Mini 1412: 0 Percent Flavor Mafia Finis

[havingfitz]

Confirm

[havingfitz]

Matt-Shadowlord
The Central Scrutinizer
theaceofspades

^ WTF people....confirm already.

[havingfitz]

Extending their QT chit chat?

[havingfitz]

I thought about making the accusation myself but I didn't want to come off ass presumptuous. theaceofspades will definitely be tricky as he will either get replaced fairly quickly or get a pass for being a Vi. Don't know about the others.

[havingfitz]

EBWOP: "ass presumptuous" should have read as "as presumptuous."

[havingfitz]

VOTE: -L- obviously.

[havingfitz]

-L-....let's hear your case on me

Yates...you beat me to it. I was going to point the same thing out with regards to MonkeyMan's comments to me in Post 37. Only I also have the added insight of having played in a game with MonkeyMan that just ended last month in which he was scum and he had pregame chat. So.....

VOTE: MonkeyMan

[havingfitz]

Tired of all the Monkey business.

Looking back he did say "

If

day has started blah blah blah" so UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

What did you learn about lying as Town from mini 922?

Unvote: HD

.

What happened in the last 5 hours to change this:

HD still needs to be lynched.

[havingfitz]

Basically I think HD is defending himself better and there are still people lurking that I'd like to see more of.

HD only made one post between the two of yours I quoted. That was enough to change your mind? And what do people lurking (you mean not posting?) have to do with your unvote? Is that going to make it them more active?

[havingfitz]

Central...I gave a reason for unvoting Monkey.

[havingfitz]

Jesus you guys post a lot

^ This.

Has anyone ever heard of the overposter policy lynch?

(juuuuuust kidding people)

[havingfitz]

OK...catch up from Page 7:

I'm not liking Monkey (and Acting Method's) decisions to just vote lurkers in hopes of getting them to contribute. Yeah...I don't like people who don't post much either but unless you think they are scum I think you should be looking for and voting scum. @Monkey and TAM...are all your suspects contained within the body of players you consider to be lurkers or are there actually any players contributing that you suspect? Basically i think your votes are worthless and done to look busy.

@Yates...I have a degree fo suspicion towards Monkey still as well but I do not agree with your inference that Monkey is pushing a policy lynch on lurkers or that his

pressure votes

on lurkers are similar to anything policy related. He's apparently just trying to be helpful and to improve participation.

@Slaandar...why is HD scum again?

@-L- Scum know who town are (or at least who isn't scum) so if a townperson gives one of their town reads I don't really think it makes a huge difference. I'd rather see people's (ie townies and scum) reads, even if those reads are townreads, so that I can hold them to them later.

@Monkey....do you support lynching lurkers and is that what your current focus is on?

@Yates...why are you focusing on what you perceive the experience levels (right or wrong) of the other players is (i.e. Tohica and ace)? Is that indicative of alignment or are you trying to undermine their credibility...or any other reason? Edit...I see -L- is asking the same thing.

Annnnd what seems like a never-ending dialogue between Yates and -L- that I find myself getting glossy eyed over. Painful actually.

@Yates...any particular reason you could buy a scum argument against me?

Speaking of me...

I'm not German so if people could get the portion of my name they are using right it would be appreciated.

@ace...I would disagree with your assessment that Yate's protip is bad. Especially on D1. Maybe after a day or two after there have been some flips. With no scum lynched yet your focus should be on getting one scum. Not how many there might be.

@Alskudel...what are you talking about when you say I haven't opined on current events? At the point you made your vote on me (and somewhat gave an opinion on "current events") I had provided more content/opinion (IMO) than you had. That's a pretty weak vote if it's anything more than along the lines of Monkey and TAM's

lurker pressure votes.

It will be interesting to see if Slandaar and Yates are the same alignment finally.

On that note...I kind of want to vote Yates. He's posted more than anyone but I'm not sure how productive he's been. It's like he's holding a not so pleasant mafia gameplay seminar while maintaining IMO a narrow focus on Monkey for a lone incident that on further consideration I don't agree with.

