Open Role 5: Switch Mafia. Over. - before 384

[Relyte]

Vote Klebian

for eh... being in another game of mine.

[Relyte]

IH, I'm not sure who you're attacking, can you elaborate whom?

[Relyte]

(I can't actually remember the reason, but I do remember it was early day 1 so the reason can't have been that strong.)

I told people not to bandwagon so early, scum could easily force a Night 1 easy, and then act like it was an accident that they hammered.

[Relyte]

I think people misunderstood me, here is my defense:

1. This nearly happened to a player in another game of mine. I should have been more aware that with 10 people, it won't happen as easily as it will with 7.

2. What, I think everyone thinks is that I was only defending myself, unless I remember incorrectly, someone else also had 2-3 votes or so on them. This was back in the random stage I believe.

Can someone please elaborate on what IH did?

I do remember as soon as I did my, "Don't bandwagon" thing, he tried to attack me to get people off him, it worked... partly.

Also from a metagaming point of view, (other forum) IH doesn't act like he usually does. Then again, it has been about 3-4 months or so since I've played a Mafia game with him. Don't trust this 100%.

The FOS of the day goes to: IH

[Relyte]

this game isn't moving

QFT



Releyte, stop trying to start a counterwagon on yourself to get attention off your scumbuddy.

I can't be starting one when he has like 3 votes on him. (Going by last VC.)

What do you want me to do sit around and vote someone I find less scummy?

[Relyte]

IH learn the point of a FoS.

It's to show that you find someone slightly scummy, not to not vote someone.

But since you think I'm not voting you because I'm scared if you turn up town, I'll be suspicious; I'll be willing to prove you otherwise.

Vote: IH

Now you're at 2 more for a lynch.

We may want to consider claims.

[Relyte]

Vote Klebian

for eh... being in another game of mine.

Keep in mind this thread is only about 2 pages long or so. (Counting after random votes and the Mods rules, VCs, etc.)

[Relyte]

even before the crash

We lost

at most

1 page with the crash. I think it was a LOT less though.

[Relyte]

Whose question was that Conflux.

And I coulda sworn your name had an R in it.

Your own.

Maybe we had 3 or 4. Whatever. Doesn't really matter IMHO. If we can't even remember what we were voting you for.

[Relyte]

Okay, IH.

How does the thread length effect the game?

At least I'm willing to admit what I did to get votes on me.

If we had an extra 2 pages, great. It's not like there was super important information on who was scum in those pages.

I believe all we talked about it is how it was bad it was for me to make my scummy statement and yours.

The length does not change who the scum is.

Maybe we did have 3 or 4 pages in length.

I don't really care. It can't be fixed now. You shouldn't use the crash as evidence against someone, because it's not as if the crash held game-winning evidence in it.

...and please don't misinterpret me. All I'm saying is, why are you so eager to bring back the pre-crash thread, when you won't even tell us the scummy thing you did.

Now don't misinterpret you again, I am not trying to incriminate you. I'm just wondering what it is you did, because honestly, if I can remember what I did and tell everyone what it was, you can too.

[Relyte]

Unfortunately Relyte, if we're talking about how many FOS's you did instead of votes, then the thread length does matter. Alas, we cannot get this information back.

I'll also

unvote Vote:Lowell

until I hear something from him.

How does a FOS make me suspicious? I'm only showing who I think to be suspicious.

However, if you think I'm trying to say, "I'm not scum because I didn't vote so-and-so, I only FOS'd him." You're wrong, I could easily use WIFOM, to say that.

Anyway, all I'm asking is can you please recall what you said that's scummy.

Maybe you're avoiding it, maybe you're not, I'm not trying to use it to incriminate you, I'm just wondering what it is... and you seem to just keep avoiding it.

[Relyte]

Also I do not mean that FoS's are suspicious, I just personally think it's strange to use

only FoS's

. I myself only use them if we're in a Lynch or Lose situation, or if I feel strong with my vote and don't want to change it.

People have different playing styles.

Plus, I have vote at least twice in the course of this game. I believe I also voted for you in the stuff that was lost in the crash. I'm not sure, but I believe I said it was suspicious that you were trying to put the blame on someone as soon as they came up.

