Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[BBmolla]

Would you guys prefer to have a vote for who I should vig?

If not I'm shooting one of Seanald/GreyICE by the end of the day.

[Salamence20]

Lynch Ice, Vig MoI. GG.

[Tazaro]

shooting one

of

Seanald

/GreyICE

I am fine with this[/b]

[BBmolla]

Fake claiming miller is retarded.

So is claiming the name of your Scum QT directly in thread for Teehees which leads to you getting Copped Guilty but it never stopped you before …

I don't think claiming the name of my Scum QT was what got me copped, fairly certain I was just scummy.

This game is like the Boy Who Cried Wolf except instead of the boy dying he shoots someone who doesn't believe him.

I do find it humorous how this has turned out though.

"Hey, I'm a Bum, I don't have any money and cops will think I'm mafia."
"No you're not, you're an entrepreneur just like us."
"...No, I'm a Bum. I have no money. I just want to sleep here."
"He's messing with us. He's actually an entrepreneur."
"I HAVE A DAMNED GUN. I'M A BUM."
"Suuuure you are."

[Tazaro]

shooting one of

Seanald

/GreyICE

I am fine with this

[SlumberPartyBois]

Vote: Salamance20

Not RVS

Ok, this is fine. Until:

Kids I'm a bum, I started with no money, I don't even know how the auction shit works cause I sat out of it last night due to nomoney.

I'm a miller cause I'm a bum in a marketplace. I don't fit in and it's obvious.

If it's relevent, investigations on me return "Mafia" not "Guilty".

Vote: BBMolla

This. Never even explains the non-RVS vote on Sala.

This bothers me. I think he would have returned to it at some point if it was a serious vote he really cared about. It just makes me think that it was a bullshit vote from the start, and the way he handled it has a scummy tinge to it. I would actually like to hear GreyICE's explanation for the Sala vote.

By the way, does anyone see too much of a disadvantage with the following plan?

1) The person who won the roleblocker claims
2) if they claim, the person who won the night kill claims

Then we can direct the night kill, if town actually won it?

This is the same as my point on Seanald. Terrible suggestion. I don't like it. It makes me not like him.

Wait really quickly BBmolla does your kill end day phase?

Wait you're taking this bullshit claim seriously?

-_-

unvote molla

vote: spb

This sucks. His explanation:

Scum usually take town claims seriously. Even if they're utter obvious horseshit. The town don't lie bs gets stuck in their head.

I don't believe this bum horseshit, it's not a real role, but spb taking it seriously means he's probably scum and we can sort BB out later.

I don't like it because he is being incredibly 2-D in his scumhunting. "Scum trust townclaims" is sometimes true, but not when someone claims a daykiller and you can test whether or not they are telling the truth. It's weird that he jumped on me for such flimsy reasoning off of BBmolla. And it's weird that he jumped off of BBmolla from Sala prior to elaborating on his Sala vote. His vote jumps have been scummy and undeveloped. In face, he barely if ever explands on any reads or scumhunts (sans this one time he explains why my trust in BBmolla is scummy, that is).

pedit:

@BBMOLLA: You should just discuss the daykill with Gentlemen Bastards and I. Not because he's my only townread, but because he's my only townread I consider coherent enough to actually direct it in a positive manner. I'd recommend GreyICE (I mean, MoI is my top top choice because he is the most annoying to ever get lynched and I have him as a medium scumread so it would spare me the trouble)

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.6

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Tammy (3): Mehdi2277, Gentlemen Bastards, Elmo TeH AzN
Seanald (3): BBmolla, SlumberPartyBois, MagnaofIllusion
Gentlemen Bastards (2): Tammy, Tazaro
BBmolla (1): greygnarl
SlumberPartyBois (1): GreyICE
MagnaofIllusion (1): StefanB
GreyICE (1): Salamence20

Not Voting (8): Guille2015, Voidedmafia, D3f3nd3r, Pitty, Eidolon, PeregrineV, Phillammon, Seanald

Deadline is November 12th, at 11:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2012-11-12 22:00:00)

[SlumberPartyBois]

Definitely do not daykill Seanald. He is the lynch today. I will be strongly advocating his lynch immediately following your daykill use. It would be a waste.

[BBmolla]

If I shoot MoI I don't get to see his reaction when he's wrong.

GB who should I shoot?

[SlumberPartyBois]

That's not very good reasoning to not shoot him ._.

[StefanB]

Read that, thought again and headdesk, why am I believing BBMolla right now?
Why is MoIs as scum beeing ignore, why not more votes, impresions...

[BBmolla]

That's not very good reasoning to not shoot him ._.

*shrug*

I'll shoot him if you want, a GreyICE reaction would be just as wonderful.

I just like it when I prove others wrong, it's satisfying.

