Street Racers: New York (Game over!)

[Jal]

Slandaar, you're twisting what I said. I didn't say other scum doesn't have a PR, just that it's stupid that scum hold so many protective PRs. It's already been shown that scum have some ability to force a lynch during the day and probably a strong man with B&B's death going though. I'mma gunna guess they don't all belong to one team especially given a blue goon was flipped.

Boni if you agree with Darthe then vote someone he thinks is scum. Arguing with AA is useless and I have shown she is obviously not scum with any team.

[Jal]

Slandaar, you're twisting what I said. I didn't say other scum doesn't have a PR, just that it's stupid that scum hold so many protective PRs. It's already been shown that scum have some ability to force a lynch during the day and probably a strong man with B&B's death going though. I'mma gunna guess they don't all belong to one team especially given a blue goon was flipped.

Boni if you agree with Darthe then vote someone he thinks is scum. Arguing with AA is useless and I have shown she is obviously not scum with any team.

[Jal]

* so many would hold.

Blah accidental spam posting.

[penguin_alien]

I'm of several minds about the Jal wagon. On the one hand, I didn't see what Slaandar did yesterday WRT Baby Spice, but he turned out to be correct, so that inclines me to buy into his reads off the bat. But then it seems that his initial basis for calling out Jal was saying that she had extra information obtained by being scum to know which kills should be credited to which faction, namely who the blues NK'd, yet that was demonstrated to be incorrect, negating the whole start of the wagon. But then there's how Jal responded to being run up so far. Which upon rereading her ISO, seems pretty consistent with a town mindset in terms of continuing to scum-hunt while defending herself. Admittedly this is my first multiball game, and I understand that such a set-up makes it easier for scum to maintain such a townie attitude, but it's consistent and doesn't feel like scum flailing to me.

I'm also not sure I agree with Slaandar being so certain that ArcAngel9 and Boniface are town. While ArcAngel9 can be impulsive, I think it's more a matter of playstyle across the board rather than a town tell, and while we didn't lose a PR with the JacobSavage lynch, it certainly wasn't thanks to her concern for such an outcome. I read her explanation for thinking that JacobSavage was at L-2, but that all happened in < 10 posts, from StrangerCoug's vote count to her hammer. JacobSavage is at L-2 in the vote count, he responds to something, Baby Spice votes, and The Mini-Librarian points out that JacobSavage's response

made when he was still at L-2

was not congruent with town play in such a situation. Yes, Baby Spice should have noted that her vote put JacobSavage at L-1, but as scum her failure to do so isn't exactly shocking. ArcAngel9 becoming defensive and then immediately claiming that by being defensive she's obviously town is shady too. And I still don't feel like ArcAngel9's push on Albus Dumbledore tracked very well last day phase; it felt scum-motivated with the willingness to jump around and vote based on associations with unflipped players.

Boniface's push on ArcAngel9 makes me think better of him than his play yesterday, although again I don't quite buy his actions from last day phase as town-motivated despite his explanations. He felt that the wagon on Albus Dumbledore was wrong, but instead of trying to explain his gut town read or get those on the wagon to explain their case more clearly, he jumps to asking for a claim? I get that the early play from PMysterious as quoted by Slandaar was fairly townie, but it doesn't negate some rather weird claim-hunting.

Slandaar, how do you find The Mini-Librarian to be likely scum given the claim? It was made before any town PRs had died, which meant that it was an incredibly risky choice for a fake claim. If njoseph had been the first town PR to die, TML would have had to explain not taking vig shots if lying. Or if an investigative role got killed, scum-TML'd be stuck making up results for the rest of the game. This isn't to say that I don't want TML to answer your question about the protection choices made thus far, but is the evidence against TML enough to outweigh a really awful choice for a fake-claim?

Push comes to shove, I'm finding ArcAngel9 to have the scummiest postings the last couple day phases.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, you're twisting what I said. I didn't say other scum doesn't have a PR, just that it's stupid that scum hold so many protective PRs.

