Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[borkjerfkin]

jkuyhefgfte diffusion =\

[borkjerfkin]

oh cool i don't have to pretend to care today

VOTE: Se-asians

[borkjerfkin]

N5 <role that is not in the game>. Understood.

Good talk

[borkjerfkin]

you are right in that IaI looks like pondscum. so does borky. if you want to lynch borky I am all for it <----- pretty sure he is scum. would bet money on it.

this is like one of those times I wish I had a different stance on sig bets

[borkjerfkin]

Like if this were any mod but Majiffy I'd have replaced out of this bait and switch by now

[borkjerfkin]

Stance on Lincolm:

Lincolm's usually a pretty rational poster barring the language barrier.

This is not that.

Haven't read shit else.

Mollie will learn one way or another that I can be crotchety as town too.

[borkjerfkin]

that's nice

let's lynch this slot

[borkjerfkin]

i hate this setup and i don't want to play it

that is my deal

[borkjerfkin]

he didn't seem to care that possible scum lincolm could self hammer and shut down the conversation.

also lol

p-edit: i'm considering it.

[borkjerfkin]

Eh fine I'll play nice.

Let's start with 281. How is smart ol' borky doing something "stupid" scum indicative?

[borkjerfkin]

if you are scum, it was smart move, if you are town it was a very stupid one.

what

[borkjerfkin]

oh I'm kinda interested now

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

how does the game at large's perception (i.e. whether it is "smart" or "stupid") of <whatever my action was> change based on my alignment?

[borkjerfkin]

what does what I quoted in 287 mean? Things either make me look more town or more scum. Ergo, an action is either smart or stupid.

So explain to me how what I did was "smart, but only if I'm scum"

Because I don't really think you believe that.

[borkjerfkin]

Because he didn't know it will be Diffusion?

In that case he could just replace out.

yeah we're past this but thanks

[borkjerfkin]

Ok I need to stop the angle from which I'm pushing Mollie; her latest response indicates she doesn't understand the point I'm trying to make which makes that line of questioning worthless.

I think, in retrospect, she's trying to call my initial vote on Asians "stupid or scummy [and I don't think you're stupid]" so I have to come back to that, cause I don't think it was either of those.

It probably was a little dickish though. My entrance in general was. Sorry.

Anyway some people have town hardons for mollie right now -- why?; I can see some of the other common townreads (Wisdom, Bacde) as town but she's not pinging me either way as of yet.

Buld seems town to me from first glance once you get past the fact he's been catching up and has thus been out of sync thus far.

[borkjerfkin]

HD I dunno about either. Only experience with HD I was scum and just hard buddied him the whole game so he'd leave me alone.

[borkjerfkin]

Current opinion of SE-Asians: Asians is playing a profoundly anti-town game thus far. Wisdom's point on scum being attuned to the setup by virtue of knowing role combo beforehand as a counterpoint to a willy-nilly fakeclaim automatically coming from scum is a decent one.

[borkjerfkin]

This game is quickly becoming a meta-case nightmare; I'm seriously not reading any of these other games.

Like am I the only person that drastically changes my playstyle from game to game?

[borkjerfkin]

yeah you gonna just ignore me at this point? is that where we're at?

[borkjerfkin]

this is going to be an extremely aggravating game for me isn't it

also keep ignoring me that's nice.

I think, in retrospect, she's trying to call my initial vote on Asians "stupid or scummy [and I don't think you're stupid]" so I have to come back to that, cause I don't think it was either of those.

Let's start here because it's the crux of whatever the fuck is going through your head right now.

[borkjerfkin]

Was that really necessary?

[Majiffy]

ffs mollie

answer my question. it's not hard.

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, Remembrance, borkjerfkin, Wisdom, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[borkjerfkin]

if you are town then putting a player at L1 at that point in the game when there are a ton of players who have not even checked in then it was stupid.

I don't even remotely agree with this. If he's scum and he self hammers or whatever crap you claimed to be worried about then we just lynched fucking scum. I obviously didn't fucking hammer the guy.

