Newbie 1170: DarthYoshi's Medieval Mafia! (Fin--Who won?!)

[DaLetterEl]

/confirm

[DaLetterEl]

I must say that that was the most dry pregame I have ever been to during my entire time in college.

Anyway hi peoples!!!!!!

So I read a little bit of games before, and usually it seems that someone asks a series of random questions to get people talking? Forgive me if i am doing this too soon, if you

really

want to get a random vote out there.

1. U MAF?????
2. ASL?????? (honestly, location is probably the only important thing so that we can sort of have an idea of when people will post, but I'd like to get to know who I'm playing with, too. Maybe we can become friends!)
3. What is your first language?
4. What is your previous mafia experience?
5a. How would you describe your mafia play style? Do you like making long posts or short ones? Do you consider yourself aggressive or passive? Stuff like that.
5b. Barring knowing about a typical play-style, what kind of personality are you? Saying your myers-briggs or something could be cool, iunno.
6. What is your favorite color?
7. If you had to make a semi-random pick for who would be lynched today simply from their username, who would it be?
8. Favorite Sport, and favorite team in said sport? If you dislike sports, then...um...what is your favorite thing to do in your spare time?
9. What is something cool about yourself that the above questions did not address?

Anyway HELLO! I am Da Letter El.

1. NOOOOOOOOOOOOPE
2. M/19/New Orleans, USA. (That is CST, aka GMT -6). GO SAINTS
3. Mi primera lengua es Ingles. (I am taking spanish in college and probably still messed that up xD)
4. I never really played semi-serious, no outside contact sorts of games until about 8 months ago maybe. Since then, I played a little bit of epicmafia, and participated in 2-3 forum games which involved a decent bit of scumhunting. Played a lot of games on a pokemon site (haters gon hate), but they have outside contact, and the games really are totally different there to the point of sort of ceasing to be mafia.
5a. When I post, I typically post a lot, and due to a general interest in theory and philosophy, will often philosophize about set-ups and the like in games where that is warranted. Here, due to the rotational nature of the roles, it seems less important to do so, as we can't ever really be sure of things like that. Not usually very aggressive, but I've always wanted to try being aggressive, so who knows, I might try it this game. Figure out a style that works for me and all that jazz.
5b. Pretty much the definition of INTP. I would hyperlink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTP but I am tired of trying to work the URL button on this website. I typically like joking around online, though, so often times I may switch between being super srs face to borderline trollin'. But of course I wouldn't troll anyone on this site ^^.
6. Red
7. Zemelo-Franko. I have my eyes on you, Carmelo Anthony.
8. Basketball. I am a Lakers' fan by blood; living your entire adolescent life in Los Angeles does that to you
9.

I'm the best

I love a good debate; I did a bunch of policy debate in high school, and that's probably the reason I post too much text online sometimes. But most importantly, as a result of my policy debate experience, I can rap really really fast =o

Oh and before I forget, VOTE: duckhunter4242 because my name is DuckDuckPwn on a video game I play religiously. Don't need a DUCK HUNTER hunting the DUCK.

Survival of the fittest boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[DaLetterEl]

Fakinha, why is white your favorite color? You realize that mafias typically are portrayed as wearing white button-down shirts, correct?

I would like to note to everyone that my color test has only failed me once. So you all should be very careful with how you answer it!

[DaLetterEl]

You're no fun

But why is blue your favorite color? You do realize that when a mafia chokes someone out, their face turns blue, correct?

[DaLetterEl]

@Shinki If I were to answer my own question, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using it to develop tells? I think that using the uncertainty of how to "correctly" answer the question is more important than my answer to the question, especially considering I am the one who proposed the question in the first place. What purpose does it serve for me to answer the question to my very own test? I've already set the rules to that game, so my answer should be meaningless to you, not to mention that my answer to said question would obviously fit under something that I consider to be a "pro-town" answer due to it being my test. Why are you so curious as to how I answer the question? Are you afraid that you will answer my question "incorrectly" and want a model answer to copy? Perhaps you are afraid of the knowledge that Barney the Dinosaur killed my innocent childhood in a similar fashion to the mafia killing innocent civilians? Why is it that you like the color purple?

@tim_hill1990 Why is red your favorite color? I am sure you realize that red is the color most commonly associated with mafia. Also thanks for saying my name was cool, and then proceeding to get my name wrong D: However, I'm not sure if I should be thankful for that seeming compliment, upset at getting my name wrong, or perhaps there is something more malicious...perhaps you are trying to suck up to me?

@Zemelo-Franko While I would love to get into a debate over the merit of Jungian theories, I merely used it as a popularly used framework for people to refer to to summarize how some model may predict how they act, and to possibly develop some tells when a person seems to veer in a very significant way from how they act. In addition, I thought it would be interesting to get to know some people. And while personal experience may mean nothing, I do find it largely true to my own personal experiences. Anyway, this is neither the time nor place to debate the merit of Myers-Briggs.

Why is orange your favorite color? I am sure that you realize that hardly anything rhymes with orange, just as hardly anything rhymes with mafia.

@duckhunter4242 Why are you so quick to jump on the Fakinha wagon? Do you not trust my color test? I have only just begin said test. Are you afraid of the test and trying to push a lynch before I can complete it? In addition, you seem to sheep behind what Zemelo-Franko has to say, not only in terms of a vote, but also in terms of your favorite color. Do you enjoy following Zemelo-Franko? Perhaps you follow him because you know he is town? Or perhaps you follow him because you trust your mafia partner's judgment? Why do you like the color orange?

