NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

[Baby Spice]

Happy birthday Empire.

Welcome to the madness AA.

Vote. Nobody Special

.

[Baby Spice]

Happy Birthday, Empire! Here, have a present:

Vote: Empire

P-Edit: Angel, most games on this site start out with RVS (Random Voting Stage).

Nothing to fear.

This. Nothing to fear is a weird thing to say here. A weird way to put it.

Ps: Laptop died yesterday so I'm stuck mobile posting unless I can borrow access to something better like now.

[Baby Spice]

Also curious on it being different from having quick leans.

On what being different from quick leans? I assume you mean saying someone is leaning town or scum early on by quick leans.

[Baby Spice]

This. Nothing to fear is a weird thing to say here. A weird way to put it.

Why not comment on it before with konowa then?

Part mobile posting, part looking to se what would happen.

Also, I'm not agreeing with Konowa about it lowering pressure. Struck me more as some form of coaching.

[Baby Spice]

VOTE: Mehdi

He just gives me a bad feeling. I also don't like his Empire vote. Well, I don't really like any of the Empire votes, but this one just seemed too weird.

Weird how?

Or are you always a vague, touchy feely type of player?

[Baby Spice]

Unvote
Vote Johhog

Johhog, you seem to be extreemly focused on one point and ignoring the second point that Mehdi mentioned in that post 75.

Medhi, could you repeat or elaborate on what you didn't like about Joh's post?

[Baby Spice]

Fun fact. Johhog is still yet to address anything about Mehdi's vote on him except the timing point.

[Baby Spice]

I've had a lot of unexpected work dumped on me yesterday and today that has to be done, but should hopefully be finished it tommorow.

[Baby Spice]

Stealing time while resting my back

Mehdi2277 (6): SnowStorm, Vi, Johhog, Tammy, roflcopter, Ser Arthur Dayne

I really wanted to have a look at this wagon, so I'm stealing a little time.

Snowstorm vote and later explanation seem reasonable.

Vi's vote seems to be because Medhi takes the game far too seriously at the start, and he doesn't mention Medhi again.

Joh, terribad vote and post with it. OMGUS with attitude. Insults (a personal pet peeve of mine), and strong focus on the weakest reason of Medhi's vote. But I've addresses this more earlier.

Tammy. Actually Tammy's #123 is the reason I wanted to do this.
I find it strange that Tammy calls Johog town for an action that is scummy. I find it hard to believe that she could actually miss the point being made by Mehdi, let alone question why I would point out a scummy action used as the basis for a vote on a player that appears town. Then she takes the cake for complaining about Medhi daring to scum hunt. Then calls OMGUSing, Johogs's vote, a good reason to vote.



Oh, and Tammy:

And the fact is, it's not scummy to vote someone without reasoning,

It is scummy. It's not nice to have a reason and not give it as it leaves the way for scum to vote without a reason then make something up later, but to actually vote without reason past the RVS is scummy.

ROFL appears to vote Medhi for Medi's pressuring people that ROFL thinks are town. Beginning to disagree with the Tammy read but you can't fault ROFL's reasons.

Ser Arthur. No reason given, no reason aparent. None. Admits to voting without actually reading what has happened (#151), admits that every read is based on an assumption that Medhi is scum, but is still to give an actual reason why he thinks Medhi is scum.

and took so long writing that there's like twenty ninja posts

[Baby Spice]

A. Why is it a weak reason? I'd say it's an unusually strong reason for page two. Empire knew that NS is considered an easy target. His vote came right after an awkward NS post. He saw his chance to start a wagon. You obviously disagree, but why do you disagree?

Was that so hard?

[Baby Spice]

Why aren't you trying to convince people that Mehdi is town? (I'm assuming you think he is)

Context is a good thing you know DV.
For those not understanding why, try reading ISo's where someone continuously refers to the post above them and does not use names or quotes.

The biggest thing that Medhi has done/is doing that screams town to me is that he's engaging just about everyone. He's not trying to limit his exposure, he's putting his opinions out there with no qualifiers.
He's given his reasons. People might not agree with them but he's given them, and those reasons are not utter crap.

[Baby Spice]

First of all, you have no clue what OMGUS means. I have solid reasoning, regardless if you agree with it or not.
Secondly, why is it bad?

Explain.

Guess what, dipshit. I haven't posted since post 35. You sail up high on my suspect list from that post alone.

You're voting me because I didn't answer your question, I didn't have the opportunity to answer the question (and less than a day passed between your question and your vote).

You voted me before I had a chance to answer your question. If you had voted me in the same post as when you asked me the question, or if you had voted me after my answer, that would've been one thing. Now, you asked the question, made it look like you waited for an answer and then you voted me before I answered anyway, thereby revealing that you didn't care about my answer and just wanted to vote me.

You still fail to make any sense at all. It was one reason to vote me? It shouldn't have held any weight at all. I didn't have the time to answer it. YOU-VOTED-BEFORE-I-POSTED-AND-COULD-ANSWER. Is it that hard to understand?