[Relyte]

IH just answer the question and then I'll shut up. I don't like missing pieces and you keep accusing me with it to try and get past the point I just want to know what it is.

I didn't vote you until two people were on you? First off: Who are you to say that I wasn't able to access my PC before the other two people so I couldn't voice my opinions before them. Second: Are you implying I'm scum by hopping on the bandwagon? In this game that's not even close to majority. Three =/= Seven.

I will and have openly admitted that I do FOS a lot, but seriously I don't see what's wrong with it. Someone isn't voteworthy so I give them a FOS.

Sure. I do it more often than most people, if you want me to vote more than FOS then that's your opinion.

[Relyte]

I think it was because after that bandwagon thing, I said something along the lines of "Maybe you really did mean it" or something, and that we shouldn't jump on so quick for the statement, but I either voted you or FoSed you one or the other.

Also I do not mean that FoS's are suspicious, I just personally think it's strange to use only FoS's. I myself only use them if we're in a Lynch or Lose situation, or if I feel strong with my vote and don't want to change it.


Also I think I know where I'm getting this excess of FoS's from you, because you are in a few other games with me, and I was getting all those FoS's mixed together in my head I think...

There's your answer, already answered last page.

I'll answer the rest later.

Oh crash makes me forget stuff, and I kinda only "skimmed" your last post.

[Relyte]

IH listen: I've told you countless times: It's not what you said before the crash, it's the fact you're downright refusing to tell me what it is. I've told you many times I just want to know what it is, because apparently it's something worth hiding.

Yes, I accidentally contradicted myself, I needed to be in the right shoes to see it.

On another note I have no clue who I have currently voted so if I do have someone:

Unvote

SL brings up a good point: I don't really have much of a case against IH right now.

[Relyte]

Still in.

[Relyte]

Didn't the mod already say it was a mistake?

[Relyte]

I didn't get a strong impression from other players, but glancing at a "view all by" of Romanus and Lowell, I like Romanus and am pretty eh on Lowell.

vote: Relyte

, I think it's good.

Funny how both of them suck up to you after the posts. And jump on the beginning of a bandwagon.

@Kelly: I will admit I missed those answers. I will admit, stuff pre-crash does matter. (Something I believe I said that got deleted in recent crash.)

My bizarre thing was bizarre, but that's what it was meant to be: Bizarre. It was an example. It obviously didn't happen, but he didn't have proof that, I hadn't gotten around to reading this thread before someone else while jumping on him.

As for the questions being answered. The first time he answered it, I missed it and thought I read everything pre-crash. The second time I acknowledged it. Then I didn't read the thread for 5 days. (Dates.) I must have forgotten.

I did contradict myself, I will also admit. Wanting the info. IH said, but I did say, I only wanted to know what it was.

Why you guys are trying to push scum on me because I didn't remember the exact number of pages left: I don't have a clue in hell.

I think it was because after that bandwagon thing, I said something along the lines of "Maybe you really did mean it" or something, and that we shouldn't jump on so quick for the statement, but I either voted you or FoSed you one or the other.

Also I do not mean that FoS's are suspicious, I just personally think it's strange to use only FoS's. I myself only use them if we're in a Lynch or Lose situation, or if I feel strong with my vote and don't want to change it.


Also I think I know where I'm getting this excess of FoS's from you, because you are in a few other games with me, and I was getting all those FoS's mixed together in my head I think...

There's your answer, already answered last page.

I'll answer the rest later.

IH can you point me in the direction of "the rest." I either missed it or you haven't posted it yet.

And I promise this time I'll read it. ^^;

[Relyte]

I did contradict myself, I will also admit. Wanting the info. IH said, but I did say, I only wanted to know what it was.

Eh?

Oh, and, nothing got deleted in recent crashes, I believe.

Was talking about the earlier crash, I believe.

Sorry, was typing fast, in a hurry.

Meant to say, "I did contradict my self, with the wanting the thing IH said, even though it was pre-crash."

[Relyte]

Reylte seems to like to post only to defend yourself. I don't remember him contributing to anything else. Maybe you could give us your opinions, Reylte on who you think is scummy

Right now, no one in particular. It does seem strange to me however, that Kelly tries to pin the blame on me, dismisses Lowell and IH from all suspicion.

