Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War Mafia (Endgame)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ah I see my fans are ever strong ...

VOTE: Petapan

Policy lynch - it's my policy to lynch scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

but

your

you're not selfvoting?

First I've corrected the grammar for you.

Second clearly nothing gets by you ... I'm voting for you because part of my informed Townie status gives me some info and of the choices I am presented you are by far my favorite option to lynch. Yes, I'm choosing you over Bella (who will flake and get replaced by Glork so that's a huge upgrade) and Chesskid.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Bella

By far the worst reaction to my revelation. Sorry but the information is out there and wagoning me isn’t going to make it go away. Sucks for you!

If not for my information I’d probably be voting Shin for Post 57 and Post 59 back to back.

--

if you're pulling lol epic reaction test shenanigans you're not going to get anything from me

Well you do get that this in itself would be a reaction if I was reaction testing (which I’m not) right?

So if you are saying you are Day aligned you have at worst a 50-50 shot between Chess and Bella. Do you think the odds on Shin flipping scum are greater than that?

--

> bitches about post restriction
> reasonless RVS vote
> wastes another post in the post restriction to switch to a different reasonless RVS vote

??????????

Would you find a reasoned RVS vote more to your tastes?

--

The fact that chesskid isn't an IC is disappointing.

Now seeing the role PM and the indication that they are indeed Lovers (which wasn’t clear IMO previously) I would certainly have changed my vote and picked different partners for Reg. Losing two competent players to a single Nightkill is a bad deal.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm pretty sure I'd have to be unaware that you're an ill-informed moron for that post to qualify as a "revelation".

Well aside from the awkward construction and pointless insults ...

The Wisdom of the Spires flows through my mind. I'm hardly "ill-informed". At least one of you is scum. At this point I think it is you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI why out this page 1, instead of using your brain and slowplaying?

Tl;dr it's a stupid gambit and I don't want the next 20 pages of this thread to be about it so just abort now kthx

Stop making assumptions Chesskid ...

It's not a lulz gambit. I'm 'informed' and as such get a bit of information about the set-up ... in that there is at least one scum in the three of you. Now it's not overwhelmingly powerful (in that 33% chance is only slightly better than 28%) but it is useful.

What exactly would be the point of slow-playing? The information isn't changing. There is no real upside to waiting to see what happens. I die before I reveal it? Town loses that chunk that it got immediately in my role PM. Wait until two of you die and flip Town to say "Ahah ... player X is scum"? That can still happen even if I am dead. The only thing to be gained via slowplaying is "LULZ, I ROCK" cred which I'm really not interested.

Preview Edit -

Bella saying you will flake and that Glork is a huge upgrade over you to the thread (you can't even begin to argue this) isn't an insult but a statement of fact.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I like that the bonus votes are clearly reflected in Hito’s VCs.

--

RC: I find his RVS vote on OAFE without commenting on his miller claim to be somewhat scummy.

This is a good point I didn’t twig to when reading.

@RC

– did you read the thread prior to your RVS vote?

--

I think People today should be voting peta-bella-chess or moi. There should be no other possible lynch's today. in the interest of this I will UNVOTE: .

Dislike this. It’s an accurate representation for me (minus the self-voting part) but I question why you voted for Hindu at Post 51 then …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Last post until the next Refreshing VC …

@Chamber-head of Flash

– as soon as you get a read on Minimum’s posting (specifically CES) please share it with us.

--

@Fate

– since you want interactions …

Why is Nuwen Town for her single post with only a vote for Shin if Shin isn’t scum?

Why is Bella Town?

What about Staeg?

--

Peta, I'm not seeing the strong scum read you are on Shinori. He's super defensive, I'll give you that but I don't think that's a scum-tell in this particular case. I'll relook at it in the morning though but today I'd rather deal inside of MoI/3 names which unfortunately means having to convince Fate he's wrong about MoI.

Reg – don’t bother arguing with Fate over his read on me. He’s too prideful about being able to read me to be influenced by anyone else’s thoughts on the matter. Just make your own thought heard even if he is hogging the vote …

--

MoI, does your role pm with the 'wisdom of the spires' just list the name of those three players in this game, or does it give you name, (flavor name/something else?).

MoI, does your ability specify if the 'scum' inside the 3 has to be a Night player or is it possible for it to be the Commexo rather than Night?

Since these are tangentially related I’m addressing them at once …

My role PM (and here I am paraphrasing very broadly) is as such –

First is a bit of text I assume is from the novels about my character.

Next is paraphrase that gives tells me my role and gives me some flavor.

Next is my Informational Ability that is ‘Wisdom of the Spire’ which has another bit of what I assume is Novel text. It then explains that I know that between Bella / Chesskid / Petapan that at least one of them is not aligned with Day.

Next would be any other abilities I might or might not have followed by my wincon.

So to directly answer Reg – it isn’t certain that my list contains Night aligned. Just that at least one is Day aligned. Furthermore the wording suggests that a single non-Day flip from one of them does not automatically clear the others.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In response to Karen’s Post 99 --

So to directly answer Reg – it isn’t certain that my list contains Night aligned. Just that at least one is

N’T

Day aligned. Furthermore the wording suggests that a single non-Day flip from one of them does not automatically clear the others.

I’ve Bolded the typo that I think should have been clear from the context … but there you have it.

hypothesis: MoI is town gambiting,

OAFE sees this as a way to potentially line up 2-4 mislynches and pounces

I very much like where you are going with the bolded … my intial reaction was just that.

--

@Fate

= you want to be obnoxious (regarding Post 96) be my guest. You wanted interaction and you got questions. I’m not going to bother anymore if this is how you want to play it.

--

And you don't think there would be fakeclaims provided?

And certainly there’s no possible reason for people to seek out that information …

VOTE: Agar

I can roll with this.

--

MoI is always afraid of dying N1, so he'd be pretty stupid to spread misinformation and have town lose the game after his death as a result.

So Mina … how do you possibly extrapolate that line of thought?

ii. Why the over-the-top reaction to Regfan's post? Was it because you got a really strong town read on him?

I have a question about this Mina … what was your motivation in asking this question?

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI, are you saying that you were in fact gambiting, if so, I hate you forever......

Reg - i'm pretty sure MoI retracted his claim, implicitly

Nope. I have not. Claim is valid. Please link to me the posts that you are suggesting indicates I say otherwise.

I don’t know which of you is more scummy here …

A. The player who immediately went “Must lynch in these 4 today” and then looks upset if he’s getting heat for it; or
B. The player who initially suggested it was ‘good info’ and voted Chesskid, more or less immediately switched to Shin and said his read was better than a 50/50 shot, and then is hoping I was fake-claiming.

--

I don't know if that necessarily means we should halt the entire day and choose between the three though.

Where did I ever claim we should do this? Seriously I’m not advocating at all that we should at all be forced to lynch between the three. The information is just that … information. Even if I die it is something every member of Town has free and unfettered access to when seeing flips of the three down the line. I know for me getting it out there and using the subsequent reactions to help me get reads was the most Pro-Town way to approach things. You disagree.

:/

What is the point of this? Seriously. I don’t care if you don’t believe now or not. The fact remains – the information will eventually bear out. Why is having the Commexo (or however you spell it) in the three as opposed to Night a bad thing?

--

Mina, if you know that Hito dislikes millers is there any particular reason your vote isn't on OAFE right now? Also how confident (A percentage will suffice) are you in there being no miller in this game due to that knowledge?

My line of thinking – Hito not wanting to use a Miller in a Mini Theme (which IIRC the last game was) doesn’t necessarily mean he would not use one in a Large Theme.

--

If this isn't a 'the sooner you kill the scums the better for everything' game then it is a weird game indeed.

First explain what this is supposed to mean because all Mafia games ostensibly are this.

--

In the meantime, let me tell you what I see.

Um you voted him at Post 63. Why is Post 86 your reasoning for Shin being scum? What did you see before that?

--

Post 159 is a perfect example of why I can’t wait for Bella to flake and Glork upgrading the slot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You've said you don't have a ton of flavor background on this game. I do. The Abarat series is quite dear to me and I've read through it dozens of times. When you mention "three" and "the wisdom of the spire," some very specific denizens of the 25th hour come to mind, and none of them are in a matrix of 1-1-1 or 2-1 or whatever. We're all well-aware that flavor doesn't dictate wincons, but I get the feeling that the things you're thinking don't mean what you think they do.

Um you are jumping to the incorrect conclusions here. I'm not saying that the three in my role PM are associated with the Spire. I'm saying I am and the 'Wisdom of the Spire' is my ability. I have no idea what flavor my three in one have.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What good does it do to seek out "Hey who would theoretically be scum?" if there's a high chance of mod-provided fakeclaims? Hito isn't a shit-mod, he's not going to put an entire scumteam into position to be lynched because their rolenames were obviously scum. If that were the case, the easiest way to go about this would be mass-name-claiming. This is the problem I've had with his posting thus far - it seems highly pointless to be doing what he's doing rather than paying attention to the game. A vote does not always mean I am 100% set in the ways of him being scum, it never has. Vote is the town's most powerful tool, and if you aren't voting someone for some reason, you're wasting what you have.

Again the fact that there are reasons aside from people claiming IN THREAD for someone to want to know the flavor names most likely to be scum (for example ... Chris Carrion) seems to escape you.

No-one has said that scum don't have fake-claims (because the Mods specifically said they did) or suggested that somehow scum would be lynch via rolename claims alone. That you are resting your whole stance on a premise that no-one has argued or thinks is scummy.

I also appreciate the lesson on voting. I am voting someone I think is scum. So I think I've got a handle on it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

--

What happened to your "1-of-3" deal you abandoned oh so quickly when a wagon sprung up, eh?

Nothing happened to it. The information is out there. I appreciate your rather scummy effort to somehow paint me voting a scummy player outside that group as abandoning it. The information is public and isn’t going away. There are at a minimum 3 other scum outside that group (and realistically it probably is 5). Why again shouldn’t I vote for one of them who is obv?

Do you want to come out and directly say I'm scum? You've skirted the issue enough (saying you think I'm faking and the above sideways swipe).

--

Prepare for a long wait.

You don’t flake as scum?

Or is this prepping us for the length of time it will take for you to do something other than whine petulantly and active lurk?

--

Will there be?

I don’t know .. you tell me … are any of your partners in that group? (yes, this is sarcasm with those with no detector equipped).

You realize this means we

may

be on the same team for once in God only knows how long.

So there is not doubt what team Fate is on. He’s Mod confirmed Day-aligned. The fact that you use the bolded makes we want to vote you immediately. But I’ve been burned by Town RedCoyote using stupid language choices that made him obv-scum before (AGM’s Nuke Game Version 3).

So explain to me why you used May in that sentence.

--

That would be what I was looking at when I thought you were admitting to gambit. if your not is there any reason not to be voting for one of those three today, help me out here I feel like I'm missing something.

I like Karen’s thought process in suggesting your attempt to restrict the votes only within myself and the three is scummy and looking to mine some mislynches. Especially if you are Night and the scum in that group is Commexo.

The odds that more than 1 of those players are scum (and thus Mod handed me effectively two guilties pre-game) is small. Furthermore the information is still valid on Day 2 and beyond. No reason to run through the list simply because it exists. Now if two of those players flip Day then I’m basically locked in to vote the last. But until that point I’m going to scum-hunt as usual. There are other scum out there besides the 1 in 3.

So why don't you give us some paraphrased reasoning why you are a Miller ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Actually I'm just trying to confirm my suspicion that you're just pulling a retarded gambit, like I said when I first read your post.

Then you are wasting time and energy trying to prove your personal ego point valid when it is doomed to fail. It’s not a gambit and frankly the amount of energy you are expending proving ‘points’ that aren’t scum-hunting (your ML point where you completely misread his post and then continued as if he wasn’t making sense when he did) is why my vote is where it is right now.

--

Bella is hella town,

Explain. In your own words, preferably not in some soft, wordy say-nothing way.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Fate

– read the thread. It would do you good. That issue was addressed pages ago. I’m not repeating myself for you and I’ll go back to ignoring you now since I know you are Town. You had a chance to get me listen and carefully weigh your reads and blew it with your crap-ass “MOI IS AN ASSHOLE HASSLING CUTE LITTLE BELLA SHES TOTES TOWN”. Poor decision mate …

--

I thought it was clear I meant you would retract your claim before the end of D1 if you were gambiting town (unless you wanted me to murder you after the game). Otherwise, the truth might die with you, which could potentially screw the town over. Therefore, people should stop wasting their breath debating it.

Ok .. my problem is the ‘leading to a loss’ line of thought. No-one is going to forget that I claimed my Informed status Day1 regardless of my flip. Hell … I don’t see how everyone getting a mass case of amnesia regarding my information the second I die would mean a loss given these players are still in the game and can be scum-hunted normally.

--

I havent' actually read most of the posts in this game yet, but once I do I'll post a list of reads.

Yeah, this isn’t Llama Town.

VOTE: Llamarble

--

Do you disagree it would be beneficial for a scum player to aimlessly seek flavor knowledge in an attempt to "look town"?

