How To Win Scum Games:

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How To Win Scum Games:

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:18 pm

Post by Umbrage »

Hello. I'm Umbrage. I have a near-perfect scum record. The reason for this is that the current meta on this site is horrible, and most if not all players in any game can be easily manipulated if you know what you're doing. It's gotten to the point where I've stopped playing games because they all go the exact same way and it's boring as hell. Instead, I'm going to share what I've learned with all of you.

This is a guide for new players and a review for old ones on how to win with a Mafia PM, every single time. I have never lost a scum game using this method, and every time I deviated from it, I was quickly lynched.

Now, there's sure to be some clown who will dig up some old scum game I lost and try to use that as evidence that I shouldn't be taken seriously. That person is full of shit, and likely completely stupid as well. This method is fail-proof BECAUSE I have lost games. Every loss teaches me something. I have learned through trial and error what works and what doesn't. And even with my method, I have lost. You can't control everything in a game, sometimes events occur that lead directly to your lynch and there's nothing to be done about it. There's a lot of randomness in mafia. And of course there are times when I simply fucked up. I'm not perfect. My method is. I have absolute faith in these rules, so much that I expect that even after I expose the list to everyone it will still be every bit as effective until the site meta changes. The beauty of this method is that it relies on town's hesitations. Even if the town knows exactly what you're doing, they'll still be too scared to lynch you. Townies are notoriously afraid of everything, particularly the unknown. They are more likely to lynch a player they are unsure of than a player that they think is scum. Townies are morons. In order to win, you must prey upon their stupidity.

These rules are all important, they are numbered for ease of reading but they have no hierarchy. Obey them all.

Remember: you do not have to make the town believe you are town. You just have to avoid getting lynched. NEVER EVER play a scum game as if you were town, because you're not, and it will never work. Contrary to common logic, the best way to survive is not to appear town. Players that are obviously town get lynched all the time. The best way to survive is to manipulate people into doing what you want them to do. If your reads are good enough, you can use some of these strategies to win town games as well.


1. Be funny. Be charming. If someone has a question, answer it promptly, honestly, and in a friendly way. Never make an entire post contain only a joke though, townies hate that. Weave them in your posts. Pretend to be posting from a phone and make some funny autocorrect mistakes. Or link to a small .gif file. It doesn't matter what. If you make people laugh, they will like you. Trust you. And they can't help it, it's basic human psychology. If they say to cut out the jokes, do so immediately and with a contrite apology.

2. Have at least one firm town read on a townie. From as soon as it's reasonable to the end of the game, that one player is town to you. Don't pick someone randomly, have a good case behind their towniness. Then ignore all criticisms towards that townie. Best case scenario, they get lynched and you earn mega townie points. Worst case, you get lynched and everyone suspects that townie. Plus, townies love to pick out people without town reads, so you should be safe from that.

3. Don't have a meta. At all. Make your play exactly the same across all games. Even if you absolutely hate being X alignment, suck it up and play your best. If anyone ever thinks you're scum because of a meta tell, you have fucked up. Find out what you did wrong, and fix it for the future.

4. You have absolutely no connection to your scumbuddies. At all. You cannot give a shit whether they're lynched or not. You will not buddy them. You will not bus them. You will, however, argue with them. When you're ganging up on the same townie, poke holes in each other's cases. Bicker. Do not get along. It doesn't matter whether you find each other town or not, you just can't look like you're synchronized. Town picks up on that, not consciously, but they will notice and it will bite you in the ass. Generally scum buddies are either best friends or mortal enemies. Don't do that.

5. Never have a VI or lurker town as your primary suspect. All other things being equal, a VI or lurker will always be the lynch. It is your job to be in on this lynch as a compromise. You can't ignore the wagon because that shows scum knowledge. You can't push the wagon, that's too dangerous. Do your own thing, but come deadline, say that guy's going to be the lynch no matter what you think and switch over. This isn't hard to do. As I said, townies always want to lynch VIs and players that are annoying, no matter how town they look. All you need to do is give in at the right moment. The mislynch isn't your fault, you're just going with the flow.

6. A clueless townie that is hard to lynch is a great asset, particularly if they have a short fuse and lots of posting time. You should always be testing potential wagons, and you'll usually find one guy who nobody wants to lynch. That guy is now your primary suspect. Tunnel on him all day, then when nobody else wants him dead, you settle for a VI townie lynch, then do it all over again next day.

