist are a decent pick?

(But as mafia-mafia, not werewolf-mafia). There's the defense of kcdaspice on Day 1, coupled with voting for them 5th on Day 2 (shows up as 3rd vote on the final votecount, but when he cast it, it was the 5th), which happened after kcda made his awful post that started the flood of EVERYONE voting for them. Including Baby Spice (8th vote). Activity level also matches the kcda trainwreck decently well.

But...but.

Am crazily hesitant

to keep plunging away under the momentum of my assumptions there, as I was damn wrong on silavor/Haylen. And I don't like that I've only ended up with one pair as serious suspects today. I'll get back to you with a better answer after I get a chance to fully reread the thread. :/

The bolded parts are pretty much why I don't view you as reliable enough to pardon for Esp's scumminess. I thought it was telling that you

asked

whether vez & Mist were a decent pick. If you REALLY, BADLY enough want me to respond to your recent posts this week, it's going to be a thick QbQ wall. I'm not inspired when it appears that you've desperately been digging up things for us to talk about, which makes me automatically view you as clawing.

Also, didn't you say I win?:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2843977

Yeah. You did. Gracefully bow down to the champ

[Kise]

MOD: PrayPiotr has not posted since February 21st. He last posted in the quicktopic March 1st, saying he would get around to the thread the next day. He hasn't. He also said he was considering replacing out.

[Kise]

Maryita and werewolf555 have requested replacement. They will be replaced as soon as possible,

in that order

.

Xalxe replaces in.

By request

, he will be replacing werewolf555.

Papa Zito replaces Mariyta, effective immediately.

Xalxe, why did you request werewolf's slot > Mari's? (hope I got the assumption right)

[Kise]

Holy fucking shit. No, no, nonono. It's the other way around, Ash. You only now started to throw my name out there on March 9th. I said this on March 2nd:

I still find ESPEONAGE more SUSPICIOUS, you know. ._.

You know when you use caps, you get me all excited. I don't 100% see what you find is suspicious about Ashblade's one post. He isn't really being progressive with his commentary since joining the game, but as far as the quote you were referring to, I'm as lost as anyone else. You've got my attention at the end of the day.

Followed up on March 7th with this:

Espy and myself will need to die for the town to have a shot at winning.

Exactly, town needs to lynch the wolves.

You honestly still think we should fast-pace quicklynch people? (I also read an implied "with no regard for what they actually flip...we just need to get this list of people out of the way before we can move on," due to the "order doesn't matter" part).

It worked with vezok. We found him scummy and cot damn did it work. I don't care if I'm threatened to be lynched at some point. I helped lynched the mafia pairs, but they weren't original cases of mine, I admit. My original cases fall in line with your pair, Reck/Nero, and Emp. Right now I'd hold it at just your pair, possibly Emp, and least likely but possibly

Ashblade for something I went over yesterday that I've noticed in his posting.

You and Llama only recently decided to switch your stances towards me after I threw suspicion your way. Also from March 9th:

Llama and ash are probs. Iso'ing Ash shows me he tends to comment on irrelevent things.

FOH..

But really, Kise's posts are hell away from townie and I don't know why anyone can read it as such. I've been mulling this over all day and

all he's doing is putting people as scum as EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH HIM.

Another ugly-as-all-hell misrep. So let's see here: Trag' wants us to see something wrong with one of your posts and I make note of how you comment on the most irrelevant of things - you've been little more than a glorified fluffer. I keep in mind your lack of content and notice you keep the trend up, not providing ANY ounce of content to the game. Suddenly, Llama feels the need to get me out today, and you

magically

also have the same thoughts after waking up this morning. Right. Because I bet you had dreams about this game, pondering oh so deeply about how Kise is so gosh darn scummy.

You pulled a 180 out of your ass, going from this on March 8th:

VOTE: Espeonage

His play and hunting has the luxury of being there without being there to me. Yeah he thinks Tragedy and Mariyta are scum, but that's about all I can really make out of it besides some words on Kise (I don't think he's shared why Kise is scum either).

Personally I also think PO is stretching Kise's points to anti-sugar coat this wagon as much as possible

(instead of making good reasons why she shouldn't be lynched, she's more suggesting why she shouldn't be lynched quickly.)

To NOW thinking that Purp is making good points against me... GTFO. FLIPPED YOUR STANCE IN LESS THAN 3 DAYS, REALLY? IS SHE SUGAR COATING MA SHIT OR AM I THE ONE NOT LOOKING SO GOOD?

[Kise]

AREY OU READING ASH ATA LL, YOU SELF-PRESERVING #$% 432%$#? YOU THINK YOU"RE MISTER WONDERFUL ALL A SUDDEN? PURP WOULDNT BE BOTHERING ME IF I WASNT VOTING YOU DIE-HARD .

TRuth be told Esp, I'm not sure if Llama and Ash would bus you like this. Ash's misrep/self-preservation/whatever the hell that was has invoked the fury. I don't expect Ash to get around to responding back for another 3-4 days.

[Kise]

unvote and vote: ashblade

I do see, purp. Way i see it, ash and llama were fine with lynching espy until i mentioned that i didnt like ash's post. This might suck for some of you but i now would see ash and llama being OMGUSy as a motherfugga. Purp, ur a townie fighting hard? yeah, with the way ash is ridiculously saying hes thinking about this game yesterday morning, he looks like lying scum... with only wolves left, and with their vote on esp, dont see a bus so opportunistic. i know i sound like a retard but im on phone so lets flip ash as wolf and see if we can semi confirm purp, esp and me yooo

[Kise]

I need to reread Grey & Reck; I haven't in forever because their ISOs are so long, but they've been sitting on general townreads for awhile and I want to make sure those are justified.

fluff post ....... sorry purp & esp?

[Kise]

Tunnel Purple? Fair enough, as i was convinced about esp and didnt like her persistance. Grey is not on my scumlist for disagreeing with me. He is suspicious due to building counterwagons EVEN THO "Esp is scummy as fuck" to him. This, and if you read him after KCD flipped, him and anti were actively trying to connect players to the mafia team. Why they werent equally considering players as wolves, is what i find fishy now that we're left w/ town vs. wolves. As for you Ash, I suspected you daaaays before you "disagreed" w/ my tunneling.... HEY YO, WERENT YOU VOTING ESP TOO? OH YEH, UP UNTIL I SAW HOW ALL YOU DO IS COMMIT YOURSELF TO OTHER WAGONS OR ARTICLES THAT ARE NON_PROGRESSIVE. "I bet werewolf55 sits at home all day and goes"_ IT DOESNT MATTER WHERE HE GOES. HOW BOUT ANOTHER TWISTING OF MY VIEWS, ASH? BET YET, ++[;[ (& $&% [\@!! ~^#/ /^;.

[Kise]

Last part should say "llama do you agree with him?" i had the symbol key locked. And for the record, ive been non_preservational since day 1 when i suggested lynching both reck and me if the first person flipped town. Lynch MY PARTNER now to prove im town and not bullshitting, then you please take my word that ash and llama pulled a 180 in regards to po, esp and myself. If ash/llama are lynched first and flip wolf like i suspect, i think that'd semi-clear esp, purp, trag, myself and our partners. Emp is another possibility as i remember seeing Ash try to justify a pending wagonhop on emp, only to vote for the popular lynchee instead of emp.

[Kise]

***emp is another possibility as semi cleared, pending an ash/llama werewolf flip

[Kise]

TL;DR = Ash says Purp is misusing my comments and sheès the scum. Soon after, Ashès fluff was pointed out by me. Him and his partner vote me, then try to cover up and say I only suspect his pair after they suspected me, which is false, though he continually ignores the evidence I brought up to disprove him and still insists that his pair suspected me before I suspected them.

I find this ignorance to be blatant, which in turn does not come from town.

