Micro 148: 50/50 Mafia (OVER)

[PimHel]

vote: hamlet

No more ._.

[PimHel]

To me, it's annoying as I'm not from England. I don't think anyone would like it if I'd post Dutchglish. Besides, it's old English for a reason.
The above conversation has drawn my attention. I'll look more closely at it after work

[PimHel]

Why FoS? You could also do:

D

I

E

[PLAYER]

,

D

I

E

I wanted to do 'sparkly rainbow' style, but I'm not good with computers >.<
FoSing aside (Are there actually still people using them O.o?), I'm very against

vote2

. Easy to 'accidentaly' screw up. See rules, unvoting is not obligated.

Now to the important part. Like I said, the convo between KX and theNE caught my attention. It gave me the feeling that one of them is trying to appear as helping town. As extra, one of them FoSed, while keeping their random vote.

unvote: dead language

Vote: thenewearth

P.S. Happy scum day,

mod

[PimHel]

Don't tell me you thought my coloured option for the second vote was the good point O.o

Also, I saw that I have a fellow Dutchie~

[PimHel]

I know there are, CE. I'm just happy to see one again (A)

My previous vote was Hamlet, who's speaking old English. I can't stand it and chose to express it that way.

[PimHel]

@theNE
Yeah, right. You say it's just a FoS, as if your attack isn't important. But on the other hand, you are one of the few who wants to use FoS to show where your second vote lies. With that said, can you respond to my vote?
Also, I want to look up some of your past town games. Links?

@KX
Post #50, it seems you want to discuss how to show where players will put their anon vote. But at post #55, after one player mentioned something about it, it looked to me as it bothers you. What gives?
Not liking the feel of you keeping your options open on theNE: No vote and asking his age.

[PimHel]

PimHel was typing?

[PimHel]

1. I didn't ask for the meta to see how you act as town. I wanted to look if you've used 'your faction' in town games.
2. I wanted you to respond to my vote as you hadn't said anything about it yet. But you did just now.
3. I might get back to this post, I'm waiting for something first.

@KX Why village idiot?

[PimHel]

@theNE
Yes, I suspect you also due to the FoS. And I still care about it as I don't like it when players keep their random vote, while having someone who they think is scummy. Could you explain why the change of using 'your faction' this game?
P.S. Could you answer KX's question in post #72

@KX
Would you have asked theNE for meta if I hadn't done so? And if so, when would you have done so?

Kid A and Hyperion have good votes, though I agree only for a little bit with Hyperion's reasoning.

VOTE: KX
Hamlet, what are your thoughts on the KX/TNE/KidA exchange?

Still waiting on mine other head to answer KX's question, but I'm sure as hell not leaving an RVS vote on a growing wagon.

UNVOTE:

._.
Seriously? You have to wait for your head to give us some input?

[PimHel]

I have seen scum say "well why aren't you scrutinizing me?" as an attempt to gain town cred. In fact I think I have done it before myself...
Also, prod votes on page 2 are a no-no. Its a way to act like your busy.
KX, have you ever been scum before? and can I get some links to scum games if you have?

True, especially gutsy scum, but in general it's a sign of town.

I don't even have an idea which smiley could represent my facial expression right now... It probably doesn't even exist yet...

@Zach
What do you think about the convo between KX and theNE?

@Hamlet
See post #105. There shouldn't be a reason to discuss first with your other head before posting your opinion.

[PimHel]

I'm really not satisfied with TNE's answer as to why Kid A got singled out and not KX when KX was the first to mention killing the scum's ability to capitalise on the anon vote, but the speed at which his wagon is building gives me pause. I'm going to have to think over the TNE case before deciding on whether or not to cast a non-RVS vote.

It's 2 votes. There's barely speed involved...

I have no issue with KX calling out TNE for FOSing KidA but not him, the omission is something worth asking about. Ultimately KX seems to have come to the same conclusion I have about TNE: weak player, but townie. Had I been in the game at that point, my posts would have progressed along the same lines as KX I think.

If you disagree with me on KX, then shouldn't you be all over me and KidA?

[PimHel]

It's 2 votes. There's barely speed involved...

It was three with mine, which is L-2. You, me, and Kid A.

I don't like seeing L-2 including an RVS vote--especially mine--when RVS is over. Is that weird?

Meh, it's clear. Though L-2 is good (A)

Vote: KX

[PimHel]

I want to, but apparently nothing interested happened at all Where are KX and theNE >.<?
And the players that barely said anything at all; CE and temp.