I do still have some suspicions towards Monkey as well (moreso for his current lurker voting prods than anything else) but I think Yates is in the lead for me. Just off the top of my head following my read-through catch up I would also put TAM and Matt in list of persons of interest.

VOTE: Yates

[havingfitz]

Hey ace....you left someone out of your reads.

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge. I'll try to get some posts in today.

[havingfitz]

Catching up from my last post mid-page 13 (ffs people that's a lot of posting!):

I kind of like Slandaar's case on HD (though Yate's counterpoints later are good as well).

Yates...what is your read on HD. Are you defending him?

@TCS....HD has had a lot more attention his way and has provided comment (or at least votes) on a lot more people than Slandaar has. So how would a Slandaar lynch give us more info than an HD lynch? (you address this later in Post 583) Why would I (or ace ftm) be town if Slandaar flipped scum resulting in a ~confirmed town read on Monkey?

@Yates....you reply to Monkey's quotes of my points so I'll reply back. I do think focusing on experience levels can be scummy. I took your questions as a way of basically discrediting other players opinions. I rarely use meta, but if another player has limited experience...how is meta even a consideration? And holding someone more experienced to a higher standard is more acceptable IMO than what I see as discrediting someone who has a more recent join date or fewer posts. And when I say you haven't been productive...it's because I see you posting massive amounts of content but I do not recall any benefit coming from them. A lot of debates about theory (iirc), or what did or didn't happen in other games. Tunneling on Monkey for IMO a poor reason. All that within A LOT of votes for me comes across as unproductive.

OK...so I like HD's responses to Slandaar's Post 311 case. They feel genuine.

@Yates....

it's havingfitz, HF (hf) or Fitz (fitz). Not Frittz or Fritz please. I'm confident you are an intelligent person so I have to assume the repeated misspellings are on purpose which makes it even more annoying.

I find myself liking -L-'s posts...but since she is such a capable mafia player whose scum game is exactly the same as her town game, I will have to consider her null.

Annnnnnnnnnnd Matt comes in and plays peacemaker for what reason I do not know.

I like -L-'s thoughts on Matt in this post.

@TCS....why the vote on -L-?

@TCS....I do not vote people who annoy me unless I also happen to find them suspect. Nowhere do i say Yates is annoying me. And everyone "hunts" in their own way. Do not assume I am not hunting. Feel free to assume however that I dislike D1s.

@Monkey....this post makes me come right back to you as a suspect. "I'm not sure L is scum" "Vote: L" WTF?

BTW....did someone make a meta case for L being scum and if so...could they post a link to it. I've been reading but do not recall seeing one. If it is in a wall it could have been skimmed past.

@Yates....why would you say you, if scum, would know you are being investigated tonight? Do we have investigative PRs? Probably. Do you know who they are? Probably not. And as everyone in the game does not suspect you (assumption) why would you assume a potential investigative PR WAS someone who suspected you? And if you think you are suspect enough to everyone to more than likely attract an investigation...why as town would you think scum would want to get rid of you? Since regardless of your alignment you seem to be insinuating that everyone suspects you.

@-L-....do you have any questions for me? While I may produce the occasional wall....usually in my catch up or when I get embroiled in a debate with someone else...I doubt you'll see many of them from me on a D1. I could be wrong....but I doubt it.

@TCS...what did you read that caused to go from Monkey not reading as scum to you and suspecting Slandaar in part for buddying Monkey (ergo Monkey is town) tooooooooooooo Monkey is possible scum and a "deadline lynch" (though his lynch would not garner much info....really?)? It feels like you want to have a certain amount of suspicions on record for Monkey man but you don't want to contribute to his lynch. It feels like you have been trying to work against Monkey's wagon while at the same time having keeping your options open to vote him later?

