Mini #76, Black and White

[No Idea]

/confirm.

[No Idea]

Although Bloodjay's vote is a bit suspicious, I will

vote: MeMe

. Not only because I want revenge for mini 70, but because of the kill choice. In a game with no doctors (or any other useful pro-town roles), the mafia should obviously just kill the most experienced person. They seem to be following that logic, because they killed Talitha. However, Talitha isn't the most experienced person in this game, MeMe is. If she would have been innocent, the mafia would probably kill her instead of Talitha.

[No Idea]

In a game with no doctors (or any other useful pro-town roles), the mafia should obviously just kill the most experienced person. They seem to be following that logic, because they killed Talitha. However, Talitha isn't the most experienced person in this game, MeMe is. If she would have been innocent, the mafia would probably kill her instead of Talitha.

Or, they could have banked on someone putting forth the theory you just did (MeMe's not dead? She

must

be mafia!) and planned to ride that theory to get three dead townies in a row -- a plan that makes a lot more sense than just crossing their fingers and hoping a bandwagon doesn't form on them.

Perhaps the mafia is trying to get you lynched, then again perhaps not. Maybe you're scum trying to avoid being lynched by saying that's exactly what the mafia wants. I'm not a 100% percent sure you're mafia, but voting for you is (in my opinion) better than random voting. And Bloodjay is being bandwagoned by enough people already.

[No Idea]

My being suspicious of MeMe has nothing to do with other games, that mini 70 bit was just a side note. I wasn't trying to divert attention from Bloodjay, I just thought that while we're waiting for him to defend himself I might as well write my thoughts. My saying that MeMe is the most experienced player in this game was based only on her post count.

Nobody seems to be agreeing with my theory, so I guess it's crap logic. I just wanted to contribute to the game by posting my suspicions. Also, MeMe's theory that the mafia chose not to kill her because they want us to be suspicious of her is perfectly possible.

Unvote: MeMe.

[No Idea]

My being suspicious of MeMe has nothing to do with other games, that mini 70 bit was just a side note. I wasn't trying to divert attention from Bloodjay, I just thought that while we're waiting for him to defend himself I might as well write my thoughts. My saying that MeMe is the most experienced player in this game was based only on her post count.

Nobody seems to be agreeing with my theory, so I guess it's crap logic. I just wanted to contribute to the game by posting my suspicions. Also, MeMe's theory that the mafia chose not to kill her because they want us to be suspicious of her is perfectly possible.

Unvote: MeMe.

[No Idea]

I'm a bit sick right now, so I don't really have the energy to start analyzing the game. That's also why I'm not very active. Sorry.

I also think Blackhawk is the most suspicious, for reasons already stated by MeMe. I don't want to put the fifth vote on him quite yet, so

FOS: Blackhawk

for now.

[No Idea]

Isaac's argument is extremely weird. He keeps saying that MeMe is intentionally misreading Blackhawk's posts, while almost completely ignoring her actual logic. I'm beginning to think he's the one intentionally misreading posts.

MeMe's and Celly's arguments against Blackhawk are definitely valid, and Blackhawk keeps repeating the same thing over and over again instead of actually addressing any of them.

Vote: Blackhawk.

Die, scum, die!

[No Idea]

Flechter and Isaac are definitely on my scum list, but Carmine is just so much more suspicious.

Here is her first post:

Three bad guys, eight good. So, are we just going to bandwagon someone randomly for the first day? Since we already know that everyone will role-claim townie, it doesn't seem that anyone will be able to get out of a wagon moving at speed.

Bloojay's vote seems vaguely mafia-esque, but then I think mine will if I add it to his bandwagon So... I'm not sure of the most constructive way to deal with day one in the face of this. Any thoughts?

Like MeMe said later in that page, that post actually reads:
"I want to bandwagon, but I'm not sure if it will look too suspicious...could someone give me advice on how not to look scummy, please?!"

Then she spent the whole day defending herself and saying nothing about her suspicions. Her last post reads:

MeMe wrote:
Calm down, Carmine.

Okay, yes, sorry... I was a little over-het up about the whole thing (I blame real-life stuff, but never mind). Anyway.

The way I read Blackhawk's original "aspiring vig" post was as a throwaway jokey comment on the nature of his role's flavour. Lots of people seem to have pounced on this, assuming (accidentally or intentionally) that he meant that he thought he was going to be come a vigilante or similar... perhaps it's only me that's misinterpreted the original comment, but in the face of him commenting on the simple nature of the game earlier on I don't think so. I don't see it as theorizing, or claiming... perhaps I'm too likely to accept things at face value for these games

But what's jumping out at me as I'm reading the thread over is a growing suspicion of MeMe and The Mystery Celly. Initially I thought this was just because MeMe was pursuing me (and missing the point I was trying to make about how anyone can claim townie), and blamed my own defensiveness. However!

