NY 150: Mob Money Mafia GAME OVER

[Bunnylover]

Why are we voting SlySly again?

[Bunnylover]

I don't remember NM hinting at soft claiming nor confirming Mastin as town.

Vote: DG

[Bunnylover]

@DG: No, I was in the process of putting my vote on you. but then the crash happened.

[Bunnylover]

I apologize, I forgot about the game with Spring Break and all ._.
Not much going on.
Whats the Connection between DG and Lowell?

[Bunnylover]

NM confirmed mastin?

I don't remember NM hinting at soft claiming nor confirming Mastin as town.

It was about a 5 page discussion between me and NM about the history of and difference between masons and neighbors on this site. If you don't believe NM and Mastin are co-masons, you should be voting one of them for being lying scum.

I don't remember any discussion about NM and Mastin been co-mason.
I remember the discussion of the difference between neighbour and mason, but not claiming.

At the moment I'm going to

Unvote

and wait for Sly to explain a little more.

[Bunnylover]

This logic is bad. You're seriously recommending a lynch on Damon not because you scumread him, but because he's playing badly if he's town? Come on.

In a game not so long ago, I was a cop. A 3rd party revealed his alignment and I said we should lynch him because a 3rd party lynch would be a sure fire thing and would prevent a mislynch. He convinced everyone I was an idiot and got me ran up to L-1 where I had to claim. Obviously, that stole the cop role from the town. I later got RB'd twice and the town went on to end that game in a loss.

The situation here has some similarities and I have taken a similar defensive stance in both instances. Preserve town PR's, lynch the duck.

My conclusion from DG's claim, was that DG is either:
1. Scum trying to pull some BS
or
2. A cop needlessly outting himself on D1 under no pressure

My thinking about his lynch:
If it's #1, awesome.
If it's #2, his lynch is deserved for personally stealing his role from the town and also erases the possibility of future WIFOM surrounding his role. Lynching him also prevents the possibility of running up other townies and potentially and needlessly outting even more town power roles.

------

On the other hand, if we keep DG around, we force scum to kill or RB him. If they do neither, he can provide some results. Since I'm the one that's been recently pushing his lynch the hardest, he could investigate me and that would shut the magpies up about me.

I'm open to suggestions, but at this point and considering the nearing deadline, DG seems to me to be the most viable lynch candidate.

But your saying that we should lynch the cop, or claimed cop, because he outted himself as a cop.
Would it not be more beneficial to let scum attempt to kill him (hello, doctor role?) or make scum continually roleblock him allowing other roles to go freely?

[Bunnylover]

I really need to remember about this game.
BB at L-2 means a claim.
What I don't understand is why the wagon grew so fast on him.
From what I read, it was because this isn't his town play, but no one yet to explain the difference between his town and scum play.

Pine literally had zero posts yesterday. I had not seen Pine post in this game. At all. Mind explaining to me why he was "almost certainly town"? There's no possible way you should expect me to get a townread on someone off of zero posts.

This looks like bullshit.

You do realize we had like 20 something pages to go off with the other thread right? You are speaking as if the other thread never existed and it was impossible for Nacho to get a read on Pine from it.

Ya.

No.

VOTE: BBmolla

I am trusting Pine, but I believe he is telling the truth about Bunny who is also another good lynch.

BB wasn't here when the other thread was up, so what is scummy about asking Nacho to explain his town read on Pine?

[Bunnylover]

By the way, if we were two Town Neighbors, scum would have offed one of us to "expose" the other in order to get a free mislynch. They didn't.

Just like you weren't trying to expose Bunnylover?

I don't like the odor Pine's giving off, right now.

UNVOTE: - BBmolla back to L-3.
VOTE: Pine

This is a remarkably stupid post. Par for the course with McQueen, though.

I outed both myself and BL as Neighbors in my first post in the old thread, while BL was trying to keep it hidden. That is

not

what I'm talking about in 286.

If we were both Townies, one of us would have been killed. The flip of a Town Neighbor would more or less condemn the other, giving a free mislynch. Since they

didn't

go for the easy mislynch, that means that there

is

a scumbuddy in the Neighborhood. It isn't me, adding to the volume of evidence condemning Bunnylover.

This is totes scumMolla. Like, so hard it's giving me a boner from how obvious it is. With the sputtering, and brashness, and the

daring

us to make him claim? BL trying to cover for his mate just makes it clearer.

Vote: BBMolla

Back to L-2.

Don't agree that someone scum.
Won't vote them, unless its deadline.
Point out why I don't agree with the reason people have presented to why they are scum.
Ask for clarification.
Conclusion?
Bunny must be scum with BBM.
Really?