And still to TCS, a Yates lynch wouldn't garner a lot of info either? A Slandaar lynch would be more informative than an HD lynch. Also, a Monkey lynch wouldn't be very informative. You seem to hold the potential information from flips in very high regards in deciding who to suspect. Is it more imporatant to you to vote the person you suspect the most or the person who's flip you think (for whatever reason) will provide the most info? What info would an -L-or I lynch garner? So you think an -L- lynch provides more info than a Sandaar lynch?

Fcuk this game is producing a lot of material. Eleven pages in 2 days. %^&*(!

I don't have any super strong scum reads. I maintain my suspicions towards Yates and Matt. I also still suspect Monkey and I really did not like his hop over to -L-. Also...I think TCS has taken the place of TAM in my top 4. Sticking with Yates for now.

[havingfitz]

ace....how did I "readily" agree (which by agree I assume you mean liked a comment) with Slandaar? Key word...readily? I also "agreed/aka liked" comments by Yates, HD and-L-...what do you think of that?

You calling me lazy town is funny given my general view towards your gameplay (note my pre-game start comments) and what "excuses" are you talking abou

[havingfitz]

You mention that you suspect fitz several times, but you never vote him. If you are scum he's an auto-lynch tomorrow.

Where does -L- express suspicion towards me (several times) that would indicate a level of suspicion (if at all) that would warrant a vote on me?

[havingfitz]

No questions come to mind, fitz. But if you could let me know your thoughts on alduskkel?

I haven't got much of an opinion on him because he hasn't posted much. I do not like that he hasn't contributed more...but if I were to suspect him for what he has done so far it would basically be for being a lurker which I prefer to not base my votes on. Unless he was active lurking which I do not think he is doing.

You mention that you suspect fitz several times, but you never vote him. If you are scum he's an auto-lynch tomorrow.

Where does -L- express suspicion towards me (several times) that would indicate a level of suspicion (if at all) that would warrant a vote on me?

^ TCS...can you answer this?

Since I don't like to be not voting, ever, VOTE: havingfitz.

And this ---> Really...the best you can do is because you don't like to not be voting? Anything else?

I haven't been satisfied with everyone not looking at alduskkel very closely. I would like to make him the flavor of the month.

I do not recall seeing your opinion on alduskel though you have asked a few (3?) people for their opinions of him. Why does everyone else not looking at him bother you when you don't seem to have looked at him much either prior to this post? What's your opinion of him?


(I'll respond to Yate's post when I can)

[havingfitz]

@Yates....it's havingfitz

1)

I did that 3 posts in a row before catching myself and they were all before your 318 "I'm not German" post. Your assertion that this is somehow scum driven is clearly false and laughable [and potentially scummy but we shall see].

Yates...what is your read on HD. Are you defending him?

2)

I haven't really made an assessment of HD [or yourself for that matter]. Shooting from the hip? I'm not fond of buddying and try not responding to it - which is probably why I'm being accused of "ignoring" HD. He hasn't done or said anything outright scummy, though. He also hasn't said or done anything rah rah pro Town either or dazzled me with a case yet. I am firmly null on him.

As far as the case goes, that was less about HD the player and more about Slandaar's case. As with the case on L, I am responding to the points in the case rather than defending the person that is the object of the case. These are two very different things.

I do think focusing on experience levels can be scummy

3)

I agree. Focusing on experience levels *CAN* be scummy. Would you characterize the way *I* used experience as scummy? Let's explore:

In the first case [where I used his actual join date], it was a tongue-in-cheek poke at Monkey given that the first post on the page mentioned someone else's join date. Monkey and I have played in games together. He knows what's up. I wasn't discrediting him. In fact, I was using his experience to illustrate that he should have first hand knowledge of a particular situation. I later linked to a game that illustrated he *DID* have first hand knowledge. In other words, his EXPERIENCE informed my read.

In L's case, she claimed to have all sorts of experience but said pointing to Monkey's join date was "flimsy." If someone is going to make a claim like that, asking them about their experience is fair game. Case in point:

Spoiler:

I have played mafia too long to have a meta, my dear.

