Open 392 - Friends & Enemies & Enemies -Corporate Espionage

[Trevor]

Vote: Kassadin

for having an RVS that doesn't make sense.

[Trevor]

Vote: DeityKabuto

for not confirming. I would vote the other guy too but I cant have 2 votes.

You can unvote now.

Last post before Betrayal flakes.

[Trevor]

Lucky, were you scum in the game of question?

[Trevor]

Nothing to say about the game before leaving for 3 days?

[Trevor]

RVS? Response to Lucky/DK?

[Trevor]

Damn, I see why this one is hard. Because even the mafia will be looking for scum during the day trying to find the werewolves and visa versa.

@drmyshotgun, I don't see a slip here. Stating the obvious, more like.

I'm still going to stand by my vote for now, I'm not getting any higher scum reads than the one from Molla. I was going to say I think lucky and kcda are actively scum-hunting, but as I just said I guess that doesn't matter. But I'm also curious to kcdaspot's logic, why he came to these conclusions.

Really? Even though it was in a trolling RVS state? There was no reason to even be that defensive on the first page.

I'm also going to place my own FoS on Kassadin for not only ignoring flavor but ignoring another post telling him he was ignoring flavour. Is it cause you're not reading the thread at all, Kass?

Flavors don't matter at all. I didn't read it until after I posted.

VOTE: Drakling for two odd FOS's.

[Trevor]

Still laughing.

I don't believe that you're still laughing after several horus. :I

Wow, what a useful post that was.

[Trevor]

Actually, cancel DK Town read. He's bored. So he might be anxiously expecting some Night partying.

I am being misread. :[

Anyway, Whiskers is my only townread.

And Lucky, you're vote is still on me, it's way after what you guys call 'RVS'. So I'm definitely going to vote you.

Vote Luckyjt

DK, is that your only basis for a read on Lucky?

I feel like Darkling explained himself adequately.

Vote: rasberrylicious

until he does something, because right now, his posts are scum.

[Trevor]

Actually, cancel DK Town read. He's bored. So he might be anxiously expecting some Night partying.

I am being misread. :[

Anyway, Whiskers is my only townread.

And Lucky, you're vote is still on me, it's way after what you guys call 'RVS'. So I'm definitely going to vote you.

Vote Luckyjt

DK, is that your only basis for a read on Lucky?

I feel like Darkling explained himself adequately.

Vote: rasberrylicious

until he does something, because right now, his posts are scum.

Yes, and why? Do you think that it's town to ignore a vote that's been on you so long?

Lucky has no reason to be voting me.

You said it yourself, it's an RVS vote. There is no way you will lynched until he actually pushes you. Maybe flat out ignoring the RVS isn't the best course, but it's not exactly town cross voting because of it.

[Trevor]

Finally, which of you, (4) Raspberrylicious - BBMolla, Trevor, drmyshotgun, Kassadin, actually thinks raspberrylicious is actually scum?

And why?

Cause he's scum and won't put effort into posting unless we run him up.

Whiskers is probably scum too. Maybe. Still deciding, give me a bit.

Don't tell anybody, but Whiskers and I are scum partners.

Besides the scumclaim, he hasn't done shit and everything he says sounds like subtle trolling.

I don't like the bandwagon on Kcda that much. He sounds more like a trolling/dgaf player more than a scum-motivated player.

Whiskers and Darkling are townreads for their Whiskers' analysis and Darkling's read list.

Sorry, I've been extremely busy. Just my thoughts after catching up.

[Trevor]

Now we have the third option where he is telling the truth, I highly doubt this.

Now wouldn't that be hilarious.

Good hammer. I regret nothing.

[Trevor]

He's had ample time to claim mason.

[Trevor]

No, I don't think so, why?

[Trevor]

No, I don't think so, why?

[Trevor]

Massclaiming is dumb. All the scum will just claim VT and the masons will be picked off very soon.

