Open 490: Donner Party Mafia (Game Over)

[DCLXVI]

vote:fferyllt

for not voting in her first post

[DCLXVI]

Do you have multiple votes to give out on that same line of reasoning?

Let's see

1/3 vote: fferyllt
1/3 vote: MeowMix
1/3 vote: Cheery Dog

...In all seriousness there is this thing called RVS which is normally how people start off games.

[DCLXVI]

Well, in order to get to the stuff that ends RVS you have to go through RVS, and by refusing to do RVS every game you play in will probably start like this... No pain no gain right?
However, I did go through and look at your games and your meta is to not do RVS so...

unvote:fferyllt
vote: Cheery Dog

(cause he's not a cat) And I don't like his vote.

[DCLXVI]

oh and...

My role PM says MeowMix is scum.

VOTE: MeowMix

Not liking this either

[DCLXVI]

I think we should create a cat voting block. DEATH TO THE DOGS.

In all seriousness, I take back what I said in post 15. I'm not seeing meow as scum for that joke post.

vote:havingfitz

for his terrible vote on fferylt right after I had pulled up fferylt's meta.

[DCLXVI]

Well it was a very scummy RVS vote given the circumstances.

[DCLXVI]

You see, what happens in RVS is that we vote "randomly" until something at least slightly scummy happens and then we move on. I'm not in RVS mode which I made clear of by emphasizing that I was being serious.

[DCLXVI]

I think some people overdosed on stupid pills before this game started. I'll elaborate on that in a bit.

[DCLXVI]

Another thought as I'm reading. MM you should get an avatar...there have to be some good cat pics on the internet.

[DCLXVI]

Apologies for not posting as much as I should have been. This is my attempt to get caught back up.

Reads will come later, though you can probably guess some of them from this.

Spoiler:

I don't do RVS.

I do (begrudgingly)...

VOTE: fferyllt

The reason I don't like this vote by fitz is that the no RVS issue with fferylt had already been resolved. His meta clearly showed that he was playing as he normally did, it was a bad vote and a poor attempt to join a bandwagon.

RVS is meta as fuck.
VOTE: fferyllt

Also not liking this and not sure how I missed it early. In fact, it is worse because he acknowledges the meta discussion and dismisses it without any good reasons for doing so. IMO there are a lot of times when meta isn't very clear. This was not one of them ferrylt was playing according to her meta which makes her non-participation in RVS a null tell.

Because you've not made a single reference to my RVS joke on you. If you were town, you'd have laughed about it like we did in that newbie game, since half that game was me yelling at you for that joke.

Since you ignored it, that means you don't like the attention, ergo you're scum.

This is just stupid, not scummy stupid, or town stupid, just stupid.

You mean this?

if by good you mean extremely risky and pretty hilarious, then yes I agree

P-edit: VOTE: MeowMix

actually I was trying to not attract attention to it deliberately to see how other people were gonna react to it

I had a good chuckle IRL if that means anything to you

Interesting little test by Sry. I don't know how conclusive/accurate the test would, however MM's reaction in ^ this post comes off to me as a complete lie or justification. It's seems incredibly ingenue and not to mention unrealistic do to his join date. I don't think a new player would actually think that deep into an early game action like that when he didn't evenknow the significance of Sry's test most likely until Sry announced it.

VOTE: MeowMix

Two crappy votes, this is why I don't like the meow wagon.

---

Not liking USC's posts 44-46, his push on meomix does not seem genuine.

---

actually I was trying to not attract attention to it deliberately to see how other people were gonna react to it

I had a good chuckle IRL if that means anything to you

You wanted to see the reaction of people to your not trying to attract attention?

I think think that's bs.

VOTE: MeowMix

missrepping in order to join a wagon. I think that's strike two now against fitz.

-----
@goodmorning 55, IDC if you are a cat, you are annoying.
-----

I think we should create a cat voting block. DEATH TO THE DOGS.

