Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[StefanB]

Coming from my quicktopic and have 7 pages to read. Arrgh!!!
Okay, have skimmed.
I don't have won anythink that needs claiming. (not the investigation imunity) Anythink that I am not aware of, that hasn't been claimed but were you need my claim?

[StefanB]

Sala: You didn't have to give that away quite so early.
So Defender, does Magua like me more than you or why did you forget that?

Moi: Curious reaction. Comment?

[StefanB]

MoI okay that answered the question.
Your posting was curious, because it left your options open. I didn't know if you were just letting this go on and helping me or went in the this is scummy line.
That was reactionfishing, yes.
Defenders reaction was plain scummy.

You on the other hand are a very analitical player. You don't miss thinks like that a lot of players could have QT in this game. You would take that option I think. No way MoI doesn't use or doesn't try to use any information he has to his fullest benefit.

And that was never meaned as anythink other than a trap for mafia. I thought town would knew what Sal posted imidiatly. (Neighborizer as townpower is somethink that I don't even like that much)

So yeah both you and Defender deserve probing and I think I did this.

But 186 is from you MoI nearly a scumclaim.

Vote: MoI

[StefanB]

Coming from my quicktopic and have 7 pages to read. Arrgh!!!
Okay, have skimmed.
I don't have won anythink that needs claiming. (not the investigation imunity) Anythink that I am not aware of, that hasn't been claimed but were you need my claim?

Coming from my quicktopic

and have 7 pages to read. Arrgh!!!

Really?

Ok. Gonna look into the large wagons.

Also, I think that seven pages in a large normal is too little for set town-scum reads. I also find interesting the lack of a large RVS.

Seanald first:
73: Lots of meta work. Tammy's self meta, and stuff based on Mehdi, Matt, and Sala.
92: He unvotes Tammy for something that would probably earn my vote on Tammy.
93-94, 97: Meh. Nothing at all scum.

Now Tammy:
Lots of talk, not much content. I wanna see more from you that helps.

@SlumberPartyBois: I'm convinced I've heard the first part of 45 out of your mouth before.

@Stephan: Scumslip much?

That isnt a scumslip guys. You can request QTs.

Sala: You didn't have to give that away quite so early.
So Defender, does Magua like me more than you or why did you forget that?

Moi: Curious reaction. Comment?

Voided, what is unclear from there? 186 and 190 as continue.

[StefanB]

Slumber, Sala: MoI has to die he is scum!!!!

Seanald I can see where it comes from.

But what is the GreyIcecase what am I missing?

[StefanB]

Read that, thought again and headdesk, why am I believing BBMolla right now?
Why is MoIs as scum beeing ignore, why not more votes, impresions...

[StefanB]

MoI:

As far as I know, every player was offered a QT because mechanics. (only between them and the mod)

So how the hell could townMoI miss that???? MOI!!!!!!!

You are scum.

Thanks for proving my point.

[StefanB]

I don't have the oracle.

I disagree that nightkill should claim.

Roleblock perhaps.

Okay Grey even if BB is a Sk (and this one is a big if considering his play) how is he a good lynch today?
We don't need the SK dead now. Let Mafia take care of it. At the moment he is usful for town.

Btw I have played with a bulletprove miller who could become a vig. And this was the role!!! And you can take 3 guises on the Mod.


MoIs iso:
Gentlemen and GreyIce are not scumpartners of MoI from his opening.
Sealid I don't think so from what I know about MoIs scumgame.

Sala is town. (perhaps unrealated)

No idea of scumpartners in MoIs ISO.

So the leadwagon is someone scum wanted dead.

Vote: Defender

I wanted MoI dead because he is more dangerous as scum than other players. I disagree that that was luck. Thanks BB.
Defender missing the quicktopic is not so telling like MoI.
I don't like Voided, but can't exactly pinpoint it.

I played with MoI scum also and we won with all scum alive.

[StefanB]

Okay, that is a good argument.
I am still thinking to normal.
I have neither the nightkill nor the roleblook.

