NY 159: RUST game over

[Darthe]

why would Zabtown "distance" himself from someone he doesnt know is scum?

why would anything BC(you)town do "implicate" Zab?

these two terms are not sitting right with me.

waiting on an answer from Zab

also

unvote

This post struck me as odd. Consistent defense of Zab and prohawk pings for that as well. Seems like mafia attempting to psuedo-bus, I bet two of the three shift opinions quickly close to lynch.

Vote Zab

. We will see.

[Darthe]

why would

Zabtown

"distance" himself from someone

he doesnt know

is scum?

why would anything

BC(you)town

do "implicate" Zab?

these two terms are not sitting right with me.

waiting on an answer from Zab

also

unvote

This post struck me as odd. Consistent defense of Zab and prohawk pings for that as well. Seems like mafia attempting to psuedo-bus, I bet two of the three shift opinions quickly close to lynch.

Vote Zab

. We will see.

what exactly seems odd? "opinion shift"? you mean me unvoting my random vote?

Bolded above. All are an effect called priming where the individual places words or terms in such a way that it reinforces an opinion. So this leaves two options. You either feel definitively that these two people are town (hence putting it in their name) or the more likely one in five pages is that you are mafia with one of them at least and are attempting to sway us with the subconscious reasoning of free association.

[Darthe]

unvote vote AngryPidgeon

and you are avoiding questions that you know the answer to but dont want to admit...you dont want to say I would probably be town if BC should flip scum. why is that? "blah blah blah scummy questions" or you dont want to admit that you think I am scum no matter any flip...which is obviously bullshit reasoning especially given the reason you "think" I am scum/


ANSWER THE QUESTION, if it makes it easier on you...

in a crazy alternate universe...if BC should flip SCUM, am I still scum..why?

stop stalling...avoiding...or whatever you are doing.

take a stance today...

Well, that was overly defensive. Throw more shit at other players and see if you can gain credibility by making one of them flail! What a perfect plan for anyone anti-town.

[Darthe]

oh wait..

[Darthe]

Avoiding base responses and metagame here I think the recent miller discussion is scummy bullshit. It doesn't matter whether they are town or not, what has happened in previous games based on each of your limited experiences, or how you perceive it. Two millers is extremely unlikely but possible. Two fake claim millers on D1 is a shit gambit for mafia and a waste so very unlikely as well. One miller and one fake claim is much more likely and so probable. Because of the nature of the role neither can be allowed to live til endgame regardless. In essence, pick which one you think is more scumtastic and place your vote where your mouth is. The rest is a continued WIFOM and scummy.

[Darthe]

Avoiding base responses and metagame here I think the recent miller discussion is scummy bullshit. It doesn't matter whether they are town or not, what has happened in previous games based on each of your limited experiences, or how you perceive it. Two millers is extremely unlikely but possible. Two fake claim millers on D1 is a shit gambit for mafia and a waste so very unlikely as well. One miller and one fake claim is much more likely and so probable. Because of the nature of the role neither can be allowed to live til endgame regardless. In essence, pick which one you think is more scumtastic and place your vote where your mouth is. The rest is a continued WIFOM and scummy.

VOTE: Darthe

It may be cow pie to some extent
But it's not scummy.
Explain better why it is, if you can finagle it.

I should truly clarify here, it seems that most individuals here agree that the millers should not make it through this game. Risk management yada yada. Either they explicitly state it or implicitly do so through a vote. So if you don't intend to allow something to happen then seem to be leaving it to happen... why? Disparity in actions = non-town play. That isn't a change of mind, it is contrary action to spoken intent. Hence, place your vote where your mouth is. How did that warrant a vote btw?

[Darthe]

Did you just admit to being scum?

[Darthe]

If you are town you are flailing an awful lot all of a sudden. I have no meta on you so I will ask others.. Is this how pissedoffbird usually plays?

[Darthe]

This needs like way more votes

Remind me again what was pingy in there? Perhaps I am mistaken but all of your plays at me so far have essentially been a reply to my asking about your scummy arse slip earlier. Still not seein' what you're trying to get at here.

Btw, weaksauce sheep vote from BC (etc) is why he can't sell his credibility for a nickle to his own family.

[Darthe]

I still see Zab as a good choice.

[Darthe]

Drmy certainly got off track fast from the last time I was here. Has your list changed entirely?? I find it amazing that I gained FoS's and have made it on scum lists for things that I haven't done more than things I have. The best that has been said is "hey, this guy's scummy" but has a single person provided a reason beyond the base "your posts are pingy"? Nope.

In any case, I could care less about the pings. Malp is somewhat pingy, I would rather him die than BC for sure. Zab is still LLL. Taz seems odd but idk him so maybe he is just an odd ass person. Pidgeon is still ruffling his feathers. When is the last time you actually contributed in a way that was helpful to the town?

I have a town read on drmy, bc, cheerydog, and rob and a null on the rest of you. CKD and Dcore are wildcard.

[Darthe]

Something got fucked with #432

You talk too fucking much. Put your shit together and stop filling the board with useless clutter.

[Darthe]

Drmy certainly got off track fast from the last time I was here. Has your list changed entirely?? I find it amazing that I gained FoS's and have made it on scum lists for things that I haven't done more than things I have. The best that has been said is "hey, this guy's scummy" but has a single person provided a reason beyond the base "your posts are pingy"? Nope.

In any case, I could care less about the pings. Malp is somewhat pingy, I would rather him die than BC for sure. Zab is still LLL. Taz seems odd but idk him so maybe he is just an odd ass person. Pidgeon is still ruffling his feathers. When is the last time you actually contributed in a way that was helpful to the town?

I have a town read on drmy, bc, cheerydog, and rob and a null on the rest of you. CKD and Dcore are wildcard.

Why the fuck do you have Townread on me little Vader?? HMMMMMMMMMMMM???

Good for you

Okay so honestly I appreciate the talking. IMO its pretty pro-town to get your thoughts out there. That said, you've been everywhere so I wanted to test the waters and your response wasnt pingy so... like I said, good for you! This is the kind of reason I have a town read on you.

[Darthe]

predicted: dcore flips town, zab and prohawk are LLL and flip scum.

[Darthe]

Taz you are jumpier than a frog in a fire. And your votes make no sense. Why the pressure to lynch an uncc'd cop? Why the pressure for me to insta-hammer with a week left? You, sir, deserve a big fat FoS

[Darthe]

I don't want one. The claim, while semi-suspect, gives him a day or two IMO. No sense in trying to speed lynch someone who has that claim though.

[Darthe]

If it is number one then it doesn't matter what day it is and we gain more info today because he is dead anyhow.

If it is number two then the real cop reveals. Two scum down in a stupid ass gambit? Yes please.

If it is number three we still get a mafia and he dies regardless. Last I checked this is a numbers game. He has to get at least three people killed to be equivalent and four to do well assuming 4 mafiaz in a 16 player game. So..? Not seeing your point here.

[Darthe]

we have other, less risky scum leads. You're fear mongering acting like we are going to kill a townie if we do not lynch him today. Why so eager to lynch a cop claim? Also someone is dying tonight regardless (excluding doc protection) so that is entirely invalid.

[Darthe]

god can we just fucking finish lynching dc already?

No.

[Darthe]

Fuck it, this can be an info lynch.

unvote vote Dcore

[Darthe]

Perhaps people will lynch me tonight for this. Or maybe the mafia will kill me tonight to create WIFOM (would be a dumb mafia). Personally I found it hillarious that angrypidgeon was able to fuss enough that people didn't vote him and believed him calling me scummy and then Dcore comes back and says something that is most likely not a scum slip and his train built for it. I bet money he is town and when he flips it we all can analyze the train for easy votes. L-1 is weak shit where I come from and basically is day over anyhow. What is the point in waiting on it or adding stupid reasons?


Also, since I have never had night here I have to ask: Do you guys continue playing and casing at night? Because we always have.