[Bunnylover]

Ebwop:
Not sure why it wasn't posted, but on Pine first quote I meant to put:

The only problem with scum doing that is not everyone believe in the Town v Scum neighbor in this situation, I think only 1 or 2 people agree with it. Therefore all they will gain is killing that person, the situation on the other person won't change.

[Bunnylover]

@Bunnylover - I'd like to have a list of your reads.

At the moment my mind is set on Pine, Oversoul, and Sly.
OverSoul - I'm a little shakey on OverSoul. His vote on BBM was lackluster, but later made sense with his unvote when he stated that he didn't remember that BB wasn't in the previous thread. I just can't grasp how much of that is true and what not.
Pine - He's trying to do everything in his power to get me lynched based on meta. Wouldn't be so bad, but his whole case is based on meta which I just can't believe town would risk. But this may just be OMGUS, trying to figure out exactly what it is.
Sly - Sly and the whole Nacho thing is just weird. No one can call Nacho softclaiming, but he is strong-ho about it.

[Bunnylover]

Sorry for my absent, a little hectic in my life atm.

Pine -

I forgot to ask, is it possible to paraphrase or quote things from the QT or is that against the guidelines? I can't find anything regarding it in the game rules. I think it would be a gigantic help if you could paraphrase some of the things Bunny said, but yeah

This is what I said summary (in case I'm not allowed to copy+paste):
I claimed I was not scum.
Wonder why Pine was so jumpy to start calling someone scum
I explained what would happen if we assume one of us is scum, saying that the QT will be pointless
Then said that I would like to have someone to reflect ideas off, then decided on his alignment.
Thats all I said.

[Bunnylover]

Apologies for my recent absence, I've had very limited access to the site in the last few days. It's been site-wide, confirm here if need be.

Sorry for my absent, a little hectic in my life atm.

Pine -

I forgot to ask, is it possible to paraphrase or quote things from the QT or is that against the guidelines? I can't find anything regarding it in the game rules. I think it would be a gigantic help if you could paraphrase some of the things Bunny said, but yeah

This is what I said summary (in case I'm not allowed to copy+paste):
I claimed I was not scum.
Wonder why Pine was so jumpy to start calling someone scum
I explained what would happen if we assume one of us is scum, saying that the QT will be pointless
Then said that I would like to have someone to reflect ideas off, then decided on his alignment.
Thats all I said.

Pine do you agree with this? ^

More or less. BL has of course portrayed it in the perspective that gives the benefit of the doubt to him, but those are the basic facts. I began with saying that I suspected him, he pled "why can't we just get along" and that confirmed my suspicions that he wanted to use the thread to manipulate me. Town has no use for a Town-Scum Neighborhood, only scum does.

Still good on a BB lynch, Sly or BL are also acceptable.

You didn't suspect me.
The first post (after T-Dog) was you calling me scum, not suspecting me as scum, but calling me scum.
You then posted (I still haven't posted), this is my interpretation of your next post, that you are not willing to change your mind about this read and that we should keep it "real".
I then post what I posted in the thread. The reason it gives me the benefit of the doubt is because nothing I said had any affect on you thinking I was scum. You already decided on the fact I was scum.
Your response was that I was trying to play a game. You state that meta states 1 member of a neighborhood will be scum. Its not you, so it must be me. You do not want to engage in any QT conversation with me unless I am cop confirmed innocent.

Please be free to correct me if I over-assumed anything or am lying about what happened in this quicktopic, which you won't because its the truth. I believe this is a pretty good accurate summary of what happened.

[Bunnylover]

Arright, so your argument then is to lynch me because I've annoyed and mocked you. I could forgive it if you thought there was a Town/Scum Neighbor dichotomy and had concluded that I was the Scum Neighbor, but you're just a butthurt ten-year-old.

McQueen has absolutely no credibility in my eyes anymore, and I will be making every effort not to engage in his ego-stroking until he grows the fuck up.

This is the problem right here.
You got it so stuck in your head that someone has to be scum in the neighbor that you refuse to consider anything else.
Holding onto site meta is going to get you lynched, and if your town you need to stop.

[Bunnylover]

Arright, so your argument then is to lynch me because I've annoyed and mocked you. I could forgive it if you thought there was a Town/Scum Neighbor dichotomy and had concluded that I was the Scum Neighbor, but you're just a butthurt ten-year-old.

McQueen has absolutely no credibility in my eyes anymore, and I will be making every effort not to engage in his ego-stroking until he grows the fuck up.