Yes. Frankly it’s stupid to suggest he was doing that since no-one has given him a Town reads simply for that and the only reaction the he did get was your “It’s scummy”.

--

Liking Flash,

chess, Staeg, and UT

.

Explain the bolded reads. What specificly do you like about them?

I am having a hard time with your liking UN but later in the post you say you want to see more from him. Those don’t seem to mesh.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, I know I called MoI town for his claim, but this is a horribly lazy excuse to vote someone (omigod, you admitted that you're not caught up with the game! Clearly, you're not Llamarble town, so let me make you the leading wagon, now). What makes me paranoid is that your AGar vote was equally half-assed and opportunistically timed.

Hey Minamum ... you don't get to throw stones about NOT sharing full reasoning behind votes when you keep referring to how your partners wants to keep things on the Down-Low regarding your reads ... Just an FYI

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, I know you might find this annoying but answering the question will make Fate and my interaction a lot easier. I'm fairly certain that your role is knowing that between Bella / Chesskid / Petapan that at least one of them is notaligned with Day and confirmation that I'm right here will clear a lot up.

You are correct … at least one of the three of them is NOT aligned with Day.

I thought my response to KW’s post showing it was a typo should have made that clear. My apologies (to you Reg) if it did not.

--

CES says that Llamarble is an extremely suboptimal D1 lynch, for the record.

Why is that again? I know in White Flag Mafia CES never floated anything of this sort of thought process … we wanted Llama scum dead right form the start.

What makes me paranoid is that your AGar vote was equally half-assed and opportunistically timed.

So exactly what part about AGar focusing completely away from scum-hunting (attacking ML’s flavor question as scummy when he can’t come up with a clear scum motivation for such (IMP) and his obsession with my Information when it should be clear it isn’t something I’m ever going to say “Lulz, Gambit” on) as I’ve explained makes my vote half-assed again?

You quoted one sentence of Llamarble's and said he'd never say that as town. I found your reaction completely overblown given that I don't think falling behind during the first RL days of a game is that uncommon. And the timing and presentation of the AGar vote had a similar feel (although in that case, I thought your attack was more justified): a weak point with little conviction against the whipping boy du jour. From my POV, those votes look either like lazy bussing or opportunism. Hence why they break my brain when I have no clue why you'd fakeclaim.

Again … your lack of seeing me directly comment on Llama doesn’t mean I haven’t had my eye on him since his first post doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. If you want to continue to push the “lack of clarity indicates shitty bussing / opportunism’ by all means go ahead. It’s pointless and stupid but indulge yourself in arguing against half your slot if you want.

Llama’s ISO is filled with posts that I don’t see coming from a Town-Llama perspective. I’ve played with him as Town in Atomic Mafia (he was part of a hydra with Grey and I was Town) and WinVitiational (I was scum). And he was on my Team Mafia team (which you directly know) and I got to see his Team QT posting about his difficulty in replicating his Town playstyle up close and personal. Let’s look at some of what I’m seeing that I find indicates scummy Llama (aside from what I quoted when voting him which was the capper) –

Haha when I try to post more concisely / less vomitflowy it ends up looking like my first whiteflag post.
Ah well you can chew on that wifom. Seems like a good thing to add to early D1.

Why is adding WIFOM a good thing for Town? If he was Day aligned the Night are already going to know he isn’t on their teams so it’s not like it is fooling them. It would only serve to make things harder on his Team (unless he’s Comexxo ).

Scum who knows he can’t replicate his Town game easily (which I know he believes) knows this post is going to look like a scum-Llama post. So he adds this in for the “Oh, scum would never say that …” factor.

His hop on the Shin wagon at Post 69 also strikes me as bad. I’ve seen scum Shin up close. His posting here is 500% more sane than when scum-Shin caught the slightest pressure and flailed. Granted he may have improved dramatically since then but I don’t think Shin posts at the level he has with this playerlist if he is scum.

MoI's claim is weird, but if he makes it a 100% NO REDACTION claim I'll play along to lynch 1/3.
I can buy its existence in the setup from Hito.

Disconnect here … if he can buy the existence of my claim why was it ‘weird’?

Your lone vote on me is already clouding my thinking because instead of scumhunting tonight I'm writing a response to you and whoever that other guy was.

Um whut? He’s worried about a single vote enough that it can ‘cloud his thinking’ and thus throw off his scum-hunting? That’s absurd. I’m leaning on my Winvitational experience with him here … there as Town he laughed off pressure and was laser focused on pointing out scum.

I'll actually read the game fairly soon.

I havent' actually read most of the posts in this game yet, but once I do I'll post a list of reads.

And here we have the topper for me … these say “I’m not paying attention”. Do an ISO of him and look at his posts. The amount of opinions he shares do not look like someone who has missed most of the game. I see these as “Excuse to change whatever position I previously held because LULZ, NOT READING” justifications being primed.

Finally his “Deeper Read” list that he begins at Post 314 is not how Town Llama does things. Town Llama gets his reads and pushed them. What he's doing here is bascially active-lurking. Note so far he hasn't even managed to hit someone he actually suspects with reasons why. Town Llama would have put them right at the front IMO.

So yeah, I’m quite satisfied with my vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If you have this information, then why on earth would you move your vote from that group of three?

Are you even thinking this through? This information doesn't mystically disappear if I die.

If I didn't have ElPresidenteCAPSO screaming about how Townie Bella was I'd be pushing her since her reaction was by far the worst. But he's made that an non-starter wagon so what do you expect me to do? Sit not hunting for other scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The information doesn't mystically disappear, sure, but that doesn't mean that you should ignore it. Setting aside a 33% chance of hitting scum if you lynched randomly to pursue a Llama lynch is a pretty big fuckup.

Nope. You aren’t looking at the big picture.

Lynching in the group randomly leads to a 33% scum flip percentage (assuming only 1 scum there but that’s what seems most likely).

This is a 24 person game. Two of those are confirmed Town. Any Day aligned player knows they are such. That means there are 6 scum in 21 players from any Town player’s POV. That means lynching randomly in the population as a whole gives a 28.5% chance of success.

The difference is 4.5% which isn’t so significant that I should be ignoring players outside the three. And given that my top scum read in the group Bella is ‘off limits’ I don’t see why looking at scum reads in the population as a whole is bad play.

As for Fate standing in your way, I don't remember you backing down from anything ever, so I don't really see how that's a problem for you now...

Why should I be bothering to fight with Mod Confirmed Town over a scum-read he’s calling obv-Town when I can be looking for the rest?

--

I'll be a bigger part of this soon, scout's honor. The recent week has pretty much consisted of "wake up -> job hunt -> prepare stuff for this semester -> relax and play a few games of LoL -> roommates get home & drinking commences -> pass out as the sun rises -> repeat", so there's not really a lot of room in there for me to catch up. I will read up and post my thoughts by Thursday, scout's honor.

At this stage coming on the heels of Team Mafia I’m willing to lynch Reck who makes excuses for not playing the game.

--

chesskid isn't putting much time into the game

when all his site-posting is one liners because he's busy as fuck?

Well then replace out if you are too busy and put someone willing to post and be readable in your slot.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I wonder how long Bella is just going to avoid this thread since?

Now that Regfan is willing to go to bat with me I think this is warranted -

VOTE: Bella

[MagnaofIllusion]

All this discussion about “Why would Town get stronger for lynching correctly?” line of argument used as justification for voting Once is pointless MD Material.

Tit for Tat Mafia ends the discussion. Town gets an advantage for lynching correctly (lynching the Mafia Jailkeeper activates the back-up). Scum gets an advantage for killing correctly (Rolecop comes over the the Mafia side). The “gets better with a lynch” mechanic is alignment neutral unless someone wants to point out examples of hito actually using said mechanic for one side and not the other.

Anyone who voted simply based on the claim and didn’t suspect before has a high chance of being scum if Once is Town.

--

Fuck, I'd rather you lynched me than Bella so at least something can be gained from that.

So are you scum who knows Bella is Day and one of the others is your partner and are playing the White-Knight game or are you scum with Bella hoping to defuse the possibility of a growing wagon? Since my read on her is scum I'm thinking the second.

--

Hm. Millers are hard enough to believe and impossible to prove, but a miller that takes night actions?

I’m willing to vote Shmugen based on this.

Dark Side of the Moon Mafia – recent game with a Miller Vig. It’s certainly not rare for Mods to provide Millers with additional powers. In fact someone mentioned that previous in thread a game with multiple Millers with powers. But if Shmugen was reading you should have seen it also thus nullifying this "Hmmm, doesn't make sense post" from a Town perspective.

--

This is a problem that arises when a player decides it's cool to throw baseless insults at people whenever he mentions their names. It's hard not to react angrily and appear scummy when someone is so dedicated to baiting you into it.

Frankly I find it hard to believe that all it takes to get you to look scummy and act like a petulant 12-year old is to bring up your well documented flaking history. Gut says it is just an convienent excuse for you to not provide content by being all “Grrr Angry at Mean ol MoI”.

Question: Given the list of people you read as town, why not a vote for me? Logically speaking, if you think MoI is town, that would suggest that you believe his claim. Believing that both chesskid and Peta are town would thus indicate that you believe I am scum, and would have a stronger case to make against me, no?

So here Bella is questioning Nacho from the standpoint that my claim is true (and thus I am Town). Yet her vote still is on me.

My vote is in a good place.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Regfan

– I understand you have a Petapan Town read based on his play elsewhere. My question to you is this – reading his posts here on MS I don’t get the “I’m lost, lulz” play as something I would expect from him. Because I’m having a hard time reconciling these elements …

--

The problem here is that I don't have a "well documented flaking history", as you put it. I have a well documented history of lurking, and you have a skewed perspective based on aught but your own ignorance.

That’s interesting. I’ve had you on my personal Mod Blacklist for awhile for repeated game flaking under your Izzy account. You can feel free to call it ignorance if you want but I’m certainly happy to go and dig up all the occurances of said flaking at led me to put you on my blacklist if you want to continue this charade of pretending said history does not exist.

Nowhere in that statement do I make any comment on *my* opinion of your claim. Nacho stated you were town. Nacho must thus believe your claim. If Nacho believes your claim, why isn't he voting based on it? Is this clear enough for you?

I'll move my vote when I'm ready to put it on scum. Otherwise, I like where it is.

First I appreciate you acknowledging you don’t have your vote on scum now and that you are more happy to vote via butt-hurt than looking to fulfill a Town Wincon.

Here’s a question for you – why should Nacho be voting based on my claim if you aren’t? It’s a valid question in that you as hypo-Town have a 50/50 shot of getting non-Day by voting either Chess or Peta. Nacho only has a 33% chance since he doesn’t have your hypo-inside advantage. If the answer is “I’ll vote as such when I am ready” then why can’t Nacho do the same?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also for fuck's sake, get your own personal grudges out of the game. You've struck up personal attacks on players rather than attacking their play - if you're town which I unfortunately think you are, fucking cut the bullshit and actually get back to playing the game. It's not entertaining when you try and be Cyberbob in a game, it's really fucking annoying.

But that’s not the truth and you know it. My suspicions of Bella came 100% from her reaction to my play, her complete lack of actual scum-hunting, and her play not reflecting her beliefs.

I believe she’s using ‘outrage’ as a mask for not scum-hunting. She basically just admitted that she knows she isn’t voting scum but is happy to idle her vote there. Look at her ISO. See how many cases of actual suspicions you can find. In her response about you she even shied away from calling you scum just that you were ‘less Town’ than someone else which is basically fence-sitting. She isn’t looking to lynch scum. She’s looking to survive.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI did you read Abarat Mafia?
Also sorry I forgot to include you in the PRs list.

I scanned it around the time Faraday was uber-trolling after being found out. That was pretty much the extent of it.

I'm not sure exactly what the second sentence is supposed to mean.

[MagnaofIllusion]

How could that possibly be your initial reaction.
If OAFE is scum, and you're telling the truth, he knows there is a scum in the pile and thus isn't lining up MLs.
It sounds like you're reading reactions to a gambit.
Please explain and come clean if you made this up, because it's messing with my evaluation of everything.

How do you not get that as a valid reaction. Aside from Karen miscounting the number of mislynches (should be 2-3 not 2-4) the theory is valid. Scum have the numbers to help manipulate the lynches enough that it is entirely possible for the following circumstance to happen -

Lynch Option 1 - flip Day
Lynch Option 2- flip Day
Lynch MoI - Flip Day
Lynch Option 3 - flip not-Day

That's the effective "Get 3 Mislynch" scenario I immediately saw also. We know that the two Mod confirmed voices certainly don't agree on reads so Night acting unified can certainly skew things. That's basic Mafia play and you know it to be true. It's also conceivable (I don't think likely, but possible) that the Not-Day is Commexo and in that case Night scum have a vested interest in driving the lynch into that group and that group only until a Commexo flips occurs.

What isn't logical about that line of thought?

