Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[Remembrance]

Hello. We should get this out of the way now: VOTE: Wisdom We should figure each other out. I want to work with you this time.

@HumanDestroyer, sum up your play style.

@Bork: Hey How's it going?

[Remembrance]

Oh, yeah /confirm.

@Bacde, Not much yet. Are you scum Bacde?

@Destroyer, followed a few of your games and had difficulty figuring out if you were scum or town. In general, a basic guideline will help me figure you out.

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...VOTE: Bacde

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He's scum guys. Lynch him.

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OF course it's Lincolm.

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That wasn't hard to figure out.

For those of you who need a hydra guide:

Sora: Does not give a shit.
Lincolm: Concise and does not give a shit.
TNE: Is not Concise and gives enough shit for the both of them combined.

[Remembrance]

Because he/she is nervous. And only scum would fear that question. Town are happy to say they are town, but scum are not. Not even semi-serious yet. But it's a start.

[Remembrance]

Nope.

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But Bacde is definitely the type, IMO.

[Remembrance]

He said he's nervous and I believe him.

[Remembrance]

Nope, because he mid-walls and I wanted an easy guide to him.

[Remembrance]

I've met most of them! It's awesome!

[Remembrance]

...*Whoosh* Dodged where? I misinterpreted what you meant. You said, and I repeat "You know how to read everyone in the playlist" and I said, "I've met most of them and have a general feel for them" the ones I haven't met I've followed. Except a few such as:

I am innocent
Angelus

[Remembrance]

Wait, I didn't misinterpret what you meant, I don't even know how I dodged the question. Explain how I dodged the question.

[Remembrance]

Let me ask this differently then.
Out of 12 people, you picked a specific one, HD, and you asked him to explain his playstyle to you. Why specifically HD? Do you know everyone else's playstyles? Can you read everyone else?

Ongoing. Difficulty understanding him. In general, I know:

Nacho
Kuror0 (Played with twice)
TNE (Well, you know)
Sora's mafia play.
Limo (from a newbie game)
You (who is hawkish)
Bacde (who I've played with twice and peeked at his/her meta)
I've been talking to Bork and have a general feel for him as a person.
PirateMollie, I feel I understand. I think he has a very adamant playstyle/personality, but it has been a while, since I got here ( I read one of his games when I just joined).
Matis, was the first game I read here before I even joined, but I've completely forgotten him.

The last few, I don't know about. I'm not saying "OHOHO I can totally read them like a book" but I am saying, "I don't think I'm going to get confused when they post and not understand where they're coming from"

[Remembrance]

I meant Lincolm. And now i feel like I have to go meta them. I should probably do that when they get here.

In the mean time, I have questions for you!
1. Who do you know here? Can you explain them to me, since you have played....20 odd games and I have played... 4 (total) some odd games but followed quite a few games.
2. Are you town?

[Remembrance]

I'm aware, but that's what I meant!

@Buildmar
@Pirate mollie.

Are you not the RVS types?

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...Bork doesn't exist to me with that initial post. As far as I'm concerned he hasn't posted yet.

[Remembrance]

While useless! Let us compare:

Checking in.

-> /Confirm

Made a second post, which is the one that tripped the "Why not RVS?" Alarm.

jkuyhefgfte diffusion =\

...
Then we have Mollie who corrected me. And is therefore, reading the game.

[Remembrance]

Oh, I was thinking of the material phenomena of diffusion. You know, "Things move from a high concentration to a low one"

@Buldermar: I can't remember, if that was going to reveal if I were scum or not (I wish it did, so I could become confirmed town!) you'll have to find another way. It was simply, too long ago and I only read one game of yours.

Let me rephrase.

I've played with: Wisdom, Kuror0, Nacho (and read fully 2 games of his to get better at scum hunting), Bacde, TNE(in another game with him and following In game I was in with him), I've read one of Lincolm's games which I remember him winning as scum, with heavy lurking. I've been talking to Bork in the dead chat in a different game, and read games from most of the others. But some of them, so long ago I can't even remember where they are, just general feel. As for destroyer, he was simply one that I was currently following and had a tough time with understanding. But I haven't been following the others, so I only asked him, since I don't know if I'll have trouble with any of the others.

Bleh, boring post.

[Remembrance]

You asked?

[Remembrance]

And Buldemar asked to know which game/games I read.

[Remembrance]

#71: That's pretty impressive!
#72: There are two options: He is nervous or he is not nervous. Why would he/she lie about it? I get nervous sometimes. It doesn't seem like something you need to over think.

@Buldey read: cool, you seem to know each other! On the other hand. Explain why to the rest of us, if you don't mind.

[Remembrance]

Meta stuff are not boring, nor stupid. It was important because

Remembrance knows little about almost everyone

yet he selected a specific person to question regarding playstyle. Pretty sure I explained it already.

You asked me "you don't ask why my vote stays?" - I took that as if you're offering to explain why your vote stays so I asked you.

Woah, this is an exaggeration. I know a little. You know how GE was all like "I know his meta" and you were all like "you don't know me, no one does" and then like, he totally knew your read weakness?

[Remembrance]

* Good morning I mean.

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Null as hell.

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Changing read: Very slightly town.

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Because I was thinking the same thing, and I'm town. Your style is the straight man, and naturally, the only other person feels the need to laugh. If I get the feeling the interaction is comical, then would scum think the same thing? To me, they're probably just worried about slipping and they tend to be more serious when suspected (unless they're like you and it's a null tell).

[Remembrance]

Because I get my attention in you. Somehow you like to troll me around...

Even though it is funny.

..

