NY 159: RUST game over

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob or me?

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob I take it you targeted Malp last night?

[AngryPidgeon]

for fuck's sake, why do people feel this compulsion to lie as town

Soooooooo, care to explain why you said this?

[AngryPidgeon]

If you were fucking brilliant, I wouldn't think you are scum. But I do.

Who?

[AngryPidgeon]

I need to sort this out in my head. But we are absolutely full claiming all actions today. There is no way that doesn't happen because:
1. Rob's shot didn't go through
2. Scum NK N1 didn't go through
3. CKD claims to have RB'd me (I will take the time to point out that doesn't outright clear me, but it means I didn't NK anyone)

P-edit: Yep, we are all full claiming Today.

[AngryPidgeon]

rob's is claiming a specific inconsistency with malp's claimed role and giving him the opportunity to change his claim. his is an exploratory effort (albeit one that i think was also fucking stupid to do), yours was a flat guilty claim.

What, and Rob wasn't? He flat out said that Malp hasa gun and is therefore not a miller and is therefore scum. What are you even talking about?

[AngryPidgeon]

because rob just admitted he lied as town, and because in an ongoing game that i'm dead in (i think you know the one) someone claimed watcher as a vt and i'm just fucking tired of the stupidity. don't try to act like its even reasonable to assume i was talking about you.

Yes, but you are now voting me on the grounds I was lying while openly admitting that townies gambit. In fact, Rob just did. And you don't give 2 fucks about him.

[AngryPidgeon]

@ Rofl: no offense to anyone, but I respect you as a player A LOT. I would not half ass a gambit against you like Rob did to Malp because I know you aren't bad at this game. You are still likely scum, your reaction to the claim was awful. CKD and Rob's night actions need to be factored into this CF though. And the fact that there was no scum NK N1.

WE ARE CLAIMING ALL ACTIONS/ROLES RIGHT NOW. POPCORN ROB

[AngryPidgeon]

Malp's last post was setting of new records in scumminess.

[AngryPidgeon]

Malp did you just assert that Rofl and I could both be scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm actually done posting until Rob claims his shit and popcorns it to someone, repeat X whatever. And I don't give a shit about your ego. I'm saying that I intended to go all the way with my claim. And if you think that your flip would incriminate me, then tell me why the fuck I'd do it. Rob's gambit was the same as mine.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya violating my self-imposed thing. You are so lucky CKD is fucking awful at this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

And here I was going to point out that if someone RB'd you and someone killed Taz, me being jailkept clears me via natural resolutions. Popcorn someone.

[AngryPidgeon]

>.>

Popcorn: CKD

[AngryPidgeon]

CKD, this post should take you like a minute tops. Why is it talking longer than that?

P-edit: typically with mass claims one person goes first and then chooses the next person who chooses the next person, etc. So I was telling you to choose the next person.

[AngryPidgeon]

I would like to point out that rofl said his role titlw was Jack of all Trades and not Town Jack of all Trades. I asked him to specifically claim the role title. Mine says Town Vanilla. I find it very unlikely his ACTUALLY says Town JoaT and he decided to just exclude it when asked to quote it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Not sure if idiot or scum. Why do you want PH to claim if you didn't track him anywhere.

[AngryPidgeon]

Drmy, just claim. Im not waiting for 13 people to log on in order.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why PH given that he didn't target anyone?

Rofl needs to be next honestly. The protect on Rob13 makes me once again happy with lynching rofl.

[AngryPidgeon]

@ Rob13, Malp's response to your GS doesn't make him town. Honestly, scum malp would know that claiming something non-miller at that point would get him lynched.

@Drmy, hes scum. I honestly would not have done it if I weren't sure. And his response to it has done nothing to make me feel better.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm

[AngryPidgeon]

Even if Rofl is an actual scum, what you did was highly Anti-Town. Please do NOT attempt this ever again.

Yes, well, miller policy lynches are anti-town and IMO out of the spirit of the game. But I honestly like you and I'm not going to get in a shouting match over that.

[AngryPidgeon]

I was responding to Reverend BTW.

[AngryPidgeon]

My "Uhhhhh" post was directed at the reverend. Not you. Since he had just claimed a 3rd miller.

[AngryPidgeon]

At least rofl needs to full-claim first.

And at drmy, please understand that from my perspective the BC lynch was a policy lynch. It really frustrated me that people were willing to sheep onto that wagon with a lot of the reasoning being that he is a miller claim and must die, etc. Some people made a case against him, but really he was obviously town. Like obviously. I actually can't believe we removed him from the game when if he had just claimed VT he probably would still be here. Its not fair to him, especially considering he played it 'by the book' and I was pissed off that no one would listen to me on that one. Please don't hold a grudge on me for this is all I'm trying to say. I got moderately upset after his flip. I still trust my judgement on it though, but I see your point too.

Malp called me scum and voted me. Then he suggested that rofl was also a scumread of his. That alone makes me ok with lynching him. If he can honestly fathom that I was bussing rofl today, then he clearly isn't thinking like town.

P-edit: reading.

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean, he even said that he wouldn't have claimed had Malpascp claimed first. What's the point in that? I don't see it.

Look, this is in the past and I'd prefer we not get upset over it anymore than we have to. I'm just trying to show you my point of view on everything so far.

