Tracker, 2-Shot Vig, Jailkeeper, 1-Shot Cop, Innocent Child (PM version) - scum picks three of these for town with no double-ups.
Encryptor, Role Cop, 2-Shot Redirector - town then gives scum one of these roles. Encryptor might not be on the same level as the other two, so maybe something else - or weaken the other two?
It stands to reason if 2:7 with a Cop or 2:7 with a Doc is unbalanced, that the same variations in the 2of4 setup is unbalanced also - especially given that scum has a Role Cop in each variable.
If 2:7 with a Cop produces a 35% winrate for town, it should be worse if that same setup now has a Role Cop.
In post 255, Hoopla wrote:It stands to reason if 2:7 with a Cop or 2:7 with a Doc is unbalanced, that the same variations in the 2of4 setup is unbalanced also - especially given that scum has a Role Cop in each variable.
If 2:7 with a Cop produces a 35% winrate for town, it should be worse if that same setup now has a Role Cop.
For some reason, I misremembered 2of4 was 2:9. Oh well.
In post 255, Hoopla wrote:It stands to reason if 2:7 with a Cop or 2:7 with a Doc is unbalanced, that the same variations in the 2of4 setup is unbalanced also - especially given that scum has a Role Cop in each variable.
If 2:7 with a Cop produces a 35% winrate for town, it should be worse if that same setup now has a Role Cop.
Maybe. But a role cop in such a quick game isn't likely to be too much of use. And now in 2of4, the scum won't know whether they have to worry about a doctor protecting or not. In F11, they could see a cop claim and then look at whether they had a RB or not. Now, they have to take a risk of the cop being protected.
Not a big fan if scum in c9++ knowing exactly how much power town has by their roles. They also know if there is an sk, and the sk knows the setup. Part of the appeal on the old format was neither side knew exactly how much power was in the setup. At best a general idea.
One Hamster to rule them all!
One Hamster to find them!
One Hamster to bring them all!
And in the sawdust bind them!
In post 258, Quaroath wrote:Not a big fan if scum in c9++ knowing exactly how much power town has by their roles. They also know if there is an sk, and the sk knows the setup. Part of the appeal on the old format was neither side knew exactly how much power was in the setup. At best a general idea.
Serial killer always knew the town power in the setup based on what powers they were given. That part is unchanged.
Mafia always knew within 1 the town power (2 goons + Godfather? 5T or 4T). The change here is that they probably know which of those it is, and whether there is a serial killer or not. Which isn't exactly ideal, but not a serious issue, IMO.
In post 263, izakthegoomba wrote:And they're even worse as Town PRs. And SEs and ICs are likely more use to scum than town.
Which is, IMO, where the Newbie setup balance issue stems from.
While I agree with you on the utility of experience, that doesn't stop F11 from being, a problematic setup.think of it as a failed evolutionary branch of C9 - whereas C9++ explicitly goes for balanced variations, F11 has two variants that are not fun for one faction or the other.
I still think Trendy and Subversive shouldn't be binned. i like the setup quite a bit and I'd rather have it tweaked than binned. What if 2 extra townies get in?
Okay, fixed up the wiki for Tit For Tat and C9++. Didn't really know what to do with Faith Plus One, but it's probably close enough to balanced and a couple of people like it, so I guess the whim of mods and players can determine if it's successful - there's nothing lost by approving it. At the same time, I'm removing 2:2:9 Mountainous from the catalogue - I'm not binning it, but it shouldn't be in regular rotation because we have a bunch of 2:2:X setups that will fill instead of it - if an experienced mod wants to run it, they can.
Don't know what to do with Hard Boiled or Operating Room yet. Where's Patrick? I need his help for Pick Your Poison...
On the topic of Pick Your Poison, during my recently completed game one of the players pointed out that of the three times it had been run, the scum had never picked cop; it was always doc/RB. Is there some way we can force scum to give town something more helpful?
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
In post 267, Xalxe wrote:On the topic of Pick Your Poison, during my recently completed game one of the players pointed out that of the three times it had been run, the scum had never picked cop; it was always doc/RB. Is there some way we can force scum to give town something more helpful?
Yeah, the current version doesn't really work. My suggestion was something like this;
Tracker, 2-Shot Vig, Jailkeeper, 1-Shot Cop, Innocent Child (PM version) - scum picks three of these for town with no double-ups.
Encryptor, Role Cop, 2-Shot Redirector - town then gives scum one of these roles. Encryptor might not be on the same level as the other two, so maybe something else - or weaken the other two?
So, town get three roles and scum gets one, which seems a lot more balanced than 2 and 0.
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
I like those, though I think I can pick out which ones will take the place of doc/RB. But making town give scum a PR is good. Not that it matters much, but do scum know who gets their power role?
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
Ah, so town doesn't know who gets them either. Interesting...
I'd run it again. A+ (unless Patrick says no, in which case you get a C).
"I, too, would prefer to know the Xalxe of my demise." - Felissan, 2022
- On this day in history: mundanity, and terror, and food, and love, and trees -
