1371: Futurama Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Eidolon]

what did i ignore?

wtf are you going on about?

You are trying to force me into voting with you and saying i'm not town (and you'll make a case on me) if i don't do things your way. it's bullying. like i said 'll be back later.

[rapidcanyon]

Well, out of all the players on the site, I think you are the most fun to play with. I am just disappointed that you think I am bullying. W/e, I'll replace out if you want. I don't want to but I'll do it.

Pedit: you didn't answer why you thought Venmar was town. You never gave a case for voting TF besides he didn't defend himself despite the fact that I asked you a 1000 times.

I am not saying you aren't town if you don't do things "my way." I am saying, as town, you usually vote for the most likely scum. I explained why Cheery is our best lead. You ignored it and voted TF based on about nothing. This isn't your usual town behavior. That is why I think you are scum. You also forgot about Venmar way too easily.

[Robocopter87]

havingfitz replaces vijay2vasandani!
PiggyGal15 replaces Tangion!

Effective immediately!

WELCOME THEM!

[havingfitz]

Good evening.

I'll read up tomorrow and post thoughts/vote once I'm done/asap.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz goodnight.

[Venmar]

Welcome to the game Fitz.

You might need a F-Ray or something to sift through this mess, such as all the wall posts around and such.

As for me, i have been slacking as of late due to school starting up recently. My schedule has settled for the most part now, and I will get around to this again once again in the following days.. i assure you all.

For now I don't like how RC is jumping all over the place, and his Eidolon vote is pretty bad.

[Cheery Dog]

Bachelor #1

Cheery, if Rapid flips town, how would that change your reads one me, Eidolon, rofl, and TF?

Your scumpoints would probably go up, for getting him to paraphase his role and also you still haven't talked about #173 like you were going to
Eidolon would increase in towniness for saying the rapid has acted like this as town before.

rofl would still be town, as his posts still seem town motivated to me, they just weren't seeming as town motivated when he was one of my active player suspicions.

TF hasn't interacted with rapid yet, so I'm unsure about him, probably going to stay the same.

what does this mean? who are you suspicious of and why?

If you'd read the post I was talking about (Post 235), you'll see that I said I believed at that stage all the active players were likely town, rofl at that stage was one of my weaker reads, however I see more town motivation now.
My current suspicious are rapidcanyon for all his flipfloping with his vote, the rolefishing (which until the question I asked is answered is still going to be rolefishing), the attack of everyone who doesn't agree with him and trying to get everyone to sheep him.
NumberQ for his hammer, though I see reason for why he doesn't want to nameclaim from town.
TF because of my biggest scumread's continual pointless defence of him
Tangion is also a weak read for only posting the once, but that doesn't give much.

I am not certain about TF scum. I think it is Cheery. Angry, if you think it is Cheery, then vote him.

Also, Eidolon, if you are town, don't be swayed by a mere command from Rofl as opposed to an entire case from me.

Yet you wanted people to move into voting rofl by a mere command.

Re 379: It is level of detail and reasoning given in the case that explains Cheery's scum motivation that makes it a better case, not just the number of words although giving a detailed case takes more words.

Look, I am not watching my biggest scumread. If you want to be watched, prove to me that you are town.

Wait I thought I was your biggest scumread, seeing as you made this big case on me.

@ Angry, if they are both scummy, let's lynch Cheery.

Anyways, I am still on Cheery. Let's go for him first. I am far more certain of him being scum. Why? I actually interacted with him. I know for a fact that he presented poor reasoning for voting me - too convenient. I know that lied and misrepped. I know that he made baseless accusations. I don't know what TF is like. We can get a better idea by having him be replaced and analyzing the posts.

Pedit: You are dumb if you think I am going to watch my biggest scumread.

So rofl is still your biggest scumread then? Why are you the more certain of me being scum if rofl is your biggest scumread?

