Mini 1160 - Cupcake Mafia! Cupcakes Baked to Perfection!

[UshiromiyaAnge]

@Cupcake Panda: The main problem is that the man of the hour, Fate, has to reread. Most of the activity is centering on him. I mean, I could exhort everyone to vote tclawren again if you like. But I think people are gettin' the idea, you know?

~UK

[Kise]

No more beating around the bush.

If Grey dies

My posts will be that much easier to read!

Role related reason to vote GI, yes or no? It's the only reason I tagged along.

[GhostWriter]

No. I'm pretty sure this issue has been explained, argued, counter-argued, dismissed, resurrected, shot with a cantaloupe, and buried in more arguments.

[Fate]

Just spent 10 hours moving then took a final exam.

Tomorrow Im gonna be sortin all my shit out all day (I can barely move around with all my crap in this place, and my bed isnt even set-up -_-)

SO DONT FUCKIN EXPECT NOTHIN SOON.

I

<3

KA

TS

U

S

KI

[vollkan]

This line is fucking terrible Fate.

"I am confirmed town, let me live to massclaim. Then you can lynch me."

This is like a dare that should you end up alive at Massclaim (which normally happens around MyLo/LyLo) that you don't think anyone would question it. By that point, enough roles could be out for you to make up whatever role you want for you claim to make it look provable, or you can just give town the finger and say, "You can't risk lynching me now!"

I also have seen at least two posts now where your rainbow sprinkles have been messed up and heard or seen no repercussion for it.

At the risk of repeating what I said in my last post, Fate's play around his PR and softclaiming is utterly ridiculous (for what it's worth, I think everything he is saying about it is BS), but it is entirely consistent with Fate's playstyle.

Whilst I don't for a second believe his claiming, I find it similarly unlikely that scum-Fate would seriously believe that he could prolong his own existence by making vague claims and demanding to be kept alive until MC. There is simply no realistic scum strategy for what he is doing; and, for all his insanity, Fate isn't an idiot. In short, what he is doing is stupid and I believe it is playing a major role in the current level of apathy, but it isn't "scummy".

I can tell already our playstyles are going to be incompatible. I am of the school that meta only serves to justify what you are already thinking, and is more or less useless. I ignore meta arguments. So, if you want to sway me on an issue, I'd appreciate you making arguments that are only within the scope of this game.

To break down what is happening.

People are arguing:
1) Vollkan is being aloof
2) Aloofness is scummy because it is evasive
3) Therefore, vollkan is scummy

"scummy" means "more likely to come from scum than town"

My response to this is as follows:
1) Vollkan agrees he is being aloof
2) Aloofness is not scummy because vollkan has a tendency to become aloof in circumtances similar to this
3) Therefore, vollkan is not scummy

I don't see how you can say that my history is irrelevant for assessing my actions.

To use an extreme example, suppose it turns out that, site-wide, scum ALWAYS use the word "elephant" in their third post. Suppose, however, that we have a player named X who just so happens to use the word "elephant" in his third post in every single game, regardless of his alignment. Even though, at the general level, using the word "elephant" is a solid scumtell, are you seriously telling me that your response to X would be "Nope, sorry, I don't care about meta"?

[GreyICE]

At the risk of repeating what I said in my last post, Fate's play around his PR and softclaiming is utterly ridiculous (for what it's worth, I think everything he is saying about it is BS), but it is entirely consistent with Fate's playstyle.

Whilst I don't for a second believe his claiming, I find it similarly unlikely that scum-Fate would seriously believe that he could prolong his own existence by making vague claims and demanding to be kept alive until MC. There is simply no realistic scum strategy for what he is doing; and, for all his insanity, Fate isn't an idiot. In short, what he is doing is stupid and I believe it is playing a major role in the current level of apathy, but it isn't "scummy".\

Uh have you read the multiple games where he does EXACTLY THIS and it WORKS?

Imma gonna go beat my head against a wall now.

[UshiromiyaAnge]

I would, vollkan. I'd vote player X for that. (Though to be fair I'd question a meta scumtell like that to begin with, but if we're assuming that it's just completely true and no one could possibly think different, then yeah).

To be honest, every time I mod vote in a game, I fully expect to be voted for it in a justifiable way. Meta is not relevant. That said, you aren't really high on my list of people that need to die. I'd just appreciate more :effort:. Things should have calmed down enough at this point for you to make conclusion.

