Open 466: Nomination Mafia - Town Wins!

[Thor665]

/Forsooth.

[Thor665]

Vote: TopGun12

Because I think it will be an easier flash wagon to build.
Let's speed lynch him.

[Thor665]

Oh, just "anyone" and not 'you'?
And it's only a little scummy?

Vote is serious now.

[Thor665]

Oh, just "anyone" and not 'you'?

Explain how his choice of words is scummy in this case.

Simple - he's distancing from it.

I am fine if he has issues with me calling for a speed lynch, no surprise there. But for some reason he didn't call my specific act (wanting him speed lynched) as scummy, but instead called the general act (wanting anyone speed lynched) as scummy.

That makes me think he went through a mental connection of saying something because he wanted it to sound generally townish.
"It's bad to lynch town"
As opposed to;
"It's bad to lynch me (I am town)"

If you grok the distinction.

[Thor665]

Nah, if we lynched scum it would be awesome.
That's the way it works. Lynch town *booo!* Lynch scum *huzzah!*
It's in the site rules somewhere.

Also, I don't think you grok WIFOM.
Also, I think my assumptions are as good (and, indeed, better) than yours.

[Thor665]

How many of my town games have you read?

[Thor665]

EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN ONE YOU SMURF!!!!!


*cough* *cough*

Okay I've read exactly one game. But the theroy holds anyway.

Orly?

"Who should I sheep and would it be a good idea to lulzhammer Rach right now?"

"Who should we be lynching, I'd like to sheep someone and then later claim it was my own brilliant plan."

"Let's 1 v 1 and see what happens."

"Who should I help speed lynch to solve both problems at once?"

"Excellent, we're speed lynching Arugula."

"We can rage lynch Benmage later"

Which comments are from me as scum and which are from me as town?
I'll wait.

[Thor665]

WIFOM in that when one does something decidedly town (or scum) it could be to appear the other way.

Actually, no.
It's getting caught up in the trap of thinking that they know you would take it one way and so did it that way to influence you...but then you have to ask if they knew *that* and thus did it that way to reverse influence you and...WIFOM.

Doing an action that can be interpreted two different ways is not wifom at all - it's reality.

Speed lynch advocacy could be viewed in the same light: If it's obvious scum tell, then obviously scum wouldn't do it. In other words, when Devourer asked if you would do it if it was obvious scumtell, THAT was WIFOM.

That is potentially wifom - except he has clearly come to a conclusion in his own mind, making it, at worst, an attempt to toss you into wifom...or, at best, an attempt to make you justify your stance...which is pro-town.

But see, by speed lynching, we have less to go on. We can accomplish more going forward if we use this day fully than if we speed lynch and gather little to no info today.

Maybe.
I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

And your assumptions are Smurf since I'm town.

I'm not seeing it yet.

What's your read on aceofspades?
If you're willing to buss him I'll unvote you.

[Thor665]

1. Town
2. Scum
3. Town
4. Town
5. Town

Giving you a vague 2/5 accuracy on those calls - and also showing me asking for speedlynches twice as town.

Which begs the question, what language am I using that is my 'scum language' and what game is it from?
Not that I doubt you.
But I doubt you.

[Thor665]

Which begs the question, what language am I using that is my 'scum language' and what game is it from?
Not that I doubt you.
But I doubt you.

[Thor665]

I'm referring to the one where you monologue in the Mafia QT for about 8 bazillion posts.

Sadly, that doesn't actually narrow it that much for me.

Plus you have yet to explicitly counter my calling you scum. You instead are clouding the air.

Yeah, me pointing out that your meta case has no backing and is based off fluff was *totally* not me countering your case on me.

Frankly I pulled that comment out of my Smurf because

And then you admit it's fluff after I already proved as much and still are trying to claim I didn't address it.

So...

[Thor665]

Unvote: Top12Gun
Vote: aceofspades

And balance is restored.

[Thor665]

Serious vote.

[Thor665]

The level of derp in this game is already at frightening levels.

I'm just going to note that more people should be sheeping me.

[Thor665]

I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

So were you serious with your vote advocating speed lynching?

I dunno - I've never managed to get a speed lynch when I asked for it.

[Thor665]

I'll agree they're both terrible, I don't think that's a debate point.

But look at Ace - he calls me out for not doing something, then admits my point about it was correct...and somehow I'm scum because of that exchange. Does not compute.
You seem to have play experience with him - does he lack any sense of internal logic as town?

[Thor665]

Conversely, just to be the advocate - T12's case is pretty silly. But, you don't actually need to squint to grok what he's saying. The worst I could say there is that he doesn't understand what he's talking about as far as tells go - but there's internal logic with how he's reacting to those tells, which tends to suggest that he believes what he's saying, and that suggests he's town for this push because he's attempting to scumhunt in the best way he can.