Yes I know what you said.

Lets look at it a different way; TML claims to be RB'ed so we have to assume red can RB or TML is scum. You seem to believe he is town which means you are happy to accept there is a JK and a RB/JK role.

JK on one team RB/JK on another; so, why is it so insane that instead of having a RB role the red has a protective role which is basically the other side of the coin for a JK?

It's already been shown that scum have some ability to force a lynch during the day and probably a strong man with B&B's death going though. I'mma gunna guess they don't all belong to one team especially given a blue goon was flipped.

OK, but you didn't know this at the time (or shouldn't) so it doesn't mean anything.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, how do you find The Mini-Librarian to be likely scum given the claim? It was made before any town PRs had died, which meant that it was an incredibly risky choice for a fake claim. If njoseph had been the first town PR to die, TML would have had to explain not taking vig shots if lying. Or if an investigative role got killed, scum-TML'd be stuck making up results for the rest of the game. This isn't to say that I don't want TML to answer your question about the protection choices made thus far, but is the evidence against TML enough to outweigh a really awful choice for a fake-claim?

It isn't risky comparatively.

Compared to other claims how likely was he to be counter claimed? pretty low I would say.
Then the fact if a PR doesn't die for a couple days he doesn't have to make anything up regarding his actions...
He also wouldn't have known when he claimed there was a vig so that argument isn't completely legit.

Basically; what is a safer claim?

[Slandaar]

Then why did you said you listed Baby's scum team?

Me: I didn't
you: YOU DID
Me: no
you: yes!

A Quote might be a good idea???

[Slandaar]

Why TML is scum;

Whoa baby

VOTE: thezmon221

Definite scum here.

Why thezmon is scum

59: Ignores essentially the entire thread to post a rv. Shows that he is actually reading the thread (responds to bird and beast's question about experience) but doesn't do anything productive at all with the gamestate.

67: suggests that it's good play to vote for who you think is scummiest at this stage of the game, still has a vote on someone who hasn't posted.

I want to talk to Mastin before moving forward with a super serious post. I kinda want to lynch Thezmon221 though.

Do it.

--

town lean on nhammen
town parama
nj gets his town lean revoked

@aj:

I get it you don't think thez is scum. I'll just get him lynched without you. OK?

Explain how my post is scummy

Your looking for a lynch no matter who it is. That is scummy. Unseencamo also looks scummy now.

*sigh* I think Thez is scum. I've been consistent about this. I want him lynched and dead. So no, I wouldn't say I'm "looking for a lynch no matter who it is".

This arc wagon is just full of bad votes... Ugh. Jacob needs to explain his vote immediately.

@jal or nhammen or really anyone

: Can you show me what posts show thez town and why? I just don't see it.

OK up till now we see TML saying thez is scum all good. He even asks for people to show why thez is town.

Jal responded with some sort of 'eh town mentality here'

Then;

um, yeah.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: idiotking

the top half of 511 does not lead to a b&b vote in any way. Fabricated read etc.

After this post he doesn't mention his thez suspicion again

WHERE DID IT GO? ITS JUST GONE BECAUSE JAL SAID SOMETHING THAT HAS NO RELATION TO HIS CASE???

He literally doesn't mention thez the rest of the game.

Doesn't seem town to me.

Also worth noting is he didn't talk about it with Jal. He just asked, got some response and off he went voting my slot.

[Slandaar]

See here is the interesting thing with TML's claim he was Roleblocked

Red must have roleblocked him if he was.

Except blue killed B&B

And it should have been obvious to blue he was going to be protecting B&B so why did blue shoot B&B if he is in fact a doc?

Eh I think TML is blue scum.

[Slandaar]

And it explains why the thez suspicion vanished it was an awkward bus/distancing act.

