Micro 151: Mafia in New-Newbie Land (Game over!)

[elvis_knits]

Hello!

VOTE: wisdom

[elvis_knits]

VOTE: elvis
omgus

[elvis_knits]

I should think it obvious it was not. You seem to feel otherwise to the point you had to ask. Why is that?

Just wondering if CE's second vote on Majiffy, without anything else in her post, had anything to do with your vote.

Pala, do

you

think CE's vote was scummy ( for the above reasoning)?

[elvis_knits]

elvis why did you just copy Mr E Roll's #17?

Didn't realize I did. Oops

[elvis_knits]

Late confirming is indicative of alignment?

[elvis_knits]

Why? What do scum gain by drawing out pregame?

[elvis_knits]

I feel like we are all trying really hard to get out of RVS and it's just not happening.

I think Pala's idea that scum want to prolong pregame... probably wrong. I mean, I've never found pregame that valuable as scum but maybe I'm just bad at strategy.

Xegaras #47 is slightly weird because he's defending majiffy's right not to random vote while he is also voting majiffy. But I guess it's just a random vote, so it's not super hypocritical to defend somebody you're random voting since random votes aren't that serious. Still... a bit odd.

[elvis_knits]

Also, I have no knowledge of majiffy. He has some sort of reputation?

[elvis_knits]

^^ helpful

Anything I should know??????????????????????

[elvis_knits]

Elvis is town.

This guy seems good to me

[elvis_knits]

If I thought he was scum i'd be voting him.

[elvis_knits]

So you think I am scum?

I random voted you for no reason whatsoever.

You haven't made me think you're prob town so I'm still voting you until I see something more worthy of my vote.

But I'm not particularly lusting for your blood either so I'm not calling for your lynch.

I feel like this game has been super tame and subtle so far and nothing is glaringly scummy to me. If nothing jumps out at me soon I think I'll need to overreact to something so that... something happens. Like even if I'm wrong we get lot more reads by seeing how people feel about bold moves.

[elvis_knits]

Do you realise you ruined your planned reaction test by announcing it?

I don't think it ruins it. I'm being honest. I don't feel bowled over by anything but if this continues I will be more aggressive.

It wouldn't be a reaction test like "I don't really believe this but I'm voting to get reactions...lol" It's like "I feel like this is a small thing but I do believe in it." And you never know where that goes.

It could work! Don't pee on my parade!

[elvis_knits]

Unvote, Vote: Majiffy

Pala, thanks for the answers.

Why majiffy?

[elvis_knits]

Hey Mr e roll, all you ever do is ask questions and don't really provide analysis.

It's getting annoying. I also think it's a way to fake participation. Like hey I'll just keep asking questions to look like I'm helping but I'm not actually doing shit! I havent even given any opinions!

VOTE: Mr. E roll

(Shut your pie hole, Wisdom!)

[elvis_knits]

I mean it though! This is not for reactions.

[elvis_knits]

See? It's hard to make that believable now.

You are peeing on my parade. His about offering your opinion on my Mr. E roll instead?

[elvis_knits]

But Mr. E roll... all your posts before that only consisted of one or two questions (except one, iirc), with NO opinions or analysis. Do you have any?

I know the game has been slow, but you've gotta start somewhere. Even if it's for a tiny tiny reason.

[elvis_knits]

And no, I don't think you should stop asking questions, and I never said that you should. But i want to know what your opinion is or some analysis.

[elvis_knits]

Hey look at Xegarus. Gets called out for lurking and posts immediately.

Oh baby!

[elvis_knits]

YAY STUFF IS HAPPENING!!!!"

Phone posting and skimming the thread...

I want to actually read these posts for sure but I think I want a Xegaras wagon.

I think moth is being kinda hypocritical to vote majiffy for not giving reasoning, when he originally voted majiffy without giving reasoning. But I still kinda think maybe they're just getting into a passing contest.

I really like wisdom's xegaras vote and think I join once I read since I'm only phone skimming now.

[elvis_knits]

@e the never mind was to the statement about Pala sheeping. I had posts confused and realized that that statement was false. I'm still curious about ratios. Like I said I would guess 2/7 or 3/6 is the norm.
The reason I asked that is because interaction is a big part of my read process. It makes it much easier to gauge that when I have an idea of who to look for. As for me being economical with words, it's not really the case in general. I'm a wordy sob.

And I didn't explain my vote because I wanted to get some discussion going. Nothing had been happening up to this point and if I have to make myself look a little scummier to jump start conversations so be it. Stagnant games are bad for town. So yeah, it was reaction testing.

Elvis, where art thou? I want your opinions on all this.

Also

R U SRS YOU DIDNT READ THE SETUP?

like. Just making sure, bro.

[elvis_knits]

The set up says it's 2/7.

If you really didn't know, you're town. Although, thus kinda slip can be faked. So I'm reading it as null. I don't think I'm particularly suspicious of you, so I guess it's w/e.

I wanna go charging off and vote xegaras but I still haven't actually read everything so I guess I should be a good girl and wait.

[elvis_knits]

And unfortunately that pic won't load on my phone. I'm sure it was hilarious though.

It's cookie monster dressed as a business man, drumming his fingers in boredom.

It's supercute.

[elvis_knits]

No let's quicklynch him

[elvis_knits]

^Good idea, seconded.