Town:
drmyshotgun - I liked the claim
Whiskers - Overall towny play
DeityKabuto - His idgaf attitude seems town, similar to his normal playstyle

Idk:
Darkling - still leaning town
Kassadin - Troll attitude, I have no idea

Scum:
havingfitz - hasn't really done anything notable
Kdaspot - Has had some terrible posts and bad reads. Doesn't seem like a purposely bad player
bbmolla - You usually towntell a lot more, your focus on shotgun is odd

VOTE: Kdaspot

[Trevor]

Shotgun is obvious town at this point, Whiskers is leaning town. DK can't be the last wolf because there were two night kills. I'm willing to lynch either BBMolla or fitz.

Still no Crosskills, heaps of dead Townbodies... Half of the remaining is scum. Fuckety fuck fuck.

VOTE: BBMolla
We need to get the final Werewolf today to reduce the casualties.

That would give the mafia a win right there, we can only aim for the mafia.

[Trevor]

lolk.

Ok guys, I've cracked the case.

Trevor is the werewolf.
Shotgun and Whiskers are the goons.
Fitz is town.

I've put a lot of work into this and will be so proud if it turns out right. But I think the evidence very, very clearly supports this conclusion. I don't even care if we ultimately win or not. But whatever. Next post is where I organize my notes into a tripartite case.

You guys have me lined up to lynch for the sake of probability, but I personally don't think this is necessary. But I'll produce my case and then leave you to decide how much confidence to put into it. Okay?

Shotgun's claim from yesterday is a towntell imo, as well as his play involving lynching the WW. These reads are bullshit. How could you possibly be so certain of that? Having Fitz as town is weird, especially since Fitz hasn't been towny at all this game. I'm thinking:

Fitz and Psyche are mafia
Whiskers is the werewolf

[Trevor]

Done.

First, Trevor's scumminess and Trevor's connection with Kcdaspot. These are two separate points that I am making, but they are not mutually exclusive.

[spoiler="Trevor" is a Werewolf Name, P1]Trevor is probably the last werewolf. 

Before his relatively weak towntell in post 54, his early posts consist of not only fluff, but of fluff that reads as disingenuous and manufactured. He asks a set of questions that definitely

matter

and make him look good, but don't count as content. His posts remind me of Staeg, my scumbuddy in Open 396. They are pretty effective as a scumstyle, but are ultimately vacuous and scummy.

After 54, however, he progressively changes a null read into a kcdaspot's-scumbud read.
68, 109 and 112, again, are helpful but not townful. One important highlight of these posts his his bandwagon on the raspberry wagon for weak reasons.

Actually, cancel DK Town read. He's bored. So he might be anxiously expecting some Night partying.

I am being misread. :[

Anyway, Whiskers is my only townread. 

And Lucky, you're vote is still on me, it's way after what you guys call 'RVS'. So I'm definitely going to vote you.

Vote Luckyjt

DK, is that your only basis for a read on Lucky?

I feel like Darkling explained himself adequately.

Vote: rasberrylicious

until he does something, because right now, his posts are scum.

He presumably wagons because "his posts are scum" and there's a need for him to do something. Pathetic, and just like scum to justify taking a cookie from the jar with a short-but-definitely-

present

explanatory blurb.

But more importantly, in all this, he blatantly

ignores Whisker's case on Kcdaspot

and instead chooses to vote raspberry. Let's analyze this closer.

Finally, which of you, (4) Raspberrylicious - BBMolla, Trevor, drmyshotgun, Kassadin, actually thinks raspberrylicious is actually scum?

And why?

Cause he's scum and won't put effort into posting unless we run him up.

Whiskers is probably scum too.  Maybe.  Still deciding, give me a bit.

Don't tell anybody, but Whiskers and I are scum partners.

Besides the scumclaim, he hasn't done shit and everything he says sounds like subtle trolling.

I don't like the bandwagon on Kcda that much. He sounds more like a trolling/dgaf player more than a scum-motivated player.