[SlumberPartyBois]

Yeah, GreyICE is a fine compromise. If you think GreyICE is scummier than MoI, I say go for it.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

Actually think Stefans "Coming from QT" is much more likely him being town than scum, don't think he'd ever consider actually saying something like that as mafia whereas as town he'd be more lax about it and the QT he's referring to is very clearly the QT where bids and items are done by Magua, we turned out hydra QT into the very thing and I'm going to take a punt and guess that scum are actually using their normal QT as their topic thus not needing an extra. Empire says he's done a lot of meta research into Pere in the past and I've done a little and thus far his setup spec posts have been nice and detailed which match what we know of his town play, as scum he freezes up quite a bit more. Feeling like when a few more people post we should be able to PoE this fairly well.

I'm not seeing the scum-reads on GI and MoI, I dislike a lot of MoI's reads but I find them very standard what I know from him, he tends to gravitate towards suspecting weakerish players early in the game as town and his reads list matches that exact thing, not backing a day-vig on him at all, want to see him post a lot more and think he should be a lot easier to read then. And not fully seeing the scum-read on GI, finding him very null but know that Empire has some paranoia about him at the moment. I've seen him start early games fairly poorly as town before example being Micro 10 it usually takes him a few days for his reads to settle down as he's initially all over the place. His plan to have roleblocker claim is heavily flawed but he's exactly right about organization being needed in this setup if we want a real chance of actually winning any decent items consistently and using them beneficently. I'd second that I'd like to hear what his reasoning for what his Sala read was initially but not going back to it in a 20ish player game where new information is consistently added isn't much of a scum-tell.

MoI, we ended up spending quite a bit of time discussing extra vote / governor actually and we worked out that extra vote probably cannot bring up lylo unless there's an incredibly high number of mafia however governor can regardless of how many mafia there is. Governor being unable to self-govern is one thing but if scum were to govern a partner that was getting run up in lylo then we'd have to hunt elsewhere and thus it massively increases the chances that we'd lose at the point, it's why we decided it's better if we buy it and burn it early on to not to have to worry about it. Also re; Town-Read on Voided I don't think its' easy for someone to come in and blatantly lie about what they bid on right-of-the-bat, it comes across as super genuine.

Tammy since this wall-war is getting way out of hand I'll try and summarize my response to Post 155, Post 159 and Post 160. 1/2) I think your reaction to Matt was instinctual, you wanted to react quickly and I think as scum you wouldn't have many options but to hope for the best when stating 'someone else can read me better!' and pray that I misread you. Turn it on the flip side though, you're stating as mafia you'd do something different, what would your response be to Matt as scum? 3) Regfork is/was an insult, don't know if that's exactly what you were intending it to be but if you read the dead qt of that game Mina didn't use it 'jokingly' at all. 5) Some questions can lead towards relevant alignment determining information, others just lead towards player-style information, the question you directed to Sala is pretty much asking him why he's curious about peoples thoughts on him and if you've read a game or two of his he does a similar thing every game, it's not a tell for him and his response won't lead to anything real beneficial. 6) Yes, I don't remember any game where you've had 'no' or 'little' early game reads, if you can think of a few of the top of your head preferably on mafiascum and not westeroes then I'd really love for you to link me to them, you don't need to spend hours but I just need to know that you not attempting to scumhunt isn't a big scum-tell from you. 7) I don't fully understand what you're trying to say here, why didn't you jump on 'which' question? And the 'ask someone useless question' 'construe answer to be a scum-tell' is a highly common way of people moving onto wagons.

[Tazaro]

I'm not seeing the scum-reads on GI and MoI.

You did not name Seanald.
If Seanald dies we lynch another person. GG

[Gentlemen Bastards]

You did not name Seanald.

I have a scum-read on Seanald, no issue with him being vig-shot whatsoever.

[BBmolla]

Shoot me with your imaginary gun, bro~

I do think this means he's more than likely town though. Even if he doesn't believe me, taking it to this extreme displays a total lack of care about his life, implying town. I feel like as scum he'd also be able to guess the setup better and would possibly even believe me, I mean if I have a dayvig then scum probably have some sort of power themselves. Sooooooo.

In regards to MoI, he's playing fairly much the same as always. I guess I'd understand a policy shot on him, but I don't see anything scummy from him to warrant a shot.

I don't understand the Town-VM reads, his attitude towards me is exceedingly aggressive and his tone in general bugs me. His posts seem so calculated.

I'm shooting tonight, give me a bit to figure out who.

[Salamence20]

EVERYONE STOP.

We put Seanald at L-1.
We decide on who to vig between MOI/ICE.
We vig
We lynch
We get money and BBM is conftown.

Lets get to it. Time is money.

[Salamence20]

VOTE: Seanald

[Gentlemen Bastards]

I'd rather you withheld shooting for a bit longer if you're not planning on shooting Seanald. There's still too many players with little to no content here.

Sala, rushing for an extra $5-$10 is not worth it.

[BBmolla]

GB I have no money it is for me

[BBmolla]

Also, I have a town read on Salamence and Mehdi.

I have a "wat" read on greygnarl.

VOTE: BBmolla
Kill the miller and we get money faster. He's a liability that needs to die.