[Jal]

Slandaar, you're twisting what I said. I didn't say other scum doesn't have a PR, just that it's stupid that scum hold so many protective PRs.

Yes I know what you said.

Lets look at it a different way; TML claims to be RB'ed so we have to assume red can RB or TML is scum. You seem to believe he is town which means you are happy to accept there is a JK and a RB/JK role.

JK on one team RB/JK on another; so, why is it so insane that instead of having a RB role the red has a protective role which is basically the other side of the coin for a JK?

It's already been shown that scum have some ability to force a lynch during the day and probably a strong man with B&B's death going though. I'mma gunna guess they don't all belong to one team especially given a blue goon was flipped.

OK, but you didn't know this at the time (or shouldn't) so it doesn't mean anything.

A JK is a protection role, just like a doctor but with a Rb potential. For scum, it can be used for the exact same purposes as a doctor role for protecting themselves. This isn't rocket science. I very much doubt scum are going to have a bunch of protection across the board. If they do, it's stupid - like I said.

It's the same reason that I very much doubt there are two scum roleblockers in this game like you're proposing with TML - it is stupid, more so for role blockers because of their potential interaction.

A doctor can't even tell if they are blocked or if another role interfered

. TML made an assumption. I right off the bat suggested there's probably a strong-arm vs another roleblocker, champ.

I was roleblocked last night Really the only explanation for B&B's death.

Could also mean a strongman if this is true.

[Jal]

Penguin have you even looked at the AA scum wow game that has been linked? Her meta is different here vs there. She is not scum.

Eh I think TML is blue scum.

Stop.

Whoa baby

VOTE: thezmon221

Definite scum here.

TML casts his first vote serious vote in the game against scumbuddy Thez who had no prior suspicion vs keeping it on his RVS vote or choosing among 23 other choices he could probably fixate on?

No.

[Slandaar]

It's the same reason that I very much doubt there are two scum roleblockers in this game like you're proposing with TML - it is stupid, more so for role blockers because of their potential interaction.

A doctor can't even tell if they are blocked or if another role interfered

. TML made an assumption. I right off the bat suggested there's probably a strong-arm vs another roleblocker, champ.

You know I think you are right

So, how did blue kill B&B again when a doc protected him

Ah.

[Slandaar]

Whoa baby

VOTE: thezmon221

Definite scum here.

TML casts his first vote serious vote in the game against scumbuddy Thez who had no prior suspicion vs keeping it on his RVS vote or choosing among 23 other choices he could probably fixate on?

No.

I did see that I quoted it; I don't care.

Just because he pushed on bluescum does not mean he is not bluescum. Bussing is not a myth.

[PeregrineV]

@Jal- I had you mostly as a town read until part of your today posting. Even then, you explained it. Why do you think I'm suspicious of you?

You just made it clear you were suspecious of me by pointing out what I said didn't look like what I said. You also just said in this sentence that you mostly has me as a town read until a part of your posting today, meaning you still are suspicious of me and not acting on it.

Right now, you're mostly ignoring the discussion over my wagon. If you still had me as a town read, then I figure you'd say something like others are concerning not seeing what they are seeing. If you thought I was scum, you'd vote me.

You're limobing purposely.

I don't consider it a scumslip because of 2715 where you explained it. Therefore, it was probably just badly said. Therefore, I'm keeping my town read on you. Therefore, I'm not voting you.

Ignoring the discussion? You have 3 votes. (NM, 6 now....)

Crap. Fine. Vote DV and I'll go find the crap on your wagon.

[PeregrineV]

Jal (6): Slandaar, Albus Dumbledore, Allyra, Darthe, Lurker, DV

A Baby Spice kill is also a noticeable difference from blue scum's usual tactic of killing big time town reads

SCUM FOUND

CONFIRMED

THIS IS BABY SPICES BUDDY

VOTE: Jal

LYNCH IT SO I DONT HAVE TO READ THREAD THANKS.