Ace is blatantly lying/trolling and seems to be banking on acting so bad that he shouldn't be run up while admitting he's playing immensely scummy. That means it's his playstyle (and a shoddy one at that) but th elack of logic in how a tell flows shows that he's just in attack mode and doesn't care why he gets there. Look at the hop to T12 for no reason - he did it to push the lynch and didn't want to be held accountable.

[Thor665]

I think he was dead ****ing serious. That's why I'm on him, or at least a large part of it.

Why no commentary about me providing proof that I make that request as town?
If it's such a big part of your case on me...wouldn't you want to explore that?

Also, if you're so convinced Ace is my buddy you should be sheeping me. I am known to hard bus Day 1 sometimes.

[Thor665]

I don't see how in hell town would make that request at all.

You don't see why, as you make an attack on me, I wouldn't ask you to justify how that attack works considering it's obviously a fail tell as regards me.
At least, you couldn't see me asking that as...town.


What am I missing here?

@Rainbow - you didn't answer my question about Ace, whassup?

[Thor665]

Please provide links to the posts/threads where the quotes originated.

Why, are you calling it a scumtell you need to research now? The question is why, if it's the core of his case, he isn't asking this.

[Thor665]

I'd rather see his response when absolute concrete proof is laid out before him than watch him show a scumtell over and over again that he has already emitted.

There's already concrete proof. I literally already provided the quotes, all that's left is to go back and do the links.
You'd have to imagine me to be the worst scum ever born to be lying at that stage - so all you're requesting is for me to go do work in order to slightly smooth over a piece of already poured cement.
I refuse because I am lazy.

But, yeah, his responses are not making me happy after I literally just defended his internal logic, and I agree they are dodgy...I was just kind of trying to point that out to the masses in general.

@Rainbow - so, outside of 'lulz, volatile' what's your read on Ace if any?

[Thor665]

That's funny - probably I skipped the 5th one when I did mine as it would make sense when i got to the last one just to go for my last quote. Don't know which one he skipped. It's actually not really strange in any way, at least that I can tell.

[Thor665]

"I acted scummy to lure scum into voting me, for only scum would vote an obvious looking scum on Page 2! Also though, if Thor gets lynched and flips town, I'd just like to point out that...heh, I may have been wrong. Sorry about that!"

[Thor665]

@Ace - while we're at it, why don't you address (in a non intentional trying to look scummy way) Top12Gun's case on me, and his choice to ignore the meta affecting it. What do you make of that? (again, post trying to sound like town)

[Thor665]

Uh-huh...

[Thor665]

Daaaaw, I always give people town reads for buddying and sheeping me.

[Thor665]

To be honest, I might be being sarcastic about giving you that town read. I'll check and let you know.
Also...you breadcrumbed being VT...that's a new one on me.

[Thor665]

Wow.

Can you explain how I acted as if I knew you were town? Because you're literally saying town should be voting you so it has to be something else I did, yeah? What was it, specifically?

[Thor665]

You do notice that you're not even managing to quote me doing a deliberate WIFOM there?
Hack.

[Thor665]

Yes, how scummy I am when interpreted through someone else's opinion of my play
That is total WIFOM from me.


What's your read on aceofspades?

[Thor665]

I agree that there is a lot of VI here.
Sadly, I am having a hard time wading through it all.

Literally everyone voting me looks quite arguably like scum, and I know that's not true for one of them and likely not for two of them.
I know Top12Gun stands out for openly declaring he was backing a case that had been disproved and that he didn't want to consider reality - but how do you rule out Ace and Name User there?
Ace, for reasons already discussed, and Name for putting someone at L-1 for introducing WIFOM...when it is blatantly obvious I wasn't even part of the WIFOM situation other than doing an action that some people decided was more WIFOM than other actions, and then justifies it because I had "full knowledge" of putting in the WIFOM - bwuh?

I'm lost, can you help rule the pair of them down to lesser reads for me?

[Thor665]

I guess I'm happy for a policy hammer that doesn't involve 'Thor looks town so he must be scum'.

I agree that if Ace flips scum you're practically confirmed (and I am confirmed) and probably Top12Gun needs to go.

If I meta you will I find you hammering quickly as town, scum, or both?

[Thor665]

This is actually kind of funny because I'm not sure if the evidence totally clears you or totally damns you.
The list of available lynches came up so quickly that clearly scum had done some pre-conversation about who was going on the chopping block. Makes me feel like it was 'if X is lynched than A, B, C, if Y is lynched than A, C, D' sort of deal.

Why the hell is Toroid here?

Also, you did dodge my meta question though, whassup?

[Thor665]

Okay, reading back I know why Toroid is here.
At least we'll have fun conversation tomorrow.

@Rainbow
@Toroid

Before one of us gets skunked;

Devourer is cum
Paired with Top12Gun/Name User

Discuss.

[Thor665]

Devourer is *scum even.
Egads!

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

But, yeah, It's either Devourer - or you have scum balls the size of casaba melons, or Rainbow is really lolsilly scum.