[PimHel]

TNE- whether it's OMGUS or counter-OMGUS, it's still bad, and you should feel bad.
Furthermore, there will be no signing of posts. We both dislike the idea.

Can we post more relevant stuff now?

If you want to play as one person, play as one person. No "My other head said that about KidA, lets wait for him to explain it". Be prepared to back each other up, or clarify who's posting what.

Vote:Hamlet

I think Head A couldn't defend Head B's post on KidA because the reasoning was scummy even to A.

1. This is just bad ._.
2. You ignored my question.

Nice job ._.

[PimHel]

No ._.
I'm in favor of them signing their posts, but I don't think they are scummy.

[PimHel]

I know it's not for the reason I just mentioned, but I don't see them as scummy. Your reason I can see (the vibes). Zack's reason is Bull in my opinion.

[PimHel]

I know it's not for the reason I just mentioned, but I don't see them as scummy. Your reason I can see (the vibes). Zack's reason is Bull in my opinion.

[PimHel]

I'm going to have dinner now...
In the meantime:
Zach should answer my question.
KX should reappear.

Mod

should poke/prod/whatever CE and temp.

If that all happens, then I'll have a good night tonight

[PimHel]

^^ So, nothing useful and trying to look helpful. More votes, plz.

[PimHel]

^^ So, nothing useful and trying to look helpful. More votes, plz.

Oh and what's the case on KX? I think I missed that part.

The only thing he did, was the fence-sitting on you. All other stuff is just trying to look helpful. He's just skating by.

If you disagree with me on KX, then shouldn't you be all over me and KidA?

I was questioning KidA at this time. And I disagree with your KX read. Doesn't make you look scummy though.

._.
You said, that mafia loves to take advantage of theNE's FOS on Kid A. You never questioned anyone about it. So:
If you disagree with me on KX, then shouldn't you be all over me and KidA?

[PimHel]

P.S. Look at KX's vote.

[PimHel]

Words of wisdom ^^

[PimHel]

@Zach
But if I'm correct, you find Kid A suspicious for different reasons, right?
The prod vote is interesting. See below.

@KX
My vote is serious.
As mentioned before, you're skating by. The only one you have seriously questioned is theNE. And as we've talked about, it was a big case of fence-sitting. You're now quetioning Hamlet, but the questions don't even make sense. Many other stuff is trying to appear pro-town.
The prod votes is showing to me that you just don't care. You didn't even notice that your prod-vote was replaced. And furthermore, you can question them. But you haven't done so. It's again a case of ' trying to appear' .
Last post with content is very strange. You say you have 4 players who lean scum, but there is only one of them that you'[ve mentioned before. Of the remaining 3, only CE has a logical explanation why she's been mentioned now and not earlier.
P.S. Why no vote?

[PimHel]

@KX
But that's an increasing problem >.< If multiple players think the way you do, of course it will stagnate. Nobody will do a thing >.< And those who want to post, can't because there's nothing going on. The only way to make it more interesting is to post.

[PimHel]

@KX
Why wouldn't a vote against CE do much?
In my opinion, you've questioned theNE and Hamlet. With this, I mean asking questions that shows you're ' suspicious' of them. I didn't see this behaviour of yours with anyone else.

@Ki A
Why are you now agreeing with Zack and theNE and joining them with a vote, while it's been a time ago that they've spoken about their suspicion of Hamlet?
I'm not liking the fence-sitting:
'I think I'm going to go for Hamlet because his/their play is all over the place but on the other hand that is to be expected of two people doing hydra for the first time'

[PimHel]

@Kid A
The vote on Hamlet doesn't mean that there is no fence-sitting. It's all about your reason: 'I think [this], but I could see [that]'
If you're scum, it gives you an easy escape if the wagon gets scrutinised.
Could you give more information on your meta argument against Hamlet?

@KX
1. CE has posted, whereas Alex never did. It's more likely for CE to see a vote, than Alex.
2. Based on Post 179, for what purpose did you vote Alex?
3. It's rather easy to ask questions when a players hasn't given much reads. Like:

Hamlet

- Who do you think is the scummiest player?
- What's your impression on the player I'm voting (In my case, KX)
(-What's going on between the heads?)

@Mothrax
Yay~
I'm looking into Kid A and Hamlet now to see if my initial reads of them are correct (Town).
But after that, we should discuss some things. Because theNE looks better than KX to me.

[PimHel]

Seriously ._.

Hamlet

- What's going on between the heads?

Kid A

- more information on your meta argument?

Regarding voting:
I prefer KX and Zach over theNE and will only change to him if a KX or Zach lynch isn't going to happen.
I was planning to use my anon vote against CE.