MeMe is tenaciously pursuing Blackhawk's vigilante-comment, and saying that it's an obvious conclusion that he was trying to claim vigilante when it really isn't (or it's certainly not obvious to me). Also prominent is the vocal defence of MeMe by The Mystery Celly. You seem very sure of her innocence there. I can really only track down Blackhawk's "suspicious" actions to one flippant comment, whereas MeMe's suspicious actions seem (to me) to be much wider. You're questioning the logic of others, but coming up with "facts" that just don't wash.

I think that you're either mafia, and trying to make a friend in MeMe, or you're both mafia.

Vote: The Mystery Celly and FoS: MeMe.

It's quite impressive, really: she managed to defend scum, vote for a confirmed innocent, and use a ton of crap logic in a single post.

She'll probably say that if she would have been scum she'd vote for blackhawk, but at that time nobody voted for blackhawk for a page and a half, and it looked like he may not be lynched.

Vote: Carmine.

[No Idea]

Carmine, about the crap logic in that post:

[quote="Carmine]Okay, yes, sorry... I was a little over-het up about the whole thing (I blame real-life stuff, but never mind). Anyway.

The way I read Blackhawk's original "aspiring vig" post was as a throwaway jokey comment on the nature of his role's flavour. Lots of people seem to have pounced on this, assuming (accidentally or intentionally) that he meant that he thought he was going to be come a vigilante or similar... perhaps it's only me that's misinterpreted the original comment, but in the face of him commenting on the simple nature of the game earlier on I don't think so. I don't see it as theorizing, or claiming... perhaps I'm too likely to accept things at face value for these games You obviously didn't agree with MeMe, for reasons that I don't really agree with, but I guess they're not "crap logic". Then you said that MeMe's suspicious because she voted for you, and because you don't agree with her logic. Once again that's not a really good reason, but I guess you didn't have any other suspicions, so that's also not really crap logic. Then, you said:


But what's jumping out at me as I'm reading the thread over is a growing suspicion of MeMe and The Mystery Celly. Initially I thought this was just because MeMe was pursuing me (and missing the point I was trying to make about how anyone can claim townie), and blamed my own defensiveness. However!

MeMe is tenaciously pursuing Blackhawk's vigilante-comment, and saying that it's an obvious conclusion that he was trying to claim vigilante when it really isn't (or it's certainly not obvious to me). [/quote]

Also prominent is the vocal defence of MeMe by The Mystery Celly. You seem very sure of her innocence there. I can really only track down Blackhawk's "suspicious" actions to one flippant comment, whereas MeMe's suspicious actions seem (to me) to be much wider. You're questioning the logic of others, but coming up with "facts" that just don't wash.

I think that you're either mafia, and trying to make a friend in MeMe, or you're both mafia.

Vote: The Mystery Celly and FoS: MeMe.

Now,

that's

crap logic. You were saying that TMC and MeMe are scummy because they agree with each other. TMC never said MeMe is surely innocent, she just agreed with her logic and said she didn't do anything suspicious. All of her facts seemed perfectly logical to me, and you didn't even explain why do you think they "just don't wash". You also didn't explain why is TMC more suspicious than MeMe, why can't MeMe can't be scum without TMC, or why can't they both be innocent.

[No Idea]

Sorry for not posting earlier, I was very busy on the last few days, and I'll still be pretty busy until Sunday.

Anyway, I agree with Wacky. Fletcher is also pretty suspicious but Isaac both defended scum and cast a lynching vote on an innocent (which he protected earlier that day). That's enough to deserve my vote, at least until he'll defend himself.

Vote: Isaac

.

As for bloojay, he was definitely the closest thing we had to a confirmed innocent, so I don't think it is not very surprising that the mafia chose to kill him.

[No Idea]

Unvote: Isaac

.After re-reading the thread, it does seem a bit far fetched that Isaac would behave the way he did had he been scum. I'm not saying he's a confirmed innocent (and I definitely don't recall deciding he can't be scum, Kerpulnk), but he's not too suspicious either.

I voted for him because of two things:
1. MeMe asked for thoughts, and he seemed like the most suspicious person. I was in too much of a hurry to start analyzing the game.
2. The main reason - I misunderstood Wacky's post:

OTOH (can't believe I missed this yesterday):

This is a pretty stupid set of reasons to vote for someone. I doubted that added role flavor existed, and for good reason. I didn't get it, and most townies probably didn't get it as well. .

Nonetheless Isaac placed the final vote on Carmine.

Not only that but there's the fervent defense of blackhawk and Isaac (following Blackhawk) have been on a crusade to get MeMe lynched from the start. Maybe MeMe might be mafia or Isaac is.

