NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[Konowa]

Vote: ArcAngel9

As a side note, don't expect much, if any, out of until Sunday night due to work and a funeral I have to attend tomorrow.

[Konowa]

Happy Birthday, Empire! Here, have a present:

Vote: Empire

P-Edit: Angel, most games on this site start out with RVS (Random Voting Stage).

Nothing to fear.

Ugh.

[Konowa]

ArcAngel's reactions now won't be as genuine if pressure built as NS told her there was nothing to fear.

[Konowa]

Back from long, draining weekend. I'll get thoughts out today.

[Konowa]

Okay, first of all.

unvote;
Vote: Nobody Special

Explain how using the reactions of not only ArcAngel, but of other people regarding ArcAngel, to determine alignment make me scum. The fact that you come in -on page one- and tell ArcAngel, who appears new to the site, to not worry about a page one three vote wagon on her is incredibly scummy to me. You’ve played plenty of games by now I’m sure that reactions to said wagons help catch scum in awkward situations early on. I’m sure you remember your own awkward response in Rarefaction? As town, you should know this. By telling ArcAngel to not worry, it appears if you are trying to limit damage preemptively.

B. Primarily let's look at the empire wagon. It consists of him, SAD who actually really pushes it, me, Tammy's rvs vote, and Magna who's also said other things and asked some questions.

Of those 5 I find him worst and since I think emp is town I'm expecting at least one of the votes to be from scum.

This is awful reasoning.

Mehdi’s response to the whole NS situation trying to explain it away as NS thinking not nice equal scum and NS’ lack of response to it comes across as very much scum/scum interaction.

I want to snipe the thread and call a ArcAngel/NS/Mehdi scum team given the interactions, but that seems too neat.

[Konowa]

Forgot about the short deadlines in this game. Stating intent to put him at L-1.

[Konowa]

Nope. But while we are here, can you explain your change in thought on Empire?

[Konowa]

I disagreed with your vote and reasoning on Empire and wanted that explained first. It's the same thing really what you are trying to push now. LOLtown Empire. Besides, if you want to sheep onto a wagon which I think will land scum, have at it.

[Konowa]

So you don't question my alignment for it?

So ftr, you're cool with a wagon on a scumread of your consisting of

all vote hopping, bandwagon votes, and no reasoning, right?

Pedit: At konowa.

I think you're overselling this. Unless you're classifying just your vote as such. As for questioning your alignment, I was doing that by questioning your switch on Empire from "serious vote" to "LOLEmpire town".

[Konowa]

That's obviously a false dilemma, Dayne. Please get back when you finish reading. You're starting to ping.

[Konowa]

What was the question you asked everyone?

[Konowa]

Forgot about the short deadlines in this game. Stating intent to put him at L-1.

Why haven't you done this already.

No reason.

unvote;
Vote: Mehdi

[Konowa]

In case context doesn't imply, L-1.

[Konowa]

This day is boring already. Happy with a Mehdi lynch. Already said why I think NS is scum with him. AA is prob town, agree with the Vig shot here regardless, because of Mehdi's over the top discussion about the Vig shot.

This is me posting without really reading.

[Konowa]

When Mehdi flips scum, Vi needs scrutiny too.

[Konowa]

That makes no sense.

[Konowa]

And yes, I'm ignoring Dayne after that awful false dilemma crap earlier.

[Konowa]

Dead null. But that's just off the top of my head.

I still don't understand 434 and 438. But to be honest [ongoing], I can't read you.

[Konowa]

DV, have you ever read or played with Vi scum?

[Konowa]

Okay. I think I see where you're coming from then. Maybe. You're probably town for it too.

Vi as scum will bus with no remorse. I think his play in regards to the Mehdi wagon fits that.

[Konowa]

I think the fact that he is just there is more of a tell.

Anyways, pillow.

[Konowa]

Back from V/LA. Will get thoughts out today.

[Konowa]

I can get behind MoI.

Vote: MagnaOfIllusion

rofl, why is DV scum? I'm not seeing it.

[Konowa]

Forcing myself to get into this game. Have a bunch of solid town reads and want to clear up some of the murkiness.

Johog, why is MoI town (549)?
Kingmaker, how has Mehdi’s flip affected your read of Johhog (307)? What alignment relevant information were you hoping to receive from answers to 561?
Baby Spice, read on MoI?