There is just no way you are town, period. You basically voted TF because Rofl told you to and ignored my well thought out case because of "holes" you wouldn't mention. My logic isn't flawed, you just say it is. I never said I was a better player than you. I know you are a much better player than me both as town and as scum and I always openly admitted it. I just don't think you are town this game. First, you unvote Venmar for no reason, then you refuse to vote for Cheery.

You seriously need to calm down your ego.


Anyway, what are the votes currently? I'm thinking of moving onto TF because him and RC are double buddying each other, but I don't what to be accidentally hammering while the replacements are still reading up.

[rapidcanyon]

RC, you really annoy me with how you say i'm scum in like every game we play together. just because i don't follow your plans doesn't make me scum. i catch scum great on my own, thank you very much. just look at the game where i replaced you. so you saying im scum because i havent been "following (your flawed) logic" and i need to do this, this and this in order to be town is bs and you know it.

I never at any point in all our interactions together claimed to be a better player than you. I know you are better than me as both town and as scum and have admitted that and never contested you when you claim you are so good, you can "read me like a book." So, why are trying to prove your town skills to me when I pretty much concede it all?

stop bullying other players. it gets you no where. we've gone over this already.

Okay. I am sorry.

anyways, i'm fairly confident in rofl and ap town reads. i'm still confused about rc though i'm leaning town. venmar and blastoide town.

Agreed on AP. Why are you confident that Rofl is town? Is it the soft-claim? Well, my read on him is dependent entirely on whether it pans out.

Why do you think Venmar is town? You never really explain it at all. I went through the effort of picking apart every sentence everyone said in defence of Venmar. I am sorry but it is really frustrating when you just shake your head and say "nah, town" when I think I am right and spent half an hour explaining why.

i think cheery and tf are both suspicious.

Well, since you are suspicious of Cheery, makes sense to lynch him.

Cheery's posts are just confusing to me and i really don't understand his perspective. but that doesn't necessarily relate to his alignment.

Exactly what was confusing? Why not ask him to clarify his perspective to figure out whether it is town or scum motivated?

I think Tf is a stronger scumread and i'd rather wagon with my town reads than with my confused read.

How is TF even a lead. Okay, he was lurking. That is pretty much the entire case on him. We had two people get replaced already. Why not get the mod to replace TF as well?

I won't quote 392 in its entirety, I generally hate quoting but sometimes, I feel it conveys a point. Other times, it is an annoying striped wall difficult to read. I'd suggest clicking the link to match my answers with.

Why I think TF is town? I don't know whether he is town. I just don't think we should lynch a lurker when a much stronger scum read appears. Cheery has posted. His defence is inadequate. I pointed out the flaws in his defence. Most of it just read like trying to appease me while keeping him vote on me which is based on poor reasoning.

"

If you think AP is town, and you think rofl is bussing his buddy, then what is the flaw in going with tf?

"

That is not the only possibility. Rofl could be scum pushing a town lynch. Rofl could be town and wrong about TF. Bottomline, I think it is more likely to hit scum by lynching Cheerydog or Venmar as opposed to TF. I don't necessarily think he is town, I just would rather lynch two other people. Since a whole bunch of people are coming out of the woodworks to say Venmar is town with no reasoning, I see Cheery as the only practical lynch out of my two suspects.

You've played a lot of games with me and you know when they give up like that, they are scum.

Cheery Dog isn't as surefire. Sure, he seems scummy, but a lot of your case on him is wifom, and he tried, which means that he possibly believes what he's saying.

Where has he given up? He barely posted anything. He is flaking out of this game, basically.

How is my case "WIFOM?" WIFOM is basically infinite reverse psychology. It is when a player says "If I were scum, I wouldn't do that." But then they would do it precisely so they can say that statement. But could they really be town? And so on and so forth. What about my case implied this? Almost all parts of it were concrete facts, catching Cheery is his lies and his behavior betraying his knowledge that I am town and his weak reasoning for voting me.

Pedits later.