You claimed that one of the reasons for voting me was that I hadn't answered your question.

No, you can't! You can say "I suspect John because he was wrong in saying that Empire is opportunistic and I think he tried to show Empire in an unnecessarily bad light". You can't say "I suspect John, partly because he didn't answer my question" when I didn't have time to answer your question.

Holy shit. It's not like I'm complaining about his vote on me (although I'd obviously prefer that he didn't vote me), it's that he's too proud to admit that part of his reasoning is faulty.

VOTE: Joh partly since I haven't gotten a response to my question (end of post 35) and of the votes on emp I like his least.

Johhog, you never asked or addressed what was it about your vote (on Empire) that Medhi liked the least. Not at the point that I first said I didn't like your vote, and not since. You belted on and on about the weakest, the stupidest part of Medhi's reasons for voting you.
It's like your admitting that you know it was the worst vote on Empire and are trying to cover that fact by screaming about something else.

If you had solid reasoning, post it, or if you did post it you obscured it in the pointless ranting so point it out.

[Baby Spice]

Why is Baby chainsawing harder then Leatherface?

Since when is defending town from poor and scummy attacks chainsawing?

[Baby Spice]

Interesting...

And why are you so confident Mehdi is town?

Because almost all that votes on him are so bad/scummy that he has to be. That because he posts so much, on and about so many people, and with his questioning style that he's making himself an easy target.

[Baby Spice]

Okay,

what if he were to flip scum?

Where would you go from there?

two second answer, Johog would still be scum and Emp would shift to a good town read for actually bothering to do good meta research. Actually, that would stay the same regardless since with a Medhi town flip Empire would have at least tried.

Longer answer, I'm going to have to think some more. Specifically about the Empire wagon. I've had a thing lately about the first wagon of D1.

[Baby Spice]

Okay so beyond this rather flaccid rundiwn of the mehdi wagon where you don't seem to actually come to any evaluations, what is p with your super duper laser focus on johhog? So, you say insults are a pet peeve, do you actually find that a scummy action or are you just pointing out what you don't like about johhog? You say his vote is terribad, but why is it?

Oh nice one, delete the evaluations and claim I didn't make any. Ok, Vi and Snowstorms' evaluations are "soft" perhaps, but there. Then insult my post. I do find casual insults scummy. Johhog's ranting ones in #87 is at least genuine.
Continuously insulting someone to try and upset them and degenerate an discussion into an insult match though, regardless is really really scummy. Especially if you've looked at my past games. Hint, it's why there's a year long gap in me playing.
Not saying that that is what you're doing but I don't remember you insulting many other people.

I've said why Johhog's vote is terribad a few times now. #109, #186, #276

I don't see how mehdi, and apparently you to, can't see the town motivation in johhogs vote and reasoning on empire. That you both seem to be willfully misinterpreting the issue and refusing to listen to the widely accepted definitions of things and are instead sticking to your thought up definitions makes no town sense to me. I see the scum sense though.

I have no understanding of what you are getting at. Have I even mentioned Johhog's vote on Empire? I was saving that for day 2 since we looked like getting a flip from someone on that Empire wagon. But.
I will mention Johhog's vote on that wagon now. It sucked. It was bad. It was predicated on Empire knowing how NS played. If NS had not made the "Nothing to fear" comment, then Empire's vote would have been bad and Johhog reasonable. But NS' comment is suspicious. It could easily have been scum coaching scum.
Yes NS is an "easy target" and normally opportunistic votes on them are bad, but as someone said sometimes the easy targets are actually scum. Not that I'm saying NS is scum. Too early to tell with him.

In essence, running up a wagon on somebody because they voted an "easy target" falls into that voting an easy target meme itself.

This puts SAD, MoI, and Medhi in a bad light too btw.

I also don't understand how you can't see my point. Mehdi voted empire for a scummy reason, or at least for a really bad and flimsy one, changed his mind and immediately started scum hunting the wagon he had just been on before really anyone had a chance to update their reads. He then picked the most townie vote on empire and calls it the scummiest. He then has not listened to why his interpretation is incorrect. I can't follow this thought process nor can I see the town motivation here.

I can't see you're point. Granted Medhi's vote on Empire wasn't great. None of them were. But why is Medhi scummy for realizing that his vote was bad and changing it? Why is Johhog's vote the "most town", because it wasn't. It was the worst. Why was Medhi's actions there different from any of his other actions in this game, or others that he is playing/has played?

I don't think his interpretation was wrong, I think yours is. But then several of your interpretations are wrong Tammy

Why is mehdi such a strong town read for you that you're working so hard for him?

And also, by the way, it is not scummy to vote without a reason. Any halfway competent person can give a reason for why they would vote before hand and ont need to make one up afterwards. It's got nothing to do with nice. This is mafia not the miss congeniality pageant, and voting without reason can garner some interesting reactions. But this is entering MD territory.

Answered in #489.

Please explain the towniness of voting without a reason. Note, not voting without giving a reason, but voting without a reason.

[Baby Spice]

Lol. That is so funny Johhog.