BBmiller you there?

All this makes me think about is Please Respond. Greygnarl why was it so important for me to address your vote?

I'm guessing at least one of you played this before. Would it be correct to assume that scum has access to more money then town? Not as a whole but rather that each scum gets a bigger chunk of the pie then each town?

I wanted to say this implied town, but I actually don't know how the scum's shit works. If he's correct, he's more than likely scum, if he's wrong, he's probably town.

You

believe

we're all vanilla. If BB says he is joking then I'll remove my vote. Other people know how the efficiency bonus works I see.

BB just fucked the thread by doing somethin very untown. If he says he was joking then fuck him. Suspicion will remain and the WIFOM will be endless.

Claiming when I'm miller is untown
wat

He's trolling like in his meta but he's really just trying to drag the day out.

Pedit by way of posting because I'm on my phone: @gentlemen If Magua confirms it then I'll be happy.

Is everybody vanilla Mag

Eh, he's probably derptown.

Tazaro could be scum.

Defender is Seanald's buddy.

[Gentlemen Bastards]

In summary I'm pretty much at the below right now, (?) marks mean need to discuss with Empire later today.

Town (S->W):

Voided, Mehdi, The Bois, Stefan, Sala, Pere, Molla, [Gap], Greygnarl, Guile (?).

Null:

Elmo, MoI, Phillammon, Pitty, GreyICE, Eidolon, Tazaro (?).

Scum (S->W):

Tammy (?), Seanald, [Gap], D3f3nd3r.

D3f3nd3r, if you thought Stefan had scumslipped why didn't you place down a vote on him?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Peregrine

– I’ll look at those in a bit. Thanks.

--

@Sala

– I asked you a question. Why are you dodging it. To refresh your memory …

What is your read on the PartyBois?

--

You on the other hand are a very analitical player. You don't miss thinks like that a lot of players could have QT in this game. You would take that option I think. No way MoI doesn't use or doesn't try to use any information he has to his fullest benefit.

And that was never meaned as anythink other than a trap for mafia. I thought town would knew what Sal posted imidiatly. (Neighborizer as townpower is somethink that I don't even like that much)

This makes me scratch my head. Why exactly should I expect ‘lots of players’ outside of scum and the Neighborizor ability (which I don’t think even can have been used at this point) to have QTs? If Grey / Gentlemen are to be believed the last game was effectively Vanilla. Not a lot of other reasons outside of the two groups I mentioned to have a QT. I’m curious why you thought that at all.

--

Trying to RVS at this point?

You're better than this, Elmo.

Why are you assuming a vote for the leading wagon is RVS and playfully slapping Elmo on the wrist Voided?

What bad point?

And move on, will ya? I have more posts than that at Page 7.

That Governor can move up LYLO a Day. And why should I disregard a post I find scummy simply because you have made other posts again?

But his townread isn't based on just that I did that?

It’s the classic “Don’t bury the lead” journalism standard – you put your strongest point at the very front of the story. In this case he chose to highlight as the strongest reason you are Town a point that is not even remotely alignment indicative.

--

If I shoot MoI I don't get to see his reaction when he's wrong.

Frankly I’m just waiting for you to put an end to the charade.

--

I dislike a lot of MoI's reads but I find them very standard what I know from him, he tends to gravitate towards suspecting weakerish players early in the game as town and his reads list matches that exact thing, not backing a day-vig on him at all, want to see him post a lot more and think he should be a lot easier to read then.

I’d like you to lay out who are said ‘weaker players’ so I can assess the viability of this as a Town-based statement.

MoI, we ended up spending quite a bit of time discussing extra vote / governor actually and we worked out that extra vote probably cannot bring up lylo unless there's an incredibly high number of mafia however governor can regardless of how many mafia there is. Governor being unable to self-govern is one thing but if scum were to govern a partner that was getting run up in lylo then we'd have to hunt elsewhere and thus it massively increases the chances that we'd lose at the point, it's why we decided it's better if we buy it and burn it early on to not to have to worry about it. Also re; Town-

Read on Voided I don't think its' easy for someone to come in and blatantly lie about what they bid on right-of-the-bat, it comes across as super genuine.

Firstly – no … you are wrong. Scum governing a partner does nothing to move up LYLO. The Governor ability prevents a SINGLE player from not being lynched in a Day. The only way it could accelerate LYLO is if multiple scum possessed the Govern ability and cross-used it. And even then it would only accelerate it if every scum could be covered. Massively increasing the chances I think is a gross overstatement (especially since someone scummy being Governed means we have working connections to the rest of his team) and still does not make the statement in question correct.

If you specifically discussed the "Extra Vote Can't" with your partner why was it posted in thread.

In regards to the bolded – I disagree completely. Then again I think it is well known I find Town-tells to be pretty ludicrous most of the time so I hardly find this conflict in our opinions unusual.

[BBmolla]

@Mehdi and all disbelievers: What would I do if I actually was a miller with a dayvig and how would it be different than my play here.

@MoI