[rapidcanyon]

This post should go before my previous one. I already typed it out but forgot to post. I don't know if the mod can correct it or not but this one goes on top.

Okay, I was waiting for Eidolon to post her responses but I thought it was much better to just get it all out and lay my cards on the table.

So, firstly I think Eidolon is town. The intensity of her going after me and her general annoyance seems like frustrated town to me unless she is faking it which would be borderline malicious if she was scum. I haven't ever seen her this annoyed when scum and is usually a lot more sneaky and playful about everything. Although, her non-responses don't add up.

So, Eidolon, first off, if I annoyed you, I am sorry. Regardless of your affiliation, that wasn't nice. I considered just replacing out (and I will still do so if you want me to) but realized that the mod already needed two replacements who just came in. Every game we play together, I find it fun and you are one of the most fun players on this site. You don't seem to find it fun to play with me - at least this game. Maybe because I always accuse you of being scum. But the accusation is always meant in-game and isn't supposed to be anything about your character or anything similar.

You said that I was bullying you in the game. That was never my intention. All I was doing was accusing you of being scum. It had nothing to do with you as a person and everything to do with what I think is your affiliation in a particular game and I am sorry if it came off in a way I didn't expect. It was somewhat shocking to hear since I always thought you liked playing with me just as much as I like playing with you. Especially after we went after each other in the Chosen mafia game but turned around to lynch scum at the end. Also, to be entirely fair to me, you suspect me just as much as I suspect you, if not more in each game we play.

Unvote: Eidolon

Vote: Cheerdog

Anyways, I'll go through your posts one by one.

i see some problems in rc's case after reading it more carefully though. i'm still leaning town on him and scum on cheery though, mainly due to cheerys reactions. i don't see rc bussing cheery at this point.

What are the problems that you see. If there are problems, why are you still leaning scum on Cheerydog? If you are still leaning scum on him, makes sense to vote him, right?

[rapidcanyon]

Wait I thought I was your biggest scumread, seeing as you made this big case on me.

Pretty clear case of someone pretending not to understand something that is relatively clear: As I have repeated over and over and over, Rofl is my scumread based on behavior pending confirmation. We'll wait for him to confirm himself next Day. I'll go from there based on Rofl.

I mean your entire block of responses have been scummy and anti-town. You ask questions that have already been answered. I am about 99% convinced you are scum.

[PiggyGal15]

Spoiler: LEELA!!

1. 

Spoiler: My Leela!!

1. 

Spoiler: My precious Leela!!

1. 

How could they?! Don't worry, I'll get them for this.

Spoiler: I will have my revenge!!

1. 

(If you couldn't tell... I'm Lord Nibbler.)
Before I go into the games details, will you please,

please

,

please

stop calling Scruffy the Janitor, just plain old "scruffy" that is not his name, and it is a pet peeve of mine.

Spoiler: One does not simply call Scruffy the Janitor, "scruffy".

All pet peeves aside (no pun intended... get it? Cause Nibbler is the pet of the - oh nevermind...)

Now, usually I am very disheartened when I get town, cause I really don't like playing town... and I'm horrible at it, but this time, I'm actually glad because I read this whole thread in detail (well okay, not post 334, but honestly, who reads a wall of post like that?) before even getting a confirmation there was still a spot available to replace into... So with the whole thing read with a townie mind-set, it just makes me very glad I can just say all my reads out right and not have to juggle any of them to make them work.

First off, who still hasn't claimed? #Q and vijay, right? Well I'm betting anything that one will be Amy Wong and the other...? I know the cast backwards and forwards, and there's no one in my mind who would still be in this list of cast - besides, of course, the antagonists, which no one in their right mind is going to claim... most likely the reason why #Q hasn't claimed yet, most likely scum, has no safe claim, and has no idea what to claim instead. But that's barely enough reason for me to FOS him since his play has been relatively townie. Though I really would like to know who #Q is...