And I 100% agree with him. If I were in a game with a miller claim I would absolutely think twice before claiming miller. I think I would ultimately decide to do it, but I understand the hesitation. Just look at how much people immediately jumped on the dichotomy D1 and started calling for PLs and saying that at least one of them had to be lying?

I keep saying I'm done arguing, but then I keep arguing.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Curious Karma Dog

Drmy, I really hope you don't think less of me for this. Thats all.

P-edit: I'm saying, subjectively, it partly felt that way to me. And that is why I was upset and inspired to take matters into my own hands. I'm not always right. I'm just trying to explain how I saw things the past Day.

[AngryPidgeon]

I was going to make the obligatory snarky comment about how you won't consider voting rofl unless I make a case, yet you are voting CKD w/o a case but I decided not to be that guy.

@Drmy: I can't wait for a future game where I actually have a legit claim and you will just give me the not-sure-if look. But honestly, if you ISO me I was slipping all over the place. I can point to several quotes when I was keeping it up that were obvious slips.

[AngryPidgeon]

Drmyshotgun protected rob N1. Rev, you scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

Anybody else think Revs last post is scum central?

[AngryPidgeon]

So, Im town too. Im on phone, but the sentiment that me/ckd has a scum and you could be wrong about which, is setting yourself up for chain mislynches if you are scum, we are town. And why are you so sure we are scum/town?

[AngryPidgeon]

^Possible good posting. I'll read when not at lunch. CKD/Rofl team is 100% possible. I was kind of doubting it in my mind since they have both claimed something. But CKD is still acting scummy as hell and if they are scum/scum then Rofl calling for a mass claim makes sense because he knew CKd could debunk my push.

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean honestly it does sound like Rofl knew I was gambiting but didn't expressly want to call me out on it since a CKD claim would flip the pressure on me.

[AngryPidgeon]

CKD is almost certainly a JoaT, but I mean 1xTrack, 1x

JK

RB is totally possible for scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

So he immediately counters asking Angry if he is agreeing to die when he flips town? If scum just faked a guilty on you, why would you start bargaining with them?

THIS. I was having trouble quantifying it when I pointed it out, but its very heavy appeal to fear. If rofl genuinely felt he was town and I am scum, then why would he appeal to me and not the town?

[AngryPidgeon]

Malp, were you aware that you are voting conf-town?

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean honestly it does sound like Rofl knew I was gambiting but didn't expressly want to call me out on it since a CKD claim would flip the pressure on me.

I don't understand what you mean here.

I'm saying imagine you are rofl and you are town. AP declares that you are conf-guilty and pushes you. What do you do? What did rofl do?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, you quoted my other post in 1281, Im dumb.

I'm saying if rofl/ckd are a team then Rofl would KNOW I was lying and would KNOW that a CKD claim would make me look bad.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im conftown. Cheery Gunsmith'd me. So either make a SK case on me despite their being no NKs to validate that, make a maf doctor case on me despite the Zabriel flip, or vote someone not me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler:

[AngryPidgeon]

I. have. a. Gunsmith. Negative. On. Me.

[AngryPidgeon]

You only wish you were that conftown

[AngryPidgeon]

angrypidgeon, if town loses this game, it will be your fault

Why? Nothing I've done had a lasting impact.

[AngryPidgeon]

till don't buy ckd as scum. claiming joat when he did, clearing prohawk, these are not things scum would be doing.

Rofl, you aren't this dumb. Ergo, you are scum. With CKD. He soft claimed D1 with no pressure on him just to AtF me. Town motivation behind that? And he didn't clear PH. He didn't track him anywhere. Thats like saying that his "J/K" cleared me (but you didn't think that). So why do you think that the track cleared PH?

[AngryPidgeon]

Uh huh. And letting you coast all game is totally protown. Because your Zab suspicions make you conf-town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why does CKD softclaim D1 for no reason and under no pressure? And if you say "why would scum be that dumb", my response will be "Exactly"

[AngryPidgeon]

But ya, more CKD votes. An ISO skim of his is obvscum. Its him/rofl. I guarantee it.

[AngryPidgeon]

No. I think you are a JoaT

I have a GS clear on me, you are voting conftown.

Probably PH, but if I were scum I would also potentially target him so moot point.

Once again, I have a GS clear on me. funny how Im the only person youve committed to a consistent scum read on and Im now conftown. Go me.

Fine, but you are still voting conftown.

No, Im conftown.

WIFOM

[AngryPidgeon]

You're song/dance is really cute though. (I always act this way, meta me and bullshit, etc, etc). Ya but I read into sentence structure and flow. You are failing at imitating your town meta right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

You do realize I have a Gunsmith clear on me? why are you voting me?

[AngryPidgeon]

I realize that not unvoting immediately is part of the song/dance, but keep it up. You're entertaining me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh dear. Backpedaling isn't part of your routine. Well go ahead, I can't think you are any more scummy than I do right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

If you push Malp or something for being a miller, that might work. Alternatively just distance from rofl as hard as possible.

[AngryPidgeon]

I have a GS clear on me. So either
A) Cheery and I are the last 2 scum and he decided to link us together for some reason
B) Im an SK.
C) Im a mafia doctor (despite there already being one)
D) Im a VT
So which is it? Multiple choice tests are fun.