Lol I think maybe we could be friends

[elvis_knits]

Town hunting=lets tell the scum who to nk. Theory discussions aside and let's pretend I'm ok with that strategy for a moment. One sentence posts saying x is town =\= townhunting. Just saying.

^^Hey mothrax do you really believe this?

[elvis_knits]

Some people do.

Those people are idiots.

^^ Sick burn

Well I was gonna say that I only see scum say that giving townreads is a bad idea, but actually... I think I have probably seen some town saying it sometimes. But really, I have seen it more coming from scum. Scum discourage acceptance of townies as being townies because then it narrows their pool of people they can lynch. Nevermind how powerful a townblock can be, as you said.

Well, I severely dislike that from mothrax.

At first, when I was skimming, I read the whole exchange as a big pissing contest, so maybe moth is still town.

@ bork and Wisdom -- can you explain why you feel so confident that moth is town?

[elvis_knits]

I'm not a big fan of blatantly identifying all town reads no. I think it gives scum a clearer picture of who to nk. And the second part obv.

Eh, scum are gonna kill somebody no matter what.

I mean let's say I'm tonight's NK because several ppl have called me town. But maybe we can make enough progress today by cooperating that we lynch one scum today and set ourselves up for a sweet win tomorrow (or the next day). Well, then it doesn't really matter that I got the NK because we were able to make a lot more progress that we would by keeping our reads secret. Secrecy is for scum. They already know who they think will be hard to get lynched because they don't seem scummy. It doesn't hurt for us to say.

Or maybe there's a doc who can protect, so scum going for the obv kill will result in no kill.

So, yeah, I think it's to our advantage to give both town and scum reads.

[elvis_knits]

I really like wisdom's xegaras vote and think I join once I read since I'm only phone skimming now.

I’m ok with pressuring for some content but let’s be careful that this bandwagon doesn’t take on a life of it’s own before xeg gets a chance to respond.

I really dislike this.

At the time Mr. E Roll posted this, Xegarus had 2 votes on him.

I mean it's 5 to lynch right?

What is Mr. E afraid is going to happen? That we might lynch Xegarus? And how does he know that's bad? Does he feel that xegarus is town? Why caution us not to get carried away?

It just seems really weird to me.

Like either Xeg is Mr. E's scum buddy and he didn't want us to lynch Xeg before Xeg could try to talk his way out of it, or Mr. E knows Xeg is town and Mr. E is earning some town points prematurely. It just feels so weird and forced to caution a bandwagon that is small, when we've had trouble getting this game going. Finally, stuff is happening and Mr. E Roll is like "slow down again, please!"

[elvis_knits]

Keep in mind I'm also used to large themes. I played in mostly reckamonic and vi games when I was here last. I think the adjustment is factor. And I've never seen that side presented to me before, I srsly remember being told not to give away all my town reads. Considering someone super town is helpful yes, but like I said it gives scum an idea of who they can't get lynched.

OK. I do think you are might be right that that might have been the culture at one point. I just think it serves scum more than town so I dislike it.

I think I'm okay with you at the moment though.

[elvis_knits]

@ majiffy and mothrax, I think you two should hug it out.

I think that majiffy should maybe tone it down a bit and moth should try to let it go.

[elvis_knits]

So my top two suspects are Xegarus and Mr. E Roll, btw.

[elvis_knits]

3) His tone when accused of lurking. Like bork said, this sounds like accused scum who is annoyed about the reasons that they're being accused; probably thinking "wtf I would be like this as town too".

Have already pointed out why i disagree with that.
Now lets just entertain the thought that this is how i would play for both alignments. Assuming you believe it, what then?

this is how i would play for both alignments

this is how i would play for both alignments

this is how i WOULD play for both alignments

...

You're not saying you're town.

You're saying you would play this way if you were town.

That's a problem.

[elvis_knits]

third was calling someone town. Correct me if I'm wrong but the object of the game is scum hunting, right? If you aren't doing that I don't see much contribution going on.

Sure that the way town wins is by getting rid of scum, but getting a town is just as useful as getting a scum read. I can't see your point here.

I'm not a big fan of blatantly identifying all town reads no.

I agree.

I think it gives scum a clearer picture of who to nk

Is that night kill or no kill?
If thats a night kill, then certainly. But it can help whomever got the read influence others.......assuming he isnt just scum with town cred.
If it was no kill, i dont quite understand.

Well I was gonna say that I only see scum say that giving townreads is a bad idea, but actually... I think I have probably seen some town saying it sometimes. But really, I have seen it more coming from scum. Scum discourage acceptance of townies as being townies because then it narrows their pool of people they can lynch. Nevermind how powerful a townblock can be, as you said.

There is also the other argumant against giving reads that it changes how people play depending on the reads given. Like say you give a scum a town read. It could give them the confidence to bus their buddy and still end up on top.

It seems like you're saying all different things on the topic of townreads.

First you don't see mothrax's point, and then you agree with him.

Which one is it?

[elvis_knits]

I wanna go charging off and vote xegaras

Why?
You sure love mentioning me, you have yet to give a legitimate reason to vote. Why even mention this if you haven't read everything? It shows you already have a fixed mindset to an ideal and probably will interprete based around that ideal. Or you're scum. Your early play about being clueless to pre game theory looked so forced, as if to try and town slip.