[Remembrance]

Human destroyer, I think I answered all of those questions through my posts, but I will do it in a concise way:

1. I say followed, but I mean "Am following currently" however, I've been mod killed and now just am more careful about talking about ongoing games. You're the only one I'm currently following out of those I have read games of. And you are difficult to read to me.
2. No, not really. But I do try to look at their perspective to see if it makes sense to me. So there's a bit of empathy in my reading and interpretation.
3. It's not too late to RVS, when half the people haven't posted yet, Imo.
4. I'm being intentionally dense because I had nothing to work with. It's a start because, being dense and voting someone requires them to respond. This is not too different than what Wisdom does.
5. a. I said very, slight town read. If Wisdom wants my reads he will get it. And no, I'm not anyone's scum buddy because I'm town. I can have town buddies though! You correctly interpreted my question and I was talking about the town read. The reason I did not ask again is because I left. Rem needs sleep too you know.

[Remembrance]

VOTE: SE Asians

Semi-Serious vote.

That was buddying.

[Remembrance]

I did explain my slight-town read on SE-Asians.

Basically, when he pressures you and is serious, you can't help but laugh. Lincolm said he felt it was funny when he pressures people (laughter is a danger response, to show you're not worried about a bad thing happening to you), I'm town, and I felt it was humorous too, but scum tend to be more serious when accused.

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Nope, I was stuck on the page you asked all those questions on, then I read the scum slip, which I'm wondering about.

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7

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You agree that you're scum, or that you know he likes to fake claim?

SE-Asians: Which one of your hydra heads, likes to not throw in the towel at l-2. Don't like this roll over stuff.

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-2): Human Destroyer, pirate mollie, I Am Innocent, Bacde, Remembrance
Bacde (L-6): Wisdom

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, buldermar, borkjerfkin, AngelusW, kuror0, SE-Asians

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

@Lincolm is this your first time in a diffusion game?

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@Someone who knows about diffusion: Explain why it is a bad idea to claim in this situation.

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UNVOTE: SE-Asians

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@Wisdom where are they told?

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VOTE: Wisdom I think he did actually scum slip.

I just checked the only scum QT I've ever joined and there was no set up information in the quick topic. Furthermore, when I got my role Pm, there was no information on the set up. He's probably just trying to look town.

[Remembrance]

I don't mean Lincolm, I don't think he scum slipped. I mean you scum slipped while defending him.

[Remembrance]

Excuse me?

Nope, I was stuck on the page you asked all those questions on, then I read the scum slip

, which I'm wondering about.

[Remembrance]

No.

[Remembrance]

But remember, I bullshit you last time on this too. But no, I've never played diffusion I do know the set up though((majiffy explained and I looked it up). But I don't remember hearing the scum know the exact number of docs and cops. Anywhere.

@Pedit: How the fuck am I opportunistic?

[Remembrance]

UNVOTE: Wisdom

Well, fuck. This then. *SIGH*

I voted him for buddying me, I explicitly mentioned that.

[Remembrance]

* Lincolm I mean.

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Hydra players:

1. SoraAdvent http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=19107
2: Thenewearth http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20830
3. Lincolm. http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20122

[Remembrance]

Stop being inaccurate guys. Just link directly to the instance of major flip flopping.

So let me guess, you don't consider him scum anymore? Cuz you know, you're voting him.

Oh right...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wisdom

Read down from 696, in which TNE flip flops and poE's himself as scum. Because he had 4 town reads in a 3 scum 3 town game.

[Remembrance]

Read update:

Wisdom: Prob town. (Yeah, I know I'm late to the party).

Going to have look through ALL OF THIS FUCKING SHIT. To find the reads from everyone else.

[Remembrance]

I kinda did, Buldermar. I only read one game and I forgot about it. Not current.

Pedit: That's a slight town read from Bork for town tell hunting.

Pedit2: I read your posts.

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Can't find it. I looked. It was a newbie game.

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VOTE: Mantis

Cool. I'll do that then.

[Remembrance]

Negative reinforcement. Which is controlling behavior. Do not interfere with my scum hunting again. Thanks.

[Remembrance]

#2 negative reinforcement. Don't control this game Wisdom. I've realized, I've been so busy reading I haven't been able to do my own thing since page 9. I do this kinda stuff.

[Remembrance]

Yes, he has been very busy lately. And is basically prod-dodging all of his games. He needs to count down on them.

[Remembrance]

*cut

@Buldermar, can you explain how you don't like how it looks?

[Remembrance]

Rem's reads:
I count two scum slips by Wisdom so far.
But so many town tells, it is like 2 rain drops in the ocean.
Mollie is looking town.
But Buldermar is far more town looking.
Bacde I was iffy on. But then he was like, "hey, I'm town" and I was like, lol ok.
Humadestroyer used a case with Slandaar's cases supporting it. That's awesome because Slandaar is awesome. Prob town. Also, the last time someone gut read me as scum they were town (and I was town). I'm town again, and once again I got gut read. Gotta let the gut simmer, make sure it isn't lying to you. Then walk around the person a few times. Smell their shoes, see what they're eating, smell the roses and then vote them.

Se-asian, I'm just completely sick of this whine fest. Everytime it has happened the person always flips town and every time I want to lynch myself for voting them. I still hate Lincolm forever.

Bork: EH, an asset to scum, he might be bro-scum.

I am innocent is a jerk. I'll be gone for a bit.

[Remembrance]

*Scum tells

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Oh yeah and it's late. So I'm not responsible for being wrong or responsible for anything.

*Ask Kuror0 for more details.

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Wisdom happened. It's not my fault this time I swear.

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Vote bork or Innocent. Maybe Mantis and you can sheep me. But she hasn't posted yet.