[StefanB]

I played with him as scum. Scumvictory flavless.
Read another game of him, all his scumbuddys did survive.

From personal experience bussing is not his first reaction. We are in a multible scum game. (from the flip and from the mini that came before) MoI knowing this, would hunt for the other scumteam, perhaps go with an easy mislynch.

Going for his scumbuddy that early is not normal for him.

And Defender was scumslip ahoy. So there should be a scumflip there.

[StefanB]

I will bid on the tracker (if we get one), hope this is okay.

[StefanB]

Thinks we don't want in scumhands:
Targeted vote blocker (target+player=target can't vote player)
Vig shot

StefanB

Four counts of untrackable and/or unwatchable Master of Ninjitsu Arts
Three counts sartor, who is really a fake investigation results giver

From the nice think I think a priority:
Stalker

Nice thinks
Two counts of auction investigator (auction+player=did they get it?)
Three counts of Sixth Sense (if target dies, get to talk to them)
Two counts of follower (where did they go?, but not what they do)
Stalker (eyeball a player, who visits them?)

Thinks I don't understands:
Two counts of banker (how much $$$?)

So we want people, who bide on the first group and I think on Stalker: I will try to get the vigkill, if this is okay. The vote blocker should be taken and burnt tomorrow.

[StefanB]

Pere: If they want that kill, it will cost them a lot I can promise that.

[StefanB]

Defender:

I want the nightkill out of scum hands. And well it is the most fun of the scumabilitys.
Nethertheless I could bind on somethink other if needed. That was a sugestion and a start to organise.

Or was the question, why we want the kill for town?

[StefanB]

Advertising should be either on cop or oracle, I am okay with Seanald advertising.

[StefanB]

The plan is good. Even if scum is on the list, we have other means to get them.

Guile: Who would you exclude, switching someone?

Eidolon: I think you just voluntered for a full claim, and a fast one, please.

[StefanB]

Yeah while their is a bigger chance that scum recievs money, it it more risky to bring all toys into one basket.

Grey: Why governer and not somethink more usful? If you want somethink more provable Neighborizer were we would chose the target would be somethink I am more confortable than governer.

Bois: Mehdi doesn't get money because she requested it, she can do with hers, what she wants.

This is moving very fast. BB and Eidolon have both strange roles. (I can see Magua doing both townroles, he likes to punish outguesing the mod)

[StefanB]

StefanB agrees

[StefanB]

I did not get the nightkill, I only got second place.

Sorry I wanted to reveal how much I had, so I was cryptic yesterday. (and well I promised it would cost scum, that I delivered)
I see no harm in revealing it and some gain.
Scum did beat me, with 1 dollar. I hoped they would crossbind and that would cost them more, so strange they didn't.

At last everythink else should be in the hand of those we wanted. Everythink else went for one dollar.

[StefanB]

Okay start 100
Bind on cop 51
and roleblocker 49
lost 11
got 100 (would have been 5 more, at the time)
bind 189
(lost 19)

That were the actions.

[StefanB]

Elmo dying is okay.
His only action day 1. Claiming investigation-imunue and biding on extra-vote. (This combo is yuck)
And basicly that's it. We need more Elmo.

We also need the cop and our replacment to show that they are allive.

About the plan, count me were you want me. I screwed up and I am okay with taking any action.

Peregrine
About Blind Bind: Can the one who wins it, choose to not use it, or is it compulsive?

[StefanB]

The mainthink about Elmo is why to bind for investigation immune and extra vote as town?
Investigation Imune is good to keep out of scum hands, but if you know you are often considered scummy, you know that you are not a good person to get it.
And extra vote good for a townleader and good for someone who exspects to be active but why did Elmo think that would be a great role to have.
To have both as scum, good.
Why did he claim it, is another question, but that may be WIFOM.

Vote Elmo

About Sean: As long as we keep NBR out of scumhands the cop is not usful for them.