Whiskers and Darkling are townreads for their Whiskers' analysis and Darkling's read list.

Sorry, I've been extremely busy. Just my thoughts after catching up.

This

, however, is the clincher. Look closely. 
Why is he voting for raspberry?

everything he says sounds like subtle trolling.

Why does he think kcdaspot is town?

He sounds more like a trolling/dgaf player

Think about this. Let X = a single, constant justification for a belief.
Trevor thinks raspberry is SCUM because of X.
Trevor thinks kcdaspot is TOWN because of X.

Does this make sense? No. Because Trevor scumslipped and failed to manufacture this post properly. He is scumbuds with kcdaspot and wanted raspberry lynched because he was NOT kcdaspot.[/spoiler]

Next, I will consider Kcdaspot's activities regarding Trevor. Alone, neither of these are enough to connect Trevor to Kcdaspot, but together we have a strong case that 1) Kcdaspot has been waging a WIFOM campaign regarding Trevor from his first post with the sole intent of distancing from him and 2) that Trevor, instead, has been actively ignoring him and

indirectly (and thus furtively)

working to keep him from being lynched.

Spoiler: Pt2: Trevor is a name for a Werewolf's Best Friend

Trevor is most probably the last werewolf. 

I believe that kcdaspot initiated a strategic WIFOM campaign on Trevor starting on 186 and 188 and culminating on 256-257. Kcdaspot obviously has the gambitting spirit and it makes the most sense for it to be that way. His goal was to activate within us the Ambiguity Effect — our unwillingness to consider options involving pronounced uncertainty. We cannot allow this tactic to be successful — Trevor is clearly the werewolf.

First, I will catalog kcdaspot's WIFOM campaign.

VOTE: trevor

Who the fuck are you and why do you have a normal name?

Fos: Kass

Trevor vote.

I think trevor may be scummy after reading his iso.

He's STILL voting darkling after voting hime for quote "two odd foses"

And now he says darkling is town. And he doesn't unvote. HMMMM

This is so botched up as to be an obviously strategic move to leave connections with Trevor. He is definitely NOT distancing from Trevor here; he is, in fact, "laying a tell". 

Alone, we would only get WIFOMy about this. 
There are two reasons I don't think we have to — 1. Kcdaspot revealed his plans so obviously in his self-hammer post, and 2. Trevor himself is scummy, and

along with that

his own behavior shows obvious connections to Kcdaspot.

At the

very least

I'm thinking the following quote is a way of kcdaspot backtracking on his Trevor connections by WIFOMing them to oblivion. 

VOTE: kcdaspot

PAHAHAHAHAHA

I GO DOWN OUTTING THE MASON GROUP FUCKERS.

HEY OTHER SCUM FUCKS: PROPOSITION.

MY PARTNER GOES AFTER WHISKERSCONFMASON AND YOU GUISE TAKE CARE OF EITHER TREVOR OR MOLLA.

IF YOU HAVE A BETTER READ ON THE MASONY THAN ME GO AHEAD AND KILL WHO EVER IS LAST MASON GUY THEN. DON'T NEED A NAMED TOWNIE DON'T WE?

LATER CLOWNS

Kcdaspot chose BBMolla because he seemed like a plausible townlynch upon whom a reasonable amount of doubt could be placed on. Trevor, however, was the plan from the beginning. Why Trevor? Because Trevor is Kcdaspot's scumbuddy and Kcdaspot knows that townies naturally avoid considerations of WIFOM. I know from my studies of psychology where this natural avoidance comes from — but it's a common aspect of site meta by itself.


I don't expect this case on kcdaspot alone to get you to agree with me about Trevor. It, combined with my case on Trevor, should be the clincher.

Thank you. It's wordy, but every word counts. I'm no mastin.

Here's what I read.

