NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[ToastyToast]

I've read the first 10 pages. Hoping to be caught up by tonight. What are the most important things that have happened so far? Things I should look at specifically?

[ToastyToast]

Where I am in the game right now, Parama comes off as scummier in the QT, but DH is scummier early D1

[ToastyToast]

Pine, when you get the chance, I'll be interested to know why you think Parama is scummy in the Neighborhood QT.

Already getting the replacements mixed up. That is directed at Toasty Toast.

His reaction to what kondi said and the fact that he was all for lynching me to "confirm the neighborizers." Of course, he quickly changed his mind and said it was a town-slip.

On the one hand, I understand why he would want to lynch kondi, but to try to out someone in your neighborhood for PL purposes is strange, in my opinion. If there were no connection b/w the two of us, it may be a different story.

Nevertheless, I agree with what sappo said early game about DH and am leaning that he is the scum in the neighborhood. And yes, I do think there is a scum in the neighborhood because Amrun mentioned that she herself was responsible for the roles/set-up. It sounds like something Reaper Charlie would do (put 3 town in a neighborhood), not something Amrun would. Its also very rare.

[ToastyToast]

Question: Do we know what a Town Alien is? (MoI's death)
SensFan looks like a vig kill

[ToastyToast]

No, but I happen to think Amrun isn't a bastard. Also, the fact that it is her first game = will be taking less risks.

[ToastyToast]

MKAY--these explanations aren't meant to be "cases," so if you have questions about any part, lemme know

Buttered Toast

mastin2--ZOMG CONFTOWn. Even teh mod thinks so

Iecerint--With 3 kills, I'm gonna say at least one of them has to be a vig. He didn't claim to poison anyone, sooo yeah obvtown. I also think his cases have a lot of merit and as such shouldn't be ignored

saporovirus--strong gut and decent cases. Don't understand her thing with petroleumjelly tho

Meransiel--Not seeing the scum tracker thing atm, and I don't think the wagon on him yesteday was based on much. Role-fishing is not always scummy, and it is not always anti-town. But no, I do not support a neighborhood full-claim

Hydra (Thor655 + Magister Ludi)--I had a few issues with him early D1, but he defended himself well. Should we just assume Magister Ludi isn't doing anything?

Just Toast

MrBuddyLee*--On the one hand, asking questions doesn't say much about one's own allignment. On the other hand, I sometimes get into "question mode" if I'm developing reads. A full list would be nice

petroleumjelly--Honestly, reading the game in one day meant skimming thru some of your long posts. My gut says town, but I just need to actually play through the game with you to get a feel of your allignment

Parama--Out of the two in my neighborhood, I think Parama is more likely a town. The only argument I have for him being scum is from a few details in the neighborhood QT, all of which can be explained with his history with kondi. As far as in-thread-play goes, I do not think saying "hmm, perhaps 3 town?" is a scummy stance. A few reservations: I feel like asking to announce neighborhood in thread = for towncred; also, some things about DH that I will explain when I get to him.

Pine earworm* Ythan--lolwho?

Yosarian2--You have that posting style that makes me...not want to read it. See petroleumjelly. The contradiction pointed out is the main reason your low on the null section

Burnt Toast

Shanba--I CALL ACTIVE LURKING

DemonHybrid--1) Cannot find any town motivation for the "I did it once" thing. Why was it necessary to say? Also, the fact that you found what kondi said as scummy (initially) instead of just odd makes me O.o (yes, i know parama felt similarly, it applies to both of you). 2) Hopped to the Hydra wagon when that was getting popular, and similarly hopped to the Meransiel wagon. At least you don't like Hresz!---oh wait, you were on that for liek to seconds and switched to AGM. Somehow I think that was your plan all along. 3) You call the votes on the AGM wagon opportunistic, but call him like ooberscum anyways. If there were so many opportunistic votes, why didn't you map out whose? And your hop was opportunistic too. 4)The RVS-town-cred thing is BS because its kondi we're talking about, and if it was scum aware of what he was doing, it wouldn't have been about "confirming the allignment of two people who cannot be confirmed" 5) U seem to have completely dropped your read on Hrezs. Why?