Furthermore even if I was gambitting how is it possibly "messing with our reads"? I'm 100% serious in this question. You could pretend that I never made my claim and operate as normal. Nothing in the Wisdom that precludes you from doing this. The information will bear out sooner or later. I don't care when necessarily as I've made sure it isn't lost. I'm still quite wary of the fact you are so thrown by this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wuv you too, Fate

VOTE: Staeg

All the points made have merit. This strikes me as further indicative that Staeg isn't Town. I've seen Town Staeg play with Fate before. He's an unabashed lackey and bootlicker. He claims he can't read Fate so just treats him as Town. When Fate questions him he kicks in with AtE about not wanting Fate to lynch him. And this is in games he DOESN'T know Fate's alignment. Here he does. I'd expect alot more buddying out of Staeg-Town to Mod-confirmed Fate Town. Yet he's not ... as if he doesn't want to risk getting called out for it. And the suspicion Fate is throwing his way has been met with nothing. When Fate points this out Staeg drops this little gem. Not what I expect from Town Staeg dealing with known Town Fate.

[MagnaofIllusion]

All these Tierce votes I find confusing. So you start off the Day voting for the person that Staeg scum was happy to hop on without a hint of an actual reason why? Frankly doesn’t make any sense. Tierce will contributed without ‘prodding’ … this isn’t Road to Rome.

Furthermore all the “who did Llama hide behind speculation” regarding Nacho doesn’t make much sense given his last post said this …

Yeah Nacho's latest post pair is pretty solid.
He was on that list partially because he just doesn't post as much as scum and hadn't posted much thus far.

That doesn’t say “Hmmm, I’m hiding behind this guy” at all.

Meanwhile you guys are ignoring the pleading Llama did with me to call off my Informed claim if it was fake, as shown here.

As for what it can mess up, now that I'm pretty sure you weren't lying I'm going to be spending a lot of time studying that group of 3.

It's just much easier to figure out 'there is guaranteed to be one scum in these 3' than 'there are 6 scums in these 18.' If it turns out you're gambiting I'll be upset over all the time you made me spend in a wrong frame of mind. Unless you're scum in which case I'll be like 'Wow MoI played a great D1.'

I’ve bolded the portion that I think is most relevant. Given that Chesskid was his most scummy read of the three and his play is lurk-tastic non-Town Chesskid I think he's a good vote on this basis.

VOTE: Chesskid

Finally on the Send … I don’t know that it is a good plan to send someone unless we have solid information on two different scum via Nightplay. Otherwise we are potentially just forcing a claim from Day.

--

Yes.

Don’t mess around. If you have reasons why I should be voting Minimum (who I have minor scum read on) don’t play patty cake. Out them so we get an accurate lynch.

--

marble dropped green names on 4nxeity, bella, flash, and ludi. i think ludi's probably town, and he seemed to be really confident on flash as town.

VOTE: Flash

So I see you don’t understand how a properly played Hider works …

Llama’s not stupid. He’s not hiding behind a Town read. He’d be hiding with a scum read to either nail them as such or confirm them as Town for later.

--

He could've been hiding behind OAFE.

Yeah, no. This is the sort of explanation for a hider death I expect to see from scum. Llama was pretty clear that he found the claim credible. He didn't hide there.

Yep. You're not allowed to be suspicious of me, Ludi.

Lulz. Nope.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's just the basic Tracker-SK interaction?

Hiding behind a scum read without a breadcrumb is really dumb. I know 'marble found OAFE's claim credible; hiding behind a town read is totally valid here.

OAFE was neither, so that's fine.

Hey look ... Minimum's contradicting himself!

On one hand it's basic SK-Tracker interaction that anyone should understand that the Commexo would shoot Once. Then he 180s and says it makes sense that a Hider would hide behind such an obvious Nightkill target. But wait, OAFE wasn't an obvious Nightkill target.

Nope.jpp. Scummy Cognitive Dissonance ho!

Minimum is scum trying to keep Day from lynching his partner in the three!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah okay I'm definitely not voting for chesskid at this stage.

Why? Shin is a VI. The fact that he didn't replace out when he got heat immediately is actually a Town-tell.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Quilford what do you think of Minimum in light of his string of self-contradicting posts?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um, they're more scum than they originally were when I listed them as scum before?

Was this somewhere not on the last page? I must have missed it then because all I saw you do was call him 'Lord Scumhunter' which is not at all clear to me that you were indicating that he was actual scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

He makes plenty of sense as nightkill in retrospect; I don't think that necessarily means Llamarble would've avoiding hiding behind him and OAFE still wasn't an optimal nightkill the way Quilford said.

He claimed Tracker / Miller well before the flip. Llama even said he thought it was a credible claim. Frankly no way that Llama would be hiding behind a Miller whose claim he thought was believable. You can continue to try to spin that fairy tale but anyone with brains sees it for just that - a farce.

Llama's not going to bother to confirm a role that with the lynch on scum would be a prime target (since he had two claimed uses of Tracker) for the Serial Killer. Which you again have said is pretty obv.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hahahahaha. What a terrifically unsure-how-to-respond-to-partner-implicating-me reaction. "When Staeg flips, I can point to this post to show that he wasn't weakly bussing me all game"... as Staeg's earlier posts show:

So your theory is that Staeg laid out exactly one name in his farewell post (Shin) and it was obvious distancing and just happened to be targeted at one of the weakest players in the game.

And you don’t consider it WIFOM in the least?

This is just really, really bad distancing so that Staeg could get towncred if Shinori's wagon ever went through. Please please lynch it.

Um Post 513 was made after the point where Staeg’s lynch was pretty much assured. I understand your point but there is no way he posted that to get cred if Shin flipped when he was already flipping.

I’m not really sold on this as it stands. Minimum or Chesskid look to be much better lynches FMPOV.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Looking at Staeg’s ISO

–

Could be convinced AGar might be a partner. Post 151 looks like the kind of casual dismissal I’d expect from a partner seeing him getting wagonnned.

Anxiety is more likely to be Town. Staeg isn’t sophisticated enough a player to make Post 156 where he tries to undermine a read based on gut from a partner. It especially makes me feel like the ‘Shin is obv-partner’ isn’t likely as the read that he was trying to discredit was a Town read on Shin Post 153

Oafe, the reason for not voting one of those 3 is that we have a better shot at hitting scum elsewhere (see: shinori).

Yes, I do live in Latvia, not to be confused with Latveria.

Pretty sure RC is town and one/two of anx/chess are scum.

These two quotes say to me that my Chesskid vote is in the right place. He says there is a better chance of catching scum outside the 1in3 but in his next post drops an unsupported ‘chess is tentative scum’ statement that he never follows up on. The only interaction he has with Chess is to say “You are mean” when Chess chimed in on his lynch. Furthermore it’s a tentative read so he can push Town Anxiety first.

Okay no I'm retarded
I'll help you along with that wagon; still think shinori's scum
unvote
Vote: UT

Yeah Tierce is Town. Especially if one of Flash or Minimum flips Night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Day 1 you seemed to care about what I thought of Minimum(CES), why has that changed?

No I wanted to see if there was any actual substance to your "I can read CES" posts. Your response saying "I'll be dead Night 1" is pretty much fluff FMPOV.

So I forget ... did you vote Tierce today?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Scratch the last question ... I see you did not.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Keep in mind that Staeg was informed when you begin to wifom who he was distancing/bussing.

Why is that fact important Shmugen?

--

MoI it also just happened to be the player who Staeg was weakly bussing all day. He said it so blase, so casually, that for someone whose only points against their suspect were gut he was far too 'confident', as it were. It reeks of inside knowledge.

Meh. I don’t get that. Staeg dropped a vote early on the Shin wagon and more or less parked it there while active lurking. I see it as a nice comfy VI place to park his vote that wouldn’t draw attention. And frankly it worked up until Fate more or less called him out.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t doubt enough to ignore what I am seeing …

[MagnaofIllusion]

You know that's not the only reason Shinori's scum right MoI?

I'm not basing my vote on him solely because he had scummy interactions with Staeg, lol

Yeah but frankly I that's all you have really lead with today. I haven't seen anything that says to me anything other than VI newb. I do have some concerns that his power-wagon didn't go through early but that's at best secondary importance to me.

You laughed it off but I was serious in saying that I think Shin-scum would have replaced out due to his early wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Your post lacks an actual Chesskid vote ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Flash

– the answer is obvious – to get a read on your play. What’s your point in asking? BTW – why were your votes so terrible Day 1?

--

@Magna: It means that in addition to 'Staeg was distancing from this person' or 'Staeg was bussing this person' we have 'Staeg knows something about this person' to deal with. I think it's unlikely that they had specific information on roles, as none of the flips look like 'Oh man, we'd better get rid of this' scum mentality, but it is another angle to consider.

Again … what impact does this have on reads? Do you think scum Staeg would have used the information to help shape the kill? How do you think it impacted his (minimal) day-play?

--

An external observer is telling you it's an issue.

Put CES on the phone, love.

Um it was CES. He’s being a putz about it. No way that is a Mina post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

ok yeah I don't have time for this game

Replace kthx

or lynch lololololol

So you didn't have time period but only replaced when things point to you being scum ...

Die!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can read CES better than everyone in this game. Hes killed me n1 the last 2 times he was mafia and I was town. He has claimed that he feels he has a better chance explaining me getting killed than he does of me not catching him. I'm not saying you should completely exonerate him based on the fact that I have yet to die, what I am saying though is that you should be looking at me for my read of him while I'm still alive, and right now I'm telling you suspicion on him should be dropped until I say otherwise.

Your faith is refreshing but you know I’m not going to really drop it just because you say so, right? Minimum’s recent posting is scummy and I’m not going to let it slide.

--

@Anxiety

– why are you voting Quilford. Please explain in your own words not a long series of quotes of other players.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Noone has even mentioned what I would say is my #1 town read so far.

So what? Frankly your top Town-read not being mentioned probably means people don’t find them suspect …

--

Protip: catching scum is not combing through someone's posts to find two sentences that you quote with made-up context, and then screaming, "CONTRADICTION. SCUM! YOU'RE BUSTED."

Yeah, scum-hunting is allowing someone tracked to a kill to create a fake-claim and not lynching him which was key in letting scum win the game…. (am I doing the condescension right Mina?)

Let’s be realistic … it was hardly ‘combing through’ posts … they were made within 13 posts of each other. You seem to be suggesting I did akin to something finding some quote from Day 1 and trying to show how it didn’t align with a Town mindset to a quote from Day 3 (which is still valid scum-hunting BTW) which is rather absurd.

CES was trying to float that it is generally expected that a claimed Tracker with 2 shots of track is a danger to a Serial Killer. And that is correct. The discontinuity comes from him somehow suggesting that Llama (who is not an idiot) would disregard this and hide behind Once anyway. It’s a pretty ridiculous theory to float given what Llama said himself about Once’s claim – he found it credible. So CES is floating a theory that doesn’t make sense.

Trying to use insults and frame my post in a way that suggests my thought process as invalid isn’t very Town-Mina. In fact Mina Is the player who as Town decries insults (IMO) … Clash of Kings again comes to mind on this.

First of all, we actually weren't expecting OAFE to die before his flip on D2. Is there a reason that you decided to omit this relevant quote (which makes it pretty damn obvious Minimum never called OAFE "an obvious nightkill target", just speculated on why he died):

What are you arguing here? That CES’s did have any expectation that Once was a likely Serial Killer target with his claim? Highlighting the word probably in the quote you picked doesn’t change the fact that he again called it ‘Standard SK-Tracker interaction’. It isn’t something that he as Town wouldn’t have expected going into Night if this was the case.

So … is it a general expectation that a Serial Killer would kill a Tracker (as a threat to the Serial Killer) or not? CES can get on the horn and answer with a Yes or No.

Second of all, even if CES really thought OAFE was the obvious NK, maybe Llamarble would have thought differently. OAFE was under a lot of suspicion and still somewhat lynchable. Llamarble might not have realized that the tracker claim made OAFE a riskier hider choice. It's possible he tried to confirm a popular suspect whom he personally read as town. (Personally, I don't think there's enough information to be sure either way, but that's beside the point.)

Well maybe Llama was struck by Death Rays from Mars (had to use this classic Law and Order quote given the absuridity of this). Here’s the facts … Once being under suspicion is hardly relevant since Llama himself believed the claim. See Post 430 as a reminder for you.

Llama’s not dumb enough to have used the Hider role that badly. He would not be hiding behind a play he graces with a ProbTown read BEFORE Day ended.

It's just null speculation over night actions. Whether or not the theory makes sense has no relation to our alignment. It's not like Minimum claimed hider who'd hidden behind OAFE (well, assuming he didn't die), and then said something like, "OAFE was obviously going to be killed by the SK last night."

Nope. It is not all ‘Null’ speculation. CES posited that Llama ‘could have been hiding behind OAFE’ (Post 553 for the record) as his first line of discussion. Not that he hid behind Nacho (which makes more sense from Llama’s ISO than Once, although I personally don’t think it is what happened) but that he specifically hid behind the claimed Miller / Tracker who Llama specifically indicated wasn’t a likely target via ISO.

I see this a clouding the water type speculation as opposed to actually looking for answers and it’s why I find you guys scummy.

