Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[FightingShadow]

VOTE: Vote: JAMFTW

All capital letters make more noise than substance.

[FightingShadow]

Well . . . I clearly failed when using the vote tags.

[FightingShadow]

Unvote

Vote: JAM

This looks like you're jumping onto JAM to give fuel to the wagon running up against your own.

Unvote

If you didn't already have four votes, I'd vote you for this. (This post is completely serious.)

[FightingShadow]

Why is that scummy?

Quietly adding to a wagon that's competing against your own seems motivated almost entirely out of self-preservation, which is a much bigger motivator for scum than town. Sure, town don't want to get lynched, but it seems that a town player would go about it in a different way (questioning the wagon, or actually adding information to the vote).

Even though the game's RVSy right now, that's still an interesting move.

1) How many games of Mafia have you played?
2) Do you prefer to play as scum or town?

1. I have a fair bit of experience. Not enough that I would classify myself as a veteran, but I know my way around a mafia game, and have played several. However, this is an alt account. I won't reveal the main. I have my reasons for playing on an alt, and revealing the main would defeat them.
2. Both . . . it depends on what kind of a mood I'm in. Town requires more brain power, but scum requires a more nuanced social game.

[FightingShadow]

Unexpected V/LA until Sunday (7/10)

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[FightingShadow]

Catchup post, engage!

[FightingShadow]

JAMFTW - what does your username mean?

Anyways, my thoughts on Day 1:

I apologize for being absent. By the time I checked the thread again, the day was over. The three people that jumped out at me for Day 1 were smallpeoples, Internet Stranger, and Rikana. Smallpeoples for the terrible lurking (hypocritical, I know).

Internet Stranger's tunnelling I didn't like at all. He basically tunnelled on Malp. Throughout the day I mainly saw from him posts about Malpascp being scummy, posts criticizing the game's lack of content, or planning for future days based on what Malp's alignment was. He had more criticism about the thread than he did attempts to improve the thread . . . which seems like a spot that lazy scum would try to stay in. Gives the appearance of caring about how the game is dying, but not really helping its condition at all. Not to mention helping to muscle through a town lynch.

As for Rikana, I don't like how he consistently called Malp town, but didn't make much of an effort to try to derail the wagon. As the game neared deadline, that became less scummy, and in his first couple of posts, he did. But for the majority of day one, it seemed like all he did was say "map town, bristep scum" and then got out of the way. No real sense of urgency to try to turn his opinions into flips. And a scum who wanted to get credit for calling Malp town wouldn't neccessarily want to stop Malp from being lynched.

Alright, now for Day 2:

LYNCHED (Internet stranger, JAMFTW, Bristep123, Empking, Sky, Swiftstrike, Smallpeople343)

So like I said, at least one of these people is scum. Obviously, its neither me or Bristep. I nominate JAM

Vote: JAMFTW

Given what I said above about IS, this bothers me. Strongarm the lynch, and then immediately suspect everyone who went along with it? You clearly aren't above suspicion here, and I find your rush to move on to the next suspect suspicious.

Vote: Internet Stranger for illogical and reckless wagon push. I don't approve, JAM was not a lurker, he was inactive.

I also think IS is pointing out the lurking for Townpoints, but actually isn't and wasn't doing a hell of a lot to actively solve that problem. Just idly "stop doing it" "I'll wait" "Not my problem, waiting for the dust to settle"

Stuff along those lines.

yabbaguy knows what's up.

Rather odd, given the fact that he had an earlier post, so I don't think he's been silenced.

You play EM, alright. But still, what does your name mean?

I'm the meantime, JAMScum is clearly coasting. I like where my vote is planted at the moment.

The same could have been said about you during Day 1.

In all fairness to rikana what would the point of defending the person who is to be lynched by calling another player scum who he then proceeds to night kill and have both flip town be?

I'd find that much more suspect if Bristep hadn't have died in the night and was being set up for a day 2 lynch. I actually find because of that scenario that my read on Rikana is leaning town.

This is a big ol' can of WIFOM. There's a place for night kill analysis, but it's VERY easy to fall into a trap with that.

Rikana, Sky

- Who do you suspect right now?

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[FightingShadow]

FS, what do you now think of Emp? It seemed day 1 you had a bit of a hardon for him and he's not been mentioned in this most recent post. Just wondering what your thought s on him are now.