[StefanB]

Feal bad about lynching a new player and hello Nero and callforjudgement and Shamrock(Grey), but CFJ is in an interesting spot.
Will burn the votefrezer tomorrow, if the lynch is very secure or someone goes VLA for a long time or anyone who is okay with freezing their vote.

[StefanB]

Unvote

: Still wished the slot wasn't invistigation imunue and I this beeing out of the game would have been good, but Elmo beeing an idiot is a big chance.

Hm, will look trough stuff now.

Rereading Grey it was probably good he replaced out, but I don't get a scumfealing from him here, more anoyed town (for Grey).

Sorry I don't have so much time and energy for this game at the moment.

P-edit: Scum has a plan with Neighborizer, if both teams used, one for nightkill the other for advertising.

Everythink else went for 1 $.

[StefanB]

Tazaro: I can't read minds, but scum used 190 for the nk and advertised.
I believe it was stated by Peregrine a lot.
Everythink else went for 1 $.
It actually means that Mehdi (claimed Neighborizer) is more likly town. (Why would scum need that if they already have neighborizer Mehdi?) among other thinks.
I think her obvioustown maisonplan is the better one, if scum is in danger of getting it. (No revealing why at the moment)

[StefanB]

On point against scum Peregrine is:
What did scumteam 2 with the money? Only invest?

[StefanB]

Mehdi:
About your plan.
1. I think oracle is even more important than tracker, we will go into the auctions tomorrow blind.
2. Why is it important to advertise another abbility today and not tomorrow?
3. Vote Frezer is to damm dangerous to give it to scum.
4. About advertising I just realised somethink. As long as we agree on what we advertise, more than one player can advetrtise, I believe.

Magua: If player A binds 10 on cop and player B binds 20 on cop, it would count as 30 as cop, right?

[StefanB]

Okay, to make it more clear.
1. Oracle vs tracker: We don't have the oracle anymore (2-shot) and this is the reason we should advertise it.
2. Advertising tonight: We have money on cop. As long as we advertise on tracker or oracle we have the problem, that we shouldn't overdue it to get cop so let's say 10 on tracker today, vs 10 on tracker tomorrow, what is the difference?
3. Votefreezer: We have someone who binds on that, and town burns it tomorrow. This is 100%, this is an ability that should be accounted for and out of the game. (I have seen acidently hammers, with an outed town doublevoter and lylo is at last one of the problems here)
4. Well it is a posibility tonight, if we think that we could need more on cop and don't want to loose that. I don't say we should have multible players advertising. I say that if we want to advertise tonight, we should be thinking about strengen that what we allready have.

[StefanB]

Tazaro?
Sorry don't understand your question.

[StefanB]

I don't think you can freeze past hammer.
I won't count on me beeing online past hammer. (statistic)

If that is about the acidential hammer:
A is at L-1
B is on A and gets frozen.
Magua isn't online
B unvotes
C votes A
Hammer.

Posible.

[StefanB]

Shrug, don't think that should play a role.
I don't want to force someone.
Basicly it should be used so it doesn't play a big role. (Not as punishment)
I am more in the thinking burn it openly.
So I don't see any need to have a not freeze Voidmafiarule.
Sorry the whole think is "That is unimportant." in my mind.

[StefanB]

Hm, Shamrock is really not here.
Since we need a lynch

Vote: Shamrock

L-1
Having a mild metaread is not enough and nothink else is getting of.

Tazaro

, I got a fake feel about his last posts.

What was that about no frezzing a previous hammerer, can you tell me why?
I mean what was the point?
And why do you think that a lot of people are failing statistic (every newbie should learn that alligment in other games is null, so huh

[StefanB]

Oh, get's it.
Tazaro: The votefrezer only works like this:
a person votes x
freezer
votes x for the rest of the day.
Doesn't work for more than a day.
And we will be informed when a unvote doesn't work. (Latest by the votecount, should look again if the freeze is anouced in tread)
(This is how I think a votefreezer works)

All

Should I advertise watcher or oracle, what do we need more? Feedback welcome.