[Kise]

If others see the reward of clearing a few lovers, then yes we can do it. I may be alone with finding Grey to be scum, but I have a link for you. If Esp & PO are scum, I doubt theyre grouped with Ash & Llama due to their wagonhopping, BUT I do think Purp & Esp would be partners with Grey & Anti due to Grey building counterwagons and setting up others for plausible reasons as to why he will be voting them next. If Ash & Llama are scum, as I said, we can eliminate a few lovers from being most likely partners due to horrible wagon hopping and ignorance from both Ash & Llama - Llama seems selective with what he has been commenting on, lately. If Grey & Anti are scum (and I do not see them as a lynch today), then we really get nothing to work with because that does not say much about who they are partnered with, so theres not as big a reward for lynching them.

I feel that by using PoE, if Ash & Llama flipped scum today then the werewolf field is narrowed down a helluva lot more. Between Ash, Llama, & Grey, they have not done much in the way of mentioning each other other than an occasional "I want to hear more from you" or "such and such are town." Realistically, Reck? All it takes is influence and popularity to attract people into voting out Ash. What I dont want is to be lynched, flip town obviously I will say, and then players go right back over to Esp & Purp. Reason being? I dont (currently) view them as scum any more - my reason to begin with was independent of other players, so there was no connection I drew from others until Grey came along with the counterwagons. Why I now view them as town is due to Ash's continued misrepping of myself, his contradicting "opinions" towards both PO and myself, his neglect to acknowledge I suspected him nearly a week before he "suspected" myself (a.k.a. lying), and also a personal assumption that Ash would not have tried to take a shit all over Purp's replies to me if the two of them were partners.

There is no TL;DR version so plz soak all that up. If Ash flips werewolf, its pretty damn safe to say that those of us who his pair have been shitting on and voting are as close to confirmed town as you can have - PO & Esp, Trag & the replacement, and likely Emp's pairing as well. I say Emp as well because Ash was setting up an Emp vote when he first came in (which is when he instead decided to wagon the popular lynchee), and also I remember thinking that Llama had misrepped Emp and I blindly took Llama's word instead of researching myself. To me, that would point to Emp being town post-werewolf flippage of Ash.

[Kise]

More important than gaining votes on Ash though, Reck, I really do want people to see him as scum instead of thinking I'm dragging them into finding him scummy. The fact of the matter is that he has misrepped my suspicion of him as, "oh you only saying I'm scum cus I said it to you first." Not true. I've pulled out the quotes and even dated the areas proving exactly who suspected who first. Ash has not acknowledged this fact, and his ignorance tells me he is hoping people take his word for it instead of manning up and admitting I suspected him first. Sounds childish, but that's reality.

[Kise]

Not stall, just hit the brakes to a screeching halt and switch directions. Look, I was as die-hard as perhaps you are right now towards PO, but I will admit again that I found Esp to be independently scummy. I find Ash to be scummy, but doubt Esp would have been bussed by him and Llama. I find Ash's lying to be more indicative of scum than Esp's page 2 thingamajig.

[Kise]

For one, uncertainty as to whether he and his buddies are considered top town reads, ergo whether they would be possible lynchees. For two, he could play the "I told you so" card if there is an abundance of mislynches behind that.

Keep in mind that since we're in town vs. wolves currently, the wolves don't have to worry about eliminating the mafia. Grey was so sure of himself when lynching these last four days, but now that there's only werewolves left, he wants to go the route of being careful with his vote all of a sudden. I expect he wants to play the "ITYS" angle, as hinted by quotes such as "I'm going after you next, especially if she flips town." Then, labeling Tragedy & Mari as town giving up hints that he is aware of what will happen post flip, so he's taking the necessary steps to ensure his hands are not dirty by the time endgame approaches.

[Kise]

Nero lol... you think I would throw Esp under the bus on day 1? Page 2/3/whatever? When there was still a chance for me to get labeled as the other scum early on? That would have ended my team's chances right there if I successfully got Esp lynched day 1. People would not have ruled out me being on the other scumteam. Strategically speaking, I would never do that as scum, especially considering I was the ONLY person to point fingers at Esp. I could see if Esp had cases against him that I could slip onto, but I'm not going to provide an original case when no one else is looking at my buddy.

We've hydra'd as scum twice, though in reasonably VI-filled games. You know I don't care to bus on day 1 as much as I do set up cases against townies. I don't even defend on day 1 as scum.

Now please tell me you've read the recent arguments in full.

P-edit:
Trag, we could actually clear Esp too if Ash flips werewolf. The bigger picture I'm alluding to is that we could possibly put 8 of us in a pool of players that are least likely to be wolves in the event Ash flips wolf. You put us in that pool and we're looking at Grey next. And although I feel that would be game after his team's lynch, the last teams left would be dram/PZ & Nero/Reck, versus 8 other players that Ash/Llama (pending wolf flip) practically shitted on vehemently.

In the same right, I would say this is what makes it clear that Esp/PO are not buddies with me. There's a certain level of genuine intensity that makes it clear when players are or are not partnered.

[Kise]

If Ash is scum, Esp, Kise, Trag, Emp and our lovers are not [likely] scum.

[Kise]

Grey/Antihero.

[Kise]

It shouldn't come down to you guys, dram. Ash/Llama, then Grey/Anti and it's GG.

Nero, I'm not sure you follow me. The arguments I'm referring to are against Ash, not Esp. Ash is the one lying about things. Esp is at least innocent from blatantly lying like Ash is.

[Kise]

Here's a neat timeline for you all.

Not much to add although Kise is making me seriously

nervous

as of late.

Don't get OMGUSy on me just yet. I may have actually misjudged you with Grey & PO's recent interactions coming out of the blue.

You didn't even put us on the table until I said I was uncomfortable with you. Seriously though this is almost obvious that one of your groups are scum, and your reactions are making it look like it's you.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2868511

Can you bulletpoint what's wrong with Kise then?

Tunnel hyperdrive on PO until he couldn't handle it anymore.
Added Grey to the list when he disagreed with the excess tunneling.

Added me when I didn't like the tunneling either

, and is now voting me instead of the person he thought was SO SURE, that PO and Esp would flip scum.

That last bolded line shows Ash's persistent denial in an attempt to make it look like I suspected him afterwards. He's listed a jumbled amount of reasons to hinder my credibility as well as twist my actual views. Where o where did I say I you were scum for disagreeing with my tunneling, Ash? This post should clearly show Ash for the misrepresenting, lying scumbag he is.

Please give a simple yes or no: Does anyone else see Ash as misrepping/lying?

[Kise]

Yes or no? Don't be a fuckboy about it. Answer the question.

[Kise]

Pray said in the QT he may need a replacement. I can actually pull some people in here that like New York games. I remember Ether saying she likes replacing into games because she always lands a town role...

/inb4smartasscomment

[Kise]

Yes or no, Reck?

He's flipping out because he knows he's next after Ash flips wolf.

[Kise]

I figured no one was paying attention to my case. Ash is at the point of no return. He had a chance to man up to the false information he threw out there, but he chose to go to obvscum land and play with the mafia's dead bodies.

[Kise]

Please give a simple yes or no: Does anyone else see Ash as misrepping/lying?

Yes. (How the hell don't people see this?).

I think the intention is to get our pairs out of the way. Yes, we've dragged the day on... but why was there no steam when I called to vote Esp at first? Everyone dragged, and now that I found the real scum in Ash, everyone's too lazy to look his way. Oddly enough, they all of a sudden start agreeing with either voting Esp or myself, to end the day.

I'm pretty fucking sure Grey & Anti are scum with somebody, and that's the one pair I have confidence in. Ash is just flufftastic and I'm hoping to hell he's just a townie covering his own ass by not admitting to the misrep. I think with the way no one is really looking out for your pair, PO, you are leaning closer to town.

The thing I fear is that the reasons I listed against Grey & Anti will be overlooked in my death, and further in the game there will be no reason for anyone to suspect them as everyone else in this game has at least one case against them.

Reck if I'm lynched and you see I'm town, where would YOU go from there?

[Kise]

Grey, plz. Leave no wiggle room. No second guessing.

[Kise]

Yes.... do you plan to read my posts?

[Kise]

Tunnel Purple? Fair enough

I've admitted to that.

[Kise]

With no werewolves flipped, does anyone have a great reason why others can be viewed as pro-town?

[Kise]

What the fuck's your problem?