Fairly null. My suspicions of Empking in the early game were weak . . . I tend to do that when I play, find something slightly suspicious to jump on to to help steer the game away from RVS. He hasn't jumped out at me yet besides that early portion of the game.

"You play EM, alright. But still, what does your name mean?"

EM? What does that stand for? I'm familiar with some of the Mafia acronyms and such, but some of them I haven't seen, yet.

I don't see what my initials have to do anything, nor how it could be related to scum hunting, but I don't see any problem giving an answer: the first part, jam, is my initials. The second part, ftw is an abbreviation/acronym that is widely used in geek/nerd culture "For The Win." I was trying to come up with a name over at myth-weavers.com, and my normal screen names were taken, so I was trying to think of something, and that was the first thing that popped into my head.

EM is another Mafia site where someone who has been silenced will flash votes over and over again (chat-based). I only asked because the letter combination "JAM" has some significance to me beyond being something spreadable on toast. But I'll stop cluttering the thread with this now.

Also, FS, be careful. Tunneling is something Town does when they're thinking "come on, somehow this bastard's gotta be scum" and they keep pestering them over contrived details. If the IS-scum theory checks out, this isn't true, he knows whether or not he's pushing on Town or scum.

This is true. I know from experience. However, I don't get a town-vibe from IS's tunnelling thus far. Town tunnelling will often have case development, though the newfound points get more trivial as the case goes on, and are usually found in the midst of nitpicky arguing. IS didn't have that, really. He just sat there saying "Malp scum" and reiterating his reasons.

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

Shadow is being opportunistic, its like a shark smelling blood in the water.

1. These posts are eerily similar.

2. This is the trouble with getting behind in a game based only in one thread. Though I noticed the same patterns that the others who suspect IS noticed, I noticed them before I read that they noticed them. Of course, there's no way to prove that, so there's no real point an arguing it, but my vote was not opportunistic from my perspective. I made my post as I read the thread, rather than read the thread and then summarize everything. It's easier that way to quote the relevant information and include everything that you've noticed.

[FightingShadow]

Easy. The misconception is that somehow I was the ringleader in malp's lynch. The scum jumped all over that once they realized that they could let me take the fall for his lynch. I made two whole posts on my opinion on Malp, who was merely my RVS vote before I saw enough to leave my vote on him anyways.

Since scum were being opportunistic, that allowed Yabba to push on the people's wagon and cheerlead that wagon knowing that he could gain points once the Malp lynch went through. Hell Yabba, you KNEW that my plan was to go after the hanger-on scum if he flipped townie. So now you want to play the White Knight and flip this on me? Dont you see that what youre trying to pull is a scum-classic technique?

You werent very happy when I called out JAM, hell your panties were scrunched up more than his. Did JAM vote for me yet? Oh hey look at that, no he hasnt. Doesnt that look odd to you? Of course not, youre beating me up on his behalf. Im trying to figure out if Rikana or Shadow are scum, or misguided townies, but im not sure yet, seems kinda early in the wagon. Whoever plunked my next vote was likely going to be a third scum, but I figured I point this out now anyways since I know whats coming.

Either way, im happy with taking JAM out of the picture. He jumped on the Malp wagon at a very opportune time. I call him out and now he is being suspiciously quieter than normal and letting Yabba do all the work. So either youre both scum (which fits nicely with you declaring a hardcore green townie) or youre just a dumbass White Knight that deserves death for being one regardless.

My vote stays.

1. What does White Knight mean? I've heard it a few times, but haven't asked about it yet.

2. I don't like the top section of this post. It's got the air of "Well

I

certainly can't be blamed as having a role in malp's lynch. Look at all the other people who voted! They're much scummier than I!" (That should be read in a British accent). It feels like you're trying to back out of taking blame for the lynch, when you were the loudest voice gunning for it to go through.

While Shadow could be joining the IS bandwagon, it isn't as if Empking has been doing anything much insightful. He constantly votes with no explanation, and when there is one, it's minimal at best. I realize I haven't been insightful either, so call me a hypocrite, whatever, I'm lazy.

vote: Empking

This vote bothers me . . . though I can't find a reason for it beyond gut.

As for my suspicions: I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me. IS seems to be the most likely candidate to me: I find myself trusting 2 of the people on the wagon, I find that his commenting on lack of content yet adding little is as detrimental to town as lurkers yet also putting himself out there in good light, if FS seems oppertunistic to him, that seems oppertunistic to me.