Part 1: Trevor is fluffing and his play reminds me of some other guy in some other game who was scum. He goes for raspberry instead of kdaspot even though raspberry claimed scum. He doesn't mention Kdaspot who happened to be scum.

Part 2: Trevor and Kdaspot were attacking eachother and kdaspot used some wifom. Kdaspot gets bussed and TELLS THE OTHER GROUP TO SHOOT HIS PARTNER OR BBMOLLA. Clearly, after heavily distancing d1, they decide to bus each other. Want to see Trevor's other content or reasoning on why no one else could possibly be a werewolf? Neither did I.

Psyche and Fitz are partners. Whiskers is the werewolf.

[Trevor]

Kdaspot's wifom was obviously an attempt to distance from Trevor.

>wifom
>mfw it worked

[Trevor]

Probably both, although that was just part of the wifom/ensuring that his partner wouldn't die.

[Trevor]

What did he do?

[Trevor]

Didn't understand that last post at all.

[Trevor]

Never even noticed Whiskers' case on Kassadin. Good find.

[Trevor]

Vote: Psyche

, we can't lynch Whiskers today.

[Trevor]

Okay, screw this. I'm lazy and I have an exam tomorrow and the only person with objection to a Whiskers lynch is Whiskers.

Without much analysis of Whiskers' posts, I lay out this argument for her lynch:

BBMolla and I are confirmed town in my eyes.
Trevor is confirmed werewolf.
Fitz's posts today are superb and provide more reason to keep him alive to endgame than to lynch him.

That leaves two people — shotgun and Whiskers.

Unless someone can convincingly explain either why Trevor is probably town or mafia, or why Fitz is probably

not

town, I have no reason already to not believe, by virtue of the other players in this game, that Whiskers and Shotgun are scum.

Since I believe Whiskers is the werewolf, I object to the Whiskers lynch.

[Trevor]

The Psyche-Whiskers lovefest is hurting my head.

BBMolla....please provide some content. As confirmed town it would be nice to read some thoughts from someone I don't have to second guess or look over my shoulder at.

And Trevor lying low is no surprise. I just wonder if laying low at this stage of the game points to one variiety of alignment vs another.

I'm not going to waste my time writing walls and repeating my reads and reasoning. Today isn't even lylo as long as we avoid the wolf.

[Trevor]

btw, there is no chance that the wolf can be lynched today as he should just claim wolf to make the town unvote.

[Trevor]

So are we to pause after putting someone on L-1 and see if he claims Wolf?? Dunno about that.

Actually, BBmolla should come to a conclusion and tell that person they are being lynched to see if they claim wolf.

[Trevor]

Yeah, I guess you would do that, Trevor.

Stop giving snarky responses to every post you make reminding me that you think I'm the wolf, it's really fucking annoying.

Wolf doesn't want any victories either Town or Mafia.
I think s/he will just leave the Town to lose if they try to get him lynched.
He'll get NKed anyways?

If wolf claims, he goes from a guaranteed loss to a chance of at least a draw/tie/survival if the mafia avoids him and he survives to tomorrow with only 1 mafia remaining.

[Trevor]

But what if we're lynching a Mafia and that Mafia claims Wolf?
Should the real Wolf counter-claim then? Lol

Depends on how believable the claim is and whether he thinks he is the alternative lynch.

[Trevor]

Done.

First, Trevor's scumminess and Trevor's connection with Kcdaspot. These are two separate points that I am making, but they are not mutually exclusive.

[spoiler="Trevor" is a Werewolf Name, P1]Trevor is probably the last werewolf. 

Before his relatively weak towntell in post 54, his early posts consist of not only fluff, but of fluff that reads as disingenuous and manufactured. He asks a set of questions that definitely

matter

and make him look good, but don't count as content. His posts remind me of Staeg, my scumbuddy in Open 396. They are pretty effective as a scumstyle, but are ultimately vacuous and scummy.