[Kise]

Excuse me, how the fuck are we scummy as hell? You AND Kise have never explained this one anywhere near adequately. It looks like you're trying to hold open our mislynch if people are up for it while preparing yourself for a Town flip.

And the reason you're concerned about getting lynched if we flip town is..? I thought werewolves had days to go before winning with a full team. There's no reason for concern. I get the hint that you have a pre-planned posts that goes over how mega holy of a townie you are. Go ahead and post it, as I'm pretty sure you have it sitting in your 'My Documents' folder.. Just As Planned..

I will say [again] that Reck has no problem admitting when dram is scum or null. I myself know a bit about dram's play, so I wouldn't use his every-game actions to judge him, LF.

[Kise]

Um...you realize Llamafluff is Kise's partner, right, guys?

Stop trying to get us lynched. We need to clear each other via the Ash-wagon.
I think it's funny that I started out as the tunneler, and now no one wants to back off Esp to consider an Ash lynch. Pretty please switch to Ash, guys?

[Kise]

So we flip Ash instead.

[Kise]

Would you hammer Ash if we could ever get a wagon going, Reck?

[Kise]

PO, you do realize that if I'm scum (and you're supposed to be town here), I could have had your slot mislynched by now. Llama + me + Reck hammer would spell the end for you and Esp. Since it's become obvious we're not in a QT together, or even if we were, I have not tried to get a mislynch D5. If I was scum, I would benefit heavily from putting you and Esp away to buy time for whoever my partner may be. What is the scum gain from saving you two? Everyone has already said there's no way we could be partners, so no one should accuse me of saving you as my partner, in the same right.

The stupid part about this all is that once one of us flip town, everyone will likely ignore the cases brought up and instead try to lynch the other one of us D6. Laziness. There's nothing hard about bolding an unvote at all. I'm not the one tunneling any more.

[Kise]

Yeah, keep them in your sights.

@marble:
Ash has twice (or thrice, not sure) tried to accuse me of only looking at you two after you two voted towards me. He ignored evidence I brought up twice and continued to claim otherwise, which looks like he's purposely trying to misuse the fact(s). He's also quite contradicting when it comes to his opinion of PO's case against me, to then forgetting all about her "sugar coating" and saying I've been scummy all along. All in all, he's just hopping on whoever has the most votes, like he has done all game. For that, you may want to take a look at why he voted silador - he should have gone for Emp, given the exact post where he votes sil.

[Kise]

Well Llama, let's be fair and non-textbook here. I never mentioned vezok and probably a few others, but as we can see, that doesn't mean I distanced from him. I'd say the same in dram's case, as you related him to Ash & Llama. If I/we don't want to mention people, I'm probably tunneling on others.

Check the QT, plz.

[Kise]

Meh. If I may make a suggestion: keep the teams of Tragedy, dramonic & Hiraki-Emp alive FTTW. I'm still okay with speedlynching, but it wouldn't make sense to go for Esp & PO after me since you've had flip-floppers voting both of us.

[Kise]

Lol, I can already sense we'll be considered for lynches back-to-back due to a town flip from the other team. I can activate self-preservation mode if you want me to and vote for them. I'm not self-voting, however.

[Kise]

Question for all: Would bandwagoning in this current scenario be more likely to come from town or werewolf?
Optional question: Why?

[Kise]

Im trying to convince Kise in the QT to do the same.

:usurped:

[Kise]

i would if u dont ninja me like that....

unvote; vote: Espeonage

[Kise]

so a lot of u folks like ash and marble?

[Kise]

You never said why you voted me in the first/second place though. You're not helping here and i tried to help us both...... so NOW you think ash is scum? Im not switching votes again damn it. My reason 4 thinking u and purp are town is due to Ash's craptastic contradictions, which led me to sussing him

[Kise]

@hiraki: i can get on board with voting them. Grey was strange when it came to esp's wagon earlier this phase. Coulda been stalling esp's lynch intentionally. If ur asking me if i think ur scum: not at the moment. Hence why i said leave you, dram and trag alive to win the game. I feel like eliminating everyone else would kill the wolves 4 sure. Im basing this on liveliness of slots, since replacements that share their lover's opinions rather than

others'

makes me less suspect 4-person QTs.

[Kise]

Now I see why PO made your cases for you. I was on boat with Fluff about you being town, but considering that I still made a link between you and Grey, I'd risk it just to see if I was right. Grey lynched the shit out of people the first four days but your wagon at the start of today made him build counterwagons. That's weird stuff, to me.

[Kise]

Yeah, you wanted to lynch me day 3 in case I bussed KCD, as I remember it.

[Kise]

So you and Grey pegged the scum day 1 in this other game?

[Kise]

What harm..? Lolollolololololooloo. Stop, plz.

[Kise]

As another person with dram-meta, his actions in this game do not indicate him as scum IMO. I knew dram before Reck, FYI... though you may question the strength of both relationships (fair enough).

Snapback

?

[Kise]

Based on what was said, xalxe requested replacement. 4-person qts are more likely to generate active scummers IMO. The mafia didn't provide much content, but they posted at the very least. I have never defined lurking as a scumtell either, btw.

[Kise]

Because he's decided that me and ash are scum together, so everyone else is town.
It's classic tunneling.

Sens, I'll be needing ANOTHER lover

[Kise]

Should've voted Ashblade. Hard head.

[Kise]

ON WHAT FUCKING GROUNDS, THAT I COULDA BUSSED KCD??

How bout you Ash? Because PO was no longer sugar coating my comments and you had a change of <3?

dram & Reck are as near confirmed town as you can get. Nero would have been active in a 4-person QT. Now if LF can share my world, we'll be forming an alliance soon enough.

Esp & PO as town = Ash & Grey & their peoples as wolves. Your reason (if I can define it) for switching opinions of Esp & myself don't make sense to me, Ash.

[Kise]

Yes I'm serious dram.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2818146

Look at the exchanges between Grey and myself. Read his reason for suspecting me. He was always concerned about finding KCD's partner - Antihero the same. After we lynched vezok... what were your reasons then, Grey?

VOTE: GREYICE

RAWR, RAWR, RAWR!

[Kise]

Or Antihero, if it'll get you off dram, LF.

But I do want Xalxe burned to the ground.

Nah.

[Kise]

Because he's getting replaced, which is now backup mod-confirmed.

Bored
Xalxe
was
bored...not scummy.

LF, you still think AH is scum? Let's go for that today.

[Kise]

Reck, I threw the vote down for you D5. I need you today. Ignore LF - the dram votes will go nowhere.

[Kise]

Well, he could sit back and let others [INSERT LF & ZITO] attack dram. Dram's pair flips town and he's regarded as a savior... Grey was on every lynch the first four days (well, five, but my point lies in his D1-D4 votes). As a wolf, he has every intention to eliminate the other scum. Now that there's no competition, he can gain play the manipulation game and work on credibility. It's the same reason he keeps shoving the fact that he "caught" vezok's scum meta down our towns - to brainwash everyone into seeing him as good for the town. My perspective of GI's scum moves are pretty simple:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2859073
^Grey is around, but waiting.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2859215
^Check the placement of votes. Scroll down that page to get an idea of how others eventually voted.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2860222
^Now he's found a way to defy the impending mislynch of Esp so he gets his balls sucked D6, while also opening up the Kise-lynch. (do I need to even say mislynch?)

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2860651
^Interrogation time.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2860672
^GI snubs me for his next 5 posts.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2862100
^Below that, I get an answer from him. He provides an escape with "still

know

think they'll flip town." Okay, so who was #2 after me on the scumlist(?)

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2862126
^You caught that as well, Reck.

Even now, most of you are brainwashed by the false white knight that is GreyICE. That was the plan. He's been bombarding this thread with shouts of "Kise is scum" to some degree, which conditionally may or may not make the rest believe that notion. Thing is, there was certainty shown when GI built the counterwagon yesterday. Town lovers know nothing about the next person. There shouldn't have been certainty or gut. Hell, EVERYONE has at one point in time voted for Esp... but Grey's magical guts go against the grain and tell him she was town. Sure thing.

[Kise]

I slung shots, but I don't remember voting. I wanted Ash lynched in the end, but of course no one saw that. I think I at least have LF agreeing about AH so I'll roll with this to at least lower the werewolves' numbers.