[AngryPidgeon]

Are you kidding me rob. He was so obviously town. The last scum is in {rofl, malp, Darthe} guaranteed. Everyone else is obvtown. Except Josh...Hes just kind of around.

[AngryPidgeon]

I extensively ISO'd Rob/Malp/Darthe yesterday. My gut tells me its not Malp. I think hes just derp.

Darthe/Rofl both make me want to kill them. I guess I'll throw up some questions for them.

Better yet, Vig CKD, Pigeon, or CD.

Whoops! Meant to Put CD and accidentally slid that K in there lol, then I put it correctly after that.

Darthe, can you explain this slip. You explicitly mentioned CKD in your hit-list and then said you meant to say CD (Cheery Dog). You also explicitly mentioned him though. So what exactly happened here?

in what world does ckd scum come in here and blow up your investigation claim with his jailkeep claim if he is scum?

See, this actually makes me think its you know. Why DID CKD claim to stop me from getting an easy mislynch on you and then an easy mislynch on me the next day. He could have just kept his mouth shut. Little WIFOM here, but I cannot fathom why he wouldn't just let town me kill town you and then go for me D4.

Rofl, why did you say that CKD cleared PH by not tracking him anywhere, but did not say that he cleared me by JKing me (given that I therefore obviously did not make an NK)

[AngryPidgeon]

God, all these people thinking PV was scum. It was so obviously not the case. But I'm not being productive in saying it.

Darthe, what did you mean in this post:

unvote vote AngryPidgeon

and you are avoiding questions that you know the answer to but dont want to admit...you dont want to say I would probably be town if BC should flip scum. why is that? "blah blah blah scummy questions" or you dont want to admit that you think I am scum no matter any flip...which is obviously bullshit reasoning especially given the reason you "think" I am scum/


ANSWER THE QUESTION, if it makes it easier on you...

in a crazy alternate universe...if BC should flip SCUM, am I still scum..why?

stop stalling...avoiding...or whatever you are doing.

take a stance today...

Well, that was overly defensive. Throw more shit at other players and see if you can gain credibility by making one of them flail! What a perfect plan for anyone anti-town.

oh wait..

[AngryPidgeon]

Like honestly, Rofl, how did you start listing Prohawk as cleared once CKD tracked him nowhere. You know thats inconclusive (unless you admit to pushing me and believing 100% that I was town), so I don't understand how you can think PH is/was cleared by that unless it is a slip. Knowing CKD's alignment makes PH much less likely scum, although PH is definitely kind of on my radar still since CKD seems to like WIFOMy plays.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob. Rofl, started listing PH as conftown ever since PH was tracked nowhere. By the same logic, I should be cleared since I couldn't have made the NK if blocked. Its a double standard.

[AngryPidgeon]

i forgot that ckd had a no target track result on prohawk so move him up to the definitely town category

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: roflcopter

Naw, post 921 is still scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

There is no town motivation.

[AngryPidgeon]

Had this argument with Kimor in 1377 (who was scum lolzy enough). I don't look for scum motivation. I look for lack of town motivation. Because really, scums #1 primary main objective is to look town. And lying is hard. I don't think scum will often do things with blatantly trackable scum-motivation so much as they will do things that do not make sense from a town perspective. Like making PH conf-town when his buddy could have made the kill N1. In fact, given that PH was under heavy suspicion for the Dcore bit, why WOULDN'T his buddy make the kill.

[AngryPidgeon]

Although we now know that CKD was scum, which means PH is certainly not cleared by that at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

And why the hell is rofl now voting for a town-read despite Malp still being in the game. Or Josh or PaidPyro.

[AngryPidgeon]

I kind of doubt its Darthe because the first few posts of his ISO are all talking to/about CKD and not really anyone else.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, Q fucking Q. I want to point out how 100% policy and BULLSHIT the BC lynch was then.

He was so town it was unreal. PV was too for that matter. Neither of them gave a single fuck about what anyone thought about them = OBVTOWN.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Darthe

Rob, I think you deserve a best town performance nomination regardless of what happens here.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob, didn't you think that Darthe was cleared by Tazaro's gambit? This game is lolz.

I will admit that Darthe's hop on my rofl wagon yesterday is shady as hell.

Also I think Dcore specifically mentioned him in response to my initial catchup/reads post and said he was prob-town.

I like rofl's thinking on Darthe's hammer. That is one of the things I've had against him for a while now.

Rofl, why was Darthe a townread on D2?

[AngryPidgeon]

^ Ya, thats why I don't understand how people dropped suspicion of him after Tazaro revealed.

His response to it was null because Darthe knows damn well that he didn't target Zabriel with anything so...

[AngryPidgeon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21324

[AngryPidgeon]

And this is why Josh was a good Vig shot. Even if I think hes probtown.

No thoughts on the Darthe wagon?

[AngryPidgeon]

Guys, the last scum is still in Darthe, Malp, Rofl. Its literally one of those.

Cheery, that quote actually made me think hes scum. Rofl's entire interaction with the Dcore wagon is silly considering his lack of concern about Dcore up until the point he became a wagon.

[AngryPidgeon]

He voted for D-Core and at the same time said that he wanted to lynch Zab tomorrow, keeping momentum on Zab alive. Why would scum ever do that? He's pushing to have two less partners by Day 3. That has some pretty intense town motivation and no scum motivation.