After 54, however, he progressively changes a null read into a kcdaspot's-scumbud read.
68, 109 and 112, again, are helpful but not townful. One important highlight of these posts his his bandwagon on the raspberry wagon for weak reasons.

Actually, cancel DK Town read. He's bored. So he might be anxiously expecting some Night partying.

I am being misread. :[

Anyway, Whiskers is my only townread. 

And Lucky, you're vote is still on me, it's way after what you guys call 'RVS'. So I'm definitely going to vote you.

Vote Luckyjt

DK, is that your only basis for a read on Lucky?

I feel like Darkling explained himself adequately.

Vote: rasberrylicious

until he does something, because right now, his posts are scum.

He presumably wagons because "his posts are scum" and there's a need for him to do something. Pathetic, and just like scum to justify taking a cookie from the jar with a short-but-definitely-

present

explanatory blurb.

But more importantly, in all this, he blatantly

ignores Whisker's case on Kcdaspot

and instead chooses to vote raspberry. Let's analyze this closer.

Finally, which of you, (4) Raspberrylicious - BBMolla, Trevor, drmyshotgun, Kassadin, actually thinks raspberrylicious is actually scum?

And why?

Cause he's scum and won't put effort into posting unless we run him up.

Whiskers is probably scum too.  Maybe.  Still deciding, give me a bit.

Don't tell anybody, but Whiskers and I are scum partners.

Besides the scumclaim, he hasn't done shit and everything he says sounds like subtle trolling.

I don't like the bandwagon on Kcda that much. He sounds more like a trolling/dgaf player more than a scum-motivated player.

Whiskers and Darkling are townreads for their Whiskers' analysis and Darkling's read list.

Sorry, I've been extremely busy. Just my thoughts after catching up.

This

, however, is the clincher. Look closely. 
Why is he voting for raspberry?

everything he says sounds like subtle trolling.

Why does he think kcdaspot is town?

He sounds more like a trolling/dgaf player

Think about this. Let X = a single, constant justification for a belief.
Trevor thinks raspberry is SCUM because of X.
Trevor thinks kcdaspot is TOWN because of X.

Does this make sense? No. Because Trevor scumslipped and failed to manufacture this post properly. He is scumbuds with kcdaspot and wanted raspberry lynched because he was NOT kcdaspot.[/spoiler]

Next, I will consider Kcdaspot's activities regarding Trevor. Alone, neither of these are enough to connect Trevor to Kcdaspot, but together we have a strong case that 1) Kcdaspot has been waging a WIFOM campaign regarding Trevor from his first post with the sole intent of distancing from him and 2) that Trevor, instead, has been actively ignoring him and

indirectly (and thus furtively)

working to keep him from being lynched.

Spoiler: Pt2: Trevor is a name for a Werewolf's Best Friend

Trevor is most probably the last werewolf. 

I believe that kcdaspot initiated a strategic WIFOM campaign on Trevor starting on 186 and 188 and culminating on 256-257. Kcdaspot obviously has the gambitting spirit and it makes the most sense for it to be that way. His goal was to activate within us the Ambiguity Effect — our unwillingness to consider options involving pronounced uncertainty. We cannot allow this tactic to be successful — Trevor is clearly the werewolf.

First, I will catalog kcdaspot's WIFOM campaign.

VOTE: trevor

Who the fuck are you and why do you have a normal name?

Fos: Kass

Trevor vote.

I think trevor may be scummy after reading his iso.

He's STILL voting darkling after voting hime for quote "two odd foses"

And now he says darkling is town. And he doesn't unvote. HMMMM

This is so botched up as to be an obviously strategic move to leave connections with Trevor. He is definitely NOT distancing from Trevor here; he is, in fact, "laying a tell". 

Alone, we would only get WIFOMy about this. 
There are two reasons I don't think we have to — 1. Kcdaspot revealed his plans so obviously in his self-hammer post, and 2. Trevor himself is scummy, and

along with that

his own behavior shows obvious connections to Kcdaspot.