Grey: I think I should be advertising, so there is advertising, I don't have the point myself (and to get Nero in the game)

[StefanB]

Okay, if I don't hear from anone else except Mehdi or Callforjudgement I will advertise Oracle.
I don't consider watcher week, but you realise, that if scum lose the nk it is not so usful.
And Oracle is damm usful.
P-Edit: 3 votes oracle and I want to advertise Oracle. (Sorry, that is my personal feeling)

[StefanB]

I think investigate who you want. (Personal I would use it on people you are more on the fance with, not sure if scum or town.
(Tazaro would be seen as this for example)
Or someone who has abilitys that are scarry in scumhands. (Would be greygnarl for example or Mehdi if you believe she is scummy)

Grey

: A best use for Tailor is probably BBMolla, he is claimed miller, no efect.

[StefanB]

Yeah hammer and last chance to get out if you want watcher or oracle.

[StefanB]

Okay, I did read quickly.
I got 209 $ from Pitty. (Transfer)
Oracle was advertised.

And about the post I did just read.
Sean and Deas: Argh, that were dumb actions.

Grey: Did I understand that right, that you couldn't chance BBMollas alligment because imposible results?
That would confirm him as town!

That means that Peregrine did advertise on cop, as planned Night 1.

Sal was town imho, so N is town.

If their is a SK in the stranger claim group it is Deas I believe.

Sorry tired, so no more.

[StefanB]

@All: If DV is groupscum, there is no QT so he and Sean can't be from different teams.
Doesn't mean that they didn't fake it, if they are scum together.
I don't see any townreason to neighborize the scum cop.

SK has a motivation.

So from that, I give DV town the lowest posibility.
No abbilitys for you.

Sean: You have still a chance to get the SK lynched or distance yourself. (2089 is a confirmation of the QT from Sean, so there is no turning bad) Want to paraphrase your thoughts, scumhunting.

Vote: Tazaro

Tazaro

: You have now a mission, get your reads out. Convince me why you are derp town and not desperate scum, because that selfvote looks completly fake. And giving me a reason, why not to lynch your selfvoter. (Lynch all selfvoters is totally policity)

And if aren't scum, any plan to not make everyone hate you postgame.

[StefanB]

And Peregrine, we are not risking the cop for "scum will not fight this, if we bid low."
The cop is to important for that!!!
I want to scream at a lot of people and ask them if they want to claim scum or are just completly insane.
Tazaro (seensless spamming comes after that), Sean, Peregrine and DV are on that list. (List from WTF are you doing, are you insane????? to perhaps only mindblowing stupid)
So this people have work to do.

Perhaps a special shoutout goes to Peregrine: I know you. You make normally more sense. You are far from a VI, what was that for a stupid antitown plan?

[StefanB]

So why the vote, why the 2 usless post?
Well the reads are not that great usful.
Phil and then Mehdi are your greatest townreads right?

If you are town, can you please try to play to win?

[StefanB]

Scumclaim makes the most sense.
I give to much of a doubt often.
Anyone want to chance anythink on the plan, like make certain exceptions to the roles, like if ability a is somethink like x Stefan should not bind on it, but N should for example.

PEdit:

Tazaro: Town can win after lynching me.

That is true, somethink I do believe. Wining after your lynch is easier, should I thank you for making that lynch easy?

[StefanB]

Wining after your lynch is easier, should I thank you for making that lynch easy?

Would you want to thank me even after my flipping town?

I am not currently thinking about that imho low posibility.
I think I made it clear that in this very unlikly case their will be no thanks, but post game drama and anger.

[StefanB]

Tazaro: At the moment I want you to flip scum.
You can't be that bad that you have to be if you would be town.

About your list, am I correct that you are voting a null, slight scum read now???

[StefanB]

Vote Tazaro

If my vote before was to much hyden.
Hammer that reaction is not town.
Tazaro: I am very optimistic that I don't have to call you out post game for beeing a very bad VI and the bad b-word, will be left unspoken.
Is there anyone one, not votting Taz??

[StefanB]

Tazaro: Die in peace.