[Kise]

That was rushed. Lemme fix.

Well, he could sit back and let others [INSERT LF & ZITO] attack dram. Dram's pair flips town and he's regarded as a savior... Grey was on every lynch the first four days (well, five, but my point lies in his D1-D4 votes). As a wolf, he has every intention to eliminate the other scum. Now that there's no competition, he can

gain

play the manipulation game and work on credibility. It's the same reason he keeps shoving the fact that he "caught" vezok's scum meta down our

throats

- to brainwash everyone into seeing him as good for the town.

[Kise]

RECK READ MA SHIT THIS TIME
IMA REALLY NEED YOUR UNDERSTANDING

[Kise]

[Kise]

Everyone who thinks GI is town: WHAT MAKES HIM TOWN?

[Kise]

Of course that was before I called Esp & PO town... but sure, you can take me lynch today.

<_<

[Kise]

And now I talk like a pirate.

[Kise]

When i can properly quote/link at home, scum are dead fuggin meat. It would have helped you guys if you could find something and NOT have to twist it out of context. FUCKED.

[Kise]

Don't buy the bullshit, Emp. It's all quoted out of order. I'm serving Ash's ass last. Grey first. Post(s) incoming within the hour.

[Kise]

OH GIMME A BREAK.

Oooo, bring on the caps and hope they fall for the act. You're raging over a vote from Nero. Bad nerves, I know. No matter how hard you whine, it's ingenuine caps-rage. It's just 2 votes on you and you already had to preemptively bring out the caps. FOH.

HE UNVOTED WHEN PO WAS AT L-2. HERE'S THE POST:

unvote and vote: ashblade

I do see, purp. Way i see it, ash and llama were fine with lynching espy until i mentioned that i didnt like ash's post. This might suck for some of you but i now would see ash and llama being OMGUSy as a motherfugga. Purp, ur a townie fighting hard? yeah, with the way ash is ridiculously saying hes thinking about this game yesterday morning, he looks like lying scum... with only wolves left, and with their vote on esp, dont see a bus so opportunistic. i know i sound like a retard but im on phone so lets flip ash as wolf and see if we can semi confirm purp, esp and me yooo

Here's what he says to PO AFTER BLATANTLY BUDDYING HER

You never said why you voted me in the first/second place though. You're not helping here and i tried to help us both...... so NOW you think ash is scum? Im not switching votes again damn it. My reason 4 thinking u and purp are town is due to Ash's craptastic contradictions, which led me to sussing him

Yeah, Esp needed to learn a lesson, and I didn't go soft on him. That's tough love. In future games, and now that he's in the dead QT and knows who's who, maybe he will quit being a hard head and fucking listen when someone like me reevaluates the situation and actually tries to look out for him in the long run. It took a mighty long time for me to catch LM & Ash slipping, but once they pulled the 180 from Esp to me, I knew something was up. PO herself even mentioned how hard she was fighting the lynch and how alone her pair was, and it opened my eyes. My post following hers was when I switched over to Ashblade. But, of course, I'm sure PO and Esp only wanted to lynch me so they stayed alive. I called them out on self-preservation many times, and in the end I took that same road - Insult to injury? Maybe. It's a learning experience.

They'll remember for the rest of their mafiascum.net careers that reevaluating the situation (and going for Ash/LM) would have served them much better than trying to ensure there was a guaranteed counterwagon (myself). Had we put enough votes on Ash, then both Esp and myself would have steered away from being lynched, and likely gotten everyone else to also check into Ashblade. I tunneled Esp for the longest, then I got off his case and tried to prevent others from tunneling as well. But oh well. Esp was not getting remorse from me by saying he suddenly found Ashblade scummy at the last minute. My heart is a fucking ice box. I don't fall for appeal. Keeping my vote on him had nothing to do with thinking I was lynching scum. I did that shit to hopefully prevent him from repeating what happened here. Not saying I'm the be-all, know-all, because I know I have learning to do as well.

Anyway, as I was.

HERE'S WHY HE REVOTED ESPY:

Stop right there. I revoted Esp to get the fuck on with things. Simple as. Selfishly, yes, I feel better being here than letting them stick around to still talk about how confused and unsure they are and how their reads are all screwy. I told PO straight up that I didn't find her useful - more than once I'm sure. Since players Day 5 refused to focus on anything but Esp & myself, the greater good [IMO obv] was to lynch them and show those

still

thinking Esp & PO were scum that they were wrong. Next order of business/today is for them to think with a clear head, post-Esp's town flip. They were wrong about Esp & PO, and they're wrong if they still find you town, GI. Now that lingering suspicions of Esp are over with, and now that they know there's still four werewolves, they have to get their shit together to find the RIGHT pairs this time.

@hiraki:

i can get on board with voting them. Grey was strange when it came to esp's wagon earlier this phase. Coulda been stalling esp's lynch intentionally.

If ur asking me if i think ur scum: not at the moment. Hence why i said leave you, dram and trag alive to win the game. I feel like eliminating everyone else would kill the wolves 4 sure. Im basing this on liveliness of slots, since replacements that share their lover's opinions rather than

others'

makes me less suspect 4-person QTs.

SO HOW MANY MORE BANDWAGON SWITCHES WILL COME OUT OF THAT LOVER HYDRA DUE TO 'SHIT POSTED IN THE QT?'

BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM, THEY FIND THE ENTIRE TOWN SCUM. AND THEY WILL VOTE FLOP AS SOON AS IT LOOKS LIKE A TOWN BANDWAGON WILL DERAIL.

@the bolded parts in my quote..... back up. Waaaay the fuck back.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2891330

For those that don't feel like clicking links, lemme quote what led to the bolded text of mine above.

so a lot of u folks like ash and marble?

GreyICE/Antihero.

Do you think that me and Emp are scum?

@hiraki:

i can get on board with voting them. GREY

was strange when it came to esp's wagon earlier this phase. Coulda been stalling esp's lynch intentionally. If ur asking me if i think ur scum: not at the moment. Hence why i said leave you, dram and trag alive to win the game. I feel like eliminating everyone else would kill the wolves 4 sure. Im basing this on liveliness of slots, since replacements that share their lover's opinions rather than

others'

makes me less suspect 4-person QTs.

How many more times are you going to purposely use my words out of context, GI? What are you doing: blindly iso'ing me and not checking to see WTF I'm commenting on?

Anothing thing: You keep saying I've done nothing all game. PO herself didn't agree with that. Yes, I'm using a dead and proven town player to support my own evidence, because townies don't lie. Hardyharhar... If you want to use a strong [wrong] word such as 'nothing' then, please provide your definition of nothing. Xalxe has

done

nothing. I'd say PrayPiotr has

done

nothing, but he might have actually put up a catch-up post at least once and I don't care to remember.

Show me why my actions, suspicions, speculations, etc. are defined as nothing... OH, because your vezok-scum meta is so holy moly that it shits on the fact I haven't led a successful lynch on scum yet? Before day 4 when mafia lived, there was no such thing as a fully pro-town player. I'll even go against LF on this subject since he's a believer that town reads could be found so early in a multiball game. Anti-mafia? Sure, most of us were/are. Werewolves had every right to scumhunt. This game has no cops, no trackers, no watchers, no other forms of fucking investigation. Scum can manipulate this shit when no one has a guarantee of non-lover's alignments.

Days 1 through 4, Grey, you had no problem being on every lynch. Day 5, when you know there's no more mafia, only townies, you attempt to build a counterwagon on me after Esp was pushing close to lynch-threshold. What purpose did that serve? Esp was all the way at the bottom of your scumlist, regardless of your claimed townread on PO that came later. You found Esp "scummy as fuck," but no, you didn't get on board with voting them. Kise had to go first for some reason... thing was, with Esp at 5-7 votes already, you already knew Esp was getting lynched and Kise would get his turn come Day 6.

Yeah... look good for the people when you don't mislynch Esp, then have them finally listen to you about lynching Kise.

Ash is next. Shut up please.

[Kise]

ON WHAT FUCKING GROUNDS, THAT I COULDA BUSSED KCD??