Name it's more for the oddity of his vote. Though, as usual, I still can't get any clear reads through all the newb fuzz in the air - but his case was just laughable. But...so was Top12Gun's. I kinda lean in favor of User, simply because *literally* every single player who expressed suspicion of Top12Gun is here in this lynch pool, and to my mind that tends to clear him unless he's really unsubtle scum, and that seems an insane level of unsubtle.

[Thor665]

I'll be honest - the parts where we're agreeing (Toroid too) is because I'm dead serious when I say none of your cases make any sense.

So...wanna address how I already proved your suspicion is meaningless and silly? Just because it's a new day doesn't mean you get to now act like the suspicion is justified simply because it's older. I would actually love to see you doing any sort of scumhunting at all...or maybe explain how what you're doing *is* scumhunting? That would be sexy.

[Thor665]

If Dev, myself, and Toroid are all town - you believe nothing but town voted to lynch Aces
Discuss.

[Thor665]

Okay, reading back I know why Toroid is here.

And why is that?

Because, as I already discussed, the Top12 thing, that's the connecting thread to everyone on the lynch wagon. It's a setup - duh. Try to keep up and then offer opinions thereupon.

Please explain your reasoning behind this. Besides the fact that I'm cum. Please keep that a secret.

I believe scum voted Aces.

Who are you referring to here?

That would be Toroid - the guy I was talking to.

[Thor665]

@Top12Gun - while you're ignoring my meta - could you also drop me a link to any completed scum games of yours?

[Thor665]

As for your reasoning being obvious, you're the one who stated the question in the first place and you never gave a clear linkage to the answer. I'm not sure why it's strange for me to want clarification.

while Thor has argued that putting all of the players that had stated suspicions against Top makes Top less suspicious

::trollface::

I'll want to see you explain how Name User is buddying Top12Gun after you get your feedback from him.

@Toroid - why didn't you ask Devourer about his town read on me?
And, yeah, like I said, doubtful you have them.

[Thor665]

You called out Rainbow on her call - I would have thought you would have paid equal attention to someone else making the same call.
Just me?

[Thor665]

VOTE: Toroid.

I'll want to see you explain how Name User is buddying Top12Gun after you get your feedback from him.

Is there a reason why I shouldn't explain it now?

You seemed to indicate you were trying to keep some reads hidden - if the answer is 'no' though, please answer asap.

[Thor665]

I can see the push while hiding angle.

I kind of thought there was a difference in the cases though. Top12Gun's was about the request for quick lynching specifically, and then User's was about me trying to ride the WIFOM train. Basically one called me scum for doing an 'obvious scum action' and the other called me scum for doing an 'obvious scum action to try to look town' which, is similar, but struck me as different attacks.

Also, with, what, three pages or something, how much variety could they really have at that stage? Is it even scummy to begin with? I seem to recall a lot of the Ace votes were all due to rather similar reasons, yeah?

[Thor665]

It actually makes sense insomuch as Rainbow is saying that I am obv. town (and, also, I suspect Rainbow believes they will win in the 1v1 with you)
If we think everyone who was nommed was town then it really is about just picking the lesser town as the lynch.
I'll admit I'm leaning towards agreement with Rainbow's call there - mostly because his catch on Top12Gun is actually really good and I quite agree with it.

Trust me - I would much rather lynch a number of players than you or Rainbow right now, but it just isn't an option.

What do you think of Rainbow's point on Top12Gun?
Also, if that makes you think of Top12 as scum, who would you say is the partner? I'm leaning Devourer and Rainbow apparently goes for User - what's your bet?

@Mod - User Name is now officially in your prod range of 48 hours. I'd also like to request a prod on Top12Gun as he has gone past the 30 which allows me to request said proddage to his buttocks.

[Thor665]

Why would he consider you a threat and not me though?

Am I losing my touch?

[Thor665]

@Top12Gun - So me asking for a quicklynch was scummy. Rainbow doing a quicklynch was not scummy. You seem to be standing by that call - clarify?

[Thor665]

Vote: Toroid

Yeah, I'm sold. Top12 is dancing like a boss right now.

[Thor665]

@Toroid - vote me pl0x.

[Thor665]

But, yeah, It's either Devourer - or you have scum balls the size of casaba melons, or Rainbow is really lolsilly scum.

What changed?

I don't know, what did change?

Devourer is

cum
Paired with Top12Gun/Name User

Discuss.

I'm leaning towards 'I decided Top12 is more likely scum than User' but I may have confused myself.
What do you think changed?

[Thor665]

You do understand I'm not allowed to vote Devourer or Top12 today, right?

[Thor665]

It's impossible to have no lynch - there's a deadline enforced lynch.

[Thor665]

Thor: Why did you choose to focus on nobody but a VI on day 1? That doesn’t seem very pro-town to me.

Which one of the VIs I discussed do you think I solely focused on? I disagree this even happened. Even in your catchup you seem aware I discussed multiple of them (even though you rather missed my point a lot)

Here's a question for you, how is 'driving' a sudden speed lynch that came out of nowhere a scumtell on me?