First of all, I did want to vote you based on my feeling you were scummiest so far (because you popped in immediately after being called a lurker -- and I pointed out that I didn't like this) but didn't want to without making sure I had thoroughly read everything. And even after I read everything I didn't actually vote you -- so how did I interpret things with a fixed mindset?? I actually have changed some of my opinions based on my through read (like the fact that i got less sure mothrax was town). My behavior actually disporves everything you're saying up there.

And where was I clueless to pre game theory?? I never said I was clueless. I said I don't think scum try to prolong pregame, based on my experience that I never have, so I didn't think it was a tell.

And now you're trying to say I'm trying to fake a townslip? Wut? That's so scummy, man. First of all, I don't know where I have townslipped, or where you think I have, but if I did then why do you think it was fake? This seems like the most horrible scummy reasoning to try to throw doubt on a person that most people are thinking is prob town.

Heck

Xegaras #47 is slightly weird because he's defending majiffy's right not to random vote while he is also voting majiffy. But I guess it's just a random vote, so it's not super hypocritical to defend somebody you're random voting since random votes aren't that serious. Still... a bit odd.

WTF is this? This means absolutely nothing but you still mentioned it. Why?

Trying to generate content and get this game started?

I thought it was weird for you to vote a person and them defend them. Get it?

Have you read everything yet?
Still feel the need to vote me?

YEs, and yes, but I think I will see what your response is to this first.

[elvis_knits]

^^ That was most boring post evar

[elvis_knits]

Super scum, I'd guess

Also, my reads are parrots of Majiffy's? Didn't notice.

And, with the risk of being accused of sheeping and all, I think I like the xeg wagon. Majiffy feels town.

Just noticed you're voting majiffy...

Someone you think is town...

...

Uhhhh

???

...

[elvis_knits]

I really don't wanna play the wall post game with xegarus.

I think we both made our points.

I still don't like him.

[elvis_knits]

I don't like xegarus, or Mr. E roll.

But now I don't like CE either because he is voting majiffy who he says is town.

[elvis_knits]

Yeah that's true.

It's taking "not trying" to a new level.

But I guess I don't really get scum vibes off his posting. But my patience is waning.

And I don't like how he's apparently paying no attention to who he is voting or he knows he's voting somebody he thinks is town.

[elvis_knits]

Nah I wasn't suggesting we lynch CE.

OK I think it's time

VOTE: xegarus

You're L-1 dude.

But I really want more CE participation, hopefully before day ends.

[elvis_knits]

I am drunk right now

I have not read the thread

WOOOOOOOOOOOO

[elvis_knits]

Wait how does xegarus only have two votes wtf

[elvis_knits]

How does that make you feel?

It make me feel sad in pants!

But I still haven't read like the last two pages so maybe there's a good reason.

[elvis_knits]

Catching up...

Don't like mothrax stating intent so early in the game.

Why?

[elvis_knits]

I find it interesting that elvis did not express that concern when I told her she still wasn't voting him. She simply ignored me and finally voted after two posts, without any concern for the early L-1.

I'm not sure if it is wanted or needed for me to reply to this but...

I didn't care what you wanted so I ignored you. I started to feel that voting xegarus was inevitable... nothing he said was making me feel better about him.

And I didn't like that he was discouraging reads. I already said how I really dislike that regarding mothrax. Xeg was saying how he doesn't like people giving ALL reads. I just find that anti-town coming from anybody, and coming from somebody I already find scummy... it was part of the reason I felt it was right to vote him.

[elvis_knits]

So the xegarus wagon disbanded because mothraz stated intent to hammer and majiffy threw doubt on the wagon without unvoting so then pala got cold feet.

Um.

Wtf.

Like in my opinion the reason you unvote is that somebody does not seem scummy to you. You don't unvote or doubt a wagon because other people have started agreeing with you.

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry I haven't been active last few days. Life has been busy traveling and getting engaged

I will have time to catch up tomorrow.

[elvis_knits]

oh shi

congrats!

Thanks guyz!

[elvis_knits]

So like I still think xegarus needs death. He has never made me feel better about him. Wall of death posts that aren't helpful. Kill it with fire.

Um majiffy is full of shit regarding voting for pala. I don't see the things pala did as scum tells.

Um. Is there anything else that been happening?

[elvis_knits]

No because I gave done the things pala did as town so I dont think it's a scum tell.

I mean do you really think that he was so freaked out by you voting him that he felt like caught scym and asked to be replaced???

Like really.

Really.

[elvis_knits]

Also in my experience nooby scum would rather stay on a possible lynch than panic and unvote at L-1

[elvis_knits]

Also in my experience nooby scum would rather stay on a possible lynch than panic and unvote at L-1

No.

Yes.

[elvis_knits]

Anything else I can help you figure out?

Yeah, I would really like to know how to teach my dog to run the vacuum cleaner. Help pls.

[elvis_knits]

Also in my experience nooby scum would rather stay on a possible lynch than panic and unvote at L-1

No.

Yes.

you both are right. I have seen both happen.

Yeah. I'm not trying to say it's a town tell but just that it's not a scum tell.

[elvis_knits]

We really should have lynched xeg. Since that wagon derailed it's been like ten pages of shit.

[elvis_knits]

Sorry that sounded harsh and bitchy.

<3

[elvis_knits]

Firatly, still dont as much time as i would hope so i'll make this short.....which will please you bitches complaining about my walls.
I actually make them simple-er than how they are usually made so you're all welcome.