Vote Johhog

Not only did you have the worst, most scummy vote on an obv town wagon that flipped town, you immediatly vote the person who pointed out how scummy your vote was the next day.

[Baby Spice]

If you don't like votes without reasons, how come you never said anything about the votes on empire for no reason?

There's a difference in having a reason and not giving it, and not having a reason. How do you tell the difference, well to quote Han Solo "There's the trick"

Some players do it all the time, or do it in certain ways. Those you learn by experience I suppose. Sometimes you can work out what there reason was by looking at the game.

As a general rule, if they later give a reason and it revolves about things that happened after the vote then they probably didn't have one.

SAD cots empire without A reason but then gave a reason after mehdi asked.

Think I addressed SAD's vote already. Ok, I over simplified it a tad.

SAD voted Empire, presumably based on Emp's #34. But SAD did so in a funny way to my mind. Not that that is bad in and of itself. But Emp's vote, or rather the reasons that Emp gave in #34 seem entirely reasonable. Which makes it strange that SAD would vote without giving a reason at the time. SAD's reason, given 8 odd minutes later after being asked for it by Medhi is weak.

To me this seems to be a "Vote without a reason, get called on it right away, come up with something quickly" situation.

But moi also vote empire without a reason. What is your read on moi?

I don't. Ever since this game I've either ignored, avoided, or outright buddied MoI regardless of relative alignments. He brings out the absolute worst in me and I really don't like it. In #276 I said that insults were a personal pet peeve of mine. That game, and MoI, are why.

[Baby Spice]

Baby, what's the difference between avoiding and ignoring?

Avoiding would be not signing up for games that he is in. (Having said that I did that very thing the other day, though it's a large. The other games we were both in together he signed up for after I did iirc.)

[Baby Spice]

baby spice

- who else besides johhog do you suspect and why? Also, I asked you before but I don't think you answered, what is your read on nobody special?

Besides Johhog. NS. That nothing to fear comment still bugs the hell out of me. I can't fathom a town reason for it now that we know for certain that AA wasn't a mason/neighbour.
and SAD. Haven't liked a single vote of his, or the reasons for those votes.

[Baby Spice]

and SAD. Haven't liked a single vote of his

Yeah, because that's a

great

reason to suspect someone.

Why yes it is. Thank you for making sure that everyone knows that.

[Baby Spice]

Vote: AA

You need help.

RVS vote was an early bandwagon vote with what appears to be an insult. What's to like?

Vote: Empire

/serious vote.

Poor vote on player who made an obv town vote. No reason given, but again a bandwagon vote. When pressed a rubbish reason given. What's to like?

Mmm empiretown.

Vote: Mehdi

Blatant bandwagon vote. Admitted blatant bandwagon vote. Don't think you ever gave a reason. Again, what's to like.

Then the dbl voter stunt. There is nothing to like about that.

You spent D1 jumping onto bandwagons and apparently not caring what your read on the wagon actually was. Once you admitted to not reading the game before jumping on a wagon. Even putting out there that you thought Medhi was going to flip town.

You give every appearance of not caring who got lynched D1, and there is no way that that is a voting record to like.
and a voting record that can't be liked puts you towards the scumside.

Vote: MoI

This is happening.

You're only decent vote, since you actually interacted with him. Until I noticed that I'm your highest scumspect that is. Or that NS is your number two. Why vote your number three?

[Baby Spice]

Ugh, waiting for certain people to check back into the thread before I wordvomit.

Whom?

[Baby Spice]

oh fuck.

VOTE: Ser Arthur Dayne

That was so funny.

[Baby Spice]

RL problems are tieing me up for a couple of days.

[Baby Spice]

joh, your sole vote on baby spice is currently a wasted vote
baby, your sole vote on joh is currently a wasted vote

with deadline so close all votes not on one of the two currently leading wagons are wasted votes.

Then lo and behold, two quick votes on me.

Will have to go back and read the DGB thing, but that really didn't sound like her from what has been said since.

Ok it really doesn't sound like her. DGB struck me as someone who threw reads out there without reading the game at all and got annoyed to be called on it. Dfinately could he scum upset at being caught given a reasonless town read on a buddy.


Nacho. Please explain the town reads on MoI and NS as they seem to be the two that Tammy pressured DgB on and that caused her to aparently wig out.

Vote Nacho

[Baby Spice]

I'd prefer a Nacho lynch over a Zach lynch, and I don't have a townread on him, but I think we'd be able to better read the slot with more time and I think Baby Spice is more scummy.

^^ the weaseliest way to not vote nacho ever

Gods it was, wasn't it.

[Baby Spice]

Hey NS, rather than an OMGUS vote, how about you try and show a town reason for your comment?

Why vote now, not a couple of pages ago when I said it?


Snowstorm, it read as if it could have been an in game message to a mason buddy, or possibly a neighbour who gave off good town vibes. We now know that AA wasn't one so that option is out.

[Baby Spice]

Having MOI and myself together in such a situation made it much harder. Also hindsight makes the decision not to bus look real bad.