[Thor665]

Your quotes are *hyper confusing*

I would say I react to VIs in a number of ways. But by the time I start calling them VIs what I want them to understand is I think their scumtells are laughable and that they should sheep me. To a certain extent I'm trying to make them at least ask themselves 'why is this guy saying our play is so bad and no one else is disagreeing...is it bad?'

I have been called a VI defender (I think that's part of the logic behind 'Papa Smurf'

Other than that...::shrug:: I dunno, I think i treat them with more care then a lot of people who've played as long as I have, but they still bug me and make it hard to get a clear read through all the newb juice.

[Thor665]

That might be due to the fact that I misattributed the second quote to you instead of Top. It really shouldn't be too hard to ctrl+f though, considering that my post is a short one.

The last quote too.

Why not leave in the link if you're going to mess it up when you hand type it?

[Thor665]

Because it's hasty, it doesn't use or give town any information, and because I don't see how you can arrive at the conclusion that someone is scum from something like 2 pages with such certainty that you are willing to lynch the guy.

Serious question: Do you think I predicted the speed lynch?

I find it interesting that you've been dismissing T12's case on several occasions. Something to keep in mind for later.

His case was that I was scum...I'm pretty sure that, by definition, I disagree with that case. Big shock.

The focus on speedlynch request is VI, nothing more. Scum would not be trying to push a lynch that obviously just isn't going to happen with all of the thor town reads flying around.

Question - why VI town and not VI scum?
I agree it's newbish, no question at all, and I agree the case is bad, again, no question at all. But why is it bad so that it's town? Scum can be foolish newbs too last I checked, yeah?

You drove the TAOS wagon knowing full well that he was a VI. And not once did you seriously push for a different lynch candidate on Day 1.

Why is this?

Well;

1. I'll presume you mean this ignores my T12 push.

2. With 2 pushes, I actually think that makes me the player with the *most* pushes Day 1, as everyone else had only pushed one wagon. It was...uh...kind of a quick day, not a lot of time to press multiple wagons in my opinion.

[Thor665]

1. No, but the point is, if I was really leading the Ace wagon like you suggest, I would have needed to predict the speedlynch - otherwise the lack of me doing other stuff with it is meaningless. There was no time to do other stuff with it, he was speedlynched.

2. So it is kind of a push you noticed then

3. If he was here enough to have reacted reasonably, I might agree with that as a tell.

4. Refer to #2, also focus on other people...again, please name every player who reacted to as many people (or more people) than I did. If you can I will withdraw all issues with this line of questioning. Otherwise I will make snide remarks about it. I can be pretty snide.

[Thor665]

1. I think this is flawed. You pushed for an Ace lynch. Whether or not that was a speed lynch was outside of your control. It was chance that Rainbowdash hammered and that you called for a speedlynch in your first post.

Yeah...but your initial point was that I had come up with that read too fast and then pushed for his lynch.
He was speed lynched.
You have no ability to know if I was pushing him as part of an RVS sound out stage or if I really wanted to get him lynched super early on an RVS case.
You also find it suspect I hadn't expanded on his situation.

You'll note that all your problems are easily countered by "I was going to do all that - I didn't have time because there was a speed lynch"
At that point, the only way me doing that is scummy is if I knew there would be a speed lynch so I could take that defense.
So...?

2. We're misunderstanding each other here. I'm saying that you pushed for Topgun to be cleared, since you've said that the case was silly on multiple occasions. The point still stands that you didn't push for a lynch on anyone aside from taos.

And also T12. My push on him was basically just as intense as my push on Aces.

4. Reacting to a player =/= pushing for a lynch. That's inconsequential though. I'm not worried about you only focusing on one player, so much as I am that that player was a VI. If what you said about your play regarding VIs was correct, I see no reason why you should've pushed so hard on taos.

Did I really push that hard on him?
By my count I had basically 4 posts about him - interspaced where *many* posts trying to get reads and offering opinions on others.
So - where/how do you get this read?

Are you exempting Rainbowdash from suspicion because "lol sheep me BE TOWN"

Have I? Explain how you get to that conclusion.
Functionally I'm sheeping Rainbow Dash, not the other way around.

[Thor665]

I have openly stated that within the past 24 hours I do believe, so...yes.

[Thor665]

This is going to come back around to answering my questions to you eventually, right?

[Thor665]

EBWOP - I was annoyed at some of the reads there and was doing my own modified timeline. Eh, enjoy it anyway. Comes from a less annoyed place about you now though. And, oddly, we still read some stuff differently.


This is how I read my iso

1 is RVS
2-4 is at topgun
5-6 is scumhunting TAOS
7 is Top12
8-10 is scumhunting TAOs
11 is voting TAOS
15-16 is building a taos wagon
17-18: back on top12
19-20 and 22: Building the taos wagon
23: Scumhunting TAOS and Top12
27: taos
28-29: replying to User
30: brief summary wherein I list reasons I have issue with three different players silly play and admit that at least one and likely two are not scum - and mention Ace specifically as one of them.