Same goes for ace. When you make an [obviously wrong] declarative statement like "scum is always worried about coming off too hard or appearing frantic," experience is the sub-textual rationale, right? If this had been You or Monkey or Slandaar making this statement, I would have simply said "prove it" and expected you to link to games where your statement matched your claim. If you are accepting statements like these at face value, you are playing the game wrong.

In Toch's case [who isn't even in the game anymore], I wanted to know if he/she had ever been scum and would, thus, have already known the answer to the question they had asked. Toch had been in 4 games and had never been scum so *I* knew it wasn't safe to assume Toch would know anything about how scum chat works. This is actually addressed directly in post 203. If anything, that's the penultimate Town play when it comes to experience.

4)

Bottom line regarding experience, we have a lot of new faces in this game. Mafiascum is a TEAM game. I want my team set up for success so *I* can win. In order to do that, I need to know what strengths and weaknesses people are bringing to the table. If I haven't played with you and I have no meta to look at, I need to ask. If you aren't doing this in other games with new faces, you should be.

And holding someone more experienced to a higher standard is more acceptable IMO than what I see as discrediting someone who has a more recent join date or fewer posts.

5)

Agree to disagree. If you are going to make a nonsensical statement like the one Ace did, I'm going to discredit you or flat out prove you wrong. In his case, discrediting took less effort.

I see you posting massive amounts of content but I do not recall any benefit coming from them.

6)

I just put the seeds in the dirt and you are wondering where the fruit is? Really? I guess all I can tell you is that I have [imho] done more to set this game up for success than any other individual player. I created a polarizing discussion. I have provided meta for consumption. I have set expectations on levels of play. I literally could not have done any more to help this Town short of being a Town Day Cop with a guilty result on a person. I could flip this and ask you for your contribution to the game and all the wonderful benefits you have bestowed upon the Town.

Tunneling on Monkey for IMO a poor reason.

7)

Yeah. That's opinion. Your opinion is wrong but that doesn't make you scum.

Since regardless of your alignment you seem to be insinuating that everyone suspects you.

8)

Rather than engage in a WIFOM argument, who would you investigate first me or someone like ArcAngel or TAM? More often than not, the loud driver of Day 1 is investigated/target N1. I guess I could go link some meta but I have a feeling you have been in enough games to know this is a general rule.

9)

I will also go back to your experience question. If our scum is comprised of entirely newer players, I feel like I can guess with a fairly high probability how nights will go. You and Slandaar are pretty much the only people in this player list I would be concerned with making more complex gambits as scum. Maybe qwints.

Speaking of which...

I maintain my suspicions towards Yates

10)

This is one of those statements I would expect to see from scum. You are saying you are voting me. You are saying you are sticking with me. You made a long post to remind us you were still in the game. You know what you haven't done, though? You have never made a case. Unless this is the entirety of your case:

On that note...I kind of want to vote Yates. He's posted more than anyone but I'm not sure how productive he's been. It's like he's holding a not so pleasant mafia gameplay seminar while maintaining IMO a narrow focus on Monkey for a lone incident that on further consideration I don't agree with.

You were scum in this game where you made no cases but were happy to jump on wagons and make posts similar to this one.

Contrast that with World of Warcraft where you were Town and presented cases [Bumi and Sean - for example] and were WAY more active.

11)

I'm not saying you are scum for suspecting me of being scum - I want to make that clear. What I *AM* saying is that a post like this can be one of those scum posts to plant seeds of doubt in the rest of the Town. I have the advantage of knowing my alignment so I'm sure this reads differently for me. Whether or not you have that advantage as well remains to be seen. I would like to ask you for a case, though, for the record.

1 -

I never asserted that you getting my name wrong was “scum driven.”

2 -

How can this not be seen as defending HD? And why focus on Skandaar’s case on HD and not any other case that any other player might have made on someone?