[Darthe]

Shit you literally cannot post here =/ that sucks. Also no Whyme Fryme so stupid use of meme.

[Darthe]

Hello everyone, this seems to have been a good night. I am glad to have my suspicions of Zab confirmed and have to agree that an SK seems more likely than a Vig to me at this point. For now,

vote BC

in the interest of competing trains.

[Darthe]

Where I come from we call people like angrybirds "Horses" because they always have blinders on.

[Darthe]

Hello everyone, this seems to have been a good night. I am glad to have my suspicions of Zab confirmed and have to agree that an SK seems more likely than a Vig to me at this point. For now,

vote BC

in the interest of competing trains.

Here is why this is scummy:

First of all, Darthe is clearly new. And this post has 2 awesome scumtells in it that new players tend to commit.

1. Talking about how well the night went.
2. Assuming that Zabriel died to an SK and not vig. I mean come on you had Zabriel as a suspect and so did several people, so why is a vig unlikely??

Also, that Blood Covenent vote's justification is "competing trains". What. We are like a few hours into D2, why place such a forced vote.

Meh, how long have you been playing? I have for over a year and a half. No town death, mafia doc gone, several viewings claimed from players I have town reads on = good night. Here is why AngryPidgeon is scummy. The discussion about an SK vs a Vig killing Zab was brought up today by several others who he completely neglected to mention for it. Technically both topics were. Yet note that he pushes for the relative easy lynch and generally sheeps the towniest of players so far in game.

Besides that, a competing train is necessary to assure game flow. Thinking past the base "well he dar is a scummy guy" the matter stands that BC had too few votes for the FoS's directed at him and that malp gained votes too quickly to not be forced. Ie: less forced voting in exploring other options. Watch your trains kid, nothing like good old vote analysis. And with two scum revealed I just bet I can find a few more in the patterns.

Gimme a few seconds to quote the VC's. Also, is it just me or is this game sort of slow? The one I am in over on DM just passed 100 pages and its been up a week and a half.

[Darthe]

Oh, I do not think the slowness (or speed) of the game has anything to do with Angry being mafia, those were unrelated. Also, gotta agree with you about the miller thing rofl.

[Darthe]

Watch your trains kid, nothing like good old vote analysis. And with two scum revealed I just bet I can find a few more in the patterns.

I hope youre ready to make a "holy shit AP busses the shit out his buddies" case on me.

Ya, you go do that.

You realize you would have to do the same on me right? I was on Zab all day and in the end switched to DC...

[Darthe]

I should mention two things. One, the watcher who said I did something to San is lying because I'm vanilla . Two, this train is forced as fuck.

[Darthe]

Or, and this one is crazy, I am VT and you're all sheeping the PC.

[Darthe]

I think yes. Well played Taz.

[Darthe]

Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

[Darthe]

Furthermore

@ Darthe, if you thought taz was lying, why didn’t you vote him?

Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

at least two people(malp and humourously enough AP) questioned your intentions as two why you didnt vote taz if you thought he was lying.

what is the answer?

and why have you chosen not to address them?

I have in my notes that on mafiascum people seem to vote first and think second. Now, the way I have always played elsewhere a vote is a pretty big deal and voting without enough cause or before exploring your options and putting out thoughts is considered a GIGANTIC scum tell. So, as with angrypidgeon when he made what I thought could be a slip, I refrain from voting until I see something clearly worth voting for or until I value the information that can be gleaned from a vote. Of course, understanding this will require you all to know a bit more about me and the group I play with. Mafia was invented by psychologists. I, as it so happens, am a psychologist IRL who is rising grad school. That is the main group that I play with. Hence..--> I try and learn the facts before using my only real power.. my vote. If I had a role, I would play differently.

[Darthe]

Furthermore

@ Darthe, if you thought taz was lying, why didn’t you vote him?

Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

at least two people(malp and humourously enough AP) questioned your intentions as two why you didnt vote taz if you thought he was lying.

what is the answer?

and why have you chosen not to address them?

I have in my notes that on mafiascum people seem to vote first and think second. Now, the way I have always played elsewhere a vote is a pretty big deal and voting without enough cause or before exploring your options and putting out thoughts is considered a GIGANTIC scum tell. So, as with angrypidgeon when he made what I thought could be a slip, I refrain from voting until I see something clearly worth voting for or until I value the information that can be gleaned from a vote. Of course, understanding this will require you all to know a bit more about me and the group I play with. Mafia was invented by psychologists. I, as it so happens, am a psychologist IRL who is rising grad school. That is the main group that I play with. Hence..--> I try and learn the facts before using my only real power.. my vote. If I had a role, I would play differently.

Waffle, waffle, psychology major.

Its CKD/Darthe.

Translation: Ignore the important parts and point out the relatively useless personal information, AKA reaction baiting. Are you still voting me bird?

[Darthe]

UNVOTE: darthe
VOTE: blood

back to lynching the

miller

then.

I also don't like Prohawk's new post at all.

That plan sounds good to me.

UNVOTE: bc
VOTE: darthe

Interesting.
Useless post I know, but I can't think straight lying down.

Massclaiming should not happen any more than it already has, we still have 12 people who have not claimed, and I believe it is best to keep it that way for now.

I was going to come vote BC and be happy to lynch a

miller

today, but Darthe has stepped the over the line with that post (705) and voting just for competing wagons doesn't sound like a very good choice for a voteplacement.

but then again I just looked back at the votecounts, I do have to wonder why he would have been bussing two of his partners during day 1. (zab all day and then DC with the hammer for

information

)

I think I'd be fine with either of those two for today, but I'm going to go ahead and
VOTE: BloodConvenent

If he is one of the people taz saw visiting zab, I could definitely see him being a SK.

If Demon=cop, scum is Rob, zab, Josh at least

Why Rob?

anyone can look scummy when you read them in ISO. You can always nit-pick and misinterpret shit.

You are agreeing though since your vote just went that direction

Though you are correct that just an ISO leads to confirmation bias.

or vanilla townie, but then that's not actually a counterclaim unless you know there is only one VT in game, but then that would be role madness.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Demon Core

back to this vote, it has a much better chance than drmy for flipping scum.

I'm not seeing CKD as scum but the rest of Rob's list looks quite possible to me.

This guy goes with the flow far too much. I think a bit of pressure here is warranted, where is some decent contribution? Also, these are in opposite order because I am lazy.

[Darthe]

For the record, Darthe, your psychology crap is an appeal to authority, and a bad one at that. A psychologist is not automatically better at the mechanics of the game (i.e. the vote) because the game was made by a set of different psychologists. That's like saying men are better at using electricity because a man discovered it.

Lol my apologies if it came off that way, it was not intended to point out something illogical to that effect, simply to say that our group in general pays a lot more attention to things that most don't consider scummy such as sentence structure, tone, and etc. Obviously this is limited online and I cannot rely on facial expressions or inflection but it is still, in my opinion, useful background information and worth note. Doubly so since you all have no other meta on me. I could link a couple of games where I was town and mafia online too I suppose.

@ AngryPidgeon, I have yet to accuse you of anything.

[Darthe]

Cheery is super obvtown.

What do you think about CKD's last wall?

No, Cheery is super obvagreeable. Which is different and scummy because with 2 down the mafia team needs agreeable.

Inversely, while CKD is def. reaction testing and wasting a shit load of time/space trying to case you or Taz he is creating too many waves for a smart mafia player atm. He seems overly aggressive. More on this in a sec.

[Darthe]

I am already voting BC as I have been all day if I recall correctly. It is the obvious choice. The rest is just discussion to keep today from being a speedlynch or equivalent info-wise. That BC hasn't spoken up reaffirms that we are probably on the right track. Gotta admit though, CKD refusing to claim, baiting a vig kill etc is anti-town. It can be reverse psychology (IE: he is mafia trying not to die), townie whining because he thinks he is dead, simply for the purpose of creating this WIFOM, or newbie earnest (which I don't think it is). The issue is of course that almost all of these reactions are anti-town regardless of alignment.. Waste of a vig shot too.