In all seriousness, I take back what I said in post 15. I'm not seeing meow as scum for that joke post.

vote:havingfitz

for his terrible vote on fferylt right after I had pulled up fferylt's meta.

.... is this for real? You're voting fitz because of an RVS vote?

If this is serious, what the hell. If it's not, why are you still in RVS-mode?

When I use the phrase "in all seriousness" that means I'm not in RVS mode.

As I explained early in this post. Fitz's RVS post was bad considering the context of it with me having already posted confirming fferylt meta. Yes, it is possible for someone to make a scumm RVS vote. We get out of RVS by finding scummy RVS posts by other players.

Omg, you just discovered the name of one of my EM accounts. Take out 'the'

This post itself gives me scummy vibes. Rvs is over

Of course RVS was over, again please pay attention to the word "serious" and my explanation of my vote.

No, 666's vote is terrible because he's basing it off an RVS vibe. He's got much better targets around, such as MM for scummy responses or some of the folks on MM's wagon (which other people have pointed out but I can't be arsed to quote). I didn't get a scummy vibe off fitz's RVS and I don't see how 666 did. The partners comment came from 666's lack of justification for thinking MM town and subsequent vote on fitz for reasons that I believe to be very shaky.

Its perfectly ok to make a page two vote off of an RVS vibe (actually, now that I think about it, all the votes on MM are for things that started in RVS, wait, you can vote for RVS stuff but I can't HYPOCRISY)

In all honesty, I'm not sure. I'd actually be okay with a MM lynch today, as it'll benefit us either way (if he's town, he'll be a tough read later on; if he's scum/SK, great. The only bad outcome is if he's PR). He could easily be noobscum, but I still don't have a concrete read on him.

Town lynches are never good. You don't lynch someone cause you are shitty as reading them, that's bullshit, You lynch someone ONLY because you read them as scum. That is the only legitimate reason to be wanting to lynch someone.

I agree with Sry on the DC situation.

So you are on stupid pills too? Ok.

Though I'm one to talk at this point, I feel like noobtown is a liability in LYLO/MYLO. Sorry if I didn't phrase that well before.

That's what vigs are for.

Spoiler: 666's vote despite the flow of the game

So you think that it is bad that I am not sheeping everyone else and rolling with the crowd. Lolz, I like to think for myself.

Requesting a prod on Cygnus.

Cygnus has now been prodded.

...scummy things can happen in RVS too...

Any time now.

It was kinda weird that you retracted a random vote on me based on a scan for my RVS meta. Random votes don't need justification and don't need refutation.

Well, my vote was random random, it was for the reason of you not doing RVS. And once my reason was shown to be invalid, I decided to place my vote somewhere else.

Malakittens replaces Cygnus.

Hi there, you are in so many of my recent games I swear you are stalking me

[DCLXVI]

sorry. scifi slang for something like experiential awareness. DLCXVI did RVS but didn't seem to get RVS.

Unless you are rolling dice a random vote isn't truly random. RVS is a misnomer.

[DCLXVI]

fferyllt, you are the one lacking 'grok' since you don't ever do RVS.

[DCLXVI]

Duh, scum probably hacked it

[DCLXVI]

Duh, scum probably hacked it

Okay, DC, do you have anything else to add other then this? Such as reads on others other then Fitz and current happenings?

...Really, you are going to criticize someone for making a joke? It hasn't even been 24 hours since I made my catchup post. Relax.

Reads will come when they come. However, I can inform you that you are on my scumlist.

[DCLXVI]

Well, just because my catchup post wasn't as fancy as your doesn't mean I'm not interested in the game.

[DCLXVI]

It only appears that way because I went awol from the thread after voting fitz and I haven't finished my reads post.

[DCLXVI]

Saying I'm not tunneling fitz does not equal me saying I don't think he is scum.

[DCLXVI]

More or less

[DCLXVI]

I happen to be working on the reads post I said I would do.....Had USC looked at the other game I had posted in he would under stand why I was prioritizing it. I told you I would make a reads post and I will. A game in lilo (open setup. So nothing wrong with pointing that out.) Is going top be the first game ipost in before I post in a day one for what should be obvious reasons...