3 -

I agree with your “*CAN* be.”

4 -

If I perceive someone is using another’s experience level in a way to make them seem less capable I find that suspect.

5 -

OK.

6 -

Mmmmm-kay & TBD.

7 -

You can’t know that if you are town.

8 -

I would investigate whomever I suspected the most…i.e. atm….you.

9 -

You shouldn’t know *WHO* our scum team consists of so this comment says nothing.

10 -

The “Unless this” would be the case for now.

11 -

What you *ARE* making clear is that this comment is null. And my case was provided with my vote.

[havingfitz]

I've said several times now that you were on my scumlist. I set you second to -L- in the large, meaningful, and mildly controversial post several pages ago. Are you not reading?

This is a good wagon.

You have mentioned me a few times but you haven't really said why. That's what I am asking you about. Why do you suspect me?

All I can find from you is this:

havingfitz: Monkeywagon to Yates wagon, not because he thinks Yates is scum, but basically because Yates annoys him. Longest post was all reactions to people, no hunting at all. Moderate scum possibility.

The first point is a misrep from you saying I'm voting Yates for being annoying vs being scum. Which I addressed below without comment by you:

@TCS....I do not vote people who annoy me unless I also happen to find them suspect. Nowhere do i say Yates is annoying me. And everyone "hunts" in their own way. Do not assume I am not hunting. Feel free to assume however that I dislike D1s.

And the long post you refer to is my Post 318 which was not "all reactions to people". In fact...most of it is me asking questions of others and making observations or giving opinions. How is that scummy? Do you not find asking questions helpful in finding scum?

So again....why are you voting me (suspect of me) TCS?

Annnnnnnnnnnnd take #3:

In post 624, havingfitz wrote:

• In post 612, The Central Scrutinizer wrote:You mention that you suspect fitz several times, but you never vote him. If you are scum he's an auto-lynch tomorrow.

Where does -L- express suspicion towards me (several times) that would indicate a level of suspicion (if at all) that would warrant a vote on me?

^ TC S...can you answer this?

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge since I might not be able to get another post in before the 48 hr limit.

[havingfitz]

Damn this game produces a lot of material. fcuk!

-L-....why do you feel funny about the votes on Yates (from Slandaar and Monkey) and FYI, atp Slandaar is not voting Yates.

Brilliant! /sarcasm

Now this would be amusing.

@Norlkaz...where do I admit to not making a scumhunting point becuase of appearances?

@Yates...-L- asked you to post your opinions on each of the players on your wagon. Did I overlook your response or have you not given one?

[havingfitz]

HF:

I thought about making the accusation myself but I didn't want to come off ass presumptuous.

theaceofspades will definitely be tricky as he will either get replaced fairly quickly or get a pass for being a Vi. Don't know about the others.

Uhhh...yeah...that was before the game even started and was said in jest to Alduskkel. There was no scumhunting going on at that point so perhaps you should...................get a clue

[havingfitz]

VOTE: human destroyer

^ Why?

[havingfitz]

I think I could find 4 or 5 games of mine that I have fewer posts in combined, for all 5 games, than either Yates or -L- have in this and we're still in D1. That much posting doesn't do any game any good. You're losing any town luster you might have had from me -L-. You seem to be flailing a lot. Did you ever claim btw? I'm not sure of the vote count but if you're at L-1 you might want to.

[havingfitz]

That much posting doesn't do any game any good.

Maybe this is why you are 25-30 as Town rather than 30-25? I don't mean that as an attack, btw. My point is that input is generally pro Town [scum don't want to be on record - good Town should]. If you consider yourself a good player, why wouldn't you want your opinion stated as arguments arise?