[Darthe]

If anyone is VT, claim. If no-one makes that claim, we should consider Darthe pretty much definitely town.

Not sure if trolling.

Look at his reaction against Taz. Taz gave him the easiest out possible if he was lying. He restated it many times. Darthe stuck to his guns and was adamant that Taz was lying, despite Taz being confirmed town. That is not the action of a member of the scum team. Scum would claim vig, especially when given multiple opportunities to do it. The fact that there has to be one VT in the game and no one else has claimed VT makes it extremely likely that Darthe is telling the truth.

Wrong, scum Darthe still happens to know that Tazaro is lying and tells him repeatedly that he is lying.

No idea if this will work.

[Darthe]

Nope. It was a lolwut face.

[Darthe]

Did a quick Cheery skim and...wow. I need to read that closer. And you all should too.

Didn't I say this earlier?

[Darthe]

^. Without meta I have the same read on drmy. Cherry and BC still interest me.

[Darthe]

And there is the bullshit sympathy post.

[Darthe]

Ninja

[Darthe]

Better yet, Vig CKD, Pigeon, or CD.

[Darthe]

Whoops! Meant to Put CD and accidentally slid that K in there lol, then I put it correctly after that.

[Darthe]

Idiots. Told you all. He was so town. Vig Malp / CKD.

Vig CKD,

What?

Also, I am assuming you only ask because CKD hasn't particularly been high on my scumdar?

[Darthe]

Lol no, once will suffice IMO. Twice is a waste of a vig kill. Scummy twist though, nice.

Fuck it drmy, kill me if you can. 2 up and I would provide awesome info. Doesn't seem a waste to me atm, though I do prefer living to cast votes and find scum.

[Darthe]

I don't disagree with that. The main benefit of his death sooner rather than later is risk management for late game and info.

[Darthe]

Vote: ROfl

Makes more sense to understand your pushes in this light Angry.

[Darthe]

IDK, I kinda had an epiphany. Something seemed off. I saw the BC flip and thought "Well what was I expecting". Went back and saw that post. The line about me being a scumteam with blood caught my eye. I stared at it for a second. And yo know how sometimes you subconsciously pick up on a bunch of small things that are off, but don't really put it all together? But then, wham, some stimulus happens and it all snaps into your head at once? That is pretty much what happened.

Your Dcore bus was pretty giveaway.

This made a ton of sense to me.

And If Im lying, you are being awfully defensive about your game play as opposed to, IDK, calling me a liar.

will you walk yourself to the gallows tomorrow when i flip town? i already asked this and you went with the 'lol not talking to confirmed scum' route

Why are you asking me and not asserting that I must die Tomorrow?

because i'm trying to give you a chance to act like town and not an idiot but you keep refusing to do so

Complete bullshit. Can we lynch now?

[Darthe]

Holy shit this went full retard over the past few hours. Damn it AP. Can't decide if worth the info lynch or no. CKD lynch isn't bad either ATM. Peregrine pings the shit out f me today. Oh and

unvote

more later.

[Darthe]

I have a GS clear on me. So either
A) Cheery and I are the last 2 scum and he decided to link us together for some reason
B) Im an SK.
C) Im a mafia doctor (despite there already being one)
D) Im a VT
So which is it? Multiple choice tests are fun.

Yay for the Razor! Technically speaking 3/4 of these options have you being mafia but all three are retarded. I did find it funny in juxtaposition with this though:

Why does CKD softclaim D1 for no reason and under no pressure? And if you say "why would scum be that dumb", my response will be "Exactly"

AP is untouchable, folks. Despite the fact that I wanted to fry him alive for fakeclaiming.
I don't want no Rofl lynch today. His push on flipped scums look perfectly fine. Pere, meanwhile looks terrible.
See Pere in his post upon the closing of Day 1.

I guess my vote is useless now.

@Darthe- Why the hammer with at least 6 days left?

Unofficical

AngryPidgeon (1) - zabriel
zabriel (1) - ProHawk
Rob13 (1) - PeregrineV
DemonCore (7) - Rob13, AngryPidgeon, Cheery Dog, roflcopter, drmyshotgun, Tazaro, curiouskarmadog, Josh Lyman, Darthe
drmyshotgun (1) - BloodCovenant

Not Voting (5) - malpascp, , PMysterious, scooby, DemonCore

If Demon=cop, scum is Rob, zab, Josh at least

If Demon=scum, then we'll see.

If Demon=cop, scum is Rob, zab, Josh at least

Why Rob?

Didn't like post 15 (see 156) and it never got better from there.

And when someone claims a PR, unless there is a super duper reason to do so, I'm strongly against lynching them day1. But, Rob is absolutely positively 100% sure that Demon is scum. And no consideration or discussion otherwise of the claim.

I don't think town is ever that sure.

Then why isnt rofl scum?

Tell me why he is, and I'll either agree or disagree with your reasons. I have a town read on him right now.

These posts.

Dear lord all of this. Peregrine pings but I couldn't quantify it like this (never have been a particularly strong caser). Thanks! Also, can we get a VC?

[Darthe]

I extensively ISO'd Rob/Malp/Darthe yesterday. My gut tells me its not Malp. I think hes just derp.

Darthe/Rofl both make me want to kill them. I guess I'll throw up some questions for them.

Better yet, Vig CKD, Pigeon, or CD.

Whoops! Meant to Put CD and accidentally slid that K in there lol, then I put it correctly after that.

Darthe, can you explain this slip. You explicitly mentioned CKD in your hit-list and then said you meant to say CD (Cheery Dog). You also explicitly mentioned him though. So what exactly happened here?

God my brain went full retard on this. I totally was thinking of one person and typed another then saw that I hadn't put that persons name in when reading back and added them. IDK why, CKD--CD just got befuddled in here. Of course, I was more interested in CD than CKD which is suck since we know how they flipped now but this is the first mafia lynch I haven't been on.

God, all these people thinking PV was scum. It was so obviously not the case. But I'm not being productive in saying it.

Darthe, what did you mean in this post:

unvote vote AngryPidgeon

and you are avoiding questions that you know the answer to but dont want to admit...you dont want to say I would probably be town if BC should flip scum. why is that? "blah blah blah scummy questions" or you dont want to admit that you think I am scum no matter any flip...which is obviously bullshit reasoning especially given the reason you "think" I am scum/


ANSWER THE QUESTION, if it makes it easier on you...

in a crazy alternate universe...if BC should flip SCUM, am I still scum..why?

stop stalling...avoiding...or whatever you are doing.

take a stance today...

Well, that was overly defensive. Throw more shit at other players and see if you can gain credibility by making one of them flail! What a perfect plan for anyone anti-town.

oh wait..

This is pretty blatant pushing of CKD when his case was starting to grow (to my eyes) into something a bit more legitimate. He was throwing out pings at a lot of people if I recall correctly and I called him on it to little effect. Of course, it is sarcastic, hence the "oh wait.." but that is besides the point.

And yeah, I was going to go after peregrine today as well, I am pretty off for me this game. I will admit that I wouldn't be a bad info lynch or vig kill but I think we currently have better options remaining.

[Darthe]

I think we have already discussed my thoughts on CKD. Why did you choose to wait to vote me until after you were asked that? You have brought up points before and even mentioned me in this phase already as your most likely. Seems like you could have voted then.

[Darthe]

I have a though. Still VT, still not a bad infolynch, still are better options. Would love to hear about any NA's gone through.

[Darthe]

Hey, I wanted to help out a bit here by giving you all a link to a game that shows my town meta and a game that shows my mafia meta since I am new. Perhaps not the best time but since Rob is willing to give PP a week I figure this is acceptable now:

Mafia: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic ... vier-wins/

Town: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic ... ighborhood

[Darthe]

Meh, I am still and have been VT. Where the hell did malp go?