All of this is over the course of five days with a deadline of 2 weeks.
So, in 1/3 of the Day length Thor interacted and scumhunted with every player who posted, and offered significant opinions on half of the player list. How VERY underwhelming!

[Thor665]

Can you explain to me the strategy of early wagons?

[Thor665]

Turkey?

[Thor665]

For both if needed, but I'm asking about town specifically.
Scum only does them to look town.

[Thor665]

Early wagons are built by town on a scummy case, but that wagon should not turn into a quick lynch, which I do not believe is ever beneficial to town.

So we agree that me pushing a wagon aggressively at game start, and pushing hard, is not intrinsically a scummy act.
So what's your beef with it?

Also, why is Rainbow the scummiest? For the quicklynch?
I dunno, are you claiming it's a double bluff - Rainbow did something drastically derpy on the presumption we would call her town because only dumb scum would do that? I tend to believe that no scum would have the casabas to do that move - and then to also toss herself into the lynch pool? Meh. I guess I could see it as a bluff, and then a toss into lynch pool over a bluff, and then hard buddying me...but her scumhunt on T12 looks highly legit and the conclusions make sense to me.

What am I missing?

Thor seems to be a rather perceptive player, regardless of whether he's scum like I think, so it piqued my suspicion both before and after the Ace town-flip that he didn't in the least state the possibility that Ace could be fail town, since he seems like the kind of person who would. Not an accusation or anything, but it made me wonder...

I specifically called this out, so...whut?

[Thor665]

My beef is with the fact that the wagon was being pushed on a VI, who you said you tend to give the benefit of the doubt.

Did I say I didn't push wagons on them? There's a difference between being forgiving towards VI behavior and deciding to push a VI wagon at the start of Day 1. If I was claiming to never push VI behavior...then I'd be at a massive disadvantage in a lot of games, scum and town. If you disagree then I suppose I'll cede the point, but I think you're being oddly pedantic about this.

Rainbow being in the lynch pool and then NOBODY pressuring her tells me that Rainbow put herself in the lynchpool to be self-cleared

.

It's worth a push. I'm not sure scum Rainbow would bother putting me into the pool and then pushing me as town that hard. Sorta defeats the purpose, yeah?

Have you considered a rainbowdash/T12 scum connection? Just a thought.

Doesn't make a lot of sense considering how hard Rainbow is pushing T12 scum today - wouldn't that be kind of awkward to back away from tomorrow? Especially with me there and alive, which is clearly Rainbow's hope.

[Thor665]

I'd even go so far as to say a Rainbow or T12 scum flip would auto clear the other.

[Thor665]

Could you point that out, I'm not seeing it?

[Thor665]

How do you see T12's current vote move as newb town and not newb scum?

[Thor665]

Allow me to spell out the T12 scum line as I grok it.
Sell me that I'm wrong and I'll hammer Rainbow for you for lulz;

1. T12 starts the day voting me with no attention paid to the rest of the game.
2. Rainbow calls out T12 and votes Toroid
3. With no real gain to either the Thor or Toroid wagons T12 reaffirms that he dislikes Thor - oh how awful Thor is. Has no comments about Rainbow.
4. You show up and dig into Rainbow, and attack her - Toroid wagon goes nowhere, Thor wagon is totally dead.
5. T12 (who I think is still calling me scum, I'm not sure) shows up and votes Rainbow for no clear reason.

Okay, so, basically scum T12 never really had a need or a point where the Toroid shift would make sense. He also hopped off me with barely a murmer (his super top suspect) and is suddenly all about Rainbow being dead. WOuldn't *that* be the scum T12 hop, and that would make Rainbow town and Toroid more likely scum?

As a theoretical - Toroid is scum who was put in as an easy "clear" (because, as T12 says, he would have put a buddy in) T12 never discusses Toroid, and doesn't even mention Rainbow's Toroid push as a reason to get Rainbow dead. Goal was to have Toroid just be there relatively quiet while either T12 tunneld Thor into lynch or town lynched Rainbow for 'lulz, speedhammah!'

Thoughts?

[Thor665]

I honestly can't even make sense of your case post against me.

[Thor665]

And just to play random possibilities advocate, what if we're both town, as unlikely as that is??

Then my reads would be wrong.

1. Wrong. I simply thought you were still scummy, for many of the same reasons.

2. Rainbow's argument makes little sense when examined from the angle of, "If Rainbow is town, she understands why I found her hammer less scummy, because she

didn't

do it for scummy reasons and would thus expect me to view it through that lens. Instead, she isn't comprehending why I don't see it as very condemning, and thus must not have any town reasons for voting Ace (or she would see why I thought it town.) Hence, Rainbow is scum." Try that.

3. I don't dislike Thor, I simply think he's scum (though that opinion is also weakening, with the introduction of the fact that Toroid & Rainbow are also seeming scummy as hell to me. ) And I had no comments about Rainbow because I was sure that if she was town, she would think it through from the above paradigm at least once. The fact that she hasn't by now is a red flag the size of frickin Africa. This is why I'm on her so hard now.