How does that not come across as an attack. You are insinuating that my mafia record is based on the amount of times I post in games. First...you're being an ass with that comment because we all know that we win or lose as town, and those games have no bearing on what happens in this game. I take credit for the losses whether I am a late D1 replacement who makes 10 posts and is killed N1 or if I make it to 3 person LYLO and pick wrong. And second, you're misrepresenting your ~contribution to this game and the effect it is having. No one needs to post 200+ times a day to get their opinions across. Normal players typically have to weed through a small forest for the trees that are scum...whereas thanks to you, and -L-, we've got the fcuking Amazon jungle to work with. If you consider yourself pro-town, why would you want to make it more difficult for your fellow players to look for scum? Which is what you are doing. And finding replacements (if necessary) is going to be real fun on D2 when we're up in the 50s and 60s for page counts. FFS....40 pages on D1 is ridiculous in a mini-normal (IMO of course). /rant

---

As for the current -L- wagon. Why is it still there? She has only become a serious wagon contender in the last 24 hours (can you say quicklynch?) and I find it especially amusing that both the earl;y wagon frontrunners who were at each other's throats are now on the same "team"...or wagon. I especially do not like Monkey's L-1 vote. Because of Matt's convincing case? WTF? Matt didn't even vote her. And his case was by no means a slam dunk. Did you expect someone with a PR to make some sort of comment early in the game that would give anyone the idea that she could be a PR? And despite saying we needed to not lynch her and that Yates was still the scummiest player, you proceed to give him crap for considering bowing down to her flailing? How is that not playing both sides of the fence?

There is no reason we should not let -L- make it to N1 at least, see if she is able to get any result, or let her draw a kill away from the rest of us. And if she makes it to D2 and her claim results don't give us a warm fuzzy...eliminate her tomorrow.

Calling BS on Monkey's recent posting wrt -L-.

VOTE: Monkey

[havingfitz]

Well Monkey...if you personally think you know what I know it must be the truth.

I don't want a no lynch...I want a you lynch. What is your current opinion of Yates?

[havingfitz]

That much posting doesn't do any game any good.

Maybe this is why you are 25-30 as Town rather than 30-25? I don't mean that as an attack, btw. My point is that input is generally pro Town [scum don't want to be on record - good Town should]. If you consider yourself a good player, why wouldn't you want your opinion stated as arguments arise?

How does that not come across as an attack. You are insinuating that my mafia record is based on the amount of times I post in games. First...you're being an ass with that comment because we all know that we win or lose as town, and those games have no bearing on what happens in this game. I take credit for the losses whether I am a late D1 replacement who makes 10 posts and is killed N1 or if I make it to 3 person LYLO and pick wrong. And second, you're misrepresenting your ~contribution to this game and the effect it is having. No one needs to post 200+ times a day to get their opinions across. Normal players typically have to weed through a small forest for the trees that are scum...whereas thanks to you, and -L-, we've got the fcuking Amazon jungle to work with. If you consider yourself pro-town, why would you want to make it more difficult for your fellow players to look for scum? Which is what you are doing. And finding replacements (if necessary) is going to be real fun on D2 when we're up in the 50s and 60s for page counts. FFS....40 pages on D1 is ridiculous in a mini-normal (IMO of course). /rant

---

As for the current -L- wagon. Why is it still there? She has only become a serious wagon contender in the last 24 hours (can you say quicklynch?) and I find it especially amusing that both the earl;y wagon frontrunners who were at each other's throats are now on the same "team"...or wagon. I especially do not like Monkey's L-1 vote. Because of Matt's convincing case? WTF? Matt didn't even vote her. And his case was by no means a slam dunk. Did you expect someone with a PR to make some sort of comment early in the game that would give anyone the idea that she could be a PR? And despite saying we needed to not lynch her and that Yates was still the scummiest player, you proceed to give him crap for considering bowing down to her flailing? How is that not playing both sides of the fence?

There is no reason we should not let -L- make it to N1 at least, see if she is able to get any result, or let her draw a kill away from the rest of us. And if she makes it to D2 and her claim results don't give us a warm fuzzy...eliminate her tomorrow.

Calling BS on Monkey's recent posting wrt -L-.