Did you actually believe that post when you made it, Magna?

Of course I did. Why would you ask such a pointless question? It’s pointless because the answer is going to be ‘Yes’ regardless of alignment so it’s just filler.

--

To bounce more off of Minimum, not only can anyone do that, but it really doesn't serve any good purpose. There are a million and one better uses for your time than to try and guess at who Llamarble might have hid behind and then try and post up a case from there.

Nope. A flipped Hider from a Non-Derp player means that ISOing him from breadcrumbs is a very useful activity. DGB’s Hider play in Dead Red Redemption (which shamefully got eaten by Tigers) was a perfect example of how an smart Hider plays the role.

Shin's posting is just really bad, I'm not sure what to make of it. Pretty sure he's not Night due to the tail end of D1 from Staeg (scum gain more from a forceful push on their partner than a half-assed one, so so much more.). Could be Commexo, his posting feels all sorts of survivalish. Very reactive to events in the game, not very proactive at all.

[Stuff removed to save space]

VOTE: Shinori

This quite frankly is terrible. You aren’t a newbie … you very well know that specifically hunting for a Serial Killer when 4 Night players remain is correlated with being Night. I’m going to have to decide if you would be so brazen as scum to do so …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nice try. You aren't going to get me to continue a wall-off with you, even by baiting me.

Why? Because firstly, I'm obviously not getting lynched today. Secondly, because you're getting nightkilled long before endgame, so it doesn't make a difference what my read on you is.

But you realize that since all three are dead, it's totally irrelevant whether Llamarble hid behind Nacho or OAFE, right? So it's not muddying anything, just a difference of opinions. Seriously, you should have just accused Minimum of IIoA or something.

CES can answer the question about SKs if he wants, although I don't think it makes a difference.

So to summarize ...

1. You'd don't feel you can actually refute what I'm saying so ... disengage.
2. You know I am Town. That I approve of.
3. You know you will not be Nightkill since you are scum but know I will so are banking on people not caring about my reads. Noted.
4. You want to keep trying to minimize the fact that CES's statements were objectively scummy and hope by dismissing things as a 'difference of opinion' it will go away.

Glad we could come to an agreement that I'm Town and you aren't.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I can feel myself mentally disengaging. Someone please drag me back into this with some questions.

Oh, the Espeonage tell ...

Here's a question Shmug ... who are your partners?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magister Ludi 18
Nuwen 12
4nxi3ty 11
Bella 10
RedCoyote 8
Seraphim 8
sword_of_omens 7
Untrod Tripod / Tierce 5

So if you are on this list of players with less than half the number of posts of the Mod (40 at the time of this post) you probably need to step up your posting. Doubly so if you have 1/4 or less the number of Hito (hint ... that line starts with Bella).

If you are scum please continue as we can lynch you with clear conscious later ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

But you're right, we should wait until the combination of Night+Commexo absolutely ravages our numbers before we actually start to look for Commexo. Figure this: We're going to lose something akin to 2 a night while both factions remain. You guys want to say "Hey, let's look for Night! Fuck Commexo, they can wait!" That's great, but what do you do when you don't hit Night and the two kills demolish our numbers? Then what?

Are you intentionally trying to straw-man? No-one has suggested we absolutely ignore scummy players because they might be Commexo. What people have suggested is that focusing on lynching Commexo (and I’ll get to this later in my response) when enough scummy players exist to put to the screws.

Why ignore something that seems pretty fairly straightforward right now and instead go on a wild goose chase. Tell me, oh wise ones, what leads you all have off of Staeg's flip, since that's the only real reason I can see anyone saying "Oh well we're going to completely ignore Commexo and go for Night." - because you have strong association/interaction based reads off of Staeg's lynch.

Post 615 finds me getting several good Town reads and several scum reads (Chess and yourself) from Staeg’s ISO. Funny that you seem to ignore that post exists.

Commexo isn't going to look for Night, and vice versa - they both help each other in big ways right now. As long as they avoid cross-fire, their relationship over the first few days is going to be fairly mutual in trying to keep each other from being found. At most, Commexo might try and snipe a few Night so he or she doesn't wind up in a situation where town is already done and now Night just has to find the SK.

Your ‘Scum are never going to cross-kill’ stance is rather bad since it assumes full knowledge by both sides of who the other is which is pretty ludicrous. Cross-kills happen all the time when players who are deemed to be Townie are killed and flip scum. It also assumes we have no Protective or preventative roles that can help keep the Day bodycount low.

Remind me again what your case for Shin being Comexxo is? Becauase what you posted in Post 650 doesn’t even come close to being what I would call a compelling push.

[MagnaofIllusion]

...um...

...you...do realize there's a guaranteed serial killer in the game, right?

Insert face-palm pic here ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

My "case" on Shin isn't some wildly amazing case. It's basically gut, if you really boil it down. I read his play and more than any other player, I get pangs of "This is what an SK is going to be doing right now." If you want more than that, you're shit out of luck.

So you are basically railing that everyone isn't jumping on Shin for 'gut'. Noted.

As to you knowing you are Town ... that's ever so helpful ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Tierce what should I make that you've managed to post a "Tierce wall of Obv-Town" with lots of reads and it conspicuously fails to comment on any of the 1 in 3?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Don't ever fucking discredit my reads like that.

Or what? You’ll push to lynch the Mod-Confirmed Town player?

Also why do none of your reads affected by Staeg who as we know is the only confirmed scum?

--

This guy lacks the zwettish vibe that chesskid has.

Look, active lurking useless fluff!

--

But yet I keep hearing "Focus on Night reads."

Well I think it is more accurately stated as “Don’t focus on a rather uncompelling case on someone you don’t think is Night based on them being Commexo” but perhaps I’m wrong …

Well since I know I'm town, I'm not really taking your "analysis" for being worth much, now am I?

So as hypo-Town you are going to ignore the other three reads simply because you are scummy?

And this basically side-steps your original point that reads can be made from Staeg’s ISO when you called them ‘wild goose chases’.

--

It's a catch-up wall. It also conspicuously fails to comment on a lot of other players, nor on Staeg's ISO and how it should affect my reads; I'm doing things by parts and want a general gist of the game so far before doing other stuff.

That’s great and all but it was a catch-up of the first 14 pages. Are you saying there was not a single thing from any of the three worth commenting on in that span?

Please finish your catch-up first before responding …

--

- Is Nuwen really just in the town pile there because you don't see Shinori and Nuwen being partners because that's a terrrrrrrrrible reason to have her as town especially if you're not even voting Shinori right now. Similarly is RC just in the town pile because you think he'd spent more time phrasing his sentences as scum? Also you state that you didn't like Quilfords slots #29 so why isn't that slot in your scum reads?

This. Town-Nuwen is active and pushes for lynches based on her reads. Scum-Nuwen is passive and happy to let things fly by around her.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That is the fucking dumb response and if you don't know my intentions for saying that then you don't deserve an explanation

Yeah, you can eat rope. Pro-Tip - you aren't Glork. Stop pretending to be someone who expects to be treated like him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Question to everyone – how much bussing do you think went on with the Staeg wagon? I ask because taking a look at it I realized none of the Nightkilled Townies were on it.

--

I liked Chesskid more.

Why? He provided nothing of value to scum-hunting?

--

I don't like when people trash my reads like that, it prevents me from doing anything productive with them. I was excited to come into a game with a bunch of people on this playerlist and I think I've improved enough recently to do well and I expect to put a lot of time into the round but if I'm going to be treated like my reads are shit right off the bat then I don't want to.

No-one likes their reads being trashed. Fact remains posting anything like that at either Regfan or Fate is pointless. They are Town. They may be wrong but they are Town.

If you want to explain your Shin read in more detail if you feel strongly about it. I don’t generally find ‘nervousness’ very viable as a scum-tell (given he’s very newbish and in a game filled to the brim with strong personalities). I have an inkling why you might consider the Staeg post scummy but I’d like to see you specifically indicate why.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, if there's bussing on-wagon then it's probably Quilford. I don't think likelihood of bussing or not is really a super relevant tell in this particular case though since the lynch was essentially pushed through by Fate and majority of the votes that followed were sheeping of it. Also I'm not sure I like the Chesskid slot lynch anymore, Matts reaction towards me calling his Shinori!Scum read bad and towards you come across as fairly townish.

The point of my focus is such ... everyone who died was not on the wagon. So if it seems likely that there was minimal bussing then lynching from the pool off-the-wagon is going to be a very likely goldmine for finding Night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Including the "non-gambiting" disclaimer is weird if you were rejecting that possibility out of hand (and your intended meaning would've been clear from the context regardless.) On a related note, MoI's claimed role seems to be closer in spirit to a Knowledgeable Townie than the Informed roles of Abarat 1 since the latter just knew things about the set-up without any reference to specific players.

So it doesn’t make sense for Town-Tierce to have some level of doubt about my claim. Yet you give reasons in this post exactly why you have doubts yourselves.

:/

--

Tierce, what do you think of your activity level in this game so far?

6 posts over 2 days is 3.0 posts per day for Tierce.

25 posts over 14 days (July 10 to July 20 and July 22 to July 24) is 1.75 posts per day for Flash.

How do you feel about YOUR activity in the game so far?

--

It was confirmation bias. Shinori knew staeg was scum and picked a shitty reason to jump to the wagon

Newb scum don't do this when they jump to town wagons, they try to over justify the jump.

I disagree. Making a weak move onto a wagon that you know to be on scum makes no sense. You aren’t going to get any credit for it … in fact you are going to get hammered for possible foreknowledge and bussing as you are doing right here. If anything the hop onto the wagon by Quilford looks like a textbook case of "Hmmm ... let me hunt down things so I can present a case and not look like I'm just sheeping" for credit.

I do see what you are saying on his “I feel like I’m being set-up statement” – it doesn’t make sense from a Town perspective to feel such as the only way people should realistically come after him for Staeg’s statement is if Staeg is Town. But it really doesn’t make sense from a scum perspective either given that line of thought. I'm fairly non-plussed as I think it means he's sort of a VI.

--

Also I'm not sure I like the Chesskid slot lynch anymore, Matts reaction towards me calling his Shinori!Scum read bad and towards you come across as fairly townish.

Then is Bella or Sword your preferred alternate lynch I take it?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um, I have a couple of answers for Reg and MoI that will be forthcoming.

RedCoyote I see your content post did not address anything from Day 1. What happened to these answers?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Axiety

–

Read Post 742 closely. Note the following –

Let's just say I'm getting A Storm of Swords flashbacks in more ways than one.

If there's a quote you'd really like a defense to, point it out. But this exchange isn't productive.

I’ll give you a little history here – Mina is referencing Storm of Swords Mafia in suggesting my behavior is reflective of it. That was a game where I, as scum, attacked a Town-hydra that Mina was a part of. So Mina is saying effectively the following:

“You play is reminding me of how you play as scum. This exchange isn’t productive”

Those are not thoughts that align themselves together. If she thinks I am reflecting scum-MoI in my behavior the exchange continuing should be of interest if she’s Town and scum-hunting. But instead she basically is saying “This is reminding you of that time you attacked Town-me as Scum-you. Drop it”.

Your thoughts?

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: MattP

I want to mull Regfan's position overnight

[MagnaofIllusion]

Really wouldn't be surprised if nearly all of the scum-team is on this lynch.

That would put 3 scum voting MattP. Aside from Sword / Bella who would you tag as next most likely?

--

@ MOI , I did have just a quick question for you though…have you done any reading up on Abarat recently?

Define ‘reading up’. I went to the site listed by Hito in the first post to confirm whether or not my character had a picture and read the blurb there about my character.

Have I read the series? Nope. Have I read the previous game in any detail other than looking at Faraday’s trolling? Nope.

Why is your focus on who is scum based solely on the current top wagons Sword?
Why did you claim your vote on him was an L-2 vote when it put him at L-1?

On my phone....
Unvote
I don't mind keeping the day going...

So you voted to L-1 but don’t mind the Day continuing?

VOTE: Sword

--

Do you have a scumread on Flash?

He’s null-scum to me at the moment. His ISO and comments at trigger my scumdar on a gut level.

What is your read on Flash/Tierce respectively and why?

So you are seriously asking me for reasons? Lulz that’s funny.

Tierce is null-leaning Town simply for Staeg’s eagerness to jump on an Untrod wagon. Tierce is fairly easy to read as scum so with a bit more content this read will most likely change to either Town or scum with no Null involved.

--

She is a Scum Idiot, which is why his jump to the Staeg wagon makes sense. You're being obtuse right now. Her thinking is simple, she knows Staeg is scum, her being on Staegs wagon = towncred to her. If you're going to say she is a VI then treat her as such. Saying she is "going to get hammered for possible foreknowledge and bussing" wouldn't pass her mind because she is an idiot. It makes perfect sense from her line of thought to vote Staeg for any reason at the moment she did.