7. Be as distracting as possible. While people will complain if you make too many wall posts, almost nobody complains if you take up several pages with a silly one-on-one argument that nobody else cares about. This can be done with a buddy or your primary suspect. Use confusing pronouns whenever possible to increase uncertainty, and never let a single point drop. Argue your stance back and forth, getting more obscure each time. If you make reference to an earlier post, state the number but do not give a link. Nobody will admit that they can't follow the argument, they will find it difficult to concentrate both on reading you and pushing their own agenda, and best of all, they can't call you out on anything because you're just a loyal townie doing his best to catch scum.

8. WIFOM is good. Use it whenever possible. Nobody really knows if it's a scumtell or not, and few people actually know what it is as well as how it applies to games. If you're going to use WIFOM to counter an opponent's argument, be sure to end your statement with "so that's all WIFOM anyway". This has the double effect of protecting yourself from getting caught using WIFOM and voiding the topic. Someone might catch on to what you're doing, but you can just ignore them. You won't get lynched for that. Since nobody knows what WIFOM is, they can't say it's a scumtell.

9. Never ever ever use OMGUS. Even if someone obviously has a bad case against you and is really scummy, never vote them back. Even if the word OMGUS is never used, people will be thinking it, and they will see you as a weak loser. If your suspect votes you, be sure to imply this, only without using the word OMGUS since that sets people off, and nobody's really sure what to make of it now.

10. Make lists. Take all the players in the game, and make a list of them with your thoughts. Use the words 'town', 'scum', 'null', 'gut' and 'leaning'. I'm surprised people still use these, they mean absolutely nothing and their only use is to make it look like you're doing more shit than you actually are. But somehow, players love them. They eat them up. So do around one per day, then forget you ever made it. There are always new events happening that change your mind, after all, so you can't hold people to that kind of thing. I know, dumb as shit, but townies buy it.

11. Kill off the serene ones. The townies that have no emotions whatsoever. You can't rile them up, and if they catch you you won't shake them. If they think you're town, then you can let them live for a while, but remember that they're usually unlynchable. Townies want drama in a lynch, and they won't get it from someone who doesn't get mad. Be careful though, because a lot of the townies that seem sensible and cool on the outside are just ready to erupt. Make them lose it. Break their spirits and the game is yours.

12. Quickhammer once per game. This is such a major scumtell that it actually becomes a towntell. Particularly if your hammer is accompanied by a large post reaffirming the reasons for the lynch.

13. Appeal to Emotion works. It's also nearly impossible to prove. You have to create a sympathetic character that will appeal to the townies. Someone smart, honest, eager to hunt scum, but hiding a scared and vulnerable centre. Don't be afraid to have a breakdown when under pressure. People won't like it, but it'll work all the same.

14. Don't respond to attacks. I was shocked to discover this works, but if you stick your head in the sand long enough the threat actually will go away. See, townies are scared of dealing with problems head on. They don't want to push for answers. If you simply don't give answers, they have no idea what to do. Now if someone goes to the trouble of making a huge case on you, that means they're locked in and you should reply to everything they say. But let the casual things slide. Responding to attacks will only draw attention to yourself.

15. Take any chance you get to 'confirm' yourself as town. Do something that scum would never ever do. It doesn't matter how illogical or WIFOMy your story is, just keep saying it. You're practically confirmed town. If you believe it, they will believe it. People absorb information by repitition. People are also stupid.


I think that's enough of a list. Feel free to ask any questions. I might do another article on the types of players you meet in games, and how to manipulate them. Every game has the same cast of characters, and with practice you can become adept at recognizing them. Characters like the Town Leader, the Indecisive, the Arrogant, and the Immature. I'm sure you know some people who fit these archtypes.

Quiz time: if those four characters are your kill choices, who do you shoot?

Spoiler:
Answer: the Indecisive. Indecisive players are unpredictable, and unpredictablity will cost you.



There. I think that should be enough for a first lesson. Questions? Comments? Failtrolls? All are welcome.
Last edited by Umbrage on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:23 pm

Post by redFF »

Holy shit Umbrage my mind is blown thank you for your counsel.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:24 pm

Post by Timeater »

Thanks for this Umbrage.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:56 pm

Post by Umbrage »

<3
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:21 pm

Post by PMysterious »

Now I know how to beat your scum game Umbrage. :wink:
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm

Post by Ythan »

I had to page down three times to get past your one post and you put a single line in spoiler tags?
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:38 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

I'm skimming, but how do you reconcile "Make your play exactly the same across all games." with "NEVER EVER play a scum game as if you were town"?

2 is good, but the converse is true as well (which is basically 6). Have at least one good scum read on someone you know is town (or at least not in your faction). Be willing to change it, but make them work for it, and keep your suspicion alive at the end of your posts. Again, if you die, that person gets suspicion aimed anew.