[Darthe]

Yeah, guys I do not know where the idea has come from here that I was cleared but I haven't been by anyone. Malp has been on people's scumdar all game but we haven't heard from him in a while so I am interested in what he has to say before placing a vote.

[Darthe]

So... Malp where are you? Still curious

[Darthe]

Hi there. Hungover.
Claim: miller.
will read later today, and I guess RVS is already over.

@Angry- Your 151 looks like an OMGUS vote. Please explain why it isn't.

@Blood- Your response to a Miller claim seems lacking. Do you believe Malp's claim?

Vote: Rob13

Post 15 just rubs me completely wrong. It's obvious that it was an RVS statement, yet 15 is an attempt to lend legitimacy to an RVS statement.

Pedit Rob: I disagree. It was very much OMGUS.

Dear everyone not voting one of the claimed millers:

1) Link to game with two millers
2) A vote for BC or malp (preferably BC)

or STFU

FoS CKD and AP for obfuscating the point and cluttering the thread with stupid bullshit when we pretty much have a guaranteed scum sitting right in front of us.

Interesting argument over the possibilities, but we still haven't heard from malpascp since his claim. I really want to hear from him more before we run to far on the miller talk.

PEdit: Seriously dr? What game was that?

Two miller claims. Seems legit. We should believe both of them.

Jesus. I'm going to have to put trollface on every post I make. I'm pretty sure at least one of the miller claims is completely full of shit. Honestly I thought the first Miller claim was a joke until everybody went so apeshit over it. Guy comes in and jokeclaims in first post, and then we throw shit around until something sticks and one of us is dead.

From a third person point of view, i'm willing to believe two miller claims to an extent. Mine is definitely less gambity.

@BC: Rofl is kind of drifting into the null-town region of my reads. Shoot CKD

Darthe is town.

Did mal just CC BC's miller claim?

DemonCore is still scum.

2 miller claims. Right. Ok. I bet my lucky oldschool 5$ bill that they are both true. Takers?

VOTE: Demon Core

I wouldn't even consider it a counter claim. And yeah, i'm thinking he might be town too. If Mal posted more, that might help.

this Zab lynch is too fucking easy...a wagon built up on him based on a sarcastic remark?

bullshit.

AP I am curious, am I still scum when/if he flips town? I would like to know before the day ends?

I got called out for Appeal to fear for this kind of post. I'm pulling that card out against you now.

I am totally going to vote for someone on the Zab wagon.
BUT WHO?

fucking worthless post.

BC is town.

Right now Dcore/CKD are the obvious team. CKD's "Am I scum regardless of the Zab flip" solidifies that connection although Zabriel hasn't done enough to warrant the lynch compared to these 2.

P-edit: BC isn't flipping scum and you are.

who are you going after when i flip town?

another appeal to fear

way to dodge all the fucking questions.

if BC flips scum, am I scum?

do you really think BC wasnt being dodgy?

why is that so hard to answer?

appeal to fear.


PeregrineV is townnnnn

fos: angrypidgeon

no there are not two millers in this game. and your entire "catchup" spiel reeks of bullshit. bc is not town. zab is not town. they are today and tomorrow's lynches, in either order.

This post feels like it comes from a player with extra information.

Dear everyone not voting one of the claimed millers:

1) Link to game with two millers
2) A vote for BC or malp (preferably BC)

or STFU

FoS CKD and AP for obfuscating the point and cluttering the thread with stupid bullshit when we pretty much have a guaranteed scum sitting right in front of us.

why is Mal's Miller claim any more legitimate than mine? that makes no sense and there is no reasoning at all.

Your last line is awful as fuck. You're calling out players for creating discussion and giving us information. That's fucking awful town play.

unvote:
Vote: Demon Core

---

I dont know if this is correct. I have never been in a game with two millers...never heard of a game with two millers.

tbh a deathnote game with two millers wouldn't really surprise me, but i'm surprised it's in a mini, instead of a large themed game.

Yeah.
I'd love to see both of them go down.
They must not survive until the Lylo at the very least.

What happens if you lynch me and i flip town? do you go right after Mal then? or do you let him slide by? how does that work?

Your reaction would have been bad and it kinda is, BloodCovenent. It is hollow. No comment but confusion.
The merit is earned in you not trying to rip Malpascp's throat to save yours.

As for AP's reaction, think for yourself.

In my point of view, both claims are true. It's too much of a coincidence for BC to fakeclaim before I did. So if I somehow flip, then BC will be confirmed town miller. Voting for him is stupid, unless you think we are both fakeclaiming. Will reread and make reads later.

Comparing my reaction to another game which i haven't read is poor imo.

but if you had read it you wouldn't be making the same reaction?
While it's not a useful tool since it's not the same person that is having the reaction, if you had read it then you probably wouldn't have that reaction if you are scum. (actually I don;t know what I've talking about, but that defence is bad)

In my point of view, both claims are true. It's too much of a coincidence for BC

to fakeclaim before I did

. So if I somehow flip, then BC will be confirmed town miller. Voting for him is stupid, unless you think we are both fakeclaiming. Will reread and make reads later.

Thanks for just admitting you fakeclaimed, that makes it so much easier for me to decide which one of the miller claims I'm down for lynching.

VOTE: Malpascp

Avoiding base responses and metagame here I think the recent miller discussion is scummy bullshit. It doesn't matter whether they are town or not, what has happened in previous games based on each of your limited experiences, or how you perceive it. Two millers is extremely unlikely but possible. Two fake claim millers on D1 is a shit gambit for mafia and a waste so very unlikely as well. One miller and one fake claim is much more likely and so probable. Because of the nature of the role neither can be allowed to live til endgame regardless. In essence, pick which one you think is more scumtastic and place your vote where your mouth is. The rest is a continued WIFOM and scummy.

I think this should be enough for now. Read and see. I will get to more and then analysis of this soon.

[Darthe]

Avoiding base responses and metagame here I think the recent miller discussion is scummy bullshit. It doesn't matter whether they are town or not, what has happened in previous games based on each of your limited experiences, or how you perceive it. Two millers is extremely unlikely but possible. Two fake claim millers on D1 is a shit gambit for mafia and a waste so very unlikely as well. One miller and one fake claim is much more likely and so probable. Because of the nature of the role neither can be allowed to live til endgame regardless. In essence, pick which one you think is more scumtastic and place your vote where your mouth is. The rest is a continued WIFOM and scummy.

VOTE: Darthe

It may be cow pie to some extent
But it's not scummy.
Explain better why it is, if you can finagle it.

I should truly clarify here, it seems that most individuals here agree that the millers should not make it through this game. Risk management yada yada. Either they explicitly state it or implicitly do so through a vote. So if you don't intend to allow something to happen then seem to be leaving it to happen... why? Disparity in actions = non-town play. That isn't a change of mind, it is contrary action to spoken intent. Hence, place your vote where your mouth is. How did that warrant a vote btw?

So, on the miller claims.

Blood's claim came first, and included the faction adjective. I would expect that his role, if he is town miller, to be stated exactly as that.

Malp's claim did not, but he also claimed to have not read the thread. If true, then he could be town letting people know he is miller in his first post, or he is scum who decided to claim miller not realizing such a claim already existed.

Blood's reaction to the Malp Miller claim was less than spectacular. If you claim a role (other than VT), chances are good you ARE that role, and if you are, you know that the new claim is a lie. Blood's reaction was a:

However, this is a miller role, which is technically worse than vanilla. So, something like that may be an exception to the rule. But, it would have been better to see such thought processes come from either of the millers themselves.

Right now both Blood and Malp think the other Miller is legitimate. While it is in their own self-interest to have the Miller role perceived as town, there is also no other non-VT role that players would agree the other is legit so quickly.

This is going to boil down to actual play, with the fact they are millers meaning pretty much nothing.

Hey, taking a page out of rofl's playbook is my play not yours!

But seriously, are you scum?

Guarantee you I am. Now ISO CKD/Dcore together and tell me that isn't the obvious team.