Secondly, Elvis, wtf have you done besides tunnel me? I still dont know what your case against me is and you haven't said really whats wrong. Heck, youve just avoided saying anything about my post.

Heres the one thing that bugs me about you the most.

say how shes going to vote me the whole game but doesnt do anything as such for most of it.

VOTE: Elvis


I understand the deadline is drawing near. So if you want to lynch me day 1, fucking do it. It will tell you more than a no lynch when i flip.

I finally drew you OMGUS. Sweet.

I have given my reasons for thinking you're scum so... lol.

And if tunneling is trying to complete a lynch that got derailed for ABSOLTELY NOTHING YOU DID TO MAKE ANYBODY THINK YOU'RE ANY LESS SCUMMY, then ok.

A noob got spooked off your wagon. That's all that happened.

[elvis_knits]

I would just like to make it clear that xrgarus has only voted people for suspecting him as scum.

He's not actually looking for scum.

He is only playing defense OMGUS.

[elvis_knits]

Eek sorry was prodded. I thought we were waiting for replacements.

I think I will have a little time this morning to catch up before deadline so I can be of some use.

[elvis_knits]

If you want, you can lynch me and then quicklynch elvis when i flip town.
Or you could lynch elvis and not lynch me at all when she flips scum.

WTF kind of reasoning is this

[elvis_knits]

Can you guys give me a cliff notes version if what's happening just to give me a framework. Cause honestly I don't know what is happening at this point

[elvis_knits]

^^ I like how you just misspelled your own name

[elvis_knits]

@elvis
Simple version; few hours left till the deadline and we should lynch someone.

I agree.

No lynch is giving scum a free kill tonight IMO.

Letting this day go for 33 pages was not a good thing. Although I guess we had replacements and such.

Can we lynch xegarus?

[elvis_knits]

@ek: you aren't even voting him. If you think he is the lynch, why not vote him? It makes zero sense from a town perspective.

Iirc I am voting xegarus...

Wut?

[elvis_knits]

Can we lynch xegarus?

Well, I'm voting him.

Tbh I blame you for derailing his lynch like 20 pages ago :p

But like what is the case on you wisdom-- looks you are the other person close to lynch?

[elvis_knits]

Chkflip and majiffy voting each other at this point is super anti town

[elvis_knits]

Well majiffys reason for voting pala was such shit.

Noobscum doesn't invite at l-1. They don't get scared. They get excited. Pala/chkflip us likely town IMO.

[elvis_knits]

Can everybody just read this post and then lynch xegarus:

If wisdom is so confirmed scum to you, why not save the easy one for last? Work out the partner first. We have the time to jump onto elvis.

I really can't see this coming from town.

VOTE: Xegarus

If he hammers me, please rope him tomorrow.

[elvis_knits]

reading up on the game and i actually like jake from state farm (which I didn't expect to since he replaced mr e roll that i was kinda suspicious of). I don't agree with him on wisdom though. His original reasons for voting xegarus seem stronger than his reasons for voting wisdom, imo.

jake -- first you voted xegarus, then within a few posts voted wisdom, with the reasoning that "he hasn't done a single thing pro-town." But he voted xegarus, so that's at least one thing that you should have liked since you were voting xegarus too.

[elvis_knits]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[elvis_knits]

Um...

But Majiffy.

So this is how my thought process went:

1)End of day yesterday was pretty crazy. Majiffy seemed to jump on the hammer all the sudden, seemed unpredictable.
2)Hey I think I noticed Majiffy trying to direct a cop near the end of yesterday. And directing power roles is you know, the scummeh.

Cop on Pala if he exists please so we can quicklynch him tomorrow when he shows scum, thanks.

3)Let's ISO Majiffy.
4)Oh look Majiffy seems to have suspected everybody in the game at one point or another, and changed his mind a few times on everybody. Seems like a ton of shitty unsupported reads that he changes whenever he fucking wants. I'm not gonna bother quoting this but i can make this case if needed.
5)Insistence on voting Pala, calling Pala's towntell a scumtell. DURRRR.
6) Noticed these two posts regarding mothrax's innocence of the setup and town/scum ratio:

That isn't a hard thing to fake as town. You'll have to come with something a bit stronger than that.

*as scum

Does this not look like Majiffy slipped that he knows Mothrax is town? Does this not look like majiffy is arguing that mothrax is not necessarily town while at the same time slipping and calling him town? And who would try to argue that somebody they think is town is actually scum? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[elvis_knits]

@elvis: I don't like Majiffy, but no that is not a scumslip; I don't put much stock in those freudian tells.

And no, I'm not interested in a case. This was talked to death in twilight yesterday while you didn't care about anything but Xeg.

Tbh I didn't read all that in twilight. I'm not such a fan on speculating before a flip. I was still hoping on xegarus scum although it did look unlikely.

I was trying to give some more content to help others judge my alignment since I wasn't really that helpful yesterday. The sheer number of pages and xegarus walls caused the game to get away from me.

I will try to come up with more that may be helpful.

[elvis_knits]

I feel pretty good about mothrax, Jake and bork

[elvis_knits]

So your entire case on me is that I thought xegarus was scum.

Because town can't be wrong?

Also... you were voting and pushing for xegarus lynch too. Have you forgotten that?

[elvis_knits]

So your entire case on me is that I thought xegarus was scum.

Nope, it's also the things I said in 624, and PoE.

Who is scum, elvis? Your scumread died.