@Fakinha Why are you being so defensive about what your favorite color is? If people were truly mafia by what color they liked, by your logic, I would be mafia every game, as would tim hill, which would be quite silly! I am going to assume that white is your favorite color simply because "white = peace and i like peace." Is this a fair assumption? And as others have mentioned, why do you seem so afraid of my color test? Do you know that I am town and are afraid that there may be some merit to my test? Why are you so afraid of a little bit of poking and prodding?

[DaLetterEl]

Oh also, my posting is going to be a little bit limited for a couple days, since last night I dropped my laptop and broke my laptop charger, so I'm going to need to get that fixed or replaced at Best Buy, which is pretty far from campus. Luckily, I do have a back-up laptop, but that one is hilariously busted up, so it won't be TOO limited, but I won't be surfing the net for 6-9 hours a day as I usually do.

Just a heads-up.

[DaLetterEl]

==lyingbrian - I already answered that my favorite color is red, and already explained why my answering said question is stupid in my response to shinki; I have already set the terms of said test, so my answering it makes little sense, especially when it may foster people trying to answer the question in a way that seems to copy my answer. However, if you and or others give me a good reason to consider saying why red is my favorite color, I will do so, but I simply don't see the point. As my chemistry teacher once said to me after i asked him how hard his test would be, 'It is pretty easy. after all, I got an A on it.'

I also find it curious that you think that I am finding scum based on what color someone chooses. I have already pointed out that such a system of logic is stupid, so I think that we are two ships passing in the night here. That is quite clearly not the purpose of the color test. 'Orange = scum,' or 'Blue = town' would be a pretty terrible test. I am willing to excuse your current vote as merely glossing over this thread due to being busy, but I fail to see how asking questions like that is necessarily deserving of a vote.

Luckily, the only directly functional question that I asked was the question about time zones and first language, both of which are answered in your location to a large extent, since sometimes arguments can be over just a misunderstanding in what someone is saying, and it's also useful to know around when most people here are posting, so that people with no life like me know when to possibly come in and check the thread and expect to see a certain person post. Most of the others were there just to get to know people, since IMO it's more fun to play against people that you have some sort of knowledge of, instead of them being just some robots on the internet who occasionally post things to analyze and such. Besides, when else this game are we ever going to get to know who we are playing against? I respect and understand being busy, though, but it's no excuse to hide from the power that is the color test. I still would like to know: what your favorite color is and why it is your favorite color?

Also, you seem a bit defensive of fakinha. What in particular of fakinha's post do you agree with in terms to my color test?

ps the soft-claim thing you allude to, if i am interpreting that correctly, seems to be taking a jab at my questions after the color test. the little 'barney is purple and killed my innocence' thing is just me having fun, if that wasn't painfully obvious. it's just what i've always done with the color test; call it tradition.

finally, as an ic, what information that isn't present in a beginner guide would you find particularly useful to us?

==fakinha - see; it wasn't so painful to say what your favorite color was. thank you for answering =]. i would like more people to answer my questions, whether they are the initial ones or my extrapolation on the color question!

in addition, what was it that i did that prompted a vote from you? was it simply the fact that i like the color red?

==sorgster - i would try to play as similarly as humanly possible in terms of posting habits regardless of my alignment, since i'm pretty sure that that's how you're supposed to play. you play to win, regardless of being town or scum. so as scum, you have an incentive to survive, similar to the town one. and as town, the way that is most visible is to directly to find and lynch the scum and to keep yourself from being lynched, as you are usually the only person you know is town. as such, to win as scum, it stands to reason that you would have to at least attempt to try to find and lynch scum, so as not to be lynched yourself. as such, my play as town vs my play as scum should be as similar as possible, since if i were scum and i were to survive by lynching the scummy people who aren't me, then i win, and as town, if i lynch the scummy people who aren't me and/or i have outside reasons to suspect are mafia via some role, then i have the best chance of winning.

you also have not answered my question on why your favorite color was whatever it was. iirc it was blue. why are you so hesitant to answer my question? i am certain you must have seen the question, as i've been asking everyone the same question.

==Painkiller - oh, i haven't taken it too far. i'm just getting started =o. why is blue your favorite color? did you know that the word "blue" can be found in the word "bludgeon," which is something that a mafia might do?

==Zemelo and duckhunter - thank you for answering =]

And i forgot to answer this before:

==Shinki - Calling me DLE is perfectly acceptable! I have been referred to as anything from any of DLE, TLT (The Letter The), Dale, El, and L. I honestly don't care what you call me.

[DaLetterEl]

there seems to be an activity overview thing below page numbers. that seems to have number of posts, as well as if you press the number of posts that a person has, you get to see all of their posts in chronological order

response to lyingbrian tomorrow

[DaLetterEl]

honestly, and please don't take this personally, i think anybody answering the question is quite silly as it doesn't really give us any insight into whether or not they are scum. i'm also heavily against 1 player having a 'test' of sorts to separate scum from townies (especially this early in the game). it makes it seem like you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy, thus why my vote is on you.

What would you recommend we start doing, then, if what I am doing is not productive? This is a newbie game, and while I don't expect nor want you to hold our hand all the way through this -- as there is still the distinct possibility that you are scum, not to mention that a sheeping town is a bad town, regardless of who they follow -- I don't think anyone here

really

knows how early-game works in the sense that it seems somewhat confusing to see how games really transition from RVs to actual discussion. I just did this because I thought it would get reactions, and it had worked for me in the past.