4. Thor wagon is dead because other than Toroid, who I haven't quite got figured yet and made a post I can't understand really.

1. Why so narrow of view on day start? Also, why no assessment of the new info to your old conclusions?
2. That has nothing to do with my point. The point is the lay of the land your vote reactions came in.
3. Again, that has nothing to do with my point. The point is the pushes you chose to advance.
4. I know the Thor wagon is dead and I know why it died - the point is your reactions to its death.

[Thor665]

Where 2 days till lynch deadline and I've got a scumread on each wagon and am learning to vaguely hate you all.

Unvote: Toroid

Put one of them to L-1 and I'll hammer.

[Thor665]

So...till after deadline.

Oh gawds, you people.

Vote: Toroid

Because he isn't the lynch T12 or Orc want.

[Thor665]

Anyone?
Bueller?

[Thor665]

Explain your last sentence.

T12 is the most likely scum to my mind - whatever lynch he wants I do not.
You are the player who decided to walk away from the selection process - whichever lynch you want I do not.

[Thor665]

@Mod - do you use plurality ties or do you use lynches based off of most votes achieved first?

[Thor665]

Rainbow/Orc doesn't make much sense to me as a pair.
Top12/Rainbow does.
Top12/Devourer does.
Top12/Orc does.
Orc/Devourer does.
Rainbow/Devourer does.

I need to go and figure out which others can be ruled out.
I'm leaning Top/Rainbow as most likely with Top/Devour as 2nd most likely. I think Orc played too contentedly with all the lynches to really make sense as scum, I think he would have called one town in some meaningful way in the hopes of getting towncred since, for him to be scum, he has to be part of a team that didn't put up a scum option in the lynchings, and why not try to pick one of them as 'obv. town' for buddy points/town cred later?

[Thor665]

Top12/Devourer does.
Rainbow/Devourer does.

Let's even look at that.
And, actually - Top12/Rainbow doesn't make sense, so axe that one.

I want to lynch Devourer- discuss.

[Thor665]

@Mod - V/LA with an emphasis on the LA part. 12-17 I'll probably still post everyday, but my activity will decrease.

[Thor665]

You do understand what lylo is - right?

If you're town, unvote me.

[Thor665]

More than likely.

[Thor665]

Why does this not surprise me.

[Thor665]

Posting.

Chk hopping on me after Orc unvoted for info already readily available to him strikes me as a scum who had previously been hoping for a buddy to show up.
Lack of Top 12 is making a lot of this reactioning less valuable, because there's a solid chance he's scum, and if so some of the lingering votes are less "real" as scum lack the ability to work a quickhammer.

Why is no one discussing my pairings? I actually put some decent effort into those.
Hate you all...

I could still see Rainbow/Chk as the pair though, I'll admit, it's like they're having a slap fest for our enjoyment and will be able to "prove" there was scum on them for the later obv. town, lulz, win

@Orc - Okay, you I'm interested in talking to. What pairings do you see that make sense, also, what do you think of my pairing discussion from last page?

[Thor665]

231+232 were made close enough together that the scumteam would have hammered you, I think.

A not unreasonable point - though Chk never 'checked in' again, as it ere. He did post again that day at 11pm in a different game, but by that point you'd already unvoted me. I don't think this is as valid as you think it is though. Functionally they only had about a two hour window to manage it in. A more convincing point would be to note that Rainbow was calling for a unvote as opposed to making some less specific commentary. That at least suggests a lack of coordination attempt in that post which tends to rule out the partnership a bit more - I think I'm being maybe overly swayed by the semi-hypocrisy attack from Rainbow paired with chk's 'well, yeah, that's scummy but you're doing it too' "defense".

[Thor665]

@Chk - why are you so convinced Rainbow is scum to the point you have zero fear she's voting you (since, clearly you fear no quickhammer attempt), while still you are voting me?

Also, your attack on me sprang up after I cited you as my top scumread today - yet the attack on me is based off Rainbow's play.
Discuss.

[Thor665]

My attack on you is over the fact that you're not playing your typical Thor665 mega-town play.

The only combination of the remaining four that doesn't work is chk/Rainbow simply because I can state with utmost certainty that I was online cruising through my other game, Facebook, Twitter, et cetera ad nauseam at the time you had a vote on you and the two of us would've quicklynched you if she were online as well. All I can give you on that is my word, however, so take that however you'd like.

Thor: Do you find Rainbow's adamant town read on you suspicious at all?

It makes sense coming from a basis of T12 = scum. I will agree some of it felt over the top (the 'Thor is off the table' thing yesterday, specifically.
Frankly though, amidst a sea of newb players trying to call me scum for things that were provably not even applicable as scumtells (in general, much less specifically for me) she frankly felt like the only other sane town voice in the entire game.

Also, if you have issues with Rainbow bringing up how no scum were in the lynch pool - do you have issues with T12 saying both scum would be in the lynch pool?
A theory now also being shopped by Chk.