Appeal to meta: remember when Arugula claimed 2shot SK and flipped Vig. Yup.

Pedit: ya you are scum. I know now.

Zabriel wagon please and thanks. This rofl counterwagon is both scumlead and and a counterwagon.

No dumbshit.

i could go for zabriel, bloodcovenant or rob right now. zabriel best bet.

well, tell me then. Why zabriel?

You are seriously asking this?

This thread asploded. I probably can't comment until I get home.

Meaning: There's some good stuff going on, I can't say anything before I cook up some devious plans in my brain cuz it will sound scummy.

I was mostly commenting on how he was claiming miller in first post, and that's like one of two schools of thought on how to play Miller. But it was so to the letter it was just kind of funny. I also wasn't sure if it was a legit claim or not.

what the fuck zabriel.

That was page 2

As much as I like DrMy right now, I'm getting some weird vibes out of him. He seems to be pushing the miller stuff a little too hard, and the whole idea of scummy emoticons strikes me as just bizarre.

VOTE: Darthe

Fine, is this useless? For real, I'm parking my vote here for the rest of the day. I just want everyone to actually read the following transaction and tell me he isn't scum:

But seriously, are you scum?

Guarantee you I am.

Did you just admit to being scum?

If you are town you are flailing an awful lot all of a sudden. I have no meta on you so I will ask others.. Is this how pissedoffbird usually plays?

peregrine do you believe both miller claims?

Ah, I wish I had more typing time.

Let me start by saying that it seems that Miller adds power to the scum team.

Originally the game included a miller, but I was talked into dropping that for a VT.

So the existence of 2, if true, may mean a stronger town power to balance it.

I've seen 2 millers (unknown to the players) in a large theme, but not in a large normal to-date.

All that aside, I feel like the chances are fairly low. Which means at some point we have to look at the players who claimed miller and how they play.

That's the part that will have to wait.

Pere is Town on my watch.

Anyways, everyone should look at AngryPidgeon's ISO and tell me he didn't OMGUS on pretty much every single thing that went in his way.

Wow, I don't give a single fuck about miller claims. Don't investigate them. Treat them like anyone else. The fact that there are 2 is odd, but wifom so who cares. Being a miller does not clear someone. Nor does it make them such a liability that they must die. I won't vote BC because hes probably town. Malp is very much less town. Also go us, spamming the thread so hard.

Ansar, that's the kind of thing you take to PM.

The basic idea behind miller claims is that they save a cop investigation. I don't mind keeping BC around, he seems sincere enough. Malp is a little bit meh, but I still want to give him a chance to post a little bit more.

BITCHES

If I flip town, then it means that BC claimed miller when another one existed, and I think it would be too much of a coincidence for scum to claim exactly that when another miller existed. Not that hard to understand. In my point of view, BC is confirmed town.

Wait...what? You're claiming that if two people claim miller and one is town then the other must be town? By that logic, if two people claim doc and one is doc, then both are doc.

I don't agree with your logic and am really questioning your motives for claiming this.

Lynch Malpa or Angry.
Malpa makes zero sense and seems to want to keep WIFOM around as long as possible.

There is still a point that he may have fakeclaimed miller without knowing there was an actual miller in the game and also you hadn't read the thread, meaning you fakeclaiming it there would also have no knowledge another miller existed.
Neither of you are cleared at the present time and neither of you will be cleared when/if the other flips.

This would be true if I as scum was stupid enough to fakeclaim miller without reading the thread. I'll reread so we can disscuss stuff that really matters.

God, just kill it.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Malpascp

Tell me what part doesn't make sense.

So you think I would fakeclaim miller when someone already had, and then WIFOM my way around it, but trying to clear the guy that claimed miller (btw he is fucking cleared). Seems legit.

Hi there. Hungover.
Claim: miller.

will read later today, and I guess RVS is already over.

I believe that effectively invalidates what you've stated. If he didn't read the thread, his potential motivations for claiming miller are identical to those if just one miller claims. No "WIFOM-neutralization" as you put it.

As far as your theory of "WIFOM-neutralization", that's WIFOM in itself. Two millers claiming in-thread creates the same issues as if one miller claims in-thread. You can argue two are unlikely so if one is town the other is scum and vice versa, but that is not 100% true. There have been games with two millers. If we take that line of thought, we could end up two days in with two mislynches and four town dead (assuming only one night-kill each night) The potential disadvantages of taking a gamble based only on their claims and mislynching both far outweighs any advantages. We have to evaluate play, not strictly claims.

Your posts are weird. You say malpa-scum is not likely to be scum at all because of your "WIFOM-neutralization" nonsense, but then you say we should lynch him over BC if we go with a miller. Wait, what? That makes little sense. Lynching someone you think is likely town to gain info about someone you think is null or scum doesn't make sense. Just lynch the null-scum.

In fact, IF malpascp is scum, the only attempted benefit of his miller claim that is see is -> neutralizing the negative stigma of BLOODCOVENANT's claim, which makes sense if malpascp wants to protect a scum buddy in BloodCovenant.

And if this IS a reason for scum malpascp to rationalize a claim of miller, I don't think it's terribly likely.

@drmyshotty, If we lynch one of them first, though, it should be malpascp, for the information that malpascp's flip would give to incriminate BC, in my view.

I mean information that a malpascp scum flip would give. If malpascp is scum, BC should get heat, in my view, but if BC flips scum, that doesn't tell us anything about malpascp.

Finally someone got it. Thanks Taz.

This needs like way more votes

Been kinda distracted, so I don't get it.

It's elementary, my dear AngryPidgey

Can we like lynch fucking "Miller" right now?

Why not lynching scum?

Oh hey, actually here.

Malpascp's hardcore defense of BC is one of the things keeping me off Mal's wagon. Town got pretty burned on a popular policy lynch in another game I'm in, so I'm a little bit wary of charging forward on this one.

Cool, we should vote DemonCore, CKD or Darthe then.

Oh hey, actually here.

Malpascp's hardcore defense of BC is one of the things keeping me off Mal's wagon. Town got pretty burned on a popular policy lynch in another game I'm in, so I'm a little bit wary of charging forward on this one.

Yeah? Fucking longer the both Millers live, more advantage for scumteam to keep playing with goddamn WIFOM and shits like that.
Finish this day already please.

I disagree with a Miller policy lynch.

It is not a policy lynch. Malpascp is legitimately scummy. Kill it with fire.

I can actually almost see Prohawk scum after a glance of his ISO. Still working slowly. Playing dominion. Lol. gimme an hour

So far I recall you calling many people scums recently. List them all in one post for me thanks.

Also: Anyone thinking PMysterious is being pro-Town and will do us good if he (she?) survives longer, I dare you to say it out loud.

Cool, we should vote DemonCore, CKD or Darthe then.

No.

It is not a policy lynch. Malpascp is legitimately scummy. Kill it with fire.

Agree, I think.

Let me finish ISOs?

Top of my head I'd like to lynch Darthe, DemonCore, CKD, Malp, Zabriel. In roughly that order. Prohawk I need to reread. I do think I'll be able to read him more accurately than I do almost all other peeps.

But the bonus is that Malpa also has strong, strong possibility of being Scum. Its greater gain.

My reaction to Malpa? Where? Oh NM, where I said they are both likely town.

But ya, Malpa's super WIFOM since then is scummy as hell.

why would

Zabtown

"distance" himself from someone

he doesnt know

is scum?

why would anything

BC(you)town

do "implicate" Zab?

these two terms are not sitting right with me.

waiting on an answer from Zab

also

unvote

This post struck me as odd. Consistent defense of Zab and prohawk pings for that as well. Seems like mafia attempting to psuedo-bus, I bet two of the three shift opinions quickly close to lynch.

Vote Zab

. We will see.

what exactly seems odd? "opinion shift"? you mean me unvoting my random vote?

Bolded above.