This is the problem right here.
You got it so stuck in your head that someone has to be scum in the neighbor that you refuse to consider anything else.
Holding onto site meta is going to get you lynched, and if your town you need to stop.

IN OTHER WORDS, I KNOW YOU'RE TOWN. AGAIN. AND WILL TRY TO LYNCH YOU IF YOU DON'T SHUT UP AND STOP PUSHING THIS ANGLE THAT YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT.

Seriously people. Bunnyscum self-confirms right here.

Unvote
Vote: Bunny

No excuses, no one else. Bunny. Right now.

Because everyone following you right and I must be panicing?
You know with those 8 votes............ oh wait 2 votes on me?
Theres no helping you. You've dug your own grave.

Vote: Pine

[Bunnylover]

Holding onto site meta is going to get you lynched, and if your town you need to stop.

How is this anything other than scum making threats?

HEY, STOP MAKING A CASE AGAINST ME, OR I'LL LYNCH YOU FOR MAKING A CASE AGAINST ME. NOT BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE SCUM, BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING A CASE AGAINST ME.

Thats not a case. A case is when you go Bunny is scum because of this evidence or connections in his post or the cop guilty or his interaction with scum.
What your calling a case is Bunny has to be scum because I am town and we are in a neighbor together.
No evidence, no in depth analysis, no nothing.

@Knox: It was probably the previous thread that I confirmed our neighbor together (me and pine).

@Kondi: No. The neighbor are just Pine and I.

[Bunnylover]

Don't agree that someone scum.
Won't vote them, unless its deadline.
Point out why I don't agree with the reason people have presented to why they are scum.
Ask for clarification.
Conclusion?
Bunny must be scum with BBM.
Really?

Placation.

The only problem with scum doing that is not everyone believe in the Town v Scum neighbor in this situation, I think only 1 or 2 people agree with it. Therefore all they will gain is killing that person, the situation on the other person won't change.

Placation.

Pine - He's trying to do everything in his power to get me lynched based on meta. Wouldn't be so bad, but his whole case is based on meta which I just can't believe town would risk. But this may just be OMGUS, trying to figure out exactly what it is.

Placation.

This is the problem right here.
You got it so stuck in your head that someone has to be scum in the neighbor that you refuse to consider anything else.
Holding onto site meta is going to get you lynched, and if your town you need to stop.

Placation.

Because everyone following you right and I must be panicing?
You know with those 8 votes............ oh wait 2 votes on me?
Theres no helping you. You've dug your own grave.

Vote: Pine

Finally goes for a vote.

This is the FIRST TIME Bunny has placed a vote on Pine. Bunny has been dancing around the Pine-as-scum issue all of this time, until it comes to 8 votes on Pine and 2 votes on Bunny. This sort of action makes it seem like Bunny is afraid to get into a 1 v 1 with Pine unless support is overwhelmingly in Bunny's favor. Yes, Pine's case stems from idiocy. But it was good pressure at the time, and it resulted in Bunny doing nothing but attempting to dodge Pine's attacks. Notice how Bunny has commented on nothing else, save for how unsure he is about Pine. This is unacceptable. There are no attempts to scumhunt here AT ALL; with 30-something pages of game play, Bunny should have done a lot more than decide one null read.

Pine had 1 vote, McQueen, maybe 2 from someone else. Where did this 8 votes come from?
Yeah I didn't want to go into a 1 v 1. I'm town, don't know his alignment. If I am wrong about his alignment then I know I will be lynched. Then the question of where my suspicion is coming from comes to mind. Do I think Pine is scum because he is tunneling me which is clouding my mind or is Pine scum because the way he is doing it comes from scum.
Dodging Pine attacks? What attacks? He hasn't said nothing new that hasn't already been stated so what am I dodging?
But I'm tried of wasting time on this.

Unvote
Vote:Bunnylover

[Bunnylover]

Pine had 1 vote, McQueen, maybe 2 from someone else. Where did this 8 votes come from?
Yeah I didn't want to go into a 1 v 1. I'm town, don't know his alignment. If I am wrong about his alignment then I know I will be lynched. Then the question of where my suspicion is coming from comes to mind. Do I think Pine is scum because he is tunneling me which is clouding my mind or is Pine scum because the way he is doing it comes from scum.
Dodging Pine attacks? What attacks? He hasn't said nothing new that hasn't already been stated so what am I dodging?
But I'm tried of wasting time on this.

Unvote
Vote:Bunnylover

You're completely right.