"As an IC, you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy" would seem to logically follow from the above insinuation of my having some knowledge which other people don't have. However, I don't think that your presumption is sound in terms of it being scummy in the first place, and as such think it would be silly to vote for you just because you are using your outside knowledge and experience from games on this site, versus my outside knowledge and experience from games on other sites.

i don't really think you're finding scum based on someone's favorite color, i agree the logic is stupid. again, the whole logic of a made-up test only 1 person has the answer key to is quite stupid, imho.

one could argue that your position of experience places you in a similar position of having "tests" which only you really know the answers to. You are pretty clearly "the expert" in terms of knowing what constitutes something scummy due to being here longer than the rest of us, which places you in a position of power where you can ask questions which you have found to be very good at weeding out scum. While you certainly have not done this yet -- in fact, all you have really done so far, and correct me if i'm wrong, is call what I'm doing stupid, agree with fakinha that what i am doing is stupid, fos duck for a quickvote, further explain why what i am doing is stupid, and then give one quick piece of advice without really explaining it -- the fact remains that this naturally would place you in a position to have tests and questions which you find particularly good at weeding out scum. While the situations are clearly different in some capacity, I think the comparison is valid in some respects.

However, if you buy the validity of the comparison, just as you being "experienced" and using said experience should not necessarily constitute being scummy -- if your experience helps bring the town a victory and helps other town members to become better, then you should use that experience -- I fail to see why you think my asking these questions is necessarily scummy. While you can still argue that the "color test" is stupid (and it probably is, but I am not lying when I say that it has only failed me once), and that doing "stupid stuff" is a waste of time and/or not "pro-town," I find the insinuation of my using something which I personally know to look for as being

necessarily

scummy seems to be flawed logic on your behalf.

i still refuse to answer your question on the principle that it does not reveal anything about my alliance; i live in Jacksonville, FL (EST), and i mostly do graphic design stuff.

there is literally 0 harm in answering the damn question. If you honestly think that our day 1 lynch will be ultimately decided by some color test on the first two pages of the thread -- which seem to generally be filled with RVs and some questionnaires and barely starting into actual questions -- you are either extremely foolish, or just have an extremely negative expectation of newer players in general or of me personally from the bit you have seen of me. It got discussion started, a quickvote in the first page of the thread, some people being reluctant to reveal something so innocent as a favorite color and the reasons why it is their favorite, and allowed me to mention barney the dinosaur and mafias in the same sentence. That's a pretty good start to me. I'm inclined to believe that you just simply think that what I am doing is "stupid," and like to categorize "stupid" as "not pro-town." I can tell you first hand that I have gotten the most pro-town reads I have ever had from really stupid people.

Oh, and please, ask some questions which reveal things about my, or anyone else's alliance. I already answered the question "U MAF?" Oh, maybe you could ask me "U TOWN?"! Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "does not reveal anything about my alliance," but that response feels like a cop-out that could be used to virtually any question.

And thank you for at least somewhat answering my questions from before; graphic design sounds pretty cool! If only I were at all artistic...

these 2 questions are intertwined. you are interpreting my sarcasm correctly, you are using the color people choose as their 'favorite' to make a silly claim about why mafia would choose that color as their favorite. it's similar to my saying, "only mafia ask questions about people's favorite color". i agree w/ Fakinha that you are manipulating silly information to your whim rather than analyzing it to a logical conclusion.

how am i manipulating information, when my only vote so far has been an rv in my first post? you seem to be the one trying to make something out of nothing. i am skeptical to call you mafia as a result of it, but it's certainly not pro-town to make "so much to do about nothing." Of course, you could argue the same about this "test," but I think it's pretty clear that I am not taking people's immediate responses as definitive reasons to vote for someone.

this may be your biggest contribution to the game. sequence of votes tells you more than you might think, as does a player's post count.

The above leads into two questions, one related to the stuff above this that i said, and one related to this quote of yours.

First, how do you feel players should use their votes? I have always been curious as to when putting a vote on someone to try to pressure scum into mistakes vs. keeping your vote as something which can be seen to scum as legitimately threatening, since while the vote is the town's biggest weapon, if a townie just keeps quickly flopping their vote from one person to another, that would seem counter-productive (at least to me). What's the balance that we should be aiming to hit? Or does that just come with time and experience?

Second, while vote sequence and post-count, as you say, matter, how do they actually matter? Or is this just like the color test where you're going to keep the secret to yourself

@shinki thank you for answering! ^^

oh and

@darthyoshi the end of your last post makes you feel so distant from us, so lonely . you can answer some of the questions in my first non-/confirm post, if you want...but beware, i might find out you're mafia if you answer the color question incorrectly!

...

I don't know what else to ask you though, sorry D:

[DaLetterEl]

But I must that you look a little too friendly townie, Letter. Trying too hard, maybe?

What do you mean by "too friendly"? I think it's important for me to understand what you mean by that before I can answer your question.

If you mean that I'm not raging at someone for implying that I'm stupid, I'm typically pretty cool-headed, regardless of what people say of me. Unless they insult some sort of lifestyle choice. In that case, I typically find offense to it. However, I think the likelihood of that happening -- not to mention rules in the first couple posts seemingly discouraging any kinds of actions like that -- is slim to none.

If you mean that I'm not immediately placing suspicion on those that place suspicion on me, I do disagree to some extent in your interpretation of my post. There are things in LyingBrian's play which I have not liked so far, but I have not felt strongly enough about those differences, nor inferred enough about his alliance from some of those differences, to feel reasonably confident in judging alliance to the point of voting him, or anyone else for that matter. I know enough to know that just because someone disagrees with you does not necessarily make either one scum. Not all townies will agree on reads, not all townies will agree on interpretations of posts, etc. Maybe I'm just naturally cautious to suspect anyone or to put any real weight behind my suspicions via putting a vote on someone -- as I allude to in my first question to LyingBrian on advice on voting -- but I in the past have, barring a random vote in the beginning of some games, almost exclusively voted for those I have a more than reasonable feeling on being scum vs. not. From the bit I have read about games on here, people seem much more willing to "use" their vote, if that makes sense. I just have not played enough to feel confident in doing so yet, nor in knowing when is the right time to do so. While someone more experienced than myself may have changed their vote to someone like fakinha, duck, or lyingbrian via some of the reasons already presented in the thread, I feel as though I have not heard enough from any of the above to feel confident in putting my own vote on them.