VOTE: Monkey

The -L- lynch was bullshit. If there aren't at least two scum on her wagon I will be amazed.

VOTE: Monkey

[havingfitz]

I don't have a lot of time to post this weekend but town needs to get their heads out of their arses and vote Monkey. I'll look into it more later but the fact Yates has called a truce with Monkey is extremely suspicious and the entire "look for scum off the wagon" is asinine. We just had a fairly quick quicklynch on a claimed PR and to suggest looking off the wagon is a better option is ridiculous. I'm guessing 2 scum on the wagon with a potential for all 3 (assuming 3 based on no reason not to).

And I don't know what kind of new math Yates is using but if he thinks a likely 2/7th or higher (or 1/3 for from the POV of any town on L's wagon) is better than a likely 1/4th or less scum to town grouping off the wagon, he needs to get some math tutoring.

Yates and Monkey looking like a good combo IMO but Monkey still #1.

[havingfitz]

^ seriously?

[havingfitz]

What you talking about, fitz?

I just said Yates needs to be lynched if HD is scum.

So?

Yates and Monkey looking like a good combo IMO but Monkey still #1.

What are your thoughts on the Matt wagon?

It's not my first choice but I understand why those on it are there. And it seems to be town driven (at the moment at least).

[havingfitz]

People....wtf aren't any of you voting Monkey? Un$%^&@@ believable.

Mod...please prod theaceofspades and Alduskkel.

[havingfitz]

^ maybe not both of them but what are your thoughts now on Monkey and does my recent case on him not give cause for suspicion?

[havingfitz]

@qwints...it's not the same. Matt introduced weak reasons to suspect L and the held off voting her. Monkey was quick to accept weak reasoning and did place a vote.

I have suspicion towards Matt but not to the degree I do towards Monkey.

[havingfitz]

What sound logic? That's the $-%&@* point.

[havingfitz]

Do you typically imply you are a PR on D1 when you aren't under pressure?

Could she have said what she did to make scum look elsewhere for PRs?

[havingfitz]

Would you quit fcuking introducing experience levels to support your poor reasoning? And how was L's comments NOT one of those situations? For one thing...she never lied.

On D1 if some came out and asked you if you were a PR, what would you say? (I' m guessing this IS one of those situations)

P.edit. How is it wifom when I made it before she even flipped?

[havingfitz]

@town, vote Monkey.

[havingfitz]

@town, vote Monkey.

You need to explain why. The post you linked to as a case mentions his vote on L, but voting somebody after they have claimed and one of their posts has been shown to be a lie is not particularly scummy. Matt / TaoS taking the "I wanted to hear from her but I did things to get her lynched" track is much more alarming than Monkey's "OK, that claim does not check out; lynchtime" post. The FoS on me seemed like a genuine 'dude, this person has been caught in a lie and is clearly scum; why are you unvoting' FoS.

Unless you're claiming some flavor of guilty on Monkey, I have other fish to fry today.

I have explained why.

How was L's post a lie?

[havingfitz]

terrible Town play can sometimes be indistinguishable from terrible scum play

Apparently.

Who do you suspect today and why aren't you voting them?

[havingfitz]

TODAY IS THE DAY WHEN I CATCH UP ON THIS GAME

OR AT LEAST IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS

I SWEAR IT WILL HAPPEN

If you are town could you just replace out? You have been a complete non-factor in this game. You are getting close to "lynch for sucking" status and if you are town...that sucks for town.

[havingfitz]

@Yates...HTF did Monkey go to a "possibly" for you?

[havingfitz]

@Yates...HTF did Monkey go to a "possibly" for you?

I'm not going to get into details. The fact remains that he did. Simple as that.

How does this benefit town? If you have a reason for a reduction in suspicions towards Monkey why wouldn't the rest of town benefit from it?

We couldn't get you to shut up yesterday and now you're being coy? Nice. /s

[havingfitz]

You're funny Monkey. You really are coming across scummy and the fact that I'm the only person voting you is extremely annoying.