1. Try not indiscriminately mixing male / female pronouns when referring to the same person in the future. It makes your writing overall look less credible as the only reason for you to not use the Gender listed in Shin’s profile is to attempt to needle via being an ass.
2. You aren’t getting a Shin lynch today. Who else is scum? You should probably really get to ‘tearing Day 1 apart’ as a VT claim isn’t helping convince me to not re-vote you. Reg bought you a temporary reprieve and how long it lasts is dependant on your play.

--

Or not, 'cause I'm pretty sure making a statement on something you've already mentioned as part of a read on a slot doesn't count as "useless fluff". But whatever, it's not like anyone can expect better from you.

Um, no. The original Zwet comment was fluff also. Saying that Chesskid had a “Zwet feel” to him is meaningless as it is a playstyle element that has absolutely no bearing on the slot’s alignment. Zwet was a useless herp-a-derp regardless of alignment. You very much looked like you were reaching for any bullshit reason to not call him scum before which is not Pro-Town.

So you are saying "Well I fluffed earlier but now when I fluff again you can't call it fluff since it was about fluff I had already mentioned".

--

PLUS they were counterwagons yesterday and AGar has made a bunch of scummy votes and posts whereas Shinori has DIRECT CONNECTIONS to FLIPPED SCUM.

Per my read AGar also has direct connections to Staeg. Why are those not relevant?

Please explain in more detail what you mean by “they were counterwagons” yesterday.

(Sidenote: Shinori's first two posts are him claiming newbscum. There is no way this is not a thing. MoI: remember ShadowGirl from IceGuy's mini? Tell me this is not exactly the same behaviour.)

Yes I remember that game. I don’t recall ShadowGirl posting in a manner reminicient of Shin here. I’ll review the game and my thoughts on her posts in the next day or so.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Send: MattP

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am Henry murkitt and am a regular citizen

MattP

- Please confirm whether the regular citizen (or just citizen) appears in your role PM or not ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

For the record I am somewhat troubled by Matt's claim on a couple of levels ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Staeg

This is what I've been looking for. A good wagon on an established player with solid reasoning and tasty wagon analysis after.

Keep in mind that Staeg was informed when you begin to wifom who he was distancing/bussing.

So when you catch up please reconcile these posts for me Shmugen ...

The first indicates that you believed there would be good wagon analysis possibilities from his lynch. The second basically says "Whoa ... remember he was Informed so don't look too closely".

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm here, barely.

We see. What are you doing to correct that?

--

curious as to how you would know who Chris Carrion is if you didn't read up on it? Unless you are saying that 's your character? I looked him up on that site, and all it says is aka Lord of Midnight and grandson of Mater Motley…it also has him listed as "Christopher Carrion" , not Chris... so i'm wondering if in the booksd he is called Chris? If so, that would also lend weight to the idea that you do have flavor knowledge. Then after another search found out that he is the main bad guy of the story. So i questioned as to why you would come up with that if you had no previous flavor knowledge?

So Sword what is the end result of this? Are you suggesting I didn’t see anything else of note while navigating the information page? That I’m lying about not having flavor knowledge?

I was catching up and had limitted time to post…why would I not comment on the current wagons? I also commented on Shinori and a few others…it wasn't "solely" on the top wagons as you put it.

You called two people Town (Shin and Anxiety), fence-sat on Flash and Tierce and then voted MattP for voting Bella after Regfan prompted him of something.

My problem is that you just decided to vote within the top two wagons and conveniently picked the leading one for less than outstanding reasons. I’ve seen Town Sword play and he puts in much more effort than that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I saw its as mina pressuring you to figure out if you were trying the same thing in this game. She has never really voted you or pushed your lynch. I think your jumping the gun about what CES and Mina's actual read is.

Meh I really don't see it that way. She was doing the exact opposite of pressuring ... she said "Just drop it". That isn't trying to further get a read on me IMO.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I will be LA from 4:30pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties

I’d also lynch Tierce today at this point. 20 posts all over site since her “Gaming Night, be back later” prod dodge post.

--

Actually, MoI , yes…I am saying that…considering you stated that all you did was check to see if your character had a pic and read the quick blurb about him…Christopher Carrion isn't near the top of the list...and i don't see how with a quick scan of scrolling down pages, anything would even make him stand out. Looking at the few sentences next to his name, it doesn't even give much info...i had to look elsewhere to find out who he was...and again, you also called him "Chris" , not "Christopher" as he is listed. Makes me think you already know who he is...
So please, clarify for me then….Are you saying then that you DID do a cursory glance at the list and that's how you came to the conclusion that Christopher Carrion would be considered scum? Cause i'm not buying it.

This makes me chuckle.

1. Did you look at the list? Because it is arranged alphabetically so your “did you scan the list” really makes no sense given you don’t know my character.
2. I’d like you to decide for yourself which way you are arguing – am I hiding knowledge of Arabat or do I have little? Because your point about me calling him Chris actually demonstrates the latter.
3. You still aren’t giving any scum motivation for me to fake not having knowledge. Still waiting.
4. Here is the word for word from the List on Christopher Carrion – “aka Lord of Midnight, grandson of Mater Motley, lives on Gorgossium “. Is it your conjecture you couldn’t possibly have determined he’s likely Night scum when he’s the Lord of Midnight?

I’ll reiterate … this looks very much like desperate scum who is trying to find something they can frame as scummy as opposed to honestly scum-hunting.

Vote stays and is in a good place.

--

No. You may be a total asshole, but you're not stupid.

Hey guess what … I don’t care if you think I’m an asshole because I’m not your ‘bud’. I’m here to play Mafia not play “Popular Princess Tea Party with Friends”. Continue to name-call like a middle schooler if you wish.

Describe town meta
Call scum
???
Profit?

And this is why you are a great lynch. Here’s a couple hints for you –

1. Having a ‘Town meta” of being a useless sack of non-scum hunting derp isn’t a good thing..
2. Your direct knowledge of your own meta means you are capable of playing to your Town meta as scum so every single appeal you make that "I play this useless only when Town" means jack-crap.

Regfan made a pretty compelling case so I don’t think I have to re-tread those waters other than this …

If I had the amount of influence over the night kill that would make this even a slightly plausible statement, Nacho isn't the person I'd be killing. Ask Fate what he thinks I would have done with a kill I could control last night.

Bella used a bag of meaningless self-meta WIFOM ...
It wasn't very effective ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

See V/LA. Juggling priorities, pinkie promise I'll read what's left tonight.

Yeah if Tierce ever gets to the point in the vote count where me moving from Sword to her makes her a bigger wagon than Sword I'm doing it.

Doesn't post for almost 48 hours here while posting all over sight.
Pops up within 8 minutes of me mentioning she's a good vote.

Scum motivated active lurking right here ...

Sword is still likely scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Meh Sword's just bad. He couldbe anything, needs to die at some point.

I'm trying to get MEANINGFUL lynches while I"M STILL ALIVE done. Any clownfuck can lynch chesskid, Bella, Peta.

Anyone can lynch LOLSWORDOFOMEZN

But people are going to keep putting off scum like Tierce and AGar and Quilford. Because they are scum that have a CHANCE of winning in endgame situations so are trying extra hard to be all town n shit.

No Sword actually isn't a terrible player. He's new, has no 'site-cred', and needs to work on delivery but he's not terrible. He was actually one of the most accurate Town players in FF6 Mafia (at one point midgame he made a reads post that caught all the remaining scum in his suspects area). It's his lack of effort here that makes him scum. He's coasting by and not scum-hunting the wide variety of players I expect from Sword-Town.

I also agree with you on the 'get the higher priority scum' first theory. Yes. I just said "Fate I agree with you on Mafia theory". Don't have a coronary.

Fuck it,

VOTE: Tierce

That "don't sully my integrity" line tipped me over the top. He's not saying you are cheating. He's saying you aren't engaged with this game like you are others because Tierce hates being Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do you want the receipts of the errands I was running with timestamps, MoI? Or the fact that I commented how exhausted I am to scumchat within ten minutes of getting home?

No, I don't. It's absurd that you even make this sort of appeal (which I have seen from both alignments ... DavidX in particular has several times posted RL excuses like exams to explain why he isn't contributing as scum).

You replaced into this game of your own free will (at least I assume so ... if you were made to do so at gunpoint IDK). That says to me you had an interest in playing. Yet you've gone into "permanent catching up mode" where you can lag behind the thread and use RL and other games as an excuse for why you aren't up to speed. That tells me you don't have the drive you did before getting your Role PM.

Heck, the only time you've tried to drop any sort of content is when Fate or others have pestered you about it.

And I still do not like that you didn't have a single thing to say about any of the 1in3 based on the first 14 pages of the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also willing to drop Nuwen into the meat-grinder for similar reasons to Tierce. She's basically skating by and not contributing unless poked and she's much more dynamic when Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hi MoI, nice to see you too! My reputation precedes me. Why don't you ask my confirmed-town-former-hydra-soul-mate how long it takes for Nuwen to warm up to a 20+ player game.

I've seen scum Nuwen take a long time getting 'warmed up' in a 20+ person game so not sure why asking them is a priority.

Also seen lack of dynamic Nuwen as scum in a Mini as compared to Town Nuwen.

Who are you voting right now again?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why is Chesskid (Mattp) being vanillaized? That guy is town as fuck. I realize this sounds like fabulous play based on his VT claim, but who the hell thinks a 1/3 with conf scum in it will be anything but a goon if scum

Frankly because he claimed VT and there is no risk to sending him. No big upside either but no risk. If he is scum faking the VT claim and has any abilities it's a plus but there isn't really a minus.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So my first course of business in the next day or so … going back to parse Shin’s posts for interactions and looking at his early wagon.

Will also need to think in depth about what his choice of timing for his ability says. He built a significant wagon Day 1 but didn’t need to feel the need to shoot but today with only basically a hint that they should switch the wagon from Tierce to him he drops the bomb.

--

VOTE: Tierce

Fate’s Post 885 I think parses it quite properly. In addition Tierce was a little too sure that it was a fake-claim (which it was).

--

Hey Bella, can you link me to any previous games between you and MoI?

You are going to be waiting forever if you are counting on Bella doing something Pro-Town and productive. I’ll try to dig up those links in the next day or so …

--

This is very true. The only finished example I could find of teirce replacing into a mafia slot had her being very active right from the start. She may be scum anyway, I'm largely undecided/leaning scum, but the inactivity isn't why. Yes, I asked her about her inactivity, but my goal was to give her a chance to clear herself of the issue by explaining that she was over zealous about beating CES for best replacement and thus replaced into 1 too many games.

Why are you clearing Tierce for ‘replace in meta’ when scum meta in general is more important to the issue? Why are you giving her a chance to clear herself for reasons that are completely non-alignment related?

--

I don't think anyone particularly cares about just your reads and the vote is pointless.

Well you’d be wrong then. Giving reads are Pro-Town. Also Anxiety is Day so pointless snarking at him is terrible play.

--

ARE YOU SHITTING ME

WHY EVEN HAVE THE IC IN THIS GAME IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE ALL TROLOLO SCUM DAYVIG

i've totally been coasting this game in the hopes of sheeping the reads of people who are better than me and now i can't do that anymore and i'm Friggin Pissed

the temptation to quickhammer tierce is high but that would be retarded because i haven't been paying close enough attention so give me a minute

This stinks of Faux-Townie contrived outrage.

--

Will also vote AGar, Seraphim or Quilford. Ludi, Hinduragi, 4nxi3ty, MoI, Flash, petapan all town. Waffling about Shmugen.

First alignment mention of 1in3 I can find and Peta is Town.

Again Tierce who is scum in Bella / MattP and why?

Staeg was voting OAFE, that wagon still had a lot of support, and he jumps off town to bus because Flash voted UT? I don't know what you people are reading, but it's not Staeg's ISO.

Lulz. You are scum aren’t you Tierce. Because this is terrible. By the time Staeg jumped to UT Once had already claimed and wasn’t getting lynched. No chance in hell. “Staeg jumped off a Town Once wagon to bus” isn’t reflective of all of actual realities.

--

MoI: Did you ever review ShadowGirl in relation to Shinori? You should look at their RVS posts in particular.

Nope. By the time I got any access this weekend Shin explodified himself. Moot point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: Read what I wrote again, if you still think either of your questions are relevant, my only response is that you are dumb.

Yes, dodging the question and insulting is very Pro-Town

Suffice it to say I'm not sure I believe Tierce's role.

@Tierce

- Please detail the manner in which the other role is confirmed to you. What sort of ability grants you that knowlege?

[MagnaofIllusion]

He is, don't worry about reasons.

I wholeheartedly take back anything I said about throwing insults.

You both are morons if you think this. Nuff said.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Here’s my problems with Tierce’s cliam.

Firstly it was a chain-claim. Yes, yes, I understand that it was implied in this …

I'm Elathuria, the Plant-Woman (Post 691). Numa Child is also part of the game; I have something like "the Council of the Mind includes the two of you". However, I don't know who he is or his alignment.

But I specifically had to prompt her to say specifically what, if any, ability gave her this knowledge. It is only afterwards that she says “Oh, it’s an Informed Ability and it has a name”. Tierce is certainly experienced enough to understand how to properly claim her role under duress. And she doesn’t do it.