The hilarious part is the obvious scum motivation.

[AngryPidgeon]

That you think hes town.

[AngryPidgeon]

You can't clear someone because they "must have bussed too hard"

Gah, I remember seeing some quote from rofl in another game about how he dislikes playing scum and typically busses hard anyways. Can't find it, but w/e.

[AngryPidgeon]

I wish I could clarify my gut reads better than I do.

But obviously your vig shot gives you a good clear.

Copying all of my reads D1.

I'm sure I could generate other reasons if I looked at your ISO.

Like honestly I thought Rofl was town all game until I saw the BC death and I looked back at his "AP could be scum with BC" statement, realized it made 0 sense, and it just kind of occurred to me that its him.

His interaction with the Dcore wagon for one thing. He kind of ignored Dcore for the most part until it finally started getting steam. At which point he acknowledged it and said it was 'ok' totally unprompted and with no further explanation. Then he hops on w/o QQing too much, which very unlike him. Then he immediately distrusts Dcore's claim? I'll admit I did too, but I was somewhat skeptical anyways.

Hes basically right when he calls it a cold read on him. And I still do not understand why he gave Darthe/PH passes for PR related reasons when really would PH be making the N1 kill given the suspicion on him? And how the hell did Darthe's reaction to Taz's claim clear him? Of COURSE Darthe knew Taz was lying.

[AngryPidgeon]

And PaidPyro is obvtown. Much like PV and BC. /AtE

[AngryPidgeon]

Hm, maybe I was thinking of disney villains when you said you dislike playing scum

Lol, butthurt. I don't give a shit if you connect me to obvtown BC or not. The point is that it was BS to even remotely assume that I would defend a buddy that was obviously going to die in the very near future regardless of anything.

But then again I know you often look for basic things like that, so I dunno.

P-edit: Its not that scum gets a benefit from it as I keep saying. Its that I think its an absolutely absurd statement for town to make. See, why would I defend BC so hardcore like that unless I was going for reverse cred or something.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll do some reading tomorrow but right now I don't feel comfortable at all with MillerS around.

I've been raised to not trust "millers" nothing personal, but I have my tunnelvision on and its pretty narrow.

I was the only person trying to get rid of the "Miller" claim before lylo. That "Miller" killed me and fucked everyone in the ass. It is pretty painful memory. You should read it sometime. Might amuse you.

I still think both Millers should disappear from the Town before Lylo and lynch them on-site should they survive till Lylo.

Can we like lynch fucking "Miller" right now?

bloodcovenant is still the scum claiming miller.

i demand the millers be sorted out no later than day three

those posts all happened before the second miller claim, which is in itself a great reason to be lynching bc

we need to get rid of Millers.

Quicklynch the fucking miller.

disappointed if we haven't solved the miller problem by the end of today

there is a miller problem. the problem is that both claimed millers are still alive. i want to live in a world where there are no claimed millers alive by day three.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes, but you cannot deny that you were the primary one responsible for the wagon. Sheep be sheeping after all.

But seriously, I don't care. He was obvtown for not caring what other people thought about him. His posts were transparent and not forced. Moot point because hes dead.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Rob - Your logic on Lyman scum is spot on so long as there are only 4 scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malp

I also concur with your malp reasoning. I don't feel like Darthe is scum.

False. In mini 1347 we had people saying Thor could not POSSIBLY be scum because he was on an extended V/LA over the night phase. Guess what? It was him! He told the mod who he wanted dead in advance.

But Josh is probably town. Malp vote is ok.

[AngryPidgeon]

Still, I won't accept activity as a reason to clear someone.

But hes town. So is PP.

Prohawk would actually be my 4th pick after above 3. Maybe even higher than that..

[AngryPidgeon]

But CKD cleared him! Or did he..

[AngryPidgeon]

Must have been a long time ago, didn't see it skimming your iso. Ill find it later.

[AngryPidgeon]

Well I disagree with some of your assumptions. I'll look over his ISO tonight.

ISO 9 is making me think you could be right, but ya. No one is sticking out to me as the clear last one right now. The only slight hiccup in my thoughts is that if PH is scum, then CKD's track claim was a little bold because (unless scum can kill and act in the same night) it means he was claiming something provably wrong. Maybe not though. IIRC he declined to fully comment on where PH was tracked to until it was obvious no one was going to claim otherwise.

P-edit: Ugh, BC lynch.

[AngryPidgeon]

My new read on Darthe: Weird behavior.

UNVOTE:

[AngryPidgeon]

Gosh, its you isn't it? It would make sense.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm coming down with a flu or something, so I may end up lurking this Day. Sorry about that.

Ummmmm. Malp isn't a terrible vote. At this point I'd actually go for him or PH over anyone else I think. Darthe: still weird behavior.

I'll try and read up at least right n0ow even if I'm too unmotivated to make a substantial post immediately.

[AngryPidgeon]

What is it about that that bothers you guys around here? Most people would see not including yourself as slanted because it ignores the influence of your role where I play most of my games. Also, is their any particular way that you all manage to do ISO's besides a multiquote?

Why do you care about analyzing yourself? If you are town then you know your alignment and don't care. If you are scum, then it looks like you are going for towncred by being apathetic about your posts intentionally. That being said, I kind of think you are town right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

It is interesting to me that you wish to hear from Lyman.