WHO THE FUCK CARES, THEY GIVE NO WOLF POINTS AT ALL SINCE THEY WERE MAFIA.

Hehe.

How bout you Ash? Because PO was no longer sugar coating my comments and you had a change of <3?

Mmk, so why are you on Ice when you think I'M MORE SCUM.

WHO THE FUCK CARES, YOU'RE BOTH SCUM. MORE SCUM? THE FUCK'S THAT? YOU'RE BOTH EQUAL SCUM UNLESS THE MOD GAVE YOU A POWER ROLE FOR SOME REASON.

AND HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION:

How bout you Ash? Because PO was no longer sugar coating my comments and you had a change of <3?

dram & Reck are as near confirmed town as you can get. Nero would have been active in a 4-person QT. Now if LF can share my world, we'll be forming an alliance soon enough.

Why are you quoting this?

Esp & PO as town = Ash & Grey & their peoples as wolves. Your reason (if I can define it) for switching opinions of Esp & myself don't make sense to me, Ash.

You attacked them like shit because they were scum then

did a COMPLETE 180 onto my team

, and now you aren't even voting us when you wanted us lynched the most and Grey has votes on him. I mean look at this.

Oh cool you played the Tony Hawks too?

Let's talk about 180's for a moment. YOUR 180's.

[START SEGUE]

I reread Espy & PO.

Espy's "I don't want to derail my own wagon" referred to KCD. That statement makes a lot of sense to me from the perspective of scum not wanting to be the one derailing the lynch on his buddy.

Particularly since 3 minutes later he points out the day is super young.
Scum thought process: I don't want to lynch KCD and I am ready to go attack someone else, but his scumflip will make me look bad if I start my counterwagon now. But it's only 5 days in, so this wagon won't last, and I can wait for it to self-dissolve naturally instead.
Town thought process: I can't see one. Not posting suspicion because it might compete with your other suspicion doesn't make sense.

Their subsequent record on kcd isn't great either. PO votes the pair briefly D2 while saying he thinks BS has been very townish and he may be simply getting confused by KCD's randomness. Then he joins Espy on the Mariyta counterwagon. Espy's facepalm barrage near the end of KCD's life may have been "I can't believe these townies are lynching my buddy without even noticing they're a hammer"

And of course the PO/Esp pair wouldn't surprise me as wolves either, which is a nice bonus. And there was PO's leadoff wifommish "I forgot setup information I discussed in the signup thread."

VOTE: Espeonage
They were also a recent scumread of Ash in our QT; I like that as well.

Just want to cut in here to point out LM searching for the remaining mafia.^

No complaining? Alright. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat, every time wolfy goes over 3 days (I was hoping it was 2 and thought it was 2 before I checked the rules) we'll prod request (I know I will). I hope you all will join me in this task.

With that said... VOTE: Espeonage

His play and hunting has the luxury of being there without being there to me. Yeah he thinks Tragedy and Mariyta are scum, but that's about all I can really make out of it besides some words on Kise (I don't think he's shared why Kise is scum either).

Personally I also think PO is stretching Kise's points to anti-sugar coat this wagon as much as possible (instead of making good reasons why she shouldn't be lynched, she's more suggesting why she shouldn't be lynched quickly.)

So, I'm happy to start pressing. Runner up wagon is Mariyta/Tragedy for their berserk buttons over small things and the like. Mariyta may do this often but there is something fishy feeling there.

Also...

Ashblade is basically a blessing to his loverteam, he feels incredibly protown too

You're too kind Mr. Owl.

@bolded: Don't forget this.
1 hour later, LM votes.

VOTE: Espeonage
I've been suspicious of them for a long time &

my lover has reached the same conclusion

. Most other loverpairs are townreads. I think the Kise pair may be bussing them due to their unsalvageable situation, but need to look more carefully into previous days' behavior, which I am too tired to do right now.

So already, I KNOW you two are talking about what's going on. Now, Tragedy started to suspect you, Ash, and I wanted clarification on what she saw. I mentioned that your posts were fluffed to the max, and the next posts you make show signs that you no likey Kisey any more. Now THAT is why I said for you not to get "OMGUSy on just yet" if you remember that line. Let's keep in mind that you and LM are discussing the game in the QT, and likely you two were aware that I may be suspecting you soon. Know what you did?

UNVOTE; VOTE KISE

I reread Kise, then read PO's 1487. 1487 is good. Kise hasn't given out townreads and has stayed in a small space. Kise's posting doesn't look like that of a player who is trying to figure the game out or truly cares who gets lynched. The exception to that is the Reck episode, and I doubt Kisescum is any less likely than Kisetown to go after someone he thinks he has caught lying.

Hey, my partner had the same thought I was when I was thinking about the game this morning.

"Yooooo"



"Marblez thinks just like me"



"I woke up and thought the same"



"Just thought you guys should know that I thought this on my own, without checking the QT first"



"Because I really want to make sure you guys think I thought what Llam's thinking when he's thinking it"



"And I just HAD to mention that I thought it up this morning so you would knows"

[/end reenactment]

Getting townreads from me is irrelevent when I've explicably called po-esp, grey, and ashblade as the likely scum in that order. So then... guess whos left to fill those town spots? I am very comfortable with leaving the game in a reck-nero-dram-?-trag-? finale if it ever came to that. Just fucking lynch esp and if theyre town then lynch me without a fight. Seriously. Not once did i imply i wanted to survive to endgame, as i know im not everyone's top town read. I already felt like i would be a quick-lynchee for my OWN proposal. If you thought i care about living til endgame, i dont. What i dont want is for PO to claw her pair out of a lynch when its been obvious to me at least that theyre not worth keeping around. "Walking" contradictions. PO's old case was shut down, but shes found new things to call me scummy for? lololol. She cant decide whether i have a chance of being town or obvscum? lolololol.

You didn't even put us on the table until I said I was uncomfortable with you. Seriously though this is almost obvious that one of your groups are scum, and your reactions are making it look like it's you.

But really, Kise's posts are hell away from townie

and I don't know why anyone can read it as such. I've been mulling this over all day and all he's doing is putting people as scum as EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH HIM.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kise

1) I've already been over and shut down your angle of

"KISE IS OMGUSING"

so I feel no need to touch on this. It's just bolded there to serve as a reminder of when I first caught you lying, and why I tried to convince Esp & PO to reconsider the situation.
2) My posts are "hell away from townie," but weren't worth mentioning until I call you out on your first few irrelevant comments?

Should've voted Ashblade. Hard head.

This is your post before the Esp lynch.

Yes I'm serious dram.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2818146

Look at the exchanges between Grey and myself. Read his reason for suspecting me. He was always concerned about finding KCD's partner - Antihero the same. After we lynched vezok... what were your reasons then, Grey?

VOTE: GREYICE

RAWR, RAWR, RAWR!

This is your vote after.

The difference? You're attacking Grey now that he has votes on him.

NOW that he has votes on him??? I voted Grey before ANYONE/NERO did. WAh WAT?!

Everyone who thinks GI is town: WHAT MAKES HIM TOWN?

He's acting exactly as Grey town, he is pushing, he is attacking people I would attack (and I'm town).

HE. IS. TOWN.

1) ...... ... you're scum to me; your opinion is virtually invalid. Appreciated, of course, because you answered. But [obv] I cannot trust you. Ergo, I'm not taking your word about Grey pushing as a townie and attacking those that you would, since you call yourself townie as well. Wolf in sheeps clothing.
2) I noticed you HAD to bring up that you're town in the above quote. You want people to believe you're town, and you & GI attacking the same people = towntell. I don't want to go in a cycle, but you cannot use yourself as a proxy source of GI's town energy when the person who's question you're answering (hi) also calls you scum.

Lastly, for my thing on you, your votes are shit. You're unvotes are shit.

MY shit IS shit??? Considering you and LM's 180's.... Or (if I can be cute for a second) are you saying my votes are being placed on shit?

Sir... you are not gaining credibility by referencing my votes on you are shit.

I am attacking you

. I'm not being shitty. I'm performing an enema.
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8glaM4ruM

[Kise]

So who wants to play Xbox?