If you mean that I am actually being polite and thanking people for posting the thing about color, I feel as though I should thank them for doing so. It seems only right to do so. What, am I going to say "screw you for answering my question"? I just think that it is common courtesy to thank people for doing stuff that might seem a bit "odd." It shows some respect to me and the questions I am asking, and I appreciate that.

If you mean something completely different, I'm not exactly sure what you mean and would love it if you could explain what you mean by saying that I'm "too friendly"

[DaLetterEl]

busy past couple of days

will re-read and post tomorrow when it isn't a friday night

[DaLetterEl]

starting to realize that posting a lot of stuff is counter-productive if no one wants to read what you have to say. I'll try cutting it down a bit. Anything that has any relevance to a read, though, will still be longer than most of the posters here post.

responding to some of the parts i found relevant in lyingbrian's post

a wall of text defending his color test

I get it, posting that much was unnecessary. Blame boredom.

you misunderstood my FOS. my FOS was not b/c of how quickly duck voted, but rather how quickly he jumped on a bandwagon w/o giving any additional information about their vote, but rather copying the reason the first vote gave.

Thanks for the clarification; I agree that that would be a good reason to suspect someone, and I happen to largely agree with the suspicion on duckhunter at the moment, which is why I have kept my vote on him. And that's not changing until I get a good reason to back off of him.

i'm very curious about something. how many games have you played & used your color questionnaire?

Other than on epicmafia, where I've used it to reasonable degrees of success on 3-way lylo, 4 times, not including this one. I used it once on day 1 and it worked; the others I did later in the game on lylo to change the pace up a bit. It failed once before; the other times it put scum in a position where they became scummier and scummier. The other time, I was lynched, but my read was wrong based off of it anyway.

if you think my calling your questionnaire "stupid" equals "not pro-town", then again you misinterpret me. it was a semi-decent way to kick off the game, but to make statements like "blue is the color of someone's face when the mafia is choking them" doesn't really help get the ball rolling, except to talk about whether or not the "color test" is a good way to start RVs, which is what we've done so far.

I really don't see why you continue to harp on the "x color is bad for y reason which has to do with mafia" as being somehow important. I have already said that it was just me trying to poke some fun. Why does this still concern you?

I have already pointed out that it is literally just two simple questions. Your refusal to answer them, not the question itself, has caused this thread in a decent part (see - content of nearly all of shinki's posts, majority of content in my posts, and a good bit of your own as well are the ones that come to mind) to become much more side-tracked than it should have been. Was that your intention? Because as of now, you have starkly failed the color test, and I feel as though you have attempted to use the confusion to your advantage. Why do you continue to refuse to answer the question? It is two simple questions (plus me getting to make a joke about how that color relates to being mafia). It being extraneous, while I do agree is for the most part not as valid as a final reason to vote for someone, should have been a good place to get discussion going. Instead -- while I do take some of the blame for this, and to an extent continue to do so just by posting a response to your complaining about it -- you harp on the question itself.

While it seems as though you have backtracked a bit in your tone from your last post to this one to a middle ground which I find more reasonable, I find the backtracking to feel fake. While I can certainly see how it could be used to put some pressure on someone, it feels like a dishonest way to do so, and the backing off feels like a way to feel more pro-town to your average townie for simply "being reasonable." I don't mean to suggest that it is the reasonability that I find scummy; not at all. I find that the seeming changing of your position on what I've been doing and saying to feel dishonest.

based off pure speculation, i would say that you are mafia DaLetterEl, just b/c of the amount & frequency that you post (mafia like to talk a lot, but again this could be personality). i don't actually think this is the case, though, as i have no base to compare your current post count to other games.

On other sites, I was used to posting twice a day, and usually would have at least one post of substantial length when I either felt extremely bored or when I really had something to say. However, I think that most of the people I was playing against kind of knew that essentially whenever I posted, that I would say something rather substantial. Still, I've probably posted too much, in that multiple people are complaining about simply not wanting to read my posts thus far, which sucks, because I want people to read what I have to think and say.

@ Fakinha, Yeah, my post was pretty unnecessary, but at the time, that was really the only post that had been made since my last one, and I was bored and didn't know when I would be able to post again. So I posted that.

In one of your latest posts, you say that I'm weird (which is probably true...), and then place some thoughts on players based on some of your reads. Why in particular do you find LyingBrian to be "almost town?"

@ Shinki, you seem to be decently active, and yet I haven't heard much about your thoughts on other players. Would you care to explain your thoughts on the current lynch on duck? do you like it or do you not like it?

@ new guy, deasvail, welcome! why are those your favorite colors? did you know that the initials of orange and purple make up OP, which is what mafia members try to do to innocents - overpower them?

@ duck, as of now, who are your one or two strongest FOS's, and why are they strong FOS's of yours? If you give me a convincing argument against someone else, I might be more willing to vote for someone else.

[DaLetterEl]

DaLetterEl: What do you think of people connecting your long posts with likelihood to be scum? Do you think there is a connection? Also, how reliable do you personally think your colour test is? Why did you tell everyone to be careful with how they answer it?

I do understand what they mean, in that since people don't have much meta on me, and most posters here post 1-4 line posts, that my play is "different" from most people playing. I disagree that the size of the post necessarily makes someone scummy; I think that posting lots of fluff is a better indicator. Still, I agree with some of the complaints in the thread about how no one wants to read something super long, especially if much of what is in the post isn't a direct read on someone. If people really aren't reading what I'm saying, that is unproductive and I can understand how people read that as not pro-town.