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I'm voting Mantis.

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*Sighs* Thank god. UNVOTE: Mantis

Sorry Nacho, need to think and collect thoughts. Tired and have work to do. Worried, I will make shit up when accusing Bacde because the only thing I got from him was the post where he said he was town, but I asked if he was scum.

[Remembrance]

Oh, and I think Buldermar is town.

Because he might be a sociopath if he isn't.

[Remembrance]

Lurking.
Watching.
Waiting.
Thinking.
Walking.
Down the road~
Talking
Pressing.
Misinterpreting.
Doing.
What scum do~
Feeling
Thinking
Knowing
When
He shouldn't

Good night.

[Remembrance]

Mantis: Because he said she might not have found the thread. I just voted Mantis because I like to park my vote and question people one at a time and look for comments that are actually line indicative. Hence the Buldermar question when he asked. Looking to see if he was painting with a scum brush or just scum-hunting.

@Bacde
She said she was town, but I asked if she was scum.
The post she made that on, felt specifically designed to make me unvote her, I almost did, but then you voted her and I got all wifomy. but I'm in "Watch mode"
Bacde has been in the lobby too much.
I have nothing serious on Bacde at this time.
Hence, not voting her.

Leave me alone~

[Remembrance]

I'm town this game. I don't say this as scum.

It's funny really.

[Remembrance]

Nacho likes the win by the way.

Town nacho.

[Remembrance]

I promised to stop you if you said something incorrect:

Mollie Read: Agree, even if she isn't, I like her stories. So I won't lynch her day one(unless there's a scum slip). I'm anti-town but what ever.

Lincolm:Agree. Meta'd him.

Bork: Not so sure, slight disagreement here. I don't really want to elaborate, I will just continue with: "Bro-scum"

Don't disagree with Bacde, back of my head. But every time, they eventually become my gut scum read. Last two times they did, and both flipped scum. But Bacde was only just starting down that road.

Already mentioned Buldermar, think about it~ *Gently nudges Buldermar to be more town so Nacho can see the town*

Back to work.

[Remembrance]

...Hmm, I'm good with it. I know what you're talking about btw.

[Remembrance]

^ My read changed. I looked through it again. I realized you might be a type of competent scum tentitively titled "bro-scum" and so, my read dropped from slight town to nullish again. My reads don't mean much to me(unless I'm extremely confident, in which case I'm no longer interested in giving reads on that person, I'll actually drop them out of the reads list as either very probably town or scum and just argue for their lynch all day of course, I'm aware of the need for compromises), they're just a way of me evaluating where a player stands and where I focus my attention. You can think of them more as my way of giving my notes to others on what I think.

Did that answer your question? I gotta go again. Glad you approve of Nacho's idea. It looks fun.

[Remembrance]

Basically, I'm negotiating Nacho's "town Borky" down to "Borky null" or Borknul for short.

[Remembrance]

Okay, I think you're competent. So I think you're able to look town when scum. So I expect more from you, before leaning town on you. You're a null read.
And I'm not going to look at the surface, because that would be a gross underestimation.

[Remembrance]

So agreements on what to do so far in regards to the plan:

Yes:
Mollie
Bork
Remem
Nacho
Bacde
Bulder
HD

Whine*
Wisdom

[Remembrance]

^Bad post.

[Remembrance]

*Checks role pm* Nope.

[Remembrance]

Going to say why I support the idea: Because it sounds like fun and we get to fuck with the scum. they'll have to use their brains. and I like the mix up. Those who support it: Why?
Those who don't support it:
Why?

[Remembrance]

Can you clarify what you mean by nothing? There are multiple ways to interpret that.

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If I were scum right now, I'd be running on auto-pilot.

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I'm a N1 PR.

[Remembrance]

Really? I hesitated quite a bit. I didn't want to fuck things up since they were counting on 2 permutations, not 3. But I can't change what I was born with.

[Remembrance]

That game ended? Yeah, that's why he's auto-towned in my books. He wants to win and hates losing. So, Nacho town.

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
Remembrance (L-6): Wisdom
Bacde (L-6): Nachomamma8

Not Voting: Remembrance, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, borkjerfkin, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

Well, not auto-towned. Just "probably" town. I get too much shit for saying it that way.

Anyway, like Borky, I too am having difficulty getting reads. Still, think he's competent. (keep proving it Borky, if you're town, you can totally do it with me just calling you competent and not being you in the town slot).

P-edit: you see what I mean?

[Remembrance]

Do you want my honest reads or fake reads? The first comes with a price.

[Remembrance]

Namely, you've gotta reread the thread. It's bargaining.

[Remembrance]

K:

Town:
Nacho, Because he introduced a plan that he just got killed by. Gave reads right off the bat, clearly okay with developing the plan.
Buldermar (because he has had a consistent pattern and methodology, with constant updates. He is thinking with each post he makes as he catches up, he is also trying to make the strategy of this plan work in our favor).

Very slightly SMIDGEN town:
SE-Asians: Whine posted the hell out of everyone, has had a bad few days from meta. I tend to think whiners are town. Weak reasons, but that's why it's a weak read. Also yeah, the original reason of having a slight sense of humor. We'll see though. Fake claims obviously not serious.
Null:
Borky, because he's competent, and just because he has read me as town does not mean Scum won't point out townie things town do. I've done it.
Kuror0, is consistent, but ultimately, I'll have to wait. He has a serious habit of looking very town when he gets going, so yeah, I'm waiting on more posts.
HD: Surprise, still having trouble. Still think Slandaar is awesome. He did miss something though, he never mentioned the fence sitting by Wisdom.
Mollie: Gives nick names to people and tells stories, two reasons to keep around. From what I know about psychology this way works to get people to trust you. Hence, it is also, self-serving. So you stay here. When you post more, I'll see about changing this read.
Wisdom, I pay more attention to scum tells than town tells, I learn from my mistakes. His motivations aren't where I feel they should be.
Mantis: isn't here. No read.
Angelus ins't here. No read.