[StefanB]

You are okay with me not understanding your motivation, but with post 2447, I give up completly.

[StefanB]

DV: You had to ask?

[StefanB]

I have to say Tazaro last pages was funny.
Town plays different.

[StefanB]

Okay got 75 from day 2, (which isn't so important after checking who did the transfer) won roleblocker.
(2nd dublicate)
Will not use that at the moment. (scum has acount everythink else is used or in hands we know of or messanger, which I can't block)
About DV, what could be a lie?
He is not a mafiamember, if on of his actions is true. (That means he can only be a mafiamember with SPBs, nope insane gamble)
He is a SK faking a guilty makes no sense.

So what is Pitty seling us? The Tailor? Won by confirmed town Greygnarl.
So consider my vote here.

Pitty is scum.

[StefanB]

Okay, then the theory is that Sean coped Guile and got a guilty but did say it was inocent.
Or did he never have the cop?

I don't like Guiles play one bit, but call it a bad feeling.

Pere: If you could activate Oracle every time, why did you wait so long on day 1?

I have commuter and I have the roleblock at the moment.

Guile any last words suspects, action you took...

[StefanB]

Okay 2 are uninteresting.

Blind Bind (not use) and self-watcher (not much use)

The other 4 we want.

[StefanB]

Vote: Guile

L-2
No townreaction and good arguments. I am still a bit unsure, but I also think that town-Guile would try to do somethink. (It's not as bad as Tazarro was playing before the lynch, but hello, last chance and all?)

About the gravediger I am hopfull I can win. Not 100% sure, but I should win this.

[StefanB]

Unvote

We didn't want to speedlynch, yet I think. We wanted Guile at L-2.
Investigating Peregrine is fine.
Why is everyone so fine with dying? Guile and Philemon?

[StefanB]

About the mafianumbers speculation.
Magua is normally not someone who builds big number scumteams.
Secret Societymafia had 3:3:1 (the one could win with both teams, with 25 players)
Okay the MPmafia1 had 2:2:1, but we have here two mafiateams the can win together.
I believe 3:3 (perhaps 1 SK).

If CfJ math is right I go further, I can win any bind that I have to. (NK or Gravedigger)

[StefanB]

Guile let's leave out the thinks you can say to save yourself.
Anythink you can say that helps town.

Call: Well we haven't lost to scum in the battles the did choose to fight, so they haven't explosive money.

They are fewer now than before and I think scum did start with more money at the begining. (We also had some early lynches, witch Magua garantied are good for town=

[StefanB]

SPB: About the last think, how did you know that Sean didn't have the cop? (Assumption is there and it made sense that he did made his "results up) Is this confirmed?

About scum having 640 less that I assumed at the start of the day.

[StefanB]

BB: You send 100 and invested some, do I understand that right?

[StefanB]

Yes. Here is a copy of one of the scums rolePMs from the last game stolen from Maguas endpost.

You are a Mafia Cartel Member, along with your partner XXX.

Nest Egg: You start the game with $150.
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive $125. If you are the only member of your team alive, you will instead receive $200.
Efficiency Bonus: You do not receive an efficiency bonus.
Daytalk: You may speak with your partner in the Quicktopic here at any time.
Improved Transfer: You may use the Transfer action (see Section IV) to transfer money to your partner and have it arrive immediately, instead of arriving the next Day. You may also do this at Night. All other normal rules of Transfer (specifically, the 5% fee) still apply.
Under The Table Dealings: At any time, you may give the mod a message; it will be transmitted (anonymously) to all other players who do not have the Town win condition. You know that all win conditions in this game are mutually exclusive (there is no way you can draw or win with anyone else who receives this message).
There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch: You do not possess a factional Night-kill. In order to kill that Night, you must win the Night-kill auction during the Day.
Fakeclaim: The Entrepreneur Role PM is posted in the thread. If you give me specific game information, I will write the relevant PM for you incorporating those elements.