Unvote
Vote: Nachomamma8

I'm giving you what you want and you decline it?
I think it was Oversoul who said it, we need to get rid of the neighbor distraction.
Pine has 2 votes, I have 7 now. Lynch me.

[Bunnylover]

@PM: Yes. The first post made by Pine was him calling me Scum.
I would rather be lynch now while we can still afford the mistake.

[Bunnylover]

It makes so little sense, he had to say it twice.

If BL is a Townie, then the logic of scum shooting one of us to cast suspicion on the other still makes sense. BL shouldn't be trying to fatalistically "get it over with" he should be trying to absorb a NK.

This is a pity play on BL's part, and an ATE to the max.

Why do you have doubts now?
Lynch me, scum will probably have to NK you if you are town as I'm fairly sure the town isn't crazy enough to lynch you if you aren't killed.
No play to ATE, just makes the most sense at the moment.
I can't draw the NK while people are willing to vote me, kinda terrible play for scum to kill me when they can lynch me right?

It’s oh so quiet.

Still waiting for reply’s from kondi, twisted, oversoul and andy.

@bunny what are your current reads? Why so quick to throw in the towel?

@mastin hope it goes well for you and you come back refreshed and ready to go

I'm still not liking Pine nor Sly.
Sly a little hard headed with his vote on Nacho which no one seems to agree with him on, but sticks to his guns. A throw away vote for this day.

@Pine:
I'm confused.
You think I'm scum right?
You think the neighbor is always going to be T v S, right?
Then wouldn't it be a good play for two scum to claim neighbor, push the lynch on each other and claim town by the other flip?
And yes I know I'm ignoring the obvious cop who would investigate one, but would have to claim on Day 2 to get one lynch etc etc.

[Bunnylover]

@bunny what are your thoughts on the other players?

Nacho is town.
McQueen is townish.
BBmolla is more town then scum.
PM is above the netural line (leaning town)
Oversoul is right below the netural line (leaning scum)
Pine is further below
Something pings me in my head that Sly is scum.
Chkflip is more scum, but less then Sly. Equal to Pine?
I had believe Mastin was town, but its weaken a little. His reads have been scattered and jumbled up, but I wouldn't vote him anytime soon.

I was town.

[Bunnylover]

I have never wavered in thinking you're scum. No idea how you twisted that into anything different.

Neighbors are not always going to be Town/Scum. But most of the time, they are. Hence my initial suspicions. Then your pre-game behavior, reaction to being suspected, later odd actions, and most recently your "woe is me" massive AtE and self-vote locked me in. If you're NOT scum, you need to go back to Newbie games.

And your proposed "wouldn't scum always claim Neighbor" scenario is moronic. The problem is that when the loser of the double bus flipped, they'd flip as a non-neighbor, bringing their buddy down with them. It's like scum fakeclaiming Masons together - it can be effective, but only if they never get killed. They irrevocably lock themselves together. That's why Andycya deserves chiding, for not thinking through his suggestion. Besides, they could simply double bus the life out of one another to a very similar effect.

Lynch me, scum will probably have to NK you if you are town as I'm fairly sure the town isn't crazy enough to lynch you if you aren't killed.

This quote makes sense, but only if BL is convinced we're Town/Town Neighbors, or if BL flips scum.

I'm still not liking Pine nor Sly.

Whoops! Cognitive dissonance.

Its not ATE and it never was. Please stop saying I'm using that technique.
I agreed that I should be lynched.
My pre-game behavior was that never an equation in you thinking I was scum. You came into the neighbor hell bent that I was scum. I wanted to discovered your alignment based on your gameplay not by meta. Sorry that you think I was trying to mind control you or something x-x.

[Bunnylover]

Wait, BL agreed to her own lynch?

FUCK THAT

I don't like her "I was town" statement after mcqueen and the mod posted showing that she wasn't lynched, but still agreeing to one's own lynch is not scum.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Matt

Im not lynched?
._. I've been assuming Chk flip was my hammered, no one the thread wasn't locked yet.
Tempted to move my vote to SlySly, but I don't want to risk a No Lynch and take my vote off of myself.

[Bunnylover]

Unvote, Vote SlySly

I'll switch it back later on today if its evident I'm the only plausible lynch

[Bunnylover]

What do you mean Sly?

[Bunnylover]

Sly that doesn't make sense.
If Nacho softclaimed Mason with Mastin (I"m assuming this is the case), then shouldn't you be voting Mastin first then Nacho?
From what I'm getting from you, you rolecop Mastin and found out he didn't have a role and was a VT or did you just get no result?
Either way that in no way gets Nacho guilty unless Mastin is guilty as well. Remember they soft claimed (supposely) mason together meaning if one is guilty the other has to be, but that is not the case now is it?