Hrezs*--OMG HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE SCUMZORZ
My analysis of Hrezs' play:
*cries* "This game is so confusing! All I can do is make a few recycled statements that have been mentioned before and hope I can get a read that isn't on one of my scumbuddies! Uh-oh's iecrint doesn't like me. I'm going to go retreat back under a rock and only come back to make a few more recycled statements." *slits wrists*

Vote:Hrezs

This seriously needs to be considered. Those who have strong town reads on him need to explain why. Scum-hunting doesn't count as a response because its artificial, contrived, and uninspired scumhunting

[ToastyToast]

I copied and pasted the player list. Some probably got left behind.

[ToastyToast]

Iecerint--With 3 kills, I'm gonna say at least one of them has to be a vig. He didn't claim to poison anyone, sooo yeah obvtown. I also think his cases have a lot of merit and as such shouldn't be ignored

What? My play this game has been total shit. What cases are you talking about?

You were the only person to see the scumminess of Hrezs. You're also the vig.

And this

GUYS a boy is cooking me something so I will catch-up on my games tomorrow. Back from the lake now.
I am sorry for a kind of delinquent start.

suh cute

[ToastyToast]

Hmm...yeh the sappo hop is bad.
Sappo, could you explain what made you change your mind? What did you "pay attention to" this time that made you focus on him?
I want to hear from CTD, of course.

@petroleum: Switched vote to wait for replacement, or is Hydra your main suspect right now?

[ToastyToast]

Had to make it a 16 point font to be 6 pages long. I kind of doubt his eyesight is so bad that he needs to do that. Calling it all a lie. Calling him scum.

May be important to note that Parama had been writing his catch-up posts in the QT, the page 20 one being written on 7/9. Take what you will from that.

[ToastyToast]

Slow game is slow. Pretty mad that Parama is replacing.
I'm really concerned with sappo's play since arriving here, and as such I find yosarian's read on her (good D2, bad D1) really odd.

[ToastyToast]

waitin for replacements 2 catch up...

[ToastyToast]

@Hydra: I already gave my reads, including my top two scum. Read. It obviously did nothing to propel the discussion, other than get sappo to make a shitty vote (who Amrun is now searching to find a replacement)
I'm mad at Parama for replacement cuz he was all like YAYYY WE R BEST NEIGHBORS EVERRRR then replaced

[ToastyToast]

Oh,
@Hydra again: I'm voting CTD because the slot he replaced into was scummy, and his posts haven't really changed that yet...Yeah, they aren't terrible but they don't scream town either

[ToastyToast]

So you're voting someone that is most probably 'null' to you? Over those other people in the 'burnt toast' category, which include DemonHybrid and Shanba?

...Hresz was the lowest on my list. CTD replaced him. CTD has not changed my read on the slot, so why should I remove my vote?

I wasn't really complaining, either. Calling the game slow-moving is just a matter of fact. It is slow moving.

[ToastyToast]

@Yosarian: Why rush? If a replacement has a chance of chaning town's mind, let them. You are sounding more and more desperate as this day goes on. Your over-defensiveness towards mastin is noted, as is your "don't lynch me!" attitude towards PJ.

[ToastyToast]

That being said, you do realize that I am at one vote right now, and it's 3 days until deadline, right? If I was scum, I wouldn't be at all worried by the attacks against me right now.

1)My read on Parama is null, not scum
2)With multiple people announcing that they find you suspicious? Yeah, you would be worried as scum. Having 3 days only limits my options, which means I'm going to have to unvote hrezs/CTD. Of the people who have a chance of getting lynched, you do look like a possibility.

What makes Parama scummier than DH, in your opinion?

[ToastyToast]

...More WIFOM...

[ToastyToast]

Thats a hammer. Was just going to say that I'd hammer @ deadline, was also hoping bowser would respond.

[ToastyToast]

@mastin: still don't like hrez/CTD town, but im in agreement on your scumlist. Why do you think DH is SK?

[ToastyToast]

Gonna have to disagree on you guys there.

Chaining lynches? Maybe you can make a case there, but given his opinion (there is only one anti-town in neighborhood), it makes sense. Not saying this is something town would say, just acknowledging that there are better suspects. We're probably going to get little info. out of Shanba, so i'm leaning that wagon right now.

Vote:Shanba

[ToastyToast]

@mastin: I'm not THAT newbish.