I said I feel good about bork jake and moth so two of you, Mac and majiffy.

[elvis_knits]

yeah the nk is hard to figure out cause you have to ask yourself

would majiffy scum kill chk and paint himself into a corner or did scum kill chck trying to set up majiffy.

majiffy's switch makes him look bad, but he is an erratic player sometimes. I'm not ruling out Majiffy scum but I honestly don't think he would kill chck. Majiffy likes to argue and he could have easily left chck alive and argued with him all day creating a distraction if he was scum.

Nk speculating is a lot of WIFOM.

I would not rule out majiffyscum wanting to kill chkflip. Scum want to eliminate threats and chkflip was gunning for majiffy.

Also, IMO Pala's behavior was classic town PR. Unvotes xegarus because "it might force a claim." Only noob town PR's worry like that because they are a PR themselves. They're thinking how they would feel in that situation forced to claim. So. Pala being the kill is unsurprising to me. Anybody could have seen that and killed chkflip/pala for it.

[elvis_knits]

Well I didn't see that, but it's sure interesting that you did.

Yes I NKed Pala and I'm giving you my reasoning cause I'm just that stupid

[elvis_knits]

two of you, Mac and majiffy.

Any preference?

I'm not sure yet. I was thinking majiffy most.

[elvis_knits]

Or because you're WIFOMing us.

OR AM I????????????????

Dude, I said that nk spec is wifom. I was just providing possible reasoning for the nk to say how I don't think it rules anybody out. I don't see why you're trying to make me look scummy for it. REAAAAAAAACH.

[elvis_knits]

Omg wisdom. I'm not sure. When I know I will post it.

You're like really trying hard to find me scummy if you are picking on the tense of the verbs I am using.

[elvis_knits]

I am not trying to find you scummy, I am asking you what your reads are. If you say "I was thinking Majiffy" it implies that you currently are not thinking it's Majiffy. But you didn't make it clear.

As the day started I was thinking majiffy as evidence by my first post.

Currently I am thinking two of majifgy, Mac andyou.

I don't know how I can be any more specific for you. I do not know more about my thoughts than I am saying. And I don't think I am being vague or confusing.

Who are your reads?

[elvis_knits]

Who are your reads?

1002

So you're saying Mac, majiffy or me, I guess.

Which is the same as my reads except replace me for you.

[elvis_knits]

Jiffy is probtown. Too much Wifom there.

Something I read niggled me about Jake. I need to look again and remind myself what it was. Tomorrow. 14 hour shifts aren't conducive to goodposting.

You're really feeling majiffy town? Hmm. I'd like a little more about why you think that pls.

[elvis_knits]

FWIW, I am sorry if I tunneled on xagarus but I felt like he was scummiest. I felt like that was my best read so I thought it was best. It's not as if I didn't provide any other reads or look anywhere else though. As the day wore on I got distracted and demotivated though. I'm trying to do better today and be more thoughtful and not make the same mistake.

[elvis_knits]

Town also makes poorly phrased sentences that infer a party they are calling scum is town. So unless you've got more to call Mac scum for,

That being said, Mac has still avoided any and all direct interactions with me, so I'm going to keep my vote on him until I can get a read on him.

When I first read this question, I thought "this is scum trying to link me too him in case he dies." I've read it several times since then and still feel the same.

When I have ever avoid direct interactions with you? And when have you ever interacted with me, other than "look in my ISO?"

VOTE: Majiffy

Um.

I do not see how Majiffy was trying to link himself to you.

And for somebody who is entirely wishy-washy about his reads, you sure turned to voting Majiffy pretty quick after he reaffirmed his vote on you.

[elvis_knits]

Not much.

It didn't really look like a scumbuddy interaction to me.

It seems weird to me that you're paranoid about looking like his scumbuddy.

[elvis_knits]

majiffy, when does this flowchart stuff start?

[elvis_knits]

Gamestart. Sometimes you gotta cut the chaff before you can get down to brass tax.

Once you get a single scum flip the game becomes easy as pie.

[elvis_knits]

OK so I still feel uncomfortable with majiffy for the reasons I mentioned earlier. But something about me wants to like him. I'd still really like to hear why moth thinks he's so town to maybe help me.

Mac is super wishy-washy and quite easily went from wishy-washy to voting bork after bork voted him. That is ze scum eh.

Wisdom gives me bad feeling at the moment too and I have tried letting it sit in case it was just me being annoyed because he keeps calling me scum. But I feel like his questioning of me earlier this day was really a reach. Like he was trying desperately to pick on anything I say and paint it as scummy. It just seemed so fake yo me because I was giving all my thoughts already and I thought that should be perfectly obvious. So. I dunno. I guess I'm wondering if anybody agrees with me there or I should just chalk it up to being annoyed that he thinks I'm scum.

[elvis_knits]

Am I the she you guys are talking about?

[elvis_knits]

I have no idea what anybody is talking about on this page.

[elvis_knits]

Mac, what do you think of wisdom?

[elvis_knits]

Hate being on v/la. What happened to a push on wisdom?

The way that wagon fell apart yesterday means wisdom is scum. Lets not fuck around guys

Didn't you unvote him?

Honestly, I kinda want to lynch wisdom but I keep trying to tell myself that I can't let it be omgus.

One thing he did that I find pretty scummy is that he pushed the xegarus lynch too but then tried to blame it all on me. But again, I'm responding to a lot of his behavior in response to me. So I guess I'm wondering if others agree with my point that are more impartial.