I'm inclined to believe that there is more of a correlation between talking differently than one normally does. I think that post content is typically more of a meta read than a read which is set in stone. If someone typically is super active with lots of questions and scumhunting and then starts lurking inexplicably and posting not much of relevance (or posting at all), I think that that makes someone scummy. And vice-verse.

I think that the color test is probably not as reliable as I would like it to be, but it is a place to begin and get a little bit of discussion going. I don't think it's strong enough to lynch independently off of, and isn't as good as something that isn't extraneous, but it has been good enough to get good reads on behavior before and can lead to in-game behavior that can be read. It also can throw people off, which can be good.

Why not warn them? The color test is serious business.

What are your thoughts on posting length? What are your impressions on some of the other players from your read-through of the thread?

In response to DLE: I didn't know that the initials made overpower. I thought everyone knew that OP meant "Obviously Pure". Anyway, I've liked orange for ages, probably because orange-coloured lollies were my favourite when I was 5. I don't know about purple. I just find it appealing for some reason.

thanks for answering!

@ duckhunter

His walltexts are unnecessary and off topic

I am taking this post as an implicit answer to my question to you in my last post.

Yeah, the fakinha post was a bit unnecessary on my part, but i've already said why i made it. I don't think that most of my post in response to lyingbrian was unnecessary, though. I'm naturally a bit verbose, sure, but I think that most of the content in those posts are useful. A good deal of it explains what I felt about the test, some others got some advice from an IC, and others helped me to get some responses from him and start to form a bit of a read on him. And not much that I've said is off-topic besides a bit of joking around, but it pretty much been accompanied by questions I've had or thoughts of mine.

Which posts of mine have you read? Is the size of my posts the only reason you view me as scummy, or are there specific things I have said that you find suspicious? Why do you change your vote to me only now? Because it feels to me as though you are reacting to someone telling you what you should be doing to not look scummy rather than doing it out of a legitimate change in opinion or a deliberate thought to put pressure on someone.

[DaLetterEl]

In 3 hours, I'm on fall break; will post most of my thoughts then when I can get a good read on the thread.

What I've seen so far leads me to agree with LyingBrian in large part in seeing a potential relationship between painkiller and duck, but I haven't done much more than a token run-through of posts. Also did not like fakinha apologizing for his vote, as if he knew it was a bad vote. May just be a noobtell rather than a scumtell, but still dislike it. Sorgster continues to not say anything while still somehow looking town to me.

Expect a decent post from me in 3-6 hours.

[DaLetterEl]

hi kirbyoshi, failure to pass my color test will lead to your immediate lynching obvvvvv

no pressure and have fun!!!!!!!!

anyway, not totally with it, being first night of fall break and all woooooooooo, but promised a post but dont be expecting much. my b

shinki, i would rather post my findings after cjdrums replacement is like yoooo and were like yooooo. so yea

fakinhas post bothers me a little bit as i mentioned before. why did you vote for shinki when you did, and then what was your reasoning for removing your vote? i see the whole i know her from another forum thing but what do you mean by your voting her at first, it just seems weird idk

sorgster, iso i guess is to just focus on someone and pressure them a bit? and why do you suggest that we iso fakinha now? do you not like the current iso on duckhunter? or is that not an iso?

lyingbrian i think is overly paranoid about this test thing. take a chill pill, its just a test

i cant decide if duckhunter is being defeatist as a bad townie or as an obvious scum but i am getting more scum vibes than some kind of overwhelmed town vibe. so duck, please start contributing to this town or face the music. you like are rolling up into this defensive ball and shit and it's really not helping town so if you could ask people some questions and scumhunt that would be awesome. most people have asked the questions i wanted to ask you already tho, except you only say like one read on scumminess but no one else. who else do you find scummy and why?

shinki, is your whole i have my eye on you fakihna post an fos or just a random response? and what do you think is the scummest thing that anyone has done this game?

throw some deasvail on it, why are you afraid of putting duck on l-1?

newguy hit us up with your first thoughts and shit, as well as questions you have or whatever

[DaLetterEl]

@lyingbrian because =(

@shinki dw about it, although i'm curious why you feel the need to apologize about it. it seems as though you might be pretty busy, but are there any questions you have for anyone?

@yoshi if duck is town, i look at you and deasvail in particular. you because of your seeming eagerness in your recent posts' tone to lynch him, deasvail for his hesitation to put him at l-1, especially after the ic outright said earlier that the person who puts another at l-1 is more carefully examined. if he's mafia, i look at painkiller and shinki, as i happen to agree with lyingbrian's assessment of duck's posts in relation to painkillers', and i dislike most of shinki's recent posts. I can understand being busy, but it almost feels as though she doesn't want to say anything out of fear of saying something wrong.

How would you answer that question?

my present for the kiddies who hate my tldr

[DaLetterEl]

And please guys, don't take my questions as a scumtell or something like that, I really just want to know more about the general gameplay, take it as an offtopic

i understand that, but i'm curious why you then ask people to not look at it? if you were town, wouldn't you have nothing to worry about? i can see some reasons why, but i'm curious why you said that.

I would normally find fakinha's post just randomly defending shinki as scummy, but i think it's just them being friends and not liking sorgster for saying something against her, so i dont much see the point in asking about that.

speaking of which,

@sorgster would you rather have a shinki lynch today than a duckhunter lynch? Why or why not, and can you compare the two in "scumminess?"

[DaLetterEl]

Because hammering when the IC and the replacement for pain (and pain i guess) have literally said nothing is a good idea.

Right.

Are we still allowed to discuss stuff between the hammer and when the mod notices it?

[DaLetterEl]

oop, just reread the rules. you're right, we can.

why did you hammer now?