[Kise]

Why the fuck did nobody (INCLUDING EMPTYGER) comment on my case on EmpTyger? Fucking seriously.

You never comment on mine.

[Kise]

Yeah im sticking with my ash/llamarble pair lynch. I see them as the partner to dram/fate or

ice/anti

(even can work with emp/hikari).

WHA




THFUC




YOU DOING


YOUVE PLAYED THIS GAME FOR 3 YEARS RIGHT??
RIGHT???
SENS SENT IN FOR COMIC RELIEF??

Grey, if you flip town, I will go after Kise before endgame.

My EmpTyger lynch takes priority.

Ugh, why are

we

lynching them again?

STAY FOCUSED

[Kise]

Kise played exactly optimally for scum this game. Don't scumhunt in the early game, because you need town mislynches to whittle down the pool. Become proactive and pro-town late game.

Unfortunately for him, he didn't anticipate the other scumteam being doink mcdoink and the failboat squad.

You have to be making this up as you go along. I actually would have had a perfect scum-lynching record had Esp cut the shit. You don't consider my accusations and attacks of Reck, Purp, Esp and Emp day 1 as scumhunting. What the hell was I doing then?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2772277

Saying I've done NOTHING is severely inappropriate.

Lazy as fuck?

That's been him until day 5:

I did a back and forth with Esp, PO, Reck and Emp day 1. I had something with Emp & LM the next day, on top of exchanges with werewolf55. Day 3, you got somebody mislynched.. don't remember what I was doing. Prob tunneling on Esp or trying to lynch Emp. You said I might have bussed KCD, then we went at it until I corrected you on those quotes. Day 4, PO kept flirting with me and couldn't make up her mind how she felt about me, but that was the highlight. I remember trolling with smilies until the mod returned, and I hammered vez. You already know about day 5. In fact, I was VERY active before even having ONE vote on me from you or PO; forgot who. All I know is I was hungry for that Esp-lynch and even if I wasn't active, the wagon built up.

Fate, you promise to apologize to me and antihero personally when I flip town, and I mean a serious fucking apology

The fuc... shouldn't you apologe to umbrage, q21, and silva? Shouldn't WE ALL apologize for the mislynches? You're still whining. At least when I say I don't mind being lynched, I don't turn into a diva. The sympathy game is not needed (AtE). Where ya skills at, dawg?

PEDIT2: NO FUCK THIS FUCK YOU FATE FUCK OFF WE ARE LYNCHING KISE TODAY YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT

Was this when you previewed and saw Fate asking how many lynches to lylo? Doesn't make sense to respond with this.

2) Serial tunneling. Seriously. Reck. PO. Now me. Funny thing is what happened with PO. Right at L-2, he hops off her wagon. And then buddies her.

She flirted with me the whole game as I voted Esp. But anyway, YES I unvoted when Ash and marble pulled that stunt. I mentioned how strange Ash was and PO said this:

KISE.

Do you SEE how both Ashblade and llama switched votes? Do you SEE the counterwagons? Do you SEE Reck's posts that are ALREADY analyzing wagon behavior?! HELL. DO YOU SEE YOUR OWN POST NOTING ASHBLADE AND LLAMA'S VOTES AND TALKING ABOUT BUSSING???

THIS THIS THIS IS WHY I'M FIGHTING SO DAMN HARD AGAINST MY LYNCH TODAY

. And why I've been so ticked off at town who DON'T fight. And why I hope any other town up for mislynch in the next day or two will FIGHT THEIR ASSES OFF.

There's like an exponential/multiplicative/whatever increase in the information that can now be gleaned from Espy/my death, and/or Mari's death, and/or your death, and/or PRACTICALLY ANY OTHER PLAYER'S DEATH. Frikkin' more than whatever could have been gleaned if I'd just given up and rolled over and let the votes pile up to a single-wagon very-fast-hammer today.

So seriously. Cut the self-preservation crap.

Duh

I think people would be better off taking two shots that have a chance to hit actual mafia, before they have to resort to mislynching us. Do I think they will? Uh...not really. But, hell. Even IF you're right that I've been utterly useless this thread due to too-tentative reads or whatnot, and that people should get us out of the way if only for that reason (at least I think that's what you just said...), I am NOT going to be useless in my death.

So there's MY martyrdom spiel for this thread.

I got the fuck off the Esp wagon because I couldn't see marble & Ash bussing her if they were partners. Why not? Because they provided reasons that clashed when it came to why they voted Esp and why they voted me. Looking at me as town and Esp-PO are scum, then completely switching it around to where I'm the scum and Esp-PO are the townies WITHOUT even acknowledging that they had a scumread on Esp & PO to begin with. Kise-wagon popped up and they just rolled with it to build steam. Let's theorize: I flip town day 5, then they're back on Esp & PO day 6.

"There's no way Kise is scum with Esp and PO after all their words for each other."

^I saw that so many times. I already knew what was coming day 6. Esp got selfish, so fuck it, I lynched him. Did you not see how Esp came in at last minute saying that Ash was scum? I flat out wasn't going for that. He fucked up his chance when he didn't switch over to Ash the first time. Logical thing to do when WE BOTH say Ash is scum is to lynch him instead of lynch each other. Reason being, we don't

gamble

by mislynching one of us when 2 to 1 said we should have went for Ash. Esp probably isn't reading the game past this point, so I'll drop this. I don't know if he was trying to teach me a lesson for my tunneling, but... negro, please.

3) He's about to start buddying fate pretty hardcore. Watch Llama's suspicions evaporate for today.

Only person I'm trying to buddy with is Fluff and he's making this pretty hard. I already know Reck will terminate whoever hates on dram, and Fluff labeling dram's partners as lurky scum actually makes them uninterested town. I'd be having fun in a 4-person QT in a nightless game. The reality of it is that my QT is/was a ghost town. In a way, this is why I say Trag and dram's pairs are town because while my past partners HAVE posted, the whole "catching up" thing put them off and they didn't have time for it. I can see that with their partners needing replacements as well. The three of us have been through at least 2 partners. I didn't (and COULDN'T) give my lovers a biased catch up post so my partners had to work their way into understanding what was going on with this game.

PEDIT: Fate. Seriously. Go buy a plain ticket to Mexico to star in a show where you suck a bag of donkey dicks. This is retardation at its finest.

Can we just get a modkill so we can lynch Ash/marble next?

Wait, did Kise make a "I'm going into a 1v1 with this person, GUARANTEED they flip scum or you lynch me."

Yeah that's town Kise ALL RIGHT.

That game will never be forgotten, will it? Or did I do that twice with you..?

So Reck and Fate's dumb theory is that I'm scum with EMP and Hiraki, who are pushing for Dram's lynch, while I say they're town.

While Kise says Dram and Reck are most likely town, and Llama says Dram is scum.

This is fucking horrible.

No. This is how townies play - independently. Scum are the ones working together. Fluff is doing his part to scumhunt and I HEAVILY disagree with half of his list, but he's putting out his honest opinions. He probably knows the dram-voting won't go well with Reck but he isn't giving a damn about whether that gets us lynched. He's not sold on my reasons for thinking dram is town either, but oh well.

So I did some reasearch.

Its dram/xalxe and ash/evil llama

You know with all of their posts, combined, for the entire game, they never address eachother. We have one line in one post where dram calls ash prob-town. We also have one line from ash that is disagreing with drams read on Kise. That is it, for the ENTIRE game.

Its these two pairs. End of story. They work perfectly on interactions, on reads, on votecounts.

He "did some research." Really? Because these are two pairs that NEVER FUCKING POST. So they NEVER FUCKING ADDRESS EACH OTHER WHEN THEY POST.

So based on what you say about me doing nothing, why does the "nothingness" of others not apply to them? Namely marble.
*_*

NICE FUCKING RESEARCH.

OH WAIT, IT'S THE PLAN THEY WORKED OUT IN THE QT.

Fluff would be smarter as scum to know that we'd need to get on Reck's good side - o hay, that sounds like what you just got called out on. In fact, Fluff would have me and TWO OTHER scum yelling at him to drop the attacks on dram.