[PimHel]

Unvote; Vote Zach

[PimHel]

I'm not voting CE. Let scum sweat about her possible softclaim. And during the night, she should be able to catch up, so that we can look more into her tomorrow.

@Mothrax
-Flying under the radar. In my eyes, he only attacked Hamlet and theNE, other posts are just trying to appear to be helpful.
-The attack of theNE has some fence-sitting in it. After all the questioning, he backs down with the 'probaby village idiot' - argument. Easy way to drop, easy way to get back up. Great for looking at what other players will do.
-Furthermore, the prod vote. 1. I'm used that players who actually care if their prod vote works or not, look more into that player. For example, ask questions or remember if that player is still present in the game. 2. He doesn't prod vote CE which should have a better chance at working, which leads to my conclusion that he got scared due to the 'attack' of his first prod vote.

@KX
What sarcasm :S?
I wanted to hear your reason for voting alex. That's all, (Basically. After I've got that answer, a different question will follow)

[PimHel]

Also,

Vote: Alexcellent

Care to join the discussion, even if, as it stands, there isn't much?

Because the explanation in #179 doesn't make sens to me due to the above quote.
So voting a player who probably never read the game helps, but voting a player who has been stating a few times to read the game doesn't help? To me, it would be more logical to switch those statements. So I find it very odd.

If CE is a powerrole, the scum has to think to target CE or not. Both are positive for us.
But if she survives to D2, she should have grasped the opportunity to read up and that means that she can be active during D2. Which gives us the possibility to get a good read on her.
That's why I don't want to lynch her.

[PimHel]

Also, @All, thoughts on policy lynching TNE since all current options seems to be shaky at best and disputed, and TNE is undoubtedly a poor contributor who seems incapable of helping, is difficult to obtain information from, and the loss of whom shouldn't be missed?

I want to address this vote seperately. Mainly due to the 'all current options seem to be shaky at best and disputed'. You said to mothrax that nothing's been decided yet. Yet, you opt this, while being uspicious of at least theNE and CE.
This doesn't add up to me and is very scummy.

[PimHel]

@KX
Post #246 just screams that you agree with me and that it would make more sense to vote CE. 1. You admit that CE has read the game, so it's likelier for her to see the vote. 2. You admit she's scummy.
As for the WIFOM, if CE is town, it's scum who has to deal with it. Just think of some powerroles. What could happen if CE is powerrole X, Y, Z, etc. and survives the night? They have to think then if the worst possible outcome is the risk to take or kill her and get that risk out.

@Hamlet
So, apparently, you are mostly in sync now. Where are the reads and your thoughts on the latest discussions?

[PimHel]

Disagreeing with Zach. Claiming is good.
Hamlet is looking worse. We're close to deadline and he's only posting reads.

@KX
1. You said that all current options are shaky at best and disputed, while being suspicious of theNE and CE
2. You told Mothrax that nothing's been decided yet.
3. You opted a policy lynch on theNE.

Due to all this, I get the feeling you want to lynch theNE no matter what and even try to get some votes on him in an easy way by calling him a village idiot.

As what I said about CE, it's almost night. CE has then a few days to catch up. So it gives us the possibility of getting a read on CE.

P.S. It's L-2. Hyperion was already voting Zach. See the vote count.

[PimHel]

Vote: Zach

Anon-vote discussion time.
I voted KX. You were suspicious and I thought your claim was fake.

Who did you guys vote and why?

[PimHel]

I saw the other points made against hamlet and went with pther people's guts.

Which points did you agree with and why?

I'm waiting on Hyperion to state his anon-vote before I comment on it. However, I'm not planning on voting theNE.

[PimHel]

@Zach
Why do you keep bringing up that Hamlet's partner 'knows' he selfvoted? You quoted that scum can't daytalk.

@KX
1. When mentioning why you investigated Mothrax, you mentioned that he lead the attack against Zach, who didn't look like scum. Yet, yesterday you mentioned that he was scummy and a good lynch. What's up with that?
2. I don't like how you're trying to 'lead'. You want to end this day quickly and you are mentioning that the KX anon voters are the group as outlined scum.
3. My gut is going off on your posts today. 'the chances are slim that 7/9 votes were on scum', 'cop is a basic role and with no counterclaim, it should be clear that I'm cop', etc.

@Mothrax
What do you think of KX's copclaim?

Of the players besides KX and Zach, I like Hyperion the least.