P-edit... about ten posts and two votes on wisdom just came in while I was typing...

...

[elvis_knits]

he pushed the xegarus lynch too but then tried to blame it all on me.

lolwut
I voted Xegarus to compromise and I was just as willing to vote you. You tunneled hard on xegarus and looked nowhere else, not me.

As I remember you heckled ME to vote xegarus...

So

Lol

Total lie.

[elvis_knits]

But don't worry, I am not voting you anymore so you can hammer me and it won't be OMGUS.
(@elvis)

Do you see me voting you

Do you see me hammering you

Do you see me being one of the few people who hasn't voted you in the last page???

[elvis_knits]

You voted xeg first.

This post was you directed at me for questioning xeg before voting:

You're still not voting him.

Then you immediately start trying to paint my vote as scummy:

I find it interesting that elvis did not express that concern when I told her she still wasn't voting him. She simply ignored me and finally voted after two posts, without any concern for the early L-1.

Then...

I don't know, given she was hesistant to vote him early on (see 139), ignoring me there and L-1ing without any concern looked to me like nervousness about if she should vote or not. Maybe I'm speculating too much but that's the feeling I get.

So according to you yesterday, I was HESITANT to vote Xeg.

Now you say all I did was tunnel xeg and you have conveniently forgotten that you voted him first and encouraged me yo vote him!

[elvis_knits]

@elvis
This is about the initial wagon on Xegarus, not the one at the end of the day that got him lynched.
That wagon broke down because it was bad.
You kept pressuring him.
I didn't, I voted him later to compromise.
Boom.

How does any of that make your behavior on the early wagon any less scummy????????

And you are still blaming me for staying on a wagon that you started and pushed for. Like you had no responsibility.

I will take responsibility for my part on it, but I won't take responsibility for yours.

[elvis_knits]

Something majiffy never answered is how I pointed out he was directing power roles yesterday.

He said cop should investigate Pala.

I think that's scummy as fuck.

Only thing he said in response to me asking about this was something like "lolno"

[elvis_knits]

I'm torn between majiffy and wisdom.

I keep wanting to vote whoever is not the current flavor of the week.

[elvis_knits]

What is so ultra scummy about it?????

[elvis_knits]

You know why I am conflicted? One reason is that two of my suspects (you and Mac) are defending each other and voting my third suspect. My third suspect (majiffy) hammered yesterday without a claim and tried to fish for and direct a cop, but he's voting you. That makes both wagons a bit uncomfortable.

Mothrax isn't doing shit.

Jake killed his own wagon on you wisdom, disappeared, then restarted it without reading. This business of a test... feels kinda bad to me.

Bork is trying to tie me to majiffy before majiffy flips. He's never said that before, but all the sudden when majiffy is l-1, I am obv his partner? If you're gonna buss your buddy you tie him to a townie on the way down so you get free lynch tomorrow. Alternately, bork could just think we're buddies I guess but the timing and possibilities for scum motivation make me unhappy.

So yeah that's my problem.

[elvis_knits]

So I am guessing you have no town reads at all?

Fuck you wisdom.

If you're town, please fuckkng work with me because I am trying.

I have some uneasiness, but that doesn't mean I don't have town reads.

I still think moth is town. I still think Jake is town. I am conflicted about bork after he tried to tie me to majiffy, which is making me think I may have to rethink some of my scum suspects because I obviously have too many.

I am serious here, if you are town please work with me to help me refine my reads instead of taking pot shots at me to try to subtly make me look scummy.

[elvis_knits]

You could ask a question that is not dripping with disdain

[elvis_knits]

I haven't defended Wisdom by the way, your scumread on me is based on "wishy-washy" ewads which I don't feel is true.

You're right you haven't defended wisdom. I was simplifying and posting from phone in bed.

Your reads seem really incremental and changed easily based on small actions. That is what I mean and it is true. Maybe that's just the way you think though. I see just personal play style as a potential explanation, tbh.

[elvis_knits]

Btw it's terrible that you're conflicted about bork, just because of that. Have you never seen town trying to find out scumpairs and association tells?

Well, yes. But it's the way he's done it at the last possible moment, to someone he's never mentioned as scum (I think he has thought I was town, iirc).

I am trying to weigh that against his other play though, which is why I'm not like voting bork. I thought it was strange how he jumped off his latest wagon to try to put the nail in majiffys coffin.

Which actually is not scum buddy behavior. You wouldn't leave a rival wagon to cement your buddies wagon and tie him to a town.

OK. I guess I just don't like being called scum.

Hmmm. I guess you may be right.

[elvis_knits]

You should probably read my other posts on this topic because I've already admitted that I think I was just disliking being called scum but that you are prob not scum motivated.

I'm in a no-win situation on majiffy now. If he flips town then I look town but we lynched a town so that sucks. If he flips scum you think I'm scum and we mislynch tomorrow if we lynch me. But w/e. I'm not gonna worry about myself. If majiffy flips scum I'll just have to try to convince you I'm town. That's fine.

[elvis_knits]

Um. I'm not decided. I'm sorry.

Are we ready to end the day. I thought Jake wants to reread and moth hasn't really participated at all.

mod, can you prod/replace mothrax?

[elvis_knits]

I would hope your vote would be on the one you think is more likely scum regardless of what it makes me think of you, yeah.