Now since it's late and I have to get up early tomorrow, I can only focus on the main bandwagons right now, the rest of my reads shall come tomorrow

Toonfighter - I very much dislike this lynch, not to say I don't think TF isn't scum, he's just a null read. I would really love him to come out of hiding and talk to us. If anything, I'd lynch him for lurking... but at this point, I'm tempted to say it's inactivity, not lurking.

Venmar - While I do find his play to be slightly scummy for earlier on, later posts have made me think he's town. What I

do

find scummy is the wagon on him. Or more so, the lack there of. What happened to it? Even better question, why does that first question never get answered? Every time someone brings it up, no one acknowledges it. I'll do some in depth reading tomorrow as to just who started leading everyone away from Venmar, and more importantly, who kept them away, and why. I have a feeling scum are written all over that.

Now rapidcanyon and Cheery Dog... page 11 and 12... wtf guys, seriously. I couldn't stop laughing while I was reading that. I have to very much agree with Cheery Dog on the whole thing. His responses are almost word for word what I was saying in my head. Now I have seen arguments like that before and they're almost always town vs. town... except rc just takes the cake, with the cherry,

and the whip cream

for doing a complete personality switch. I had rc as my top town read, until page 11. Now, I know scum aren't typically that obvious but... obvious scum is obvious! No townie in their right mind makes a post like 334, and then pushes it beyond all belief. He is flailing like a magicarp... using flail. It is very sad to watch as my best town read becomes be number 1 scum read, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

VOTE: rapidcanyon

please explain to me how 1000 words empirically better than 100 words because all i'm seeing is an appeal to "look at these big numbers!" and thats a fallacy and a half

Words I live by rofl, couldn't have said that better myself.
I'm going to go more into that tomorrow... for now, the fact that he took so much time to analyze Cheery Dog

and then push the case like it's the best thing in the world

...which is interesting since he did the same with the one on Eidolon... is incredibly scummy. No town cares that much. It's just... they don't. Not these days, making a wall of a case like that is my #1 scum tell. He's pushing and pushing, hoping to get our attention, but no one cares. Like I said, only scum care about making cases. I only make them cause people start to yell at me for just... well, doing what I've done here. Generalize everything and give no examples - something I find as a very good town tell. I can go into it later if anyone cares...
There are a billion (might be a slight exaggeration, we'll see tomorrow) other reasons I've got for thinking he's scum, but they're specific stuff I'll go into later when I've got the time. Mainly just the argument with Cheery Dog, at first I was thinking "Oh, it's just VI flailing around" but then later, page 13 I think, he starts

really

contradicting himself, and it just seems like scum caught in the fish net.

That leaves vijay which I shall see what Fitz does with that slot, AP, Blastoid, Eidolon, #Q and rofl. All of which have town reads - except #Q, he is null until I ISO him.

Everything shall be reasoned tomorrow, for right now, I am going to bed...




...yeesh, I think that was the longest

intro

post I've ever done... *faints*

[Cheery Dog]

Why I think TF is town? I don't know whether he is town. I just don't think we should lynch a lurker when a much stronger scum read appears. Cheery has posted. His defence is inadequate. I pointed out the flaws in his defence. Most of it just read like trying to appease me while keeping him vote on me which is based on poor reasoning.

If I was trying to appease, maybe it's because you were fucking insulting me in every post you made, and I don't appreciate being insulted.

That whole page of things was that you refused to believe I had found you scummy when you clearly had been

Whatever at least I know for next time, I react 'scummy' to insults.

and wtf is with your complete 360 turn on Eidolon?

Wait I thought I was your biggest scumread, seeing as you made this big case on me.

Pretty clear case of someone pretending not to understand something that is relatively clear: As I have repeated over and over and over, Rofl is my scumread based on behavior pending confirmation. We'll wait for him to confirm himself next Day. I'll go from there based on Rofl.

I mean your entire block of responses have been scummy and anti-town. You ask questions that have already been answered. I am about 99% convinced you are scum.