I did say that I thought it was an all town lineup yesterday - but look at that lineup.
Derp.

Do you see anyone as likely a Rainbow partner besides Chk?
Because I see Chk as the obvious lynchpin between Rainbow/T12 and feel that's the smarter play.

[Thor665]

So are you saying you see T12 as town?
Or are you thing Rainbow+Thor/T12/Chk as the team pairings?

[Thor665]

Why can Rainbow/Chk exist and not Thor/Chk?

[Thor665]

I'm just trying to figure out why she's the obvious lynchpin - if you aren't ruling out other pairings then the base decision that she needs to go first is flawed, yeah?

[Thor665]

To repharse - I feel like what you're really saying is you think two scum are within: Thor/Chk/Rainbow/T12.

While that is a fine stance, it doesn't help edge-u-mi-kate me about why Rainbow is the needed lynch. Can you expand?

[Thor665]

*rephrase, even.

[Thor665]

Top12/Devourer does.
Rainbow/Devourer does.
And, actually - Top12/Rainbow doesn't make sense, so axe that one.

Chopping this up and melding two posts - but let's consider these pairings. Clearly you agree with me that you don't belong in any scum pairings, so I'll axe those.
Do you agree with my conclusion that Top12/Rainbow doesn't make sense?

To spell it out - look at her play regarding him Day 2. She's hard setting him up, basically she's buddying me, who clearly wants T12 dead, and is *also* claiming T12 as obv. scum. That makes little sense as a scum gambit because I'll likely come into today screaming for the blood of T12 to coat the floors.
Therefore that's a pairing that doesn't make sense.

You agree?

[Thor665]

1. Eh, I've never bought quickhammering as scumtell, but at least see the point. However, if you think this it begs the question why no one commented on her. I think you have an overblown opinion of its relative scumminess.

2. Does this mean everyone who got pressure is town and I'm confirmed? I understand he base logic, but what if scum put up all town and just chose to attack one over another?

3. That's a solid scum plan and I can agree with the reasoning there, and it would work with a Thor lynch also.

Good.

Almost assuredly, as I recall a couple of the newbs were even mewling that being put on it Day 2 would 'prove' they were town, so I'd have done it in a heartbeat.

Okay, so now we have some reason to think Rainbow is scummy (easy) and reason to rule out at least one partnership (easy) but why do you rule out all other partnerships save those that involve her? Is it just that you're convinced scum would put one of themselves on the block without question? I can see that, except that you suspect me - what if I'm the scum and Rainbow is just innocently derpy? Either you need to be hard clearing me somehow, or this push makes little sense...thoughts?

[Thor665]

What was Rainbow doing on the Day 2 block?

Being a mislynch or being wifom scum - that's what everyone was doing on it.

[Thor665]

Why does my bussing meta affect Thor/Top and not Thor/Rainbow?

[Thor665]

@Thor: I don't take that much stock into meta. I find your interaction with Rainbow suspicious because you don't find Rainbow's defense of you suspicious and I find it suspicious and this is a bad sentence because I'm off on a plane soon but yeah.

1. I don't care if you do or don't put stock in meta - all I want to know is why you're applying it to one pairing and not the other. Because you are doing that.

2. I have explained that the case on me was so bad I was amazed it existed - that makes defense of me seem shockingly normal. I already said all of this, what part is so strange to you?

@Both Thor and Rainbowdash:

If I'm town, and you're town, chk has to be scum. Who out of orc, each other, and myself is his most likely partner?

Well "if you're town" then you can't be his most likely partner and I would answer Rainbow.
If we're not accepting you as town then I would say you or Rainbow.
Those are actually my two main pairings, I rather want to lynch Chk but nobody else is talking that way...which makes me want to do it more.

[Thor665]

I feel much the same way you feel about the Chk lynch, but applied to Rainbow.

Chk is and has been.
Don't derp.

I now feel very good about this game. Chk/Rainbow is, I can say with 90% certainty, the scumteam. Everything makes sense. Come on guys let's get this done with.

How do you rule out Klick/Chk?

[Thor665]

Also not hammering.

Not that this means much at this stage.

@Chk - why did you flip from me to Rainbow now instead of earlier?

[Thor665]

I've already stated what that means in a previous post.

Quote?
Specifically of the pairings she is part of that I am not possible for?

[Thor665]

There are actually a number of scumteams that are still viable outside of Chk/you.

They still involve Chk though - that's been my point.
Look at the way he reversed on the Thor/Rainbow situation. He's not even playing it simple and just saying 'I think they're both scum, so it doesn't matter who goes first'.
Instead he's dancing with this pairing nonsense and acting like somehow I've been ruled out of viable teams (like...which?) or that Rainbow has become more viable to those same teams (like...which?)

It makes no internal logical sense.

Vote: Chkflip

We should do this.
But I'll make you a deal, if T12 shows up and doesn't hammer for a scum win then I'll hammer Rainbow.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Chkflip

[Thor665]

Wait, Klick = T12.
Excuse me, I'm being a moron here.