Why?

[AngryPidgeon]

Hm, I kind of like Cheery's last post. It does mean we need a Josh Lyman claim today.

The setup would be fairly anti-town if there are 2 millers and Josh is vanilla.

Ugh, I am so wishy-washy about the last scum.

People that I'm fairly confident are town:
Paid Pyro
Rob
Cheery
Me

People I at least mostly think are town at this point:
Darthe
Rofl
Josh

Which leaves:
Malp
PH
Reverend

Actually kind of leaning Reverend.

VOTE: The Reverend

Please give me a little bit of time to reread some ISOs though.

[AngryPidgeon]

It is interesting to me that you wish to hear from Lyman.

Why?

Why would you ever want to hear from anyone?

Because they might be scum lurking?

[AngryPidgeon]

Agreed. /check in post.

I do want a chance to read some ISOs later this week.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, DGB. Everyone has pretty much claimed. I recommend doing so.

Rofl;: You targeted Peregrine with your RB right?

[AngryPidgeon]

For some reason rofl's post makes me like the Cheery vote.

Let me look back at his posts. I don't get though how the setup can be what it is if DGB is a VT.

[AngryPidgeon]

How can the town power really be

1x Vig
Joat (1BP, 1RB)
joat(1 Vig, 1 Cop)
Doctor
Millerx2

Vs

Doctor
Joat (Track/RB)

Like..Thats MAYBE balanced without the millers. With the millers its horribly scum sided.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh this game. I hate having only 1 scum left. My radar just kind of goes everywhere. I'll put some serious effort in before the end of the weekend. Plz no hammers before then.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because night kills show a distinct lack of an SK. And if there are 5 people on the scumteam, ESPECIALLY given the lack of town power, then this game is rigged to the point I wouldn't even count it on my record.

[AngryPidgeon]

WE DONT HAVE TO LYNCH MILLERS BUT THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT THAT BC WAS A PL.

[AngryPidgeon]

I figured it out guys. I actually figured it out.

for serious. UNVOTE: Rev

Spoiler: People that it CANNOT BE

Roflcopter - Sorry for the gambit. But if you are scum, then game is not balanced. Also I was just wrong about my thoughts. Its not outsdie your realm of townieness to connect me to BC for defending him
Rob - Setup spec, is obviously a Vig
Me - Cleared by Cheery, and setup spec

Spoiler: People I really doubt it could be

Cheery - Setup spec again. Also I just don't think its him for DC interactions
Paid Pyro - Posts read genuine. His suspicions read genuine even if I don't like them.
Reverend - Reaction to vote was good. Joke miller claim probably not from scum. Other good reasons too!

Spoiler: I guess it could be these guys, but I'm leaning against it

Darthe - Because Dc mentioned him after I called out 3/4 of the scum team. Also I just don't see it today, but maybe.
Prohawk - Eh, could be. His interactions with the DC/Zabriel wagons D1 were awkward, but CKD blatantly connecting himself to PH makes it less likely.
Malp - Setup spec most indicates its him. Because really, without either miller this would have been a little scum-sided. With TWO millers its very scum sided. But Im not feeling it from his posts anyhow.

[AngryPidgeon]

It really isn't. I mean I agree that it should be taken with a grain of salt, but there is definitely something to it.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP:

Flip me and BC and add Darthe to the town side and

then

it would be a good list.

Does DC really drop the name of his 4th scum team member here after I said it was CKD/Him/Zabriel?

[AngryPidgeon]

My gut (I know how much you trust that) tells me its DGB. I could be really off. But I'm going through the issue that I don't really have any super scum reads. Just mild to strong townreads. DGB is kind of the odd one out in that I don't really have a read on her.

And I know some of it is her style, but some of her intro posts made me

Inb4 Josh Lyman couldn't have made an NK.

[AngryPidgeon]

God, Darthe is town. I think. Like I just don't see him scum right now.

If he is scum then he is WIFOMing me under the table really hard right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

3 lynches would take us to Mylo

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok so how does Josh send the NK if he hasn't logged on? Because that seems like a solid town tell to me. Can't see goofball being scum here.

Read mini 1347. Slandaar refused to believe it could be Thor in LyLo because he was on an extended V/LA over the night phase. He pm'd his actions in ahead of time. I realize Josh is less involved than Thor and was more flaky than simply being V/LA, but I refuse to let someone be cleared by that logic. I think it is a fault on the Mod's end if someone can be cleared due to inactivity and inability to submit a NK.

[AngryPidgeon]

: /

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I can kind of see Cheery targeting me maybe. But I don't see why he didn't use it N1 on Malp or someone really. But Cheery was one of the first on Dcore IIRC.

[AngryPidgeon]

God, people need to stop looking for scum motivation and realize that scum's primary objective is to look town by any means necessary. And I officially hate the word compute.

CKD stopping my push on ROFL had no 'scum motivation' unless ROFL is scum in which case why is nobody voting him? Weeeeee

But why didnt you use it N1 Cheery?

P-0edit: I think just Vigs and Mafia (that arent mafia doctors) do. And maybe PGOs.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't think its Cheery.