Low scum points:
Bacde: Came in slightly strange compared to Bacde I know. Not as relaxed. Did over emphasize the extent to which HD's argument was valid. I didn't look through it, but Bacde immediately added momentum to it without thinking it through. Nacho interaction was awkward, not what I expected.
I am innocent: for opportunistic point, to me, he just posted a small reason that also added momentum to the wagon, added in new reasons for it, tried to be original.

@Kuror0 it's just a habit. I'm not interviewing people. I'm trying to change. Give it time. I'm still a newbie, and trying to get better.

[Remembrance]

You voted me after calling me town. So, it's a fence sitting vote.

[Remembrance]

Don't have the time to respond to this fully.

@HD Difficulty reading you, don't strawman me. I'll iso again, but am busy.

@Bacde, don't be a nitpicker, it's overall.

[Remembrance]

Hell yeah it makes the game fun. That's why I said I didn't want to lynch you.

EH, I think Wisdom has not brought results, hence all my goddamn null reads. We're on page 30, I should have more than this (whines). As for the fence sitting, okay. It was vote sitting, I vote park, it's cool. But my point is still there because, he unvoted me so fast. It was, imo, a vote park. Which is a fence sit. Since he did not ask any questions to go with the vote.

Need to go.

[Remembrance]

He can explain why he voted me if he wants though. That always makes it easier for me, so I don't have to give my own interpretation.

[Remembrance]

Noticed something.

Actually I take that back - that's exploitable.

TBH, this makes Buldermar town forever. Unless it was faked, but that would be scary.

So I'm moving Buldermar into, "probably town" a place, where in lylo, I would just vote the other guy without thinking too hard.I contributed.

Removing Buldermar from my reads list. But it's more tentative than the last time I did it.

Back to doing stuff.

[Remembrance]

Shh Wis.

I want to wait for him to finish.

[Remembrance]

Wait, I have no time for this.

Let me just say this shortly IaI. Not, good. Misinterpreted me and who I was talking to twice. I have an infatuation with calling myself town as town. Wis did not notice. But in the scum game. I never mentioned I was town.

Literally, skipped over my corrections.

[Remembrance]

Hi. Back short post. Still busy.

1. I am talking of an hypothetical instance. I have never made it to lylo.

[Remembrance]

I was just thinking that!

[Remembrance]

As town.

[Remembrance]

Nah, it's legit this time.

[Remembrance]

Angelus hasn't claimed. Waiting for IaI to finish. Waiting for Mantis to finish. Iso'd a few people. No serious changes in reads. Don't know why everyone else hasn't. Also, I need the practice and want to pressure Fate when he replaces in.

@Bork: Yeah, I know. I'll try to be more indirect.

[Remembrance]

Impossible. I checked my role pm.

[Remembrance]

I believe the Awkward entrance is the scum entrance.

[Remembrance]

Webinar at lunch today, will have to finish catching up tonight.

I believe through my skim through that the claim was for a N1 role or not? I do not have a N1 role.

My thoughts on SE prior to the finishing catch up:
1) He lied twice and then said his role was for N5. He is the best best for a lynch
2)

Not going to lie, I did not look at the setup til later. Thought it curious when I had a Night X .. role. So I could see town not knowing initially that scum knew there were 10 town divvied up by Y cops and 10 - Y doctors.

3) From #2, had SE Asians come out after the claim saying, oh, it was a joke, I hadn't realized the setup and didn't know my fake claims were ridiculous, I would have bought it based on my own lack of checking the setup. But he did not. He said it was to have him last longer in the game by not being a NK (VT, IC not til N6, etc)

So Wisdom, you can go screw yourself. I think the fact we have a player who has lied multiple times, refused to call players scummy for a long time, and whose "role" is conveniently not until the last night, this is the best play for a lynch D1. If I'm wrong, we get valuable information for the cops tonight. If I'm right, we get valuable information for the cops tonight + 1 dead EC. Can you really say a better D1 target than SE Asians that help the cops tonight, and hurt the town the least (claimed N5 power) if we are wrong?

Like I said, hope to be fully caught up by tonight. Wisdom, vote me now. You know nothing I say is going to change your mind, so stop playing the "thoughtful town role" by waiting for me to catchup...

Question: You think I'm scum right? But you just pointed this out. Are you ignoring evidence?

[Remembrance]

^ Nono, You have a point. The last time someone barged in with terrible reads, opinions, and misinterpretations they were town. I see where you're coming from. Similarly, I also pointed out I think it's the awkward guy that comes in that is scum. IaI is not awkward. Imo, Nacho had the right idea by downgrading him to scummy from scum.

[Remembrance]

Response to the two questions.
1. I am stating that revealing who is town or siding with town is something that scum do to demonstrate they're contributing to discussion. These arguments for why a player are town has elevated Borky into town territory, but notice where I sit. Apparently, some think I am scum, even though Borky has pointed out the town things I do. He's not actively contributing outside of making himself look town and asking people what they think of him.
2. Sure, I too was confused on the set up and demonstrated this by voting Wisdom. Yet, you ignored this and "didn't buy it," while pointing out your town perspective, yet refusing to think other town would share this perspective and thinking I am scum. But I don't mind, facts don't change just because people want them to: I'm town this game.

Pedit: Roger Ebert died.