Hmm...I feel like there should be more to comment on but we've kind of reached a standstill, and I don't have a strong track of who's commented on what at this time. Perhaps I am due a reread sometime in the near future.

~UK

[smargaret]

... vollkan is self-metaing? LOL.

UA, do you want me to answer the questions Fate answered on my behalf? I'm not sure if you'll trust my answers at this point, but if you want them (and you're willing to accept that for some of them, it is going to be "what Fate said" by sheer coincidence) I'm willing to give them.

Fate, I appreciate that you have a townread on me. Don't make it harder for other people to get that same read on me, mmkay?

Steph: Please take a stance on the Grey/Fate argument.

[vollkan]

At the risk of repeating what I said in my last post, Fate's play around his PR and softclaiming is utterly ridiculous (for what it's worth, I think everything he is saying about it is BS), but it is entirely consistent with Fate's playstyle.

Whilst I don't for a second believe his claiming, I find it similarly unlikely that scum-Fate would seriously believe that he could prolong his own existence by making vague claims and demanding to be kept alive until MC. There is simply no realistic scum strategy for what he is doing; and, for all his insanity, Fate isn't an idiot. In short, what he is doing is stupid and I believe it is playing a major role in the current level of apathy, but it isn't "scummy".\

Uh have you read the multiple games where he does EXACTLY THIS and it WORKS?

To be clear, you are saying that there is precedent for Fate-scum softclaiming and being kept alive because of said soft-claim?

I would, vollkan. I'd vote player X for that. (Though to be fair I'd question a meta scumtell like that to begin with, but if we're assuming that it's just completely true and no one could possibly think different, then yeah).

I'm surprised by that. I guess it leads me to another question: would your vote for X be on grounds of scumminess (eg. "I think X is more likely to be scum than town") or policy (eg. "I don't think X should be able to get away with committing a common scumtell"). If the latter, then I guess we hit another more fundamental playstyle difference, given that I think policy lynches are completely unacceptable (I'd even go so far as to argue that they violate the play-to-win rule).

... vollkan is self-metaing? LOL.

I'm actually self-meta-metaing, because the game I linked to is one of my completed town games in which I made precisely the same meta defence that I am making here.

[UshiromiyaAnge]

@vollk: Well, first, I should probably make it clear that this is my personal, UK, opinion, though I think LLD is with me on some of this. Secondly, I should probably make it clear this isn't too relevant to the game, but I'm enjoying this discussion.

I don't like policy lynches. I kind of got on the chesskid one partially because of LLD, and partially because it looked interesting outside of policy reasons. So, if I were in such a situation as the elephant one, I would be voting X on grounds of scumminess. Though, as I said, the elephant scenario has the flaw of being a meta scumtell.

What I look for is scum intent. If there were some scum intent in posting elephant in your third post, I would seize upon it as a good starting point, and continue to assess everyone. I see scum intent in aloofness. If you do it all the time, that does not remove the scum intent. Is it going to mean I think you're scum forever? No. I mean, if I believed that I'd have to vote myself every game for the possible scum intent in voting the mod. Hopefully this explains why I disregard meta better than I have been.

Smarg, please answer the questions. I did indeed request you answer them anyway on the off chance something useful comes of it.

~UK

[GreyICE]

To be clear, you are saying that there is precedent for Fate-scum softclaiming and being kept alive because of said soft-claim?

o_O

Please don't tell me you're serious

[C-Worl]

been told that I get to replace chesskid. i haven't officially recieved my role yet though (kat said she was tired and shed do it in the mornin) ill prolly sheep to either grey or fate though, im just sayin... though if yall wanted to show me some cases you have on various people that'd be cool. oh i should also prolly read the thread. i'll start that tomorrow after i get my role.

[VasudeVa]

Hmm, OK. Better question. If Fate is *not* scum, who is, VV?

You've more or less only expressed a strong opinion on Fate. GI's post was appreciable because it covers a lot of people.

~UK

That's a silly question. Fate is a scum read. Why would I be considering that he's not scum when nothing has happened to change my mind?

Why? Scum would know how those players are aligned. They're in better position to use it to their advantage.

Not really.

If one of them is scum, scum wouldn't want to stick their head in a heated argument to save their buddy. Scum will be too uncomfortable to deal with the repercussions after one has flipped.