[Konowa]

I can get behind MoI.

Vote: MagnaOfIllusion

rofl, why is DV scum? I'm not seeing it.

I take this question back. I think I was being slightly blinded by some confirmation bias as I would have expected scum DV to pick up 433 and run with it Today. The fact that he didn't made me slight town read him. However, after 605 and 606 I take that back.

Johhog, how does gut fit into MoI largely ignoring the Mehdi wagon, other than to criticize Dayne for trying to debase it after his [Dayne] L-2 vote on Mehdi? He spent some time discussing -your- reactions to Mehdi, but never bridged over to Mehdi himself. Most of D1 was spent with discussion revolving around Mehdi and MoI didn't have anything to say about Mehdi's alignment other than it would be pro-town to use the quote function. I don't think I've ever played with MoI as scum, but town MoI I've played with has always had his fingers in the pudding.

[Konowa]

DV, I am confused. If you think rofl was lining up lynches (612), then why wouldn’t you immediately call him out on it instead of waiting for him to say as such and then react to it?

624 doesn’t feel genuine given discussion. Feels as if DV is just looking to tack something onto his weak push on SnowStorm (“he [SnowStorm] doesn’t discuss MoI despite MoI being the main wagon”].

Hi, DGB!
Baby Spice, why are you avoiding giving a read on MoI?

[Konowa]

From my perspective, it's how you're trying to qualify MoI as the "main" wagon on a Day that has severely lacked in involvement due to holidays.

[Konowa]

That was a bunch of crap from DGB.

[Konowa]

More qualifications.

[Konowa]

I'll lynch the Kingmaker/DGB slot today if not MoI.

[Konowa]

Tammy telling you to stop stalling isn't rude. And if you really believe that you need to re-evaluate whether or not you want to continue playing.

[Konowa]

Zach and Nacho are my preferred lynches for the Day.

[Konowa]

I'll get to this in a few hours. Haven't read anything yet.

[Konowa]

Vote: Zachrulez

Reasons for MoI slot being scum still valid and then there is 713, which is a doozy of a scum post.

Johog, I think you're placing too much of your case of me being "invisible" as scum when it's more of a byproduct of my gameplay and me getting burnt out.

[Konowa]

Johog, like I said I think me being quiet is a combination of style and me getting burnt out. I can see why one would view that as scummy though. As far as my interactions with Baby, I do not know how you are interpreting them as distancing. I preferred MoI lynch based on D1 interactions, or lackthereof, with Mehdi wagon. I think that Tammy brought up the point that despite Baby's one game with MoI, link in this thread somewhere, it should not give her an excuse for not giving a read on MoI. She was not responding to Tammy, so I hoped that added pressure for her to give a read on MoI would yield some results. I think 713 is more likely to be distancing if you are looking for relational tells like that.

[Konowa]

SnowStorm can be scum for 722.

[Konowa]

Zach, SnowStorm, or NS (hop from BabySpice to Nacho at end of D2).

[Konowa]

Last post.

563 from NS to Baby is weak question that doesn't have any alignment revealing intent behind it and seems more like a flyby, "here's a question for you to answer", type question. Baby's 569 is also where Tammy picks up on Baby not giving a read on MoI and so on.

[Konowa]

I think he means 422 and 423.

[Konowa]

422 and 423 and the reasoning you're giving is crap by the way. AA clearly was not a strong player, keeping her around would have benefited scum more than town (potential swing onto a town wagon/potential easy mislynch/scum not killing her for possible lylo). If you're going to policy shot, N1 is when to do it. I already explained to you earlier about 423, but you seemed to have forgotten that.

It seems that you are using these two posts as the crux of your arguement as to why I am scum and then adding the "lack of interaction" as an afterthought.

[Konowa]

Also, DV why are you just now bringing up that point (now that some pressure is building) when in 433 you said it was scummy and after Mehdi town flip you ignore it?

[Konowa]

Regarding 422, that's exactly what I mean. If someone is prob town, wanting a policy shot doesn't make sense at all over someone you can't read or think is scum.

And when I'm scum, I have 'town' explanations for everything I say and do, so you explaining something is not going to make it less scummy.

I went through your ISO as I made the post and said things in the order that I saw/thought them.

And I had a weak townread on you yesterday, but I forget why.