[DaLetterEl]

VOTE: Deasvail

[DaLetterEl]

Posting going to be limited for the next 3-4 days because of school stuff and parents coming to town for homecoming, but I don't know if that's a formal V/LA or not.

Just a heads up; will try to post something substantive tomorrow before they arrive though.

[DaLetterEl]

Only things I dislike so far are Shinki's saying "there's scum on the wagon," as if to imply that she knows that there was a scum on the wagon. I know it's not much but it irked me when I read it. I also feel as though her playstyle has just seemed to radically change from being more passive and fun to very aggressive and accusatory. I wouldn't give it as much weight in a beginner game as elsewhere, but I found that weird.

Fakinha, what are your thoughts on DeasVail?

[DaLetterEl]

i answered kirbyoshi's question because I thought it was a valid question and didn't see the harm in answering it; i was hoping that it would lead to a bit of discussion but I think that it not doing so is partially my fault for then not going and asking anyone any questions about it. my opinion did not change over the course of the night cycle, and i haven't been able to give a great read-through of the thread yet, but I will be able to on monday afternoon. as such, a lot of my opinions from then are the same as my opinions now.

we should be using votes for pressure, but i haven't had the time to really pressure deasvail. i was hoping other people would, because i find his play, especially near the end of d1, extremely fake

[DaLetterEl]

Where is DLE in all of this?

Hey, welcome, Velazanth!

I have a paper due tomorrow (well, today i guess), but I'll post after my classes. I meant to post on Monday afternoon, but my laptop straight-up died during the afternoon. I'll post once I have the time to get a better read on things, which will happen tomorrow guaranteed.

From what I've read recently, I don't like Shinki's recent play, but I'm not reading it as necessarily scummy. More thoughts tomorrow.

[DaLetterEl]

Nope, not in the right state of mind for a REALLY long post if you get what I mean ^^

Shinki, are you claiming cop?

Noobtown game one, just trying to figure out game dynamics. I guess I'm trying to avoid sheeping in G1. Just following the impressions garnered in my read. Trying to catch up :/ Kinda lurky in D1. I guess I don't have anything solid against her..

What do you mean by this? Why do you feel inclined to avoid sheeping? What is it about sheeping that is so bad?

LyingBrian, congrats by the way. But as a question, how do you typically get scumreads? Do you usually place more emphasis on trying to get "team reads," or do you focus more on individual reads, or are both important? Also seeing as how we're both currently voting for Deasvail, who if anyone do you see as a potential mafia partner for Deasvail?

DeasVail, I see your reasons for voting for Shinki now and agree with a good portion of your arguments against her, but can you restate your original reasons for voting for Kirbyoshi, since I saw that pop up in one of your more recent posts? Also, do you see the potential for a Kirbyoshi/Shinki scumteam? Why or why not?

Fakinha, in your most recent post, you seem to imply that you support a deasvail lynch more than a kirbyoshi lynch; do you have any particular reasons for that?

Kirbyoshi, i see you post something about Shinki's "stupidity" making her appear more townie, yet still have your vote on her. Why is this? Do you feel as though this is -- as you mentioned before in a distinction in sort of response to my argument against deavail -- a matter of trying to ACT townie versus BE townie, not, or is the comparison of the two scenarios not applicable here? Who might you think is a possible partner with shinki -- if that's who you still suspect -- and why?

[DaLetterEl]

@DLE

Nope, not claiming that.

Then what makes you so sure that kirbyoshi is scum?

@ Kirbyoshi

If she flips scum, Fakinha is most likely to be her partner.

What makes you say this?

@ Deasvail

Thanks, I'll re-read that in a bit when I'm a bit more sobered up

@ Fakinha

Of course I do, read LyingBrian case. After re-reading the thread, You and Deas became the main suspects for me.

What is about me that you find scummy?

[DaLetterEl]

Sorry for you needing to prod me, Yoshi =/

Will re-read and post something substantive tomorrow right after classes get out.

Not much has changed in my reads from the bit that I have read,

and Velazanth is instatown for saying 420 ftw.

[DaLetterEl]

Ok, LyingBrian; I'll split it up and separate thoughts on players with bold headers, and sub-headers underlined.

But I'm really only going to focus this on two people, but will post about more than that.

Fakinha

So what I did yesterday was re-read and do an ISO on Fakinha. Why Fakinha? Well, as much as I'd love to say "because of the Shinki/Fakinha relations," it's really because his posts are short and I was lazy in terms of doing what I thought one of the easiest ISOs would be first (I wanted to ISO everyone yesterday. Damn you reddit) . Do note that I haven't done a thorough ISO of anyone other than Fakinha, but have re-read everything said by everyone bar some of D2 Deasvail.

Relation to Shinki - Fakinha

I found -- as I think some people have been alluding to earlier -- the IDEA of Fakinha sort of pseudo-defending Shinki by defending her as a player, while not defending her play. I can see how in most circumstances, as well as possibly this one, how a player could view that interaction as being a way to defend a partner while simultaneously putting some distance between the two of them. The quickvote on Shinki, if you look at it through this lens, could be seen as trying to get a mafia partner to start talking more. He at one point jumped to criticize Kirbyoshi for what he felt was an unreasoned vote for Shinki.

Still, I don't think that that characterization of his posts is entirely true. While he does typically ask for her on things more than anyone else, I really do think that it's more a function of them being friends than them being scumbuddies. I wouldn't discard the idea, especially given Shinki's D2 play, but I'm much more skeptical of the line of thought "If Shinki is scum, then Fakinha is her most likely partner." I almost find some of their interactions to indicate the opposite. It feels much more as though Fakinha is denying the possibility that Shinki is scum largely because of his past background with her.