5 is...not true, I don't think. At least, "say that (VI) is going to be the lynch no matter what you think and switch over" is dangerous as hell.

10 is truth. But people like lists I think because they are concise.

11 is also truth.

14 shouldn't be true. Then again, I don't play much anymore.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:39 pm

Post by Hoopla »

The best way to play as scum depends a lot on how you think the other players perceive you and mafia in general - as such, your game needs to be fluid and it would be perfectly acceptable (and necessary) to violate any of those rules in certain situations. You'll probably need to refine your own play based on your declarations in this thread. The metagame is never static.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:46 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Ummm.... comptetent town defeats most of these.

That said, from somepony with just as good of a scum record (I have three losses in over four years, one crosskill multiscum, one cop, one partner essentially gamethrowing) a few of these are good points.

A much simpler list is

1) Be liked. This actually makes players so much more unwilling to lynch you if they like having you around. It also makes them more willing to listen to you.
2) Be active. Activity is viewed as a mild town tell and should be easy to do. It also lets you control the game more.
3) Appear smart. Again, just makes players think you are town.

Most of your other tells (make lists, quickhammer, AtE) are all going to be bought or not depending on the player. Im WAY more likely to think somepony who quickhammered is scum unless there is something contrary and lists, especially vauge ones are massive scumtells in my book.

Also something that needs to be said... there are people that will almost ALWAYS read you as scum when you are scum. They just know exactly how you work. If I remember right ive called you correctly as scum both times you have been scum within about five pages. You are just exceedingly obvious scum when I see you play it.

Dont respond to attacks is one that should be added to "admit to things". If somepony says "scum because they did X", at times actually flat out responding "yes I did X because of ___" will actually go a long way to shutting it down.

At same time

4 is HORRIBLE to do as scum. If you can defend a partner to sweep its far easier to do then hope your town credit lasts. If they cant make it to a win bus, but if you can keep them alive... keep them alive.
5 again is bad. If they look scummy, who cares if they are a VI/lurker, they get lynched.
12 is stupid.

Rest are decent points but lots of "scumplay 101"
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:22 pm

Post by Om of the Nom »

I make jokeposts and fluff posts all the time and people just call me town for it :V
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:31 pm

Post by kuribo »

4 actually makes you vulnerable to the classic scum connection, "Oh, X flipped scum, but look at how he barely mentioned LivingPlayer."
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:36 am

Post by Benmage »

Not much new here. Scum winning is pretty simple. I think in my entire time on this site I've been lynched once as scum, and it was due to cross scum bussing to save a partner and have them win. All others were PRs or crosskills...

-Killing serene is also killing experienced town.

-Never really tried 14 much... some shit I ignore if I think its pointless.. so I guess.

-Quickhammering must be real situational.... I'm very rarely in a position off a wagon and willing to hammer it.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:24 am

Post by Nero Cain »

14 is bad. A smart townie will see it.
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edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:33 am

Post by syndromeofatown »

In post 12, Nero Cain wrote:14 is bad. A smart townie will see it.

The smart townies will catch it and then get frustrated when the dumb townies refuse to believe it's a scum tell.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:36 am

Post by Nero Cain »

SOAD wins the thread.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:37 am

Post by kuribo »

how to win as scum:

1) claim beloved princess

2) you are now confirmed town

:-) just messing with you umbrage
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:32 am

Post by Rainbowdash »

What I actually would like to see is Umbrage actually follow his Rule #1. Every time ive seen him as scum he was a complete dick to the entire playerlist and actually got force replaced in one game for being way over the top. Then again thats also his town meta... but I think most players view him as "ass" instead of "charming".

Intersting side point though ive been thinking of, how is "playing exact same meta" playing to your win condition? Its going to either be playing suboptimally as both or against it as one alignment. Making it hard to tell the difference sure, but playing to an exact same meta means you are hurting some play ala Natarisha.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:49 am

Post by Nero Cain »

I have trouble sometimes faking scumhunting as scum (and even sometimes scumhunting as town) but generally speaking when I played to my town "meta" in Imperial Intrigue I was more or less a town read till the final day. That's why I think alot of the newer players have anti-town playstyles as town.
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edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:58 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Generally people who try to obscure their meta don't do so perfectly, but those that do it well can be frustrating to play with. It forces you to waste more time on them trying to get a reliable read.