FUCK YOUR DUMB META YOU CUNT

I never push for a modkill but come on. And none of that neutral survivor shit... well, make Grey the neutral survivor. Anti should be flipped.

[Kise]

You're the lycanthrope.

[Kise]

marble pops in to defend his buddy, once again neglecting to read.

[Kise]

I've posted two walls, in response to YOUR walls. You have not yet given them the time of day. I actually do have material for you to respond back to, it's not impenetrable blocks.

[Kise]

Oh I want to fucking self vote here just to see the look on your face when I flip town.

No face on intnet dood[/stupid]

[Kise]

Kise there's a reason people don't give your walls the time of day. Maybe because the time would be better spent... I don't know.... watching a banana slowly turn black?

Feel free to do more than ride GI's coattails.

[Kise]

If Esp is scum, Kise is not.

I'll agree to this.

But you knew this wasn't the case, didn't you.... DIDINT YOU?

[Kise]

Mod: Nero Cain would like me to mention he has limited access but looks to return in a few days.

[Kise]

Nobody has any questions for me. (-_-)
Stop giving me a reason to lurk.... speaking of which, I see Ash hasn't recovered from that ass whooping just yet. Update on his condition, marble?

[Kise]

Since when did PZ troll?

@GI: After researching, I've seen you with your back to the wall as town. Much, much different than what I see here. Not that you're asking me, but I'd put us both on the town-scum list. No, this is not a taunt because "teehee im wolf you town."

I see what the scum are doing.. Not addressing me directly so I don't get up in that ass again.

Kise:
I don’t see an answer in all of that to the question of, “What changed between your “should’ve voted Ashblade” and your actual voting of GreyIce?”

My attempt to get support for the Ashblade bombed day 5. I've laid the smack down and that's all I really have to offer as far as case-building. With the majority/those I view as town due to PoE + replacement meta do not see Ash & marble as scum, I am moving on to GI, who I thought I even had support with my lover. Though we don't post much in the QT, I have pestered LF to argue or agree with my scumreads, and argue or agree with my reasons to find Trag, dram and slightly Reck as town. After seeing Reck (I believe it was Reck) give a town read on Ash, I decided that I may as well use other's scumread of GI to make progress.

Oooo, bring on the caps and hope they fall for the act. You're raging over a vote from Nero. Bad nerves, I know. No matter how hard you whine, it's ingenuine caps-rage. It's just 2 votes on you and you already had to preemptively bring out the caps. FOH.

How is this different (/how do you see this as any different) from how Reckoner has acted? Either recently, after I pointed out how his reasons regarding dramonic had evaporated, or earlier, eg with Haylen/silavor?

And if you also think dramonic must be innocent for meta-reasons… well, what did he do that a guilty-dramonic wouldn’t do?

Square Enix III: Reck gave everyone hell after his dramtown read was snubbed. He threatened to post mod communication, his role PM, etc. just to be modkilled and fuck over the town that were ignoring him. When Reck calls dram town and flips shit like chefs flipping pancakes at IHOP, it means he's pissed you're not paying attention. What I see here is people calling Reck town, but not accepting his townread of dram, which understandably has irritated him.

Your second question: It's not so much about what a guilty dram would do, although he'll show signs when he's working under a team. The meta reasons are more so for all the replacements he's been through. I said not long ago that multiple replacements makes dram's partners look like bored/clueless townies who didn't feel like reading dozens of pages to find scum.

[Kise]

Also:

GreyIce’s play makes no sense today as werewolf- unless he’s werewolf with Reckoner (or you). He’s putting his neck on the line arguing for a Reckoner/dramonic/GreyIce endgame.

I saw a similar concern posted by Reck I believe it was. Thing is, mislynches can be used as an excuse for the werewolves (anyone, really) to "reevaluate" their reads. Having a revelation is the perfect setup to flip a 180 on a townie and condemn them for manipulating things.

[Kise]

Thats kinda cool... the scumlist from ash is almost the exact inverse of who has been attacking him.

Sheeyit

... I almost caught a town-tingle from that. He's being reasonable with his read of PZ & Trag, but my replacement-meta tells me I should view them as town... I am curious to find this out:

TRAGEDY AND ZITO:

What are the last 5 or so posts in your QT about?

[Kise]

Also:

GreyIce’s play makes no sense today as werewolf- unless he’s werewolf with Reckoner (or you). He’s putting his neck on the line arguing for a Reckoner/dramonic/GreyIce endgame.

I saw a similar concern posted by Reck I believe it was. Thing is, mislynches can be used as an excuse for the werewolves (anyone, really) to "reevaluate" their reads. Having a revelation is the perfect setup to flip a 180 on a townie and condemn them for manipulating things.

Haha, nice.

PO&Espy reevaluation much?

Yeah, I did that BEFORE they were mislynched. I even went on record to say they were town to me after Ash's antics, which has still been ignored.... RECK, who are Emp's partners?

[Kise]

Lol obvjoke.
So.... is there anyone not lazy like me that can put together a list of everyone's top 3 townreads in order of towniest->least towniest? I has idea.

[Kise]

Me, you incredibly useless lurker. I need some more townies to help lynch Kise, and you and Dramonic are the only lurk-town left I had to maybe change their vote.

Desperado, señor? You should go back to the plan of being lynched and letting Reck & them decide my fate

if

you are revealed town. That at least made it seem like you could be sincere. But, that idea won't work for you if there's a town flip missing. How can anyone that was wrong about q21 and Umbrage still act this intense? You really screwed the pooch by NOT showing doubt and instead resorting to using words of certainty to further damn me.

Kise case is coming together, but this game is as long as sin, and much more boring.

I won't bother with a case. Just check the last few pages of my iso.

But sure, repeat that old song and dance and hope it brainwashes the crowd this time around.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2900094

^That was dope, though.

At this point we're pretty much waiting for Zito/Tragedy to decide who dies, which is unfortunate since they're probably scum with Kise.

Beating everyone in the head with "Kise is scum" will not magically make it so. Cheap propaganda is not equal to reasoning. I'm surprised no one has pointed out the difference with how ubertown you're playing in whatchamacallit next door..... <--- <---

Meh, both of them having to do an AWESOME 180 onto my wagon will be fucking incredible when I flip town.

Fear tactics... typical. This is what I was getting to - You guys feel the need to bombard everyone with "me town, him scum."

And I'll get that fucking case on Kise one of these days when I stop wanting to cry every time I read this thread.

You make it seem like the town NEEDS you to win when it's still 5 to 2 scum. The way I read you is that you're more concerned about surviving for the benefit of a smaller scumteam as opposed to someone that wants to stay and scumhunt, hence why you're trying to make sure I'm not alive to pester you any longer. I'm confident townies can win either way, i.e. the speedlynch proposal. If we let the top 3 townreads live, I'm pretty sure that should be a winnable game. Cheap, but most likely effective.

If we were both town, Grey, the scum would have no problem lining up our lynches back to back. The fact that (sans Nero) those voting you (and EmpTy, who is voting for me) have at least been vocal/taken a stand on the future makes me comfortable with them being town.[/buddying] Not leaving the back door open is confirming to me. Point being that I'm confident to continue my view of you as scum since the others wouldn't have time to pull a 180 AFTER taking a stand. I currently have no reason to see them as scum.

I could also see your scumbuddies being as minimal as they can, observing what everyone else thinks before they fuck up and cement their thoughts.

I'm not inclined to vote either one of them.

GI is going to post walls 'til the sweat drops down his balls. I predict there will be a lot of nitpicking, which is easy considering he's planning to go over ALL of my posts. I'd hammer him for sanity's sake. Plus, I'll make sure random.org gives you a good role for SE6.

It's Mariyta. She has an interesting reaction to her scumteam doing anything remotely unconventional - she votes for them, demands explanation, and flails about for other lynches.

I learned this DURING the course of this game while playing on her scumteam in a different game (it started later than this and ended a little while ago).

Lol.. One game and you've developed dependable meta on someone.

:shrug:

[Kise]

"CLASSI FOR MARITYATRFJKAWOIEJFIOHJ METABULLSHIT

ONE GAME

BULLSHIT"

[Kise]

Forced caps rage is loltastic.

NOW IDEAL SCUMPLAY...