@killerjester:
What happened in the QT

DH: Im gonna die. KILL SHANBA AND YOSARIAN WITH FIRE
TT: Um, no. I'm way more likely to die. Shanba and yosarian are sumspects. sry bout having you there too
DH: k we're pseudo masons now

[ToastyToast]

@CTD: Why no mention of yosarian and shanba? What do you think of the shanba wagon?

[ToastyToast]

Among the worst justifications for a vote I've ever seen. He's also not mafia, though, because of parama/demonhybrid's ultra push on him at the start of day 1.

No. Ur being voted because of your ambivalent stance on Parama. your bad lurking/sudden upsurge of not lurking is sketch as well. Those were just the reasons why I picked you over yosarian

[ToastyToast]

just says that their allignments are unknown to me

[ToastyToast]

Er, the CTD-jester argument is going over my head atm. Yosarian and Shanba still make more sense in context of parama/bowser.

[ToastyToast]

@Xanatos: Because we already have a vig (Iecrint).

[ToastyToast]

But if he DOESN"T claim VT (and he's a vig), then Iec provides a great target for the scum team, which in effect PROTECTS other PR's.

Why is that so hard to understand? You want to take protection away from Iecrint in favor of people who are unclaimed? You know how inaccurate that can be? Its enough being sure your protecting town, and narrowing that list down to protecting PR's is unrealistic. Claimed PR's are better to protect.

[ToastyToast]

If Parama/Bowser had been more active, that lynch probably would have gone elsewhere.

Yosarian, why are you voting someone with no wagon when you have an FoS on Shanba, the biggest wagon? Is there a large difference in your confidence b/w the two reads?

[ToastyToast]

Lets lynch Shanba and vig one of CTD/killerjester. These walls...

[ToastyToast]

What DH said. And I don't see no counter-claim, so...

Lets lynch Shanba and vig one of CTD/killerjester. These walls...

Can we lynch Shanba, and then Iecerint can shoot KJ? That's really the best of both worlds here.

GJ @ the copying. lol.

[ToastyToast]

Lynch pool should be yosarian, xantos, buddylee, hydra.

I happen to have a town read on buddylee and hydra, so my bottom-two-have-to-be-scum ppl are xantos and yosarian
I would vote, but my guess would be a 4-man scum team, which makes us 5:3

[ToastyToast]

Plan:
Lynch one of Yosarian/David
Iecrint shoots the other
CTD protects Iecrint
Either DH, myself, or CTD eat the NK
repeat for hydra/MBL

[ToastyToast]

you had a guilty. And didn't claim. *facepalm*

[ToastyToast]

Your guilty was on N1...Your slot should've immediately revealed itself D2, which lasted a LONG time.

Well, if Xanatos is telling the truth, then there is probably a rolecop (that would explain targeting you for a roleblock).

[ToastyToast]

Well I have a feeling all the town PR's have been revealed. Should a mass claim take place?

[ToastyToast]

wait...KJ is deaD and flipped SK. wut u talkin about. LOL at suggesting i'm more likely a second scum neighbor than DH, btw.

1)Your theory is such a huge threat and suggests that town has absolutely no power. Whats more likely? That town has the typical investigative, killing, protect setup or has an assassin and 2 investigative roles?
2) gunsmith doesn't automatically mean guilty. For example, a gunsmith will inevitably get a guilty on a vig (aka iecrint is not an assassin) and no guilty on an SK/a single member of the scum team for balancing purposes.
3)What the hell is a scrambler?

[ToastyToast]

Unless your scum *gasp*

[ToastyToast]

Sorry I've been gone! Catching up.

[ToastyToast]

Well, technically I've already read so...

So people were voting DX, he says something about mod PM's, and then....nothing important.
Meh.

MBL and DX IS a 1v1, I just need weigh the threat of the roleblocker thing. Keeping DX alive over MBL means that if MBL does indeed flip scum we'll have both an investigative role and a killing role....

Merr I've been torn over the two TBH...@DX: How long have you been playing mafia/do you have a history of witholding results?

[ToastyToast]

If you had gotten a cop read on MBL, would still have with-held that?

[ToastyToast]

A Cop read.. in honesty, probably. As I said, I've always been taught that revealing with less than 3-4 reads as a Cop or variant isn't worth it, barring special circumstances. It makes you a target for kills/roleblocks and essentially shuts you down.