Relation to other people - Fakinha

I think Fakinha's most likely partner is probably LyingBrian if anyone, not Shinki. He tends to agree with most of his thoughts, although this also can be attributed to simply agreeing with the IC. Kirbyoshi partner I'm neutral on; I don't see anything which really indicates that to me one way or another. Velazanth one unlikely; most partners aren't assholes to their partner in-thread . Deasvail one k, although less for a perceived "asshole effect" (which definitely should become a term of art in mafia). Probably more likely than a Velazanth one and probably more likely than a Kirbyoshi one from the bit where he notes how people on the BR mafia site he plays on do stuff like this; his focus on deasvail feels a bit tunneled at times, usually agreeing with other analysis. I don't dismiss a Shinki partnership, mind you -- I think it's probably his second or third most likely one for a few of the reasons I mentioned before -- but I think that his relationship with Shinki in-thread feels honest. His ones with LyingBrian and Deasvail feel "more fake."

His thoughts stay relatively consistent on every player bar Shinki at times, and I think he's been playing pretty well other than that. Probably one of the people I least want to vote for today, but most want to keep my eye on as the game goes on, if that makes any sense.

His play in a vacuum - Fakinha

I think that nothing Fakinha's really doing is super scummy; I'd like to see him do some more of his own analysis, and he's starting to do that a lot more now. I like how he's been playing more recently barring his viewing of Shinki and Lyingbrian, and his subsequent focus on Deasvail without his own reasons for doing so.

DeasVail

Now starting to realize why people hate my tl;dr posts, and your posts are shorter than mine ;_;. Hopefully my underlined topic headers makes that easier for people!

General Thoughts - Deasvail

Deasvail seems to be very obsessed with making sure his arguments make sense -- which I think is good. However, I think that the way it is focused at times appears a bit scummy to me. Immediately after his post on D1 where he justifies his hesitation (which after a re-read isn't quite as scummy as I had originally thought it was [although I still dislike it]), in post #173 he just goes "LOL, just realised that my post doesn't make sense." It implies his reading his normally reading his posts over to make sure that they make sense. Which while town should do this too and doesn't independently mean "ZOMG HE'S MAFIA," it does indicate much more caution than normal, which could be an indication of being scum. I know personally, when I'm scum, it can take me 3 times as long to make a post as when I'm village, because I worry about EVERYTHING. So while maybe bringing in what I know about myself to apply to others may not be fair in terms of a read, I think it's still largely valid.

...but then I kinda wussed out on analyzing his d2 posts other than his more recent ones with replying to LyingBrian and such. But I do remember

intellectually

agreeing with a lot of his points throughout the day. Shinki

is

playing poorly. Asking questions

isn't

scummy (even though Shinki at times seemed to imply that it was). I don't know if I agree with some of his justifications for his actions in terms of how I read the situation. His response to why he eventually went to vote for duckhunter in terms of caution could indicate -- as would the above paragraph's argument -- that he's just a very cautious town. His logic was something along the lines of "I wanted more discussion to happen."

To be honest, I had misread earlier and had thought that he had said two different reasons for why he was voting for duckhunter, but after a quick re-read and ctrl + f "duck" on deasvail's iso page, it seems he's been pretty consistent. I thought he had changed his argument at one point to...I can't remember but for days that thought was in my head. I'll post it if I remember.

More Finalish Thoughts - Deasvail

UNVOTE: Deasvail

My suspicions of him have largely diminished because of the re-read and seeing his consistency. He just seems to be a cautious, logical player more than he seems to be scum.

Shinki

I think most of the reason I didn't see you as so scummy was because of Fakinha's posts, not yours. That's changing substantially. Your play if you aren't cop seems to indicate someone telling you to suspect Kirbyoshi, and you doing a pretty bad job about it, since you don't know how to really build a case on someone. I had read all of your early d2 through the lens of you claiming cop -- it just felt like you were an obvious cop. You claiming VT makes me need to re-read all of your posts, but there are so many

I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in that you're just a bit overwhelmed by people today being like "EXPLAIN EVERYTHING" and not really having the answers to do it. And I remember some of your posts about not having the answers other than gut to feel relatively honest. While I can see honesty there being a bit scummy if someone just straight up told you to suspect and push kirby (especially if he's your partner, and

he's the person I see as the most likely Shinki partner for this reason

), I can see it also as just simply being overwhelmed a bit and realizing that you don't really know what's going on.

Still, if you could do a re-read on a couple players and try to start getting some reads on behaviors, that would be really cool. Because as of right now, despite being called out for not being super pro-town, you have reacted more by rolling up into a ball and seeming to almost take the suspicion personally. We don't think you're terrible. We just want to hear more of your thoughts, and we'd really like it if you could re-read when you get the time to do it and give us thoughts on those reads.

Kirbyoshi

Am I the only one who reads all of his posts in a very disgruntled tone? Disagree with LyingBrian that his posting not much is necessarily scummy; it seems to be his playstyle to do that more than anything. Will re-read this more thoroughly, though, but I wasn't getting a whole lot out of his posts. Most of it felt...not fluffy, but like...irrelevant? Irrelevant's not the word, because it usually was related to the discussion. I don't know how to describe it. He'll be my first re-read because the content of his posts is pretty mimimal.

Still very much dislike his egging on of the duck vote d1. Not much else other than perceived relation or disavowing of relation with Deasvail that I really saw.

Questions:

LyingBrian

What independently are the scummiest things you find in Kirbyoshi's play?

Fakinha

Can you do a full-on ISO of Shinki? I think that while you're probably a little bit biased in terms of how you might interpret her posts, you also have the most meta on her, and I also think it might be good for your read on Shinki (which seems to be that you think she's not playing pro-town but that you don't want to vote her because a. it ends the day and b. you're not as convinced of Shinki = scum as you are other people).