[AngryPidgeon]

DGB 2016

VOTE: DGB

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm voting scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

DGB votes. Thanks. This Cheery push earns her a cunning manipulator if she actually succeeds with it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Well, as the king of phrasing/gut reads, I'll say I have no problem with anything he has said today. The setup is already scum sided, I'll be surprised if any of the PRs are fake.

Cheery's night actions are NOT suspicious. I recently got out of a game in which there were 4 1-shot town PRs and only one was used on the first night. (And it was a mini). I wasn't a holy unreasonable target. I would have GS'd rofl if I had it (clearly that makes me scum for targeting someone largely considered obvtown).

Why would he stop the push on me by claiming? I mean, yes, its possible he faked it. But I highly highly doubt it. Highly. I just don't think Cheery would throw himself out there to prevent a lynch on me unprompted.

DGB gives me all sorts of phrasing/gut reads. I know being a leader is part of her playstyle, but it just feels forced right now given that she JUSt replaced in and hasn't read a whole lot. Her Cheery push is scummy and she should feel scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because I don't think GS / miller roles are opposing roles. Why have a 0 shot then with 2 millers?

[AngryPidgeon]

As for the town-cred, Cheery would get boatloads of it while making someone obv-town. The "making someone obv-town" would be very pro-town and make him likely not scum if you were not already such obv-town. People were pissed with your gambit. Besides rofl, I don't think anyone honestly wanted to lynch you because you looked scummy. It was mostly a policy lynch push - a push led partially by CKD-scum, IIRC. Essentially, scum loses very little by making a obv-town into a confirmed-town but gains a lot in town-cred. This isn't anti-town, per se, but there's a big scum motivation for Cheery's actions.

I honestly find it FAR less likely that Cheery saw an opportunity as scum here for town cred and jumped on it. I really strongly doubt it.

Yes, it

could

be a good play for scum, but I find it highly unlikely it is a play scum Cheery would jump on. Its just very unlikely to occur to him IMO. And scum is more focused on looking town, not hatching devious schemes. Your argument is that it would be a reasonable scum move. I agree. I just find it far far less likely that Cheery would think to make it on the spot like that.

So, no, I won't vote Cheery Today. And the miller spec has NOTHING to do with GS spec.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cheery's contribution as claimed gunsmith could be easily scum-motivated, but it also shows how he should have used his action night 1 given the circumstances because of how heavily it would have helped out the town.

This is a fallacy, Rob. Come on. Just because it is POSSIBLE as a scum play does not make it the case or even LIKELY.

And just because Cheery should have used his ability N1, doesn't mean someone will always make the optimal play. In this case, I think targeting a Miller probably was the optimal N1 play though.

[AngryPidgeon]

I will be noting the irony here postgame

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, why do you feel DGB would push so hard if she's scum? If there a perfectly acceptable townie on the block then why push for another townie. I think she reads town at this point.

She is trying to immitate her town games. She knows at least rofl and I have played with her. If she decided to take backseat and sheep, then I know rofl would have jumped on her.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh should I have let PP explain? My bad.

No, there was nothing suspicious about the comment. Like at all. And PP is one of my best townreads right now, no reason to let people go convincing themselves that his speculation about DGB-scum is some kind of freudian slip when it isn't.

[AngryPidgeon]

Most suspicious people in thread:

DGB. Prohawk.

Secondary after them is Malp/Darthe

[AngryPidgeon]

Its literally PH/DGB. One of those 2. Malp and Darthe are distant possibilities. Cheery is town and should feel town.

[AngryPidgeon]

I really think its PH. Hes doing just barely enough to not be called for lurking. And he isn't really pushing any suspicions, just coasting nicely. And his D1 stance on Dcore is still unforgivable.

[AngryPidgeon]

If people are going to try and argue that SCUM CKD cleared PH with his hypothetical tack then they will be laughed at by me. The fact that CKD was so eager to out his PH targeting results only makes me think it was a distancing ploy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not going to be able to convince you all of DGB/PH am I? We have < 2 days.

Intent to hammer by the end of today.

[AngryPidgeon]

So Cheery, you scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

cough, cough, Darthe is being pretty obvtown right now, cough. Yall should feel bad about lynching Cheery.

[AngryPidgeon]

ap, just be quiet. we get it. you have different opinions from everyone else who is remotely conftown. feel free to gloat in the endgame if you turn out right. you're not convincing anyone.

I will. I will.

I cannot believe this lynch. The setup makes zero sense if one of the claimed PRs is lying.

And seriously look at PH's play and tell me he is doing something that isn't gliding off a nice warm current of towncred.

[AngryPidgeon]

Do PH next, do PH next!

[AngryPidgeon]

To divide the vote? I don't know. I don't actively think about gaining an advantage with my play when Im scum. I think about trying to look town. His interactions with the Dcore wagon make him look less all-knowing and therefore more town.

[AngryPidgeon]

DGB is letting me have it my way /burger king Tomorrow, so we will win when PH is lynched. Come. on. He is lurking and not in an even remotely town-motivated way.
P-edit: Ok But itll have to be next game day because Im at work. (lol)

P-p-edit: Well, yes. Its more powerful than a VT still. And the setup is not balanced (in my not that much experienced opinion) if everyone is telling the truth.

And look at PH's opinions on Cheery's claim not making sense because he would have to be a 2shot since there are 2 millers. DUH? The hell did that absurd opinion come from.