Explain please.

[Bunnylover]

@TS: I'm more then sure I expressed my read on SlySly before any kind of wagon formed on him and was early on his wagon. How was I ridding it?
As for the QT, we did post. Me just saying its possible to talk, and Pine saying that 1 scum were down 2 to go and something else that wasn't important. I think it was that talking probably won't happening.

If we are playing the game of PoE, I would rather go with Chk then BBM. BBM I haven't seen or been convinced that he is scum.

VOte: Chk

[Bunnylover]

Apologies for the absent.
Finals this week and been more focus on studying then internet.

[Bunnylover]

@Nacho now Oversoul has answered your question can you answer mine in #679?
@Mastin are you going to weigh in on the game before your VLA?
@Oversoul I will reread your case and give you my thoughts.
@Everyone where are you at now?

I'm sold on Chkflip been scum, but seeing as he is going to be mod kill if a replacement fails to be found I will be happy to move my vote.
I am not sold on BBMolla been scum.
I would be more inclined to vote Pine over BBMolla unless something smacks me in the face with why BB is scum.

[Bunnylover]

Seems like we are all divided

[Bunnylover]

TwistedSpoon:
What do you think about Andy flipping Miller?

@Mastin:
Agree with the lack of power in town.
With 2 of my scum read flipping town, I'm willing to believe Pine is town.
Explain why we should no lynch?

[Bunnylover]

What was the evidence against Knox for being scum?

[Bunnylover]

Come on Mastin, you know better

You say this like you're above suspicion. Is this correct?

How?

It was fast, it was painless. And yet, not a whole lot of people really cared too deeply about it. Those are not the marks of a good wagon to me.

There was 2 votes on Knox.
Mastin unvoted before you posted that day.
So there was 1 vote on Knox.
You come in for the day and unvote (haven't voted yet) and vote Matt, saying the wagon was too fast.
Where was the speed for this wagon?
What made you really dislike Knox wagon?

[Bunnylover]

Why wouldn't that logic apply to Matt?
Is it because Pine at first didn't want to join?

[Bunnylover]

@Mastin: Do you actually have a case against Matt?
I was reading through your ISO and it seems like you have a bunch of reasoning in Matt play to convince you he's scum, but you failed to post it.
From what I saw through your ISO, this was the best I could find on why I should vote Matt:

I still like it as Knox, 1 of {chkflip, Matt}, and 1 of {Kondi, BBMolla} (based on wagon placement), though it might be better paired off as 1 of {chkflip, BBMolla} and 1 of {Kondi, Matt} (based off of play). I think, anyway.

Right now, my best guess is Knox-Matt-BBMolla, but I dunno.

[Bunnylover]

Blah blah blah blah.
Forgot Mastin gonna be V/LA so he wouldn't be able to answer my question =/.
Matt I think you need to claim.

[Bunnylover]

Without a claim?

[Bunnylover]

Vote: Knox

Rather lynch Knox then PM.
Matt is fighting while Knox hasn't even appeared, I expect both town and scum to fight against there lynch and rather keep the one whose can think then one that is missing.
I'll switch to stop a no lynch.

[Bunnylover]

I apologize for my abstience.
Was not aware the game opened.
Doing a quick read (not like there a lot to read)

[Bunnylover]

What was the reason for eliminating TwistedSpoon as scum?

[Bunnylover]

Vote: BBMolla

Right now I feel like this is the best choice out of the three.

[Bunnylover]

Sorry Pine, I haven't checked the QT in forever, assumed nothing would be happening with it.
I'm pretty sure this is how it went down if both bodyguards died using there effects:
Nacho protect Mastin (100% sure). Only problem is Nacho just had as good of chance of been shot as Mastin did.
Matt protect Mastin/Myself (60%/40%). Edit: After reading Mastin ISO, I'm 90% sure Matt protected Mastin due to Mastin last post.
I don't think Matt would have picked anyone else other myself and Mastin, the only other person I would consider would be Pine but looking at his interaction the past two days I doubt Matt would protect you.

Truthfully with 5 alive ruling out Mastin as somewhat obvious town and Pine and I as Neighbors who should be Masons it leaves Twistedspoon and Knox replacement.
Vote will be placed on Knox replacement so far.

[Bunnylover]

Vote:splitarvle

[Bunnylover]

Great game.
Congrats on winning for your team TS.
Wish I had pushed a lynch on, knew stating you as town due to the paliside hydra was wrong .