In the unlikely event that both of them are Town, they're already ripping each other apart. Why work when they can get a mislynch without attacking someone?

Hence, scum would avoid the argument regardless.

[VasudeVa]

BTW, vollkan the whole self serving "i don't do this as scum!" self-meta didn't work in Popularity Mafia. Why would you do that again here?

[C-Worl]

----
"Wanna do something naughty tonight, Kise?"

Kise puts on his robe and wizard hat, grabs the lube from under the kitchen sink, and proceeds to walk into the bedroom. He turns on his computer because he's all about turn ons. Coming to the desktop, he clicks the windows icon at the bottom left side of the screen and brings up Pictures. From here, he double-clicks the Sample Picture folder where he hides all his nasty videos and creates a slideshow of Lisa Ann's best work.

"That's right you old betty. Show me them oatmeal lumps. Yeah, work that candy bar baby."

After squeezing the lube into his palms, Kise places his wizard hat down in front and moans as he enjoys himself. The red mage casts a level 99 erotica spell that increases his stimulation. He then goes to mafiascum and sees a one eyed succubus molesting a witch and he can't take it any more.

"Yes Ushimanaladygagabunny! Make me a magical mastur#$%*& by filling that blonde ass with love. Love! Love! Ooooooh I can't take this any more"

Kise grabs a pastrami sandwich he left next to the keyboard and puts it into the hat in front of his lap. He fills that motherfucker up and slams it on the desk as the wizard hat explodes into chocolate butterflies.

"Abra cayabba daba doooo"
----

.-.

This is the most epic post in the history of mafia. I will proudly sheep to Kise regardless of my role. (Unless of course I'm a lyncher and Kise is my lynchee)

[Stephoscope]

Steph: Please take a stance on the Grey/Fate argument.

I have already stated that I think Grey is town. I'm not sure about Fate; I don't have the meta on him that others do.

[Parama]

prodvoid

can't read page 18 at school because it's blocked for some reason.

[UshiromiyaAnge]

@VV: Confirmation bias kills people. And not necessarily the right ones.

...So, let me get this straight. C-Worl is admitting at least twice that he lacks a brain? And refuses to do his own scumhunting? And is going to be even more useless than chesskid? I'm not sure whether to applaud his accomplishment or attempt to commit suicide so that my brain isn't adversely affected by such a strong aura of utter stupidity.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong C-Worl! Please, tell me you plan to do more than just sheep people providing no original content of your own.

~UK

[Le Cupcake]

C-Worl replaces Chesskid as of this post.

Welcome.

[VasudeVa]

It's not confirmation bias if I'm right .

And you seem to be overly defending Fate. He hasn't posted at all to even make me change my mind. Why so hung up on defending him?

[GreyICE]

No more beating around the bush.

If Grey dies

My posts will be that much easier to read!

Role related reason to vote GI, yes or no? It's the only reason I tagged along.

Please

Come on Fate.

Claim day cop with a guilty on me

Do it.

DO IT

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT

[UshiromiyaAnge]

@VV: Explain where I'm defending Fate by asking you to produce other reads and think things through. Last I checked, asking someone to look past confirmation bias and examine the game wasn't defending someone.

Why so hung up on strawmen?

~UK

[C-Worl]

Hi, I'm here with all my cupcake goodness. Hey you know that post. Yeah the one. Where I said I would sheep OR you guys could present me with the cases you already had against peoples. Yeah where dem cases be? Well shit might as well say the following.

For meta reasons Fate and GreyICE are town. They did the same thing in the dating game mafia and both were town. Kise and all his gambiting goodness is town. These three need to stop targeting each other.

Vote: Parama

Blatantly lieing to town so you can push a PL on someone who's normally a very good player = you're afraid he'd eventually identify you as scum and you're doing it early so any case he built on you would seem like OMGUS.

UK+LLD is unknown at this point since I don't know their meta and don't know what to think about their play so far. Everyone else is boring and very uninteresting.

[GhostWriter]

Almost as boring and uninteresting as the fact that you just, essentially, did nothing. Thank you for that.

[GreyICE]

For meta reasons Fate and GreyICE are town. They did the same thing in the dating game mafia and both were town. Kise and all his gambiting goodness is town. These three need to stop targeting each other.

Yeah except that was called follow the cop
And neither of us took the game very seriously

This game actually is a game of mafia, and thus I care.