[StefanB]

Okay Phil is consistant in this SPBs scumread.
That is the only think that I am getting.
I don't get why he thinks the SPB is scum. (to agresive??)
Interesting enough he called SPB a mild scumread (weakest of his scumreads) before.
But that doesn't make sense to convice everyone, but now would be the time to bring it at the table, if you are town, Phil.
Nothink more would be interesting as well.

[StefanB]

Well the mesage is just stupid, reactiontesting ????

The problems I have with it, Greygnarl was openly shooting Sean.
The sidebet, is somethink I don't understand.

Sorry Tammy, but I don't think I would have taken it seriosly one moment.

I can't understand why scum would sent somethink like this beside:

1. get suspicion on N.
2. get suspicion or take it away from Peregrine. (that could actually lead to both)

Tammy, taking out N anyone else who could have written the mesage? (some clues in it?)

[StefanB]

You going rouge was somethink I could see as sense of that.
It tell us (once more) there is only one scumteam left or they would use that for comunication.
Tammy (as scum) would have fabricated somethink better.

[StefanB]

I think we are ready to end this day. Will vote tomorrow.

The sender is unlickly Mat (I don't think he would have posted that Greygnarl did not kill Sean, that would be far from his believe imho)

It's not from Voidmafia (stronger argument, Void was in the last game, knows the machanics quite well and the sidebet side is too fucked up)

So from Tammys reads, it would say Phil is the most likly.

Phil and Guile are currently not doing anythink.

[StefanB]

Okay very suprised that MoI missed that part in the rolePM.
So we don't have a talk about unfair play.

Sorry that game was to machanic for me.
Btw I did use one roleblock in the game (last night on Peregrine, just in case)

Matt and Kayne were townMVP.

I think nobody asked in tread who was in the Neighborhood because well everyone except Voided was pretty obvious and we didn't have to know.

[StefanB]

Empire=Satire?
Because if I look at the OP Empire wasn't in the game...
Cool game and good time to retire.

[StefanB]

Deas: I was paranoid that you were the SK.
You turned your slot around and made it easier to win for us, thanks.
Tazarros game before the lynch was really bad.

Another sad note is that game was the reason for Greygnarls ban, but he broke siderules...

[StefanB]

Made a comment in the diskusionforrum, that hinted at this game.
It was only a discusionban for one mouth, so no big drama.

A shoutout to all the townies who were under big suspicion and didn't give up and managed to look pretty town after that: Voidmafia and callforjudgement besides that allready mentioned DeasVail.

I got into the night and thought if Phil doesn't flipp scum and Peregrine (who was more town than scum imho) is inocent, who the hell is scum? Well the easiest answer was the correct one.

[StefanB]

Tazaro: You are lucky that game ended now, I was so angry when you flipped town.

[StefanB]

There is only left missing, please QT. (would be very nice)

[StefanB]

Just a few thinks:

Peregrine: I didn't block you because I thought you were scum, but Tammy was really afraid of the nightkill in scumhands.
So I thought about it.
Blocking Phil the one who looked like scum, he could only kill Tammy and I dead Tammy and a dead scum was victory.
So planning for what happens if we were wrong.
Who would I kill if I were scum and not Phil?
The cop, either to frame Peregrine or because Peregrine a save.
A rolblock here gave a result in case Phil would have been town.
I still think the logic was okay.

About MoI: I disagree that the shot was bad.
The push was in the beginning not sure, hell I called his reaction interesting.
I wasn't sure how to interpret his reaction.
His post afterwards were interesting.
Call it naive but Town-MoI would have played differently.
Checked his role PM again...
And the moment he implied that he was town but didn't get the quicktopicoffer well he was obvious scum.
(Sorry but that doesn't make sense from Magua in this setup and from what I belive of him as mod)
Well the reason that I believed scum didn't know about it, was MoI selling it well.
(Not sure that it helped, strengenth the Sala townread mostly)

About the messplan.
You send 1 $ more. I don't think many players would have checked, that was to little to be noticed unless you were really carefull.
And Callforjudgement wasn't that scummy.
So uh it was to little to have an effect.