I've had pretty decent success in scum games despite having meta that pretty easily gets me caught. This mostly comes from punishing players tendencies to hunt for connections.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:59 am

Post by Guttersnipe »

I do a lot of this stuff as town, is that bad? I am trying to clean up my town game but I am not very good at being a good player, haha.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:14 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Some of them are good advice for town as well (1, 3, 9, 10, 15, arguably 13 and 14) it just happens to be true that avoiding lynch is MORE important for scum.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:18 pm

Post by Eddard Stark »

3) is not a thing you can do unless you literally act like a fucking idiot in game though. You can't 'not have a meta' that's impossible if you play games.

Most of these are sound. Not being clear/understandable isn't - if you need to resort to that you're kind of low level. Quickhammering is kind of stupid, so how about now. Disagree with 9) since a lot of people feel it's a minor town tell.

Responding to attacks can be useful too, it's an easy way to provide content/look busy.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:33 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

In post 21, Eddard Stark wrote:3) is not a thing you can do unless you literally act like a fucking idiot in game though.


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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:46 pm

Post by kuribo »

Okay, so:

#1- out of character for some players, and sometimes people can tell if you're trying too hard.
#2- Not bad, I did this to Katsuki and Amrun in Catch-22, then I took both of them to endgame with me and Toogeloo. Toogs was so confused that he voted himself in MYLO, hoping that the vig could kill Katsuki.
#3- Impossible.
#4- A bad idea, because every noob scumhunter looks for this as it is. And the better town scumhunters can pick it out as soon as one of you flips. I'd argue the contrast: Interact ALOT with one another. Interact with your scumbuddies, and each of you pick a townie or two to pretty much ignore. You can get mislynches this way if one of you flips.
#5- Lurker lynches are seen as scummy, but sometimes you can needle a VI until he explodes into a torrent of scummy behavior that can't be ignored. I've unfortunately done this as town.
#6- Not bad. If you have a person that's loud, in charge, and has completely wrong reads, you want to keep them around to help you mislynch.
#7- This can be bad, some people can tell if you're being distracting. It helps if your meta is that you tend to get into pissy side-arguments with people. (This is one of the things people expect of me, for example) Be careful, sometimes your scumbuddies will drop the "This feels town vs. town" tell.
#8- Alot of people DO know what WIFOM is, and poo-pooing away arguments by brushing it with "That's just WIFOM" is a classic scumtell. I would lynch you for this one, especially combined with #s 4 and 7.
#9- Near did this to me in Catch-22 Mafia whenever I voted him. It's blatant, it's obvious, it's dumb.
#10- If you don't do this as town, this will be seen as scummy. You need to have some consistency in your lists / reads, otherwise people will realize you're just tossing shit out there. DGB's Scumputer was always a good way of doing this--- she always did it as town, and when she did it as scum, she simply fudged the numbers. It helped that other than the fact that it was a complicated Vote Count Analysis, no one really knows how the hell she came up with her readouts to begin with.
#11- No. Kill off the players you fear. Leave the lurkaderps to endgame. You can't tell me you'd rather have someone like Fate or SpyreX in endgame with you when you're scum. They're both known for shouting, and they're both more than capable of fucking your game. And I would know. I've had both of them fuck my scumgame.
#12- Depends on your meta, though I admit that in Catch-22 I got away with quickhammering at least one person I shouldn't have. For the most part, people will be extremely annoyed with you regardless of the flip.
#13- If Appeal to Emotion worked, I wouldn't have had to get Nuwen lynched in Catch-22.
#14- Bad idea. I'm a big fan of the idea that folks who try to play "too cool for school" under pressure are usually scum. Further, I've been told that I do this all the time as scum, and that it's a huge scumtell for me.
#15- Some players are scary good at spotting gambits, but that's why you kill them before you pull it. Let them rage from the dead QT.

As for your quiz, I'd kill the town leader if he thinks you're scum.
Town Leader- People usually think he's town, and it's usually because his reads have been good. This person will get you killed in endgame.
The Indecisive- Much easier to mold and manipulate. He doesn't have to be predictable to help hand you a win.
The Arrogant- If his reads have been hilariously wrong, he will help you mislynch in lylo.
The Immature- Why the hell would you kill this guy? He's gonna have a temper tantrum and do something stupid.

So it's you, Indecisive, Arrogant, and Immature. Arrogant and you are needling Immature, he has a pissy fit and does something like self-vote. All you need is for Arrogant to get annoyed with that, you quickhammer, and unless there's a doc or something that night, you just won.
Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.

Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew
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Timeater
Timeater
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Timeater
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:53 pm

Post by Timeater »

This is a god-tier guide Umbrage. Not trolling. I will def use all of these pointers.
watch for the eggshells
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