Secondly – her Information doesn’t make much sense from a Town perspective. My understanding is that Informed roles exist to give their faction some insight into the set-up in some manner that is a benefit to their side. Tierce’s information does nothing of the sort other than confirm that a certain role is in the game. Which isn’t helpful in that she explicitly states that she doesn’t know whether the role is Day or not. Others have commented that specifically Numa Child makes no sense as Night or Commexo from the source flavor. So far Hito seems to have stuck fairly closely to the flavor in who has flipped Night being logical candidates. Why would a Town Informed Role be told that Numa Child is in the game and not told if they are Day aligned?

Lastly I see the following –

Hai. This is the wrong way to go at things.

Massclaim time for Numa Child. A Y/N suffices.

If you're Numa Child, do this regardless of whether or not your role says I'm protown--because if Numa Child doesn't refuses to claim, we learn it's a scum role.

I don’t like this on a gut level. What I’m guessing is going on is the following –

Night somehow knows (via Staeg’s informed status or some other mechanism) that someone in the game has the role of Numa Child and that it is a powerful Town role. Tierce, with 2 members of her faction already down, is trying a gambit to get the Numa Child to claim without exposuing herself to counterclaim in hopes of both surviving and allowing Night to flush out the powerful role.

Vote stands.

[MagnaofIllusion]

After reading Shin’s ISO I’m fairly certain the 1in3 isn’t MattP. The level of detail and attention he gives to actually making a case on Chesskid goes well beyond the effort he gave when he bussed Staeg. Likewise the only other significant case he made was on AGar which makes me think he’s less likely to be scum with AGar.

--

Why do I feel like we'd be better lynching in the 1-of-3 based on Shinori than lynching Tierce today?

Why do you feel like that? Because with two Night down the power of POE via the 1in3 grows ever stronger. So much so that at this point the expected 2 members of Day in that group actually are protected fairly strongly from Nightkill by either Commexo or Night at this juncture.

--

MattP is likely scum. He called my reads "baseless" without inquiring further about them, and then complained about having a scumread on him due to my wagon. Reads are not zero sum even if you have town points for something else.

Funny because that slot is the slot scum-Shin put heavy effort into painting as scum. I highly doubt that he’s scum at this juncture.

MoI--read Post 886, it explains why it was 12 hours between them. Check my activity on the site if you want. As for Shinori, that claim was clearly meant to scare people away from hammering him. Scum got spooked with little reason, and tried to spook us. I'd know about scum scare tactics. >.>

What does the time-frame have to do with anything other than showing you were keeping up with current thread events to hop onto a bad claim? And a Vengeful / Bomb claim doesn’t discourage lynches in the current site meta – it emboldens them.

No, 'by the time Staeg jumped to UT' OAFE had already claimed AND the claim was being discussed as to its possibility. Staeg went from "this changes nothing" to "wheee let's lynch a random townie" in the span of two posts--you're saying you think he was supporting the lynch of a scumbuddy and letting the tracker power-up that night as a consequence? Come on.

Um no, he didn’t go “let’s lynch a random Townie”. He saw a wagon forming on lurker UT and joined two players (Flash and Minimum) who had already noted that it would likely not get much support. How is that not a prime place to for a distancing vote (other than the fact that it helped accelerate his own wagon)?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MattP

– here is the list of all games Bella (also under her Dizzy original account) have played together …

Danakillsu’s Secret Invasion Mafia – she flaked Day 3

Gorrad’s Favorite Characters Mafia – she replaced in Day 1 and was flaked Day 3.

That’s it. Took me awhile to find given how many games I’ve played.

Now that you have this information – what did you think you were on to?

[MagnaofIllusion]

i've totally been coasting this game in the hopes of sheeping the reads of people who are better than me and now i can't do that anymore and i'm Friggin Pissed

So let’s discuss this Peta. You said you were sheeping the IC. The dead IC who was calling Tierce obv-scum all day long. And basically the second they die you immediately ignore the read you supposedly wanted to put stock in. Despite the fact that you yourself state that Tierce’s claim has no bearing on her alignment.

I’ve looked at your slap fight with Seraphim twice and I can’t say as I get very enthused about either of you looking very good coming out of it …

i don't pay attention to people who don't pay attention to anything i'm actually saying

--

@Bella

– I’m setting this to rest because I’m tired of your whining …

Look at those two games. Note that they were happeniong at the same time. In Secret Invasion, I was active and engaged in the early game - as a town power role, the one that tends to make me the most engaged in games - until early November, at which point my posting tailed off and I replaced out. In Gorrad's Favorite Characters, I replaced in on October 23rd, during a night phase that lasted until November the first, at which point the game resumed and I didn't really post much at all.

During early November a personal matter arose. It affected my ability to play Mafia to the point that I PMed the mods, explained the situation and requested replacement (although, there was a communication issue with Gorrad that lead to a delay in his seeking a replacement, though I forget what the precise issue was). I didn't post anything in the threads because I didn't want to talk about it in public. This is very different to flaking. If you think it is not, you are wrong. Flaking is a neglect of responsibilities, rather than prioritising more important issues. The issue I had was highly personal, and highly sensitive. It makes me rather upset. Fate was aware of this.

So I’m going to summarize the what you are saying here.

1. You had a personal issue that caused you to replace out of games.
2. You didn’t actually take the initiative to post a line from your account in thread saying “Due to personal matters I am requesting replacement” so that everyone else could know this which is a very common practice on MS.
3. You expect me to be a mind reader and ‘know’ all about your personal issues and the private PMs to the Mods. Here's a hint ... despite being real good at this game I'm not psychic.

Since I returned from the hiatus caused by this personal issue, every time MoI has had any contact with me, he has been pushing the "flake" thing. This makes me very, very angry, because he's obnoxious at the best of times and his casual, insulting dismissal of something that was rather traumatic really, really bugs me.

Well it’s hard to me not to think of you as a flake when I HAVE NO FUCKING INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR TRAMATIC PERSONAL LIFE AND SEE NOTHING THAT DIDN’T INDICATE TO ME YOU DIDN’T FLAKE.

You’re acting as if you said “MOD – have to replace out due to cancer striking my family” and I’ve ignored that and just called you a flake since. Which is so far from reality I don’t even …

If you want to act the victim going forward that’s on you. Now that you have actually explained what happened I can re-asses my reasons for thinking you a flake and stop thinking of you as such. But I’m damn well not going to take any fucking attitude from you about how mean I am when your reasoning for such is fucking moronic.

--

Although that is one possible reading of what I said, I mostly just said it cause it was a minimum pun. Did everyone really miss that? A good joke going to waste always makes me sad.

Mafia is SRS INT3RNTZ BZNESSS. Didn’t you get the memo?

--

I wanted Numa Child to claim (or not) so we can have this whole business sorted efficiently. We have a guardian angel and the ICs are dead--if Numa Child claims, we can work out protection with a hidden PR.

The only reason that Numa should claim is if their role PM explicitly says via Information that you are Day aligned. And if that was the case the Numa Child role should have claimed “Plant person is Confirmed Day via my Role PM” immediately Day 1. No reason to risk having that information lost.

So no – there is no reason for Numa Child to claim at all. Not to mention that arranging for protection has all sorts of potential flaws (for example, a Strongman shot makes defending said slot useless).

Minimum hadn't voted, and if I read it correctly, Flash's post was actually a pun--"I expect minimum support" meant they wanted Minimum to vote with them. Staeg jumped opportunistically and you should be seeing this. [Now I see Flash actually mentioned this, so yes, I was correct.]

Being the third vote on UT which earned Staeg the rope is hardly something that I find clearing. Here’s the vote count prior to Staeg moving his vote to your slot

(8) OnceAndForEver: 4nix3ty, RedCoyote, Staeg, The Two In One, Nachomamma8, Shmugen, Flash, petapan(Hinduragi) [L-4]
(4) Llamarble: Strain, AGar, Seraphim, Untrod Tripod (MagnaofIllusion)
(3) AGar: Karen Walker, Shinori, Minumum, (petapan)
(3) Shinori: Nuwen, Magister Ludi, chesskid3
(3) petapan: Strain, Strain, OnceandForEver
(2) chesskid3: Strain, Llamarble
(2) Hinduragi: Strain, Strain
(2) Fate: Strain, Strain
(2) Bella: sword_of_omens, MagnaOfIllusion
(1) MagnaOfIlluision: Bella
(1) Regfan: Strain
(0) Karen Walker: Flash (Flash)

(1) Not Voting: Hinduragi

So Staeg is sitting riding the Once wagon. There are no UT votes at all at this stage. Minimum floats the UT wagon at Post 436, Flash votes at Post 437 and Staeg votes at Post 438

Your premise is that you are clear because Staeg jumped on a wagon floated by two players that are general Towns (as evidenced by lack of any appreciable votes for them all Day 1). Despite the fact that he passed over more viable wagons on Town (Llama), Scum (Shin) and unknown (AGar) to do it. If anything the conclusion to draw is that he was buddying Flash and Minimum. It really says nothing about your alignment at all.

--

The subject of the 1o3 needs to go away now.

We JUST got a new flip AND THE DAY IS STILL GOING. Trying to circle back around to stale information is awful.

Then instead of being all pissy why aren’t you driving home the wagon on Tierce with Obv-Town Nuwen posting instead of giving us the occasion weak post like this?

[MagnaofIllusion]

i already explained i was sheeping his reads due to lack of conviction on my part but now i see something and i'm trying to draw attention to it and most people won't so much as give me the fucking courtesy to say they disagree with me so i'm not really in the mood to be cooperative

slapfight with seraphim? okay, cool, you're not reading my posts although i can't blame you because i don't read most of yours either. if i've been having a slapfight with anyone it's with RC (who i don't even really suspect) but i am actually trying to raise a point against seraphim and being dismissive isn't going to get me on your side

Why do people have to disagree with you on your read? Just because a flash wagon on Seraphim isn't happening doesn't mean people are dismissing your information out of hand. Tierce is a good lynch and derailing it to appease you isn't going to happen. If you thought it was you are fooling yourself.

You aren't a special snowflake Peta. Sorry to crush your dream.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, did you know that "gelastic" can both refer to something that's amusing, or a particularly violent epileptic seizure.

So when you're bringing up Nuwen-you're-not-obv-town thing now that the IC slot isn't around to rub my belly, it sounds like you're having a seizure. I had Shinori pegged while you were playing find-the-butterflies inside of your fetid information.

You should be crossing me off your list and refocusing your priorities. Instead, I see you spending a lot of time arguing with Izzy over nothing, smudging reads that should be solidified in your mind, and playing with the 3. If you think I'm over-accusative of your obsession with those three,

Oh let me address this ..

1. Calling you out for not being particularly helpful is just that. You weren’t. Your reaction here seems a bit overblown given you just generated a ton more content aimed at undermining me as opposed to the entirety of your push on Tierce. You yourself are doing just what you are accusing me of doing ... focusing on things that don't matter and 'shmuging' obv-reads.
2. Thinking your aren’t Night (which I do given your Shin read) doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be prodding you for play I don’t see as at a level I expect from Obv-Town Nuwen.
3. Please point to me what reads I am ‘smuging’ that should be solid (other than yourself, which I wasn’t doing in the first place).

Not enthused about "either" Seraphim or Peta in the exchange, but every word following is addressed to Peta only.

Your point?

[MagnaofIllusion]

GELASTIC

Sigh ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

should we all just pretend I never opened my mouth?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So does anyone else know if MattP is a Fate-copier who thinks posting stupid stuff after a hammer claiming scum is good Town play?

[MagnaofIllusion]

And yet it's still town play, and therefore not worth wasting words on unless the ultimate goal is to later call it not-town play follow the input of some_other_dude. I'll just quote this over here for people to check later.

Insert face-palm pic here ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would've waited until tomorrow to field more reactions but moi fucked that up

The problem with this is you are going to catch more poor Town players than scum in general with this sort of gambit. Any competent scum is going to either ignore or play it cool.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Disagree, hinduragi gave a genuine town response and quilford gave a genuine scum response

Meh. I think you are over-rating the effectiveness of said 'gambit'.

Quil wasn't on the Tierce wagon so I don't see scum-Quilford with scum-Tierce going "Well we know who to lynch tomorrow when this is a bad flip". If Tierce flips Day then I can see that as hoping to get a lynch on you tomorrow. All depends on the flip.

Hindu was Town before so his reaction has little impact on my read. And again ... he's competent so his reaction was easy to fake anyway.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm back from vacation and will be getting caught up on my games and Modding duties over the next 24-36 hours. Expect my catch-up in that time frame.

[MagnaofIllusion]

we've kind of all been waiting all week for you to come back

and say that your 1-in-3 thing isn't a gambit.
again.

I haven't got my full read in (I've just skimmed enough to be bothered by this) but ..

WTF are people? Seriously. Did anyone think I was going to show up and say "What a lark, I was just fucking around"?

I'm most troubled by those who have called my claim

Bullshit

from Day 1 (Flash I'm looking at you) yet not bothered to do any scum-hunting and just said "Whelp, wait for MoI".