On your scum list...for what reasons do I appear there and where are your previous suspicions towards me? And where does the switch from Fitz and Yates are town. L and Central are scum. wrt to me (and Central for that matter) occur?

And why are you leaving penguin_alien off your list of suspects?

As for my switch onto you...I've given my reasoning for suspecting you. The fact I did not think your "extended scum QT" related posts were suspect after further consideration has no bearing on my current suspicions towards you.

And call your interactions with Yates today anything you want, but the way you were at each other yesterday compared with today can more than appropriately be considered a truce. Just because you both keep saying you suspect each other means nothing until one of you busses the other through to a lynch.

P.edit....can't you answer a question without a question/s Yates?

[havingfitz]

Monkey.... how the fcuk are my suspicions of you "OMGUSy"?

And as my reads have focused on you and Yates, saying I've been all over the place is a lie and a misrep...especially compared to your activities.

And you didn't answer any of my #1146 questions. Please do.

[havingfitz]

Fitz - you didn't answer any of my post 1144 questions or respond to my answers. Please do.

You have a lot of nerve Yates asking me about responding to questions from you. When I feel you've responded to this sufficiently

@Yates...HTF did Monkey go to a "possibly" for you?

...sure.

And I did respond. To which all I got was this smartass reply:

P.edit....can't you answer a question without a question/s Yates?

Yes.

[havingfitz]

Monkey.... how the fcuk are my suspicions of you "OMGUSy"?

And as my reads have focused on you and Yates, saying I've been all over the place is a lie and a misrep...especially compared to your activities.

And you didn't answer any of my #1146 questions. Please do.

[havingfitz]

^ Monkey is scum so you may find all sorts of inconsistencies.

[havingfitz]

@TCS....so how does Alduskkel go from 4th most suspect player on your list when he isn't doing shit, to the top of your list after he comes on and promises to start contributing?

[havingfitz]

Monkey.... how the fcuk are my suspicions of you "OMGUSy"?

And as my reads have focused on you and Yates, saying I've been all over the place is a lie and a misrep...especially compared to your activities.

And you didn't answer any of my #1146 questions. Please do.

[havingfitz]

Because you are near the top of my scumlist.

Since when. Show me where prior to this scumlist. You calling my suspicions towards you OMGUS is bullshit. Anyone who takes the time to look into it will see as well. And you didn't answer any of my other questions in the post I have now posted 3 times.

More Monkey vote please.

[havingfitz]

Norlkaz, why in the HELL wouldn't you find someone suspect for using "bad reasons" to make an accusation that discredits my vote on him? Seriously.

Try not to defend Monkey so blatantly... almost everything you called a towntell in your defense of MM could be viewed as a reason for suspicion by others.

Is his accusation, and rationale, that I'm being "OMGUSy" something you agree with?

[havingfitz]

Because you are near the top of my scumlist.

Since when. Show me where prior to this scumlist. You calling my suspicions towards you OMGUS is bullshit. Anyone who takes the time to look into it will see as well. And you didn't answer any of my other questions in the post I have now posted 3 times.

More Monkey vote please.

[havingfitz]

@Yates...I'm basing my suspicions of Monkey on how I've perceived his play. A continuation of my end of D1 suspicions plus his play today. Nothing related to potential night actions/results.

[havingfitz]

Good job town bringing home the win.
Nice flavor mod.
It was fun while it lasted.

[havingfitz]

Honestly I think it only occurred since you guys had day talk so while I think it was a scum tell I don't think it was for the reason most were using to explain it.

I was responding to fitz' comment, which was vague. I don't see how asking someone for clarification is a tell. I try to act the same as town as I do as scum. I would have asked the same question if I was town. Maybe I tend to comment on things too much for my own good, but Yates uses meta cases and appeal to authority way too much. Town players should seek to involve otwasher teammates opinions and not put themselves above the rest of the team.

I for one didn't think you were scum for the daychat thing... it was the rest of your game I found scummy.