Your last sentence looks like filler for a realization that your initial point was bad.

[borkjerfkin]

Fair enough.

[borkjerfkin]

Also, my feelings on Mollie as of now:

#449 reallyreallyreallyreally looks like conf-bias town.

Everything else re: me is obtuse and I don't like.

[Majiffy]

now it's not scumhunting? despite trying to get clarification directly from you?

that and his posts are not coming from a town oriented POV. the initial fos was to get him engaged his reaction to pressure is to flail and I am not seeing town flail yet. if he can...I don't know scumhunt or something but so far all he is doing is

trying to engage me with ridiculous questions that he doesn't even seem interested in the answers to

, ask everyone why they have me as town. he isn't scumhunting at all.

Are you fucking kidding me? All you keep doing is avoiding addressing what was wrong with my initial vote on asians. "Putting someone at L-1 early because if they're scum they might self hammer" (YOU fucking said this in #281) is CRAP. Otherwise you just keep changing your tune to call whatever I've come out with since as "not from a town POV".

What is the town response to the pressure you're putting on me?

@Remembrance: what about what you just did is scumhunting?

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
mantisdreamz (L-6): Remembrance
Remembrance (L-6): Wisdom

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, borkjerfkin, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[borkjerfkin]

#2 negative reinforcement. Don't control this game Wisdom. I've realized, I've been so busy reading I haven't been able to do my own thing since page 9. I do this kinda stuff.

I actually think I like this post.

[borkjerfkin]

stop acting like i'm inconveniencing you to make you back your shit up. If you have other crap to do then do it.

there were/still are a lot of players who have not checked in yet. I think town bork would have thought of this and scummy bork wouldn't have cared. yes I am fosing you for that. and no I am not changing my tune I am still finding you scummy.

Then we're at an impasse; I reject your premise and I don't have anything else to say about it.

[borkjerfkin]

IDEA:
day 1 cops, claim today
if doctor(s) exist, they will protect you

day 2 cops, claim tomorrow
if doctor(s) exist, they will protect you

that way
every day is a WIFOM struggle for scum
and every doc+cop combo we have is broken, so

The more I think about this the more I like it

although there's no guarantee of even close to even distribution right? Like hypothetically everyone could be N5?

[borkjerfkin]

I promised to stop you if you said something incorrect:

Mollie Read: Agree, even if she isn't, I like her stories. So I won't lynch her day one(unless there's a scum slip). I'm anti-town but what ever.

Lincolm:Agree. Meta'd him.

Bork: Not so sure, slight disagreement here. I don't really want to elaborate, I will just continue with: "Bro-scum"

Don't disagree with Bacde, back of my head. But every time, they eventually become my gut scum read. Last two times they did, and both flipped scum. But Bacde was only just starting down that road.

Already mentioned Buldermar, think about it~ *Gently nudges Buldermar to be more town so Nacho can see the town*

Back to work.

Weren't you reading me town? When did that change?

[borkjerfkin]

Did that answer your question? I gotta go again. Glad you approve of Nacho's idea. It looks fun.

To be frank, not at all.

[borkjerfkin]

I realized you might be a type of competent scum tentitively titled "bro-scum"

This is basically your only attempt to answer what I asked and it pretty much makes zero sense. The rest of what you posted was completely irrelevant.

[borkjerfkin]

So are you null on me or scum on me?

[borkjerfkin]

nevermind you answered that.

[borkjerfkin]

It's only been run, what, twice before?

[borkjerfkin]

borky I think I might be finally starting to see you as town!

What prompted the change? It's not clear to me.

[borkjerfkin]

Going to say why I support the idea: Because it sounds like fun and we get to fuck with the scum. they'll have to use their brains. and I like the mix up. Those who support it: Why?
Those who don't support it:
Why?

I support it because it protects our most important asset: early night cops. That's pretty much it.

[borkjerfkin]

I actually don't think that's a huge deal.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah the most important thing is to get our cops to get their investigations and live to tell the tale

[Majiffy]

Ok I'm getting to the point where I just want to sheep Nacho because we've talked this theory thing to death and my reads are not very developed.