[PimHel]

@KX
Stop leading. Mafia is not a math formula, nothing is certain. You may think that scum would vote you, I disagree. If players showed suspicion of Hamlet during D1, it would be stupid of them not to vote Hamlet as they could be caught on the lie.
Zach isn't cleared by his vote at all. If anyone would have bussed Hamlet, it would be him. Barely attacking Hamlet, while being his main suspect. It was even worse s he rather attacked theNE for voting Hamlet at one point. And now, the tone is way different. He's actively leading the town.
Also, Hamlet not posting anything during the battle between KX and Zach (whom to lynch) about whom he prefers makes sense with Zach as buddy.

My anon vote is for him.

P.S. I'm not willing to lynch KX after thinking things over.

[PimHel]

Let's take Zach as example. Zach mentioned being suspicious of Hamlet and null on you, KX. It would be very suspicious of him to vote you during the anon vote, instead of Hamlet. Let's say he did and everything else had the same outcome. Then it would have looked like this:
KX lynched with four votes, 3 votes on Hamlet, 1 vote on TNE and one vote on CE, who was killed. How will Zach justify his anon vote? So in order to avoid getting trapped in this lie, it's easier to stay true with what you'vce stated.

If Zach is posting more for not being a lynch target anymore, then it's bad as well.

[PimHel]

V/LA till probaly tomorrow night

[PimHel]

You didn't attack hard. After many posts that didn't go about Hamlet, you brought up your 'case' which was about posts from a few pages ago. Before that, you chose to attack theNE for his reasons for voting Hamlet. Looking back, you mentioned that scum love taking advantage of a FoS like theNE at the start of the game. You attacked no player who questioned the FoS. But you attacked Hamlet for going against Kid A, which could have been due to him questioning the FoS.

Lucky for you, I can't discuss one of those games yet as it's ongoing. Because it shows a whole different Zach.

[PimHel]

Mod

, could you prod Kid A?

[PimHel]

Ongoing game.

No, you attacked his defense, not his attack.
And to me, that's strange. You were barely pushing the lynch on Hamlet and then even switch your attention to somebody who was also suspicious of him.

[PimHel]

I thought about KX. If KX and Hamlet were the scumteam, then KX claiming would have been the biggest gamble ever. Players had shown intentions of lynching Hamlet and there could be a cop in the game. Then they could have lost D3. Which is why I dropped the attack against KX.

Mothrax, what do you think of Hyperion?
And Kid A should come back...

[PimHel]

@Mothrax
I also had Hyperion as town a read early on. But his end of day was bad. He didn't respond to anything, only mentioning that more players should vote KX or that he can compramise on Zach.
And now that Hamlet flipped scum, I like theNE a lot more than Hyperion/AA.

@Kid A
What do you think about Hyperion/AA and Zach?

[PimHel]

And now that Hamlet flipped scum, I like theNE a lot more than Hyperion/AA.

I think I missed why Hamlet flipping scum made me better?

Because of your attack against him and the discussions that followed afterwards, aka you being attacked for your read, but sticking with it.

@Kid A
Could you explain your stance on me, mothrax and theNE?

Also, I thought the deadline was changed to 30-04. Is that less than 16 hours away :S?

[PimHel]

Oh, no. I now see where the confusion is coming from >.< As you can see from that post is that I'm talking about scummy hyprion. So when I say that I like you, is that I see you more likely as town than hyperion.

[PimHel]

Why and who's your anon vote?
Also, didn't you just hammer :S?

[PimHel]

and now the other questions

[PimHel]

Anomynous The votes for the second lynch candidate

[PimHel]

Depends. But both questions are useful so that we know what your reads are and why.

[PimHel]

Did I say two days? I meant two hours.

KX, Town 50/50 Cop, was killed Night 2.

5 alive, 3 to lynch for Day 3. Deadline is 5/14 at 8PM. The slight deadline shortening is due to a mod V/LA for 5/16 and 5/17, and I want to allow time to start the Night.

Big mod error.

Vote AA9

And why does it seem strange to you, Kid A?

[PimHel]

Also, I voted AA9, obv.

So AA9, your reads?

[PimHel]

Did I say two days? I meant two hours.

KX, Town 50/50 Cop, was killed Night 2.

5 alive, 3 to lynch for Day 3. Deadline is 5/14 at 8PM. The slight deadline shortening is due to a mod V/LA for 5/16 and 5/17, and I want to allow time to start the Night.

Big mod

error

mistake.

Vote AA9

And why does it seem strange to you, Kid A?

Better word.

[PimHel]

Did AA9 again ignore to answer questions ._.?

[PimHel]

Well, yeah. I'm still hoping to see some reads from AA9. And Kid A said yesterday something about looking for something to pressure you, me and TheNE with. So I was hoping to see that as well.