[Remembrance]

VOTE: Fate
That was hard.

1. What do you think of your predecessor's play, don't iso him, just give your general impression.

[Remembrance]

I'll be frank. I think Se-Asian's is mislynch bait. Everyone is okay with voting him and I am tempted to as well. But that means scum are okay with his lynch too. EVERYONE is okay with Se. Ergo, scum are okay with his lynch. Scum do not play that way because it's intentionally suspicious, the arguing about and wanting to have the Doc's claim was not something scum would do because it's idiotic and suspicious to do so. Yes, I am going for the "too incompetent to be scum" argument. Why vote Buldermar? Why discuss it amongst the hydras if he wasn't town. Ultimately, he will probably be lynched anyway, I will follow tomorrow if he flips scum. But them's the breaks of having an opinion.

[Remembrance]

Hi Fate, please answer my question.

1. What do you think of your predecessor's play, don't iso him, just give your general impression.

[Remembrance]

Sure,

why'd you sheep Nacho.

[Remembrance]

Please point out the particular place in which he cracked.

[Remembrance]

Because he gave up and it pisses me off. That is the only reason I am tempted to.

[Remembrance]

Counter points:

Not just you, anyone who might be townreading Nacho.
Just a feeling.

Posted the most, momentum always turns against them eventually.

[Remembrance]

It's true for me

[Remembrance]

Because he gave up and it pisses me off. That is the only reason I am tempted to.

I would never vote a town read of mine who gave up.

I would push them to replace out.

Maybe my blinders are too tight, but I could see scum Remembrance getting ticked off at Scum Asians for giving up...

Notice I am not voting him. and I have infact, advocated for him. I don't vote town reads.

@Bork, why do you have a town read on fate.

[Remembrance]

@ Wis, @Nacho.

Fate + Bork + ?

Thoughts?

[Remembrance]

Okay, I will think on it.

My Lord, Prod Se-Asians at your leisure

[Remembrance]

N1 PR here too as well.

in your next post, please say if you're NOT an N1 PR as well to speed up the process

Objection. Can we kill his scum buddies instead?

@Se-Asians. I need to do an interview process for you I think. I'll just try to be on when you're on.

Good night folks.

[Remembrance]

1. I don't know about you IaI, I defend my town reads and try to show they are town to everyone else. While many try to prove a player is scum so that everyone votes them, I tend to do the opposite, I make cases for why a player is town.

2. I don't know what you mean by cross reads, I will assume you mean, you want me to restate my opinion and reads on SE asians and Bork. Bork is null, because I think he is very competent and helpful as scum. I am still looking for that factor that makes me lean a particular way, a lot of his posts bleed townieness, like #1061, but frankly, too many of his posts bleed townieness and it makes me uncomfortable with giving him a town read.

3. Se-Asians, I think is mislynch bait and I want to interview him when he gets on to demonstrate he is probably town. I have already taken a stance on this, but I will see what comes of it.

[Remembrance]

@HD, I will give you something to do. Ask Bork why he has a town read on Fate. Magic! You can now provide information for everyone. I'm still town by the way, I checked my role pm again just to make sure.

[Remembrance]

I did, he missed it. So I'm giving you something to do.

[Remembrance]

Oh, it's because from my POV, you're probably 0/3 (at best 2/3).

[Remembrance]

Because you're objectively wrong. So I'd rather you continue to scum/town hunt until we all have 3/3 reads. In general, the Bork read of fate was a bit fast. While it may have carried over from Bacde, who I think, Bork did mention was town. There has been 0 indications of town from Fate. You seem to ask good questions, and I'd rather you continue to do so instead of stop dead in the water and let things mush. Provide pressure anyway, because, you acknowledge you can be wrong. Does this answer your question?

I'm waiting for Se-asians to get on to question him.

[Remembrance]

You've already explained to me your meta and tunneling playstyle. I am actually reading your posts and understand your inherent stubborness when it comes to reads. Bork not so.

[Remembrance]

I asked if it answered your question, therefore it is not a dodge.

@Because, It provides information for the rest of us. You do not have 7 votes, and need to show or make those you have an opinion on show, what you're saying is right. You sit there, and say you see patterns and connections, but from my POV, your pattern is objectively false, so to put it bluntly, "try again" and "help us out if you're town."

[Remembrance]

I'm wrong all the time, part of the game.

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-4): buldermar, borkjerfkin, Fate
Fate (L-4): mantisdreamz, Remembrance, SE-Asians

Not Voting: AngelusW, Wisdom, Nachomamma8

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

Can you summarize and neatly lay out your case against me please? I can go through your posts again, but then I will have to summarize what I understand your argument to be and ask you if it is the correct one. It would be faster for you to do it clearly, so I can respond to it clearly and efficiently.

[Remembrance]

IAI, remem, bulder,

fate

= town.

kuror I'll sheep that read and call town too.

nacho leans town

. HD slightly leans town and I can't quantify why.

mantis is null as of yet. mollie I go back and forth on, and unfortunately I do this every game with her -- her 180 on me was so fast I don't know that I've yet been able to process it fully. angelus null.

I want to lynch se-asians eventually I think.

Let me add to the question, which was originally, "why do you read Fate as town" and add: why are you sheeping Nacho's town read of Kuror while leaning town on Nacho, without having Nacho as more towny than Kuror?

Or am I misunderstanding the second part? I'm pretty much starved on scum reads. Hopefully I will be able to get something juicy from SE.

[Remembrance]

Objective: Of or relating to a material object, actual existence or reality. Our shared reality states: Remembrance is town. If I am Nked or lynched, I will flip town. If you summarize the case, against me I can point to things that don't make sense for me to do as scum, such as protecting a partner out in the open, instead of redirecting people's attention.