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
Remembrance (L-6): Wisdom
Bacde (L-6): Nachomamma8

Not Voting: Remembrance, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, borkjerfkin, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah it's another layer of trying to get the numbers to work in our favor. Won't always work but will sometimes work.

[borkjerfkin]

Not N1 PR.

[borkjerfkin]

Pretty much willing to say Remembrance is town for being 3rd N1 guy up in here. Doesn't seem like something scum would do.

[borkjerfkin]

Doesn't that prove my point?

[borkjerfkin]

I've never seen a PbPA I liked

[borkjerfkin]

Wait, I have no time for this.

Let me just say this shortly IaI. Not, good. Misinterpreted me and who I was talking to twice. I have an infatuation with calling myself town as town. Wis did not notice. But in the scum game. I never mentioned I was town.

Literally, skipped over my corrections.

I think you're a bit too candid about your internal processes

[borkjerfkin]

Why did you unvote here?

Because Wisdom actually made a decent point about the fakeclaim and I wanted to look into Mollie some more.

[borkjerfkin]

thanks mollie

[Majiffy]

thanks all

Buldermar/Nacho/Mollie/Mantis:

early meta on IAI -- abrasive as fuck. I didn't get any of that in NY 161 -- do you guys agree? This is making me think town.

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
Bacde (L-6): Nachomamma8

Not Voting: Remembrance, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, borkjerfkin, buldermar, Wisdom

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah you were in it. You replaced JacobSavage and then I murderated you at night

[borkjerfkin]

Yes. Thoughts? This is a glaring personality change in my opinion.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah I'm pretty much talking last few pages.

[borkjerfkin]

I do not have a scum read on Bacde and I'm having trouble seeing that angle.

Still think IAI is town.

Meh

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho had the right idea by downgrading him to scummy from scum.

I think Nacho was saying he sees IAI as MORE scummy now.

[borkjerfkin]

I have a stronger townread on Nacho than Mantis right now; it's mainly for him coming in with that plan. I don't know what to think of Mantis, although I read her going after the inactive as frustration that she's townreading the entire game right now.

[borkjerfkin]

although the replace out was weird.

This is kinda true. I was considering replacing out too but it would've been immediately when the game started (but I didn't cause jiffy) -- but I agree, why wait so long to bail out if you don't like it?

[borkjerfkin]

Nah I get what he means -- he does not think that the claim should be used as part of a case on SE-Asians scum, but other than that he doesn't have a townread on him.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah my issue right now w/ Wisdom:

You're really really really defending SE-Asians (and I don't want to call it a chainsaw because I don't know SE-Asians' alignment and I don't really care for purposes of this post) while being like "no it's totes ok to lynch SE-Asians" BUT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS

Like if you think he's scum (you've outright said you don't think he's town) you should not be directly impeding his lynch like this at every turn

[borkjerfkin]

#972 is just the worst

VOTE: Wisdom

[borkjerfkin]

IAI, remem, bulder, fate = town.
kuror I'll sheep that read and call town too.
nacho leans town. HD slightly leans town and I can't quantify why.

mantis is null as of yet. mollie I go back and forth on, and unfortunately I do this every game with her -- her 180 on me was so fast I don't know that I've yet been able to process it fully. angelus null.

I want to lynch se-asians eventually I think.

[borkjerfkin]

Nacho might actually be scum, keep that in mind.

Why would I not keep that in mind

[borkjerfkin]

That just seems like a really weird thing to say.

Anyone might actually be scum, yeah?

[borkjerfkin]

...ok?

[borkjerfkin]

No one's outing themselves as a Doc. They're outing themselves as a PR.

[borkjerfkin]

So D2, what happens. Cops will say who they investigate, and by process of elimination that leaves who???? Docs maybe????

That's fine, I see your point, but I mean ANY plan we come up with works better if more of the cops are early than the docs. That's simply the way this setup goes.