At the

very least

I'm thinking the following quote is a way of kcdaspot backtracking on his Trevor connections by WIFOMing them to oblivion. 

VOTE: kcdaspot

PAHAHAHAHAHA

I GO DOWN OUTTING THE MASON GROUP FUCKERS.

HEY OTHER SCUM FUCKS: PROPOSITION.

MY PARTNER GOES AFTER WHISKERSCONFMASON AND YOU GUISE TAKE CARE OF EITHER TREVOR OR MOLLA.

IF YOU HAVE A BETTER READ ON THE MASONY THAN ME GO AHEAD AND KILL WHO EVER IS LAST MASON GUY THEN. DON'T NEED A NAMED TOWNIE DON'T WE?

LATER CLOWNS

Kcdaspot chose BBMolla because he seemed like a plausible townlynch upon whom a reasonable amount of doubt could be placed on. Trevor, however, was the plan from the beginning. Why Trevor? Because Trevor is Kcdaspot's scumbuddy and Kcdaspot knows that townies naturally avoid considerations of WIFOM. I know from my studies of psychology where this natural avoidance comes from — but it's a common aspect of site meta by itself.


I don't expect this case on kcdaspot alone to get you to agree with me about Trevor. It, combined with my case on Trevor, should be the clincher.

Thank you. It's wordy, but every word counts. I'm no mastin.

Here's what I read.

Part 1: Trevor is fluffing and his play reminds me of some other guy in some other game who was scum. He goes for raspberry instead of kdaspot even though raspberry claimed scum. He doesn't mention Kdaspot who happened to be scum.

Part 2: Trevor and Kdaspot were attacking eachother and kdaspot used some wifom. Kdaspot gets bussed and TELLS THE OTHER GROUP TO SHOOT HIS PARTNER OR BBMOLLA. Clearly, after heavily distancing d1, they decide to bus each other. Want to see Trevor's other content or reasoning on why no one else could possibly be a werewolf? Neither did I.

Psyche and Fitz are partners. Whiskers is the werewolf.

This is what I wrote in response to Psyche's "case". I'll elaborate more soon.

[Trevor]

No. I just wish things weren't so complicated. This is getting boring.

Trevor, that's not a defense. It's a biased oversimplification.

I would argue you had the biased case. The entire case was based off the precedent that I was scum/werewolf, and you analyzed my play as such.

[Trevor]

That's ridiculous and an unfounded claim. Why would I want to rule you out as a lynch?

I'm talking about the spoilered cases you posted against me. I'm saying that you went through them with the mindset of "He's scum".

Before his relatively weak towntell in post 54, his early posts consist of not only fluff, but of fluff that reads as disingenuous and manufactured. He asks a set of questions that definitely matter and make him look good, but don't count as content. His posts remind me of Staeg, my scumbuddy in Open 396. They are pretty effective as a scumstyle, but are ultimately vacuous and scummy.

Why do people care about post content anyways? Would you come to the conclusion that I am avoiding scumhunting or towntelling d1 or d2? As long as I am contributing to conversation and trying to lynch scum with evidence, I don't give a shit about how long or deep my posts are. I contributed to discussion and lynched someone who I thought had the highest chance of flipping scum on d1. "Fluff" is a stupid term and counting content to scumhunt is dumb.
You say my posts d1 reminded you of another scum, fair enough. Did you go through everyone's games and only find one scumgame that was similar to my posts? I could go through the archive and find 10 towngames that are similar to mine. This fact proves nothing. Don't try to use meta on a player you've never played with, and don't assume everyone has the exact same strategies as scum.

After 54, however, he progressively changes a null read into a kcdaspot's-scumbud read.
68, 109 and 112, again, are helpful but not townful. One important highlight of these posts his his bandwagon on the raspberry wagon for weak reasons.
He presumably wagons because "his posts are scum" and there's a need for him to do something. Pathetic, and just like scum to justify taking a cookie from the jar with a short-but-definitely-present explanatory blurb.