[PimHel]

I've asked for reasons why you voted Zach and I've asked what your reads are. I'm still waiting on those.

[PimHel]

Bump for AA9 to see.

[PimHel]

There's an intent to hammer and you're calling me impatient?
I'm giving you a chance here. You said D2 that you were caught up and you have yet to say anything that gives us an idea about you.
I'm also waiting on Kid A, but you are more of a priority.

[PimHel]

Then give us something to talk about, because I have my reads already.
There have been questions asked of you. And I'm waiting on those.

[PimHel]

Finished catching up.. I have decided to go with Zach..
VOTE: zachattack

This post gives that the impression that there was more than just him having the highest votes. And you finally gave an answer to why in post #460.
Further more were the reads. So I agree with Kid A's questions.

[PimHel]

Mod, could you prod theNE?

@AA9
Important question which needs an answer: Why was Zach's case against KX scummy?
And yes, this is serious.

[PimHel]

I'm asking for a different reason. I want to know the exact reasons why his case against KX was scummy according to you, not a post number.
Was it because Zach didn't like how KX was worrying, was it because zach didn't like KX implying that two players probably faked, was it because KX was the cop, etc. etc.

[PimHel]

@Mothrax
Can you explain to me why you see AA9 as frustrated VI? I agree about the frustrated part, but I can see it coming from scum.

I'm actually liking theNE less. The activity from D3 is a problem to me and I'm getting the feeling that he's more interested in defending himself since D2.

[PimHel]

There aren't 2 scum left. The 50/50 mechanic doesn't work with 6 town and 3 scum.

Well, I'm seeing the scum-side due to her mentioning that we should talk about each other, but she's not doing it herself. She only brought up Kid A after a lot of posts. This screams to me that she wants the attention elsewhere. It's not genuine scumhunting.

[PimHel]

P.S. /off-topic
I read some of your posts in GD or GTKAS and my whole image of you has been destroyed, Mothrax. I thought you were male, but everything else was not expected XD

Deleted duplicate post. -D3f

[PimHel]

Pimhel and Mothrax,.
I am 100% town, which leaves one of you is scum. so don't rush. Lets really look into the game and see who is the last scum.

1. Why are you town?
2. Who's scum?
3. This

[PimHel]

You entered D2 - hammered before explaining any reads.
We had discussion about you D3 - With a lot of trouble, we got a forced read out of you.
It's now D4 - you are again posting that we should look at each other without giving any reads who you think is the scummiest.

No reaction to 3?

[PimHel]

Kid A was questioned about his reads. It was pointed out that theNE was lacking in activity.
Players asked you questions, but when you responded, they were really vague. So don't push that players were only talking about you. Yes, for the most part, it's true. But that's partly your own 'fault'

Are you saying that I wasn't giving any reads? Because if so, you may tell me which player I didn't give a read about.

Read the game and post your reads. Then we'll discuss this further.

[PimHel]

^ Give me reads on Mothrax?

Town. The only thing is that he voted Hamlet when he barely mentioned him, but due to KX claim at the end of D1, I can see why Moth-town would do that.

@Moth
Well, we should vote each other. So it's up to AA9 whom will be the second lynch target. Which is another reason why AA9 needs to post some reads.

[PimHel]

V/LA till monday

I might be able to post tomorrow morning and perhaps sometimes when I'm away, but I can't promise anything.

[PimHel]

Pimhel, there is no way in the earth mothrax could be scum?
you know that you could say that as town and also scum... right?

I never use definite words, only when mod has it confirmed aka masons, received cop info or flips.
However, Mothrax has done nothing that caught my interest. If you believe otherwise, then show it.

@AA9
I've been away for 4 days and you still haven't posted any reads?

[PimHel]

I'm not blind. However, you mentioned many times that we should look at eachother, but then you use one post from Mothrax as 'your read'.
It doesn't work that way

[PimHel]

Vote AA9

I'm done trying.

[PimHel]

I'm not sorry. Mothrax deserved the win after all of this. Congrats.

Also, this is something I wanted to ask actually during the game:
AA9, how many games are you playing right now?

[PimHel]

That ^^
So what happened the first anon round?

@AA9
I was obv-town the night when KX was killed.
And I don't care about being wrong. You had so many days to post your thoughts about the game, yet used posts which attacked you to vote players. So I'm assuming that you're in too many games and I want to hear if this assumption is correct.

[PimHel]

After looking at the scum QT, I really want to know what happened during the first anon round. Because it seems my thought about Mothrax was right ._.