[DCLXVI]

Oh and today is Friday... I had last posted yesterday... One day between posts is not lurking.

[DCLXVI]

@syrana do you think auspicious is scum?

[DCLXVI]

@Syryrana would him being replaced make you not want to lynch him?

[DCLXVI]

Can we either prod, replace or lynch auspicious please

I really don't like this post. Why ask simultaneously for a lynch OR a replacement? This just seems odd. Like you halfheartedly want him lynched, but want a way out too.

Either you think the slot is scummy and therefor want it gone, or you think it is inactive and needs someone else to come in. The fence-sitting you are engaging in must be painful to certain parts of your body.

[DCLXVI]

Can someone remind me what the case on auspicious is again?

[DCLXVI]

@goodmorning, applying self meta to other people isn't normally that effective.

[DCLXVI]

you're backtracking, you most certainly implied it at the bottom of 351.

[DCLXVI]

Well, aren't we all being nihilistic today.

[DCLXVI]

Can someone remind me what the case on auspicious is again?

[DCLXVI]

declaring intent to hammer auspicious.

@fitz, does anyone ever like a vote on themself?

[DCLXVI]

reasoning...do you not get the concept of a joke?

[DCLXVI]

I remember saying I would give reads earlier, I apologize for not doing so.

People I'm suspicious of:

Goodmorning- among other things I do not like his BS response about self-meta
Syryana- head says she is acting town, her case against auspicious makes sense, but there are multiple scum in this game so that doesn't mean much as far as alignment goes. Gut says something is wrong here, several of my exchanges with her, especially the one about auspicious feel off.
Havingfitz-I've explained this already
Auspicious- I agree with Syryana's case on him. Probably will hammer. I certainly feel significantly better about lynching him than I do about lynching otolia.

I honestly don't have any substantial town-reads at the moment and I have no intention of just making up bs to fill an entire reads list. I don't feel like giving out any right now anyway.

Some other things about auspicious, that I think I wrote about early but is worth repeating:

In all honesty, I'm not sure. I'd actually be okay with a MM lynch today, as it'll benefit us either way (if he's town, he'll be a tough read later on; if he's scum/SK, great. The only bad outcome is if he's PR). He could easily be noobscum, but I still don't have a concrete read on him.

The vig can take out players like that, not liking how he tried to justify lynching town. (so if mm was lynched and flipped town he would have an easy out on it.)

[DCLXVI]

@Otolia

you said that "this looks like a give up post to me." What is your opinion of that? town/scum/null?

[DCLXVI]

@Mala, I thought you were scummy for your extremely in-depth catchup post, it looked like you were trying to hard to be town, however, I went through other games you replaced in as town and you did the same thing so its null.

@USC, I forgot about it since it was a while back.

[DCLXVI]

@fitz, does anyone ever like a vote on themself?

^That was the joke

[DCLXVI]

@mala, why did you think I had found your catchup post suspicious? I never said anything about it.

[DCLXVI]

Goodmorning- among other things I do not like his BS response about self-meta

What is this referring to?

...gun to my head, my opinion on everyone would be:

Last time I said this I was Scum.

@goodmorning, applying self meta to other people isn't normally that effective.

I never said it was.

you're backtracking, you most certainly implied it at the bottom of 351.

If you feel that is what I was implying then that's your prerogative.

[DCLXVI]

Also, DC, you know difference of opinion doesn't make someone scum.. Right?

Please explain how this is at all relevant.

[DCLXVI]

What would be the point of saying "Oh look, that player over there is doing what I do as scum" if it is not to imply that that player is actually scummy?

If GM is not trying to say that Aus is scummy, what exactly is the value behind typing that sentence out? I can't see any townmotivated reason for that aspect of his post and GM never gave a good response as to why he made that point in the first place.