It does if the player in question is someone who is going to cause more trouble for town alive than dead. Don't tell me that you've never seen town call for a policy Vig shot before? I maybe misremembering, but didn't Empire call AA town and agreed with a Vig shot?

Then why aren't you saying -why- I would say that as scum. The only reason I see is if I was scum with Vi and wanted to clear him by linking him to Mehdi"scum" who I knew wouldn't flip scum thus giving me a pass on Vi.

[Konowa]

Prod received, post tomorrow?

[Konowa]

Vote: DeasVail

[Konowa]

I encourage people to read DV in regards to Baby and Zach, I actually think it's pretty clear.

[Konowa]

I really don't get that last question by DV. His posting has become "let me try to appeal to the most vocal Town". This is of course posts after saying that the Johhog kill made him less sure of Empire/Tammy but yet has done nothing to try and determine alignment.

PEdit: I'm game.

[Konowa]

Popcorn.

[Konowa]

VT

SnowStorm

[Konowa]

Yeah, give me a minute.

[Konowa]

Or an hour, food and such.

[Konowa]

This is going to be super brief as I hate walls. Reason for DV being scum is all associative.

Transition from 717 to 723 comes across very forced.

728 shows a preference for a Nacho lynch over a Zach lynch, with a preference for a Baby lynch but doesn’t really do anything for any of those wagons. Just the way this Day played out, this is coming across as a weak bus. Most of the Day was spent discussing Zach and Nacho, which DV never got involved with, and DV never really tried to really push any of his scumreads (SnowStorm/Baby).

788 in regards to Baby Spice (“DV names her as one of his scumreads, but never mentions her again”). This is more likely to come from scum/scum interaction so DV can later go “look, I’m sure I said she was scummy somewhere”.

Coming into the last Day, I was assuming 3 scum/SK setup. Given that assumption, I don’t think that scum would want their buddy lynched (especially with a potential SK out there who could endgame Mafia at Night). In steps 832 and the justification for MoI/Zach town.

Short post short.

[Konowa]

DV has to be scum. The flip from 1004 to 1008 and 1009....wut?

[Konowa]

Please explain that, DV.

[Konowa]

I feel like I'm taunting you at this point, but if you really thought I was scum as Town wouldn't you try?

[Konowa]

Why do you guys post so much while I'm sleeping? I'll post after work.

[Konowa]

I think what SnowStorm is saying is that if you do somehow flip Town, you words postmortem would carry more weight. Presenting why you think I'm more likely to be scum than NS would help Town in the next Day phase.

But you're scum, so it's okay.

[Konowa]

As far as NS goes, limited scope (I haven't read any Town games), in Mafia in Triplicate he wasn't nearly this snarky.

[Konowa]

Why?

[Konowa]

Why is that post from scum? Explain the scum motivation.

[Konowa]

I really don't expect a response since you didn't respond to the last one.

[Konowa]

That's crap, and as Town you would know it. Your words as Town flipped would absolutely carry weight.

Second, you're holding onto the crap "if Mehdi flips scum, Vi is scum" post. You seemed to ignore the only scum motivational reasoning as to why I as scum would do that. You're playing like LaLaLand. Your thoughts haven't evolved or taken any new ideas. You're sticking to one point and hoping it flies.

[Konowa]

You're still not distinguishing why I'm more likely to be scum than NS.

[Konowa]

Please show these posts.

[Konowa]

None of 1126. Sorry, and I've have a few.

[Konowa]

I'm done with this Day. DV isn't going to respond to the actual motivation points I made. I see no reason to post anymore. If it gets to that point I'll dodge. Don't expect more.

[Konowa]

STOP NINJA!

[Konowa]

...?

[Konowa]

Not in my role PM.

What?

[Konowa]

Okay.

Shot of vodka, smoke, them I'll be back. Hopefully Zar will explain?

[Konowa]

Obviously drunk posting?

[Konowa]

At least I know how to read DV scum now. LaLaLand fucked my head whole I was alive.

[Konowa]

I'll say again, like in Space Mafia, when in doubt sheep rofl.

[Konowa]

I need to stop drinking.

[Konowa]

See you all in Wire?

Zar, live the flavor. Great modding and accommodation during holiday season. Appreciate it.

[Konowa]

If DGB reads, can say why you replaced out? Genuinely curious.