Because you're this "

town

" player that needs to be leading, and me attacking you means I'm "

scummy/anti-town

".
Seriously? I'm 99% "

scum

" yet based on rofl's behaviour he's a bigger scumread, which would imply bigger than 99%, you are way too convinced of your reads. Where does everyone else you've accuse of being scum sit in these percentages?

[rapidcanyon]

Advice to Piggy - READ. If you don't want to read, there is no reason to play this game. People put effort into the game in order to convince town to lynch the people they think are scum.

You are seriously doing a disservice to the mod and the players by voting off of stuff that you don't read.

You agree with me that TF is a bad lynch and yet you vote me? What do you think I've been trying to do for the last 10 pages? I have been trying to get people to lay off of TF and vote Cheery. So, to clarify, your theory is that I am scum defending TF to get towncred in case he flips town? It is not outside the realm of possibility but if I were scum, I wouldn't so forcefully try to get the votes off of TF to the point where my best friend in the game flips out at me and accuses me of bullying.

Your analysis on Venmar - you are basically regurgitating what Angry and Eidolon said about him. No reasoning provided.

Also, I wasn't the one leading the wagon away from Venmar. I am down for lynching him. You basically agree with my scumreads and you vote me. So, yeah, please read in detail who I was suspecting and whose wagons I was pushing.

You posted a bunch of complete fluff regarding my case against Cheery. This is complete fluff.

"

Now rapidcanyon and Cheery Dog... page 11 and 12... wtf guys, seriously. I couldn't stop laughing while I was reading that. I have to very much agree with Cheery Dog on the whole thing. His responses are almost word for word what I was saying in my head. Now I have seen arguments like that before and they're almost always town vs. town... except rc just takes the cake, with the cherry, and the whip cream for doing a complete personality switch. I had rc as my top town read, until page 11. Now, I know scum aren't typically that obvious but... obvious scum is obvious! No townie in their right mind makes a post like 334, and then pushes it beyond all belief. He is flailing like a magicarp... using flail. It is very sad to watch as my best town read becomes be number 1 scum read, but that's the way the cookie crumbles

."

Is that something you expect to make sense? You ignored the whole case and post a bunch of absolute fluff, and agree with me regarding TF, and vote me. Do you have any inclination of moving this Day forward at all?

And then you just cheer Rofl on, buddying?

"

No town cares that much. It's just... they don't. Not these days, making a wall of a case like that is my #1 scum tell.

"

Um, do you play mafia. No. I can't begin to tell you what is wrong with that statement. Town tries to find scum and lynch them. That is how town plays this game. Town CARES about who is lynched. Would you have us randomly lynch players?

I really think the last scum-slot could be you if Rofl proves his role. Venmar, Cheery, you.

Lol, Piggy's post was worse than Cheery's. She takes everything that is townish and makes it seem scummish. Her reads have no jusitification at all and at this point, she is just trying to protect Cheery.

Pedit: Based on the fact that Piggy outed herself as scum, I am thinking Rofl has a way of proving himself.

360 turn on Eidolon, I explained it (do you always ask questions that are already answered?). She was way, way, WAY too pissed off to be scum. I know her meta. At some point, it becomes really obvious when someone is town. They do stuff that scum wouldn't. Like what Eidolon did in her last few posts.

[rapidcanyon]

Anyways she dislikes the ToonFighter lynch very much but votes the ONLY player in the game fighting against it. LOL.

Anyways, players I am willing to lynch: Cheery, Piggy, Venmar. Angry is obviously town. Rofl will probably prove himself - based on Piggy's post and Rofl's insistence that he can prove his role, I am leaning towards the latter. Eidolon = town, explained why; Blastoide and NumberQ have to be town by POE. So, I think the scumteam is piggy, cheery, and venmar in that order.

[Cheery Dog]

Of course you find someone else that attacks you to be scum.

Thanks for providing us with the half the town team though.

[rapidcanyon]

Of course you find someone else that attacks you to be scum.