Obviously you did not read the game, or you would have seen where rasberry actually CLAIMED SCUM. You say my vote was a bandwagon, but it was the second vote on it. Learn your (bullshit terms that are supposed to be incriminating such as wagoning, omgus, fluff, and wifom), please.

But more importantly, in all this, he blatantly ignores Whisker's case on Kcdaspot and instead chooses to vote raspberry. Let's analyze this closer.
This, however, is the clincher. Look closely.
Why is he voting for raspberry? everything he says sounds like subtle trolling.
Why does he think kcdaspot is town? He sounds more like a trolling/dgaf player

Think about this. Let X = a single, constant justification for a belief.
Trevor thinks raspberry is SCUM because of X.
Trevor thinks kcdaspot is TOWN because of X.

Does this make sense? No. Because Trevor scumslipped and failed to manufacture this post properly. He is scumbuds with kcdaspot and wanted raspberry lynched because he was NOT kcdaspot.

Poor wording on my part. Subtle trolling, as in, a scum who was trolling us before the inevitable lynch. Kdaspot seemed more of just a troll player who's mindset was to troll this game. rasberry was the better lynch, already said it. I'll lynch raspberry every time over kdaspot in that situation. Your most incriminating evidence on me is that I purposely avoided the Kdaspot lynch d1. Now let's look at d2.

[Trevor]

What the fuck. Whiskers is either town or the werewolf.

[Trevor]

What the fuck. Whiskers is either town or the werewolf.

Huh. Interesting.

Let me soulsearch a bit.

Is this sarcasm

[Trevor]

Psyche, you can hammer now, you and Fitz have a 50-50 shot of hammering the wolf right here and winning.

[Trevor]

omgomgomgomgomg he slipped lololololol I told you lololololol

[Trevor]

That was a joke, BB.

[Trevor]

Psyche, you can hammer now, you and Fitz have a 50-50 shot of hammering the wolf right here and winning.

Psyche obviously didn't hammer. That means Whiskers is NOT Werewolf.
Psyche is partners with Whiskers. That is WHY he didn't hammer her.

Implying the scumteams know the other team. Implying you think I am town.

[Trevor]

Whiskers, if you were wolf, would you claim as such?

[Trevor]

Ok. We are at a stalemate. I am pretty damn certain of my reads, and so is about everyone else. Whiskers is not the werewolf. I'm 100% sure. We will either get a mafia flip or a town flip here, none of which are even bad.

Town flip: WW shoots mafia, mafia targets WW or town. We go to a 3-way with either 1 or 2 scum alive. If it's 1 scum, town can just lynch and win. If there's two scum, everyone nls and town hopes for a crosskill. Unless the mafia purposely avoids trying to kill the WW and kills BB, both scum will target eachother after the d4 nl. Town win.

Mafia flip: Pretty much the same thing, but our odds increase even more.

Both scum should have a pretty good idea about who is on the other team by now.

[Trevor]

Oops

Vote:whiskers

[Trevor]

WW, please don't go full retard here

Possible scenarios assuming WW shoots right

3 way lylo

mafia WW bbmolla - Instant town win
Mafia WW unclear - Not instant, comes down to the mafia's scumhunting ability
mafia unclear bbmolla - 50-50 lylo

[Trevor]

Mafia Werewolf Mason = Town win???


We lynched the Mafia just now Trevor.
But your last post contains only the scenarios when we haven't got Mafia just now and when Werewolf kills Mafia at Night.
Are you Mafia? You know more shit than us? Is that it?

We can end up with Mafia Werewolf Mason 3-way if both scum decide to shoot unclears after the mafia is lynched today. Unlikely, but still a possibility.
If it actually ends up in this situation, the scum will have to crosskill to avoid losing. Crosskilling=town survives.

[Trevor]

Confirming me as unlynchable werewolf? I'll take it.