There are two scum INDEPENDENT of the 1in3 and chasing those down could easily have taken up the week instead of the "lulz, waiting" game.

I will say looking at my Night 2 read notes Seraphim needs to die in the worst way. In my skim I haven't seen him being mentioned for rope. Any reason why not.

More specifically as I read the thread either tonight or tomorrow ... working on 4 hours sleep currently and have lots to catch up on.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@RedCoyote

– Why did your posts on Post 1142 posit that Jailkeeping me would stop the scum Nightkill when there are 2 Night left?

--

@Peta

– so you have claimed to be confirmed Town via Page 1. Let’s revisit exactly what Page 1 says …

You also know that you have a guardian angel, although you don't know who. There exists in this game exactly one role aligned with Day that may, at least once, choose any target they like and prevent factional abilities from working on them. You do not know the exact details of this ability.

There may be other roles that prevent factional abilities from working by other means.

I’ve bolded the important parts for everyone to read. Now here’s your claim

i'm diamanda, sister of the fantomaya. i'm a town jailkeeper, i can abduct people with my flying cloth, which prevents them from using active/factional abilities and from being targeted by them. (incidentally, i have no idea whether or not my sisters are in the council or not)

Your claim matches the bolded portion of Page 1 moreso than the first part. I also don't think all three Sisters of the Fantmaya are actual Day roles in this game. Nuwen's flip screwed you on that.

--

Also, Matt shouldn't die today. There are much better scum to be caught, like Quilford and SoO.

Are you seriously considering Quil to be Night the three dead scum’s interactions with him?

What are your thoughts on Seraphim?

--

Speaking of which, what's the point of giving MoI a pool of three if one of the players has a role that's mod-confirmed to be in the set-up?

Yes, it’s almost like you should be giving Peta less credit for his claim (which you do acknowledge in your post by crossing off the active part of your request) and actively engaging your brain.

--

Shmugen’s claim looks very much like a reason for him not to be dead via Nightkil AKA BP Commexo scum ….

If I were Commexo, and Commexo were bulletproof, I sure as hell wouldn't have claimed bulletproof.

Actually that’s pretty much WIFOM crap. Commexo you knows he is bulletproof and sees a missing kill (hell, you could get Mod confirmation that you were shot). Commexo you tacks on his “Hey, in addition to the ability that I claimed yesterday for no reason that isn’t a threat to Night at all I’ll claim to be the source of the missing kill for no reason today because Night knows they shot me I wasn’t a likely protection" as a pre-emptive measure to ward off doomed Night going "Whelp ... Shmugen is Commexo" at the last second.

So you are basically claiming the following – An active power and a limited Bulletproof passive?

Did you already name claim? I’m too tired to look back ATM.

--

MoI is lying. I can see cases for both lying town and lying scum, but I'd rather let him get in here and say stuff before I make those thoughts public.

And I call bullshit on this …

Make a case for hypo-scum Magna lying as such when all three flipping Day is a death sentence. I want to see it directly. Put up or shut up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That gets me to the bottom of page 48 ... more tomorrow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I started going through pages 49 to 52 and you know what … I can’t be bothered.

Shmugen’s string of claims has basically come to the following place – he’s more or less an unproveable role that conviently will not die. Once Night is put to bed start the Commexo hunting with him.

The rest is basically regurgitation of already know facts and prod-dodging.

--

no, idiot, there is "exactly one" role that is A) aligned with day and B) can choose any target they like (at least once) and prevent factional abilities from working on them. that's me. that's my role. there's no counter-claim, because scum aren't going to 1v1 me when your claim traps 1 of them. i'm confirmed town.

Then here’s my question Peta … you ‘knew’ your role was said role from Day 1. Why haven’t you bothered to push harder on the other two since you are ‘confirmed Town’? Your play doesn’t match someone not worried in the least about being mislynched in the 1in3.

--

So is your theory that petapan is scum and the real doctor is staying silent? But furthermore, that he's a scum jailkeeper, given that you harp on the fact that there exist OTHER roles that prevent factional abilities (which means you believe his claim?

And fullclaim. Now. Name, flavour, everything.

Well let’s see – perhaps it’s a fake-claim completely and his role is something else entiredly. Perhaps the real ‘Doctor’ (and I am interested at why you use that particular appellation for the role) still has juice left. Sorry … I’m going to continue to prod at Peta’s claim until I am satisfied. You should know that's how I operate by now.

As to claiming – No.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Gamma

– in regards to Post 1128 please settle something for me …

Based on Magister Ludi’s “Awesome things happen” posting late Day 1 I’m assuming that you are not claiming Informed as the source of your “Finnegan Hob is confirmed Day aligned”, correct?

[MagnaofIllusion]

You are lying. Town!MoI has no motivation to maintain the lie at this point. QED You aren't Town!MoI.

Bzzt. Try again.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@AGar

– have you looked at where and how KarenWalker / Quilford end up on wagons in comparison to the flipped scum in your read on that slot as Night?

--

Because my setup speculation ability has been called into question, I'm still positive something else was going on with OAFEs role.

Well since you are talking about flexing those skills let me ask you this –

How strong a conglomerate of protective / defensive roles for Town do you expect in the set-up as revealed so far?

Because we basically have the following flipped / claimed …

Hider
Some form of Limited Jailkeeper
Shmugen’s “I can make myself BP each Night”

On top of this it has to be expected Commexxo SK is probably Bulletproof as well. How many defensive roles work as a counterbalance for a Night team with a Roleblocking Dragon and Sacrificial Dayvig?

--

VOTE: RedCoyote

I hate having my vote idle and outside the 1in3 I think both himself and Seraphim are perhaps the strongest candidates for scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

you could have had it all but you had to go and scumclaim

Yup, you are a moron.

[MagnaofIllusion]

"my role says i could have a guaranteed scum lynch today, but i will not try to make that happen, because i hate it, i hate winning as town" - a thing a person who is town would not say

Yeah there were some questions I asked you about your claim. You haven't answered them. I'm not locking into a Tammy / Bella lynch until I get some answers. And given how dead wrong you were about Tierce I'm not letting that go. Very little reason I shouldn't represent my other suspicions outside the 1in3 with a vote while I weigh out possibilities. That's how you scum-hunt Peta.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then here’s my question Peta … you ‘knew’ your role was said role from Day 1. Why haven’t you bothered to push harder on the other two since you are ‘confirmed Town’? Your play doesn’t match someone not worried in the least about being mislynched in the 1in3.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Are you dense? Like, seriously... ARE YOU DENSE?

Actually no … I’m actively losing weight so if anything I might be becoming less dense ..

In all seriousness – if you have something to actually claim do so instead of playing the coy game. Day is in a damn good spot right now and we don’t need pussy-footing if you have Night results that make this a no-brainer. If you don’t link me to the case you made explaining things. If you don’t have that either man up and make one or stop yelling.

--

I don't see why Town MoI would allow the issue of the 1 in 3 to fester by refusing to fully claim. It's something that's been hanging over the game since he claimed it early on day one.

I’ve fully claimed

EVERY FUCKING ELEMENT

of the 1in3 already. It happened on Day 1. Stop pretending your vote isn’t anything more than butthurt.

--

Not following your point on what I guess is you implying hypocrisy on my pert. Sera not being able to give an answer or two for why he's voting me and saying hopefully tomorrow is a bit different than me saying I will give more reads tomorrow. It was 5am my time and going through Isos and looking at interactns takes time.

Um Tammy how do you know that Seraphim was not burdened by similar time constraints? Without that knowledge I see little difference in your replies. Your “it implies he has no reasons” in Post 1338 is faulty logic.

The only thing you keep mentioning though is the two of us. That doesn't indicate you have other suspects; it indicates you have exactly two.

No, it doesn’t. Selecting two people to possibly die via mechanic hardly says “I only have two suspects”.

--

Magna: when looking at game balance, don't forget how super gross Befouler is.

I’m not looking at game-balance as a whole. I’m looking specifically at the Sacrificial Dayvig for Night. That is a role that exists, IMO, to circumvent Night protections so that scum can kill off a dangerous player / role.

The IC certainly qualifies as such. I’m asking Flash to use his claimed Set-up spec skills in assessing what level of Town ‘protection’ ability is warranted by giving scum that suiciding Dayvig.

--

MOI , would you be willing to hammer Bella?

Currently? No. Peta is being a crybaby diva and despite everyone going “Oh, it’s a no-brainer” like good little sheep there are some strong inconsistencies in Peta’s early play I want put to rest in my brain. My review of dead Night players is split on whether Matt or Bella is more likely scum. Although Tammy’s posting as of late has me leaning towards her slot.

--

Did you miss the bit where I said having to explain his entire motivation is a trap? He has more info than we have. Speaking purely in terms of speculation as an example, he could gain some effect from hammering 1/2 players on the list. Normally it would be awkward to force a wagon on someone without being an early vote, but his 1/3 claim makes it less awkward, it also helps explain why he hasn't been pushing them more heavily.

Yawn. This is just a dodge. You can’t explain any scum-motivation. Your “he gets benefits from hammering” makes no sense given multiples of them flipping Town means I’m lynched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

i feel like i'm taking crazy pills

Well given you thought Tierce was Day that isn't out of the question ...

Still waiting on your explanation as to how your early play supports your claim ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why RedCoyote looks like Night

…

1.

Voting and interaction pattern re: Shin

He hops on the early Shin wagon at Post 139. The reason he gives is the ‘Shin defended Seraphim’ explanation that was floated. This puts him fourth on the wagon.

His next Post 188 shows him responding to Shin saying that Shin’s reaction to pressure was scummy.

Yet in the following Post 268 RC jumps off the wagon to attack Once for a ‘claim he can’t trust’ and that

There's something about putting yourself up to be lynched the way he did in Post 80 that just doesn't sit right with me. I can't emphasize enough how much I think it's possibly the worst single post of the entire thread so far

If that was the case (80 being the worst post of the game) why didn’t he comment on it at all until well after the fact? He chose to comment on Post 70 back at 139. This looks to me like very much overjustification to get off his partner. He says nothing about Shin’s play looking better. In context this is near the height of the Shin early wagon (Shin was at 7 votes) when RedCoyote jumps off.

After this he never returns to any significant pressure or questioning of Shin until after Shin self-destructs on Fate / Reg. Reads to me as a partner wanting to put down a vote early on a weak partner, seeing the wagon significantly grow, and getting off before it gets out of hand and Shin is forced to self-destruct Day 1 leaving plenty of links.

2.

Possible slip at Post 188.

This got shunted to the side earlier as “RC always plays this way” a little too easily for my tastes. None of the flipped scum (via ISO review) even comment on it CHECK. For those who have forgotten what I’m talking about RC said this to Fate on Day 1 –

You realize this means we may be on the same team for once in God only knows how long.

Again taken as a singular event it’s far from damning but the ease at which it was brushed aside and never addressed again has the feel of something scum want left alone.

3

. Treatment of Staeg wagon

I may have been premature to judge 4nx. He seems to have got Staeg over a barrel with regard to flipping his vote to UT.

You know, Staeg never even mentioned UT prior to that vote switch. I don't follow that reasoning. Let's not make this more complicated than it is... either something changed his mind about his OAFE vote, or something changed his mind about UT that suddenly shot him to number one.

In either case, it's an abrupt switch that triggered Fate/Reg to gauge his fortitude. He seems cool enough though, Fate. I don't like his vote switch, but is there something that's sticking out to you two with regard to his extended reaction?

This reaction doesn’t read as Day to me. First he agrees that his earlier Anxiety read may be wrong because “Anxiety has Staeg over a barrel regarding switching to UT”. Then he immediately offers Staeg a way out “maybe something changed his mind”, advocates to Fate that Staeg isn’t likely scum for his reaction and subsequently votes Petapan. Basically he’s fence-sitting (I understand why you suspect him but he’s not Night).

4.

Treatment of Tierce wagon

Red hops on at Post 891. He does a quick hop off and on (Post 910 and Post 914. What sticks out at me is how he’s laying the groundwork for people to be linked to Tierce before her flip. Much like my assessment of Tierce’s reaction to Shin’s bomb tactic he’s already looking to pin those not supporting the wagon as scum.

Matt, what's the hold up?

– Questioning why Matt isn’t voting Tierce.

peta's not-so-subtle calls to slow down this wagon stick out like a sore thumb.

– pretty obvious the angle here.

Post 1010 is directly devoted to showing peta as faking his reactions to the Tierce wagon.

He then follows through today with an opening vote on Peta.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lol, we're still talking about the slip! Oh, dear. MoI, you can't read me at all, bud.

Yes, please feel free to pretend the 'slip' is the only thing in that case and ignore all the relational material presented ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Quick questions AGar -

1. Your knowledge of Mrs. Scattamun is a Passive not Informational?
2. Who did you submit Night 1?
3. Please elaborate as much as you can - are you saying you submit two names and she recieves them from the Mod and can choose? Or does she also send in two names?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So with AGar's claim does anyone calling me [insert perjorative here] about questioning Peta not being Mod-Confirmed Day want to re-assess their position?