I think Isaac should quote his mod PM NOW.

I misunderstood the quote. I thought Isaac was referring to Carmine, not Blackhawk (that is why I said that he cast the lynching vote on an innocent he protected earlier that day). The main thing that confused me was that I knew that we didn't lynch Carmine because of her PM structure, we lynched her because she seemed to be acting from a position of guilt and because she defended Blackhawk and attacked TMC. Thus, attacking Isaac because he was on the Carmine bandwagon but also didn't think Blackhawk's claimed PM structure was suspicious is crap logic. I assumed Wacky wouldn't use crap logic so the logical conclusion was that Isaac was referring to Carmine. I was in too much of a hurry to actually check.

That said, I'm not really sure what to do next. I do think Fletcher is a tad suspicious, but not enough to be vote worthy. His post in yesterday's twilight saying that he thinks we lynched an innocent doesn't seem very suspicious to me. He defended her all day long, and when he saw that we lynched her he wanted to be able to say "I told ya!". That's not very suspicious on my eyes.

[No Idea]

My role PM:

From: PolarBoy
To: No Idea
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:00 pm
Subject: Mini #76 Role
Town Member.

[No Idea]

I'm thisclose to voting for him, but I need to hear how No Idea responds to the accusations against him before taking the plunge.

If by "accusations" you mean Kerpulnk's logic, I can only say that if Kerpulnk really thinks that I or Gammie are better targets than Isaac he's not particularly bright. When someone feverishly defends scum, casts a lynching vote on an innocent, does that again, this time "accidentally" and then defends himself by basiclly saying "oops", you lynch him, regardless of who do you think he might be scum with. We have no proof whatsoever that he can't be scum with any of the other four people (I know I'm innocent, but I'm looking at it from an objective point of view). Even him and MeMe, although I have to admit it is very unlikely, might have planned ahead their "fight" on day 1. Gammie's vote for him definitely doesn't prove anything. It is perfectly logical, and even smart for a mafia member to vote for fellow scum. But you know who's more likely to be scum with Isaac? The one who keeps trying to draw suspicion away from him. Kerpulnk, I think I'll be going for you tomorrow.

Anyway, I think that Isaac is scum and I can't think of anything he or anyone else [chough] Kerpulnk [\chough] might say that'll make me think otherwise. Thus, I see no point in drawing this day any longer.

Vote: Isaac

. If he turns out to be innocent (and the unluckiest men who ever lived), we lost. If he's scum (and not so unlucky after all), we lynch his buddy Kerpulnk tomorrow and win. I'll take these chances any day.

[No Idea]

I would like to vote for No Idea at this point, but I think that would be a little dangerous. I'm not that sure of my case.

Will you please be kind enough to explain why do you want to vote for me?

[No Idea]

That's right, Isaac - You're still alive. Which makes me even more certain that you're scum. Like you said, unless the mafia is really stupid, one of us has to be mafia. I know I'm innocent, so it has to be you.

I still don't really understand the accusations against me, maybe because none of them makes sense.

Kerpulnk's logic is bad, even if he is innocent. He assumes that Gammie can't be scum with Isaac, which is completely possible. Like I said before, even MeMe may be scum with Isaac. It seems like he's trying really hard to find reasons not to suspect Isaac.

As for my lynching vote on Blackhawk, I don't know what to say. I cast the lynching vote on someone who looked suspicious and he turned out to be scum. If that makes you suspect me something's seriously wrong with you.

My vote for Isaac today - Well, like I said, I think that Isaac is scum and I can't think of anything he might say that'll make me think otherwise. Thus, I couldn't see a reason not to vote for him. Kerpulnk said it himself - someone has to cast the first vote.

Kerpulnk's "hunch" - I've got a hunch that his hunch isn't a real hunch. It's more likely to be an excuse to voting for me.

Wacky's suspicions day three - Invisible typo's are suspicious indeed. If anyone has any idea what was he talking about I'll be very glad to hear it.

My day one vote for MeMe - That vote was based on stupid logic, I understand that now. It seemed logical then. If you want to lynch me for being new and not knowing things you do go ahead.

Then there's Isaac. I think you all know the list of the suspicious things he's done. Who's more suspicious?

[No Idea]

Yay, my first win ever!!!

The funny thing is that on night one, MeMe

asked

me to vote for her because she was sure that people would get suspicious of her if she'll survive the night, and she that it would be best if I'll say it first. Actually, I still don't understand why is it crap logic...

Wacky, you really do have amazing instincts. And what was that invisible typo thing all about?

And MeMe, you really impressed me during the whole game, especially day 4. Very well played!

Good game! Thanks a lot, mod.