[Thor665]

Okay, so either it's Chk/Rainbow, which I do believe is possible.
Or Chk/Orc which is rather unlikely.

Orc suddenly makes more sense to me now in what he's asking.

Okay, let's dance.

Vote: Rainbowdash

Also - it's Thor/Chk - trolololol

[Thor665]

If Thor had voted you instead of hammering Rainbow early, that would have been autowin. Him hammering early was the only situation in which this wasn't autowin.

So you're saying Chk is confirmed scum?
Because that's the only way that one makes sense.

[Thor665]

Pay attention. I didn't think Thor/Klick worked and, clearly, it didn't. It could still be either of you IMO.

Yeah, but you were still voting me at that point in time - so...what changed?
It felt really fake.

[Thor665]

Why do you think Orc is as confirmed town as can be?

[Thor665]

Yeah, Day 2 speaks well for Orc pretty much regardless.

So let's do this.

Vote: Klick

[Thor665]

So you're saying that Chk is confirmed scum?
Because that's the only way that one makes sense.

[Thor665]

So we agree it's a meaningless call then?

[Thor665]

No. It confirms orc as town. Cuz, y'know, he didn't hammer chk with Rainbow.

Because everyone is arguing so much about Orc being scum?
You can self vote now.

[Thor665]

Why did no one object to this logic when I posted it in my second post of the game?

I am objecting to your logic about how I am scum because I didn't vote Chk to allow you to confirm yourself.
Chk is arguing that you are in no way confirmed town.
I don't know why you're trying to suggest that anyone is arguing with you about Orc's alignment when both of us have said we see him as town.

[Thor665]

So you're voting me because Orc is town.
Fair enough.

I'm voting you because you attempted to grab onto Rainbow lynch townpoints which you obviously didn't deserve.

[Thor665]

I was probably going to hammer Rainbow anyway.

[Thor665]

Frankly - the whole reaction from you looked fake.

[Thor665]

Lacking the grab for towncred I would have felt better about the whole thing.

[Thor665]

I realize that lynching correctly today is an autowin (which means if it's you/chk, it's autowin already). That basically means I'm making a choice between Orc and Thor, but lynching between you and chk. Therefore, if you're town, I need a good reason to suspect Orc, because using my own scumhunting, I currently suspect a you/Thor scumteam.

Uh huh.

[Thor665]

@Chk - my case is we're lynching Klick and if we don't win the game then we'll lynch you.

[Thor665]

If I were scum, why wouldn't I make myself a wagon?

Um...so you could say that?
I wasn't aware being a lynch option or not meant much of anything at this stage.

Clearly the gates are against me so if I didn't win today I wouldn't win at all, right?

Yes, if you do not win today then you will not win.

[Thor665]

I don't self vote as town.
But a promised Chk lynch does not make me sad.

[Thor665]

Though actually I think I look more obv. town than Klick due to RD interactions, frankly.

[Thor665]

You are so obv. scum it hurts.

[Thor665]

Ugh, that became a miserable slog after Orc's replace in.
I think town owes him a lot of thanks for the win.

[Thor665]

And I'm fine revealing the MafiaQT if Rainbow wishes to.

[Thor665]

Eh, I saw no way your lynch wasn't happening at that stage, so it seemed worth the gamble.
Like I said in the the QT - the issue was that you had scum energy on you that we weren't able to shake, and the buddying play tied us so closely that it made things into pseudo-lylo for us yesterday.

Do you think we could have gotten Chk lynched yesterday? Chk wouldn't have moved, neither would Orc - that meant it was based on Klick who, despite what I was trying to sell today, had you pretty heavily in his sights.
I think the Chk lynch yesterday was about as dicey as the Klick lynch today - I was hoping my obv. scumhunting with your flip would paint me town enough to lynch likely town Klick over slightly more likely town Thor and then just angle for the Chk lynch in lylo - seemed to have better odds to my mind.

[Thor665]

If it makes you feel better I'll admit after the hammer I wished I could take it back - but I think the outcome of Day 3 was pretty much writ in stone after the play of Day 2.

[Thor665]

In retrospect - maybe we should have bussed Day 2.
Of course to do that we'd have needed to predict Orc's arrival.
:shrug:

[Thor665]

THANK ORC!? SMURF I HAD YOU TWO PEGGED ON MY FIRST FIVE POSTS.

Then why did it take Orc to lynch us?
Correctly identifying scum is only part of the game.

[Thor665]

I think it would of, we went for a risky play between my desire to double Day 2 us and RD's desire to hyper buddy - and it looked to be well on the way to working. Orc stopped it - in my opinion basically by himself.

[Thor665]

Also: replacement town beat mighty THOR

Replacement town is often the most dangerous town.

[Thor665]

What was funny about it?
It made me cry a little. (in a manly way, natch)

[Thor665]

It does remind me why I often kill replacing slots though - scum never like the boat rocked when they're doing well.