[AngryPidgeon]

inb4

[AngryPidgeon]

Naw, Rev and PP are obvtown.

I would go PH, Malp, Darthe. In that order.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob, come on. I realize my Rofl read was bad. But stop ignoring PH. He has done nothing town this game.

He is tomorrow's lynch, ESPECIALLY if I die tonight. And ESPECIALLY if anyone brings up WIFOM related to me dying. But really its either me or you going tonight.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hm. Well Apparently he was shot N1. That info could be important. But IIRC his suspects were zabriel/bc back then.
Hi robbie.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hm. Well Apparently he was shot N1. That info could be important. But IIRC his suspects were zabriel/bc back then.
Hi robbie.

Not necessarily. I was doc-protected and a major target considering all my reads were essentially the scum team and I successfully pushed through the DC lynch. Drmy could have protected me from the shot.

Yes, necessarily. Rofl was 1xBP which means they have to shoot him twice for him to die. Or the last scum is a strongman in which case fuck dis game.

P-edit: reading.

[AngryPidgeon]

iirc, he was tracked by ckd.

Reactionface.jpg
You do realize the CKD was SCUM. He may never have targeted PH. He may not have had a track. He maybe did do both, and PH is still scum and CKD lied about it!

Prob towns:
PP
Reverend
Me
Rob

Leaving...
Malp
Darthe
DGB
Prohawk
P-edit: I just typed out some spec on Rofls death but deleted it. I want to hear PH's opinion on the Rofl death.

[AngryPidgeon]

For some reason PH unvoting in his post strikes me as odd.

[AngryPidgeon]

Preemptive veto of the PP support that appears to be growing. Guy is obvtown as shit, sorry.

[AngryPidgeon]

Prohawk, you thought that Cheery's claim was fake because he only had 1 shot and there are 2 millers. Does that logic also imply that Malp could be scum, fake claiming. (Thus 1 miller = 1 GS shot instead of 2 millers = 2 GS shots).

Do you still think that Malp is likely fake claiming Miller based on your logic with GS/miller balancing?

[AngryPidgeon]

Also, why is DGB so obvtown to you? I don't see any super analysis of her in your recent posts.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rob, notice that PH lists DGB as a good scum NK. Skim his ISO. He really doesn't provide any hard thoughts on her yesterday. Why is he automatically assuming shes so obvtown that shes a good NK?

[AngryPidgeon]

>.>

I won't rage too hard at a Darthe lynch. Hes pretty much #2 on my list. PP I would rage about.

But DGB, I'll ask you too. Do YOU find it odd that PH never mentioned you until I asked him about NK spec and hes not saying you are so obvtown (even on par with conftown me/rob) that you were a good NK?

[AngryPidgeon]

now* not not

[AngryPidgeon]

Not really, you'd only have to read from when you replaced in.

[AngryPidgeon]

DGB/rofl are potentially the best kill targets because they're definitely not on the "to-lynch

So, hes basing his DGB read purely on other people's opinions of her?

[AngryPidgeon]

@PH: Sigh. Your responses are not doing anything to make me think differently. And calling for a vote on you from a conf-town is ? Are you trying to ruffle my feathers to make me ragey? I just don't understand.

[AngryPidgeon]

Me/Rob.

[AngryPidgeon]

CD flipped 1x GS and claimed to use it on me.

Rob is pretty much conftown since he Vigged Peregrine.

[AngryPidgeon]

: |

:/

:\

Can I lynch him anyways : (

The point is he clearly thinks DGB is town because he thinks she is a good NK. The fact that he never mentioned her before weirds me out. IMO you/me/rofl were the only targets that made ANY sense.

I think Malp is town. Darthe lynch ok, I guess. But one of us is dying tonight.

[AngryPidgeon]

Riddle me this, riddle me that. Wheres the scum motivation in buddying the only person to have a town read on him (by pushing my target) and playing aggressively when the Darthe lynch is going swimmingly.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Rob: LaL is used interchangeably a lot of the time.

Anyways, PH begging me to vote him is a good scum tactic at this point because:
1. Its usually something town does (and PH knows I hold that opinion I believe because of drmyshotgun doing it to me D1)
2. It discredits my vote if I throw it down all OMGUSy without making a case.

Rob is suffering from a huge case of confirmation bias about PH's DGB read.

PP = town is mostly a gutread on my end. But his play looks genuine. I don't see any signs of him trying to actively look town or appease anyone. Hes playing aggressive suddenly, which would be a really silly scum tactic.
Kind of ocming around to a DGB townread. I guess my order would be
PH
Darthe
Malp
....

After that I got nothing.

I'll make a case this weekend or something.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rev....you scum? That was an awful lot of IIoA and conclusion-jumping-to.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh, ugh, ugh, Im doing that shit in 1347 where I start losing perspective when there is only 1 scummy left. Actual post later.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Reverend

Ok, Im actually fairly confident in this one.

But AP, we demand a wall post! Rofl, gimme some of your mary jane : (. then maybe.

[AngryPidgeon]

DGB, what do you think of Reverend agreeing with PP's VCA analysis so heavily?

I think PP's PoEing down the wagon on BC probably comes for a town perspective. The analysis looks genuine unless PP is scum and trying REALLY hard to line up a mostly unpopular lynch Tomorrow. But I honestly don't think he would be that blunt about it as scum.