[Remembrance]

It's a personality thing. I'm wrong to be saying this: Mafia is about assigned roles, playing that role, and convincing others you are that rule without empirical evidence. I'm the only one with the empirical evidence. Hopefully I can do better at being town so I don't have to worry about it.

[Remembrance]

^ Wanted to question you. Need you to be on at the same time to do so since the questions are time sensitive.

[Remembrance]

Well, okay.

What do you think of Mantisdreams? At this point, I see most people as town. She is lurking a bit, like Mollie warned, but Mollie won't lynch Mantis. Because she refuses to invest in earmuffs and mittens for the cold outside world.

[Remembrance]

Additional question, when you're done answering that one. I asked a fairly difficult question to Bork, about his reads on Kuror, Bacde, and Nacho. He responded in two minutes, it takes me about 4 to make up stuff as scum. Does this affect your position on Bork in anyway?

[Remembrance]

Fair. I've never really run into scum that don't delay or have difficulty responding when tied into knots. But we'll see. Plenty of cop investigations and the like, will slowly confirm people.

@Pedit: k.

[Remembrance]

Oh wow, unexpected! Hey Rach! We are trying to break the record on number of posts per game. Don't mind us.

[Remembrance]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25952

It was a good game.

[Remembrance]

I limited it to him using a case by Slandaar to support a case as to why that particular facet of play (caring about how you are perceived) is a scum tell. HD is quite different to Slandaar, they both tend to latch onto a player, but the similarities end there. Slandaar is much better at pushing for people's lynchs, more mercurial, etcetera. I'd be dead by now if Slandaar was on me, probably. The logic is poor(on my part), but in general, it's a responsible use of a scum tell to get someone lynched, so it makes me lean very slight town. That said, I still disagree with Asian being scum, but, I still want to question him. I keep missing him though.

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-5): borkjerfkin, Fate
Fate (L-4): mantisdreamz, Remembrance, SE-Asians

Not Voting: RachMarie, Wisdom, Nachomamma8, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

Breaking News

This just in, a local bowling venue turned to tragedy yesterday when a man was inexplicably strangled to death in the bathroom. No one knows who the perpetrator was, but one of the stalls had the words: "FASHIONABLY LATE" engraved into it. No one mourned the man who died, as he came late even to his own funeral.

Next up, the weather.

[Remembrance]

I noticed it, but it's such an obvious agenda playing. He can't possibly believe it is going to work. Aren't scum more subtle about this kinda stuff?

Pedit: Because he isn't doing anything. And mostly, because it doesn't seem he wants to do anything. I was waiting for Se-asians, but I give up, he is always on when I'm not.

tell!

[Remembrance]

No one can get a read on Fate, even you, if he just floats past today for no reason. RachMarie read the thread in 3 hours and provided 5 times the information he has.

[Remembrance]

I'll Iso him and think about it.

Requestiong Prod of IaI

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-4): borkjerfkin, Fate, Nachomamma8
Fate (L-4): mantisdreamz, Remembrance, SE-Asians

Not Voting: RachMarie, Wisdom, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

I noticed it, but it's such an obvious agenda playing. He can't possibly believe it is going to work. Aren't scum more subtle about this kinda stuff?

How could Wisdom go about discrediting me in a subtler way?

Because he isn't doing anything.

Isn't it a bit late to be voting someone for being lazy?

1. For example, like Mollie. She has super secret personal tells for town and scum you right? "he hasn't dropped that tell" leads to instant suspicion, if people buy into the ethos reputation that she has worked on building. She brings in her reputation, mentions other successes in other forums, where she always gets lynched day 1 for being such a threat to scum. If you buy it, this lends credence to the idea that you might be scum.
2. Never too late, it often brings them out of their laziness.
a. There are two aspects to this game type for town IMO. Night game and day game. We want to correctly lynch scum in the day, and investigate or protect the right people at night. If Fate continues playing as he has played, he is not contributing to the day game. Similarly, like you said, can investigate Wisdom at night, so why kill someone who might be actively contributing over someone who only has worth as a power role so far?

[Remembrance]

1. I don't know the result, but I think the question force Se-Asians to reveal alignment information. He might be scum, but I don't think he is. If it reveals he is town that is equally juicy as revealing he is scum.

[Remembrance]

I think it will demonstrate he is town, because I think he is town. It might reveal the opposite, in which case, that is equally good for town. The point being, I want to bring in some definitive results.

[Remembrance]

Why does everyone always say, "policy lynch" I want to pressure him. I've meta'd Fate, he usually brings more to the table.

[Remembrance]

How often does town you do that Nacho?

[Remembrance]

@#post1287.

[Remembrance]

^ Mollie already voted him.

I have completed my Iso of Wisdom. I remain unconvinced.

[Remembrance]

@IaI, so are you lurking or what?

[Remembrance]

Fate has demonstrated little motivation to do anything in this game. His meta demonstrates that he does better under pressure, but that does not appear to be the case. He has had plenty of time to go through everything and has not. He is coasting, by the very definition of the word.

Not much, but there you go. It's scummy, text book.

Next question in a sec.

[Remembrance]

I saw a person questioning literally everyone. With a townie confidence, that scum tend not to have. His posts are starting to segue up to how I would respond if being voted by Nacho as town, with 200+ posts behind me(of course, I'm an idiot to respond that way, but that is how I'd respond if I was voted by Nacho, though not quite so openly).

I only have Bulder as a super strong mega town read.. Fate, Unlike Angelus (who I only ever saw show up twice in the lobby) has proven he is able to post. So, there's a difference.