You know, I believe you but completely disagree with you. A dead unclaimed cop is much less useful because he never had a chance to get any reads.

[ToastyToast]

Vote:MBL

Need to show where I'm standing. Even if DX made a dumb mistake, he sounds genuine.

[ToastyToast]

@Hydra: But you do agree we have a 1v1 and no investigative result on Yosarian?

[ToastyToast]

Too little, too late, MBL. If you are indeed town, you didn't do enough to convince me as such.

I doubt that DH is scum, and as such think we are on the right track.

[ToastyToast]

I do apologize for lynching Parama and saporovirus--I can see how that might have been perceived as scummy of me. I will try harder to convince you next game.

Yes, because everything in this game can be attributed to your brilliant cases and content. OH WAIT

[ToastyToast]

aight everyone needs to claim night actions

[ToastyToast]

still going to wait...I want to see who CTD protected as well. Hey, you never know!

[ToastyToast]

V/LA 13-14, then another V/LA from 17-20

Hopefully I'll get some internet access but no promises

[ToastyToast]

Mod: Prod on Toasty and CTD

V/LA YOU

And reading this makes it a clear 1v1 between yosarian and Hydra.
Which one claimed bulletproof again?

[ToastyToast]

I think its Yosarian, but I need to read. U guys and your long posts

[ToastyToast]

whose the person with the LOLBULLETPROOF claim?

[ToastyToast]

Also, who did CTD protect?

[ToastyToast]

I have a headache. And I still think yosarian is scummier.
Letrs wait for CTD

[ToastyToast]

sigh. Putting logic over gut here....

Vote:Hydra

[ToastyToast]

Ok so I think DH's last words HAVE to be mentioned now that he's been shot.

Basically we were bouncing between Yosarian and Iecrint (Iecrint more for the fact that his power was limited and as such could be an extra kill). he basically told me that although it was odd, not to doubt Iecrint and to lynch Yosarian immediately no matter the circumstances.

So thats where us neighbors stand, because I agree with him

[ToastyToast]

Of course, we could no lynch to cause another scum kill and get better odds, but I doubt it'll be very helpful.

[ToastyToast]

Force*

[ToastyToast]

prod dodge. I'm settling into my dorm atm, starting school.

[ToastyToast]

DH: Yosarian and Hydra were putting on a show because of the amount of time we gave them to distance
If Iecrint works with us, this day should be easy
TT: The whole nomorevigshots was a little sketch tho...at least it took my whole conftown thing away
DH: Don't secondguess it. Trust me and lynch yosarian.

Thats a recap of what happened last night.

[ToastyToast]

I have from replacing in had bad feelings about yosarian, and as such I do find him scummier than CTD.

The problem for me is that Yosarian came up with a lot of good reasons as to why it makes more sense for CTD to be scum.

[ToastyToast]

FYI, I'm also reading up kayyyy

[ToastyToast]

Hresz was super scummy, thats a great point.
Also, CTD would've been under lots of suspicion if not for that doc claim.

[ToastyToast]

Yosarian has less connections to the scum team is the main thing I got from skimming.
I just find his posts to be very long-winded...in the way where it looks like someone trying too hard to look good.

Hrezs was my first vote. Really, the only thing that stopped me from lynching CTD was the doctor CC.
Also, having a doc in a setup like this would be ordinary. The fact that he counterclaimed a SK, and not another scum-member, seems an odd play (if we look at him as scum).

[ToastyToast]

@Yosarian: Its not the length but the substance that makes something scummy. Scum often make bloated posts with minimal information, and also do so to put off people reading the game. Given that I replaced in the game, this makes me see someone making catching-up a huge pain in the ass, which is often done by scum on purpose. I'm not saying to change your playing style, but I can see scum reasons to talk in such a way.

[ToastyToast]

@CTD: but claiming doc would be a sexy gambit that paid off

[ToastyToast]

If we have to no lynch, we have to no lynch.
And I have the exact same thing in my mind about you :/

[ToastyToast]

Why am I not surprised?

@Amrun: What happens if there are no kills repeatedly (like, if we no lynch and scum no kills again)

[ToastyToast]

I think Toasty would be the harder one to convince, because he probably feels more personally responsible to DH, who wanted to lynch Yos.

