Open 455 - Tit for Tat - OVER

[Venmar]

Vote: Lord Mhork

[Venmar]

My bad guys, i haven't been keeping up. Modding and school work have dominated my life for the past day or so, and i'm trying to post where I can.

For the time being, i have no idea why she isn't being looked at right now.

Unvote

Vote: Nekoko

[Venmar]

Nekoko is scum because she blatantly called out 4-5 different people as scummy in one post, as well as pretty much contradict one of those ( Klick ). She first calls Klick's self-vote a townie move ( lol what? ), and then shows doubt on him by questioning his vote change. This is all without including the fact her reasoning was pretty bad for all those scumreads in my opinion.

Doesn't anyone find it fishy that she comes into the game on page 4, and supports the top wagon in the game, and calls some of the people being voted as scummy?

[Venmar]

PEdit:
I'll give her a more thorough look after school. Let me ask you something, though: why can't Klick's early-game self-vote be townie? What do you think of it?

- It's not townie, self-voting itself is an anti-town move. It's a null read at it's best, the fact he got us out of RVS is good, but you can't identify an anti-town move as an immediate town or scum tell. This is without really considering the fact Klick does stunts and gambits like that in a lot of his games, usually in the RVS, i just personally cannot interpret the move as alignment indicative right now.

[Venmar]

Did you just make up your reason now when someone asked for it? You're more sure that I'm scum now than when you voted me.

- I didn't make anything up, so stop making stuff up yourself.

And for your information, I still see Klick as town. You can't ask a question?
I asked a legitimate question because I think his vote is better off in Disturbed_One than in Cheery Dog.
I'd say your scum read on me is terrible.

- So you think his vote is better on the largest bandwagon that which you have blatantly wagon'd on to yourself with little to no reasoning or input that contains reasoning in your own words? And you're saying my reasoning is horrible without saying why or disproving anything that I have said? My my, you must be a genius.

And you mean it's automatically suspicious if you're 6 hours late and the most
suspicious person you could see right now is Disturbed? I'm sorry I didn't come
to the easy part where people randomly voted each other like you. Oh wait,
you still voted randomly when RVS is already over

- Who said my vote was random? Besides, you come into the game and throw suspicion on people who were either being wagoned or they were being voted. Don't believe me? Look at the below spoiler.

Spoiler:

I. Random Voting Stage (Post 5-8)

5.Lord Mhork - RV: A_Potato
6. Disturbed_One - RV: Cheery Dog
7. combinatorialEnigma - RV: NumberQ
8. Klick - RV: Klick

Post 8 - I'll consider Klick's self-vote as a random vote done by town. I don't see the mafia doing crazy stuff that could catch attention. Though I wouldn't think it's a wise thing to do as it's lulzy way to lure votes.

II. (Post 9~)

9. Cheery Dog - V: Klick *
11. Disturbed_One - V: Klick from Cheery Dog
12. Shamrock - V: Disturbed_One
13. Klick - V: Disturbed_One
14. Venmar - RV: Lord Mhork
17. combinatorialEnigma - V: Disturbed from NumberQ
27. Disturbed_One - V: Venmar from Klick
29. Lord Mhork - V: Disturbed_One from A_Potato
45. Klick - V: Cheery from Disturbed_One
50. Cheery Dog - Unvote Klick
53. numberQ- RV: Disturbed
59. HerrRudi - RV: Klick
61. numberQ - Unvote
63. Lord Mhork - Vote: HerrRudi from Disturbed_One

Post 9 - Don't find anything suspicious with Cheery's vote on Klick. I think it's a good way to end RVS as soon as possible.

Post 11 - Scummy. I think this is the case of scum taking advantage on Klick's weird self-vote. If what Disturbed_One said on Post 25 that he has no scum experience is true, then it makes this more believable to me.

Post 14 - Suspicious vote on Lord Mhork by Venmar. I think it's very clear that something is happening already and it looks like he doesn't want his opinions to be heard.

Post 27 - I would have entertained Disturbed_One's reason on Post 19 if not for this one. I think it's scummy that he would unvote after getting pressure.

Post 45 - I don't understand this vote. Why Cheery Dog? The only reason I could see from my point of view is that he voted you.

Post 53 - I don't like this post as it looks like it's a lazy way to start the game. And it's not even RVS anymore. What's weird is that I think it's not "random" anymore if the person you're voting on is half of the majority.

Post 59 - HerrRudi's vote on Klick is more suspicious than Venmar as the game is already 3 pages long and there are more things to comment on.

---

For now the most scummy player is still Disturbed_One so...
VOTE: Disturbed_One

Klick

- What's your reason for voting Cheery Dog?

Lord Mhork

- In Post 29 you said, "Dude... I was with you up until that horrid last vote... "
Did you too believed that Klick was deserving of the votes?

Disturbed

- Shamrock, CombinatorialEnigma

Venmar

- Disturbed_One

Cheery Dog

- Klick

Klick

- HerrRudi

HerrRudi

- Lord Mhork

I disagree. It helped to spur some discussion to exit RVS which in itself is a very anti-town stage in the game. By throwing his vote down on such an odd target, he made people react. Is that not pro town?

- Dude, read my response again. I'm not going to argue over which of our theories is correct, but stop being obtuse and realize this is not an alignment tell for someone like Kondi.

[Venmar]

Klick is Kondi.

[Venmar]

Sorry, prod has been received.

Nothing to say, i need to catch up. Reads a bit later.

[Venmar]

@MagnaofIllusion - Are you really going to assume that NumberQ's flake is a scumtell in this situation? I've seen him flake from a couple games as of late, regardless of position.

[Venmar]

Nekoko pushing an inactive / lurker lynch while trying to cover it up by saying that OmNom is waiting to pounce or something just reeks of reaching for reasons to incriminate OmNom for reasons we don't even know to be true. Basically, pushing a lurker this early in the game and hypocritically not scumhunting that much yourself is very scummy in my books.

I have mixed feelings about MoI right now and I am just going to keep him in my null pile because I can't formulate a strong read in the ocean of walls that he has made.

[Venmar]

Vig should kill MoI because I can't read the fucker, I want to trust him but I can't. Just make it simpler for me.

Sorry i'm kind of falling behind, I'll post more later.

[Venmar]

Also, the "Defend the VI" tactic is a scum tell from my experience. MattP used the same tactic in History Mafia.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22756

- I've protected VI's numerous amounts of times as town? I can't say you can classify such a common or general method as an alignment tell.

[Venmar]

Lol.

Okay well Nekoko is scum when can we just lynch her?

[Venmar]

Klick has tried a lot of gambits in his lifetime. I wouldn't be surprised if this 1v1 is just another one he has devised. He's probably scum, but I think Nekoko is a much safer bet than taking a risk on someone who is just making a gambit.