@Nacho and Wisdom, what do you think of IaI's recent post?

[Remembrance]

That's what I was thinking.

[Remembrance]

Sure, what would you like to chat about?

[Remembrance]

hah
funny, because i was just going to say to you: i don't think you'll ever be satisfied completely that someone is town, cause you always manage to find some sort of unintentional crack
guess you proved me wrong

^ I liked this post. But it took 4 minutes to write!

[Remembrance]

Remembrance you're slow : O

Sorry, a little busy.

Mantis was formulating something, in mid post and responded to this new information. A familiarity with Wisdom that demonstrates, that at the very least, they're probably not scum buddies. It helped a bit. There's kind of an ease of communication there, that isn't usually there when scum buddies chat. It gave information.

[Remembrance]

Have to leave, looks like the same thing happened on opposite tables. Thanks for the chat.

[Remembrance]

^ agree.

Back for another post.

Fate's logic:
1. I think Wisdom is scum. *vote sheeps Nacho*
2. I was going to make a case, but then I actually read his iso and think he is town. Because he reminds me of me when I get lynched as town.
3. LOL, Kuror0 and Wisdom are a scum team.
4. My wagon must have gained momentum because scum were panicking that Wisdom would be lynched.
5. Gets unvoted, by a player. *Says nothing*

@Mantis, the obligatory question: why unvote?

Back to doing stuff.

[Remembrance]

*2. I may have misinterpreted this one.

[Remembrance]

That's not a good reason, because Wisdom does this as either alignment. Furthermore his posts have been short, there are a lot of posts, but some players have 10 posts with as many words as he has used this whole game.

@Fate, seriously, why don't you care that Mantis unvoted you after stating that there is scum on your wagon. For terrible reasons, I might add.
You gave an explanation, but Mantis bought it no questions asked. This doesn't make any sense to me.

[Remembrance]

^ This does not answer the latter question.

[Remembrance]

MINE!

[Remembrance]

Ready Se-Asians?

[Remembrance]

Okay.

1. Summarize, or paraphrase 2 conversations you had with each of your hydra partners about a read you had on a player being scummy or townie.

[Remembrance]

Since they don't seem too involved in this game, older is okay it might even be better.

[Remembrance]

No I mean: What did they say about a particular player. Paraphrase means to reword it. What their opinions were on a certain player ectera. Whether they agreed or disagreed and tell us what they agreed or disagreed with.

[Remembrance]

Okay, now paraphrase what you said in the QT: give a back and forth parapharse of one discussion between you and Sora.

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-4): borkjerfkin, Fate, Nachomamma8
Fate (L-4): Remembrance, SE-Asians, Wisdom

Not Voting: RachMarie, buldermar, mantisdreamz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

Last question: Go into detail about one conversation you had about one read that you talked the most about.

[Remembrance]

You can't tell us the interesting thing you thought of in your QT?

@Everyone else thoughts on this information?

[Remembrance]

^ I expected clear answers and elaborations of your hydra discussions that would allow me to know if you were referencing(you did this earlier) those discussions as a lazy town tell as scum, or whether they were legitimate discussions by a town hydra.

[Remembrance]

Controlling for the language barrier, do you guys think these recent posts make him a town hydra or a scum hydra?

[Remembrance]

I meant that, it was a typo. All I meant is that there are much more subtle ways to create suspicions of a slot, and unintentionally or not, you aroused suspicion in the slot. I was giving an example, as requested by Nacho.

You've retracted your read but not your vote, Mollie. There may be a slight contradiction with line 2 with line 3 in your post, by voting him. But contradictions aren't really scum tells. Much to many a town's chagrin.

[Remembrance]

I'll go first, I don't like locking myself in, but it does not matter because I'll be locked regardless given the amount of time we have. At the very least, scum will have to push for :Not scum: as the day winds down. I do the opposite of what most do here, I state who I will not lynch.

I will not lynch:
Mollie, Nacho, Wisdom, Buldermar, Bork.

Other players, I may vote just because of the information it provides. I am in concurrence with Kuror's Ebwop, that now is not the time to hold back information as one of the viable lynches of the day(in regards to Se) and his responses was a little on the vague side, but I lean with Wisdom in that, it is very much enthusiasm on Se's part in regards to the interview that makes me still lean town on the slot, his partners are flaky. Sora and Tne Should have helped him out here, if he's really town or even as scum

[Remembrance]

1. Because she claimed Pr. I like her stories. And she seems natural enough.
2. I did not totally and still don't totally read Bork as town. But he has done enough and seems to be trying enough, that I don't want him to be lynched today. In other words, it's for utility rather than because of having a strong town read(like Bulder).

[Remembrance]

Didn't know it was illegal Nacho. Sorry, I assumed since it was a town tell and he was consistently referencing it, it was fair game. I was not looking for him to quote the lines, but rather, to summarize those conversations. My mistake.

[Remembrance]

Yeah.

@Wis: Why do you want to lynch Mollie? What has she done?
You said you would give your reads if asked(I think?), can you give them?

@IaI, take a position, give reads. I'm probably going to vote you today. Too much painting with a brush for my taste.

@HD: I tried to answer your question as best I could. I have been told I question dodge in literally all of my games. 2 times from scum, 3 times from town. I try, I can't do more.

@Se-Asians: Try to get your hydra buds on and respond to IaI's questions.

@Fate: Would you kindly participate in this discussion?

@Rach, done with reads yet? What do you want to share?

[Remembrance]

* Not all of my games. Just most of them. But it seems to be a thing.