All are an effect called priming where the individual places words or terms in such a way that it reinforces an opinion

. So this leaves two options. You either feel definitively that these two people are town (hence putting it in their name) or the more likely one in five pages is that you are

mafia with one of them at least and are attempting to sway us with the subconscious reasoning of free association.

Because what the hell is this

stuff

?

you know what, i don't actually need to read what i missed to see whats happening here. zabriel wagon is stalled because scum don't want to bus yet. angrypidgeon should vote for him, that will bring us to critical mass and they'll have to start bussing. bloodcovenant is still the scum claiming miller. ckd needs to get his vote off of ap because you are both town and should also join the zabriel wagon.

and really, 17 pages in and there's five people not even voting? for shame.

Tazaro's laconic replies are a bit abrasive, but I generally find that this is a town playstyle. Out of the whole Rob/Rofl thing, I do have bit of a stronger town read on Rob. I'm feeling kind of null-scum on Rofl.

Tazaro's laconic replies are a bit abrasive, but I generally find that this is a town playstyle. Out of the whole Rob/Rofl thing, I do have bit of a stronger town read on Rob. I'm feeling kind of null-scum on Rofl.

^^^^^^scummmmmmmmmm

Drmy certainly got off track fast from the last time I was here. Has your list changed entirely?? I find it amazing that I gained FoS's and have made it on scum lists for things that I haven't done more than things I have. The best that has been said is "hey, this guy's scummy" but has a single person provided a reason beyond the base "your posts are pingy"? Nope.

In any case, I could care less about the pings. Malp is somewhat pingy, I would rather him die than BC for sure. Zab is still LLL. Taz seems odd but idk him so maybe he is just an odd ass person. Pidgeon is still ruffling his feathers. When is the last time you actually contributed in a way that was helpful to the town?

I have a town read on drmy, bc, cheerydog, and rob and a null on the rest of you. CKD and Dcore are wildcard.

Scum.

Which, for the record, makes my scum reads:

Demon
CKD
Darthe
Zab
Mal

In no particular order.

you claimed miller. then someone else claimed miller too. thats a counterclaim. with almost any role except miller the counterclaimed player would be lynched immediately.

several other people have stated that Malp was likely to have not read the thread when claiming. have you yet to acknowledge that?

I'm now hating mal's miller claim. I'm wary of

any

miller claim (scum just make themselves cop immune for no reason), but if I got a miller role PM and someone else claimed miller, it would take a lot of convincing for me to not park my vote on that person.

Short and sweet reads (will "elaborate" on request for a specific one)

town: AP, rofl, rob13, darthe, prohawk, CKD (yes, I flip-flopped)
???: Cheery dog (more on this one later), BC (actual play made me change my mind; still hate the miller claim)
scum: Tazaro (talk about someone making WTF votes and then disappearing), malp

Withholding my vote for very, very good reason. If anyone hammers before the next vote count, I will rage.

Why the fuck are you reading the thread right now? This means you haven't read shit until now.
So you are pretty useless on all counts and seriously deserve the rope that's tight around your neck.
If you are actually a Cop: Fuck you.
Explain your Darthe Town read.

Okay this shit is amusing to reread. Some of the quotes I have made are for me to look at or other reason like that and trivial. Others that are unrelated are because I wanted to remind living players of their early thoughts and of why they are/aren't considered scummy. More to come then synthesis.

[Darthe]

I intend to synthesize those quotes and add more soon. For now I will say this; since we only have one mafia member left their ability to manipulate the situation is effectively diminished by a shit load. With this in mind it is easy to compare the known mafia's plays with any remaining individual and the town has a good margin for error though that is hopefully unnecessary. With this in mind, I am going to keep combing through this thread and analyzing each of us (myself included, I will bring up both good and bad points) to give the town the best info.

[Darthe]

What is it about that that bothers you guys around here? Most people would see not including yourself as slanted because it ignores the influence of your role where I play most of my games. Also, is their any particular way that you all manage to do ISO's besides a multiquote?

[Darthe]

Yeah man, thanks to him, this is going to be my first scum loss... I mean, hell no, I'm town. -.-

Pingy joke.

Fuuuuuuck. Too many claims. We need to hear the full thing from Tazaro. As far as I can see, all this JoaT claims are way too convenient, scum could easily do this gambit. Also, finding who killed zabriel is top priority. We have 2 claimed vig-shots, I guess there are no more town NK roles. It would be nice if Taz just cut the crap and told us everything. And that applies to everyone. Screw mafia having information, they are going to have it anyway, and if we get the SK (pretty sure there is one by now), then I doubt we won't win this game.
Will have limited access until Wednesday.

Translation of this post: More than 1 miller? Natural. More than 1 JoaT? GAMBIT! Oh, and Zab killer needs to reveal! And also, there is almost certainly an SK but if there isn't this fear mongering should at least take some time to get through.

Well that was pretty fucked up Taz. First thing I thought was : scumteam Taz and Darthe. After this shit, none of you will ever be lynched. Like ever ever. I guess it would be really bold to do a gambit like this, but hey this game is turning really screwed up too. For now I don't have a single reason to vote either Taz or Darthe. BC is also out of the equation as far as I'm concerned, I still think my logic makes sense.

P-EDIT: hm that makes sense too. Darthe should have thought immediatly that Taz was conf-scum to him, why not voting? This enforces my gambit theory. Hooray.

Guys, can someone make some kind of list of the claims that have been made or something? I think it would be helpful, and also I don't even remember half of them anymore, brain too full of Chemistry.

Just gonna leave this one here for you all to read.

Ok then, Taz is actually definitively confirmed town? 100%? No godfathers and other shit? Even considering that this game has fucking millers? hum sounds about right

DC lynch BC lynch, whatever. I'm stoned.

me too!

Guilty over here lulz.

Finally this shitty day is over,

I just want to see night actions flying around and people droping dead, bam-bam.

And I'm aware that I'm pretty much screwed if BC is scum, but he isn't. Kill scum tonight you bastards. For my mental sanity.

Want to see people dead, day that first town is gonna die is a "shitty day", BC definitely isn't scum.

I don't care. I'm a miller. Even without Rob's result, I'd be quite likely lynched today. I'm not scum, not a vig, I don't have a gun. I'm a fucking miller and I wish I could be proud of it.

You all better un-bookmark this topic when this game is over, because post-game thoughts by the miller guy over here... are not going to be nice.

Go and lynch scumbags. I fucking dare you.

Now that my caffeine (plus something else) high is calming down, I'm going to sleep. Hoping not to wake up dead.

P-Edit: I shouldn't care anymore, but only

fake-claiming scum could be enjoying this.

Or maybe healthy people that like to play Mafia. Dunno, find it out by yourselves.

Probably the most town post he makes this game until the bolded.

Once again, town doesn't lie. Not placing a vote until tomorrow, too lazy to make tags.

P-Edit: scumteam rofl, AP and Shooty. Thank me later.

No AP, you can't lynch your buddy. I mean, you should, but bla bla bla WIFOM bla bla bla I have a gun and so on.

Does anyone think rofl, AP, and shotgun are mafia (were mafia in the instance of the dead guy)? AP and rofl have semi-WIFOMed themselves but each is pretty clear at this point.

AP. You are pretty much screwed. Don't do that gambit. Just die. Please.

P-Edit: @rofl: didn't read lol
stuff AP quoted from rofl is correct IMO, Rob is town.

Yes this is a Pre-Edit again: AP is scum. I'm placing my vote now. Rob is town, rofl could be hard bussing but dunno.

Vote: AngryPidgeon

So anyways I found this interesting. Everyone already knows Rob is town, but nice of him to remind us that he agrees with us. And this is around the time that Malp's activity drops off.

Malp, how do you feel about these people now?

[Darthe]

Well fuck. Totally don't know how to work this place yet.

[Darthe]

Oh, look, I'm here. I hate miller claims. I'd almost policy lynch anyone who does so, but everyone seems to hate that more than miller claims. So, I'm apparently fucked.