This kinda shit again..

HE HASN'T DONE JACK SHIT UNTIL THE FUCKING MAFIA DIED.

HE HASN'T BOTHERED TO BE PRO-TOWN UNTIL HE REALIZED HE MIGHT BE LYNCHED.

HE DIDN'T BOTHER TO SCUMHUNT UNTIL HE MIGHT BE LYNCHED.

HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING... UNTIL HE MIGHT BE LYNCHED.

repeat that old song and dance....
brainwashes...
Beating everyone in the head...
feel the need to bombard everyone....

MARIYTA IS RUNNING ON FUMES, SHE REPLACED OUT BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS ANYMORE.

She hasn't posted on the site since last month.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... 2&sr=posts

So this is really why I'm in a scumteam with Mari?

[Kise]

Yes, he always vote hops from his #1 scum pick to a #2 to the largest wagon while buddying his #1 scum pick. Of course! It's just his posting style. Well why didn't I see that immediately?

Yeah that wasnt buddying... that was a mini-shot at Kise who in every post in the QT is him saying my reads are wrong and I need to vote whoever he is voting.

Just the dram/Xalxe thing. Didn't mean to be a dick, but I was strongly against your scumread of those two.

Kise:

My attempt to get support for the Ashblade bombed day 5. I've laid the smack down and that's all I really have to offer as far as case-building. With the majority/those I view as town due to PoE + replacement meta do not see Ash & marble as scum, I am moving on to GI, who I thought I even had support with my lover. Though we don't post much in the QT, I have pestered LF to argue or agree with my scumreads, and argue or agree with my reasons to find Trag, dram and slightly Reck as town. After seeing Reck (I believe it was Reck) give a town read on Ash, I decided that I may as well use other's scumread of GI to make progress.

This doesn't match what actually happened. I don't see any townread on Ashblade from Reckoner-

Sir...

Kise & Llama both need to get off Ashblade, it's a waste of a vote.

^ I took this as Reck was not going to support an Ashblade wagon, but he did however say he'd go for Esp or Grey if I was lynched. That was enough to let me know he might support a GI wagon.

For that matter, I don't see much of a case from you against Ashblade D5- you overwhelmingly pushed against Espeonage. You had a minor attack against Ashblade, but it was just as directed against GreyIce.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2868511
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2868588
But here's a good one: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2871092
Ooh, I'm feisty in this one: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2871960
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2872220
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2872276
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2872284
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2872358
Small bits here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2872546
Exposes Ash's fact-twisting decently: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2872595
PO agrees with me but won't unvote : http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2874323
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2884424

There ya go, Emp. All from Day 5.

And then why this post:

Yeah im sticking with my ash/llamarble pair lynch.  I see them as the partner to dram/fate or

ice/anti

(even can work with emp/hikari).

WHA




THFUC




YOU DOING


YOUVE PLAYED THIS GAME FOR 3 YEARS RIGHT??
   RIGHT???
SENS SENT IN FOR COMIC RELIEF??

You rail against LlamaF for disagreeing about Ashblade? According to you, that's what you were thinking.

No, I "railed" LF for saying that Anti & GI were likely partners of Ash & LM, yet he one-man wagons Ash & LM instead of joining the popular kids on the GI wagon.

[Kise]

It's the profiling thing that doesn't work. "Optimal scum play," "Ideal scum behavior" i's too person specific. Like, I'm the ONE person you can use such a thing against, yet it's optimal play for all scum.

>.>

Tragedy knows I'm not her buddy so she should vote whoever. Even if she didn't vote you, I'm sure you'd still find some way to call her my buddy - Damned if she does + damned if she don't.

[Kise]

I can't wait to get rid of that shit eating grin on Shatner's face next.

[Kise]

Okay, Emp. I guess Reck or no one else gave a town read, but they also showed no interest in voting Ash. I was alone with LF on the Ash wagon D5.

[Kise]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2890930
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2891538

There's no Ash-wagon support there, Emp.

THIS IS A RAGECORE THREAD NOW. I LIKE IT. I'LL BE BACK TO RAGE HARDER.

KAY NOW LETS PAPA ZITO GREYICE OFF A CLIFF

[Kise]

Don't forget you "grudgingly" agreed to lynch Esp too, GI. You had them down as town too.

[Kise]

Your case is BS and you know it. Your buddy marble has always lurked like ninja fucking gaiden and you didn't have the decency to double check and make sure he wasn't doing the same shit you say I'm doing as optimal prime scumplay w/etf. And you give marble's performance a townread... that's funny.

[Kise]

[Kise]

The fear tactics may actually work ...

[Kise]

HERE'S THE LIST OF TEAMS WITH A PARTNER WHO HAVE FLAKED:

XRECKONER
DRAMONIC
TRAGEDY
KISE
LLAMARBLE
EMPTYGER

I MAY BE JOINING THIS LIST

I remember.. Darla flaked on you guys, right?
I was really expecting a defense/explanation for this BTW:

Your case is BS and you know it. Your buddy marble has always lurked like ninja fucking gaiden and you didn't have the decency to double check and make sure he wasn't doing the same shit you say I'm doing as optimal prime scumplay w/etf. And you give marble's performance a townread... that's funny.

[Kise]

2 more, Fate.

[Kise]

Fate told me to never claim scum early. I have no idea what you're referring to, but no, dram. No..... but I'm gonna have to explain it anyway, so which line?

[Kise]

Was I... wrong about PZ and Trag?

I'm sorry Reck, should have trusted you.

NOOOOOO REECK DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

[Kise]

NOOOOOO REECK DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

REECK DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAG

DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAG

DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAG

DONT GO TO EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP-WAGON

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMP

EMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMPEMP

REEEEEE MIXXXX

DONT GO TO THE EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON EMP-WAGON

[Kise]

Don't be scured, Tragedy.

EWBOP:

Vote: GreyICE

FFS.

GOODBYE OLD FRIEnD/BUDDY.

Was I... wrong about PZ and Trag?

I'm sorry Reck, should have trusted you.

Translation: "I see the light, Reck. I can agree with voting Emp and Hiraki now because it's not PZ & Trag as the Kise-buds no mo, so let's go with your Emp wagon idea."

This game continues to piss me off since its obvious that the lynch is ash/llama. What happened to about five pages ago where everyone was like "thats a great point on ash"

Grey became the more obv choice.

[Kise]

You should also go more in-depth about how that translates to Hiraki being my buddy when he was early on my wagon, and Emp is still on my wagon. Them combined with LF was enough to put you away, but it's not happening. LF thinks this is too risky apparently..

[Kise]

v/la

[Kise]

Who gives a fuck about ash right now? Grey is gonna do a dance due to having me eliminated first regardless of his imminent lynching. You took too long to jump ship, fluff..... Leave reck, dram and trag alive. Speed lynch the fuck out the rest until all wolves have been strung up. Fuck talking - we've been talking for months during this phase. Just lynch.

[Kise]

MOD: Don't invite me to the dead qt. I'll let esp and po shout at me later

...... >.>

[Kise]

No complaints. Well deserved victory. I was fixated on my own townread of dram to change my mind about his pair. The only times I had a feeling were werewolf55's nag about it taking months when, for the town, it would only take 2 lynches to defeat scum, and Reck making it a point at the beginning of the game to show he was "clueless" about no night phases. But by day 3, I was gunning for others. I told LF it may be reck & grey, but never had dramscum on the mind. HE did however. :-{........ sup PO, Espy?

[Kise]

But don't retire, Reck.

[Kise]

No complaints. Well deserved victory. I was fixated on my own townread of dram to change my mind about his pair. The only times I had a feeling were werewolf55's nag about it taking months when, for the town, it would only take 2 lynches to defeat scum, and Reck making it a point at the beginning of the game to show he was "clueless" about no night phases. But by day 3, I was gunning for others. I told LF it may be reck & grey, but never had dramscum on the mind. HE did however. :-{........ sup PO, Espy?

Actually, I didn't "pretend" to be clueless about the night phases. I just hadn't read my role PM thoroughly enough yet. And that whole AIM convo thing? I never lied - that seriously never happened.

I know. >.>