[Remembrance]

@Mantis: I was not entirely kidding around. To me, he was not doing much after that short initial burst of questions and accusations at the beginning of the game. A metaphor, his tiny avatar man is sitting on a sled and saying "mush" repeatedly to a team of distracted dogs hunting for mice. Instead of hopping off the sled and dragging the dogs to where he wants them to go, he sits there and says "mush" over again and over again. "Mush, that guy is scummy," "Mush that guy is scummy""Mush, Why should I demonstrate or question people I think are town?" It's not conducive to the rest of us discovering if they are town or not, not to mention he doesn't actually know they are town or not, but he has already responded to that part. And I am past it. But he isn't.

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Nachomamma8 (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-5): Fate, Nachomamma8
Fate (L-4): Remembrance, SE-Asians, Wisdom
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz

Not Voting: RachMarie, buldermar, borkjerfkin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

^ L-2

My feet are getting cold.

UNVOTE: Remembrance

L-3.

If you survive to day 2, what will you do?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Wisdom (L-4): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie
Fate (L-2): Remembrance, SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

VOTE: IaI DUMB.

[Remembrance]

Day chat.

Majiffy: do scum have day chat?

[Remembrance]

Why are you ignoring everyone that isn't attacking you or who has answered your questions of which you do not respond to them and remain fixed on me being scum? All you're doing is skating by while accusing the same people over and over. While ignoring EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. DAY CHAT? YEAH OKAY BRO.

[Remembrance]

You're fake town telling all over the place. While fake tunneling. Enough. Either start hunting or I will not cry for your loss.

@Fate: Seriously, are you going to do better or what?

[Remembrance]

All players start with zero votes on them.

[Remembrance]

Stubborn since the beginning Wisdom. There's a difference. There was no gradual shift. It was just tunnel since the beginning. No shift. No new perspective. No new analysis except everything my scum reads do is scummy look at me paint them.

[Remembrance]

12 wins as town 6 losses. This is his only game.

[Remembrance]

So he's not reading the game. But has enough time to paint everything I do as scummy. This is his only game and he's competent enough to have a good record, but this is the best he can do. While stating that the scum has a day chat: Why? Because it is a lazy town tell he can drop, while continuing to tunnel and thereby coast. Responds only to suspicion, discredits those that have suspicion of him. No. Vote stays until, compromise lynch.

[Remembrance]

*Or someone scum slips: Since inevitably, a town dies when time limit comes up, most of the time anyway.

@Fates reads make sense given he is only reading what is currently going on around him. Look again Wisdom, Kuror0.

[Remembrance]

@Nacho, it's cool that you think I'm town for whatever. But what did you think of Se-Asian's response? He's not going to post his quick topic and I didn't want him to either, because I knew that was cheating, I just didn't know inquiring about it was bordering illegal. This is why I was searching for a paraphrase and summary, to make sure what was going on behind the shed was actual scum chatting, rather than just easy town cred.

@Wisdom, you just assumed, IaI isn't reading the game. Why not the person OPENLY ADMITTING to not reading the game?

[Remembrance]

@Kuror0: Mantis unvoted him for bad reasons: He decided it was scummy. Wisdom because he sheeped Nacho who he town read. Foot in the door effect. I don't know why he thinks you're scum, Kuror0, you asked, he didn't answer. But you posted around him.

@He's reading it and coming to all sorts of wrong conclusions. But this is assuming he town. I am assuming he is coasting tunneling scum who scum paints all day long, like most scum are won't to do, but leaving enough room to back off if need be. Towny confidence? Maybe. But maybe it's time he did something useful instead of making shit up to fit with his world view if he's town.

@IaI you should pay Mollie since you're going to lose that bet, if town.

[Remembrance]

So you DO want to policy lynch him Wisdom? I asked him if he will do better tomorrow, pending response.

[Remembrance]

I'm explaining his reads and why they make sense.

[Remembrance]

Fate thinks Nacho is town. And voted you because Nacho voted you, and also voted you because of his supporting evidence posts in which he said you looked like you were "cracking" additional to Nacho's vote on you.

[Remembrance]

Sometimes. I sheeped Nacho's Kuror0 read in my last game with him. Until I started looking myself and came up with evidence that supported that read of that player. It was a town read instead of a scum read though. I try to put in effort to fix reads when I notice that I'm being influenced by other town reads pointing out that someone is scummy to make sure of it though.

[Remembrance]

I feel gears turning. Would rather they turned to IaI than Wisdom.

Can you go through the thread and look for info Wis?

[Remembrance]

Vote him anyway.

[Remembrance]

@Wisdom wrong answer.

Please give everything you have. I need everything. I will make sure scum don't manipulate it. And I do not want Wisdom lynched. Do not care if reverse cheer leading.

[Remembrance]

COME ON. SCUM WISDOM IS REFUSING TO LYNCH IAI OR EVEN TRY TO MOVE IT THAT WAY EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT SAVE HIM. NOT SCUM WISDOM.

[Remembrance]

Okay. Whatever. Wisdom has like 300 fucking posts. I can make a fucking novel out of his play tomorrow and everyone can give their opinion on it. He can explain his whole play from beginning to end.

[Remembrance]

Record breaker!

SE-Asians (L-5): I Am Innocent, kuror0
Wisdom (L-3): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie, Human Destroyer
Fate (L-3): SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz
I Am Innocent (L-6): Remembrance

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Remembrance]

Agenda complete.

[Remembrance]

I don't see why you can't give your thoughts on everything Wisdom. You've probably been paying the most attention out of everyone.

What did you think of Buldermar and Bork exchange when they voted Fate?

[Remembrance]

....Is Kuror0 really town?

[Remembrance]

No he has been consistent in slowing reading you as scum. Throughout the game. Just checked.