Of course you ignore my reasoning and make baseless accusations. Did you seriously just gloss through the entire post where I accused your buddy and came with that sentence as your conclusion. I actually think her responses are even scummier than yours.

[rapidcanyon]

Seriously though "townies don't care about who is lynched. What is she on... really?" That takes the cake for the scummiest statement I've seen.

So, cheery, do you agree with Piggy's analysis or not?

[Cheery Dog]

Your reasons in much shorter words as follow.
"You attacked me and didn't follow my

obvtown

lead, you must be scum!"

so yes, I'm going to ignore them, they're not any good.

[rapidcanyon]

Are you just dense? Oh, wait, you are not. You are scum pretending to be dense.

Answer this: Do you agree with Pig's analysis or not?

[Cheery Dog]

Yes I agree with Piggy's analysis, however not with what you've made of it. I didn't answer that question straight away as I had to go figure out what you were actually talking about.

I believe that town should be making cases, however not push on it continuously because if it's a good case, people will follow it without needing to be pushed and pushed into reading over the same case.
If it doesn't attract any buyers the moment it is brought out, then it's not a good case and pushing on it further is just a scum claim.

[rapidcanyon]

Explain more about how much you agree with her. Do you disagree on any parts of her post?

[roflcopter]

rapidcanyon, if you are town, you need to learn something from this game. not everyone that suspects you is scum (this is a cross-game point because i am beginning to think you just don't have a grasp on this basic game concept yet). at this point you have been at least nominally suspected by more people than there could possibly be on the scumteam, and you have voted or threatened to vote them all. its beginning to look absurd. your ego has been beyond enormous. if you want people to take you seriously, stop referring to your own cases with glowing, empty adjectives, its very off putting.

i'm honestly just trying to help. i don't want you to get turned off of this board's community, but you're not doing yourself any favors with the abrasive, reactionary and overbearing playstyle.

[roflcopter]

If it doesn't attract any buyers the moment it is brought out, then it's not a good case and pushing on it further is just a scum claim.

this is both extreme and inaccurate

[roflcopter]

piggy if i promise to only refer to scruffy the janitor as scruffy the janitor from now on will you take a leap of faith and join me on the toon fighter wagon? rapidcanyon can be dealt with tomorrow, tf's scum flip will leave him hanging out to dry

[rapidcanyon]

It is not everyone that suspected me but the reasons they gave for that suspicion. Cheery and Piggy gave poor reasoning. Venmar didn't really suspect me. Also, I would imagine scum would want to lynch a PR to get me out of the way so their kill goes through on whoever they want. So, at least some of the people going after me have to be scum. Maybe I wouldn't be so suspicious if I was a VT. Cheery's and Piggy's posts take the cake. Angry for instance initially suspected me and I suspected him but it couldn't be more obvious he was town based on later posts. I thought Eidolon was suspicious but her last few posts aren't scum. There is no way scum would be THAT mad just because I was onto them. Blastoide and numberQ aren't posting anything at all, neither is TF. So, I have it narrowed down to Venmar, Cheery, and Piggy.

I am not convinced on TF-scum. Nobody gives proper reasoning beyond that he is lurking or given up despite me asking repeatedly (to everyone) to give a decent case for why he is scum over Cheerydog. so I am pushing wagons on my scumreads. It is plenty of time before deadline hits so there is time. Piggy's post was just... bad. That is another potential wagon that we might lose if we go for TF.

[Cheery Dog]

Explain more about how much you agree with her. Do you disagree on any parts of her post?

I don't agree entirely with her wagon analysis.
I'm not sure about how scummy the lack of the venmar wagon is, but since you initiated it and then tried to buy people off it and move onto rofl (because he had tried to get people on TF), I'm fairly certain venmar is town since you're scum. and therefore that wagon not existing is fine with me.
TF, I have started to believe he is lurkscum because of your defence of him, however he is still null depending on your flip until he actually gets around to posting more.