This vote bothers me as well, but I can put my finger on why: he copied others' reasoning, but didn't mention that they thought of it as well. He's trying to pass this off as his own original thought, but I don't really buy it.

I know this looks hypocritical of me, but I did point out when yabbaguy said something that matched what I was thinking. SRG makes no mention of the other IS voters in this post at all.

Also, the last bit where I'm mentioned, I don't really understand what SRG is trying to say. However, it feels slightly like buddying.

Im telling you, the scum are JAM and one of these two clowns. Yabba is coming to his senses somewhat, so im not as suspicious of him right now, despite his White Knighting, I will certainly be revisiting that later. That should also clear smallpeoples a bit for now as well.

Someone drops suspicion of you, so you drop suspicion of them? This is basically reverse OMGUS . . . like your trying to keep yabba off of you by dropping him once he stopped questioning you.

The two people on my wagon are also trustable?!? trustable? Isnt that the very definition of sheeping? You should be roasted for such blatant scum tactics that youre trying to employ.

I'd add buddying to that.

SRG isn't doing himself any favors in the page 12 exchange with IS . . . which is conflicting. I don't feel like they would both be scum together doing something like this, but both look scummy now. I'd still lean more towards IS though.

[FightingShadow]

Shadow, a White Knight is those assholes that sit on their white horse and act like they are the the most confirmed townie of the bunch. They use arrogance and patronization to get their point across on all the lowlives because they believe that they are beyond reproach. They enjoy commanding others and getting the townies to follow them along like sheep; sheep who never suspect Sir White Knight of being scum. As if they commanded some extra respect from the rest. Those bastards always turn out to be scum and I make it a mission to ensure that they dont fuck the town over by endgame.

Thank you. I get what you're saying even through the bitterness. =P

FS - I mentioned that there was already a wagon in the post that you quoted, aswell as mentioning 2 others on the wagon - even if i didn't name them by names, i am by no means pretending that the ideas i presented were new, seems like a bit of a misrep to me? You seem extremely scared of perceived buddying with you, when i've made absolutely no attempt at that, have I? I mentioned you at the end of that post to demonstrate that i felt IS was being oppertunistic also and was using it against you previously, that's all.

The point revolves more around the way you said your points on Internet Stranger . . . I think it's more likely to be a matter of word choice activating my gut, now that I'm a few hours removed from my original read of it. Which is why IS is taking precedence.

[FightingShadow]

Locke Lamora replaces smallspeople343 welcome him.

Eeek, a mod command!

Welcome LL!

[FightingShadow]

I'm not convinced by the SRG case (mainly in reference to Yabba's case). I don't see much to differentiate between antitown and scummy in regard to SRG's play. How exactly does his play indicate scum over antitown?

[FightingShadow]

LL - I felt like IS looked better coming out of the argument, but IS looked worse than SRG overall. When I went back and read the original post that caused my earlier suspicion of SRG, I noticed that it was more the way he made his post that didn't sound right to me than a concrete issue.

Now, the case against him is based more on activity issues and apathy issues, if I'm understanding right. I don't see those as being indicative of an alignment either way.

[FightingShadow]

EBWOP: Oh look, the hammer!

[FightingShadow]

I knew this the whole time. I can't inhibit it further with the time press we have.

SomeRandomGuy (L-1): [yabbaguy][Internet Stranger][Locke Lamora][Empking][JAMFTW]

[???]

Unvote

- I mean, now SRG was up at

1 AM

and is plunging out analyses. That's a radical contrast. I really hope that his reaction genuinely was on the presumption that he was done.

Vote: JAMFTW

for a terrible attempt to crash another Town player. That is a MASSIVE pro-scum action if it's 3 v 8, and the reaction about an NK that I'm highly confident was never headed his way is

really

weird. It could be a genuine error and still could be a scum's vote - it's happened before, I've seen it already.

Massprod? (as soon as you're not sleepy from the sleepy stuff?)

Wow. I feel pretty stupid for missing that.

I pretty much agree with your analysis of JAMFTW based on the hammer - my only qualms with this would be my scumread on IS . . . but the night kill post made sirens go off in my gut.

UNVOTE: Internet Stranger
VOTE: JAMFTW

[FightingShadow]

I'm still content with staying on the JAM wagon

Strong FoS: Sky

You felt a reason to tell us this . . . why, exactly?