And just because Lowell and Romanus believe Kelly they immediately hopped on me, with no major prior suspicion.

TBH, Kelly does not have ALL the information the thread has contained. She never read any posts that were lost in crash, she doesn't know what has been answered and what has not been answered, except for the posts that still exist.

As for this post,

I didn't get a strong impression from other players, but glancing at a "view all by" of Romanus and Lowell, I like Romanus and am pretty eh on Lowell.

vote: Relyte

, I think it's good.

Funny how both of them suck up to you after the posts. And jump on the beginning of a bandwagon.

IS it funny?

Why you guys are trying to push scum on me because I didn't remember the exact number of pages left: I don't have a clue in hell.

I can't tell if this is a joke or a serious attempt to dismiss the people who suspect you.

I just don't like it.

I thought it was quite obvious I was a bit upset and sarcastic that Romanus and Lowell immediately hopped on me, and Kelly--who IMO is a clever player--should know this. Then she attempts to shorten my fuse even further, I'd like to know. What evidence is there against me besides the whole argument over "The Crash"?

Let's look at it this way: I personally think the crash is an excuse for scum to get me lynched.

Does the Number of Pages I guessed have to do with the game? No.
Does me saying that the Crash doesn't matter, because we'll get more evidence? No. It's my opinion.
Does me not noticing IH's answers because I have less time to read these forums as of late make me scum? No.

Kelly, I think you personally are trying to push a weak case on me. If the crash never happened half your points would be gone.

[Relyte]

Reylte...Maybe you could give us your opinions, Reylte on who you think is scummy

QFT

Unvote Vote SV

SL learn to read perhaps?

Two posts up.

[Relyte]

bump

Don't make us request a prod on you ShadowLurker

I believe you mean SpectrumVoid.

[Relyte]

What I meant is that SL has posted recently. Post 190.

[Relyte]

Merry Christmas... if anyone's still around...

Thanks.

[Relyte]

If I remember the post, (Lazy right now) I had no particular reason. I went back at my posts, and saw that I really did have a weak case against him at the time.

[Relyte]

.... I am not happy with SpectrumVoid at all.

In my opinion, nothing significant has happened. There's nothing wrong with putting 2 votes on someone early day, and there's nothing wrong with telling people not to quick-lynch. So back to square one.

....(SV says-Let's forget this thing ever happened and start over. K?)

The line you quoted was in response to Conflux's question, so I'll clear them up together. Basically wagons are good in early day 1 to get discussion going. Bandwagons = bad in a small game because it's easy for mafia to hop on. (provided they're smart scum and give some kind of reason.) I know people who disagree with me have said that wagons give us info, but in a small game it may be too late for the info to be of use if we lynch the wrong people one time too many. But anyway, this is a discussion for the tactics thread, not here.

Also another discussion that isn't really in-game: Relyte's and IH's. I myself use quite a number of FOS when I think it's necessary. I like using FOSes because it makes it clear to everyone exactly where I stand. Therefore, I disagree with IH's attack on Relyte.

mmm.... good answer at the top... but I don't like the defense on Relyte. She just says she doesn't agree with my attack on Relyte.... maybe it's just the way it's worded, but it pings as more of a defense IMO.

I still maintain the opinion that IH is pushing an extremely weak case on Relyte. I agree with Post 79. I also don't think Romanus was right in saying Relyte is being over defensive. I read it as natural defensiveness to a weak attack.

....

I buy the case for klebian.

vote: klebian

I honestly have no impression on Romanus at the moment. But lowell's case for him seems to be meta-gaming, and meta-gaming isn't always accurate. I'll go take a look.

Jumping on a wagon.

OMG. I meant to put a FOS: klebian

Just to make it clear for the mod, unvote whoever, vote IH

Jumped to the wrong wagon I see.

My position on the battle is Romanus's position. That whole discussion should have gone into the strategy/tactics thread. The mistake with the thinking all mistakes are scummy bit is something that I've done myself before when I was cop, so I'm not taking that as a scum-tell.

.....not if the discussion is about tactics that scum would use more.