[borkjerfkin]

More accurately it works better if lots of PRs collide on the same day. I think that's more true than what I initially said.

[borkjerfkin]

I can't get any fucking traction in this game

[borkjerfkin]

I dunno I'm kinda with wisdom here

[borkjerfkin]

borky there is something not right about nacho

I hate to admit this but he can probably run circles around me so even if you're right you're probably going to have to spell it out pretty detailed-like. Doesn't help that I've never played with scum Nacho before (or scum you for that matter)

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, Rememberance, Asians, I want cross reads of all of you. For Asians, I want those reads from all three of you.

that's nice

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah none of this shit from Remembrance is scum motivated. nor is it helpful, so I'm just kinda ignoring him.

[borkjerfkin]

...that said, you should be answering his questions if he asks them, unless it's so super important to keep these reasons of yours a secret, but why would that be even?

Can't be bothered

[borkjerfkin]

Remembrance can you summarize whatever you wanted to ask me

[borkjerfkin]

Bacde was town so fate is town. Fate's null by himself.

Doesn't matter what Nacho's alignment is, I have a feeling he'd make that post about Kuror as either one.

[borkjerfkin]

You're not going to convince anyone you're town by being so self aware that you can point out all the shit you'd do as scum and be like "here's me not doing that"

This is WIFOM 101 and it's not interesting.

[borkjerfkin]

I agree, and Remembrance is town for claiming he intends to do that.

I think he's town for other reasons. I think this is a personality thing.

[borkjerfkin]

Once again, WIFOM 101.

[borkjerfkin]

when did nacho become super scum? I've seen a "he feels off" from more than one person.

but I don't see anyone saying anything substantial concerning this game against him.

[borkjerfkin]

Hey Rach.

I am kinda off my shit this game. I think you're town so far though.

[borkjerfkin]

Remembrance is town.

SE-Asians I still lean scum on for pretty much universally anti-town play. Other than that I can't tell wtf he's (they're?) even saying and tend not to read his posts.

[borkjerfkin]

It's possible I should be reading SE-Asians as null. I want to policy lynch the slot eventually I guess.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really like the fact that mollie had her vote parked on bork and then on Nacho while intending to lynch neither of them. I think town-mollie usually makes her vote jump around in attempts to read people better - in this game it feels like she isn't really interested in doing so.

But it's true that almost nobody can have confident scumreads this game. I still don't know who to lynch either.

This is a thing that I've thought the whole game, and it goes hand in hand with her 180ing on me for what I feel was illegitimately (or not at all) explained

[borkjerfkin]

I'm starting to swing the other way on Wisdom again, too.

[borkjerfkin]

I hear I do that to people

[borkjerfkin]

And by people I mean you

[borkjerfkin]

I was referring to you raging at me in the dead thread of a prior game when I was close to fucking it up for town

But I'm kinda seeing Wisdom in a different light right now. I kinda want to wait on his lynch.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know that I can do that.

[borkjerfkin]

I will try.

Wisdom as town asks questions, makes lots of analysis posts, and throws out a lot of reads.
Wisdom as scum mostly just asks questions, answers ones that have objectively right or wrong answers with little/no analysis, and guards his reads.

He's doing what I believe to be the former here.

[borkjerfkin]

fate, scum (his vote is there)
Remem, town
Se-asians town (both #1439)
me, leaning town (#1034, #1072)
mollie I'm not really sure, probably null at this point? (#1456)
mantis was town but he's changing his mind (#1220)
rach he has not mentioned
you scum (had his vote on you recently)
etc.

yes, some of these might be outdated and/or fluid. but he's giving them and he's doing it pretty frequently.

[borkjerfkin]

I think he's been pretty liberal in calling plenty of people town this game.

Yeah, he's changing it up a bit. I don't see that as scummy.

I'm going to unvote as I don't feel comfortable with this lynch. Sorry.

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

so who do you feel comfortable lynching, bork?

Seriously I have little idea. Maybe mollie. I can't wait for her to come rage at me for saying that.