Also - AGar probably should be offering his claimed Mod-Confirmed partner the two names he is going to choose each Night before lynch (unless disallowed via Mod directive) so that their roles can be more effectively used.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I wish for Mrs. Scattamun to remain unclaimed for the time being, I don't see the need to bring that out of the woodwork yet.

Agreed.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna won't fullclaim

Why exactly should I claim any more than I already have Shmugen? I'd like a detailed answer. What about my character name and any other abilities I might or might not have would make you believe more or disbelieve the 1in3 Informed information that I full-claimed on Day 1?

[MagnaofIllusion]

It has no bearing on the 1in3. It does have bearing on the arguments regarding protective power in the town and the slew of game setup speculation.

Other than possibly fishing to see if I had a protective role how does that help anything? Concrete points Shmugen!

[MagnaofIllusion]

WAIT A MINUTE.

I'm at work right now, so can't comment. But don't lynch yet. 1) I stopped being really suspicious of Tammy a few days ago, actually (I much prefer a Quilford lynch) 2) I have a STRONG gut scum read on MoI based on his play, the way he seems to be trying his hardest to prevent both the Tammy/Bella hammer plan and petapan from being cleared (and peta's still confirmed,

because the guaranteed role is supposed to protect a target FROM active/factional abilities

), and his refusal to nameclaim, and 3) if AGar blocked Llamarble, that means he didn't hide behind anyone! Why were there three deaths on N1?

P-edit: MoI, there is no reason whatsoever for you not to claim your CHARACTER. None. Zero. If you were someone like Finnegan Hob, you'd have been happy to claim so that we'd stop wasting our breath doubting you.

Let’s address these points –

1. Being partial to a Quilford over a Tammy lynch when the other should be hammering is a pretty pointless thing to say.

2. Um, not the bolded is FLAT OUT WRONG and you throwing a shit-fit because of it makes me wonder if I should be re-considering my Town Minimum read. Let’s review for those with reading comprehension issues.

You also know that you have a guardian angel, although you don't know who. There exists in this game exactly one role aligned with Day that may, at least once, choose any target they like and

prevent factional abilities from working on them

. You do not know the exact details of this ability. There may be other roles that prevent factional abilities from working by other means.

I’ve taken the liberty of bolding the part you are screwing up.

Firstly it doesn’t say “Active / Factional” abilities. It only says Factional. That’s a pretty huge distinction and your glossing over it to white-knight on Peta is pretty bad.

Secondly do you think AGar is lying? Because his role claim is effectively a duplicate of Peta’s (both limited Jailkeeper roles). If you think he’s lying why are you voting me? If you don’t think he’s lying then it’s entirely possible Peta is lying or NEITHER ONE is the Mod confirmed role. In fact Peta’s pure insistence that he is Mod confirmed is part of the reason I’m skeptical. Honestly your vote either way is terrible and not very Day aligned in motive ... you should either be voting AGar (who you think is scum counter-claiming Mod Confirmed Peta) or Quilford (who you say you want to lynch and is one of the players AGar might have blocked).

3. Well the only way to answer this is to get ANOTHER claim from AGar’s claimed partner. Once you answer above whether you think AGar is lying I’ll address that implication.

As to claiming – you’ve been harping for me to FULL CLAIM, not name claim. So suddenly your “why aren’t you Character claiming” rings as Goal Post moving. And if you were actually paying attention you would already know who my character is. I’ve left enough allusions in thread since Day 1 that it’s not difficult to figure out.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@AGar

- have you asked hito what would happen if you matched both names?

[MagnaofIllusion]

What exactly is the thought behind keeping Agars counterpart hidden?

Well hmmmm ... WTF is this?

AGar dying as Town while keeping his partner from claiming means that just like Finnegon Hob (if Gamma ever flips Day) when AGar flips Day his partner is Mod Confirmed Day at mass-claim time and yet another PoE bomb for Night / Commexo.

What's the benefit to his partner claiming?

[MagnaofIllusion]

His partner claiming tells us which of the 2 was blocked if either, and we don't have time to dick around with everyone checking in to make sure that at least one of them was even blocked.

Not worth it today unless you either

A. Think AGar is lying (I don't I think he's Day due to relational tells)
B. You having a strong Town read on both Tammy / Quilford (I don't other than thinking Quil isn't Night)

If you want to pony up to either of those being the basis of your disagreement?

[MagnaofIllusion]

C (and some amount of B)

Whelp no more trying to be reasonable with you today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well upon re-read I see that AGar is a Roleblocker claim not Jailkeep claim. Scatch my earlier stupid posting.

I'm going to officially Name claim since I'm tired of hearing about it. If you haven't guessed you either aren't paying attention or really don't care ...

Mespa, Sister of the Fantomaya

Think that should be pretty clear from the following posts –

Next is my Informational Ability that is ‘Wisdom of the Spire’ which has another bit of what I assume is Novel text. It then explains that I know that between Bella / Chesskid / Petapan that at least one of them is not aligned with Day.

The Sisters all reside at the 25th Hour and take prophecy from the Spire.

Um you are jumping to the incorrect conclusions here. I'm not saying that the three in my role PM are associated with the Spire. I'm saying I am and the 'Wisdom of the Spire' is my ability. I have no idea what flavor my three in one have.

Here I clarify to Nuwen (who would have found me saying the Sisterhood has 1 scum within it odd since I didn’t list her and she was one of them) that I am a part of the Sisterhood.

I also don't think all three Sisters of the Fantmaya are actual Day roles in this game. Nuwen's flip screwed you on that.

This is from today and part of the reason I’m casting askance on Peta’s claim. It’s too some degree ‘outguess the Mod’ but I doubt that hito would have allowed Town to confirm three Day roles via Name-Claim.

With that I’m not reading the thread again until tomorrow morning …

[MagnaofIllusion]

@RedCoyote

– seriously nothing to say about my case other than “Lulz, you can’t read me”?

@Shmugen

– I name claimed. Now I’d really like you to go into why it was so important and what it says to you.

--

Or, y'know, unfamiliar with the flavor of the game.

Flavor isn’t some secret. You can easily have looked up ‘The Spire’ in multiple places and drawn the conclusion.

Who are scum beyond me Bella? You seem to be happy to coast and if you are somehow Day you are doing it wrong …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Up until this post, Magna,

I had not presumed you to have any further utility in your PM.

Your information seemed powerful enough, especially with there still being no counterclaim to Peta. My general point is as it ever was: it seemed as though a lot of people were keeping secrets and hiding information, partially due to other people keeping secrets and hiding information. I think we may be far enough ahead that such shenanigans are hurting us more than they help.

Why would you assume the bolded? I really don't see that you personally would do so given what you have claimed. You have claimed an incredibly powerful ability (making self Unkillable except for by cooridination of both Commexo and Night kills). Yet you have a secondary claimed redirection ability as well. Frankly given the advantage Day has right now I don't see the upside at all to claiming whether I do or don't have any further potential in my role outside the 1in3 and your "keeping secrets' stance really doesn't make much sense.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Quilford

Actually now it will.
Tammy should vote Quil now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE:

I'm assembling a Vote Count in my next post. I'll hammer Quilford at this point since waiting for Tammy may not yield dividends.

Please no more votes until we get a handle on where we are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Unofficial Vote Count

(5) Tammy: 4nxi3ty, Seraphim, RedCoyote, petapan, AGar
(1) MagnaOfIllusion: Flash,
(5) Quilford: sword_of_omens, , Tammy, Hinduragi, Bella, Gammagooey
(1) AGar: Quilford
(1) Bella: Minimum

(2) Not Voting: Shmugen, MagnaOfIllusion

If my vote count is right this is where we stand right now. Someone should probably double check it before we proceed.

If I am correct Quil needs 3 more votes to lynch. I will hammer so we will need 2 more votes on him before I vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

...someone should probably unvote.

Why? Quilford basically claimed scum. Your personal "We must lynch in either Bella or MoI as there is scum there" feelings really don't trump that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Quilford

– I’m going to hammer you sooner or later today. You have anything you want to say you probably should do so sooner rather than later

--

Magna, thoughts on Peta's whole 'don't make me target me' thing?

I think it is more likely to come from Town as from scum. Your claimed ability doesn’t affect Factionals so if he was scum fake-claiming he would not be worried about sending in the Kill with you on him. The only way scum-Peta would be worried is if he had a powerful Active ability that you would prevent him from using.

Meanwhile Town Peta can use his claimed JK ability in conjuction with AGar’s claimed Roleblock to really narrow down the potential killer pool. You fucking around with that isn’t Pro-Town.

I don’t think you should be targeting either Peta or AGar personally. Heck if Quilford flips Commexxo you should be self-protecting every Night as your ability doesn’t jive as Night and makes you more or less invincible.

--

By the way, tonight will be Seraphim and RedCoyote as my submissions.

I approve of these submissions and think your partner should submit the same names.

--

(Also...MoI, if you're planning on counterclaiming petapan as the guardian, you're getting auto-lynched unless you do it today.)

Stop making pointless comments like this. I would have counter-claimed him immediately when I returned from V/LA if I was going to. My unwillingness to immediately roll over and call him auto-mod confirmed stems from dayplay issues, interpretations of Mod wording, and the fact that he would make all three Sisters Town.

Is it wrong that I still kind of want to lynch Bella (or possibly another suspect) as long as Quilford agrees to hammer, instead?

Yes given Quilford has clearly demonstrated he’s not hammering anyone today.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Are you going to hammer? Because he could just be derping hard, trying to intentionally lose, and you'd be half-throwing the game. I mean, the chances are miniscule, but just to be safe.... >_>

I think you are over-stating the danger here.

1. Quilford isn’t a VI. If he was Day he wouldn’t be actively trolling the thread like he has (asking if he should hammer, not doing it despite being told, and making “I role-copped the Serial Killer’ comments). I could see him as Day claiming his role and begging for his life in a Pro-Town manner. He isn’t doing that. He’s scum who knows he is dead and is being cheeky to the gallows.
2. It is hardly ‘half-throwing the game’. At this point if by some miracle Quilford isn’t scum and I die with him it will put to rest the all the “MoI is scum” talk. Frankly at this stage with the advantage Day has it’s not a crippling move.
3. If Tammy wants to swoop in from V/LA and hammer him she can certainly do so. I have no objections to that. I just don’t want the Day going on longer than it needs to since Quilford is clearly scum of some flavor (I’m guessing Commexo).

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Quilford

I'm not having some last second half-assed shift end up screwing things up because we aren't 'using' the Mod Mechanic correctly when Day has a huge lead, Quilford has claimed scum, and Tammy is V/LA so will not be around to meaningfully discuss the issues.

If I am wrong I'm dead and if Quilford is correct you can always lynch me tomorrow to appease your butthurt about the hammer.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And if we'd let the day go on longer, then maybe we'd have got some nice juicy information from whom was willing to hammer whom. It could have netted us ANOTHER confirmed scum.

Deadline is in approximately 2 days. It’s not like we had a week to sort out this ‘juicy information’ and the odds it netted another scum are minimal since it would require YET another monumental shift of wagons in a short time frame. Meanwhile you could have pushed Bella to hammer Tammy anyway (since she was voting me) when it was decided that Tammy would be lynched if it was that important to you.

We could have at least tried to call Bella's bluff and see if she'd have really hammered Tammy.

MoI, why were you so eager to volunteer to hammer confirmed scum?

The only way to call her bluff is to have her actually hammer. Quilford is scum. That much is clear. And likely Commexo scum which means it cuts down on the number of Nightkills lengthening the game and giving Day even more time to sort out the 1in3. It also strengthens the PoE power for Day.

This all ignores AGar’s information he provided. Do you think he’s lying or the odds that his information isn’t the cause of the missing kill.

Also, this dawned on me. Just to clear up MY obsession with one scum in Bella/MoI? Um...WTF? Shouldn't you have a similar obsession?

Sigh. I said this Day 1. The information isn’t going to expire. You seem to have some stupid obsession with not lynching scum because it isn’t the scum in the 1in3. Not my issue. I know whether I am Nightkilled or lynched at some point that I’ll be vindicated as Day. And each Night that passes is another Night for undisclosed Day investigative roles to take a crack at all the players in the 1in3 group and myself.

You act like the sky is falling when we’ve gotten 3 of 6 scum offed in 2 days and have another awaiting Mod scene …

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

This is non-negotiable.

Get bent.

VOTE: Bella. Time to put down the scum in the 1in3

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well I see Gamma is either faking a result to get a policy lynch effected or scum. The list of people I get to mock post-game (along with both heads of the hydras) grows by one.

Anyone who thinks there is any chance I flip scum needs to return to Road to Rome.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I relish all the jockeying that is going on to take credit for this lynch. It makes me chuckle.

@Gamma

- Nope. I will await your 'explanation' of how your legitimate result was dead wrong in the Dead QT.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Frankly I'm not going to even bother fighting since Day is in such a good position we can afford at least 1 terribly stupid lynch.

Probably people should get around to asking Petapan who his protect was last Night as some point. Questions should also be made about Town having TWO players who can effectively make themselves BP every Night (Shmugen and Petapan).