Ya that's what I'm gonna do.

[elvis_knits]

Wisdom you should DIAF

[elvis_knits]

I'm gonna vig you tonight.

[elvis_knits]

Vanilla Townie.

popcorn wisdom.

[elvis_knits]

I guess I'm dumb because I thought the scum would try to counterclaim.

[elvis_knits]

Scum probably already knows they are caught given the lack of kill. It's auto win IMO.

If scum know they got blocked then they would have to counterclaim. Otherwise they lose today.

[elvis_knits]

Well I would have claimed blocker had I been blocked last night. Right or wrong, I would have. If you think I am just lying, then :shrug:

I do think the correct play is to lynch whoever Mac blocked last night. Hopefully that person is scum and game over. However, judging from the fact that the scum has claimed VT, they might have no-killed last night and planned this exact scenario. Today we lynch Mac's block. Tonight Mac gets killed (unless he can block the scum). Tomorrow could be lylo with no confirmed town. So I just ask that we give whoever is the lynch a chance to give any last tboughts and also that we plan for worst case scenario.

[elvis_knits]

Who did you block N1?

[elvis_knits]

no-kill it was, then.

Last words?

[elvis_knits]

That plan is not fool-proof, BTW.

[elvis_knits]

See the questions I was pondered about the mass claim made me wonder if bork was the scum rolefishing. But I blocked Wisdom last night.

No. I told you why i called for it: it allows us to direct you at the scummiest person to either clear them or stop them from killing. Its a win either way.

I meant this.

[elvis_knits]

My problem with the wisdom lynch is the towntell i pointed out in my last post, as well as associative tells between majiffy/elvis. Id say lynch wisdom and mac on elvis or the opposite.

Why would you put any stock in a "town tell" from twilight after a scum self hammer?

[elvis_knits]

That lynch was on scum terms. Scum self hammered. It is likely that it was done to help his buddy, and even if not planned, it is reasonable to expect scum to try to look more town. It's easy to fake ignorance of the flip, or pretend you think your buddy is flipping town. I'm not saying it's scummy, it's just not a town tell.

[elvis_knits]

Can you explain that to me?

[elvis_knits]

But what if there's another no-kill. You have to lynch me because I was the block target. Then I flip town. Then what?

[elvis_knits]

OK.

VOTE: wisdom

[elvis_knits]

I'm wondering what majiffy-wisdom interactions there were.

[elvis_knits]

I'm wondering what majiffy-wisdom interactions there were.

Instead of hoping someone will look at our "interactions" and interpret something as incriminating, do the search yourself.

I was going to, then i decided it didn't matter. Lynching you is the right play, no matter what the interaction is.

I notice you're not putting up any defense.

[elvis_knits]

I really don't make sense. If you think i would point out one of the most concrete reasons majiffy was scum (directing the possible cop), but not have the sense to actually buss him, then lolkay.

I will accept that I haven't played this game very well. If you are somehow not scum, then it's probably me tomorrow. I'll do my best to get enough discussion so that town can lynch right after that. And that's the best i can do at this point.

[elvis_knits]

Fwiw, if it's not wisdom I think it could be mothrax because he's lurked much of the game and kept saying majiffy was town for bad wifom reasoning. He also has been playing this day like it's a total lock for town.

[elvis_knits]

Well massive wifom there but let's just hope it's Wisdom.

[elvis_knits]

I'm not scum though.

BOOM

[elvis_knits]

It's kind of ironic that Mac blocked wisdom, given how wisdom was protecting Mac (from majiffy) all day.

[elvis_knits]

Maybe there's no way for us to understand this and it's not helpful. But I just can't figure out why majiffy self-hammered and who (being his buddy) benefitted from that.

[elvis_knits]

Guess again

NK-immune miller vig?

[elvis_knits]

If I were him, I would be pretty pissed at majiffy.

[elvis_knits]

In paranoid moments I worry about bork because he all the sudden came up with the case tying me to majiffy right before majiffy self hammered. But then I do think he's pro town for a lot of other reasons.

[elvis_knits]

Nono confirm meeeeee!

[elvis_knits]

Bork gets so cranky

[elvis_knits]

OK so now you know I am town.

That seems like such a consolation prize.

[elvis_knits]

I probably favor a mothrax lynch, and my biggest reason is his insistence that majiffy was town for absolutely shitty reasoning.

I want to reread majiffy and mothrax (and maybe everybody) before i decide for sure though.

[elvis_knits]

Scum is between bork and jake then. I will have computer access again tonight. I'll hopefully have time to do some retreading then. Phone posting doesn't cut it in mylo.

You just totally ignored the fact that bork stated intent to vote you and I said as much as well.

That's weird to ignore.

[elvis_knits]

I came into today knowing that unless you were scum I would be the prime target. I'm not ignoring that. But it really looks like there's not much point beyond this. I'm gonna get lynched today. Scum wins. Gg.

Honestly, if you're town, please try. I will listen. I am marginally leaning you but only marginally.

Who do you think is scum?

[elvis_knits]

Well like honestly, I think bork is wrong to confirm anybody based on twilight speculations. Like that's complete shit.

[elvis_knits]

I didn't really feel like bork was scum anyway, but this most recent turn on Jake seems pretty town. I don't think scum would change off of a perfectly good lynch target for no reason.

As I remember, I didn't like Mr. E roll and was voting him early. I want to go back and read some things. But I could just as easily vote Jake at this point.