Your post about difference of opinion stuff is bullshit. Of course differing opinions in and of them self do not make someone scum. What matters is what the point is that is being discussed, if I think GM is lying (which I do) than that is a difference of opinion in which I think I have every right to call him out as scum for.

[DCLXVI]

to cast the auspicious' comment as potentially scummy for the benefit of other players, and to press for a reaction from auspicious.

The first one is what I think he did. I believe that GM was trying to make Aus look scummy, BUT when called out for his bad reasoning (self meta on others is bad) he denied that he was trying to say Aus was scum. That is why I find GM scummy.

The second reason, reaction test, is stupid. That excuse can be made about any bad post.

And actually, after thinking this through, I'm not content with an Aus lynch, he can be delt with at a later time.

vote:goodmorning

LAL

[DCLXVI]

You are lucky this setup has plurality lynches and that no lynch is not allowed in this setup because there's one day to the DL and you are trying to cause a mass switch onto a CW which can be seen as trying to protect Aus and/or trying to force a no lynch.

I believe GM is scummy for my own reasons, but I'll gladly admit it's just gut plus a difference of feel from the last game I played in with him.

1. when I made that vote there was 24 hours left.
2. I am aware of the rule set
3. I am perfectly capable of moving my vote to auspicious, not that I need to, I'm conflicted about whether he should be lynched. I wanted to make a point about goodmorning and used my vote to do so.

[DCLXVI]

He has posted and claimed. located here

Find it interesting Ot said what I said to DC a few hours later.

Ahh, vanilla. How uninteresting.

Would you rather we had run up a pr claim?

[DCLXVI]

Or two people targeted the same person...

[DCLXVI]

Yeah, cause lynching town is certainly the right direction

Vote:goodmorning

cause what I said about him yesterday still stands.

[DCLXVI]

mala have you played with me as town?

[DCLXVI]

And how am I tunneling?

I have interacted with everyone, and have multiple scumreads its not like I'm stuck on GM...so what is your point?

[DCLXVI]

@DC - no, I don't believe I have played with you when you were town.

Well you can hardly make a legit meta case with only half the info.

and I do honestly think GM is lying. If you don't agree, that is your problem, but that is my position.

[DCLXVI]

You're tunneling because you have been remotely on target with GM or Fritz.

Tunneling is when you focus on just one person all game and ignore everything else that is going on. I haven't done that. I have voted multiple people, interacted with everyone, provided reads. No, I am not tunneling and I don't think you know what tunneling even is.

[DCLXVI]

Well you see, when Svenskt fakeclaims vig maybe he wants to say that he shot USC.

[DCLXVI]

Well the argument you gave saying I was tunneling didn't match up with what tunneling actually is.

pedit, relax he can still answer it. My post didn't change that.

[DCLXVI]

Nope. I didn't put him at L-1.. That was Fery. I will admit I put him at L-2, but I feel it was justified. As I stated his cases felt very similar to what he did in a past scum game of his. He is respectfully tunneling on both Fitz and GM. He voted at a time on GM that didn't matter and felt it was late in the day to do so. I also felt you were in my mindset because you shared the same thought process of I did with DC and Sven and their votes.

How can you say I am scum due to meta if you haven't played with me as town!!! Come on people, can you not see how stupid this meta argument is?

In order to tunneling to be a scum-tell. It would have to be something I only do as scum. So if you haven't seen my town play, you cannot make a legitimate meta case.

Tunneling refers to having tunnel vision. That means someone who is tunneling is so focused on one person or thing that he ignores everything else. That does not describe my play this game either way.

So three points.

1. You can't make a meta case on someone without town and scum meta.
2. I wasn't even tunneling, so the case is bs.
3. Even if I was tunneling, I have tunneled as town before so it would still be bs to say that tunneling is something I only do as scum.

That should be all I need to say about this.

[DCLXVI]

I think Otolia is town.

[DCLXVI]

The micro I felt you were trying to find footing with the Mastin case to see what stuck and to go from there and P.S. you tunneled hardcore on him until he died.

Forgot to post about this.