Not Rach, not remembrance, not IAI, now not you, probably not buldermar.

[borkjerfkin]

Everyone is afraid to vote Wisdom because he's posting a lot even though he's dropping horribly obvious scumtells all over the place, meanwhile voting Fate who no one really has a case on, or mislynch bait SE-Asians. Rem, you in particular are writing Wisdom off as town completely because he is active. Scum can post as much as town can. It's not impossibly difficult.

I don't know what to think of him. He's also making some town posts and claimed a day-1 PR if I'm not mistaking?

I thought it was Remembrance, Mollie, Nacho who did Day 1 PR.

Actually yeah scratch lynching mollie today my bad.

[borkjerfkin]

So not Nacho or Mollie today either.

That leaves Asians, Fate, Mantis....who else is in this game because they're not even in my short term memory right now.

[borkjerfkin]

Kuror is who I'm forgetting. Something about the way Nacho defending him pings me as a (town nacho believes this guy to be town or scum nacho is defending town for cred) thing. So not him.

[borkjerfkin]

Also @1481/1482 - you can always ask me for my reads instead of speculating.

That wasn't the point of the exercise. The point was to show that you're giving them. I thought that was pretty obvious from context.

[borkjerfkin]

There's also RachMarie, who isn't even voting anyone yet.

Rach seems really town gut to me.

[borkjerfkin]

I've played with her when she was scum a loooooong time ago. She spoke in generalities and she kept playing the "let's scumhunt guys come on!" card and then she pushed an obtuse case on town.

Then she got lynched.

This was about a year ago though so her scum play has probably improved quite a bit. She just seems to be giving truthful reads thus far which is a good sign.

[borkjerfkin]

Wisdom apologies if you've answered this but why Fate over SE-Asians for you?

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really get the case on HD; it doesn't attempt to draw a conclusion of why any of that was scummy.

[borkjerfkin]

I think I'd swap Rach w/ kuror and move asians to pretty much null or null/scum but my reads are really close to Wisdom's.

[borkjerfkin]

My level of confidence in them is shit, though.

[borkjerfkin]

my level of confidence in general is shit

[borkjerfkin]

V/LA Friday-Sunday

I'm here tonight and will try to figure out what to do

[borkjerfkin]

buld if it's wisdom or fate let's do fate. I agree with wisdom about mollie.

VOTE: Fate

[borkjerfkin]

I haven't been reading and won't be around long -- quick tl;dr on why people went to rach?

[borkjerfkin]

Meh Rach's claim is probably legit; I don't think Rach scum would think to wifom derp fakeclaim like that

[borkjerfkin]

Asians over Wisdom -- I don't see any other viable wagon at this point

VOTE: Asians

[borkjerfkin]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

[borkjerfkin]

wat

[borkjerfkin]

because if she's legit she's higher risk lynching today than any other day

[borkjerfkin]

If we lynch mollie on D1 we're lynching a potential power role (can help us at night if town)

if we lynch mollie on D2+ we're lynching a potential VT (cannot help us at night if town)

this is not rocket surgery

[borkjerfkin]

if all scum claims a N1 PR then yeah, we'd probably not lynch scum D1. That's a ballsy play from scum though -- that pidgeonholes them into a certain playstyle and makes them lynchable for the rest of the game. I don't want to eliminate potential cop results via lynch if we can help it.

[borkjerfkin]

buldermar I don't disagree that we should take that into account

just why not take it into account

tomorrow

?

[borkjerfkin]

I think you're objectively wrong here. Sorry.

[borkjerfkin]

Because this buys her a day, at best. It's not like not lynching mollie precludes us from possibly lynching another scum today.

If we do it tomorrow the risk is removed. What has she

gained

here (if scum)? What have we lost? You're talking about the likelihood of her claim being truthful (which I am not debating) and I am talking about the fact that the risk actually changes in our favor if we wait.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm pretty much done with this. Not voting Mollie today.

[borkjerfkin]

Hi

people should not talk about ongoing games so I don't have to replace out of shit

gg