I need to thoroughly re-read all 15 (!!!) pages of this game and get back to you soon.

I do think I'll be able to read [Prohawk] more accurately than I do almost all other peeps.

Why do you say this?

@drmy and Rob, any consensus as to when you two want the day to end?

This is also terribly scummy.

So many scum to choose from. I would like a votecount before voting (Yes, I'm lazy).

Let's do this.

Vote: DemonCore

I was really busy the last couple of days, sorry. Now I have 15 pages to catch up on. Urgh.

Summaries, anyone?

Oh, there's been a hammer. Well, that gives me a couple more days to catch up. Will post when day opens up.

I'm here. Reading. You guys talk a lot.

I'm at the top of page 43. More in the morning.

So, this is every lyman post in the game. His only vote was on DCore and he has said that he would catch up twice, complained that he hasn't been able to in almost every post, and called drmy, prohawk, ap, and rob scummy... Obviously not playing well if he is town. Dear lord if he is mafia could have a field day.

[Darthe]

I should mention two things. One, the watcher who said I did something to San is lying because I'm vanilla . Two, this train is forced as fuck.

Just gonna point out this was my role claim

[Darthe]

Oh that is cool, a player whose name I know.

[Darthe]

Just look at the Iso's or read the pages, it isn't that much.

[Darthe]

Lazy, perhaps. Mafia, no.

[Darthe]

By all means, as I have said before I shouldn't probably be allowed to WIFOM late game because of some poor plays in the early game. If you truly think I warrant a vote then place it and read my flip. I don't see mafia winning regardless.

[Darthe]

DGB, what are your thought on what is going on with this setup?

[Darthe]

I'm not a fan of balance talk that agrees with the concept of the game being mafia sided. Yes, it may be a bit heavy in their favor theoretically but that doesn't mean anything to the real game. No more proof besides the dead mafia is needed. So using that or setup speculation to judge someone on is faulty logic IMO.

[Darthe]

And will you put it past him since I am town? ^ Btw, DC mentioning all mafia is retarded..

Like I said, death is going to come to me eventually this game, I am very aware. I accept that, but I intend to fight to live and find mafia during what time I have remaining.

[Darthe]

I highly dislike how my name has been generally linked with malp. To me it seems more likely that we have a VT lying than a PR. The amount of "kill one then the other" type talk being tossed about seems relevant to this conclusion. It's an attempt to make Lylo. That is where I want more attention. More on this soon.

[Darthe]

How the hell did the same people who came to the conclusion that the town had too few power roles to be balanced also come to the conclusion that one of our power riles must therefore be scum?

[Darthe]

If Cheery is scum, he bussed hard on CKD and to a lesser extent DC. After reading his ISO with the confirmed members of the scum-team, I do not believe he is scum. His night actions are questionable at best, but I saw very little in their interactions that points to anything but Cheery-town.

Was Cheery's choice of night action bad? Yes.
Was it anti-town? Probably.
Is he scum? No.

QUESTION.

Did he speak to the scumbags directly, or did he speak OF the scumbags only?

If he's engaging the scumbags directly and engaging them, then he's town.

If not - he's scum.

Why?

[Darthe]

^ Don't like this post. Don't like it at all.

[Darthe]

Yes there was, and the subsequent reaction of changing what she said and then coming back and asking me why after. My read on DGB is moderately town ATM regardless but I didn't like the back scratcher post. (If you don't get that term, it is an individual who says "well hey if you do this for me and I'm right then but if I'm wrong ill give this to you so everything is still cool). Not scummy, I simply don't see it as good town play.

[Darthe]

Lol, I love the intent to kill. And I suppose that DGB saying malp wasn't mafia was enough for all of you to tuck tail? Do me a favor, speed lynch me tomorrow and go full retard when you're left floundering almost at LyLo with no good choice.

[Darthe]

Lol, I love the intent to kill. And I suppose that DGB saying malp wasn't mafia was enough for all of you to tuck tail? Do me a favor, speed lynch me tomorrow and go full retard when you're left floundering almost at LyLo with no good choice.

you act like there aren't enough lynches left to take care of malp too, something i've mentioned numerous times and made a point of including yours and his names in the shortlist of people who will be dead before any lylo situation, wah wah wah

And here was the mafia reply.

[Darthe]

vote: zabriel

i could go for zabriel, bloodcovenant or rob right now. zabriel best bet.

i could go for zabriel, bloodcovenant or rob right now. zabriel best bet.

well, tell me then. Why zabriel?

very well, but you should know its your fault that people won't get a chance to form their own opinions about this and will instead adopt my awesome opinion

Wow. Miller claim already. Seems legit. BC=Obvtown.

if zab had simply said "miller claim. bc=obvtown" i would have thought nothing of this post. but no, its "wow," its "already," and it "seems legit," which makes zab "seem way too excited" to either already know who he doesn't have to nightkill, or be pushing his buddies millerclaim through to the town list (still too early to tell which, but we will kill you before too long too and find out, don't worry)

I'm clearly looking at your reasoning in a different perspective. You're single minded, you thought of only one possibility with his post, i looked at it a different way. suddenly that makes me role fishing. No, it doesn't.

if you actually cared about understanding whether or not i was scum you would look at my reasoning from my perspective and wonder if that reasoning makes sense from town, not make up some new perspective to talk about that instead (and yes, to rolefish, because all your comment does is beg the question to zabriel "are you the cop")

you know what, i don't actually need to read what i missed to see whats happening here. zabriel wagon is stalled because scum don't want to bus yet. angrypidgeon should vote for him, that will bring us to critical mass and they'll have to start bussing. bloodcovenant is still the scum claiming miller. ckd needs to get his vote off of ap because you are both town and should also join the zabriel wagon.

and really, 17 pages in and there's five people not even voting? for shame.

i'll go ahead and prove you wrong when zab and bc both flip scum

well you are just outright wrong.

first of all, "scumslips" are not the only way scum is found. in fact i would say its rare that an outright "scumslip" occurs.

second, i've already established two primary reads that i believe strongly in. one of them is still the leading wagon. so why exactly do i need to do anything except try to convince more people to vote for him?

third, even in your narrow interpretation of my actions as "cannot contribute", being unable to contribute is not alignment indicative in any way, so your fos is bunk

you are being silly and stubborn

Tazaro's laconic replies are a bit abrasive, but I generally find that this is a town playstyle. Out of the whole Rob/Rofl thing, I do have bit of a stronger town read on Rob. I'm feeling kind of null-scum on Rofl.

^^^^^^scummmmmmmmmm

Fuck it, just started through your ISO and their is no point. I could quote shit and make you look scummy as hell this game but in doing so I would ignore a big part of how you have played. A few big scummy statements but if you're mafia you did damn better than the rest of your team and bussed the living shit out of them. I'm stuck with probable town here, though I dislike a few things you have said.

[Darthe]

God damn it, I took out the quotes when I saw it was useless. Stupid text editor.

[Darthe]

Okay, I started to blow this off as AP being... Ap-ish but as you read more down perhaps you'll start to see it too. Commentary as well this time.

Rob, you have a few good points against BloodCovenant, except for one part. Wouldn't scum try to avoid each other more than make connections with each other? Do you really think that scum would make two connections back and forth to sacrifice the other scum-partner should one flip scum?

While this does not exonerate BC or Zabriel, I think it does make it not so fairly obvious as you say it is.

So this gets said. Mafia, according to post 1 from PH, don't try to connect to each other so this is going to make things more difficult.

I think I can see it now.

VOTE: zabriel

Wow. Miller claim already.

Seems legit. BC=Obvtown

.

I was mostly commenting on how he was claiming miller in first post, and that's like one of two schools of thought on how to play Miller. But it was so to the letter it was just kind of funny.

I also wasn't sure if it was a legit claim or not.

These two posts do not equate.

Early town cred of a sort.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Demon Core

Amusing.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zabriel

No reason to call his bluff Day 1. Back to the other scum.

And then.