Whatever. DGB being a damn near universal townread for _reasons_ makes me think shes likely town (because someone who is scum must be ignoring her, really) AP, that logic sucks. Eh. It makes sense it my head.

Lets not lynch Darthe today. hes towntelling like a fucking boss:

By this logic, when I flip town will you volunteer to be the lynch candidate for tomorrow?

I'm going to flip town. Rev, y u vote me?

I have no freaking clue where my vote is going today. I am hating this endgame.

[AngryPidgeon]

Rev replaced Scooby who was all but AFK.

Malp is not a replacement. I think.

[AngryPidgeon]

Actually this is good work pyro. I think it's likely that scum helped lynch BC, and ckd wasn't part of that wagon.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes.

[AngryPidgeon]

No its revered, He is blatantly agreeing with the wagon analysis done by someone he thinks may be scum despite that meaning he is the scum on the wagon if darthe flips town? And he doesn;t give a singular shit about that? Hes literally that confident in a darthe scum flip? Not buying it.

[AngryPidgeon]

No its revered, He is blatantly agreeing with the wagon analysis done by someone he thinks may be scum despite that meaning he is the scum on the wagon if darthe flips town? And he doesn;t give a singular shit about that? Hes literally that confident in a darthe scum flip? Not buying it.

Stupid play cause he loses if Darthe flips town and we lynch him next.

All Darthe can say is "I will flip town, I will flip town, just you see".

Exactly. He cant be scum can he.,

[AngryPidgeon]

It was a very thinly veiled ploy for "I wouldn't seal my own fate as scum would I?"

I just got out of a town game that I was in a PoE pool with like that. I was paranoid as fuck that the other guy wouldn't flip scum (despite thinking he would)

[AngryPidgeon]

Reads list:

Very upset with these people
Rob13
Prohawk

Moderately upset at these people
DGB
Malp
Darthe

Scum
TheReverend

Ok, PLEASE let me have this one. I guarantee you Rev's reaction is not town. I recently got out of an open game (as town) and I was in a pool of 3 people, one of which was scum. I thought it was disturbed but I kept poking Mhork and being edgy as hell because I wasn't 100% certain of Disturbed=scum so I kept preemptively accusing Mhork and declaring my intent to vote him if Disturbed flipped town. (We had already settled on the Disturbed lynch).

Point being, Reverend is acknowledging that he is in a similar pool and using it as justification to vote Darthe. He is acting 100% confident that Darthe is scum. There is no way town Rev would be that certain of his Darthe read. I guarantee it. I was so paranoid in that open, and I was even pretty sure that Disturbed WAS scum. And yes, my comparison is a little loose, but the basic premise is identical: He should not have so much faith in his Darthe read.

"But, AP, if Rev is scum, then Darthe is town! So he must be town to think that Darthe could be scum so strongly"
Wrong: he is posturing. In fact, he is outright avoiding a position that a lot of people would find scummy (Preemptively backpedaling on the Darthe read) but should be totally natural for town.

So you 2 need to stop outright disappointing me and vote Rev.

@Rob: Its not the same thing. Darthe is just appealing to emotion and fear. Not the same thing at ALL.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wrong. Vote him. Ill vote your scum list in order if you die

[AngryPidgeon]

The fact that Rev asked someone to hammer him but did not volunteer to self hammer makes him scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Uh huh. Because Im totally going to care who hammers you when Im squawking for someone to do it. And you actively asked for someone to hammer you. There really is no difference.

Sorry PH/Rob, but you guys need to man up and hit the button. Darthe is like a distant second possibility.

P-edit: Yes it does. Nothing is 100% sure and a lot of things are personality based. But there is no way Rev asks to be hammered like that as town (in the way he did).

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, Id hate to be in that position.

Nice save by PP there.

And that is a terrible spot to replace into too.

You were a 1x Strongman?

[AngryPidgeon]

FTR - AP, I played against my usual meta because this was my third game, which happened to be quite a bit of content to keep up with and I knew I wouldn't be able to keep up with my usually style.

This is why I need to take my own advice and never use meta like that.

[AngryPidgeon]

^ lol.

I nominated Rob for rising star if someone wants to 2nd that one.

[AngryPidgeon]

Not to QQ (since town won anyhow) but I feel the setup was a little scum-sided. I think 2 millers in the same game is pretty anti-town. (2 is especially bad because people are going to assume one is lying since 2 millers in one game is very uncommon). Also once one flips town, people will want the other to go down. So yeh.

In the mafia discussion sub-forum there is a stickied topic at the top "2010 scummies nominations"

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4487569

[AngryPidgeon]

I think the setup was interesting and mostly balanced. I honestly think it needed one miller less than it did. The fact that both millers will CC the other is just an extra added bit of derp that could likely set town way back.

[AngryPidgeon]

Haha, the town performance was like a sine wave this game.

Day 1: Excellent.
Day 2: Derp
Day 3: Derp.....Excellent save by Rob
Day 4: Derp
Day 5: Excellent.

I'll get used to Rofl eventually : P

Rofl is one of those players that I always have to squint at really carefully (like Mastin, Pine, Uber Ninja).

[AngryPidgeon]

He was very town Day 3 and onwards

(Not voting all of D2 is a towntell if anything, but I wasn't going to say it because I knew that pointless arguments would ensue)