Hm... I'm back. I see we have gone nowhere. I'll will attempt to get it somewhere.

vote: Thok

.....Apparently not forceful enough until down here, which confuses me a bit.

Sorry, was suffering from a post-exam hangover I think...

I like that 'IH was running around everywhere running like a mad man bit.' My vote stays.

Yet her vote stays on Thok? Did she forget, did Yos not count it since she didn't unvote, or what? I also haven't really seen any reason for these votes. It's just like she hoppped onto my wagon... accidental like. Then it's like she didn't even remember why she had her vote on me.

"I like that 'IH was running around everywhere running like a mad man' bit"

BA has been active elsewhere... weird. Hi Jules and Kelly!

I have a pretty high voting threshold, and other people like MBL have commented on it in many of my other games. I see FOSes as a nice tool to clearly show where I stand, ie, that I think a player has shown scumtells, and I generally vote only when I really want a lynch. I don't think I have enough scumtells and there hasn't been enough discussion to start pushing for a lynch.

I think your quotes are missing context. The first one happened in a squabble between IH and Relytye regarding how pages was the thread. IH was accusing Relyte of not posting much (I think.) The bizarre complaint was in response to IH accusing Relyte of wagoning. I think what is more noteworthy is the 3 =/= 7 bit.

Edit after preview: IH's case on Relyte now seems to hinge on the Relyte pushing IH for an answer bit. It's dinged on my scumdar, but I've seen townies do exactly the same thing.

WROWNG!

Yes I meant to spell it wrong. That actually DIDN'T hinge on Relyte pushing me for an answer.
1.the answer was there
2.it started out with Relyte not voting, remember(except for his random vote)? I was thinking that perhaps only using FoS's were scummy, as you threw suspicion on someone, but didn't actually take any part of the action.
3.Relyte changed the argument to "I told you what I did, why are you hiding what you did?"

As I said, I am NOT HAPPY AT ALL.

Unvote, vote:Spectrumvoid

I usually don't forget things/people I'm unhappy with.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuspicious.

[Relyte]

232... should seriously not be hard to understand. IH gave the impression of having completely forgotten that he'd gone after SV instead of Relyte for awhile.

Also, I just noticed this, but he lists one quote being from me which was from someone else, presumably SV since he's quoting the rest to him.

It's possible, if he's scum, he mixed up who he was pushing the blame onto.

[Relyte]

vote: Relyte

Everybody was wrong who felt IH was going after Relyte with scummy intent. So look at him again. FOS: Lowell for screwing this up yesterday.

Let's look back a bit,

I never accused IH of being scum within a few days of the deadline... and if you look back, I was not on the IH wagon when he was lynched. *Cough* Lowell *Cough* I only defended myself against him for claims that were... dare I say it...

"stupid."

Once again, a case without evidence is being pushed on me.

[Relyte]

Let's look back a bit,

I never accused IH of being scum within a few days of the deadline... and if you look back, I was not on the IH wagon when he was lynched. *Cough* Lowell *Cough* I only defended myself against him for claims that were... dare I say it...

"stupid."

The fact that you didn't try to vote anybody to save yourself, doesn't say that much about your alignment.

Do you think Lowell's scum too? He kept you from being lynched you know.

I never said he was scum.

But if you're going to bring this up, does him saving me make him not scum?

I am not accusing him in anyway, just making a point.

[Relyte]

I'd appreciate it if you'd answer this Kelly:

What point were you trying to prove with me supporting the IH wagon.

I believe somewhere I said something along the lines of, "ShadowLurker is right, my case against IH has no ground."

IH was persistent though, and continued to attack me so I defended myself.

So why are you voting me for something I had nothing to do with?

The only thing I can see you might mean by that is that: You're trying to say you think IH was right about me? If "yes" is your answer, then do I need to point out that IH had almost no evidence against me?

[Relyte]

This all happened within 24 hours. Whoa. Had I been around I coulda counter-claimed on Kelly.

Congrats Scum. Even though, whoever said it is right, the game is heavily pro-Scum.

[Relyte]

I had considered Kelly, especially when she tried to follow in IH's plans to lynch me... but knowing Kelly she could somehow turn it on me.