Deasvail

I see you still have your vote on Shinki. Before I do my ISO on shinki, what kinds of things do you think that I should look for? You clearly have a reason for voting her, so just a couple key issues you could point out to me before I do so would be appreciated.

More specific thoughts on Kirbyoshi and Shinki, as well as thoughts on Velazanth and LyingBrian after I get back from classes.

[DaLetterEl]

I guess it's up to DLE now.

Yeesh, why the pressure?

Kirbyoshi and Shinki still remain as the people I most need to re-read for, so I'm definitely not hammering as it stands right now, and we still have a few days anyway. I'll ISO them both when I wake up.

Really.

Fakinha, can you summarize a couple of the ideas which you had in your ISO on Shinki? I don't need everything from it, since you seem to imply that you had a lot, but just a few of the reasons or posts which really convince you would be nice.

Shinki and Kirbyoshi, is there anything you want to contribute or say before my vote that you think would convince me not to vote for you? Is there something that you want to say that you feel is otherwise important for you to say before the lynch?

[DaLetterEl]

Mkay, did quicker ISOs than I wanted to on both Shinki and Kirbyoshi, but ISOs nonetheless. I still want to wait and see what kirbyoshi has to say prior to this vote if anything.

[DaLetterEl]

god really

I get on to see this shit

[DaLetterEl]

And no, kirbyoshi, I was not shirking responsibility for a hammer. I had a debate tournament this past weekend and wanted to reread today to see if any discussion developed. I want to symbolically VOTE: kirbyoshi as this was how I was leaning prior to this self hammer shit.

If shinki turns up scum, I love a lyingbrian lynch tomorrow.

If she turns up town, we honestly don't learn that much, although I lean towards kirbyoshi/deasvail as a team.

I spent earlier today reading all of shinki's past games on here and a couple of kirbyoshi's, and essentially decided that shinki was town trying to push a lynch when she really didn't know how to + felt under attack by people pressuring her. I read kirbyoshi's seeming defense on the logic against deasvail to be an indication of kirbyoshi being scum, as in none of his prior games that I read would he really audibly disagree with something against someone else. His posting meta of short posts is consistent, but the tone of them isn't.

Anyway shinki don't selfhammer. It's not protown.

[DaLetterEl]

I think that you would be best, as I really only feasibly see you/shinki, fakinha/shinki, or kirbyoshi/shinki scumteams. Velazanth and shinki I can't really see together, and Deasvail...ehhh. I don't really see that. I particularly like a lynch of you because I could see you in night phase telling shinki to push a kirbyoshi lynch, and then you did damage control. I see that as more likely than a shinki/fakinha scumteam, when I honestly believe that their interactions were because of them being friends. Kirbyoshi/shinki I could see simply as an attempt to bus a partner gone horribly wrong, as well as both generally not being very helpful as town. However, out of all of those, I like the possibility of you and shinki together best.

[DaLetterEl]

I meant that I couldn't see you two together. I thought about it in my head and didn't think it was right.

[DaLetterEl]

Fakinha was a pretty obvious cop and was honestly the main reason i didn't see shinki as scum, as he was telegraphing extremely hard that lyingbrian was clean. Didn't want to say it because I was hoping mafia would be dumb and kill someone who wasn't fakinha.

FOS DeasVail for generally being a solid player and somehow NOT catching onto that, and keeping his vote on Shinki despite that formulation.

Stronger FOS on Kirbyoshi for basically being 100% scum fmpov. His reaction to the Shinki lynch was absolutely horrendous, and his play on d2 as people including myself have already outlined before reeked of scumminess. Heck, his d1 was pretty bad too from the way he was asking "what next?" after duckhunter was lynched.

[DaLetterEl]

Oh and ps GUESS WHO FAILED THE COLOR TEST

KIRBYOSHI

[DaLetterEl]

Fakinha was pretty much my only 95+% town read on d2; I really could have only vaguely seen him with Shinki and really could only see him realistically with LyingBrian. So when I was thinking about scumteams, I was thinking more from the standpoint of "I am pretty damn sure Fakinha isn't mafia; who else could possibly fit with shinki?" And then I just looked at posts and lyingbrian's posts replying to shinki and could vaguely sense a connection there. I also was extremely puzzled by shinki's play on the whole, and couldn't really attribute that to any mafia that is playing other than someone more experienced hoping a partner would push a lynch on someone. Given that, I thought the read made sense, as I could see someone more experienced being like "hey, you should pressure xxxx." Similarly, I could see a kirbyoshi/shinki team being vaguely possible through just a complete collapse of a bus, but even then I kind of doubted it.

But honestly, I'm really indecisive about most things, so I doubted my actual PR read on Fakinha a lot. I had a vague PR read on him d1 (heck, page 1...) after his quickvote on me, but I've usually been wrong on PR reads in the past, so I tend not to trust them. And after my ISO on him, I kind of had that reinforced. So I think most of the reason that I still viewed a Shinki/LyingBrian team as possible was that I viewed it in a vacuum as possible. I generally had pro-town reads on Fakinha regardless of the PR read, which was enough for me to not really see him as a likely scum.

When I say an obvious cop, I don't mean "HOW DID NO ONE KNOW HE WAS COP OMG." I mean that the signs were kind of obvious on a re-read and that a lot of the vibes from d2 I at least was getting from him seemed to indicate that.

And I wasn't exactly in a great mood when I made that post today; I tend to post in a more angry and emotional manner when I'm not in the best of moods.

More later.

[DaLetterEl]

sorry i got inactive

[DaLetterEl]

But yeah, velazanth that was terrible

[DaLetterEl]

I mostly just got pissed off when it seemed like most people playing just straight up didn't care about this game. So my interest dwindled extremely quickly after the beginning of d2.