[ToastyToast]

FFF.
@Yosarian: Again, a lot of your posts were bloated/full of unecessary convo.

@CTD: Of course its a WIFOM situation. For one, having 4 people alive is better than having 3. Also, the fact that I am the fence-vote means keeping me alive is perhaps the only chance for a win (If you are scum).

Similarly, Yosarian may have kept me alive because he 1)clearly saw this or 2) Could tell that I was starting to shift my view to you.

I find the first option more realistic in that Yosarian killing me would have increased the chances of your lynch, whilst keeping me alive could lead to problems given my allegiance to DemonHybrid. When there is a clearer outcome to winning, why do it? In my opinion its not ALL WIFOM, as taking me out would simply be the better option for Yosarian as scum.

Iecrint, if I had died, would your opinion have honestly changed about who to lynch?

PEDIT: Iecrint's not having a ton of shots makes him less-confirmable, but he nonetheless is more OBVTOWN then you two.

[ToastyToast]

Can the Fat Lady's Chambers just tell us who to lynch instead? That would be more helpful <3

[ToastyToast]

TOASTY CAN WE LYNCH CTD AND THEN BLAME ME?

IS THE GHOST OF DH HAUNTING YOU?

WHO DO YOU PERSONALLY THINK IS SCUMMEH?

DID YOU LEARN FASCINATING FACTS FROM REREADING EARLIER?

I'm leaning CTD lynch. I think we have to just make a decision at this point. You should make the first vote tho so I can blame you l8ter

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, you haven't stated any reason to think I am scum other than a nebulous "Yos has made good points", "wouldn't it have been a sexy gambit" and "I was suspicious of his predecessor". So I have a question for you:

Do you think I am a scum rolecop?

I think your a scum doctor.

[ToastyToast]

I will think it over one more time today.

[ToastyToast]

I wish I could get some thoughts from Toasty. He probably has different preconceptions and may do a better job of evaluating my perspective.

Well I think your evaluation is a good one. The only problem I have is that we are seriously in a position with SOOO MUCH WIFOM, and I may have to make a simple educated guess.

@CTD: The way to convincing me is not by calling antagonizing Iecrint by saying YOU DISREGARD EVERYTHING and antagonizing me by WTF ARE U DOING. It comes off like scum struggling to get out of the net he's caught in.

Also,
1) To explain my mafia doc thing...
a) You claimed doctor. If we assume fake claims, then doctor would be the obvious one for mafia doctor. Having a claim and being unable to back it up without legitimately having said power is disastrous for scum. This is why someone who claims a doc most likely is not lying about a protective power.
b) There were only two kills night 2. Something was blocked. Perhaps it led scum team to discover the ID of the SK. (@IECERINT: Did you claim the Meransiel kill? Can't remember)
c) Town has lots of investigative power and an alien, which means a doc is not completely necessary
d) Why the hell would an SK claim doc? Like, it makes no legitimate sense.

[ToastyToast]

I'll check that post out and I just skimmed yosarian again.
Hoping to make my decision by today, but bottom line is I'm making a decision b/w gut and logic, and as such it sucks ass

[ToastyToast]

No, thats not it. I just feel like I haven't given the two enough thought to make a decision. I usually know what I want to do by the time Lylo comes around, but I'm just at a loss. And skimming ISO's only do so much.

I will lay my vote down tonight. I think its time the game ends.

[ToastyToast]

Vote:CTD

Apologies if I'm wrong, but he just fits better in connection to the other scum. I have my doubts, but less doubts than I do with Yosarian.

[ToastyToast]

CTD, you did a great job. I was torn till the very end

Also, to Yos, I hope I didn't come off as someone who just didn't like you. I just had a hard time getting a read on you this game, partially because your posting style is somewhat hard to read (and as such, being NULL all the time can actually be useful in mafia games).

What made me pick CTD was the fact that my reasons for suspecting Yos were very much subjective. Just because I don't enjoy reading someone's posts doesn't make them scum. Phew.

[ToastyToast]

I wouldn't say it was THAT unbalanced. I mean, our protective power was gone D1. We also didn't have a cop (investigation power was there, but no cop). Also, the neighbors don't have confirmed allignment. If we were MASONS on the other hand...the fact that kondi townslipped made it a little harder on scum.