Completely agree, don't counterclaim until later in the game. That way in the off chance he is telling the truth about being cop, we don't mis-lynch him and scum would be forced to kill him.

Well this seems obvious doesn't it? (Should be noted that at the time I was somewhat drinking this coolaid as well).

zabriel - Mafia Doctor! - Anyone else as confused as I am about this? I mean, I knew zab was a bad guy, but killed during the night?

Holy shit Batman! (this forum doesn't seem to have a sarcasm font =/)
It should be noted that there were no posts between the two above.

Third party? Is zabriel DC's partner? We have a vig AND mafia kill was blocked/protected? We have to reach some agreement on how this NK happened so we can analyze Day 1.

P-Edit: If a vig shot Zab, then our doc/RB got it right on N1? Is any of these roles "claimable" right now?

No. Not Claimable.

VOTE: malpascp

Has now said mafia won't be working together or linking at all on thread but his votes... seem to generally indicate otherwise or he is an awesome scum hunter who is floundering in late game.

I see a Miller claims. Detestable. Never seen Miller claim turning out to actually be a Miller. See Spartacus Mafia and Disney Villains Mafia to see where I'm coming from.
If possible, I'd like to lynch both Millers. Believe it or not I saw a two men scumteam plotting to claim millers at the same time, get one lynched and have one live until the lylo in cruising time.

Do you suggest that we policy lynch the Miller claims without trying to see if they are scum or not? I don't really agree with the logic that we should lynch them because one scum-team plotted to both claim miller, especially when the team decided not to try it. As Rob put it, there are motivations for both scum and town to claim miller early on. There are other ways to catch scum without the cop.

Does not agree with lynching millers because they are millers. THIS IS VERY NOTABLE IMO. AP, why am I doing this case for you?

@ Rob13 - I am VT which also confirms CKD's claim of me not targeting anyone.

Here is his claim.

Silly attempt to get a DC that was going to inevitably be lynched to admit being scum in thread. If it had worked, he would be rolling in town cred. When Taz ruined it in subsequent posts, he gets really, really angry as indicated in ISO #39-#41 (look them up). Due to the crazy emotion and attempt to get town cred when DC was going to be lynched anyway, most likely, I consider this exchange a tad scummy.

^This convinced me.

Never understood why so many people discredited the claim so quickly without blinking.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CKD

I am so sad this thread moves so fast. So many one liners I wanted to reply to, but alas they are pages away and the joke is long gone.

And a CKD vote as well.

Oh, there's been a hammer. Well, that gives me a couple more days to catch up. Will post when day opens up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Josh Lyman

Time to lynch the lurker.

Aside from that, rofl looks town to me. Still have more digging to do on Darthe.

Doesn't agree with lynching millers. Perfectly ok with lynching Lurkers.

@Rob - Your logic on Lyman scum is spot on so long as there are only 4 scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malp

I also concur with your malp reasoning. I don't feel like Darthe is scum.

You're very agreeable aren't you? (Read the ISO, I am not quoting every damn time he is agreeable or submissive.. let's leave it at the fact that it is a lot)

Malp, You are a supposed miller, no way for us to tell what your real alignment is. I don't see anyone else more scummy around.

Rob has an outstanding track record of fishing out and lynching scum. Of course I am going to believe him when he says you are a good lynch.

You actually read Darthe's quotes?

So you don't think he is really a miller then?

2 Millers and 1

One-Shot

Gunsmith does not compute.

So with the setup we have to lynch one miller and gunsmith the other? Something smells fishy.

Today, we lynch Malp or Cheery.

Pretty much a turnaround here, I can see this building.

I think its malp, but Cheery gets second place.

I will compromise on malp

And there it is! Contrary to everything before you now want to lynch a miller, and have planted the suggestion that perhaps lynching a PR wouldn't be bad either, because of what they are.

I can do a wall if you want, but it won't be for a day or three. I have a midterm, quiz, and a shit ton of homework coming up this week that I need to get under control.

So yeah, will get wall on Darthe going as soon as I can.

If I am reading the deadline correctly, we have 2 Days, 13 hours to come up with a consensus. If you are really busy this week, you should consider lynching Cheery with us and we can go after Darthe tomorrow if it comes down to that.

But make sure you guys hammer quickly, let's not dally. This is some pretty inconsistent play, and worth a bit of a look.

[Darthe]

Rob, where are you going when I flip VT? AP, I like the new pic.

[Darthe]

I would actually disagree with PH. If the mafia wanted to see a speed lynch today they would have killed Rob. That would have probably gotten me speed lynched. If my death is imminent then that is acceptable, however I still intend to try and find the real mafia until that time.

[Darthe]

I consider both DGB and Malp town tbh. Rob and AP as well. Not quite as sure of Rev. The other two I I'm less certain of.

[Darthe]

I have no freaking clue where my vote is going today. I am hating this endgame.

[Darthe]

I'm going to flip town. Rev, y u vote me?

[Darthe]

DGB where are you?

[Darthe]

By this logic, when I flip town will you volunteer to be the lynch candidate for tomorrow?

[Darthe]

Rob is actually pinging me now. AP, DGB, lets get this shit done. Fuck it, speed lynch me tomorrow if I am wrong.

unvote vote reverend

[Darthe]

Why do you feel that he will die if you wholly believe that rev is the last scum?

[Darthe]

Ok, so I'm scum because I think darthe must be scum?

Funny. Look at it from my pov, I see a town wagon with lots of town names on it. I actually think there is likely to be scum on that wagon. Obviously, if that is the case, it's darthe. I have a pool of one to pick from. Hence, confident read. How is that scummy exactly?

But I can die today, because then you only have one person left on that wagon who you don't know the role of. Darthe can go tomorrow for the win.

Here's why I'm town, by the way... AP is still alive. He's been meta checking me, I saw him browsing my other game twice over the last week. Why now would I NK rofl and not someone who is suspicious of me?

It's darthe. This whill become more obvious to you guys when you see my role. If not then the scum did very well to stay off the BC wagon.

goof - how on Earth can you hate Father Jack? You need some culture, woman.

Major push to get my lynched, use of outside meta (AP checking games), Logical failure (there must be mafia on this train, it is an assumption.. not logic), and a soft role claim.

[Darthe]

You've been saying that for a while Ron but quite frankly I can't find reason to give a shit about more rehashed cases on me. The point you seem to be missing, one that Rev is using as WIFOM, is that I am boned tomorrow if he flips town today. I will fucking self hammer all to hell if that is what's needed here but don't let this jerkwad make it another day if you want to cast the vote on me. Oh, and save the minuscule effort of a case, everybody freaking knows why they feel how they feel on me.

[Darthe]

Hah! Boo yah I lived through my first game on here! I am tickled.

[Darthe]

Agreed. I have had fun and am going to jump into another around here. My apologies for the odd play.

[Darthe]

I didn't feel that not voting was a huge issue. Way I saw it, if I'm town I attack you and await your reaction before voting. I was of course reaction baiting the town, but I thought it was well disguised as reaction baiting you, at least I was hoping the majority thought that. I didn't really care if one person alone was barking at me, unless that said person actually shows why I'm likely scum lol. I felt my attack on you was credible until you showed the town the BC wagon, which forced a change in target. Ideally I wanted darthe and malp left after today's mislynch, if I succeeded there I felt I had a reasonable chance of an unlikely victory. But it gets harder and harder to avoid scrutiny the less people there are, so I wasn't too expectant.

You wouldn't have gotten a mal mislynch, I don't think. He was obv-town in the last day. The only reason people focused on him (unfortunately me included) was because he was a miller and a little bit of odd Day 1 play.

Irony?

[Darthe]

^ lol.

I nominated Rob for rising star if someone wants to 2nd that one.

already done son

Tell me how and I will as well, he was so freaking town.

[Darthe]

I feel that I played odd D1 and got the hang of how you all play on here by the middle of D2 or so. It seemed to me that I was fairly consistent past that point.