[elvis_knits]

Dammit. I am sorry. I will read today and make a useful contribution.

[elvis_knits]

Okay. I have skimmed all plus read some stuff in greater detail.

I'm kinda ready to vote Jake and end the day.

@bork and mothrax, do you want me to read everything more thoroughly and discuss everything with you to make sure we're really sure, or are you okay with me just hammering?

[elvis_knits]

Mothrax has been mostly absent and mostly unhelpful and called majiffy town for BS meta reasons.

He's could totally be scum.

I have to read the last few pages of your interaction with Jake before I comment on him.

[elvis_knits]

I want to vote jake

[elvis_knits]

This is what Jake has done this game:

1) Coached Majiffy scum not to vote mothrax for townslipping:

mothrax town slipped btw

Coached Majiffy again not to vote chkflip:

@ Majiffy - why is pala/chk scum? - make a case. Changing your vote close to deadline is horrible because you know nobody is going to follow you.

2) Pushed for Wisdom to be lynched. Wisdom is pretty much the only person he ever pushed, and when i look at the reasoning not it seems pretty weak, especially to be his only scum read THIS ENTIRE GAME.

my reasoning for voting Wisdom was the fact I just caught him active lurking. He hadn't posted in 2 days and moments after I drop a vote he shows up to question it. Doesn't question any of my other posts or anything.

3) Subtley affirms the Xegarus wagon while still voting wisdom.

so reading up on what I missed over the weekend and I'm still good with my vote on Wisdom but I think elvis made a good point about X, the OMGUS is strong with that one. I'd still rather lynch wisdom. he hasn't done a damn thing pro-town

X would be my alternative vote

4) Defends majiffy

I rarely see majiffy provide good reasons for his vote. Fuck in a game we played together I found scum and majiffy got all the credit and people just thought I bussed.

majiffy not giving reasons is par for the course imo

mainly gut, I don't recall if I have ever played with majiffy as scum but all of his earlier posts reminded me of games we played. I could be reading him wrong but I don't see anything scum motivated. The only thing that really stood out was the vote on mothax who committed what i took as a town tell.

Defended Majiffy to chkflip when chkflip called majiffy scum:

Your vote flip-flopping, scumbutt. You're worse than a politician.

Welcome to the new MS, vote hopping isn't scummy anymore.

yeah the nk is hard to figure out cause you have to ask yourself

would majiffy scum kill chk and paint himself into a corner or did scum kill chck trying to set up majiffy.

majiffy's switch makes him look bad, but he is an erratic player sometimes. I'm not ruling out Majiffy scum but I honestly don't think he would kill chck. Majiffy likes to argue and he could have easily left chck alive and argued with him all day creating a distraction if he was scum.

OK WOW THAT IS A LOT OF DEFENDING MAJIFFY.

[elvis_knits]

OK I ready to hammer.

[elvis_knits]

So your response to my case on you is "whatever"??

[elvis_knits]

One thing that is fucking with my head is mothrax's apparent town slip. You know, where he seems to not know the scum/town ratio.

I mean, my original reaction was not to put any stock in it because that can be faked, especially in a semi-open setup where the ratio is disclosed. But if it's real I'm gonna feel like an asshole if we lynch him as town. And Jake, you originally saw it as a legit town slip. You believe now that it was fake?

It seems very very strange and unusual for anybody NOT to know the ratio when that information has been disclosed since sign ups. I mean, does anybody else think that it's not so weird for mothrax not to have even glanced at the setup during sign ups or pregame?

[elvis_knits]

^^ Wut? Why?

[elvis_knits]

I really feel like this is a crap shoot.

You both said you thought jiffy was town.

Moth hasn't done shit. Jake only tunneled wisdom.

[elvis_knits]

I looked more closely at Jake last night. I'm gonna take a look at moth again tonight

[elvis_knits]

I have to say that I have never had a game where I have felt so torn and unsure about everything.

[elvis_knits]

Moth

[elvis_knits]

Didn't you say moth did the no-kill as scum in another game?

[elvis_knits]

Oh. :/

Bleh.

I chose wrong in lylo last time I played also.

:/

[elvis_knits]

Hmmm.

I'm torn though cause I LIKE moth.

[elvis_knits]

Nobody likes me. I'm to abrasive smh

I don't dislike you. I didn't mean it like that. I mean, I like you.

It's just that I've had Speakeasy interaction with mothrax which makes me know and like him more than just in the context of the game.

[elvis_knits]

I don't have any personal issues with either of you, but I really wish whichever one of you is town were a little easier to read.

I keep coming back to my #1442. I can't get past my townread on Jake for (what I felt was accidentally) misinterpreting the interaction between Majiffy/Wisdom/Me.

Ok I read your 1442 and jake's post you referenced in it. I think you have a pretty good shot of being right there.

Let's just do it.

Sorry, if I'm wrong.

VOTE: mothrax

[elvis_knits]

and I instantly regret it.

Man, this game has been hard for me.

[elvis_knits]

ARE YOU SCUM OR TOWN?!?!?!?!

[elvis_knits]

COME ON MAN!

[elvis_knits]

Well, why would he lie?

[elvis_knits]

Hmmm.

Oh well.

Cross fingers?

[elvis_knits]

You're a dick for still saying you were town even after I hammered moth.

Sorry mothrax.

[elvis_knits]

I have literally never heard of that.