Mastin tunneled on me. He called me out as scum in his first post and didn't stop till he was day-vigged. I was defending myself.

I didn't pick someone out to tunnel that game, I had no choice cause he was coming after me like crazy...nice try to misrep though. Afterwords in the following days of that game I tried to keep my options open and be willing to lynch anyone without showing it. day 2 and day 3 I kept my reads open. Day 4 (lylo) I panicked, voted om and got lucky.

[DCLXVI]

@mod going to be v/la from now through thursday

[DCLXVI]

I think Oto is a good wagon. Since its not getting attention even though people have been trying to build it since Day 1..

Usually when a wagon is hard to build there's a high chance of it being scum

..

@mala, Wait, doesn't this mean you are saying I am town?

[DCLXVI]

dcl+goodmorning

help me bus my 'buddy' then.

[DCLXVI]

Well you see, when Svenskt fakeclaims vig maybe he wants to say that he shot USC.

This is a very towny post.

If I was vig, I shot cherry, but I am not so I didnt.

DIdnt even notice that it was dcl that wrote the post.... its not even 5 am here. Color me convinced.

Ffer is a good town player in that she is obvious in her "i want to understand everything" approach. I am not seeing that atm and her vote + unvote on dcl makes me feel uncomfortable. Dont think she should be on the table yet thou.

VOTE: unvote

and what do you suggest I do to prove that I am town...I don't think you have ever explained why you think I am scum.

[DCLXVI]

And how am I supposed to "prove" that I am town? that is a very vague and subjective request.

Asking someone to prove that they are innocent is a bullshit request, that is why our legal system is innocent until guilty, not guilty until innocent. If you think I am scum state why and I will gladly take the time to refute it, otherwise, I don't have anything to say about that.

[DCLXVI]

Our legal system doesnt have a death tax that kills people... this is a race between NKs and cleared townies, so your point is invalid. If you want to go arround and trust everyone thats another scum point.

Irrelevent.

My point about the principle of innocent before proven guilty still stands. There is good logic behind that principle. The point is that it is basically impossible to prove that you are innocent of something. A reason court decisions are guilty/not guilty. NOT guilty/innocent.

In other words, you are asking me to do something that is in all practicality impossible instead of making a case against me.

[DCLXVI]

I know that bulba.

The point is, vaguely asking someone to prove that their are innocent and not making a case on them is stupid.

That is my point. That and only that, does anyone disagree with me on this?

I think GM is scum for reasons already given, he is my main scum read.
I think syry is scum, I really can't give any good reasons for that read though. All I can say is that a lot of the conversations I have had with him feel fake
I think mala is scum, her meta case on me is absolutely retarded, but I

think

know that I have explained that earlier in this thread

I'm little suspicious of Svenskt I'm going to go and read through what I missed and make up my mind about him and I want to take a look at that stupid wagon that popped up at the start of the day as well.

Otolia is a near certain town-read (I have what I believe is a decent reason for this that I don't feel like sharing right now.)
Bulba is leaning town, I like his entrance to the game (and not just cause he called me town)

[DCLXVI]

DISREGARD THE WORD "PROVE" IF THAT HELPS.

now please, I want to work together, not against, for that to happen I need to trust people.

Can you point to where you think you have done towny stuff this game?

Um, besides from a bit of an absence at the beginning of day one I've given reads, questioned players, engaged with almost everyone in the game, scumhunted, done every other normal thing someone in the town does. What do you want? This is stupid.

Show and prove are still the same thing and this is pointless.

[DCLXVI]

Then mafia is pointless. Game doesnt have a cop so we should just admit defeat.

I can't prove I'm innocent. It's not possible. So don't ask me to.

Make your case. Then I will refute it. That is how scumhunting is done. You don't just go around saying "hey prove you aren't scum."

[DCLXVI]

@Otolia, is that a counterclaim?

[DCLXVI]

vote:Svenskt Stal

L-1

[DCLXVI]

We just lynched your partner mala

[DCLXVI]

I knew GM was scum Dang it.