Refuted in 2715. Also, I noticed your play has "evolved" since the last time I've played with you. Any particular reason for that?

Unless they truly thought Nacho and B&B were scum

Just quoting this part since Slandaar didn't include it in his quote and it's kind of important for demonstrating his point.

vote: Jal

@Albus- Can you elaborate more on what part of Slandaar's Jal case is resonating most strongly with you?

2722- Understandable responses to Jal posts, but I disagree with your conclusion. (looks like more in 2723, but I;'ll come back to that)

@Darthe- do you have any specifics on what you found?

Jal wagon as comprised right now is all bluster and nothing else.

As for a lynch I'm leaning towards Edourist also. Need some time to actually go over things though.

This is some interesting interplay. I think I am going to run a Jal, mini, baby triangle and see what pops up.

Okay guys, I avoided quoting half of the 300 post interplay between those three and I just skimmed it but really didn't need to do moer than that. They are almost certainly together unless I am missing something, Jal and Spice for sure.

vote jal

Sheep time since I can't catch up

VOTE: JAL

Bad sheep. Sheep me.

DV is scum, so any reason he gives is bullshark anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

ArcAngel9 (1): penguin_alien
Boniface (1): ArcAngel9
DeasVail (1): PeregrineV
Jal (6): Slandaar, Albus Dumbledore, Allyra, Darthe, Lurker, DeasVail
PeregrineV (1): Jal
Not voting (3): Boniface, Edosurist, The Mini-Librarian

With

13

alive, it takes

7

players to lynch.

[PeregrineV]

Slandaar- Maybe weak town but I was going to check.

Slandaar, are you pretty sure about Jal? Because he's another townread, but I will probably follow you.

Jal- Strong Townread

I thought Heather's replace out post was really townish. I think that the extent to which Heather gets annoyed (and it's pretty much confirmed as genuine in the post where she actually replaces out) is only really possible from town, and Jal's play being townish as well makes my read pretty strong.

I just like 364. I think it's really natural.

The exchange that happens beginning at 1190 I feel is really genuine because I didn't understand what was going on either, and I think scum would be much more careful about possibly not knowing something that town would know.

Vote: Jal

Tired of ranting, but I think the contradiction here speaks for itself.

[Slandaar]

DV is more likely town for that than scum.

[Jal]

Pere, how has Slandaar evolved? What does that mean?

Actually, I'm going to drop my TML town read because he's been posting elsewhere but not there when we're having a debate over his town/scum status for the past few days.

Also, I just realized I was at L-1. Screw that.

[Jal]

DV is more likely town for that than scum.

Why?

Also:

UNVOTE:

I'm back to thinking Pere is town. I'm just going to consider myself shit this game. I got myself into too many games at once.

[The Mini-Librarian]

Ugh, sorry guys. I'm really sick right now and my modding shit comes first.

First things first, why the fuck are people arguing about my towniness currently when NOBODY is voting me?

Is it just that people have this weird idea that I'm scumbuddies with Jal?

I think someone asked who I protected last night, it was AA closest thing to townread I have this game.

As for me, my Thez suspicion that died on the second day for me, mainly because I was convinced other people were scum.

Any other questions?

Vote tomorrow when I can actually concentrate.

[Darthe]

I will post on the Mini-Jal-Spice connection soon, jesus I am busy lately. Sorry all, maybe tomorrow?

Mini, you're getting pushed on because I left Jal a believable out and Saal ran with it. Then Jal did. Clearly, concrete is not in their nature.

Amusing, but ultimately futile.

Lynch Jal now and profit? We can watch the other scum team finish them off then.

[Slandaar]

Why?

Because he knew what he was doing and how it would look; as scum he probably just doesn't do it for the heat he would assume it would bring.

He is not some newbie who has no clue what it would look like which is the only type of player that terrible case might apply to.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote count on the next page (assuming you're able to get them to load correctly—with my workaround, it may be just the next post).